A West Philadelphia abortion doctor, his wife and eight other suspects are now under arrest following a grand jury investigation.

Dr. Kermit Gosnell, 69, faces eight counts of murder in the deaths of a woman following a botched abortion at his office, along with the deaths of seven other babies who, prosecutors allege, were born alive following illegal late-term abortions and then were killed by severing their spinal cords with a pair of scissors. �

Gosnell is facing Murder in the 3rd Degree for the death of 41-year-old Karnamaya Mongar. Mrs. Mongar died on November 20, 2009 when she was overdosed with anesthetics prescribed by Gosnell. He is also facing seven Murder charges for the deaths of infants who were killed after being born viable and alive during the 6th, 7th and 8th month of pregnancy. Gosnell is also facing numerous other charges.

Gosnell is suspected of killing hundreds of living babies over the course of his 30 year practice. However, he is not charged because the records do not exist.

That's BS, Mannlicher. What he did- if as advertised- is abhorant.

That's BS, Mannlicher. What he did- if as advertised- is abhorant.

Dr. Kermit Gosnell, 69, faces eight counts of murder in the deaths of a woman following a botched abortion at his office, along with the deaths of seven other babies who, prosecutors allege, were born alive following illegal late-term abortions and then were killed by severing their spinal cords with a pair of scissors.

I heard this on the radio at lunch today. I literally lost my appetite. This guy is as messed up as they come.

They're all murderers.

And for those all giddy about .gov health care - if they'll kill you as a baby, they'll kill you when you're 80.

He is a hero to the liberals though. I mean, killing babies is on their agenda.

and note that liberals support infanticide, yet cringe at the thought of a convicted rapist or murderer being executed.

They're all murderers.

And for those all giddy about .gov health care - if they'll kill you as a baby, they'll kill you when you're 80.

It is a very fine line to make killing a viable, late term baby still in the birth canal a legal "choice" and killing the same type of baby within seconds of emerging from the canal a "murder."

Both scenarios are murder and the outrage here is that partial birth abortions are legal and routine.

Didn't please call me Senator Boxer take the position that it was OK to "abort" babies anytime between conception and the baby leaving the hospital after birth?

There is a very special place in hell for these late term baby killers and their advocates.

Dr. Kermit Gosnell, 69, faces eight counts of murder in the deaths of a woman following a botched abortion at his office, along with the deaths of seven other babies who, prosecutors allege, were born alive following illegal late-term abortions and then were killed by severing their spinal cords with a pair of scissors.

Naah, he was just doing late-term abortions a few moments later than usual is all. After all, these babies weren't borm all by themselves, he induced delivery first.

Vile as this case is, it does shine a spotlight on the true nature of abortion.

Therefore expect this storied to be buried ASAP.

Birdwatcher

I am willing to give even Jeff O the benefit of the doubt here.

You have every right to do as you please Sam, but I wouldn't give that POS the "benefit" of anything!

He's a scumbag in the literal sense of the word and should be castigated for his outlandish beliefs whenever he pokes his slimeball head out from under the rock he lives under.

For Thou didst form my inward parts; Thou didst weave me in my mother's womb. I will give thanks to Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Thy works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from Thee, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth. Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Thy book they were all written, The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them. (Psalm 139:13-16)

How can you say that, you baby killing sonofabitch??

Not only do you subscribe to abortion on demand, you voted for someone who believes in the outright murder of babies that takes place during partial birth abortions!!

Obama.........Opposed bill preventing partial-birth abortion

In 1997, Obama voted in the Illinois Senate against SB 230, a bill designed to prevent partial-birth abortions. In the US Senate, Obama has consistently voted to expand embryonic stem cell research. He has voted against requiring minors who get out-of-state abortions to notify their parents. The National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL) gives Obama a 100% score on his pro-choice voting record in the Senate for 2005, 2006, and 2007.

He is a hero to the liberals though. I mean, killing babies is on their agenda.

Correction - a fetus is not a baby (wait! I've got to get my helmet and flack vest on). Also, he killed the mother, a bona fide human being, through his incompetence; he misapplied anesthesia.

I do believe that he is not a hero to anyone, liberal or not. Liberals (BTW) do not necessarily agree with abortion, only the rights of a woman to seek medical attention and treatment. They, at least, want to keep the government out of their (and our) lives and privacy. Some conservatives, on the other hand, want to get the government into our lives and bedrooms.

a fetus is not a baby

Correction - a fetus is not a baby (wait! I've got to get my helmet and flack vest on).

Before I formed you in the womb I knew[a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.�

Jeremiah 1:5

It's amazing how many baby killer supporters won't even view the pictures of the practice they so vehemently support.
WARNING... dead babies.... oh nevermind, they are just fetuses. They didn't feel a thing. View away. First one that came up. There are plenty more if those don't give you the warm fuzzy you seek to know that a "woman's right" is being protected.
http://www.100abortionpictures.com/Aborted_Baby_Pictures_Abortion_Photos/

Let me correct something that might be inferred from my comments. I have no problem with an abortion in the first trimester. I do however; have real problems with abortions in the third trimester. It is an act of timing, not the act itself.

