Consistency vs. Accuracy in shooting a rifle!



I'm curious, which one is more important and why? Also, when you guys/gales go to the rifle range what is your No. 1 objective or goal ? And does anyone here know of any techniques to observe someone that might be flinching or pulling the rifle anticipating the recoil?

Man I hate those lynched rifles. It kills the resale value.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I know what you mean. I as soons as they are lynched, they are never the same.

Had a guy try to sell me one that was lynched. Could tell right away by the rope marks on the stock. (stretched it pretty bad BTW) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Tony

They're never the same after they've been lynched. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, give me a 1.5-inch rifle that maintains zero over a .5-inch rifle that wanders every time.

Of course, with Mr. Sisk you can have both. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Rick

Damn, are the Regulators riding again?

Okay , maybe this is the way the words spelled "flinching " LOL

aren't the regulators cartoon heroes on saturday mornings? or are they the top-selling laxatives?
so old ... memory going fast ... help ... meeeee <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My, a mind is a terrible thing to lose!

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

-FreeMe

Don't worry T ... I'm sure they'll return it once it is found! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The lunatic is in my head
The lunatic is in my head
You raise the blade, you make the change
You re-arrange me 'til I'm sane
You lock the door
And throw away the key
There's someone in my head but it's not me

Regarding the linching. This is a method we used when I shot competitively with the Marines in a much earlier life. I guarantee it will point out even the most minor forms of linching. I think most shooters do not believe they flinch but this test has proved a lot of them wrong.



Go to the range with a buddy. Have the buddy load your rifle but have them either put a round into it or not put one into it. When you pull the trigger you will know immediately, no one needs to tell you, it will be obvious. A lot of people are very surprised that although they knew the gun may not be loaded, they still flinch. Flinching is involuntary and can be detrimental even if it is just your eye blinking, but most at least do a hard squint.



In todays magnumania a lot of guys are shooting too big of a gun. Their reply is usually something like "well I shoot an elk every year" or "you never feel it when you are in the field." This is just a defensive response because the flinch is in anticipation of the shot not as a reaction after the shot. You are gonna flinch even if the gun didn't go off.



I deal with customers from all over the world. If I get along with a certain group particularly well I will take out on my farm to let them experience some of our American freedoms.



What I find is that many of the American hunters flinch while many of the much smaller asians do not initially. The asians, never having shot a gun, have not developed this involuntary reaction to the anticipation of the shot. They say Wow! after the shot but if they shoot without a round, there is no flinch.



Going through this practice is also a superb way of eliminating a flinch. In the military we did it on about a weekly basis to ensure that no one on the team was developing a flinch. You should be able to pull the trigger and not even blink keeping the target in focus regardless of the recoil.

oh, so it's flinch! isn't that a kind of small bird? i like birds. they are pretty. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We don't have any Flinches here, lots of Grackles and Buzzards though. Few Scrub Jays as well. OH and a wandering Pileted Woodpecker time to time.

'Go to the range with a buddy. Have the buddy load your rifle but have them either put a round into it or not put one into it. When you pull the trigger you will know immediately, no one needs to tell you, it will be obvious. A lot of people are very surprised that although they knew the gun may not be loaded, they still flinch. Flinching is involuntary and can be detrimental even if it is just your eye blinking, but most at least do a hard squint."

Tundragriz

That's the exact same technique my dad used to help see if we were flinching, and it absolutely works. This also is the reason why those who practice dry- firing as a way to improve their skills with trigger pull, don't realize they're giving up an important edge. And that is to believe, think and handle the weapon as if it's always loaded. Everything else is just good commonsense.

pileated woodpeckers certainly can make a racket with their hollering back and forth to one another.

speaking of woodpeckers, was woody woodpecker a pileated one or something else?

I don't know about Woody, but the first time this sucker hit my alum. soffet I thought it was a Ma Deuce being fired!

Hey T Lee, in another discussion you were saying something about yourself being some kind of expert at long-range distant shooting and that very well could be the case. There's one thing for sure if you can using open sites place three consecutive shots at a 100 yard target that can be covered with a nickel, I'll certainly bow down. Although there is something you might want to consider , one of the tools I invented was named AccuMark and if anyone puts that word in a search engine at Yahoo this web site will pop-up. LOL



http://www.weatherby.com/rifles/mag_accumark.shtml

I've used a nasty, multiple-dirty version of the classic "is it loaded?" ruse to show whether a shooter flinches:
� I let 'em see me load a full magazine in my .458 Winchester Magnum.
� I chamber and fire Round One and eject the spent case.
� I hold the next round down and close the bolt on an empty chamber.
� I put the safety on.
(I do both these last two dirty tricks surreptitiously, of course.)

Then I hand the rifle to the unsuspecting friend and let him "shoot." If he flinches (as they almost always do with my .458 after they've seen it rock me backward), it's obvious to everybody.

"Oh!" I say, "The safety's on."

I take the rifle, put the safety OFF, and hand it back.

--- and yes, even after his flinch has been dramatically revealed to everyone present, he flinches just as badly the second time, when he drops the striker on an empty chamber.

