I am posting this simply as a warning to those of you with children and small dogs.
Not the least bit interested in debating this one way or another. Please refrain from commenting if you want to argue the point.


That said this morning while I was out at the range my wife called me. She was crying and said that she and Henry(our 15lb maltese/poodle) had just been attacked by a pit bull(cross?) that lives in a condo up the street.
My wife was walking Henry across the street when the pit bull(not on a leash) suddenly ran across the street towards them and went straight for Henry's neck. Before my wife could intervene the dog bit Henry. Moments later my wife somehow grabbed Henry from the attacking dog and got bit herself.

The owner of the pit bull ran up, regained control of her dog and my wife returned to our condo where she promptly called me.

Thank the Good Lord, wife and Henry will both be fine.

I'm almost glad I wasn't at home during the attack as the 20 minute drive back into town from the range gave me enough time to calm down and think things through. I made a couple phone calls....

I don't want to say anything about the post attack for possible legal reasons.


The point of me posting this in the first place is simply a reminder that these types of dogs just can't be trusted.

I've previously visited with pit bull's owner and even petted the dog(Henry was not present) and it appeared to be a happy, friendly dog. Sadly that just is not the case, think Jekyll and Hyde.

If you see a pit bull type dog approaching please protect your child or pet.

Sam

Glad they are fine and yet another reason to always be armed.

I couldn't agree more, glad your wife and dog are gonna be OK.

Damn!

Glad all's well in the long term.

I suggest hamburger and rat poison for the maurader.

Glad the important stuff is ok Sam.

Damn Sam, sorry about your wife and pooch. Hate to see that happen to good folks and pups.

Glad all parties came out of it without anything more serious.

Also, I know you wish you had a been there but it likely wouldn't have helped matters any.


Nail

Sam,

Glad your wife and Henry are ok; it could have easily been alot worse for either of them as you no doubt are aware..

I actually like the bull breeds, but never trust them or any large dog around my Border Terrier..No dog is 100% predictable, and when something goes wrong with these breeds, they have the potential to cause serious damage or death..

Again, glad both your wife and Henry are ok,

Regards,

Peter

Glad your wife and pooch are going to be OK.

carry a hatchet on walks in future.

As a former Pit Bull owner some years back I agree 100%.


Glad to see your pup will be fine. Traumatized I'm sure.

I'd go after the owner for that with no quarter given.
It's just a matter of time when that dog will do worse.

I hope your pooch makes out okay. Sucks for a little feller to get chewed like that.



It could be socially fine with people and a dog fighter (we utilize the PC term "dog aggressive"). Irrelevant, because it wouldn't last.



I take that approach with any animal/person that I don't know well. Any large breed "working" type dog sets off special alarms.

George

Thanks for the kind words fellas.

I really don't have much more to say on the matter.

You guys know what I mean.

Glad your Wife and Pup are ok.

Good move .

George

Scary! Glad they are not seriously hurt.

Glad all are OK & on the mend. I second George, view ALL dogs (& CATS) with caution and never leave yours un-attended or un-controlled.

Also go about armed with at least pepper spray or if nothing else a stout stick.

Glad everyone's alright. Little guy had a close one, looks like. Empathize with you; we've similar problems in this neighborhood. Plenty of nice people and nice dogs, a HOA policy requiring leashes (which admittedly sucks, but in the end is best given everyone's close living proximity), and a few knuckleheads invariably with aggressive, typically larger dogs who let them run free and guard their turf. Takes some of the joy out of going for a long walk with our dogs.

Steve_No funny you should say carry a hatchet and I was sitting thinking boy what a Tomahawk would do st. in the middle of the head. ouch that hurts. Cheers NC

Because of what I do for a living,I come into contact with just about every breed of dog. Pit bull owners are feeding ticking time bombs and should be ashamed of themselves for putting other folks in danger.
I've never,not once jumped into the pit bull fights on here because it's pointless.
I'm glad your pooch is ok. I'd kill that pit bull that attacked him.

Thanks guys.

We are very lucky that only minor injuries occurred.

You just gotta remind the owner that you could use some target practice.

either that or take a [bleep] with you on walks.

Holy mackerel! Glad the pooch is okay.. How bad did wifey get bit?

Glad injuries were minor. Uncontrolled dogs are one of the reasons I decided to never leave the house unarmed. Never plan to be reduced to using strong language against a dog (or others) intent on doing harm. A solid hit from a 10mm ends the problem immediately.

Same sorta' thing's happened around my rural neighborhood Sam,

the offending time bombs usually disappear, defused, as it were.

Glad that wasn't any worse, Sir.

GTC

Sam,
Glad your wife and Henry are ok!

Not the sort of thing one would expect to have happen in Mayberry/Bozeman USA. You just never know.


Johnny, wife just got a couple puncture wounds on the hand.
She was more shook up than anything.

dont Megan know where the guns are? 20 minutes for you to get home? Darla woulda received an "unlawful discharge of a firearm within city limits" ticket before i hit the front door

Our Maltese was female, so not much problem with male dogs when walking. I hope that two phone calls were made to the police and your attorney. Good that all are OK. Just glad you were not home.

Was bad it happened, Was good that the owner was close and could control the dog.
Shame it happened at all.

That should be worth 5 grand anyway. Sue em!

What no pit bull owners coming to their defense. Pointing out how the attack was brought on by the pitt bulls bad upbringing and fact that he never knew his father. GW

Sam, glad your wife wasn't harmed worst them she was and that your pooch is ok. Let us know how things go once to can talk about.

GK

They're too busy with their TSA jobs patting down 83 year old grandmothers.

Ironic, one of our Pekineese was attacked today. She will be spending the night at animal hospital. Not sure whether she was attacked by a dog or wild critter. Whatever it was it must've jumped our fence, 'cause I couldn't find a breach in our fence. I'm thinking big feral cat or raccoon? Never seen any 'coons round here and I thought I'd killed off the wild tomcats.

Sorry to hear this happened, Im glad you're wife and dog are OK. My sister and BIL found a stray pup some years back, ended up being a pit and it was fine till another dog showed up then all it wanted to do was kill.

I love dogs a bunch but IMO the world would be a beter place with out pitbulls.

Don't trust em is sound advice

Glad all is well.

Not a pit but my Dad called yesterday and said they saw a coyote chasing their cat up through the woods. Apparently he was about the size of a pit bull. Guess I'll be on pest control this week.

22 mag, 223 or 410---hmmmmmmm.

Sam,

I applaud your restraint.

Mike

Sam, glad to hear your wife and Henry are alright!

Hope it all works out Sam...

Glad Henry is OK sam.

But....I have to say that I am disappointed that Henry my wolf eating hero let one of them bitch bulls get the best of him.......Henry must be getting mellow in his old age......




Casey

SAM. Check the "Campfire Hoghunt Thread" may be a connection to this unprovoked attack on your dog. GW

You think Les pulled a wicked witch on Henry? Nahhhh, he's too nice.



Pooch is kinda out of it right now. Camped out on the couch with the boss.
Doggy pain meds musta done a number on him.



Thanks again all, pretty sure this deal will work out fine.

Sectional desnsity ballistics. Be prepared.
Never let what you value between you and a bit pull.
Predictable violent canines.

I'm very thankful things weren't worse. Hope wife and pooch heal quickly. Ward

I'm glad that the dog and the wife weren't seriously hurt.

Pit Bulls are bad news.

Glad to hear all is well. Sam, you need to gitcherass back out in the country where you belong. Condo? Wtf?

That sucks Sam, I hope everything turns out for the best!

Glad your dog and especially your wife are as well as could be expected under the circumstances. Any dog, even Henry, could attack something or someone if conditions were right (or wrong), but pits are more likely. They are also tougher than other dogs. They have a thick layer of Muscle/fat/skin that covers wha tmust be a rock hard skull. I have seen these dogs take a full blow from a four cell mag light and still not release. It sometimes took three good honest whacks before they would let go and a spiked choke collar to get them to kennel up. I would help #1 son feed sometimes but I would not feed the pit catch dogs. They are not wired like anything else on this Earth.

They are/were bred for one purpose and they do that one thing very well. It is NOT being a family pet.

Alan

Sammers... Glad to hear it wasn't serious...

Now, when Carmin and I were dating, she had a Pit-Boxer cross male. He was super laid back... One day a truck drove by on the road, and their dog (in the back) barked at him... Adolph got his ass ran over trying to protect his girls, and I later came out and finished him off with a 45... Its in their genetics... Pitties are aggresive breeds... Plain and simple... That pitty was probably still pissed about the last time your poodle barked at it...

Now Rocky, the Lab Collie mutt that Carmin and I had, LOVES to fetch kids and ducks. He's an extremely well adjusted very social dog... BUT, if you've got a half acre back yard full of 7-10 year old girls, he's got to round them all up in one corner of the yard...

I'd had more than one soccer mom call me bitching about tooth marks in tennis shoes... Little [bleep] can't help it... Bunch of kids running around in his yard, and he's got to 'herd'


I don't care how much heat I take, doggy genetics can't be "raised" out...

Sam,
Glad to hear the little lady and the pup are ok. Also glad you had 20 min to think things over. Take care,
Mike

Best wishes to you all, Sam.

oh, and feed that [bleep] pitty a ball of hamburger loaded with rat poison... They're fuggin USELESS breeds, unless you need other dogs and people bit..

I was walking near my MIL's home the other day and had a very large, and fortunately very friendly, dog run across the parking lot towards my wife and me. The owner was standing right there. I did have my LCP in my rear pocket but realized two things very quickly. First: The dog was friendly and would pose no threat. Second: If the dog had not been friendly and had posed a threat, I could not get the little .380 into action fast enough to be of any defensive use at all. It vividly demonstrated to me that a concealed carry weapon must be readily available if it is going to be of any help. Seconds count when seconds are all you are given.

I,too, am glad dog and lady are doing well.

Sam Olson, I hope your wife and dog recover. I don't totally agree with what you said but like NH K9 said, any dog or person we don't know should be watched. I've raised pits for 30 years, I have a little experience. The mace/pepper spray that the mail man here carries is the same as the bear spray sold at Gander Mtn. It's a great deterrent, but it only lasts long enough for a quick get away. If you or someone your care about gets bit by a pit and it locks its jaw, a quick way to get it to unlock is take your thumb or stick and jab the dog at the juncture of the jaw bone and skull. There is a hollow a little below and in front of the ear - if it's jabbed hard it will temporarily paralyze the dogs jaw. I've seen this last anywhere from 10 to 15 seconds up to 2 minutes. It gives you a chance to get the little one away. As far as ballistics go, there is a 22 LR ammo called Quik Shock - the bullet is pre-fragmented into 3 pieces. Very damaging close range.

