With the current Administration as it is and politics as they are, here is my educated GUESS as to how this national entanglement will play out.

Feds acquiesce and, in conjunction with the border states,full state's border's fences,however sufficient, will be built with the feds providing near ample military resources to assist in enforcing the borders.

Feds provide funding for state military entities to enforce the borders,as well.

Enlarged enforcement efforts and increased penalties against US employers who hire illegals.

A scenario, similar to Bush's pathway to citizenship for illegals already inside the US,will be argued for and against for months and will become law before November 4th or a stronger version of Bush's proposed plan will became law by June of next summer.

As I said, it's my educated guess so don't shoot the messenger.

How do you folks read it?

I don't see it that way at all. What I see happening is the administratio prohibiting ICE to remove any illegals that are picked up as a result of this new law and thereby nullifying the effects of the law. I also forsee litigation between the feds and AZ over the legality of the law. This administration is far too concerned about the hispanic vote to acquiesce to AZ. just my opinion.

I think you're wrong Bob...
The next bit of "change" we'll get forced down our throats or up our asses will be amnesty which will in all likelihood include language to streamline & expedite legal immigration...
It's the only way he'll get the votes for reelection in 2012.

The dems at the federal level are already licking their chops. They see this as a golden opportunity to put reform on the headlines, even though they don't have the votes to actually pass it. That way, they can point to the latino voters come november and say "look, we're trying, we need more time"

The Feds will fight it tooth and nail.

For whatever reason, the leadership of both political parties want this country flooded with illegals.

Lindsey Graham is the point man for the GOP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dUvVcBQFU

All of the Western Border States should jump on board with AZ and make the Government have to honor the immigration laws. The Dem's could care less about the crime problems that follow the illegals in this country all they want is their vote and to stay in power. AZ law enforcement will pick them up and the Fed Government will turn them loose. The Obama Administration will tie this law up in court as unconstitutional

Right now,I'd settle if Texas would initiate a Bill similar to Arizona's and ante up the pressure.

Texas needs to jump on this....would need a special session of the legislature, but it would ratchet up the drama before November.

I see the Obama's response as lawsuits, injunctions and fed grand juries investigating the violations of the wets' civil rights. And a call for accelerated consideration of comprehensive amnesty legislation to get the illegals eligible to vote by 2012.

he feels nothing for the real Americans whose lives and livelihoods are being destroyed by the invasion, or the impending bankruptcy of the border states. his sympthies are completely with the invaders.

So far, I'm getting my ass kicked in the educated guess department.

Best call in a bet!

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Rick Perry to do anything which will buck the Republican leadership.

They've demonstrated that they're in favor of amnesty, and Perry is trying to get his foot in the D.C. door.

you need to stop reciting RP talking points and look at what Perry has been doing.....he's ridden the immigration issue from the cellar to reelection.

We'll see

The feds will fight it tooth and nail, as already mentioned both parties want to claim the votes. I think the only way it won't be put down would be if all the border states jumped on the bandwagon with Arizona and stood firm, but the chances of that happening are slim to none.

Personally I think theres a much better solution to getting rid of all the illegals - announce across the country that all illegals have 60 days to beat feet back across the border, after that 60 day grace period we're going to issue unlimited hunting licenses for illegals at a cost of $10, with no bag limits. I would imagine that would be the end of our illegal immigration problem.

I'm inclined to agree with you, though I see where B is coming from. I distrust Gov. Goodhair, but he is a naked opportunist who has seen the light of the new populism. He is practically a Tea Partier already. Look for Jerry Brown to do the same thing. He has always shown both a populist and, dare I say it, "mavericky" streak. They are both wildcards in the border fiasco.

I think if there is any real enforcement on the border, it will have to be the states or locals that do it and it will be over the Feds most stringent objections.

http://www.thepatriotcaucus.net/gro...rick-perry-lies-about?xg_source=activity

"Again this week, Rick Perry is lying about his programs to give grants and in-state tuition to illegal aliens," says Debra Medina. "In 2001, Rick Perry signed the nation�s first law giving in-state tuition preferences to illegal aliens 1. After lying to the state live about it during the Belo debates, he�s lying about it again this week in his answer to the Fort Worth Star Telegram voter�s guide."

