is there any point any more? most people dont hand write most things, and those who do, most often print. is it really worth it to teach them how to do the same thing, just in a different way?

You ever signed your name?

Of course they should, proper cursive as taught in the 19th century. You know, the kind you can actually read!

Yes.


Travis

Imagine your kid's future employer.
Handing him / her this cryptic message.
Written on a legal pad, in ink.

they'll be happy they practiced this dying art form!

Huge waste of time for the most part. When they need it, they can pick it up in no time at all. Spending large amounts of time on it before then is a lot like trying to teach a pig to sing.

Cursive is one of the little bits of knowledge that is eroding away. You cannot just pick it up in no time, it is a skill, and as such, requires practice.

Might as well stop teaching basic math, since everyone has a calculator, right?

I don't see them as the same thing at all. To me, cursive writing is something "pretty" as opposed to manuscript, which is utilitarian. As for math, I am very much in favor of the basic facts, as well as the basic operations, being learned. Where I break with tradition is in that I believe that a reasonably intelligent person can pick up everything that heads are beaten against walls over for six or seven years in about a month when the person reaches an age and maturity level where he wants to learn it.

Why bother learning to read, what with TV and books on CD-ROM?

Again, reading is absolutely essential to further learning. Cursive writing is not.

Exactly!
Or count for that matter
The cash register at McD's does that for you!

Yes, they should plus math, reading, history, spelling, and English as a first language. All students should have a grasp of the basics before they graduate to the next grade.

I went to school for 20 years. The primary skill that I learned was to sit in a room full of people and formulate written answers to a set of questions without any collaboration with anyone else or any access to research or source material. I got very good at it, but the skill had no useful application in the real world.

My comic answer was going to be, "Only if they're not going to be doctors."

I still think it's important, although I am a self-proclaimed Luddite in many areas. Maybe it's best not to listen to me.

Penny

Yes, they should be taught cursive and are in the school where my wife works. It's a shame that kids today and going back probably sixty or so years, don't have the beautiful cursive writing and penmanship that my Grandfather's generation had.

Yes, children should be taught cursive. It is lazy people who prints everything! VAnimrod is right about signing checks and other important documents. And another reason is if you have any hopes of your kids ever going to medical school they will need to know how to scribble properly!

My issue isn't with the cursive writing instruction, but with teaching Spanish in 1st grade in a midwestern town with no spanish population base.

Or engineers.

Oh my. You developed your brain and your ability to reason and organize your thoughts and arguments. You learned the most effective way to express those things. How can that not have a useful application in the real world? The subject matter itself is of secondary importance to what you really learned how to do.

Here at my university we don't have a "pre-law" major per se, but tell students to major in what interests them, as the most important thing is for them to learn how to think, reason, and be articulate in what they produce. Writing well is also of the upmost importance. The specific law subject matter can be acquired in law school, where it is assumed that students at that point can already think clearly, reason, and articulate.

Penny

True. It's a shame that it's passing into history, but it's easier to print in the rare cases you need to write a note these days. Nobody writes papers, books, letters, etc., anymore. You type those on a keyboard, or text them on a cell phone. I've forgotten how to write some letters of the alphabet in script, it's been so long.

Actually, the specific law subject matter will be acquired mostly after law school.

Otherwise, exactly spot on.

A person who speaks two languages is worth two people. What a wonderful gift to give young children! This is the time when they will most easily pick it up. Even if they never have to use their knowledge of Spanish in future jobs, they will be able to speak with a whole segment of the world that they would otherwise not be able to speak with... even if it's just on a vacation.

Penny

Not to mention being able to pick up the other Romance languages much more quickly and easily, or even just understand them enough in print or conversation to get by.

Unfortunately, they're going to pick up curse words along the way, but I don't see why anybody thinks it should be taught in schools. That someone can even ask this question shows how far in a hole our society has fallen.

Can't think of a single time that I have needed cursive writing skills in any aspect of business. Math skills without a calculator? Absolutely. Cursive writing? Useless.

It's probably more important to teach them how to spell taught!

Same here. I have horrible handwriting to begin with, but the fact that I rarely have to write anything other than a few brief notes has made handwriting a real chore. Other than my signature, I have not used cursive in many years. Should I need something written "pretty", I have a wife for that.....

The wonders of a public education, on full display.

Well at least when I was in school, they didn't teach us things like that. Good grief. I mean, you obviously heard stuff, and necessarily did some cursive reading when it showed up in books, but actually teaching us kids to write it? That's nuts.

If you really think that's a good idea, then I think that says all I need to know. Especially paired with your "Romance languange" thing up there aways - do you think "Romance" and all that is something else that ought to be taught in schools?

I can't decide if you're really a brilliant tongue-in-cheek comedian, or someone who just doesn't have a clue. I think I'll opt for the first.

Cursive writing... I wish I'd have thought of that!

Penny

Exactly. Head scratching, at a minimum.

I certainly hope you're right, Penny. But, I have my doubts.

No. It's a waste of time.

yes... it's a big world. they will not always a keyboard

From reading previous post's by Pine Tree, I'm pretty sure opting for the first is a good call.