You are a very big part of the growing pit bull problem.

Bart have you ever come across a pet owner who has either a Cougar or an Ocelot as a pet in your travels. The cougar belonged to a couple at Ponte Vedra Beach in Florida and the Ocelot belonged to Superior Court Judge in Jacksonville, Florida. I came in contact with the cougar when delivering a Lazy boy to their home when I was shipping manager for a large furniture chain and the Ocelot when installing an coaxial TV antenna system in the Judge's home, he had a stuffed one in his den and a live one running the house.

our neighborhood problem dog is a blue heeler......[bleep] owner doesnt do what needs to be done with the dog and i know the SOB is just acting on instinct everytime he has cornered the girls and nipped them....but the stupid owner should not let the damn thing run free.....he has been better at keeping the dog on a short leash since the cops informed him that everyone that filed a complaint has been given the green light to shoot the damn thing inside city limits at the slightest provocation and they wont be ticketing us cause if we dont kill it they will be up here to

Five years ago I was bitten by a large Rottweiler. Not fun. I did go to the emergency room, got stitched up and a tetanus shot. Dog didn't appear to be rabid. Town Chief of Police permanently pacified it with his Glock. I told him he should have done the same to the owner.

Have a guy down here named Peter Carren that keeps several big cats, even has one Cougar he brings to the schools. It is on a VERY STOUT chain hooked to the cage however.

Nope... The strangest pet was a little monkey... He was a mean little bastard and I avoided him like the plague...

Sam I hope your wife and pup are ok. Good on you for taking the high ground, it is a better vantage point!

Don't know if it is still available, but if so, then anyone walking where a dog may be an issue should have a can of "HALT".

It will work, and there may well be something better out there now.
It is just like carrying a gun for defense though, IF you leave it on the counter or shelf in the house, I guarantee it will not work!

The neighbor has a dog that has enough pit bull to have the face of one. It has not attacked any pets or person but she commented the other day about how it attacked and killed every wild critter it could catch . . . may be just a matter of time before the attackee is someone.

Glad your wife and dog are okay Sam.

More pit bulls in Bozeman lately. Seems like most owners never heard of a leash. PITA.

Thanks again folks.

I'm just gonna keep my opinion on the matter to myself for the time being.
Animal control is coming over tomorrow to 'visit' with the dog's owner.
I'll let you guys know what happens.

You can buy these real interesting walking sticks around here for about $30.

She'd probably try to use it on me!

THIS time anyways...glad to hear everybody's fine.

Glad the wife & pooch are going to be ok Sam.

Thankful it wasn't worse.

JM

Sam, glad to hear the Mrs and Henry will be OK.

Glad the wife is ok, and dog to do fine in a few weeks.
I own pits, always have.
That owner is AN IDIOT.
Call the cops report his dumbass.

Sam;
I just tuned in here and am sorry to hear that happened to your wife and pet.

I'm glad they fared as well as they did and hope for a speedy recovery for them both.

Please keep us informed as to any news on the matter.

Dwayne

Most pit bull owners are idiots. The worst ones are the ones that think that they can control this vile breed of dog.
You ever hear about a pug mauling a kid to death?

I hope you get some input on the visit by the animal control officer. I would hazard a guess that the is more than one member on this site who has personal knowledge or experience with bad dogs. You were lucky that your wife and puppy are okay. Hope things go well.

Roundup

As they say "it's not the dogs fault, it's the owners fault". Make sure the owner is held fully accountable. If that had been a child walking down the street.....

I'm really glad to hear your wife and pup were able to get away without being seriously injured.

It just goes to show you never know when something like that will happen. Here's a link from a similar incident in our town where the dog went after a toddler, not a dog....

http://www.ketv.com/news/16710530/detail.html

Just re-read that article and caught this:



Only 3 1/2 hours later.....

Sad thing is, putting a dog down or throwing a reckless owner in jail won't do chit for the little girl that was scalped by that Pit and you'd have to be pretty fast on the draw to prevent it, even if you were packin' a CCW. Scary stuff....

Sam, glad to hear wife and pup are going to be ok. Similar thing happened to my BIL last year. He and wife were out for a walk and pit bull climbed fence and came after them. It crossed the street and when it got to about 10ft he dropped the dog with a single 9mm to the head. Sheriff was called and gave him a pass.
John

Helluva shot!!

Under pressure and with a fast moving target like that, I doubt I could pull that one off....

wow sorry to hear it Sam

as others have added glad it wasn't worse


as an aside you've always been on my list of faves here.

that you have the good sense to keep yer clam shut only makes your stock climb in my book.

there's a time to woof and a time to go in stealth mode.


wishing you guys the best possible outcome whatever that may be.


could be a golden opportunity to get the little woman interested in a CCW class though!

just something sexy bout a woman packin


and sides that way when the temptation of that cute little waitress at the local waterin hole overrides your common sense at least we'll all have the comfort of knowing you passed quickly and cleanly. (grin)


good luck amigo

My two phone calls would have been to the dumazz owner and the sheriff. I am interested in the outcome.

LOL!

Glad to hear everyone is okay. I completely agree w/ your position on pit bulls.

I'm surprised that the most vocal resident pit bull defender hasn't weighed in.

Glad the bite appears minor. My sister-in-law got bit on the hand by a pit bull 6 months ago (she works at county animal control). The resulting infection took $10,000 in med bills to cure. Don't settle anything until you know for sure.

Thanks all.

Would it be wrong for me to fantasize popping that pit bull while the owner watches?

Agrtee 100% only I'd make one additional call to Animal Control, which I'm sure the Sheriff or the Police ill do anyway.

Damn Sam, sorry to hear this, glad your wife and the little one are gonna be okay, as for the other Dog, I think we can make Pegoghi with the bastard, knock his azz out and bring him in June!

Glad everyone is OK. Had similar situation a couple years ago with the people who live next to me and my mini schnauzer Axel. Never thought my schnauzer would ever defend himself, but that day he stood his ground. But, like you said one just never knows with pits.

Glad all are ok.

If there was one breed of dog I'd like to see wiped off the face of the earth, that'd be it.

Had that pit bull belonged to my dad the 'I'm sorry' would have come after he put a bullet in its head.

Sam, it won't be the last time that dog does something like that. Mark my words.

HOWEVER. And I am no fan of pit bulls, they are a plague around here too, and their owners are usually (insert favorite word for lowlife here)....

Anyway, however, aggression between dogs is a little hard to police properly and assign blame. Dogs have their own little world going. Your little poodle might have given the doggie equivelant of "F you" to that pit...

Aggression towards people being a whole other thing of course.

I have a totally goofy, nice, playful, friendly, well-socialized Lab Lucy. A few years ago we took her to a party at a friend's property where she's been a bunch of times and has a doggie friend Coco... at this party Lucy bit the CRAP out of a little yap dog of some sort. Tore it's hide. Nobody saw it happen. I think one of two things happened- a), the yap dog got in Lucy's face as little dogs sometimes do and Lucy said screw that, or (more likely IMHO) the little yap dog zipped in front of her and Lucy thought it was a rabbit or something and just reacted.

She does catch and eat rabbits and so on around here.

Anyway it cost me several hundred dollars in vet bills, and it made us more careful of us with her around small dogs (been fine before and since), but in the end I don't think the fact that she bit a small dog means she is a "bad" or evil dog, and I think we'd all agree that Lab's aren't evil, too.

So, I dunno. No way that pit should have been off a leash, you should indeed get paid for vet bills, and so on, but in the end I think people who have little poodly yap dogs need to realize that those little farts annoy the heck out of other dogs sometimes <g>.

Good luck Sam!

Jeff, I wasn't there during the attack.

According to my wife she saw the pit running around in an open lot about 100 yards away. After seeing this she turns around and starts back towards our condo. Sometime after wife and Henry turn around the pit must have spotted them and began it's pursuit.
The pit attacked from behind, neither my wife or Henry even saw it coming. So no, there wasn't any 'yapping' involved prior to the attack.

It was 100% completely unprovoked.

waiting
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for TRH to show up.

Something exactly like you do there, Jeff the 'Poodly yap dog'

My department has had to kill several pits this year, usually after an attack on someone else's pet. We have about 300K people in our county, but we take care of the non-municipal areas which ranges from farms to suburbs.

What has consistently surprised me is that these people consistently call 911 instead of taking care of the problem themselves. It is totally within state law to destroy a vicious dog attacking humans or animals.

I can't imagine keeping house without a .22 or shotgun handy to the back door to handle life's unpleasant situations.

We used to have packs of dogs in my home county that would pack up and chase deer and go after people and livestock at times.

A .243 through the slats of a Rottweiler will let the anger right out of it...I'm told.

I carry at least one handgun every waking minute of my life but always carry a four foot piece of hickory as a staff when I walk the dogs. More than once I have clobbered a vicious dog biting at my dogs or me.

Before I became an officer, saw an, um, public safety official deliver the Big Chill to a pitbull bitch that had just killed a little poodle. He used a softball bat I kept in my car for a completely illegal self defense tool.

Popped it right on the point of its skull, it went stiff and fell over dead. Call it a CRACK-Flop.

(grin)


I'm guessing Hawkeye is being polite and refraining from defending something that doesn't deserve any defense.


I didn't want to bring this thread back up but the 'yapping' comment irritated me and I wanted to clear that up.

I hate pit bulls for the very reason that these attacks are far too common with them.

I don't blame you Sam, it irritated me too. I just considered the yappy little source and figured it was par for the course. Again, glad your wife and dog are okay.

I like Cold Case's way of dealing with things. He is my kind of cop.

We had a pit bull running loose on our farm a few years back (just across the swamp from one of the county housing projects). My former Group CSM was hunting with me and informed me that the dog (and a few others) scent trailed him to his deer stand early that morning. As we stood and talked after the hunt the dogs appeared about 70 yards down the trail, I had my Marlin .41 MAG levergun in my hands - a 240 grain Winchester Platinum Tip will take the lungs out of a pitbull at 67 yards and leave em all over the trail. He was tough and didn't quit trying to lift himself up until we were 10 yards from him - then he finally gave up the ghost. If I see anymore they get the same treatment. I do not go about the farm or woods without a firearm - those dogs are dangerous to people once they start roaming and packing up.

