I was raised to stand up when a lady approaches a table, to offer my seat to any elderly folks or others needing a seat on a subway, open doors for women (both in buildings and cars), etc., etc. I'd wager most men here do too, but every day I see men with what I see is having no class. I can't remember the last time I saw a man picking up a woman in front of my building actually get out, take any bundles or bag from the woman, and open, then close her door.

Also, I was taught that when dropping of a woman, to wait and make certain she gets in the house/whatever before taking off. On a related note, the fact that common courtesy, civility and being polite is so rare. And before anyone mugs me, I've noticed it all around the country, not just in the Bean. I will say that the buddies I know from the south *consistently* have shown themselves to be gentlemen, and do themselves proud in this respect.

It annoys the freaking hell out of me, and I guess I see it as another indicator that in many ways, the US citizenry, the youth in particular, really have lost touch with some of the propern niceties in life.

I agree.

But I've also noticed more young ladies talking like sailors and picking fights with men...

Of course everyone thinks gangsta is "cool", even doughy looking kids.

Much easier things to do than getting smarter and finding a job I guess...

If chivalry is dead ...

Women killed it.

Not dead, just sickly.

The ACLU killed it .............

I believe the chivalrists like myself have have all went underground trying to avoid unforseen loophole lawsuits.

As an aside, once upon a time I worked at the Northeastern University Law School, proudly touted by many of its students and faculty as being the 'Queerest Law School in the Nation'.

I got a rude awakening the first month or so, the vicious looks and a few comments like, 'I can open my own damned door' from female students of the, um, gay persuasion. After that, I continued to do so at every single opportunity. It made some of them batshyte crazy with anger. A couple even wrote letters to the director, saying that I was insulting them and to knock it off. Thankfully, she was very nice, and told them that my opening doors for others was not against the law, or university policy. Tough darts there, Butch.

Agreed.

I don't think it's dead--------not around here anyway. I'm guessing it's partly a regional thing. I still act like my folks raised me, and don't give a tinker's dam if it's "uncool" or not. Considering what IS cool today, I'm trying pretty hard to avoid most of it!

Chivalry is not dead, but it is very difficult to feel any enthusiasm for gentlemanly conduct at this present point in time.

As an aside, I have a licker neighbour in her fifties that swears, drinks and smokes more than I do....she has a bigger gut, and her knuckles hang lower to the ground, what is more she is not as easy on the eyes as I am (I am a forty-six year old big, hairy arsed bloke)!

She may not have balls, but she most definitely has the scars to show where they were.

Good man.

Sorry, I was raised in the "old days", I still hold doors, don't cuss in front of ladies & little kids, remove my hat indoors, and stand for the ladies. Still use Sir & Ma'am & Mr., Miss & Mrs. till told to use first names. Being polite costs nothing and has many rewards.

I know 'modern ' wimens want to appear self reilant.
But I still see them smile at me when I open the car door for my wife.

My grandmother NEver worked a car door.
If someone drove her home from church and we didn't see her ... it was :
"Go release grandma from the car damn it! "

No it's not. I always get the car door for a woman, regardless if it's our first date or 500th. Always hold a door for a woman, but then I hold them open for men also.

I give up seats for them and assist them when the opportunity applies, most especially with the more elder.

Common decency applies to all sexes.

C'mon now.

I'm still holdin car doors for wimens.
And even the wife!

Fragile fragment of the former though I be, it's somewhat embarrassing to have someone else � especially a girl or woman � open a door or hold one open for me to struggle through. Challenging a chore though it be, I'm more at ease struggling to open it myself and my accurst blest walker.

Still druther make extra trips and drop stuff along the way than have a sweetie carry my groceries out to the pick-up for me.

Old druthers die hard.

Beautiful are the smiles and sweet the "Thank yous!" that I get from ladies who're gracious enough to wait patiently for me to wrestle doors open for them. Always deeply heart-warming for a decrepit ol' codger who was raised on that special Southern flavor of courtesy.

And there's no way to express the pang that a sweetie's comment shot through me a couple of days ago � "Oh! Your hands are soft!" (So sweet to hear, in days now so long gone � and still Oh! so sweet to remember now � "Oh! Your hands are warm!")

It ain't easy bein' senile, but it has its moments!

Forget feminazis. Modern ladies still appreciate "archaic" male courtesy.

+1
When I was a superintendent for a construction company,I had a woman for an architect on one job. We were going into the building and I opened the door for her. She said that I didn't have to do that for her. I said that that's the way my mother raised me, so get over it.

