Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Abortion Doctor arrested for murder

I don't know the number of rapes either but as a man I have no right to make that decision for a woman.

Lets see now. A fetus has 10 fingers and 10 toes. It has a working brain, a beating heart, and all the DNA necessary to produce children of it's own. It has the same number of chromosomes as a person of 40. It's either a male or a female. It's cells are absorbing nutrients and using them for growth. Now just what is it lacking for it to be a baby?

It's fully a person, but just at an earlier stage of life. Allowing this person to be killed at the convenience of it's mother is exactly the same as allowing a 90 year old to be killed at the convenience of his children. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.

I'll find that stat for you but let me ask this. Put aside for one second rape and 'medical reasons', are you in favor of the killing of healthy 'fetuses' by a healthy mother who had consensual sex and became pregnant? To use the common lexicon, "abortion on demand"?

Personally, if I was a healthy mother with a healthy fetus I would not abort. Personally, I wish there were no abortions. However, I'm a man who can't get pregnant.

If I'm to stick to my liberal/Bohemian principles of freedom and liberty I would have to say yes although I hope it would be rare. As a man, it's my responsiblity, that if I have consenual sex, that it not lead to pregancy and then to a abortion.

I hope to never forget the feeling I got the first time I saw that baby's heartbeat on the ultrasound screen.

Beyond belief. How the freak has this guy kept his medical license this long?

In the thirteenth century St. Thomas Aquinas had said that life is manifested principally in two kinds of actions: knowledge and movement. It could be taken to follow that animus, soul, or life, enters the body of the unborn infant when it first moves or stirs in the womb. This became the rule of English law. "Quickening" (literally, "coming to life") was held to occur not at a fixed time after conception, but at the moment when fetal movement is first detected�an event that varies with each pregnancy, but which usually happens near midterm, around the twentieth week.

It is not known exactly when this became the rule in England. The early twelfth-century text known as the Leges Henrici Primi took it for granted that animation occurs forty days after conception: abortion (which was treated only as an ecclesiastical offense) was said to be subject to three years' penance if it took place within those forty days, ten years' penance, as "quasi homicide," if it took place after animation (quickening). The identification of quickening with the first perception of fetal movement has been thought to date from the time of Henry de Bracton, a thirteenth-century judge and contemporary of Aquinas, who wrote the first systematic treatise on English law. But Bracton merely restated the canon law rule: "If one strikes a pregnant woman or gives her poison in order to procure an abortion, if the fetus is already formed or animated (quickened), especially if it is animated (quickened), he commits homicide." The usage by which a quickened fetus means one that has been felt moving in the womb could well be a much later development.

Although Bracton said that abortion of a quickened fetus was homicide, later writers insisted that it could not be homicide at common law. The proposition that abortion cannot be homicide is reiterated by practically every major writer on English criminal law, from William Staunford and William Lambard in the sixteenth century, through Edward Coke and Matthew Hale in the seventeenth century, to William Hawkins and William Blackstone in the eighteenth century. Homicide was agreed to require the prior birth of the victim. Murder might be charged, according to Hale, if the woman on whom an abortion was performed died as a result. Murder also might be charged, according to Coke, if a botched abortion injured a fetus that afterwards was born alive and then died from its prenatal injuries. But where a fetus, even a quickened fetus, was killed in the womb, resulting in stillbirth, whatever the crime, it would not be homicide at common law.

as libertarian I support a persons right to make a regretful and poor choice without interference from the government.

It's impossible to forget and impossible to explain unless and until you experience it.

Been there, done that. Not fun. Wife lost one after our first son was born. He was five at the time, and one of the hardest things to hear from him was "so I'm not going to be a big brother?" He said that through very emotional tears. Tore me up. I couldn't look him in the eye for fear of him seeing how upset I was. I walked outside and bawled. Second son came along the following year and all is good. But I heard that "fetus'" heartbeat, and you could never convince me it wasn't a baby, even in the first trimester.

Clyde

Correction - a fetus is not a baby (wait! I've got to get my helmet and flack vest on). Also, he killed the mother, a bona fide human being, through his incompetence; he misapplied anesthesia.

I do believe that he is not a hero to anyone, liberal or not. Liberals (BTW) do not necessarily agree with abortion, only the rights of a woman to seek medical attention and treatment. They, at least, want to keep the government out of their (and our) lives and privacy. Some conservatives, on the other hand, want to get the government into our lives and bedrooms.

Personally, if I was a healthy mother with a healthy fetus I would not abort. Personally, I wish there were no abortions. However, I'm a man who can't get pregnant.

If I'm to stick to my liberal/Bohemian principles of freedom and liberty I would have to say yes although I hope it would be rare. As a man, it's my responsiblity, that if I have consenual sex, that it not lead to pregancy and then to a abortion.

And if you are the liberal/bohemian father of that to be born child and the mother 'changes her mind' and decides she'd rather just kill it, then what?

I hope that I had chosen a better mate than that but it's the law and she gets to abort. I move on and hopefully I find a better mate the next time.

The major problem with living in a free society where men and women have reasonably equal rights, men and women get to make real dumb choices. I wouldn't have it any other way.

So you allow HER to terminate YOUR parental rights/desires? Interesting. Must be that whole "bohemian" thing which I admitedly can't relate to.
Thanks for the answer.

and note that liberals support infanticide, yet cringe at the thought of a convicted rapist or murderer being executed.

I didn't say I agree with the law but it's the law and there is nothing I can do about it.