Halfway feral dogs used to show up out at the farm.

Some of them were okay and didn't raise hell but most of 'em were up to no good. We had no problems taking care of the bad ones. My brother lit one up with my Horse rifle(270 Win). That was a bang flop!

This deal here in Bozeman is another story. I pretty much have to handle this in the 'proper' manner. Hopefully the law works out...


Yep Odessa, a guy has to be careful.

JO,..... Blow me,

GTC

Yup, +1

GTC

My department sent me out after a pit bull that proved to be too much for animal control to handle. They gave me a tranquilizer gun because it was in the city. I found that if you use a double dose, they never wake up.

+1

Sam, sorry I irritated you!!!

Little dogs bug me, no question, but I shouldn't have called yours a yapper <grin>.

It sounded at least a little similar to what happened with Lucy so I just wanted to point out that big dog vs. little dog often ends badly for the little dog, and it can happen even with a "nice" big dog.

Anyway apologies for the irritation, Sam.

A pit bull killed a 3 year old not too far from here a few months ago. The kid's moma had a newborn and crashed out from exhaustion during the middle of the day. The three year old and his 5 year old sister decided to go exploring while moma was asleep. They climbed a neighbor's fence to pet a nice doggy chained up by its doghouse. Of course, it was a pit bull and the little boy didn't live to learn from that mistake.

I just don't see the use in them. I can't. There are just too many of these kinds of stories. Other dogs bite often, maybe more often than pit bulls, but pit bulls kill when they bite.

I'd just be repeating myself, but if you're asking for my comment (calling me out, more accurately), I'm happy to oblige.

It's always sad when a little dog is harmed by a bigger dog, but all sorts of larger breeds of dog attack smaller dogs. My next door neighbor's pack of mutts (and when I say mutts, I mean literally your 57 variety, no Pitbull mixed in) chased and almost killed my Chihuahua when I was a kid. Fortunately, my German Shepherd saw what was happening, dove in, and thrashed all four dogs at once till they let her go. Accidental dog fights happen all the time, and little dogs don't usually fare well in them. But you folks treat all such occasions as an opportunity to vent you're irrational hatred of a particular breed of dog that, according to their nature, is one of the most people friendly and people oriented breeds on the planet. There. Happy now?

Sam, the incident needs reported to local law enforcement. That way there's a record. How many times has a "friendly" pit bull mauled a small animal before going after kids? You only hear of the maulings of kids but many times there were other dogs mauled before. That said, my cousin swears by #5 shot.

I've read the same about Muslims, must be true.

This wasn't accidental, pretty sure the pit knew what he was doing and was totally unprovoked.

The pits might be great people dogs but they obviously aren't good around other dogs they don't know. The simple fact that this pit made a point to run across the street and attack from behind is clear.

I'm not surprised that you remain an ignornant fool regarding this so called great breed of dog.
The fact that Bozeman(and other cities) have tried to ban these dogs really says alot.

If it makes you happy you can get in the last word.
I am done posting on this thread.



Thanks again all for your concern over my wife and Henry.


(Animal control came and cited the owner. The dog is under a 10 day quarantine as it doesn't have an up to date rabies shot.
It will however be returned to the owner as it needs to attack again before anything can be done. That IMO is a terrible law.
I spoke with the dog's owner today on the phone. She made no attempt to apologize whatsoever and wants to keep her dog. That's all I'm gonna say.)

After it made a trip to the taxidermist she could keep it as long as she wanted!

A friend's daughter had a pit. Named it Luv, cute little puppy. Had the best life, no mistreatment and plenty of attention. Daughter left for college and Luv stayed with her parents. Mom and Dad had 2 other dogs both larger and older than Luv. Luv had a habit of wandering off so one day when they had to run some errands, they put all 3 dogs in a rather spacious outdoor kennel. Now all 3 of these dogs have lived together for a little over a year. Mom and Dad came home and the other 2 dogs were dead or dying. Little pitbull came out of the kennel and licked my friends hand like nothing had ever happened, but was covered in blood from the carnage. Dad did what he had to and shot the pit. What if that had been someones kids? Been around a lot of pits, but never one I trusted.

BULL [bleep]!!!!!!
I say that you defending pit bulls is irrational and dangerous to those around you.

Accidental means not arranged.Some dogs are more prone to look for fights than others, and generally have little awareness of size differential, but based solely on my personal experience with the two Pitbulls I've raised from puppies to old age, the characteristic of looking for fights must be partly, at least, encouraged by the owners, since both of my Pitbulls (unrelated to each other, and separated in time) not only didn't look for fights, but had a huge tolerance for abuse from other dogs, and would not actually fight unless actually attacked by other dogs, which happened from time to time (I walked them in rural areas regularly), and the dogs that started it were almost never other Pitbulls (one time it was a Pitbull that was wandering loose). They were typically breeds like Boxers, Rottweilers, and Mastiffs.Wow! That pretty much sums up the kind of person I'm dealing with, so no need for me to read further.

Aggressive dogs just need to be treated with sweetness, but beware of the artificial stuff.
http://petcare.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_to_avoid_xylitol_poisoning_in_dogs

You know I like you, man, but you just don't know what you're talking about on this particular subject. The unfortunate reality is that bad folks tend to be attracted to the breeds of dog most capable of doing harm, and then proceed (whether or not they admit it to their neighbors, friends, or the authorities) to do whatever they can to encourage aggression. Raised by dog lovers, Pitbulls are very friendly dogs, even to a fault. They do tend to want to please their owners, however, and will become whatever type of dog their owners want them to become.

Something similar happen to a woman I worked with..She had a couple of dog runs in her garden..One contained a couple of terriers that had been raised and worked together, and the other a couple cocker spaniel pups.

One day she gets home and finds the Patterdale terrier had killed and partially eaten the other terrier, and had spent the remainder of the day scrapping and scratching at the divider trying to get at the pups next door..

The pups had been bought with a view to use them as gun dogs, but they never recovered from their ordeal and could not stand to be around other dogs.

The two terriers were working dogs (used to dig & kill foxes) but were friendly with people (her kids had spoilt them rotton) and were generally ok with other dogs (as well as terriers can be!)

The incident came totally out of the blue, and the only thing she can think that provoked it was the arrival of the young pups, but even they had been around a few weeks and the terriers got on ok with them when they were walked ect..

He brother took the Patterdale for a long walk with a shovel and a .22LR, so it never had the chance to repeat the crime..I only mention as it shows how even supposedly friendly dogs can act totally out of character...

Regards,

Peter

Got to throw the bullschitt flag there fella!

yall had to go poking a stick at em until you woke him up didn't you.

What do you think the purpose of the thread was? If I don't show up, these guys get depressed.

Not true. Some dogs, size/breed is not an issue, are simply dog fighters. My old theory was socialization based, but I've seen enough dogs that weren't socialized "properly" that weren't dog fighters as well as enough that received the proper socilization that were to nullify it in my mind.

George

Not at all, they own you and you just proved it.

Thanks for posting this SamOlson, people will never understand until they or someone they love are attacked. I was attacked by a pit one night walking home from a friends house. I lived in nevada and out in the middle of BFE. These dogs are vicious and can't be trusted just as you said. Needless to say, I'm a little mean myself and the dog didn't survive. I got 13 stitches in my hand that he locked onto (his breeds downfall) and the other hand took him out. Everytime I hit him, I felt bones breaking and hoped it wasn't my hand. Now I am very leary about them and hope nothing like this ever happens to one of my kids or wife becuase I'd probably go to jail over it.

It (not talking about fighting prowess, which is a different issue from being dog-aggressive) must not be strongly associated with the Pitbull breed, then, because I can remember many occasions when other dogs were doing everything they could to pick a fight, and my dogs just kept walking. It took a real sinking bite to get them to fighting.

My current pitbull comes with me three or four times a year to visit my folks and their two pocket-size Maltese dogs. Their male Maltese aggressively attacks my dog on a regular basis (over territoriality and jealousy), but is just not strong enough to do any real harm. My dog just looks amused at him, like he thinks it's funny (My dog's ten and a half, and this has been going on for about that long, so save your "It's just a matter of time" retort). Even a twenty pound dog once aggressively attacked him, and all he did was body slam him and hold him down for a few seconds till his owner could come over and grab him.

Now, if a Boxer, Rottie, or Mastiff, or any kind of substantial dog, attacked one of my Pitbulls, all bets were off and the fight was on. But, if there was no one there to help me, the other dog almost always decided on his own (within just a few short seconds) that fighting wasn't a good idea, at which point I never had trouble getting either of my Pitbulls to let go and allow it to run off. Admittedly, they would have continued fighting till the other dog was dead had I not been there. That is part of the breed, and goes back to the trait of gameness developed for the purpose of prize fighting, bull fighting and/or management, and boar hunting.

George,

I remember as kid we had a Wired Hair Fox Terrier, which had been brought up and reared properly and was generally ok with adults, was great with kids, but was a swine with other dogs, cats or any other animal. It was a bitch too, but was hard as nails..She was the perfect dog if it was in arms reach, but if she thought she could get away with, she'd be off and trying to kill something...She'd never been worked and was from "show" lines so should have been less gassy than a "working" line, but evidently she never knew that!

My father hated it with a passion, but mom doted on it so it had several stays of exercution!

At the end of the day dogs are dogs, and they don't always follow all the rules...

Regards,

Peter

Sorry to hear this news. You need to call animal control or the police (or sheriff's deaprtment)and let them know of this situation. Tomorrow it might be a child who is attacked.

IME, large breed dogs simply don't care about smaller dogs. They're no threat to their position. My current K9 is, let's say, less than friendly with other large-breed dogs. In his mind he's king schit in turd pond and nobody has been able to knock him off the throne yet (muzzle walks, etc.). One of the ways I can tell that he's DEEP into a track is if he tracks by another large dog firing up on him.

Smaller dogs have tried to dog fight him on the street during tracks, etc. He simply bats them with a paw and goes on with life. If another large-breed tried that.....different story.

He was properly socialized and, obviously, never received any positive reinforcement for showing any type of aggression towards other dogs. It's just part of who he is.