"Rick Perry�s program (HB 1403, 2001)2 not only violates federal law by giving preferential tuition treatment to illegal aliens, it gives cash grants to those same illegal aliens, while Texans and Americans have to scrimp to pay the continuously rising costs of college education," said Medina.

"Last week, Perry slammed the federal government for costing Texas money by not protecting the border, 3 but Rick Perry has made it clear; pandering to illegal aliens and growing government is more important to him than being responsible with the money of Texas taxpayers," Medina said.

You talking 10 years ago?

If she says so, it must be true. Right?

I agree that the feds will try to block this, but AZ will continue to enforce their law. As things roll through the courts, other states will pass resolutions in support of AZ or enact their own laws with similar language. AZ will build a tent and concertina wire holding facility and when the feds refuse to deport, they will strengthen the border and send them back south across AZ's border. Then AZ will make it a felony with 10 years jail time and seizure of all assets if anyone deported returns to that state. The illegals will then stay out of AZ once deported and flock to CA and other liberal states.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think ten years ago, Dubya was Governor of Texas and Goodhair was Lt. Governor.

How can the fed resist the new AZ law by claiming illegality when it mirrors fed laws already on the books?

They will claim that only the feds have a right to enforce immigration law.

Sad to say but that is the only approach. Run them out of your state, just like Oklahoma did a couple of years ago.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/120706dntexperry.e08679.html

AUSTIN � Gov. Rick Perry sharply criticized several immigration proposals Wednesday, saying "divisive" ideas � such as a wall along the border, cutting off public education for illegal immigrants and taking away "birthright citizenship" � should give way to "real solutions."

Rick Perry is very slippery on the illegal immigrant issue.

He tries to talk a good game, but like I said,..he'll never buck the feds with anything more significant than lip service.

Your attacking it from the wrong end. Ten year felony for hiring illegals, NO EXCUSES!!!

The Dems presently own the Hispanic vote & want to add the illegals to the party. They will fight at least as hard to provide amnesty for illegals as Health Care & probably win. The Republicans want in on a share of the Hispanic vote & will provide lip service, but no concerted effort to prevent amnesty. Arizonians will have their law to convict illegals rules unconstitutional. There will be many changes to the amnesty bill & it may not pass before November. If the Republicans gain control of the House & get gains in the Senate its just possible that public opinion may then effect their effort to oppose amnesty. It's all about votes & control & sadly not whats best for America.

It's easy enough to check.

Plenty of laws on the books that contradict each other. We are no longer under the rule of law anyway, because that is what you do. We are under the rule of "clique" which is who you are as opposed to what you do.

Fine.
Deport them to DC.

==============

You're doing better as that was only 4 years ago.

New ballgame now,my friend!! Can you find something fresh?

I hope so,..but Rick Perry isn't "fresh".

He's the old message in a new package.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mNDHTfdn1A

They already have an abundance of feral humans. One only has to drive through most parts of DC to experience what building breeding pens(low rent or no rent apartments), welfare, food subsides & other welfare related programs have accomplished. Even just driving through many areas is a risk if you don't belong. I have many black & Hispanic friends that have educations, good jobs, great families, & they will not drive there either.

Bristoe and Hawkeye are still carrying a torch for that psycho bitch.....it must be a troofer thing.

Republicans win majorities in House and Senate this fall, then close the money tap to everything the Big "O" has passed so far. Those programs die, and no new ones get jammed down our throats. In 2012 the Big "O" goes the way of the of Jimmy Carter. Problem solved.

Can't speak for Hawkeye, but Brewer is on my "good folks" list now, also.

I guess you bolsheviks think she's a "psycho bitch" too, eh?

Steve much as I hate to say it Bristoe has points. What Perry says and what Perry does is two different things. Lots of lip service and not much really hard nose do anything. He has his eyes on more than Texas and after whipping Hutchinson so easy it has given him hope on the national level. False hope I think but hope and he knows he can't do diddly w/o mex vote.

Now if Bill Flores beats Chet Edwards (doable but hard) Perry may think he has a chance. Flores ain't spanish despite the the name but he may fool some people. There is no chance against the south Tex Mexicans like Reyes, Rodriguez and Hinososa but Perry may think there is.

I wish he would jump on the deal with AZ but doubt he really will do anything but talk. I sure as hell don't expect CA to do any thing as Mexico has got Southern California already. At least I think it has.

BCR

Perry can just simply be put in the position of signing or vetoing the Bill. He then does either at his own peril.