I practice chivalry. It doesn't matter if it is my Wife or some other female. Not only is it classy but it gives you an opportunity to 'glass' them a bit.

Back in the mid 70's, and being the properly raised 20 something that I was, I opened a door for a young woman in her mid thirties and was met with the comment "I can open my own GD door, haven't you heard of equal rights for women?" To which I responded. "does that mean I can kick the [bleep] out of you like I would a man if he talked to me that way?" She just rolled her eyes and walked through the open door. At that point I realized the damage had already been done and I should just focus on the "Free Love" residual benefit that came with "equality"...much easier to deal with...

I still hold doors and do the stuff I was taught at a very young age to do.

One of the worst cussings I ever stood and took happened when some "lady" at least she looked like a lady, informed me about how competent she was to open the door herself.

BCR

No amount of time will kill my objection to men wearing hats in a restaurant.

I wear a hat just about everywhere, I have two huge cowlicks that I can't stand.

but I always try to open doors for every lady I can.
I always offer my seat to a women or elderly person too.

I'll tell you what never happened - WOMEN taking up the challenge to act the way gentlemen did pre-Feminism. Example, when was the last time a woman held the door open for a man to let them go through? Hell, they won't even bother to hold the door that little smidgen extra after they've gone through to let the next person through easier, man or woman. Or given up a seat on the bus? - forget it.

Is chivalry dead?

No more dragons to fight. They never were common, but now they are all gone. Some women are evolved from dragons.

Bruce

it is alive and well in my little domain i have too sons that will also carry it into the future 13 and 9 they use yes sir and yes mam open doors and carry packages give up there seats on the bus for the elderly or female persons hell they even open and close the car door for me.

and belive me people do notice my boys get lots of praise from people.

Ever hear the Jerry Clower story about 'women libbers'? It goes right along with this thread and like most Jerry Clower, is pretty funny.

Not dead, but unfortunately not common. I hold the door open for women, children and men, common curtousy. Even my kids seem to have figured it out, and as another posted mentioned, folks notice and compliment them occasionally.

Earlier this year I was going to a parents meeting for an activity my daughter is involved in. I was following another parent into the building, couldn't have been more than a few feet behind him and he let the door shut in my face. I figured either this guy is oblivious to people around him, or figures he's too important to care about others. Turns out he was our previous mayor, so I was probably right on both counts.

I've noticed that big difference between men and women. Men will usually (not always but a majority of the time) look to see if someone is passing through the door right behind them and will hold it open, whether for a man or woman and whether the man or woman is junior or senior to them - just a common courtesy to any person.

The majority of the time a woman will open a door, walk through and let it swing shut without ever checking to see if someone is coming through close after them. If they are aware someone is behind them the rate seems to be about 50/50 for holding it open or just walking through.

Probably just sexually differentiated socialization learned at an early age.

I have been gittin doors for ladies of all ages all my life, not one has ever been rude, just nice smiles and thank you's.

Although I got kinda rude at a large funeral last summer when I had to tell a coupla 18-20? somethings to get up and give there seats to an old couple that could barely stand on there own....and yes I had already donated my seat, even though it was on pall bearers row.

Gunner

Last year I was on the tube in London... and the �car� was full.

An older lady came on and had to stand so I gave her my seat...

I was the only guy to offer.

So if it is not dead it is real sick


but Women may have killed it

Good on you, and them. And I too have gotten many comments, always positive, from women (especially women over 60) when opening and closing the truck door for my wife on the street. It's nice to see a smile and hear an old gal say something like, "I knew there still were some GENTLEMEN alive; well done!". I just wish the 18-35 crowd knew a lot more about having some class. But then I guess nothing can really substitute for a proper upbringing in that regard.

And good catch, Dennis. Sheeit. Who's he think he's BSing?

Common Courtesy as well

^Agreed.

If it is dead, the feminist movement should be your prime suspect.

Funny the women who killed it go on Jerry Springer to b!tch about it being dead.

I'm 28 and hold doors for a lot of woman. Did it 4 times yesterday in different stores when I was shopping. It really doesn't take any extra time, and I am normally not in that big of a hurry. Got a real nice smile out of one cutie yesterday because of it.

Saw my 23 year old son do the same,yesterday. It's not dead,it's simply tempered with PC which, of course, slowly kills it.

Be careful, that's how they snare ya!!