George

Thank goodness for small favors! ButI know you are a peeker!

That, my friend, is as true as it gets. If the damn things followed all the rules my job would have no mystique .

George

ive got no general problem with pits, they do have some legitimate uses but i dont think they are a very good family pet.....i can see them being used as a hunting dog for boars and the like and my brother used one quite successfully for dealing with pissy bulls that he really didnt want to put a bullet into....

that said i think the owners of dogs in general should be held more accountable, especially those that allow or do not attempt to stop their dogs from running wild.....be they pits or ankle biters....

Agree 100%.

Took the bait too didn't ya?

I know exactly what I'm talking about. There are two breeds of dogs that have consistently been a problem to guys in the utility business. Pit bulls and Chows... I've seen the statistics on accidents involving dogs and the vast majority of unprovoked attacks have been pit bulls and pit bull crosses.
I've never been attacked by,or ever heard about anyone ever being attacked by a pug...
Do you think that the lack of pug attacks are because of breeding or ownership?

How would you even know that you'd been attacked by a Pug? Would there be any teeth marks to give you a clue?

Will you answer this question please?
Do you think that the lack of pug attacks are because of breeding or ownership?

Nope. IMO, you're defense of Pits is pathological.....but hey, at least you'll get some attention!!

Not sure anyone would bother reporting a Pug attack if one occurred, so hard to answer your question. That said, I don't think it's a particularly popular breed among gang bangers and the like.

So by your definition, the owner in this story wanted a dog that would slip it's leash to run across the street and rip off a baby's scalp??



You'd have to be mentally ill to believe that.....

I hate pit bull dogs and will terminate any others that come on my property as I have done in the past. Period. I have my reasons. I despise anybody that would own one and not have it under complete control at all times. Even with the best temperment, they all come with the equipment to devastate.

And these punkazz kids that get them to boost their fragile egos need to grow a set so they don't feel the need for a status symbol.

From a couple of days ago. You can google this up every week.

Sorry Hawk, I love the breed and they make a heck of a catch dog on the ranch but other than that there are to many instances with Pit's to trust them.

http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/pit-16641-apple-valley.html

Boy dies after pit bull attack
Comments 157 | Recommend 8
January 11, 2010 9:55 AM
FROM STAFF REPORTS

APPLE VALLEY � A 3-year-old boy who was attacked by his family�s pit bull Saturday died of his injuries, authorities said.
San Bernardino County Coroner David McCarthy said Sunday that Omar Martinez was unresponsive when rescuers arrived and he was pronounced dead at St. Mary Medical Center on Saturday.

The pit bull attacked the toddler shortly before 3 p.m. Saturday in the 23500 block of Goshute Avenue, northeast of Central Road and Highway 18.

When firefighters arrived on scene, the dog, covered in blood, came out and started to attack firefighters. A San Bernardino County Sheriff�s deputy shot and killed the dog.

Paramedics administered CPR at the home and enroute to St. Mary Medical Center.

To subscribe to the Daily Press in print or online, call (760) 241-7755 or click here.

To read pit bull related stories, click on the headlines below:

Pit bull mauls toddler

Pit bulls make up more than two-thirds of the dogs at local shelter

Pregnant woman attacked by pit bull

Pit bulls banned from homes at Marine base

Teens arrested in dog fighting bust

Killer dogs euthanized after week-long rampage

Owners of dogs in fatal Yermo mauling to remain in jail

Pitbull attacks 15-year-old in Victorville


Dog owners confused about attack

Woman mauled to death by dogs on Christmas Day

Pit bull attack scars family

Stats in isolation are of little use. When the media has pegged a particular breed as the latest devil dog, not a single incident escapes nationwide coverage or statistical compilation. Add to that the fact that most of these dogs, since regular folks first heard of the breed (the early 1980s) and its ranking as number one fighting dog, are in dysfunctional settings, and you have your explanation. Prior to the convergence of these unfortunate circumstances, not only did you not see such headlines (Back then the Doberman was the devil dog darling of the news media), but you probably never knew the breed existed. Get rid of Pitbulls tomorrow and within a couple of years it will be Spanish Alano (or some other similarly capable breed) that becomes the devil dog in the minds of gullible consumers of the popular news media.

Glad Sam's wife & dog will be okay.

Never have met a vicious pit, but I don't really seek them out, either. My sister did spend two days in the hospital about 15 years ago, courtesy of a Black Lab running loose in her neighborhood. She was bitten on the arm, and it got infected. The owners wised up and put the dog down.

I did get charged by a Cocker Spaniel in my front yard once. His owner's kids let him out, and for no reason he makes a beeline three houses down to attack me, even though my German Shepherd was right there. She took care of the problem quite efficiently. I suspect if he ever went after a kid, it wouldn't have been instant death, obviously, but a couple bites that get infected can be bad news.

The first thing that gets me is, dogs running loose are a major problem, regardless of breed, or how you feel about them.

Absolutely. Glad to see there are still a few non-hysterics among us here at the Fire.

The Alano of Spain. Another ancient working breed developed for bull management and boar hunting.

Pit bulls are banned in Ontario since 2006.

The legislation prevents people from acquiring a number of breeds of dogs classified as pit bulls, and requires those who already own the dogs to neuter and muzzle their animals.

They tried that in Dade County, Florida too. Recently, however, the Court of Appeals struck it down as unconstitutional, ruling that laws relating to aggressive dogs must relate to a particular dog's actual behavioral history, and may not specify an entire breed.

Again Sam, Sorry your dog and your wife got attacked, nothing about this post is meant in any way to take away from that, but in some regards I agree with Hawkeye and in some I don't.

I had a little wiener dog killed when I was a kid by two Healers that lived up the road, I got bit too trying to bail in and save my dog in front of our garage in our driveway. It was a bad deal and it took my dog Oscar (as in Meyer) three days to die at the vet clinic.

Recently my step-son gave away a nice Great Dane to a good home on a farm because he needed to move and couldn't move with that horse into any place he could find. That dog was six years old and none of us ever saw a bit of mean in it, around kids or other dogs, but it bit one of the neighbor kids (who allegedly teased this dog and others and threw rocks too I hear) near it's new farm house and the GD had to be put down too.

I think any breed can have that potential, or not.

Where Hawkeye and I part ways, is I wouldn't recommend a Pit, Boxer, Mastiff, Chow, Dobe, Rott, Lab, Chessie, Great Dane, or any other large breed at all to most people. As a landlord, and a guy that knows several other people with rentals, and other pet owners, I really have come to the conclusion that most people who already have dogs, shouldn't even own a dog at all -- and if they do they should start with a Pug, or a Toy Poodle, a Cocker, or something small enough that if it gets nippy, well somebody just gets nipped.

Once they own the little bugger, it should be obedience trained and trained well -- if they have the time and the ability and the desire to teach that dog well, or better yet half a dozen of them, then they should move on up the ladder to larger and stronger dogs. I don't imagine that more than about five percent of people would ever get a bigger dog if they had to pass this test. Most of them are just too lazy IMO and the rest are just too dumb. I'm amazed at how many dog owners there are that aren't even smart enough to house break a dog. It does seem that a large percent of the dumb bastids are drawn to Pits for some reason (Hawkeye is not in this group -- Mike Vick is).

I think most of us on this forum that deal with dogs, may have some of those skills and ambitions -- what I see in the real world, those skills are lacking, my step-son included. The dog breed I would least recommend for these people is a Pit, not because I think that it's more likely to bite than any of the other large dogs, but because there is no doubt a prejudice against that breed, and I can't see that helping with a neighbor, lawyer, or judge, when your poorly trained dog does bite someone, and bites them harder than most any other kind of dog could, or even escapes from the yard for that matter.

I think Hawkeye probably does have a good Pit, I've had a few too, as well as Dobes, and lots of other large breeds, but I traveled around when I was a kid showing dogs with my mother in obedience shows too. Hawkeye's done things like this too IIRC. I also have a good buddy who is traveling as I type this to a bird dog hunting and pointing competition and has been doing really well for the last five or more years, like at a national level, in this sport.

To those of us that do know how to handle a dog and train it right, I see Pits as a good breed to work with too -- I've seen exceptionally smart and well trained Pits at dog shows that I'm sure won't be biting anybody. Those aren't the ones from the dog fights or the hood though.

I haven't owned a Pit for nearly 20 years now, I doubt that I'll be getting another one ever. I used to have a need when I was killing coons and coyotes with them (and Greyhounds) as fast as I could, but frankly I don't have the ambition, or time, to spend that many hours with a dog to train it that well anymore, and I live in town now. Whether it's to chase coyotes, win dog shows, or point pheasants, it is a lot of work and a lot of hours to train a dog right. That is 100% required for all the big dogs above, and practiced by a very small minority of dog owners. It's too bad, but I say don't get a Pit either, unless you've got the time to do it right. But remember, if that dog does go off and bite someone, It's your butt on the line -- You done it wrong.

I think that guy who owned the Pit that attacked Henry should have his dog put down, get sued, and maybe even be prevented from ever owning another large dog, at least until he can pass the well trained poodle test. I can't blame a dog for not being trained and allowed to run free in town -- that's on the owner. Too bad it's too late to train that dog now, that's on the dog. I can't see outlawing any breeds as being any help in this matter though -- Dogs are dogs, big ones can bite hard, and none of them ever learn a damn thing unless there is somebody with the time and know how to teach them. These are the dogs you read about in the papers. This is what got Henry and your wife.

+1

At one time I had two Rottweilers and a German Shepherd. The wife at the time was really enthused with obedience training, so we took great care with socialization and obedience training. We had no problems with any of the three. Mauser, the male Rott, once had a small boy jump onto his back, before the boy's father or I could stop him. The dog thought it was great fun, much to my relief!

Mau loved to play with any kind of ball. One day a teenager happened by and offered to throw the dog a football. I cautioned him that the Rott would quickly chew it, and the kid said, "it's okay, it's leather" and tossed him the football. It took Mauser about five seconds to rip a whole panel halfway off the ball. Cool animals, but the power behind the funny clown face is a real responsibility you have to accept.

I'm single now, and while I've always liked cats I would again like to have a big dog or two. I have the yard for it, but maybe not the time to raise it the right way, and that gives me pause...

I regularly get attacked by the wife's cockapug.


I'm grateful the little bastid has teeth or I wouldn't know whether I was being gobbled by mouth or azzhole.