People just hate to find out that I'm right.

I've never really understood that.

It's more of a shock factor in light of the infrequency.

I didn't say you was right sonnie boy, don't put words in my mouth, I said you had points.

BCR

Now that's *real* funny coming from you.

Your lost bets have created a nationwide bullet shortage.

Your lost bets have created a nationwide bullet shortage.
=========

Not for the guys that won!

I won't say that I'm *always* right,...but I'm always right about the things I bother to discuss.

,..and they're correct.

Facilities being set up along Arizona/Mexico border to deport illegals-

I think you left out the federal government will see this as an excuse for a national ID. (hope not)

Sycamore

Like our Social security number?

Bob:

It's like putting up a new traffic light at a dangerous intersection. A certain number of people have to be killed or injured before the city spends the money.

If, in the next couple of months, a couple more ranchers are murdered, if severed Mexican heads start showing up on the US side of the border, there will be a better, more vigorous response from Washington.

But if the drug cartels cool things down a little, until the November elections are over, the Washington response will be more along the line of foot-dragging than anything else. Unarmed troops on the border to assist a temporarily increased Border Patrol. More useless fences. Unmanned drones. That kind of thing.

I would expect certain Washington persons to be contacting certain Mexican persons with contacts in the cartels in the hopes of arranging that very thing. Of course, who can rely on drug criminals? Anything can happen.

- Tom

Ranger...Perry is clearly a political animal. But right now he's riding the immigration horse pretty strong, and that stance helped get him reelected. don't see him changing, given the way the wind is blowing on the issue.


Bristoe is occasionally correct, although very rarely about politics. About as accurate as a stopped watch...twice a day.

But for FALs, motorcycles, cadet Martinis, or likkah....I rely on his judgments.

The only reason you choose to debate me so vehemently is because you know I'm right.

You just don't like it.

Bob
Your original hypothesis might have played out in a world of normalcy. Sadly, those days are gone for at least a while.

But I'm not unique,...just slightly ahead of the curve.

More people are becoming "right" by the minute.

no, I already gave her an attaboy.

I've never understood the 'Civil rights' argument when it comes to those that aren't US citizens. I don't give a flying [bleep] about anyone's civil rights that isn't a US citizen.

Yeah,..just like me,.,.you're also aware that Rick Perry is in the process of positioning himself as the next neocon golden boy,...and just like me,..you know that he's going to form a campaign strategy that tries to tap into the populist sentiment of the tea party bunch while holding onto the warmongering rhetoric of the neocons.

The Obamination and Feds will hit Arizona from every which way, while using it to their advantage for immigration reform. [bleep] all those illegals marching in our country. Time for a mined DMZ and 50 cal towers every 100 yards.

I doubt if Perry has any future beyond Texas....although he clearly has such ambitions.


Texans aren't historically big on surrenders, either.

It is all about the vote . Both parties are trying to play nice guy for the votes of the Mex. 11,000,00 votes are a lot of power.

The bolsheviks at The Weekly Standard don't agree.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/2012-watch-srlc-straw-poll-edition

it's pretty lame to call the neocons who whipped Russia and bolsheviks, B. just sayin'


the current real bolshies would give their left nut to have RP in the White House.

lol,...hardly,..since he called them out and had it entered in the congressional record.

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm

They agree with Trotsky on permanent revolution, violent as well as intellectual.

They are for redrawing the map of the Middle East and are willing to use force to do so.

They believe in preemptive war to achieve desired ends.

They accept the notion that the ends justify the means�that hardball politics is a moral necessity.

They express no opposition to the welfare state.

They are not bashful about an American empire; instead they strongly endorse it.

They believe lying is necessary for the state to survive.

They believe a powerful federal government is a benefit.

They believe pertinent facts about how a society should be run should be held by the elite and withheld from those who do not have the courage to deal with it.

They believe neutrality in foreign affairs is ill advised.

They hold Leo Strauss in high esteem.

They believe imperialism, if progressive in nature, is appropriate.

Using American might to force American ideals on others is acceptable. Force should not be limited to the defense of our country.

9-11 resulted from the lack of foreign entanglements, not from too many.

They dislike and despise libertarians (therefore, the same applies to all strict constitutionalists.)

They endorse attacks on civil liberties, such as those found in the Patriot Act, as being necessary.

