Anyone seen this movie yet or going to see it? I'm hoping to see it this weekend, if not, the weekend after that.

To those who've seen it today, or whatever, mind posting your thoughts and opinions here?

I'm really looking forward to watching it.

Even tho I haven't seen it and almost certainly won't, this is the perfect spot for the oft used.....

The book was better. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I hope to see it next week. It is sold out right now which is unheard of in this area. I'm thinking it is gonna be a huge event...

I have tickets for Saturday. Can't wait.

HogWild

News reported Gibson could top $40 million from the film. Think this goes to motive?

For as much money I'm sure he already has, I doubt it.

everything I have heard about his making of this movie has nothing to do with making money it has to do with his faith. I am going Friday afternoon with the wife. got the tickets all ready. tom

Charlie,

Here is a case where I 100% fully agree with you.............. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Blaine

I wouldn't mind hearing others' opinions of the movie, but I won't be able to see it til next week, so just don't give away the ending, OK? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I hope this move does so well that someone makes "The Ressurection", which includes Christ putting the thump on the devil.

I saw it monday night. All I can say is that is very, very moving.

Churches have been putting on "Passion Plays" for years! I saw a rather well done version at a large local church two years ago. It was very well done to have been non-professionals...

It does make one reflect on the tremendous sacrifice our Lord made for all of us!

I really love watching the non-believers and Jews squirm with grandiose stories of controversy and anti-semitism...It ain't controversial, the Bible says it and I believe it!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Last time I checked Jesus died for all sinners therefore we, as sinners, are all responsible for his willingly giving his life for us, not Romans, not Jews, only mankind..

Mike

RAM - We already know yer a sad heathen, do ya have to be an annoying, cynical heathen as well?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Regards, sse

Gibson risked $30 Mill of his own money to make the film. During the filming, everyone in Hollywood thought he was crazy and ridiculed him. Afilm about Christ in a dead language?......a guaranteed bomb! He claimed he felt he needed to make the film and didn't care how much he lost. Now that it looks like the film will turn a profit (which no one dreamed of while filming) suddenly everyone judges his motive.

It's easy to throw rocks from the cheap seats. Who else had the balls to do it? I don't think Gibson would have taken the risk if he hadn't felt a "need" or "calling" to do it. He didn't care if he lost all the money. He took a huge risk......if he turns a profit, he earned it!!! If he truly takes in $40 million as you quoted, it's not a big return on a $30 million investment considering the risk.

HogWild

I am a big fellow, rather coarse, been around the world more times than I can remember now. I am ugly with a big beard, and I have seen death.

I wept openly. The movie was absolutely overwhelming. It made me pray. May God give me grace to follow the Lamb wherever He goes...

I am Protestant to my bone marrow, nonetheless, should I have the honor of meeting Roman Catholic Mel Gibson, I would shake his hand and thank him from my heart. He has a done a great service to the Church at large and also the world.

Cat, without seeing the movie, I'm inclined to agree! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We plan on seeing it as soon as Wifey and I can get our schedules in sync. Both of us look forward to seeing it.

Kudos to Gibson for going ahead with this in spite of the opposition he faced. I hope the spiritual harvest is even greater than the profit margin.
7mm

Reports this morning are stating that it made between $15-20 million YESTERDAY! WOW! For one, I could care less if Gibson makes money or how much he makes. I'm just sorta interested in seeing the movie.

I'll second that!

I'm going Saturday night... we'll see. I will say it's refreshing to see someon who takes his/her faith seriously and put their money where their mouth is... it seems the VERY Roman Catholic Mel Gibson may fill more evangelical churches than all confirmed protestant's combined... and who said God doesn't have a sense of humor!

Using the logic of some of our posters, it is perfectly obvious to me that God is endorsing capitalism. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Now, if He'd just book a stadium somewhere and charge to see a small miracle or three. Now that would pack them in.

Cat, unfortanatley God doesn't work that way. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Tell you what though, if you're interested in seeing it free, PM me your addy, and I'll be happy to send you the cash. Bet there's lots of other members here who feel the same, too.



Dixie, I've heard lots of accounts of "Tough Guys" like us ( <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) moved to tears. I plan to see it anyway. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



I watched a show on Discovery last night entitled "Who Killed Jesus". Both Biblical and historical accounts of the events leading to His death. The mock trial held by Ciaphus, the grilling given Him by Pontius Pilate, even Jesus' own refusal to leave the city, though He knew they were after Him.



But they never said a word about who actually pounded the nails in Him. You and me.

7mm

7mmBuster:







No, thanks for the offer though, I don't need the money, the movie, or the belief support system. The Christian version of God is pretty lazy as far as I can tell, hasn't done anything but edit (if that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) a fiction book for the gullible in the last few thousand years. But if believing in that book makes someone live better, or die easier, and they leave me alone about it, it suits the poodunkie out of me.

I respect your feelings on the matter, though I don't agree.



The offer stands, should you change your mind. I hope to hear from you.

7mm

This is the most moving film I have ever witnessed.

Please,go see for yourself.

Jeff

I saw it last night. I've seen the passion play several times. Nothing has moved me the way this movie did. There was not a dry eye in the packed audience and everyone left the theater in total silence.



When you go see it do plan some time to reflect afterward. You won't feel like going out to dinner or socializing after the movie.



Gibson and crew did a good thing.



PS. I think it fair to say that I was as moved by this movie as I was the birth of my first child.

Is God against capitalism?
(Not trying to start something, btw, ... just asking because I don't know, and am curious as to why He would hold such a position.)