I don't know if what you're talking about is truly chivalry or merely manners. Most of those things you mention I do for guys, too. At the same time it doesn't bother me if a gal holds a door for me. Or another guy. What I do, what I expect guys or gals to do, is recognize a considerate thing was done, express appreciation ("thank you"), otherwise not make a big fuss, and just move on.

Tom

"Class" as you use it in this sentence (a societal level/station in life) is not derived from a proper upbringing, nor is it related to one's decorum.

Decorum (the conventions of polite behavoiur), decency, respect for others and ourselves comes from all walks of life, and is directly related to the teachings and examples set by those who reared and interacted with us during our formative years.

As for the 18 to 35 crowd, I have three children that fall into that category, and they are far from being without a sense of decorum, decency and respect for others and themselves. Don't wish anything more or less for them thank you.

Mind you they weren't raised to think themselves better than others, only better than those who prove by actions and words to be unworthy of their respect and friendship.

Lynn

Could not disagree more, and my meaning as written has absolutely nothing to do with a 'societal level/station in life' or any other socioeconomic or other random demographic. It's about my observations in dealing with thousands of the age group I refer to on an annual basis. Thanks for the input just the same, and I'm sure your children were raised right.

I try to treat everyone with common courtesy. Around here it is for the most part appreciated. In the instances that I do get rebuffed, I chalk it up to being their problem, not mine.

I'm soon to be 29 and do the same thing. Chivalry isn't dead, it's just no longer stylish and thus not propagated by the media.

I get what you're saying. Let's try to clarify with this scenario: a man and a woman are both carrying heavy bundles out of a grocery store. Both are struggling a bit and could obviously need a hand getting the stuff to their car. Do you help the man or woman (you can't help both)? I'd help the woman.

And there is no fuss. You open the door for others, but especially make an effort for a lady.

It ain't dead but it is dying, I see signs of it every day. I don't know how many times i've watched guys pull up to the gas pump at Freds and their woman friend gets out and pumps their gas for them. I even saw an elderly gent do the same thing the other day.

I open the door for my wife or my wifes female friends, not so much with strangers because nowadays, you just don't know how they will react. Occasionally I do slip up and will open a door for a someone I don't know and I usually get a polite thank you.

lhonda,

Do you consider yourself a person of proper behavoiur ?

If they don't like it slam the door in thier face.

Just kidding. I do this also but some of these "Amozon" women go crazy. Then when you don't your a schovanist(sp). can't win.

That's far too general of a question for me to answer, Miss Lynn.

Chivalry is alive and well with me. I have always held the door for ladies. When my wife and I walk I make sure that she is ahead when it's appropriate.

When we order the wife orders her food first.

Good topic.

===========

The man eats a schit load of fish and,on occasion,drinks like one. Seems A OK in my book!!

Then he's lucky man to have impressed you so well.

Brother, you ain't alone! And I also feel the same about men who wear hats or caps at the dining table. Ill mannered is ill mannered, no matter.

L.W.

My Grandpa would knock it off if you came to the table with it on.
Thanks for the smile of remeberence.

Absolutely and every time we eat dinner at home, my wife always plates up first and if we have guest over, same same. My wife always walks on the inside whenever we are walking around and I would bet a lot of men don't know why.

So she can shove ya into on coming traffic?

you bet it's dead! just watch teenagers and the 20-somethings. the leaders of tomorrow!!!!!!

Sometimes I can't tell the guy from the gal. No offense I just can't, so I wouldn't know who opened a door for whom if they did.

==============

Not all of them.

That's a pretty close guess.......

The big hat is costume (stage-wear, not garb) for country-western wailers. Consider it proper � professionally grafted there permanently. Which makes it doubly unsettling when wannaseem machos copy-cat 'em.



(BTW, LW, on another matter altogether � Kathleen Hite sure wrote a lot of the Gunsmoke episodes, didn't she? And Ron Bishop died 'way too soon.)

You're interacting with the followers of tomorrow, not the leaders.

I have spent years among young people and can attest that there are many great ones out there. Sadly, the actions of the others always dominate our attention.

I can attest to Leighton's kindness and generosity. I am glad to count him as my friend.

We must have run into the same female...


After I opened the door for this woman, she proceeded to berate me infront of a lobby full of people all the way through the lobby to the elevators. After getting in the same elevator an my way to my office, she finally stopped and asked why I would dare do such a thing. I told her that I didn't open the door because she was an incapable woman, but because I thought she could be a lady and gave her the benefit of the doubt...