Yes, if there's any chance that for the rest of their lives, they might on occasion want to read their own scribbling.
(notes, grocery lists, to-do lists, check records, etc)

How to hold a pen or a pencil is worth teaching 'em, too.

If I was not taught cursive in school I would not be able to do my job. It requires that I am able to read historical documents, old deeds and government patents. All written in the old script style cursive. Without this skill the documents might as well be written in Japanese as I would be just as lost either way.

Example of a document

Cursive outdated?

Dang, next you'll tell me that my lp collection and typewriter are obsolete. Fortunately I still have my large collection of vhs and 8-track cassettes to see me through this crisis.

Actually, I do think that cursive is an important skill.

Just as all students should have a few years of music and team sports
If for nothing else, but to learn to practice and improve.

Only one in a million will ever NEED to swing a ball bat or throw or catch a foot ball
or play a trombone.

But its the learning experience.

As summer camp teaches one everything to get along.

Are we actually having this discussion? Honestly? I write something in cursive every single day. Whether it is signing a check, or making a note in the margin to my secretary. Really, can a person even be said to be literate if they can't read and write cursive script? I don't think so. And, granted, it's been going on two decades since I did any serious academic work, but I think they still give exams with Blue Books and pens nowadays. Good luck trying to answer a half a dozen essay questions in two hours writing in block script.

Honestly, I lament my lack of education, even though by today's standards in the United States, it is a pretty good one and I have an advanced degree. If there were any options short of sending my child to a boarding school I would make sure my child got a classical education and at least learned the rudiments of Latin, Greek, rhetoric, etc..

Anyone that doubts that there is a more or less conscious effort to dumb down our country should consider questions like this. Every electronic device or computer in the country could be more or less disabled at an instant on the orders of someone you've never seen, and then where would we be if we couldn't even write? We would be absolutely incapable of communication beyond the most rudimentary means.

Is that Sanskrit?

Taking notes in college is much easier if you can write in cursive. Laptops will work to take notes, but you cannot draw a diagram on a laptop. I enjoy it when another student tries to see what I've written and cannot read it. It's slightly comical. I've come to realize that the process of writing notes during lecture is part of the learning process. It is much easier and faster if you write in cursive.

Good points.

ironeagle84;
Yes, emphatically so there are many good reasons to learn it.

As mentioned, being able to take notes can be important for a student - or an investigator.

When the job I was performing required witnesses to be interviewed, handwritten notes were admissible in court/hearings but anything electronically done was not.

A decade or so back I was building fire fighting equipment that was fitted to helicopters. As we were in prototype stage, each step required notes and shop drawings so the recipient in Holland, South Africa or Japan could better trouble shoot if need be. I had a couple folks with engineering backgrounds tell me they'd never seen such "readable" shop notes before - and then they thanked me for writing in a manner they were able to decipher.

I've been involved in the cabinet business more on than off since '87 - with the year off building the helicopter stuff. In that while we certainly do have all the CAD stuff that does the 3D renderings, we still revert back to hand drawings when Mrs. Smith wants something just a little different than the catalog shows.

Oh and a photocopy of those drawings from the salesperson in Timbuckthree along with Mrs. Smith's side notes does accompany the factory work order, so I'm glad the two craftsman who do the custom work for us can at least read cursive writing!

I could go on, but hopefully I've made a case to continue to teach the next generation the ability to put thoughts down even in the event of a power failure.

Regards,
Dwayne

I think it should be taught, not only for practical reasons but also because it teaches dexterity and discipline: unlike typing where you can always delete or cut and paste, writing is tactile--it is real .

I feel for kids these days as so much in their world is virtual--and it is no longer prohibitively expensive for parents and schools to provide that virtual environment like it was in the 80s when I was growing up. Cursive writing, like manual wood working and metal working or any other skill where you must know how to use your hands forcefully but delicately, is worth knowing not only for its intrinsic value, but for the other values that one must cultivate to do so successfully.

My children will be taught cursive writing along with other skills some may see as "unnecessary and a waste of time".

Knowledge is power.

absolutely!

I think most parents would agree that the one thing we want most for our children is for them to have more than we had ourselves.
Removing basic knowledge items from their educational process such as proper writing technique is ridiculous.

Technological advances are hardly a reason to quit teaching the basics. Mathematicians need to know math without a calculator, and pilots need to know how to fly without a GPS and autopilot. Half these kids that are texting all day long hardly know how to spell the words they now commonly abbreviate.

The Smith Corona may now be a dinosaur, but learning to write properly is a necessity in communication.

I don�t know anything about *^%$#@!* cursive writing but I learned %&*%%$##** cursive speaking in the mother*&%^$!* Army. Only *&%^&*$ took me about two *$%^#!* days to learn.

Penmanship is a lost art these days. Try and read police officer's handwritten notes anymore is like hierogliphics 101. I remember losing marks on a Science exam in high school for spelling and neatness. Not the same world, but it should be.

A tough question. I would say depends on the what you gain and what you give up. If giving up cursive means all the kids will learn to keyboard by grade 4.. sounds like a trade that makes sense in today's world.