IIFID

LOL

Quote
No, thanks for the offer though, I don't need the money, the movie, or the belief support system. ... it suits the poodunkie out of me. ...

Next time I'm down your way I gotta stop by and we'll heathen each other to tears!! I'm not in any hurry to see it either.

(I'll chuckle about this thing for days.)

Walker, The intellectual foundation of capitalism is based on concepts central to Christian belief. Without writing a book on the subject, allow me to make a brief point.
One need look no further than the Ten Commandments. "Thou shall not steal." This, of course, implies ownership--private property. "Thou shall not lie." This is the basis of a contract--two or more parties promising to do something. Once these two concepts--private property and the ability to make contracts--are codified in a legal system, capitalism is the immediate result. One could easily argue that without Christianity, capitalism as we know it today would not exist. RS

Guys,

IFID's comments really shouldn't seriously considered in discussions such as these. Him commenting on Christianity is like me commenting on the value gold coins--I have no credibility in such an area, and anything I would say would be from an honest lack of interest and honest lack of understanding.

Blaine

OK, You unbeliever guys could be right about the whole Christianity deal, but what if you're wrong? Oops.

Regards, sse

AFP:



Au contraire....I was indoctrinated early, baptized, etc., I just grew out of it. I've read the Bible, cover to cover, and sections of it many times (sometimes I forget my reading material in those motel rooms and the local talent doesn't recognize the fact that behind all that fat is a stud <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) Ecclesiates is one of my favorites, 9:5 and 10:19 especially. I strongly suspect, that given a test on Christianity, I'd score in the upper percentiles. I just don't believe the Bible in most things, and I REALLY don't believe in the concept of a caring Christian God, movie or not. Just for fun, name one documented appearance of God to the multitudes in the last 1000 years or so. Maybe he did die on the cross? But, hey, keep that camcorder around, you never know when that robin is going to start talking to you and I'd be the first to want to hear it.

The difference is, I have ZERO problem with anyone's faith as long as they leave me and other people alone, but most Christians find that a nearly impossible feat. For instance, the current uproar about marriage between homosexuals. I'm sure you won't agree, but if you think about it, how is a "normal" marriage endangered? If God is half as powerful AND interested as Christians seem to think, why not let Him handle it, either now or later (post mortum). Like I said, many Christians think they know so much about what God wants they are a real pain in the butt, they just can't leave it to him.

And,Ihope to make this my last post in this thread....I don't want to hijack the movie reviews or the current round of rapture and I really have no interest in arguing about ghosts, or God. If you liked the movie, I'm happy for you. If you believe, I'm happy for you. I don't believe, and I'm happy for me.

iifid,
You are unbelievable!

IFID writes...

"....The Christian version of God is pretty lazy as far as I can tell, hasn't done anything but edit (if that ) a fiction book for the gullible in the last few thousand years. But if believing in that book makes someone live better, or die easier, and they leave me alone about it, it suits the poodunkie out of me...."

and then states

"...I have ZERO problem with anyone's faith as long as they leave me and other people alone, but most Christians find that a nearly impossible feat..."

These comments about "wanting to be left alone" after making a number of unsolicited disparaging comments about Christianity in response a thread that merely requested information about a movie.

IFID, maybe your Christian roots are showing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

On a more general note, I too have been watching with amusment the near hysterical attacks on the movie from the media; the oft used "anti-semitic", "brutal", "Braveheart meets the Bible" and the pretty funny "Gospel according to the Marquis de Sade".

The New York press has been especially hysterical so it was with some interest that I listened to NYC's veteran movie critic Gene Shalit (who is Jewish) give his take on the movie on "Good Morning America" this morning. His take on the film: "not anti-Semitic, very moving, and very good".

My favorite positive take on the movie came from a local Minister when asked about the movie's violent scenes: "Sure its rated 'R', for 'reality'..." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Won't get to see it myself until the rush dies down somewhat, I will say that I find the images of that actress playing Satan to be absolutely chilling, but then I'm one of the "gullible masses".

Birdwatcher

IIFID, when you say that you don't believe, does that mean in anything? What is your take on life itself, on a childs birth, the beauty of a trout stream, the country of north Alaska, ect. ect. ect....... what is a purpose for being here in your opinion??? Just curious........Boots

'Twas reported on this AM's news,that some old gal corked it,during the flick.

Would surmise by saying that the "Lord" works in mysterious ways,though I'm sure some are trying to scheme grandeur within those circumstances.

Myself,I believe [bleep] happens,regardless of the Feature.........................

Haven't seen the movie yet, but I have heared and read all sorts of stuff on it. What stikes me as funny is the fact that some are calling it violent, with too much blood, etc.
Last time I checked, Christ was CRUCIFIED, right?
How do you portray that in a non violent way?! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
A He was also, I might add , crucified by a civilization that at that time was a very violent one, and I have been told by others who have seen the film that Gibson did a fantastic job of trying to keep the authenticitry of everything. I am looking forward to it , myself.
Catnthehat

Thanks, RipSnort. The more I think about it (inalienable rights of individuals to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, etc.) the more obvious it becomes that capitalism is the social/economic system most likely to find approval with God. I have little doubt that you (and AFP) are right on the money. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I would suspect that God might be quite pleased with Mel Gibson's movie efforts, and is just waiting to see what he decides to do with the profits. (Although I suppose He already knows the answer to that one, too.)