Nope. That's my view as well, as I've said in many of the threads of this sort over the years. I've personally seen what happens when incompetents buy a puppy of a breed they are ill equipped to raise right or handle. A good friend of mine was so impressed with my Doberman, and how perfectly under control he was (on or off leash), and how friendly and reliable he was, that before even discussing it with me, he went out and bought a puppy Doberman for his family. By the time that dog was six months old, it was snarling at him and his family, and ruling the house. When it bit him for trying to gain control, he had it put down. That was tragic, and I never suggest a serious breed as someone's first dog. Almost always turns out badly.

Bwhahaha

This is why I have HOUSE cats!

All your cats are outdoor cats, Terry?

I feel for ya Sam, that's a bad deal.

My little brother who still lives at home has a pit, dog's name is Charlie. Charlie got his balls cut off yesterday so I was pretty happy about that. Bad news is Charlie survived the procedure.

I don't pull no punches on the topic of Charlie�s existence. My little brother knows that I�m on edge & waiting for a chance to kill his dog 24-7 when we are back home visiting with my wife & kids along.

My dad knows it too & it wouldn�t bother him one bit to see that dog killed.

My little brother is the only one that truly believes the dog is not capable of the jekyll & hyde show that the rest of the world seems to understand.

For some people it takes seeing your sister, your father, your nephew or brother�s face hanging off their skull like a fleshy pancake to understand & believe.

See I don�t need to see that first hand.

The stories you read every day are enough for me. I don�t care how or why, I just know it�s true. These stories aren�t fictional bigfoot sighting stories, these are real stories, terrible stories.

Sometimes people get the idea that I hate wolves.

I don�t hate wolves, I seriously dislike the protection status that the wolf lives under and I think it�s time for some reasonable management plans to be implemented, but no I don�t hate wolves.

But I do hate pitbulls.

Sam,

Glad to hear your wife, and dog will be OK. My wife and I had a similar experience a couple years ago. We were walking our dog, when a pit in a yard broke his chain, and came charging down the street from about 100yds, obviously zeroed in on our Aussie. I got in front of my wife and dog, and when the pit was in range of my boots, I kicked that sucker as hard as I could. It weren't hard enough! He bounced off and immediately latches on to our Luke's throat. By this time, they were in the ditch and I felt it was now safe to employ the J-frame that was in my pocket(I was afraid of a ricochet out on the hard road, which is why I went with the boot initially). Just as I line up to but a slug in the pit, some knucklehead comes running up, and parks himself immediately opposite the dog from me. I put the gun away, and proceed to beat and wrestle the pit bull off my dog, getting bit in the thumb in the process. Rush our dog to the vet, where he gets sewn up, and is OK. The dog owners paid for the doc and vet bill. I called Animal Control to demand that damn pit bull be put down pronto. Those useless f8&#s say no can do, as he would have to seriously injure a person, for that to happen. As it turns out, this nut job dog was adopted from Animal Control! The pit bull owners had toddlers in the house, and I let them know they were friggin' nuts to have a dog like that, particularly with those kids. If it weren't for the fact I would be suspect #1, and likely be in big trouble, I'd of wasted that dog, the first time I saw it again. Hopefully it dies before one of those kids get attacked. People should have to pass an IQ test, before being allowed to breed.

Glad you're all OK,

Jeff

The word "understand" implies there's some truth to this urban legend. It's a very familiar urban legend, of course, except the breed of dog switches every couple of generations. When I was growing up, it was precisely this type of language with which people (who had no real personal experience with the breed) discussed the Doberman Pinscher. "I don't care how friendly your dog seems, Dobermans eventually snap and turn on ya. It's their brain's, ya see. Their skulls are too small, and eventually their brains get too big and they suddenly go crazy."

My dad relates to me that back in the 1930s and 1940s it was the Boxer that the news papers liked to get people whipped up about with stories of them suddenly going crazy and locking their jaws on someone for no reason. Can Dobermans, Boxers, and Pitbulls be hell on wheel? Yep. They're extremely capable breeds, and when they go bad they go bad in a big way, but as to the hysteria, that's all hype designed to sell air time and news papers.

The regular folks who actually own these breeds, and know how to handle large capable dogs, don't agree with the hysteria. If you guys were more logical (and less hysterical) in your approach, that fact would tell you something.

TRH,

I see no reason for us to get drawn into this once more. You know how I feel about pits and I know how you feel about pits. so I am walking away. tom

You must of just misunderstood my stance once when I suggested that a pit was a poor choice for most people, or something like that, then.

Ontario has it right.

And the Marine Corps.

Peopel should be aware that regardless of the breed, a dogs personality is not a constant either, and often changes with age and ill health.

My Border is quite elderly now, and is mostly blind and deaf. Before the onset of these problems, he loved kids and the attention they gave him, but now they are just "too much" for him, and you can tell he doesn't like to be pestered and does his best to remove himself from the situation.

Its easy to see how if he couldn't get away from an unsupervised child, how he might end up snapping at them; and while he's old he still has a full set of teeth and could cause a lot of damage to a toddler.

Sadly a lot of people never consider what might happen in a sitution, and whether a child ends up being biten or leaves a gate open and the dog gets out and gets run over, the root cause is usually the owners lack of responsibility..

Miscommunication is not uncommon.

I agree with all you've stated here.

Here's my nephew, his wife, and their two very friendly Pitbulls. He learned to love the breed by his constant contact with mine since he was a toddler.



I've not only had experience with my own Pitbulls, but with countless others raised by normal folks, and have literally never seen a mean or unpredictable one in that context.

Here he is as a kid with one of my Pitbulls. She was an older dog in this shot, so he had been quite close with her since he was a very small kid.

Another pic of a sweet and often misunderstood pet. I'm sure Roy Horn was quite the advocate for his tigers right up to the day when he got mauled!!

Can you find any videos of kids being killed by a pug or weenie dog?

How often does a pitbull kill somebody and the owner NOT say he can't understand it?

- Tom

I don't know why I opened this thread...it just pisses me off. The pics you guys are putting up with the kids and pits...just to show how nice the dogs are, are only fooling yourselves.

The 4 that my sisters family have owned are all dead now. any that comes on my property will join them.

Thats kinda a stupid argument.

Try finding news reports about kids being mauled/killed by dogs like Rottie's or GSD and they will be out there.

*Any* of the large and many of the medium/smaller breeds, have the potential to seriously damage or kill a child, depending on the circumstances and it does happen.

A few years back in was Dob's and Rottie's that were filling the headlines over, then GSD's, these days its the various pit breeds such as Staffs, and "pitbulls"...Ironically Pitbulls are banned over here, but it doesn't spot people breeding an approximation of them though..The reality is that the dogs are more accurately boxer x staffs x Heinz 57, but they are still labled "pitbulls"...

Regards,

Peter

All three of my cats stay in the house 100% of the time, never go outside.

My daughter has a couple of barn cats but they stick to the place, have never seen them even in the front yard.

That first story from Joliet, IL That little girl lives in one of the "baddest" neighborhoods in town, lots of gang bangers and drug dealers there.

Exactly, Dave. Nice examples of what I said earlier, i.e., not a single case of a bite by a Pitbull escapes nationwide wall to wall coverage. Also, where were all these Pitbull attacks before regular folks ever heard of the breed, say before 1975?

The Pitbull is the number one most populous breed of dog in the United States today, and not by a little. By a lot. Switch that situation with, say, Boxers, and put them in the same exact environments as Pitbulls are currently to be found, and the stats would be indistinguishable.

I own and have owned Boxers, I don't believe they carry the same potential for attacking humans as the Pit breed does.

Boxers are a playful breed of dog that tolerates other animals relatively well.

JM.

Very good points, especially the last one. In compiling stats, all other breeds are only counted if they are clearly a pure bred. For Pitbulls, not only are pure dogs counted in those bite stats, but also all dogs with any admixture of Pitbull, or even those that look like they might have some admixture of Pitbull (often it's a Boxer mix). That's a huge funnel with which to gather damaging stats for the breed with which to sell news stories about the latest devil dog.

I'll have to challenge that. I love Boxers too, by the way, but my Pitbull has literally never started a fight in his entire life (nor did my previous Pitbull), but he has been attacked several times by Boxers, and for no reason. He was just playing fetch with me at the park. One time one of those Boxers bit my hand when I tried to pry his jaws off of my dog's face. I had two bloody holes to prove it. I got the owners number and made sure to get confirmation that his Boxer was up on his rabies shots.

Did you know that tiger was a magician too?


























































































He turned a fruit into a vegetable with one bite.

John,

That is my perception of boxers as well, but a woman I work has a male that is a real bast**d at times. Her boyfirend took it in at about the age of 3 from a home where he suspects it had been abused.. The dog is good with the boyfriend, so-so with woman I know, but absolutely can't be trusted with anybody else especially kids. Its bitten family members and will "go for" anybody who comes to the house or approaches the guys vehicle. The dog had the snip about 8 months ago, and while it it has quietened him down considerably, its still not safe around children.

The couple concerned are normal, hard working folks, who had a boxer previously and got this one on the strength of their previous good experience with the breed. If it had been my dog, it would have been put down, but they are bent on trying to rehabilitate it...

I also know of another instance of two very human friendly boxers badly mauling a cow due to poor supervision by a supposed dog trainer...

So like I said there are no hard and fast rules with dogs, and any breed that has the capability and strength needs to be treated with caution and respect...

Regards,

Peter

I dunno folks, some of these little dawgs look pretty dangerous to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhh0MUi4_cM&feature=related

FROM 2005!!

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...120/Re_Another_Pitbull_Attack#Post629120

I was new to the forum and backed down mainly because I was embarrassed at how quickly I lost my temper. I am a little more comfortable with myself these days and ask no one for forgiveness about the way I feel on this subject!!

Sam, the exact same thing happened to my wife and our precious black lab in 2000! If I get rolling on this, I will probably be asked to leave the forum. The pitbull is a ni**** dog!!! PERIOD!!! And ni***** don't have to be black!!

Wow! Well, at least you're up front in your racism. I give you that much.

That's hilarious!

Any animal that has been abused can have issues regardless of breed.

I believe 3 things about Pit Bulls.

1. If they do attack, the damage will be more signficant than with many other breeds of dogs. They tend to have more of a kill mentality when they attack than other breeds do.