It's a dirty technique, but no one continues to insist that he never flinches.

(But it's not nearly as nasty, guys, as your snotty replies ridiculing a typo in friend Larry's original lead post -- if I'd made a big deal of your typos, you'd be like the ant that chose the wrong time to run around the near rim of the urinal.) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ken's right, as usual.

I've noticed a change in the tone of larrymartin's posting over the last few days. If he's gotten the message, I say we cut him some slack and see how he handles it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Otherwise Ken gets to correct all our grammatical errors, and this place goes belly up. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Rick

larrymartin I try to get to our local range, Ben Avery, about twice a week this time of year; soon it will be too hot to enjoy most sessions. Two objectives are constant, one is load development for whatever is the current project or trying some new components and the other reason is to practice.

My off hand shooting accuracy is less than I desire. I've used some cast bullets in 270, 06 and 338WM, mild loads that help me get the routine of getting on target and trigger discipline mastered. It has helped and I can fire far more rounds per session than with my normal hunting loads. Then, out come a few handguns and practice resumes with off hand for accuracy, then presentations and rapid fire.

As much as I enjoy reading the gun magazines and sit around thinking about the next project or acquisition, nothing has been more valuable for me than practice. Practice.

A fate worse than a death sentence for Ken! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> So please have mercy, guys!

Ken,

Thanks, I really do appreciate some of things you pointed out in this discussion that some might take for granted, and that's their God-given talents to spell and use proper grammar. The good Lord gave all of us certain gifts , but for some reason I've never been able to find mine in that department and although I've struggled the best part of my life with that issue. I have been blessed with some pretty good mathematical skills. One in particular is the skills or talents of having the ability to visualize three-dimensional and applying it to different things. For example, to understand what makes a good marksman is practicing with open sites, accuracy is only a matter of adjusting the scope. My No. 1 objective or goal when going to the rifle range is to place three consecutive shots at hundred yards using open sites that can be covered with a quarter. To do this everything needs to be taken into consideration, breathing ,trigger pull and the ability to block out everything including the anticipation of recall and stay totally focused. I always shoot groups of threes because in my opinion shooting is about consistency not accuracy.

Rick, I was born at night, but NOT last night. I will continue with the ignore feature thank you very much.

Hey T Lee,

My wife carries a Winchester Ranger Youth 243 model 70 and last time we were at the rifle range. She using a scope placed three consecutive rounds that could be covered with a quarter at 100 yards . BTW, that particular day the wind was blowing about 30mph. At the time there was approximately 10 other hunters there that couldn't believe their eyes. I'd put her up against you anytime. LOL

T:



Did you send me back my pair of hip boots, it's getting higher and deeper in here. I think I'm grasping for my first ignore on this site but I'm blinded by the......well, let's just say it ain't light.

Yessir, I sure did, I now have a pair of chest waders! I am tempted to turn off the ignore as I am getting bored with some folks always posting the same thing. You know [color:"red"] "*** You are ignoring this user ***". [/color]

Mr Martin has become quite civil and seems to post valid experience.

Really?

I's tells ya..!

hey all
you guys are a scream.

Bearbeater

Thats what I thought.

I'm not sure about needing "chest waders" ,but probably unlike the majority of city sectors here. I grew up with three other brothers on a farm in western Maryland and guns were a part of our everyday lives. Not to mention the ability in knowing how to use them correctly. We didn't start using scopes until the middle 70s, and up until that point everything was with open sites. It would be nothing to practice our shooting skills anytime we pleased.

You haven't learned or changed after all, have you, Larry? It's time you shut up with the *&^%$#@! attitude if you're incapable of shedding it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Is "LOL" your "X" signature for "li'l ol' lady?" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey Ken, is he bad mouthing me, do I need to turn off the ignore?

Fret thee not, T. Continue to ignore, as I shall from now on.

A word to the unwise is a waste.

From time I entered this form this Guy T Lee has been busting my ass along with a few others here, but you?re right in time to keep quiet.

Ah so, the grasshopper shall listen to the Master. Thank you Sir.

BTW, is that the same as it is unfair to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person?

As the younger Chief Joseph would surely say here, from where the sun now stands, I will read this thread no more forever.

OK. I tried. There is no hope. Back to ignore.

The wolf in sheeps clothing worked again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"Ah so, the grasshopper shall listen to the Master. Thank you Sir.

BTW, is that the same as it is unfair to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person?"

All,

With all do respect to everyone here including Ken, I don't recall of ever asking anyone to read this discussion. And to suggest another person should ignore someone is probably the most childish thing I've ever come across. It must've been the "city sectors's" referents grasshopper. LOL

i'm tellin' ya, he's getting these topics from a book or magazine to try and make himself look real. i just don't understand that stuff. it's just like a fella over on AR, except that guy even faked pictures. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Who's that?

Well I had to un-ignore you just to see what all the fuss was about. Big mistake, but here we go.




I have never claimed to be a long range shooter, EVER. I have always hunted in the dense cover of places like the UP of Michigan and around the Carson National Forest in New Mexico. My longest shot IIRC was 68 yards on an Elk up in the Sangia de Christo's. One shot stop with a CVA Plains rifle. BTW, thats all the shots you get with one of those.