I saw the movie yesterday with my wife. We both cried during the film. I think the special thing about this movie is that it shows us HOW MUCH Christ suffered for us. But that said; no movie or words can truly describe the spiritual suffering He endured when He took the sins of the world upon Himself and His Father turned from Him until it was accomplished. Most movies about Christ candy-coat the crucifixion, but this showed it in all it's detail. I'm suprised that anyone would call it "overly" violent. Compared to what? It was historically and Biblicly factual. I don't think anyone can see it without being touched by the love of God unless you have a heart of stone. If one person puts his faith in Christ because of it, then it was worth it. If you get a chance see it, don't miss it. It truly is a moving and powerful film and the use of Aramaic and Latin made it all the more so. All the actors did a superb job. When the smoke clears all the critics will become a hush and it will go down as one of the greatest films.

IFID,
I will pray for you. Paul at one time was a heckler of Christians until he saw the Truth. You said that you have read the the Bible- then you should know that the believers were heckeled from the beginning. But you should also know from reading Revelation that all the "heckling" and persecution stop. Where do you want to be then? Those in the lake of fire will be suffering too much to "heckle". Don't let your pride cause you to miss out on God's love.


Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!
To God Alone Be The Glory!

I'm going to see the movie tonight. Though I don't expect any sort of Revelation, I do hope it is as good as I've heard.



I'm sorta in IFID camp, in that I don't care what you believe just don't try to make me believe what you do. Live and let live. It has also been my experience that many of those 'skeptical' of religion or the bible are often as well or better versed in it than those to claim to live the life. Something I find troubling and odd.



As far as folksnot believing, my upbringing taught me God was one to forgive and that it was never too late to repent. So, I guess onc can have hope in case they're wrong.

well, pointer, of course that is the case in many people reading - even studying - the Bible and not getting it. it is not some sort of magic elixir. the Bible states its case and that is that. the Bible, indeed, addresses this issue. it is up to the reader on whether or not to believe.

as for the movie itself, it is a daring, provocative, stunning cinematic achievement whether you believe that was the Son of Man who was crucified or not.

for example, the film starts at the end (the end of the law) and ends with the beginning (the new Way). even for believers fully versed in the Gospels this can be jarring because a normal story line is not followed.

another example is the use of the ancient languages for all dialogue. even with the use of subtitles, this was a bold move almost guaranteed to add difficulty for the average viewer, but it provides a sense of the cosmopolitan crossroads that Jerusalem was at the time.

a third example is the emphatic reproduction of the casual use of violence by those in charge. scourging, beating and crucifixion were everyday very public things in this corner of the roman empire. gibson caught this casualness so well that to our western sensibilities, the sense of cinematic violence is much heightened.

fourth, a key bit of dialogue occurs when a soldier asks the suffering Jesus why He embraces the cross He is carrying; indeed, cavaziel carresses the cross like a lover. the solder's question defines the total illogic of Jesus accepting - no, embracing - His suffering and death.

Passion, indeed.

Cat,the absolute FUNNIEST thing about it is that suddenly the media is concerned about onscreen violence? One reviewer that thought "Gladiators" was the cinematic masterpiece of the year,wrote that The Passion was "way too bloody,violent". Evidently he watched a diferent Gladiator movie than I did?
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Jeff

My thoughts exactly. That would be a big "Oops" and I'm not a gambler. Although I am a Christian, I do confess to be "back slidden" (a technical term down South). But to me, how can one look at this world and every living creature in it and think it just happened from one microscopic atom or something. Yeah, Right!!!!!

Roads

hey bx roads, let's get you frontslidden. won't take nothin' but a little forgiving. all ya gotta do is ask from the heart. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

One�s religious beliefs are rather personal, but since we are on the subject, here�s my two cents. Or two shekels, whatever�

For about a real long time there was a whole bunch of people living around the eastern Mediterranean who basically lived their lives by �you hurt me then I hurt you back, I look out for me, and if you don�t look out for you then screw you.� That may have allowed a certain band of people to survive in a harsh environment and keep a cultural (and some would say racial) identity for about 5000 years. But it doesn�t seem to have brought much peace in their lives as we can see by the constant warring state it has brought the current residents.

Anyway, along about 2000 years ago this Jewish carpenter said, �ya know, why don�t you try being nice to each other? I mean, go out of your way to be nice. If someone asks you to carry their load a mile, carry it two miles. Forgive those who would hurt you. Be so doggone nice that if a fellow slugs you, just turn the other cheek.� He said a lot more, and there are those who make a living arguing the nuances of each syllable he said, but, being one who values the KISS principle very highly, I just boil it all down to �try a lot more love for each other and a lot less hate - be really nice to each other�.

Did this carpenter have some supernatural powers or links to a supernatural being, or was he just a political radical in the eyes of the political power brokers of the time? That's up to each person to figure out. You may or may not believe the mystical mumbo-jumbo or the trappings that have been hung on this guy�s name by a special group of society who happened to have been the major political power of Europe for 1000 years or so, and we know how messages tend to get, shall we say, �bent�, by political powers. But even with all of the ornamentation hung upon the original message and the incredibly hypocritical behavior of many of those people who professed to follow it, the gist of it is powerful enough to still shine through.

Do I believe that there is one and only one way to a reward after we step through that door that we all must eventually step through? Do I believe that Mr. Chin or Mr M�buta or Mr. Fayad will burn in some extra-dimensional fiery torment just because they happened to be born in a different part of the world where this carpenter�s name is not so revered? No I don�t � but from what I know it seems that almost every instance of the central revered religious/philosophical figure in their cultures basically said the same thing as this carpenter did, so I figure there must be something to this business of basically �being nice�.

