Grenade attacks throughout Tamaulipas; shootouts reported September 28, 2011 12:15 PM The Monitor
One of the most violent days recently in northern Tamaulipas took place Tuesday as one large firefight broke out in Matamoros, another firefight took place in Rio Bravo, and various grenade attacks occurred in Reynosa, Ciudad Victoria and Rio Bravo.
In Matamoros, fighting broke out about 5 p.m. near the intersection of Cuauht�moc Avenue and Calle Doce. Soon after, another fight broke out along Calle Sexta near the intersection with Canales Avenue. The fighting soon moved to the San Francisco neighborhood, where it reportedly lasted close to 30 minutes. The fighting allegedly took place between two groups of gunmen with Mexican authorities arriving shortly after to make it a three-way fight.
As the fighting continued, gunmen set up road blocks along the city�s main streets to interfere with the deployment of Mexican troops.
Cameron County officials confirmed that Veterans International Bridge was temporarily closed as a result of the situation in Matamoros.
The Twitter and Facebook account used by the City of Matamoros to warn about violent incidents didn�t issue any alerts. However the U.S. Consulate in Matamoros issued a warning regarding the firefight.
�A gun battle that occurred on September 27, 2011 between the approximate hours of 5:45 p.m. and 7:15 p.m.,� the document stated. �During that time heavy gunfire was reported in different locations in Matamoros including the downtown area.�
The warning advised U.S. citizens to avoid unnecessary travel within the city.
Tamaulipas authorities issued a new release confirming the grenade attacks and condemning all forms of violence.
RIO BRAVO
Official figures have not been released regarding the total number of injured or dead, but officials confirmed two dead in the Rio Bravo shootout.
The shootout came Tuesday afternoon about 3 p.m., shortly after a group of men in an SUV threw a grenade at the Azteca movie theater along Madero Avenue, seriously injuring one person. Soon after the first attack, a second grenade was thrown at the Tamaulipas State Police building along Independence Street; no injuries were reported. The shootout took place shortly after the two attacks between Mexican authorities and gunmen.
REYNOSA
About an hour later in Reynosa, three different grenade attacks were reported without any injuries. One of the grenades was thrown at a nightclub called Dubai along Seventh Street. A second device was thrown at a hair salon next to Guadalupe Victoria Elementary School in the Mil Cumbres Dos neighborhood.
The third grenade attack took place in the Casa Bella neighborhood.
The Twitter and Facebook account used by the Reynosa city government to warn about violent incidents didn�t issue any alerts but invited the public to various cultural activities.
On Monday night, two different grenades went off one in the Gallo De Oro bar in the Rodriguez neighborhood and another in the Cadillac Bar in the downtown area. At the Gallo De Oro bar, one man by the name of Enrique Valdez Martinez was killed by the blast and seven other patrons were injured.
CIUDAD VICTORIA
In the state capital, Ciudad Victoria, two grenades were thrown at a Federal Electric Commission warehouse along Luis Caballero Avenue, causing damage to electronic equipment inside.
how much longer before you report on a possible solution to our difficulties, instead of reporting day by day on the difficulties that just keep on emerging??
if your job is to report, whose job is it to begin the implementation of effective solutions?
i'll bet there's plenty of Federal boots in the Middle East that would be most happy to occupy the Southern Borderlines, for pay, benefits, and an offering of service.
Why don't you go badmouth some more "Baby Killers" you [bleep]' INSECT.
THAT seems to be YOUR particular FORTE, and you're a bit lost in the majority here,.....a goddam oddity.
Nice to see Hunter1960 has his very own "Campfire Deputy", though,....you two were MADE to "Serve" together.
GTC
cockroaches, and coyotes might be the ruler of this Earth, when all is said and done.
just keep the Faith, when the invaders South of the Borderlines choose to cross over, hopefully you'll be prepared.
Federal boots on the ground, right up to the River will be a valuable asset. but, who decides that Federal boots should be placed along the Borderline?
you seem to enjoy attention, but who is going to stop the illegal aliens from all parts of the globe from invading our Nation??
how much longer before you report on a possible solution to our difficulties, instead of reporting day by day on the difficulties that just keep on emerging??
if your job is to report, whose job is it to begin the implementation of effective solutions?
i'll bet there's plenty of Federal boots in the Middle East that would be most happy to occupy the Southern Borderlines, for pay, benefits, and an offering of service.
All Cross can do is "cut & paste" what he can find. He can't debate the issue, because all he has is his "cut & paste" articles.
He'll then cuss you, if you question his "cut & paste" articles. Your, supposed to believe everything he "cuts & pastes", because it's the internet and you know it has to be true.
I forgot to mention dead Mexicans in Mexico, awwww so sad, not. I see them at about the same level as towelheads, no use for either one.
Grenade attacks, Fire fights in Mexico. We better stop selling full auto's and explosive at gun shows near the boarder. I mean what the pluck, just dance right in and buy grenades, RPG's and full auto weapons off a table! No Way that should be allowed!! I mean what's next at these gun shows, M-1 Abrams tanks? Bad enough you can just drive off the lot with a Bradley.
Reporters, the plucking stupid supplying information to the plucking stupid.
Three of the four places in that article are within 40 miles from me. I still know people that go back and forth regually. It has been awhile since I was on the other side.