Back when I went to school, we learned some some out dated stuff like how to do calculations with logs etc, only a few years before they used slide rules. When I leaned how to do caluclations with logs, hand calculators had been cheap and common for 10 or more years.

As for math and arithmetic, while I agree kids should be able to do basic arithmetic, when I was in school we really went to 6 or 7th grade before we even got beyond arithmetic. While 50 years ago plowing through lots of arithmetic might have had some use, today there are calculators and spreadsheets and Id rather have folks who can figure things out with math rather than be a wiz at long division. That so many kids graduate high school without a full year of statistics is nearly criminal.

I can't imagine a world without a woman's hand writing. What a thing of beauty (usually), and further proof that man and woman are different. And yes, I'll admit to having probably been the inspiration for the Burt Reynolds film "The Man Who Loved Women."


What is the justification for dropping the handwriting requirement?

What do you do when the power goes out? "So sorry, but I can't write up that sales receipt because it will take 6 hours to write it in block letters, not to mention the 16 hours it will take to make change for you $20 bill, being as your purchase was only $19.98. Man, that's a bunch of fingers and stuff to count that much......"

Teaching hand writing is such a small part of an education. It is not time wasted.

Enough dumbing down of America.

Forgot to add:

I can not imagine a college classroom full of a bunch of clicking keyboards. I used to get annoyed walking down the hall past the typing classes.....

What kind of statistics course are we talking about? High school students don't seem to possess the level of mathematical maturity needed to develop more than superficial familiarity with statistics.

All you need to know about statistics in that you can't trust them.

I am thinking that is if starting students aren't learning cursive writing, what are they learning in that time frame? A hand written note in a pretty hand on a card cannot be reproduced.

Calculators and modern math have about replaced simple "in your head" math. My father had to quit high school as a sophomore. You could not even throw x's and y's at him, as he could not relate. But you could run a 560# calf across the scales at $.68 per # and he could tell you the total price within pennies in a New York minute.

If I were on a school board, cursive writing and multiplication tables would be compulsive for elementary students.

Maybe not at school but it would be a great progam for someone to start in the private sector. I think every kid should know it but I'm not sure the public school is the place to do it. kwg

Oh What the hell...The school system and people in general have succeeded in dumbing down school kids this far, why stop now. Heck, why even bother to force them to go to school? In some quarters we have become a Nation of 6th grade drop outs. Sad state of affairs when how can we lowering expectations becomes important.

many studies have shown that a developing brain attempting to learn a language does a pretty poor (and temporary) job of it by "reading only".

said brain does a slightly better (but not much) job of it by "reading and typing".

the act of manually forming the letters is what really "sets" the knowledge in long-term memory as well as leads to fluency.

-and you can transcribe the same paragraph about 4-5x faster in cursive than in block manuscript.

-if you have any designs on higher education, you'd better be able to write in cursive. I can guarantee you graduate level teachers lecture about 6x faster than you can write in block letters and your laptop battery will be dead long before they stop for air

Utah: You are right, I was in Architecture and Construction so I generally had to print for easy legibility. I was fast at it, but I could "cursive" write at leas twice as fast and still be legible.

No. The only purpose for "cursive" writing was to allow the quill to stay on the paper to avoid drips.

How many people write in cursive other than signing their name? I'm not against it but I'm guessing the last time I wrote in cursive was probably middle school.

Of course in my day we managed to learn how to write in cursive, do math, and speak/write english without cutting one of those out.

I don't know anyone who still writes in cursive but in the technical fields it's all print for legibility.

I always printed my notes, never having the benefit of a laptop. Never a problem. Cursive is mostly block letters with connectors, and gets very sloppy.

I have a masters degree and I never took notes in cursive.

A lot of people on this thread are equating lack of ability to write in cursive as some form of ignorance. That is not correct. The ability to write in cursive does not mean that one cannot read cursive language or write in block letters. I don�t have a problem with �intro to cursive� type stuff for third graders, but wasting time learning to how write things that �just look pretty� makes no sense to me. It makes about as much sense as a class in gift wrapping.

Hey, why teach 'em cursive. They've already scrapped the english requirements...... and math. Social studies consist of finding out ways to say blacks are better and whites are exploitive SOBs.
Going strong to the hole or having a nick name like "Bobby Light Shoes" is all that required to get a college degree.
One thing that most folks seem to have missed, learning cursive writing is another way to teach self decipline and good study habits.
If all of it's a waste of time, why not mail a packet to the parents at the first of the year containing the minimum requirements and depend on them to teach the kids. roflmfao

Cheyenne - very good points. The only thing that I take exception with is the introductory course for third graders. I spent seventeen years doing just that. The amount of frustration on the part of those who were not ready at that point in their lives was huge. As a mini-course (exploratory course - there are many different terms for the same thing) for older students, it could have some merit.

IIRC, as currently taught, it amounts to about 15 minutes a day of instruction for one or two grade levels.

"Printing" is to "cursive handwriting" as "speech" is to "song", give or take. Both are well worth whatever time it takes us to learn them, IMO.

wow. your handwriting is worse than I imagined. (grin)

A thought is a thought, however expressed. Art is in the eye of the beholder.