What I truly believe about him in my heart is nobody�s business but mine. What you believe is your business and not mine to question. But the bottom line is that I think he had a really good message � �Be nice to each other�. I try to live my life like that as much as I possibly can. If there is some reward for that behavior after this mortal body breathes it�s last then that�s cool with me. If there is just blackness and oblivion, oh well, I can think of worse ways to have lived a life.

My bro got all the dedication and commitment as he is a minister in Montgomery. I must say I admire his dedication. Never drank beer, never cussed, never nothin. The boy has no vice....not even good lookin women (and yes he's married, to a good lookin girl at that) Everybodys got to have vice. So I had to make up for his shortcomings <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> He says he prays for me though <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> That said I am definitely a believer.

I will admit my problem is being board with church. I grew up in church and I'm talkin Sunday morning and night and Wednesday night. I'm just board with the same song and dance. Seems like I've heard every sermon and song. I can go to church and within one minute of the pasters sermon, I know what the next 30 minutes will be. I still believe in Jesus and God. I just cant get the church thing going again. If we could just come up with a way to a spruce it up a bit.....

bx: you can come to my church in b'ham: northpark baptist. down montgomery way, try vaughn forest. it's the same old message (it has to be or it ain't biblical, ya know), but the way it is presented at those two churches is way, way cool. music is contemporary and takes the roof off. i could go on, but you know the drill. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

sorry, jim in idaho, you've got only two choices, and neither of 'em is oblivion. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Jim:

A decent way to live and I applaud you for it.

However, to correct your impression that Jesus, as reported in Matthew was the originator of the "Golden Rule" concept, he was not. It is such a logical social contract concept that it is found in ALL major religions and most minor ones and probably all societies from time immemorial. Certainly it is a basic principal found in Judaism.

For instance, although this is not a religion, Socrates said, probably in 440 BC give or take a few year: "Do not do to others that which would anger you if others did it to you." Or another one I like, age unknown, but certainly not Christian influenced, from the Pima (native american) tribe, "Do not wrong or hate your neighbor. For it is not he who you wrong, but yourself."

IFID,

You are right. Jesus' message was not the Golden Rule, but about having a personal relationship with God. It is either true or it is flase. It's really rather simple and logical.

Jesus said he was the God. We have two choices, either he was or he wasn't. If he was, then he is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

If he wasn't God, we have two choices. Either he knew he wasn't God or he didn't know he wasn't God.

If he knew he wasn't God he was a liar of the most sadistic nature. He demanded unyeilding obedience from his followers, causing generations of suffering and death, when he knew it to be false.

If he didn't know he wasn't God, then he was insane. He thought he was God. Those kind of folks aren't the sharpest sticks in the bunch, certainly not the ones you'd base your life philosophy on.

Some like to point out all the good moral things he said, but like you pointed out, the Golden Rule was not a concept exclusive to Christianity, so he really wasn't giving anything new there. The signs and wonders, if you even believe they really happened, were done by others as well.

Taken on the whole, Jesus didn't really bring anything new to the table for the good of mankind--at least nothing worth the price he has caused so many to pay for his "un novel" ideas. So if he wasn't truly God, he was either a liar or a lunatic, certainly not just a good man and great moral teacher.

Having said all that, I too am not bothered by what other folks believe. Most folks base their beliefs on emotion and a sliding scale of personal acountability. IE, while they say things like are no absolutes and whatever you believe is okay, they sure as h--l act like there are absolutes is if they feel someone has wronged them! Of course, "being wronged" is not possible in a world of relativistic morals.............

I find few folks have really thought things through philosophically, and of thsoe who reject Christianity, very few have actually studied it in depth. I don't mean sitting in Sunday School and playing church, I mean a scholarly, full-blown, bias free, deeply analytical look at the history of the times, the philosophical context of the time, the philosophical ideas and logic about a God vs random meaningless chance, textual criticism, archaeology, scientific thought, etc.

Most folks are not that interested to take that hard of a look and then ask themselves the hard questions of their philosophical belief system, whatever they believe. They pick a belief system from whatever seems convienient, or they have a negative experience with one belief system and conclude it's false, or want to engage in behaviors not cosistent under their present belief system and change so they can have freedom, etc. It's almost never about logical thought. But crud, they don't even teach logic anymore in public schools, so what should I expect?

ripsnort
What about cover thy neighbors wife????????

APF - You got it right. Jesus Christ is either God or a liar. One or the other, it isn't possible to be a "little bit one and a little bit the other".

Too much historical evidence that he lived. No doubts about that. But the fact is he can't be a "good Prophet" or a "good man" or a "good example". He is either a dammed liar or he is God. It's up to each of us to decide what we choose to believe. But there's only one right answer when we face our judgment. There won't be no room for "opinions" on that test.

FWIW, I saw the movie last night. It was good. I thinkg Gibson really hit the nail on the head in the way he portrayed the mob mentality and nature of punishment of the day.

One question for those discussing the basis of religion; is one form of Christianity as good as another? Does Catholic = Lutheran = Protestant = Baptist = etc..???

pointer

Religeon is man's invention. I believe what God will want to know at judgement is, "What did you do with my Son?"

Religeon causes lots of folks to die and bust hell wide open! Just have a personal relationship with Jesus and it'll all be O'kay...

Mike

I somehow doubt God prefers one over the other. I think it boils down to your retationship to Him, and accepting the blood sacrifice made on our behalf.