2. They are more aggressive towards people and other animals than most breeds.

3. They can be good pets when owned by responsible people, but more caution is required with this breed around other animals and people.

That Border looks nearly identical to mine when he was a younger dog!

The bred is generally very good with people and other dogs, but is often "questionable" with anything else in fur!

They were originally bred to kill foxes and other vermin up around the Scottish borders and were working dogs through and through. They were often kennelled with the Fox Hound pack they were part of, hence why "dog agrgression" was soon weeded out of the breed.

15 years ago were not so common here in the UK but now due to appearing on various TV shows, they are deservedly quite popular again...

You know what, I have become resolved to embrace it! I accept who I am and call it like I see it!

I completely agree with 1 and 3, and while I'm not so sure about 2 as I have seen apparently good ones, but because of 1, I would simply not trust them or any similar breed...

John, you're one of my favorite contributors here, so I want to be careful to keep my reply friendly, but you couldn't be more wrong on most of the above (number three I have no problem with, as there is no such thing as too much care exercised regarding any of the capable breeds). A Boxer is simply a German Pitbull. It has nearly the identical development history and capabilities (not to mention personality).

Next, Pitbulls are by their nature absurdly friendly towards people, and need to be raised in very bad environments to deviate from this pattern. In this respect, they are indistinguishable from Boxers. My dog literally wags his tail if someone so much as slows their car down while driving down the street in front of my home because he's hoping someone's going to come visit.

In America, you have a right to be a racist, as far as I'm concerned. Don't believe in thought police.

Well Pete, I don't know about the old lady and really don't want to know but I don't think Cameron Diaz sports much fur. I'd volunteer to find out first hand though. Hell, I'd even look at the old lady if I had to in order to get a look at Cameron...

Gonzales: There is one question, Inspector Callahan: Why do they call you "Dirty Harry"?
De Georgio: Ah that's one thing about our Harry, doesn't play any favorites! Harry hates everybody: Limeys, Micks, Hebes, Fat Dagos, [bleep], Honkies, Chinks, you name it.
Gonzales: How does he feel about Mexicans?
De Georgio: Ask him.
Harry Callahan: Especially Spics.

bwaaaaahaaaaahaaaa "Chi nks" got bleeped but "[bleep]" didn't. lmmfao!

Amazing!

I for one can speak from first hand personal experience about a pit bulls attack. Unlike other breeds once it began it never did stop, until physically forced to do so.

They are not like other dogs which I have had to "deal" with on more occasions than I could remember here. Unlike Pete's collie, which might snap at a kid, but it isn't going to "scalp" it like a pit will.

No, the dog was not a gang banger's, nor did it come from a "bad neighborhood' it wasn't provoked, or have abusive owners.
They said what we always hear after a pit attack "I just don't understand it, he has never done anything like this before".

Ontario has it right!
The Marines too.

You want a big dog, get a lab. It will chase the neighbor's cat and defend everyone in your family.

The worst it will do to your neighbors is lick them to death, unless they try to break into your house, then it will destroy them.

If your refering to my dog, its a Border Terrier, not a Border Collie...The Border Terrier, like I said was bred to kill foxes and to a lesser extent badgers, while working underground earths. While their bite is no where near as hard as a pit, staffy or boxer, like many of the smaller terriers, the bite is beyond proportion to their size and they do on occasion bite children quite severly.

Unlike some of pit breeds that put in one good solid bite and hang on, the smaller terriers will often put in multiple bites and then start "ragging" and if it happens to be a small child being attacked, it can potentially be vey serious..

This is why although I am very much a doggy person, I never trust any dog 100% around children 100% of the time..

No.

The most frightened *I've* ever been of a dog was a large, male Lab. I was unarmed and that thing could have really hurt me and was giving every indication it was going to. They can be very intense dogs.

And your "defend the family" comment is exactly what gets dogs into trouble. Hell, MY lab Lucy thought she needed to "defend the family" against some new people who bought a property down the road! Scared the crap out of them, kids and all, when they walked down to our end of the road.

I'm not pro-Pit Bull; I don't know enough about them. I tend to think that the truth is somewhere closer to what TRH is saying than to the media hype.

What I DO know is that large dogs can be dangerous, especially to small dogs (remember what this thread started as) and I know this because I have a Lab who about killed a small dog! And, I had a Husky/Lab mix that turned out to be a terrible country dog when we bought this land almost 20 years ago. She killed livestock and was a roamer. I loved that dog, but I put her down with my own two hands.

The deadliest dogs
Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author's observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.

According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states:

If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.

Clifton's opinions are as interesting as his statistics. For example, he says, "Pit bulls and Rottweilers are accordingly dogs who not only must be handled with special precautions, but also must be regulated with special requirements appropriate to the risk they may pose to the public and other animals, if they are to be kept at all."

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf

Where do pugs and weenie dogs fall on that list?

bet that TRH will dispute the Clifton study.

Nah. There's nothing in that study that I haven't already addressed. Just reread all my previous posts. If you guys want to believe the conclusions of know-nothing statisticians with an agenda over people with real firsthand experience for 22 years, you go on ahead and do so.

That surprises me, everything I see and read lists labs as the first most populous and bulldogs at 5th at best...

Indoor cats seem to be more mellow and friendlier, IME.

As much as I love dogs, you couldn't pay me to own a pit...

ETA...OldCenterChurch got it right!!!!

You're probably looking at lists produced by the AKC. The American (Pit) Bull Terrier is not an AKC breed, so wouldn't appear on one of their lists (they register a small percentage of the total "Pitbull" population under the two names American Staffordshire Terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier). The most conservative estimates are that there are about ten million American (Pit) Bull Terriers (APBT) in the United States, but since the vast majority are not registered, this number likely represents a drop in the bucket compared to the actual number.

Not that I want you to have one, but you don't know what you're missing. Very sweet animals. Real joy for life, and have more of a natural affection for human beings than any other breed I've ever had experience with.

Tick-tock, tick-tock...

Are you serious? Dude... Everybody on the planet knows pit bulls are a ticking time bomb except you... But wait...There's more.... You know something that everyone else just doesn't get....
If you would have bailed on this thread early or would have ignored it all together... Things would have been different... You are nuts...

How old are you, Bart? Seriously.

Bart is walking proof that wisdom doesn't come with being old.

http://www.akc.org/reg/dogreg_stats.cfm

I would have thought beagles to be higher on the list.

Well, not everyone on the planet thinks Pit Bulls are "ticking time bombs" I have to agree with the Hawkeye on this one. Their interactions with humans are quite on the positive side. I have dealt with quite a few Pitts, and to the largest extent, they were very pleasant dogs to work with, and I can't say that for several other breeds on the "dangerous dog list". I am very sorry for Sam's wife and their dog..I'm sure her experience was terrifying to say the least.

Having said that, I do believe that quite a few Pits do have problems with dog on dog aggression..like they have a screw loose and act almost psychotic. Sam's wife got caught up in that aggression..and was bitten. It is not uncommon for people to get bitten while breaking up dog fights. My guess is that Sam's wife would not have been attacked had she walked across the street alone? This in no way condones the actions of the dog.

I don't have a Pit Bull, but I think, in general, they are great dogs. These are very tough dogs..well muscled, thick skin and necks..powerful jaws..probably the epitome of the canines. I think they can be trusted with people as much as any other dog, but I don't trust them with other dogs. So, we have a broken trust, and that's not a good thing.

As much as the owners of these dogs love them, they have to understand their responsibilities if they want to keep them. They must have complete control of them when interacting with the public. To me this means a well fitted collar with a choke collar behind, or a harness..

So, that is my love/hate relationship..and I leave you with this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL1trl1FMUw

I had a room mate whos daughter learned to walk holding herself up on my pits ears and there was never an issue. I have never had an issue with any of mine. Would I have another one? No but not for the reasons I have seen here, I just can't or won't put up with the hassles of owning one ie the laws agaist them, the way people freak out when they see them and the problems even renting a place when they find out what kind of dog you have. I have seen some well raise ones that were other animal aggressive, but I have a lab/grayhound mix that will go crazy if another dog (other than my wifes) comes near the house.

And Jeff...You are proof that retards can vote and type...

I'm feelin' the love..

Almost time for a "group hug"


Ingwe

Is that it?
Ask me my age?
You should have stayed out of this....

Sam,

Very sorry to hear about this incident. I hope that both Henry and your wife recover quickly from their wounds. I'm sure that their emotional wounds won't easily be healed, if ever. Such useless and criminal incidents take more of a toll than most may think. And as for how you handled this occurance, my hats off to you. You're a better man than I (re: smarter).

I've read a few posts responding to your IP and it made me reflect a bit on how differently we can all feel about such things. While I'm firmly in the any dog can exhibit such behavior camp, I'm just as firmly embedded in the something should be done to minimize such occurances in regards to dogs which continually terrorize, maim and kill people. And IMHO.....statisticians punching #'s, attaining and presenting results are much more likely to be objective than those more emotionally involved. That would seem to make sense to me, anyway. What would they have to gain by fabricating or lying about a specific breed and their involvement in such attacks as opposed to someone emotionally tied in for their own reasons......?

I'd venture a guess that many here (if not most), believe that we, as a nation under siege and attack from several other known countries, should be able to greatly enhance and enforce security and other restrictions concerning the crossing of borders into the US, be it by air, land or sea........better known as "profiling". Assuming that I'm correct in the premise that many of us are supportive of such a change, I can't understand why there are those that can't fathom the need to do the same with specific breeds of dogs?

The recent push and desire by many of us to establish profiling as another form of security is based on trying to further secure the safety and well being of our citizens. We know that certain people (breeds, for this purpose) from certain areas are MUCH more apt to do us harm given the opportunity. And as has been the case 100% of the time, those that survived such attempts have vowed to attempt the same carnage if given the opportunity again. How many cases of people being maimed or killed by the #1, #2 or #3 breeds involved in such incidents were first time offenders? From articles that I've read, not many.

I believe that there will come a time when certain breeds of dogs will be illegal to own except by those who need to use them for security/government reasons. I look forward to that time and I say this as a lifelong dog owner. Until that time however, it would seem reasonable to require owners of the biggest (statistically speaking) offenders to carry insurance policies that take into consideration these dogs capabilities and the owners steadfastness to overlook them. I believe that some states and/or insurance companies already do this or perhaps have tried to do this, if not, they should and I expect that it's only a matter of time, albeit, after a few more maimings and deaths.