5sdad,

Kindness and generosity are great traits in a person.

However, I was asking if "he" thought he was a person of proper behaviour. I was not aware that it was such a hard question to answer.

If you count him as a friend based on his kindness and generosity, then he is a lucky man, and I am sure you would think yourself also lucky.

Lynn

OK, I'll inquire, how would you define a person of proper behavior?

I was gonna ask that too.

Is it dead?

No � moribund � staggering, falling, but still alive.

Rare, getting rarer.

Still appreciated where appreciation is still worth something.

Yes, Ken, Kathleen Hite did write a lot for "Gunsmoke," plus other shows. Quite prolific. I met her once but can't say I knew her. Seemed very pleasant.

Ron Bishop and I were friends. Had a lot of fun together. He had a cabin and some land up n.e. of Cody, Wyoming. Ron asked me several times to come up and hunt elk with him, but I never, regretably, found the time to do it. Then it was too late as he died unexpectedly. It sometimes seems as if so much in life is "too late."

L.W.

You seem to have something of a grudge, for what reason I know not, but I'll properly respond to your question if you can properly phrase it. Am I person of 'proper behavior'? In *general*, most times, I think. Certainly not always. But I guess we need to come to an agreement of the definition of 'proper' first, unless you're just spoiling for a fight. If you can be more specific as to what exactly you're asking, I'll answer more specifically. That seems fair.

Not sure here, could be as far as eating with the proper fork as sophsticated do. Could mean just being a proper gentleman.
I believe you are from what I've read.

Hang all hats and caps on one of Papaws deer mounts in the hall, dirty boots and shoes left on the front porch, and dirty pant cuffs rolled up, wash-up and lets eat.

Mamaws rule #1

I was raised in the deep south, and some of it musta stuck...going to a coffee shop one morning, without even thinking I opened the door for a woman, and proceeded on in to place my order, right after she placed hers...
She steps right up and tells the Barista " I'm paying for his too..."


Why? I ask...

"Any man that'll hold the door open for me...I'm buying..."

" Did I do that...?"



Muscle memory I guess....

Nice images.

+1 to the comment made on ladies ordering first at restauarants.

lhonda,

My papaw spent 41 yrs. in the Marine corp 1940-1981 and retired as a Sargeant Major, that old gentleman still runs a pretty tight ship @92 yrs. of age.

Gunner

I hope you married her the next day!

Chivalry is not dead. I not only hold the door, I bow deeply and have been known to spread my cloak over puddles in the street so m'lady will not soil her delicate feet.







P.S. Chicks dig swords.

I still see plenty of it in the rural south aka dirty south.
I have even held open a door for a lady and then have her hold the second door, like in some malls, open for me.

Know why men open doors for ladies??

Even if I'm wearing my Packers coat?

lhonda,

I hold no "grudge" against you in any way shape or form.

As for properly rephrasing my question, I meant, "do you consider yourself properly behaved as in your actions, words, and behaviour as a "Man"/"Gentleman" ?

However, after having taken the time to consider my query, I realize it was an unnecessary question to pose to you. As you have so aptly shown me the answer here on this forum.

Lynn

I'd still open the door for you. A robust 'good day, Madam' to you.

Why ?

Well just wasn't sure what exactly you were wanting to know.

Some define proper different than others.

Same here T! The bold type above is still a law in Michigan and could get you some jailtime if a person wants to pursue it!

True, and me being a woman I would probably give you the most complicated nonsensical answer you would ever get from anyone else, and I would run on and on about a million things that have absolutely nothing to do with your question or the subject at hand, and in the end you would be frustrated by me and my lack of ability to answer said question, but being a consummate gentleman you would refrain from showing me your upset, and you would continue on your merry way still being haunted and perplexed by the original question. Which in turn down the road would leave you with some kind of neurosis or syndrome that will only cause further complications in your elder years.

Please accept my sincere apologies in anticipation of this dreadful scenario

Lynn

No. Figured you meant do I stand when a Lady comes to or leaves table, do I remove my hat and so on.
I meant no harm and still don't. Never meant to upset you either so I apoligize.

If you're having a bad day or not feeling well I hope you get better soon. Have a nice evening Ma'am.

RAS2,

I was bugging, joking, and trust me, if I bug you and I joke with you, I like you

If you took it otherwise I am sorry, it was not meant to harm.

BTW, I adore Yoda !