BTW, for those interested, the actor who played Christ in the movie did a phone interview w/ Rush Limbaugh.
7mm

The wife and I went to see the movie last night. I was impressed with the movie I think he did an excellent job of bringing the words of the bible to life on the screen.
When it says in the bible that they took him out and scourged him the depth of that meant does not come thru since we have no frame of reference to understand. And when the bible says they took him out and crucified him and the words do not convey what that meant.
I have heard people speak in church and explain that writers of the gospels felt no need to expand beyond those words or explain what they meant since the reality of those two acts were common place in that time period. tom

And what will you do for eternity? Just wonderin'...

Waders, good to see you back. Hope your Dad is doing well. Bob

For me the whole validity of Christ, his message, and the Bible can be found in one little passage in Acts.

You see, Roman Palestine, and that part of the world in general, was a hotbed of religious upheaval. The Jewish religion was actually quite well known and spread somewhat throughout the Empire. There were various cults and Messianic figures appearing every few years. They would attract followers and death and resurrection was often part of their messages.

After his resurrection and assent into Heaven, the apostles of Jesus were still going about and preaching the Good News with reckless abandon. Naturally, this brought them into conflict with the same Jewish authorities who had seen to it that Jesus had been crucified. The apostles were arrested and brough before the Sanhedrin and questioned by the High Priest. They would have probably been killed but for the actions of one of the priest. A pharisee named Gamaliel stood up and said (I paraphrase): Remember Theudas. He was a preacher with a number of followers. We killed him and his followers scattered. Remember Judas. He led a revolt and we killed him and his followers scattered. We've already killed Jesus. If his movement be of man, his followers will scatter as well. If his movement be of God, then all we will accomplish by fighting it is being against God and we will not be able to stop it anyway.

That speech saved the apostles on that day. Later the movement was persecuted greatly by the Jews and others. But true to the prophecy of Gamaliel, it did not die out but instead prospered as no other religion ever has.

Today, we would not know the names of any of the messianic pretenders of that time except through obscure references in the Bible and journals from that time. But today, after two thousand years, after innumerable wars, after countless heresies, after fifteen hundred years where a man could be burned for daring to print the Bible in his native language, after countless other trials and tribulations, I am able to read the very words of Jesus in almost any language ever conceived.

Truly, Jesus was the Son of God. He died for our sins, and all anyone needs to prove his faith can be found in the Bible. Mel Gibson's movie is great, but it is not the Bible. The way to God is written in the pages of the Bible. Do not rely on a movie or the preaching of your preacher or priest, read it yourself so that your faith may be nourished and increased through its words.

Waders



Quote: And what will you do for eternity? Just wonderin'...







Ahh.. Contribute to the Carbon Cycle!! How about you??

Waders, Good to see you back.

The wifey and I are going to see the Passion tomorrow afternoon.

Looks to be the biggest movie ever made. Amen...

Here's a pretty good description of the crucifixion process from the medical perspective. Turns out the scourging Jesus received might have proved fatal as much as anything.

www.frugalsites.net/jesus/

Thanx for the show of Christian charity.

Didn't know asking a question made someone a heathen though.

If It Flies It Dies, Since you read the Bible, you know that NO born again Christian can keep living without talking about Jesus and His Word. In fact Jesus commanded it.

What matters is what is between you and Jesus. You have to accept that he was crucified to pay for your sins, then profess that you have done so in public.

Churches and denominations like to argue about the rest. You will want to read the bible and get God's word. As we have seen by some of those posting right here there are some people who attend church that are not Christians. It is possible to be a Catholic / Protestant / Baptist / etc. without being a Christian. That won't get you right with the Lord.

I don�t think it matters which church you belong to. God's Church is made of all believers in Christ. Just find one that preaches / teaches Gods word and one where you can grow in spirit, serve the Lord, and enjoy fellowship with other believers.

Well, I got around to watching the movie tonight, and I must say that it was the most powerful and moving film that I have ever seen in my life. No words can really describe it at all; the whole theatre cried I think, even me! I'm literally stunned. I have so much to be thankful for.

Saw it today and can only say,Wow!!! It was a most moving and intense experience. Mel done good...

Just got home from the theater. Flick lived up to all it's billing. The story is told by combining parts of all four gospels. Very intense. Worth the price of admission, but I wouldn't take a young child to see it.

I haven't seen the movie, but do plan on it when in my area. The following story was recieved in an email, along time back, so it's taken awhile to find. I have not researched the validity of it, but find it very inspirational at minimum. Perhaps, this was part of Mel's inspiration to produce the movie, in spite of the nay sayers.This story was just cut and pasted in the manner it was recieved.