� Gender is determined - Immediately upon fertilization your little one is set as a boy or a girl. Ladies, this is one that you can't take credit for since it is up to the sperm to determine the sex of your baby. Sperm carries either a "X" (girl) chromosome or a "Y" (boy) chromosome. (*Hint:* You will have to hold off on picking out the pink or blue until at least the second trimester when the gender will be visible via ultrasound.)

http://www.pregnancy.org/fetaldevelopment/weeks-1-4

So it's male or female at conception. Seems like more than a lump of tissue to me.

Yeah, that's why I am so opposed to abortion. Looking at pictures like the ones on that other site make my heart break.

Surely it's not that big of a deal to use some birth control or give the kid up for adoption. Why do we allow people to kill babies??

Makes me madder than hell.

Third, it is interesting that so far no Ladies of the Fire have commented only men who can't get pregnant.

First, everything the doctor did is alleged until convicted in a court of law. If found guilty, this liberal believes the doctor should get the death penalty if that's an option in his state.

Second, this liberal believes in women's rights. Women should have the right to seek medical care and treatment of their choice. Hopefully, the medical treatment of choice won't be an abortion if at all possible.

Third, it is interesting that so far no Ladies of the Fire have commented only men who can't get pregnant.

It's way more interesting that only people who haven't been aborted have commented.

Yeah, that's why I am so opposed to abortion. Looking at pictures like the ones on that other site make my heart break.

Surely it's not that big of a deal to use some birth control or give the kid up for adoption. Why do we allow people to kill babies??

Makes me madder than hell.

She made her choice....to have unprotected sex.

Actually, I came very close to being a partial birth abortion to save my Mother's life. Mother lived and so did I much to the chagrin of most on the Fire and in reality land. You aren't the first one to wish I had been aborted and I doubt you will be the last one.

Actually, I came very close to being a partial birth abortion to save my Mother's life. Mother lived and so did I much to the chagrin of most on the Fire and in reality land. You aren't the first one to wish I had been aborted and I doubt you will be the last one.

She made her choice....to have unprotected sex.

I can't even stand to look at those kind of pictures-they would (probably) make me literally sick.

Awwww.... such the victim. When did I EVER say I wish you had been aborted??? It's not in me. Despite the efforts of some to attempt to draw it out.

Tim,
As far as I know, there are ~4000 abortions per DAY in the USA.
I don't know how many of those have been as a result of rape, but surely it is a minute fraction??

Correction - a fetus is not a baby

I don't know the number of rapes either but as a man I have no right to make that decision for a woman.

I don't know the number of rapes either but as a man I have no right to make that decision for a woman.

Lets see now. A fetus has 10 fingers and 10 toes. It has a working brain, a beating heart, and all the DNA necessary to produce children of it's own. It has the same number of chromosomes as a person of 40. It's either a male or a female. It's cells are absorbing nutrients and using them for growth. Now just what is it lacking for it to be a baby?

It's fully a person, but just at an earlier stage of life. Allowing this person to be killed at the convenience of it's mother is exactly the same as allowing a 90 year old to be killed at the convenience of his children. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.

I'll find that stat for you but let me ask this. Put aside for one second rape and 'medical reasons', are you in favor of the killing of healthy 'fetuses' by a healthy mother who had consensual sex and became pregnant? To use the common lexicon, "abortion on demand"?

Personally, if I was a healthy mother with a healthy fetus I would not abort. Personally, I wish there were no abortions. However, I'm a man who can't get pregnant.

If I'm to stick to my liberal/Bohemian principles of freedom and liberty I would have to say yes although I hope it would be rare. As a man, it's my responsiblity, that if I have consenual sex, that it not lead to pregancy and then to a abortion.

I hope to never forget the feeling I got the first time I saw that baby's heartbeat on the ultrasound screen.

Beyond belief. How the freak has this guy kept his medical license this long?

In the thirteenth century St. Thomas Aquinas had said that life is manifested principally in two kinds of actions: knowledge and movement. It could be taken to follow that animus, soul, or life, enters the body of the unborn infant when it first moves or stirs in the womb. This became the rule of English law. "Quickening" (literally, "coming to life") was held to occur not at a fixed time after conception, but at the moment when fetal movement is first detected�an event that varies with each pregnancy, but which usually happens near midterm, around the twentieth week.

It is not known exactly when this became the rule in England. The early twelfth-century text known as the Leges Henrici Primi took it for granted that animation occurs forty days after conception: abortion (which was treated only as an ecclesiastical offense) was said to be subject to three years' penance if it took place within those forty days, ten years' penance, as "quasi homicide," if it took place after animation (quickening). The identification of quickening with the first perception of fetal movement has been thought to date from the time of Henry de Bracton, a thirteenth-century judge and contemporary of Aquinas, who wrote the first systematic treatise on English law. But Bracton merely restated the canon law rule: "If one strikes a pregnant woman or gives her poison in order to procure an abortion, if the fetus is already formed or animated (quickened), especially if it is animated (quickened), he commits homicide." The usage by which a quickened fetus means one that has been felt moving in the womb could well be a much later development.