Now, call me Lynn. And you would be ?

Miss Lynn,

No harm done and I'm always up for fun and joking. I love to do the same. Have fun and laugh life is just too short.

lhonda,I was raised that way too, and still do so.I raised my boys to do so also,and will try to teach the grandson to.Its not always appreciated,but I still do.When someone makes a scene,I usually shrug and tell them to take it up with Mom and Dad.Its not dead,but does seem to be suffering.
For some reason,I'm not suprised that most of you guys do these things too. Lightman















i

Well done, Lightman. I would've wagered that those that were actually taught about these things will endeavor to pass them on.


And yep, in the OP, I said as much as far as the folks here.

Yep.

There are still many ladies who sincerely appreciate a courteous attitude and chivalrous gestures from gentlemen, far more than one might think. The numbers of those "ladies" who feel slighted in their womanhood by having a man hold a door or otherwise have some issues that cannot be addressed in a moment. Certainly if a woman is truly put off by a gentleman's attempt at common courtesy she is more than welcome to NOT walk through the open door and can remain outside/inside whatever the case may be. That is part of a lady's prerogative.

Years after we were married, my wife told me that a turning point in our relationship (on our first date) was when, while walking to the hamburger joint, I stepped around behind her and walked on the outside next to the curb. She said that no one had ever done that before. I was surprised because I had always done it. She is a professional woman (Elementary School Principal) but she has never stopped being a lady.

I was once having this same discussion with one of my bosses. When I referred to her as a lady, she informed me in a harsh tone that, she was no lady. I paused for an appropriate length of time before agreeing with her. She found it very difficult to muster much of a response. Perhaps that was un-gentlemanly of me but I did not want to argue.

Some good reading on this subject can be found in Mark Twain's - "Letters from the Earth".

Alan

.

I agree. I also walk on the curb side of a lady and never start to eat until my wife is seated and ready to eat.

I can't get used to men wearing hats inside.

I'd just buy you another drink and change the subject real subtle like...


Travis

"Gin and tonic please, with a slice of lime"

You just described perfectly every LOL in NAD I see in my ER every day...

I've got an honest to god question for a great group of folk. I'm 28, it comes natural as can be to hold the door for anyone until the line ends. Young, old, male, female, black yellow or purple. One thing that I can't wrap my head around is the restaurant, do you tell them you want a table for two and lead the lady behind the hostess? Or follow her behind the hostess because you want her to go first?

Follow the hostess and lead the lady. Always lead the lady,except when opening a door, and immediately after opening the door, take her hand or give her your arm, and lead the lady.

Aways walk outside her toward the curb, always shoot the bad guy, always be the guy with situational awareness. Any woman who objects to you leading is no lady, and there is no point in being with a woman who isn't a lady.

http://www.chivalrynow.net/intro.htm

i guess the modern definition of chivalry means a few different things as long as your comparing yourself to deeds of knighthood

the sum of the ideal qualifications of a knight, including
1.courtesy, generosity, valor, and dexterity in arms.
2. the rules and customs of medieval knighthood.
3. the medieval system or institution of knighthood.
4. a group of knights.
5. gallant warriors or gentlemen: fair ladies and noble chivalry.
6. Archaic . a chivalrous act; gallant deed.

I'm proudly southern raised and in a military family...

courtesy is what separates us from slobs.. who usually vote liberal.. since the world is all about them..

I really love it when you are a gentleman to a woman, who happens to be a liberal and then she starts giving ya a bunch of crap for showing her respect...

the kids who don't have it, are the ones whose parents never taught them... you can't blame the kids..

Ah ha, a reader of "The making of a Surgeon" The "GOMERS & GOMERES".

Me not so much there. Depends.

(1) I've got a "tone gap" in the hearing in my right ear that covers most female voices. If a gal is on my left I hear fine, if she's on my right, nada. So she's got a choice.

(2) Also, I know some gals who do not like to have anything between them and "escape" so they don't want to have anyone on their street-ward side.

I try to go with what the gal prefers. Lot of times it's pretty clear by body language but if not, I make a point of asking.

Tom

I have 87% loss in my right ear. I still walk curb side. The gal I am with most of the time has had 32 years to get use to my quirks. My three daughters seem to have adjusted well to their crazy dad. The rest can be taught.

Mine just pokes me with and elbow & points!

Great thing about a bad ear. I just put my good ear deep into a feather pillow and can sleep through a tornado.

I can do that!