> Here is a true story by Paul Harvey. Pass it to anyone who you think
> > > would
> > > > >find it interesting and inspiring. You will be surprised who this
> young
> > > man
> > > > >turned out to be. (Do not look at the bottom if this letter until
you
> > > have
> > > > >read it fully.)
> > > > >
> > > > >Years ago a hardworking man took his family from New York State to
> > > >Australia
> > > > >to take advantage of a work opportunity there. Part of this man's
> > family
> > > >was
> > > > >a handsome young son who had aspirations of joining the circus as a
> > > trapeze
> > > > >artist or an actor. This young fellow, biding his time until a
circus
> > job
> > > >or
> > > > >even one as a stagehand came along, worked at the local shipyards
> which
> > > > >bordered on the worse section of town.
> > > > >
> > > > >Walking home from work one evening this young man was attacked by
> five
> > > >thugs
> > > > >who wanted to rob him. Instead of just giving up his money the
young
> > > fellow
> > > > >resisted. However they bested him easily and proceeded to beat him
to
> a
> > > > >pulp. They mashed his face with their boots, and kicked and beat
his
> > body
> > > > >brutally with clubs, leaving him for dead.
> > > > >
> > > > >When the police happened to find him lying in the road they assumed
> he
> > > was
> > > > >dead and called for the Morgue Wagon. On the way to the morgue a
> > > policeman
> > > > >heard him gasp for air, and they immediately took him to the
> emergency
> > > unit
> > > > >at the hospital. When he was placed on a gurney a nurse remarked to
> her
> > > > >horror, that his young man no longer had a face. Each eye socket
was
> > > > >smashed, his skull, legs, and arms fractured, his nose literally
> > hanging
> > > > >from his face, all is teeth were gone, and his jaw was almost
> > completely
> > > > >torn from his skull.
> > > > >
> > > > >Although his life was spared he spent over a year in the hospital.
> When
> > > he
> > > > >finally left his body may have healed, but his face was disgusting
to
> > > look
> > > > >at. He was no longer the handsome youth that everyone admired. When
> the
> > > > >young man started to look for work again he was turned down by
> everyone
> > > >just
> > > > >on account of the way he looked. One potential employer suggested
to
> > him
> > > > >that he join the freak show at the circus as" The Man Who Had No
> Face".
> > > And
> > > > >he did this for a while. He was still rejected by everyone and no
one
> > > >wanted
> > > > >to be seen in his company. He had thoughts of suicide. This went on
> for
> > > >five
> > > > >years.
> > > > >
> > > > >One day he passed a church and sought some solace there. Entering
the
> > > >church
> > > > >he encountered a priest who had seen him sobbing while kneeling in
a
> > pew.
> > > > >The priest took pity on him and took him to the rectory where they
> > talked
> > > >at
> > > > >length. The priest was impressed with him to such a degree that he
> said
> > > >that
> > > > >he would do everything possible for him that could be done to
restore
> > his
> > > > >dignity and life, if the young man would promise to be the best
> > Christian
> > > >he
> > > > >could be, and trust in God's mercy to free him from his torturous
> life.
> > > > >
> > > > >The young man went to Mass and communion every day, and after
> thanking
> > > God
> > > > >for saving his life, asked God to only give him peace of mind and
the
> > > grace
> > > > >to be the best man he could ever be in His eyes.
> > > > >
> > > > >The priest, through his personal contacts was able to secure the
> > services
> > > >of
> > > > >the best plastic surgeon in Australia. There would be no cost to
the
> > > young
> > > > >man, as the doctor was the priest's best friend. The doctor too was
> so
> > > > >impressed by the young man, whose outlook now on life, even though
he
> > had
> > > > >experienced the worse was filled with good humor and love.
> > > > >
> > > > >The surgery was a miraculous success. All the best dental work was
> also
> > > >done
> > > > >for him. The young man became everything he promised God he would
be.
> > He
> > > >was
> > > > >also blessed with a wonderful, beautiful wife, and many children,
and
> > > > >success in an industry which would have been the furthest thing
from
> > his
> > > > >mind as a career if not for the goodness of God and the love of the
> > > people
> > > > >who cared for him. This he acknowledges publicly.
> > > > >
> > > > >The young man was and is Mel Gibson.
> > > > >
> > > > >His life was the inspiration for his production of the movie "The
Man
> > > > >Without A Face." He is to be admired by all of us as a God fearing
> man,
> > a
> > > > >political conservative, and an example to all as a true man of
> courage.
> > > And
> > > > >to think I admired him before I knew any of this! He is quite a
man!
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul Harvey
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > > =
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Your story about Mel Gibson is absolute undulterated bull manure. Or, to put it politely, there ain't a word of truth in it. Well, to be accurate, except for the part about the family moving from the US to Australia.



I think people should check on such things before propogating them. www.snopes.com for one spot to check, if you don't know.

Thanks for the heads up on snopes.
I did state I hadn't checked it out, but still found it inspirational.
When I search snopes for absolute
unadulterated bull manure, Mel Gibson didn't come up or anything else for that matter. Bull manure produced no results either.

When I have the time, I will check the authenticity to your reffered site though. Cheer up, IIFID

The Glurge Without a Face





Claim: Mel Gibson was the inspiration for the film The Man Without a Face.



Status: False.



Example: [Collected on the Internet, 2000]





Here is a true story by Paul Harvey. Pass it to anyone who you think would find it interesting and inspiring. You will be surprised who this young man turned out to be. (Do not look at the bottom if this letter until you have read it fully.)





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Years ago a hardworking man took his family from New York State to Australia to take advantage of a work opportunity there. Part of this man's family was handsome young son who had aspirations of joining the circus as a trapeze artist or an actor. This young fellow, biding his time until a circus job or even one as a stagehand came along, worked at the local shipyards which bordered on the worst section of town. Walking home from work one evening this young man was attacked by five thugs who wanted to rob him. Instead of just giving up his money the young fellow resisted. However they bested him easily and proceeded to beat him to a pulp. They mashed his face with their boots, and kicked and beat his body brutally with clubs, leaving him for dead. When the police happened to find him lying in the road they assumed he was dead and called for the Morgue Wagon.



On the way to the morgue a policeman heard him gasp for air, and they immediately took him to the emergency unit at the hospital. When he was placed on a gurney a nurse remarked to her horror, that his young man no longer had a face. Each eye socket was smashed, his skull, legs, and arms fractured, his nose literally hanging from his face, all is teeth were gone, and his jaw was almost completely torn from his skull. Although his life was spared he spent over year in the hospital. When he finally left his body may have healed but his face was disgusting to look at. He was no longer the handsome youth that everyone admired.