As to where to draw the line and which breeds should be scrutinized the most......those breeds that have obviously shown the most propensity for such attacks and those that have caused the most devastation to people as well as other pets. I would assume that any state, city or county council would likely defer to and eventually choose to use a statiticians results rather than an emotional owner's pleas in regards to one of those breeds being targeted.

We classify sex offenders as Level 1,2 or 3's. We do this to try to keep to public as safe as possible and more informed. We currently only somewhat profile travelers attempting to enter our country and I expect that full-on profiling will necessarily become a larger and more important piece of how we will do business in the very near future.....hopefully. And we will likely embrace profiling quickly as yet another step to help ensure that we, as US citizens, don't fall victim to our own PC nightmare that our current administration has allowed and perhaps, promoted.

If we are so concerned about the safety of us and ours and we take steps in many other ways to that end, it would seem to follow that we should be able to feel safe and secure enough to enjoy daily, family activities without the potential of being maimed or killed by someone else's dog.

YMMV................

magnumb speak heap big straight forward truth.

in the dessert column.

Actually if we think back hard enough some of us might remember news of a baby that was actually killed by a very small dog. I think it was a pom... pomeranian, or how ever you spell that.

It was a small lap dog anyways, and it was a very small baby, like 6 months or younger.

So yeah, chit can happen with any breed.

But it happens more with pits & rots than any other breed.

Of course it's always "I just can't believe it, he's never done anything like this before" with any dog. But Pit owners find themselves in this position more than anyone else.(disbelief)

That's just the truth.

That's 'cause they never get a second chance!

At first glance that seems a reasonable conclusion, but it is in fact incorrect. Raw stats, in the absence of consideration of relevant factors by someone deeply knowledgeable about the subject, often lead to radically incorrect conclusions.

For example, it might seem logical to conclude that umbrellas being unfolded cause rain to fall, since I observe that when I count high numbers of unfolded umbrellas on any major street in the nation, rain is generally falling at that time. This would be an incorrect conclusion, however, because it fails to more deeply analyze the relevant factors surrounding the relationship.

Some factors entirely ignored in these raw-stats-based conclusions regarding American (Pit) Bull Terriers (APBT) are such as the following: What percentage of all APBTs in the United States are currently in, or have lived in, abusive, neglectful, or dysfunctional conditions? What effect could this factor have on the available statistics? How many APBTs are there in the United States compared to other large and powerful breeds of dog like, for example, Fila Brasileiro, and what effect does this factor have on the total number dog bite statistic? Is there a media preference for stories relating to APBTs causing harm vs other breeds causing harm, due to the perception that such stories draw more public interest? What effect does this have on available data? When "Pitbull" stats are compiled, are only pure bred dogs considered, or are all APBT admixtures included, or perhaps even dogs that someone thought "looked like" a "Pitbull?" Are multiple breeds lumped into the fictional category of "Pitbull" (There is no dog breed by that name registered by any breed club) for the purpose of compiling dog bite statistics? Is the same standard used for compiling statistics on, for example, German Shepherds? Are APBTs (perhaps for sociological reasons connected with the economic class that tends to own them) statistically more likely than other powerful breeds to live their lives on a chain in the yard, rather than in a family setting with normal socialization? What effect does maintaining a dog on an chain in the yard have on propensity to bite?

See what I mean? Raw numbers are entirely worthless without a deeper knowledge and consideration of all relevant factors.

Umbrellas cause rain? Media preference?

Really?

I mean.... Really?

Wow that's weak.


Check it out...

Doctor:
"the patient died of cancer"

A cancer lover/owner (as if):
"Woe, hold on doc, I don't like the way you are talking about cancer. These raw facts are entirely worthless without a deeper knowledge and consideration of all relevant factors."

Doctor:
"Whut?"





Pitbulls do not maim & kill, pitbull owners do.

The dog bite site is pretty informative when delved into!

2009 Statistics

The dogs aren't the problem, the owners are the problem.


Phil

Pit bulls are misunderstood... Do not believe the graph... They really mean poodle instead of pit bull....Really...It's a typo...

I find it very telling that the picture they use to illustrate the American (Pit) Bull Terrier (upper right hand corner) at this site is actually not an American (Pit) Bull Terrier. It's an American Bulldog. This is part of the problem. The identifier "Pitbull," for the purpose of these statistics, amounts to all dogs that, to a non-expert observer, "look like" a "Pitbull."

Rather than just post a graph, why not post the statistics the graph is trying to point out???

There were a total of 32 fatal attacks.
Yes 44% of those were by pit-bulls.
75% of those were on the owners property.
Some 63% involved children.
Nearly 40% involved multiple dogs.
and 19% involved dogs that were chained...


We had a death of a 3 year old boy up in Apple Valley last week by a pit-bull... The owner left his child out side playing with the dog while he went inside?????????


Phil

Chained at the time. Says nothing about the usual situation of the dogs who were not on a chain when they attacked someone, i.e., were the other dogs usually chained, but got loose? Chaining "Pitbulls" is considered cool in the socioeconomic classes that tend (in the greatest numbers) to own them.

Chaining, in case you weren't aware, is an ancient method for conditioning dogs to become people-aggressive. This method was written about in the ancient world as the preferred method for making dogs into effective guard dogs (released at night to roam the interior of walled-in estates till their keepers put them back on the chain in the morning), i.e., dogs that will attack anyone other than their handlers.

Points well taken.......as I said earlier, not sure where the line (breed) should be drawn, but that would be up to those most familiar with the #'s (attacks, maimings, deaths due to....) come into play.

Differentiating between breeds and their subtle or not so subtle differences.......not easy. Someone can do this and would be willing to do so, not I. These differences, be they pronounced or not, won't make a difference to any victims nor their families.

As an aside, but pertinent IMHO.............Since retiring from LE several years ago, I was obviously personally aware of who were the sex offenders in our community. I knew their MO's and faces. My neighbor below me was having his house painted a couple summers back and while walking my dog in my backyard (which adjoins his backyard), I saw all 3 of the painters working on his fence. I recognized one as being a sex offender (SO). This neighbor has a young son and young twin daughters. I called him and told him of the situation and he denied that any of the painters went by either that first or last name. I told him that I wasn't guessing about my recollection of this person and after my neighbor made a call to these painters boss, the SO painter never returned to work at this site after lunch. He had given a false name to his boss and admitted to that after some more in-depth questioning.

My point being............I would not have cared so much as my kids are grown and I don't mind SO's finding employment that enhances opportunities to turn their own lives around (as long as it doesn't put others at risk). But knowing that this particular individual was an SO and that he obviously had standing orders not to be around children, my decision to disclose this info to my neighbor was a no-brainer. I knew him to be a Level III SO, but had he been a Level I SO, it would not have made any difference to me. An SO is an SO is an SO. So the level of his SO status had no bearing whatsoever on how I perceived him nor how I dealt with him. I fully understood the potential of this person to harm others and as "stats" prove out, LIKELY to once again harm others........ala....certain breeds of dogs.

His pedigree, if you will, made no difference. I placed him in that catagory of "a threat to society". I know he was part Hipsanic, but how much I don't know.......didn't care. Ala....was it a full APBT or not. Was it a Fila Brasileiro or not? Was the Ft. Hood shrink tied up in his yard too long? Was the "underwear bomber" normally socialized? I'd say this latter fella WAS normally socialized, at least, given his roots and "breed". Socialzation doesn't just take place between the ages of 0 and 5 years of age. It's a continual process. Seems it didn't take much to get this fella to revert back to his roots.

What's in us will always be there, whether masked for a short duration or forever. But more often than not, I contend, as does cream, what we are truly about almost always rises to the top.

Breeds of dogs, whether "pure bred dogs" or not and "breeds" of people.......not really so different, sans one major difference.

Humans have the ability to make good decisions at all times with respect to how their decisions and/or choices might impact others lives........quite literally. That people owning such dogs obviously must have considered the potentially, dire outcomes of owning such an animal, but then still choose to place others in harms way in spite of these very real possibilities.........disconcerting, at best.

The breed makes no difference? All dogs can attack...

Cute dog, Bart. I've always liked Pugs. Ok, you've convinced me. We should pass a law requiring that it only be legal to own Pugs. Happy?

How can you not include beagles?

Too cool Bart.

O.K. I'm in late on this. Sam sorry for your wife and pup. I have owned dogs all of my life I will not try to change anyones mind about any dog breed. Those of you who feel that certain breeds are all bad should not own them. Over the last 50+ years I have owned Pits, Rots, Akti, Boxer, English Bull, Mutts. I have never had a dog of mine bite. I have put dogs down due to bad temperment two that were not able to be socilized with other dog (always ready to fight). I will not have a dog I'm not able to control. My opinion is it is the responsibilty of the owner to know the animal and its temperment. I currently have a pit and a corgie my pit is one of the best dogs I'v owend he it alterd and is a good family pet he plays well with all other dogs male and female including the 3lb mutt next door and my son's male spanial.My point is I don't feel it is reasonable or intelligent to assume all of any breed are bad or good it's a dog by dog base.

My wife and oldest daughter have conspired (conspired I tell you!) to get a little dog. They already tried once- a Daschhound blend that was a sweet little dude but an unrepentant goat and chicken-chaser so he had to go back to the pound...

Anyway they ALMOST brought home a pug last week. It was cheap and had a good personality, they say. But it was shaved clean due to mange and was just a puppy.

So I almost owned a shaved, mangy, pug puppy. How cool is that?

I agree completely with your comment that it is the "responsibility of the owner to know the animal and his temperment......no question about it. How many times have you heard the owner being interviewed after a maiming say, "my dog has never showed this type of propensity.....NEVER. I can't believe he/she attacked, maimed or killed that person (child or adult)". More than a few times, if we're being truthful.

Even though such statements might make the owner feel better, I'm sure that the victims and their families could care less as to that dogs history......why should they? They've got a family member either maimed or dead. A bit like the comment we here on the forum detest, "I didn't know it was loaded". Sooooo, how intelligent does that make the owner of the dog or the shooter in such cases?