At 100 yards with open sights when my eyes were still young I could put 3 shots into about 2 inches, best I ever recall doing. I call it "minute of deer".

As too your link, I am truly amazed, I always thought Roy Weatherby was the force behind the rifles that bear his name.



First, she must really be a great shooter, my congrats to her fine shooting ability. You on the other hand I believe are so full of BS I wonder how she puts up with you!
I really don't think either her or my wife would be pleased if you PUT her up AGAINST ME! I am sure she is a lovely lady, but I will remain faithful to my wife of 40 years thank you very much.



Larry, you expell enough BS for us to need SCUBA gear, not just boots! I grew up in northern Illinois near the Wisconson border on a farm. Got my first rifle (a Winchester 62-A that I still have BTW) when I was 6. I spent as much time in the woods as I did in school, or possibly a bit more, wild game was common fare on our table Sir. We even took our shotguns and rifles to school in season and kept them in the cloak room so we could hunt on the way home, so don't even go there nimrod.
I doubt MD is as big as some of the areas I have hunted over the years, I know it's not as big as the UP of Michigan!


Yep, and I will continue busting your phony azz if I want the entertainment also. What did you expect when you arrived and imediatly tried to make out you were some kind of expert on hunting and military rifles as well as being the only one with a valid opinion because you were drafted? You are delusional at best and possibly belong in an institution at worst. You may just be whizzed off that I canned you from my little site as soon as you posted you phony BS there, and it's just a gnat compared to this fine place.

You are absoluty correct Sir, you need to keep quiet, especially around most of these guys, you might actually LEARN something. I know I have over the past couple of years!



You thrive on the attention troll otherwise you would read learn and make some Intelligent contributions to a discussion. I have broken my own Cardinal rule by feeding you like this. I just had to vent though, as I have not had to ever put anyone on ignore aside from the multiple personalities of Hardin/gunkid/agree before you showed up. AND I GUESS I SHOULD HAVE LEFT YOU THERE.

You are now relegated back to ignore status, have a nice life.

C'mon Terry, watch you BP.

No need to get excited about this stuff.

Matt, I took a double dose of Hyzarr this morning in preparation, I actually read his excretment last night. I apologize for the rant, but just had to.
Ken, I apologize in advance for the spelling and poor sentence structure Sir.

No, you rant's just fine. Just don't get too upset about Larry.
I treat it with humor when I see BS, and fishing stories come to mind, as if by magic.
When he writes something half-way respectable, without BS or delusions of grandeur, I get tempted to reply with something likewise.

Upset I ain't, tired of his BS I am. Now if the damn wind will lay down I will go over to Okeechobee this weekend and do some real fishing.

I'll try to get some lake fishing in this weekend, but primarily, I's going Turkey huntin'!

First time.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Never have done the Turkey thing, mostly just raised em. Lots cheaper, 'sides they are usually smarter than I am! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

T Lee,

If I misunderstood in the other discussion your claim of challenge to both our shooting skills , and without going back and doing research under ( my son collects assault weapons) , I am man enough to admit when I'm wrong, and if that's the case have no problem making a formal public apology.

As to my wife's skills in shooting, she is an excellent shot. The fact is most women are and my sister-in-law Carol can also handle a rifle just as well.

BTW, I've never claimed to be an expert on anything other than my military DD214 says at one time I qualified with an expert status. As to hunting , there again I'm no expert although I do have a lot of experience in that area and truly love the sport.

"Yep, and I will continue busting your phony azz if I want the entertainment also. What did you expect when you arrived and imediatly tried to make out you were some kind of expert on hunting and military rifles as well as being the only one with a valid opinion because you were drafted? You are delusional at best and possibly belong in an institution at worst. You may just be whizzed off that I canned you from my little site as soon as you posted you phony BS there, and it's just a gnat compared to this fine place."

"You are absoluty correct Sir, you need to keep quiet, especially around most of these guys, you might actually LEARN something. I know I have over the past couple of years!"

One more thing, I've never implied anywhere on this form that I couldn't learn from others here on the subject of hunting. But the fact is I won't be led around by some self-proclaimed professionals be it a writer or otherwise that make a profit feeding their egos in misguiding and misleading a novelist sportsmen looking for honest advice based on true experiences.

T Lee.



Considering you're applying I'm some kind of "phony" below is a link to my website and also an article that was written by (Rich Binsacca a freelance writer) about inventors.



The fact is, shooting is nothing more than applying trigonometry to your technique. Trigonometry, is nothing more than the steady of properties of functions and there applications. And here there are in no particular order.

Breeding -control

Alignment -open sites

trigger pull-squeezing



With the key always shooting in groups of 3



www.accutools.us



http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/articles/showarticle.asp?articleID=1703

I think breeding control is an excellent idea in your case.

I wish I had more breeding to control myself... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

oh well , it looks like I misspell another word.LOL LOL LOL

You guys should be able to agree on one thing, my spelling errors are sure consistent with the amount experts here looking for accuracy. LOL