Although Bracton said that abortion of a quickened fetus was homicide, later writers insisted that it could not be homicide at common law. The proposition that abortion cannot be homicide is reiterated by practically every major writer on English criminal law, from William Staunford and William Lambard in the sixteenth century, through Edward Coke and Matthew Hale in the seventeenth century, to William Hawkins and William Blackstone in the eighteenth century. Homicide was agreed to require the prior birth of the victim. Murder might be charged, according to Hale, if the woman on whom an abortion was performed died as a result. Murder also might be charged, according to Coke, if a botched abortion injured a fetus that afterwards was born alive and then died from its prenatal injuries. But where a fetus, even a quickened fetus, was killed in the womb, resulting in stillbirth, whatever the crime, it would not be homicide at common law.

as libertarian I support a persons right to make a regretful and poor choice without interference from the government.

It's impossible to forget and impossible to explain unless and until you experience it.

Been there, done that. Not fun. Wife lost one after our first son was born. He was five at the time, and one of the hardest things to hear from him was "so I'm not going to be a big brother?" He said that through very emotional tears. Tore me up. I couldn't look him in the eye for fear of him seeing how upset I was. I walked outside and bawled. Second son came along the following year and all is good. But I heard that "fetus'" heartbeat, and you could never convince me it wasn't a baby, even in the first trimester.

Clyde

Correction - a fetus is not a baby (wait! I've got to get my helmet and flack vest on). Also, he killed the mother, a bona fide human being, through his incompetence; he misapplied anesthesia.

I do believe that he is not a hero to anyone, liberal or not. Liberals (BTW) do not necessarily agree with abortion, only the rights of a woman to seek medical attention and treatment. They, at least, want to keep the government out of their (and our) lives and privacy. Some conservatives, on the other hand, want to get the government into our lives and bedrooms.

Personally, if I was a healthy mother with a healthy fetus I would not abort. Personally, I wish there were no abortions. However, I'm a man who can't get pregnant.

If I'm to stick to my liberal/Bohemian principles of freedom and liberty I would have to say yes although I hope it would be rare. As a man, it's my responsiblity, that if I have consenual sex, that it not lead to pregancy and then to a abortion.

And if you are the liberal/bohemian father of that to be born child and the mother 'changes her mind' and decides she'd rather just kill it, then what?

I hope that I had chosen a better mate than that but it's the law and she gets to abort. I move on and hopefully I find a better mate the next time.

The major problem with living in a free society where men and women have reasonably equal rights, men and women get to make real dumb choices. I wouldn't have it any other way.

So you allow HER to terminate YOUR parental rights/desires? Interesting. Must be that whole "bohemian" thing which I admitedly can't relate to.
Thanks for the answer.

and note that liberals support infanticide, yet cringe at the thought of a convicted rapist or murderer being executed.

I didn't say I agree with the law but it's the law and there is nothing I can do about it.

Good point.

You know in some middle east locals you could get your wish if the inconvenience is female. As far as the good doctor goes a .22 behind the ear seems to be a good option

You know in some middle east locals you could get your wish if the inconvenience is female. As far as the good doctor goes a .22 behind the ear seems to be a good option

I wasn't asking you a legal question.
Since you are self professed liberal I'm sort of glad you think that. But... even though I don't know you I'd bet you don't really have that misconception.
You are killing me!
In light of recent news I do not mean to imply that DD is literally killing me, is contemplating killing me or could be moved to kill me due to any of the contents in this thread posted by me or anyone else with conflicting or even parallel opinions.

Only if you believe in the Book Of Fairy Tales.

You call it a fairy tale, I call it the truth. Which brings up a question, what happens to me if I am wrong?

Nah, I don't want to get dragged into this debate, as libertarian I support a persons right to make a regretful and poor choice without interference from the government. Abortion is choice and an ugly one at that, individuals that make that choice are solely responsible for their decisions.

Here's one reason why I could never be a Libertarian. Hypocrisy. They support the right to choose, but then kill the baby without it making a choice. If they want to support the right to choose, they can have the mother declare that she wants to abort. Then, when the baby is, say, 10 years old, he can make the choice to live or have his brains sucked out. If he chooses that latter, Mom is happy and Jr. is happy.

I am also against burning witches.

It never had anything to do with choice. It is about avoiding the consequences of a previous decision.

In any and all personal issues.

I'm in Philly and this is all over the news. He had a medical school graduate (but no MD) performing abortions in the office too and are you ready for this? A 15 yr old girl masquerading as an anesthesiologist. This guy would have never been caught if it was not for the fact that he was the largest script writer of oxycontin in the state. They estimate they he was taking in $15K to $20K a day, cash.