When the young man started to look for work again he was turned down by everyone just on account of the way he looked. One potential employer suggested to him that he join the freak show at the circus as The Man Who Had No Face. And he did this for a while. He was still rejected by everyone and no one wanted to be seen in his company. He had thoughts of suicide. This went on for five years.



One day he passed a church and sought some solace there. Entering the church he encountered a priest who had saw him sobbing while kneeling in a pew. The priest took pity on him and took him to the rectory where they talked at length. The priest was impressed with him to such a degree that he said that he would do everything possible for him that could be done to restore his dignity and life, if the young man would promise to be the best Catholic he could be, and trust in God's mercy to free him from his torturous life. The young man went to Mass and communion every day, and after thanking God for saving his life, asked God to only give him peace of mind and the grace to be the best man he could ever be in His eyes.



The priest, through his personal contacts was able to secure the services of the best plastic surgeon in Australia. They would be no cost to the young man, as the doctor was the priest's best friend. The doctor too was so impressed by the young man, whose outlook now on life, even though he had experienced the worse was filled with good humor and love.



The surgery was a miraculous success. All the best dental work was also done for him. The young man became everything he promised God he would be. He was also blessed with a wonderful, beautiful wife, and many children, and success in an industry which would have been the furthest thing from his mind as a career if not for the goodness of God and the love of the people who cared for him. This he acknowledges publicly.



The young man . . .



Mel Gibson.



His life was the inspiration for his production of the movie "The Man Without A Face." He is to be admired by all of us as a God fearing man, a political conservative, and an example to all as a true man of courage.





Origins: This piece, which began circulating in the latter half of the year 2000,

is neither an accurate description of actor/director Mel Gibson's early life nor a transcription of a radio piece by commentator Paul Harvey. Suffice it to say that someone took the framework of Mel Gibson's biography and built upon it a touching but completely fictitious house of glurge.



Mel Gibson's father did move his family from New York to Sydney, Australia, when Mel was 12, but the similarities between this piece and Mel's real life end there. Young Mel wasn't dreaming of "joining the circus as a trapeze artist"; he was a Catholic high school student mulling over the possibilities of becoming a chef or a journalist and ended up enrolling in the University of New South Wales' National Institute of Dramatic Art. Young Mel had a role in the low-budget film Summer City while still a student and then appeared in a number of productions with the State Theatre Company of South Australia before the lucky break that catapulted him to stardom: being chosen for the lead role in George Miller's action film Mad Max.



A little bit of truth may have sneaked into the story quoted above at this point. The night before his Mad Max audition, Gibson reportedly came in a poor second in a barroom brawl, ending up with a face "like a busted grapefruit." He then had to audition for the Mad Max role with a bruised, swollen, discolored, and freshly stitched face � an appearance that, legend has it, helped win over producers who wanted someone weathered and rough-looking to take the part. The beating Gibson received did not, however, leave him with "smashed eye sockets," fracture his "skull, legs, and arms," result in the loss of "all his teeth" or a nose that was "hanging from his face" or a "jaw almost completely torn from his skull." He didn't spend "over a year in the hospital," nor did five years pass with Mel in agony before "plastic surgery restored his looks." His face got smashed up a bit, he required a few stitches to close some open cuts, and a few weeks later he was good as new. (However, some Hollywood pundits maintain that even the milder "barroom brawl" version was a bit of fiction invented by a publicist.)



Mel Gibson did direct and star in The Man Without a Face, a 1993 film about a man who became a recluse after his face was disfigured in an automobile accident, but the movie was based upon a novel by Isabelle Holland, not Mel Gibson's life.



Many of our readers have sworn to us they heard Paul Harvey recite this piece, exactly as reproduced above, on one of his broadcasts. Paul Harvey did offer a "Rest of the Story" segment about Mel Gibson on 24 June 2000, and it was a typically (for Paul Harvey) exaggerated version of the truth, but it didn't come close to the glurge reproduced here. What he reported, verbatim, was this:



In all his years as a cop, Ollie Gerrick had never seen a beating case like the one before him. The boy's face was smashed in. His partner say he wouldn't survive. The ambulance arrived and took him to the hospital and when he came to, the doctors told him the rest of the story. He was in the hospital and then he remembered that night in the bar. It was late the next night that the young man remembered he had an important appointment. He realized it was tomorrow. He struggled to get out of bed but the nurse restrained him. The next morning, he got out of bed and looked in the mirror and he didn't recognize himself. Nevertheless, he went on to the job interview. Despite the bar fight in October of 1977. He showed up for a role in a movie and the producers were looking for someone unknown who was really tough looking. He got the role they were casting for. They were looking for someone to play the rugged role of Mad Max and this Australian with the beaten up face went on to become one of our best modern-day actors. We know him as Mel Gibson, and now you know the rest of the story.

And now you know . . . the real story.



Update: The February 2004 release of the film The Passion of the Christ, financed and directed by Mel Gibson, started this legend circulating anew, often with tacked-on codas such as the following:



Note: This may well help in the understanding of why Mel Gibson's love for the Lord is why he has made such a powerful movie "The Passion" that's coming out February 25th to demonstrate Jesus love and sacrifice for us.