The problem with stating how many cats, gerbils, son's dogs and/or people get along with such capable breeds is that all those relationships don't make any difference if a maiming or death occurs due to the actions of that particular dog......none whatsoever. The end result generally results in the dog's demise, either by a victims family member or by the authorities. Either way, that results in almost zero justice, 'cuz if we are to believe that " it IS THE RESPONSIBILITY of the owner to know the animal and it's temperment", as you adamantly state, the owner likely will feel bad, all aware of what YOU have caused will be disgusted by your actions and unintelligent decisions (as the responsible owner) and you will hopefully be sued for everything you and your family own, plus what you're likely to earn for the remainder of your life. From my many years of contacts with such owners of such capable breeds, I doubt that 5% could have paid enough restitution to cover the deductible for a single Dr's visit, much less the many thousands of dollars (or millions these days) court ordered due to a maiming or death. This is not to say that you or others aren't quite capable of reimbursing such victims adequately (whatever that means), but that has not been my experience. So where does that leave the victims and their families?? Yep.......in many cases, no better off financially, but now taking care of a loved one with not only physical issues, but emotional ones as well. This is if they survive such an attack.

Just because we should all KNOW our pets, as you suggest, does in no way mean that people do nor that they care. In the end, such wishful thinking and blanket statements mean absolutley nothing to those forever affected by the animal you supposedly know so well.

If we could put people to sleep along with their dogs who cause so much pain and suffering, then we might see some changes in the way people approach such decisions. Kind of an eye for an eye thing, except that the victims didn't ask to be victims and the owners of such dogs knew the rules going in. Since that will never happen because we're not an eye-for-eye nation anymore, perhaps making mandatory insurance policies for such owners makes sense. At least this way, victims of such attacks or their surviving family members will be assured of some compensation. Better than nothing at all and it might just cut down on the # of owner's NOT KNOWING their animals. Those being.........those owners who evidently didn't know their dogs very well, that caused those staggering #'s of maimings and deaths that the aformentioned statistics refer to. If they all coulda, shoulda, woulda.......wishful thinking, time to wake up.

What we should have done, how we should have acted.........absolutely meaningless to victims and their families. It is neither reasonable nor intelligent to think that ALL others will act as responsibly as we would hope......IMHO. Given that, certain dog owners put others at risk and in grave danger. They do this willingly and knowingly as they obviously know what carnage their dog can inflict, a reason why many owners desire and own such dogs.

Do you mean to tell us that you cannot think of a reason owners of dogs known by them to be dangerous would say that to the authorities and news media? Ever hear the word "liability?" If a person has encouraged human aggression in their dog, the last thing they are going to do when their dog attacks the wrong person is to openly admit that it had ever before demonstrated a propensity for such behavior. Human beings (in case you're not a student of human nature) have a strong tendency to act in their own immediate best interest.

That's quite obvious...................

Baffles me what all the fuss is about???

Chance of getting killed by lightning are about 1 in 2,000,000.

Chances of getting killed by a pit-bull are about 1 in 20,000,000.

When you figure that getting killed by being struck by lightning is just a chance of living.

And yet most victim's of being killed by a pit-bull knowingling walk into the situation in some form.

Kind of makes you wonder what all the fuss is about!



Phil

You're making way too much sense for most here.

Lightening strikes vs Pit Bull attacks........you're kidding...........right?

Someone "responsible" owns the dog (whatever breed capable of inflicting grievous bodily harm) vs an Act of Nature.............

Doooooood....................

Oh yeah, that is true for certain.

Somebody need's to make a movie titled "Jaws", and for a few years everybody will be afraid to walk the streets...

Then for no reason people will start killing off Pit-bulls for no other reason than to feel safe again.


Phil

Its kil or be kil-ed Phil

Yeah... A child is at fault that it's killed or maimed by a vile dog...

Ya know.....I thought about goin' there, but since I'm not sure he really got the difference between lightening strikes and Pit Bull attacks, well, it seemed likely a waste of my time.

But thanks......saved me a few seconds of low grade stress.......

As I stated I would in no way try to change the opinion of others on the subject I agree nothing can compensate the victim or thier family in such a tragity no amount of insurance all though I agree one should have it will help. So should we then destroy all capible breed dogs? if that is the case then having worked in law enforcment I submit that a sports car being driven by a drunk that can go 120mph wich is illegal and kills hundreds on our highways every year should be banned? is this reasonable or fair to the person who loves thier car and drive responsibly? it is my opinion it is not the dog,car or gun. When are people going to learn to stop blaming and take responsiblity.

Let's discuss another breed. How about Dobermans?

Yeah right, that makes a lot of sense.
Gun and sports cars can't think and act on their own a pit can.

Ontario has it right so does the marines.
So DID Dade County until the courts became involved.

Or Labs. Like I said at the beginning, my Lab injured a small dog pretty badly.....

Never saw a dog wield a gun nor drive a car ( OK....there is that one big white Poodle commercial), but other than that commercial, I'm up for being brought on board........

I can control both my car and my gun and neither will be out of my sight on their own accord. I can control the gas pedal on my car, the amount of booze I consume and the direction my barrel is pointed on all of my guns, at all times. They do not have minds of their own.....they are what are called.....inanimate objects. Unlike, say........dogs.

But I can't control lightening, earthquakes nor the amount of rain we receive each day as of late......I wish. And from what I've read, it obviously must be a challenge to control the several breeds of dogs noted in the aformentioned statistics from maiming and killing people.

Why should responsible people be blamed, 'cuz that's what you seem to be saying? People who are irresponsible should get blamed when they are irresponsible.....I'm thinkin' that's just how it works. When serious enough, those that are really irresponsible are charged with a crime. Blame = charged.

Where is it that I've stated that people shouldn't be responsible? Quite the contrary. That's the intent of my last few posts.......act responsibly and reasonably. Act with others well-being in mind and not just your own. If you want to walk a tight rope up 20 floors, please do so as long as no others are beneath you 'cuz that could endanger others. You see, that's the whole point.

We truly can only control ourselves and inanimate objects.....nothing more. We can somewhat control other living things, but not always 100% of the time and that control is only possible when we are physically able to easily overpower said things. Well behaved or not, well trained or not.........the basics must be covered. Can you take, beat, make succumb, this living thing at the drop of a hat.........and this is IF you're even around and the situation calls for such measures.

If the answer is probably not or no and most dog owners are adults.................how could a child, young, elderly, weak person be expected to do so, especially when taken by total surprise as is oftentimes the case. I'd venture a guess that most healthy adults, fully aware of an attack forthcoming, would not fair much better unless they were able to draw a weapon. How often would that occur?

I doubt anyone will "blame" the victim nor say that they weren't being responsible, in most cases. There will obviously be exceptions as with most things. But yes, in most every case, there will be blame placed as it should be and it will be placed squarely at the feet of the owner, where it belongs.

I really don't think we disagree just stating it differntly. You are right in a dog attack the resonsibility is that of the owner
bad owners make bad dogs. Mishandle a car,gun or dog the out come will not be good.

I totally agree, especially that bad owners make bad dogs.

My concern is also that there aren't enough good owners out there. The real issues, in that regard, then become those owners of such breeds that can and do result in maimings and deaths of people and their pets.

I'd be willing to bet that there are just as many crappy pug owners as there are crappy pit bull owners... Still waiting for a news report on a deadly pug attack...

And I already told you I'd be willing to join your campaign to outlaw the ownership of all dogs other than pugs. It's for the children, after all. How shall we go about it?

I don't know where you came up with that...
Levity ain't really all that hard to pull off but you can't push it...

Then, if I misread you, what is it you're proposing. I'm with you. Just fill me in.

Quote what you misread...

I said that I may have misread you, as in what you were implying in your repeated pug comments. Let's work together now on a new law for the children. You start.

I imply when I'm BS'ing... Other than that I'm pretty strait forward. Try your sanctimonious spiel on someone else...

OK, lets' assume that I was way off base. Let's get back to the issue, though, because I agree with you that it's an important one. What laws would you like to impose for the safety of the children? Which classes of gun ... sorry, a slip ... which breeds of dog should Americans be permitted by their government to own, and who gets to decide? Perhaps there should be a panel of government-appointed experts to make the decision, and they could revise the list annually. How about that?

Dobermans make me nervous my uncl had a big male he would always watch you so close when I was a kid I was afraid to move around him. Then when you called him he would come and want to play.

Chicago man apparently killed by daughter's dogs
Jan 18 01:50 PM US/Eastern

Daughters Pit Bulls Kill Chicago Man in His Home

CHICAGO (AP) - Chicago police are investigating the death of a 56-year-old man who was apparently fatally mauled by his daughter's pit bulls.

The daughter told authorities she came home Sunday night and found her father, Johnny Wilson, lying on the living room floor, covered in blood. The Cook County Medical Examiner's office said Wilson suffered numerous bite wounds on various parts of his body.

The daughter turned over four adult pit bulls and two puppies to Chicago Animal Care and Control, where the dogs were being evaluated.

Neighbors said there was no sign of dog fighting at the residence, and that Wilson had never seemed to have any problem with the dogs in the past.

No charges had been filed as of Monday morning.

___

Information from: Chicago Tribune, http://www.chicagotribune.com

Tragic storie I feel for the family. Four dog's in one house? six with the pups. With the pit breed I would think that would be risky I'v only ever had 1 pale dog for my pit and it was never another pit.

This is precisely my point. Any "Pitbull" bite anywhere in North America will find it's way to a national outlet. These stories are very popular, so there's a strong market for them.

I put "Pitbull" in quotes, because there are several breeds that are arbitrarily called that by the MSM, including dogs that someone just thinks looks like a "Pitbull." There is actually no such breed name.

Where were these stories before 1975? No one ever heard of a breed called "Pitbull" then. Coincidence? Back then the stories were about Doberman Pinschers. Lot's of people had heard of them, since the MSM had spent years building up their reputation as crazy devil dogs. Eventually, though, those stories stopped selling, so they had to find another devil dog with which to terrify the general public. That's when we were first introduced to the "Pitbull."

Again, my dad tells me that in the 1930s and 1940s people were terrified of Boxers from stories in the papers about them latching on to you for no reason and never letting go. News media outlets depend on instilling terror in the weak minded and uncritically thinking public so to sell their coverage.

I guess certain dog breeds don't kill kids and other dogs....


I don't care what you own, but if you can't keep it contained and it harms me or mine, the dog will get no quarter and the owner would be lucky to get likewise.

Your right, some of us don't have time for some laws.

my nine month old pug gonna teach him to chase piggies