They unconditionally support Israel and have a close alliance with the Likud Party.

I'm not talking about RP's ravings, I'm talking about the champagne corks popping in the Kremlin and Beijing if a surrenderist worse than Obama became CINC of the US armed forces.

Tell it, comrade!

I hate ta break it to ya,...but many of your fellow travellers are fallin' by the wayside!

some people have to learn the same lessons over and over


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZHpprf6HSM

McCain to Obama: Send troops to border if you don't like new immigration law
By Ian Swanson - 04/24/10 09:06 AM ET
President Barack Obama should dispatch National Guard troops to the border if he doesn�t like Arizona�s new immigration law, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said Friday.

McCain, who endorsed the tough new Arizona law earlier this week, defended it as necessary because of the federal government�s inability to secure the border.


�If the president doesn�t like what the Arizona Legislature and governor may be doing, then I call on the president to immediately call for the dispatch of 3,000 National Guard troops to our border and mandate that 3,000 additional Border Patrol [officers] be sent to our border as well,� McCain said at a news conference Friday in downtown Phoenix, according to a report in the Arizona Republic.

�And that way, then the state of Arizona will not have to enact legislation which they have to do because of the federal government�s failure to carry out its responsibilities, which is to secure the borders.�

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signed legislation Friday that allows police to stop and question anyone they believe may be in the country illegally.

Brewer�s signature immediately set off a firestorm of criticism from Hispanic groups, who say the new law will infringe upon the civil liberties of people who are citizens of the United States or who are in the country legally.

Phoenix�s Democratic mayor has threatened to sue the state, and other groups are looking at economic boycotts of Arizona.

Hours before Brewer offered her signature, Obama criticized the effort as �misguided� and said it �threatened to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans, as well as the trust between police and their communities that is so crucial to keeping us safe.�

McCain has twice been involved in legislative efforts to boost border security while creating a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, but has taken a hard turn this year and is talking almost exclusively about security.

The reason is the tough primary challenge from former Rep. J.D. Hayworth, who on Friday criticized McCain in his own reaction to Brewer�s decision.

�As John McCain and others serving in Washington have alternated between inaction and amnesty, Arizona acted decisively today to enforce the rule of law and truly secure our border,� Hayworth said in the statement.

The fight in Arizona seems likely to put immigration reform on the Senate�s agenda, though it is unclear if any legislation can make it through the chamber as both parties eye the 2010 midterm elections.

McLame is trying hard to salvage his Senate seat, so he can compromise and sell us out for another 6 years.

On Greta Susteren (sp?) the other night, McCain was even trying to make nice-nice withe NRA. He must be running for his life. Too soon old and too late smart.

Watch the NRA endorse him....

And, prove just as many points about them, as it does about him.

I thought that at the time.

---------------------

Yep...the 180s have been a bit transparent. His lead of 4 pts has him a bit worried,I'm sure.

Feds will use this as an accuse for amnesty, thousands more will come, them the AZ will be overturned by the 9th.
Win-win for the democrats. They may not get them all registered by Nov 2010, but you can bet they will there by 2012.

Who has control over a state's national guard when functioning within the state? Seems if the AZ gov called em out they would perform with purpose. On the other hand if the Fed sent in the guard they would twiddle their thumbs.

you're right....if it's a state callup, the governor, though the state adjutant general, commands them. if it's a federal mobilization, the feds call the shots.

if immigration is still the number one issue at primary time, McC is toast. this is his worst issue.

I see it happening like you said only more sinister.
Legislation will be drafted now behind closed doors. (so much for transparency).
After it becomes clear which border state has a Senator or Governor in trouble with voters that is owed a kickback then there will be a border incident.
An illegal will be victimized.
Obama will save the day with immigration reform that includes voter registration.
The Senator whose vote was bought will get an influx of newly registered democrats.

If the state calls them up, the Obamanation will nationalize them. Bet on it.

Don't let this man be forgotten



Border Rancher Rob Krentz And Dog Found Shot To Death After Aiding Illegal Alien
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/003355.html

that would be the ploy.....he couldn't do anything about the state and county police though. which could set up some interesting confrontations.

this could set up a reaction to Obama which would make the brouhaha over socialized medicine look tame.

If the feds go against Arizona, I don't expect AZ to roll over. Other states will join and the game is on. We live in interesting times.