Last updated: 27 February 2004



The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/glurge/noface.htm

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Urban Legends Reference Pages � 1995-2004

by Barbara and David P. Mikkelson



More Gibson urban legends:



Snopes on Gibson

Well, your problem was you seached for the description not the product. If you had entered "Mel Gibson" it would have popped right up and you could have used it for your tomatoes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I find your comment about it being inspirational, albeit untrue, to apply to some other topics on this thread. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm very cheerful and wish you the same. Even if you are in the frozen North. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Actually I did search Mr. Gibson first and did find the "story". I was only pointing out how contagious this propagation thing really is <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Even Aesop's fairy tales are meant to be inspirational. Seriously,before I was old enough to have formulated any opinions, in anyway, I had a real life experience, that could never persuade me to disbelieve in the "book".......ever.
A couple since have reinforced that belief. I've been a fairly poor practicer, but, I'm a damn good believer. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Something else you may find hard to believe, is my wifey grows wheelbarrows full of tomatoes, in spite of our shorter growing season, and her not buying any of my bull either. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

>Paul Harvey's words:
>
>I really did not know what to expect. I was thrilled to have been invited
>to a private viewing of Mel Gibson's film "The Passion," but I had
also
>read all the cautious articles and spin. I grew up in a Jewish town and
>owe much of my own faith journey to the influence. I have a life long,
deeply
>held aversion to anything that might even indirectly encourage any form of
>anti-Semitic thought, language or actions.
>
>I arrived at the private viewing for "The Passion," held in Washington,
>DC and greeted some familiar faces. The environment was typically
>Washingtonian, with people greeting you with a smile but seeming to
>Look beyond you, having an agenda beyond the words. The film was very
>briefly introduced, without fanfare, and then the room darkened. From the
>gripping opening scene in the Garden of Gethsemane, to the very human and
>tender portrayal of the earthly ministry of Jesus, through the
>betrayal,the arrest, the scourging, the way of the cross, the Encounter
>with the thieves, the surrender on the Cross, until the final
>scene in the empty tomb, this was not simply a movie; it was an encounter,
>unlike anything I have ever experienced.
>
>In addition to being a masterpiece of film-making and an artistic triumph,
>"The Passion" evoked more deep reflection, sorrow and emotional reaction
>within me than anything since my wedding, my ordination or the birth of my
>children. Frankly, I will never be the same. When the film concluded,
>this "invitation only" gathering of "movers and shakers"
in Washington, DC
>were shaking indeed, but this time from sobbing. I am not sure there was a
dry
>eye in the place. The crowd that had been glad-handing before the film was
>now eerily silent. No one could speak because words were woefully
>inadequate. We had experienced a kind of art that is a rarity in life, the
>kind that makes heaven touch earth.
>
>One scene in the film has now been forever etched in my mind. A
>brutalized, wounded Jesus was soon to fall again under the weight of the
>cross. His mother had made her way along the Via Della Rosa. As she ran to
>him, she
>flashed back to a memory of Jesus as a child, falling in the dirt road
>outside of their home. Just as she reached to protect him from the fall,
>she was now reaching to touch his wounded adult face. Jesus looked at her
>with intensely probing and passionately loving eyes (and at all of us
>through the screen) and said "Behold I make all things new." These
are
>words taken from the last Book of the New Testament, the Book of
>Revelations. Suddenly, the purpose of the pain was so clear and the
>wounds, that earlier in the film had been so difficult to see in His face,
>His back, indeed all over His body, became intensely beautiful.
>They had been borne voluntarily for love. At the end of the film, after we
>had all had a chance! to recover, a question and answer period ensued. The
>unanimous praise for the film, from a rather diverse crowd, was as
>astounding as the compliments were effusive. The questions included the
>one question that seems to follow this film, even though it has not yet
>even been released. "Why is this film considered by some to be
'anti-Semitic?"
>Frankly, having now experienced (you do not "view" this film) "the
Passion"
>it is a question that is impossible to answer. A law professor whom I
>admire sat in front of me. He raised his hand and responded "After
>watching this film, I do not understand how anyone can insinuate that it
>even remotely presents that the Jews killed Jesus. "It doesn't." he
continued
>"It made me realize that my sins killed Jesus." I agree. There is
not a
>scintilla of anti-Semitism to be found anywhere in this powerful film. If
>there were, I would be among the first to decry it. It faithfully tells
>the Gospel story in a dramatically beautiful, sensitive and profoundly
>engaging way. Those who are alleging otherwise have either not seen the
>film or have
>another agenda behind their protestations. This is not a "Christian"
film,
>in the sense that it will appeal only to those who identify themselves as
>followers of Jesus Christ. It is a deeply human, beautiful story that will
>deeply touch all men and women. It is a profound work of art. Yes, its
>producer is a Catholic Christian and thankfully has remained faithful to
>the Gospel text; if that is no longer acceptable behavior than we are all
>in trouble. History demands that we remain faithful to the story and
>Christians have a right to tell it. After all, we believe that it is the
>greatest story ever told and that its message is for all men and women.
>The greatest right is the right to hear the truth. We would all be well
>advised to remember that the Gospel narratives to which "The Passion"
is so
>faith-full were written by Jewish men who followed a Jewish Rabbi whose
life
>and teaching have forever changed the history of the world. The problem is
>not the message but those who have distorted it and used it for hate rather
>than love. The solution is not to censor the message, but rather to
>promote the kind of gift of love that is Mel Gibson's film making
>masterpiece, "The Passion." It should be seen by as many people as
>possible. I intend to do
>everything I can to make sure that is the case. I am passionate about "The
>Passion."
>

>

>
>"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take...but by the
>moments that take our breath away!"