There's a certain weird and intriguing Sweetness to the bond so obviously being struck between Gus, and H1960. They're obviously both cold, wet, tired, hungry (rough under those bridges, ya' know)
I'll bet they're going to have a nice long "relationship", and sire all sortsa' filthy degenerate little monsters,.....creepier and more tocic than they ever,.....
WHOA !
PHEW,.....that's a wedding notice from Hell, what?
[quote=crossfireoops]There's a certain weird and intriguing Sweetness to the bond so obviously being struck between Gus, and H1960. They're obviously both cold, wet, tired, hungry (rough under those bridges, ya' know)
I'll bet they're going to have a nice long "relationship", and sire all sortsa' filthy degenerate little monsters,.....creepier and more tocic than they ever,.....
WHOA !
Your a hoot shorty. Too bad you couldn't use your ability to do anything then "cut & paste" on the old fart site.
How you doing on running them illegals back across the border? I guess you'll never ever do anything like that. You'll just have to let someone else do your work for you, which is par for you. You old farts and your fantasy world of all will be well, because you dream and wish it to be.
The border won't be closed within the next POTUS cycle. The same with the illegal importation and use of illegal narcotics in this country, by US citizens. Why is it so difficult for you to understand that the recreactional drug users in this country have a multi-billion dollar desire and the cartels are supplying that demand.
Yes, it's terrible i see the families and the users and how narcotics, especially Meth. impacted upon communities in Mid. TN. But i understand the reality of it, and it's not going away soon. Now matter how much some old farts here, hope and wish it would. You have a good evening little fella.
Are these the grenades they supposedly got from the USA? Grenades are us? Not much we can do about them folks down there but when things start happening like that here,maybe a lot.
All the romantic GAS being blown by Birdy notwithstanding,....he really knows little about Mexico TODAY,....
Ain't difficult to grasp....
Folks killing/torturing each other with abandon, fighting over the billions of dollars to be made by catering to the American drug market.
NO rule of law, ergo one can easily get away with murder so long as one is aligned with a suffuciently powerful bunch.
Evil walks untrammelled and unchecked.
VAST quantities of drugs crossing over with impunity, distributed by a network of millions of participating Americans such that, as I have often posted, every high school kid in America can easily access the stuff.
Anything needing to be added?
Ain't ever bought illegal drugs myself. Took a hit or two of weed back in the days but never did care for it. I believe someone slipped me acid or pcp once but that weren't my doing. Other than that, never have been a user/purchaser.
Alchohol was my drug, and I abused it heavily.
All that being so I still got no problem using a collective "us" when talking American participation in the drug trade.
Strange thing is, 3,000 people still cross over into Mexico at El Paso EVERY DAY, a stat reflected at other Texas ports of entry. I even know some people who STILL visit kin there
All the romantic GAS being blown by Birdy notwithstanding,....he really knows little about Mexico TODAY,....
Ain't difficult to grasp....
Folks killing/torturing each other with abandon, fighting over the billions of dollars to be made by catering to the American drug market.
NO rule of law, ergo one can easily get away with murder so long as one is aligned with a suffuciently powerful bunch.
Evil walks untrammelled and unchecked.
VAST quantities of drugs crossing over with impunity, distributed by a network of millions of participating Americans such that, as I have often posted, every high school kid in America can easily access the stuff.
Anything needing to be added?
Ain't ever bought illegal drugs myself. Took a hit or two of weed back in the days but never did care for it. I believe someone slipped me acid or pcp once but that weren't my doing. Other than that, never have been a user/purchaser.
Alchohol was my drug, and I abused it heavily.
All that being so I still got no problem using a collective "us" when talking American participation in the drug trade.
Strange thing is, 3,000 people still cross over into Mexico at El Paso EVERY DAY, a stat reflected at other Texas ports of entry. I even know some people who STILL visit kin there
Birdwatcher
Birdy, we've had our differences, but your very much correct that US citizens are funding the Cartels in Mex. Many here won't admit that it's a multi-billion dollar a year business funded by US citizens desire for illegal narcotics. Yet your cussed, for stating the truth.
When you can interdict veh's on a major Interstate in mid. TN. with marijuana, heroin, meth. and the driver when interrogated, tells you that it all came out of Mexico, and to what cartel the money is to go back to, it's a business.
Because many here don't want to admit that the US citizens are driving the train in this cartel funding, they feel that it's a failure to admit the facts. It's not failure, it's the fact and reality of the situation.
When you can interdict veh's on a major Interstate in mid. TN. with marijuana, heroin, meth. and the driver when interrogated, tells you that it all came out of Mexico, and to what cartel the money is to go back to, it's a business.
Aint nowhere very far anymore. I could cross over the river from the hell of Nuevo Laredo on Saturday morning and be in Nashville in time for a late bunch on Sunday pretty easy.
6,000 inbound trucks a day from Nuevo Laredo, estimates as high as 3% total cargo being contraband. Even 1% would be the equivalent of 60 semi truck loads, EVERY DAY.
For my own part I see the Border as being inconsequential in this trade, just different ends of the same snake is all.
Mention was made on another post about the Cartels recruiting high school students to work for them on this side of the Border. Heck, they already are, have been for years, EVERYBODY who sell their product works for the Cartels.
More direct than that I believe its common knowledge that the Cartels have multiple pairs of American eyes and ears working for them on our side of the Border, the extent of finding out the personal information of all the local LEO's.
Most worrying to me is the corrupting effect of all those billions of dollars in drug profits on our own law enforcement community. We lose the integrity of THAT group of people and we're sunk.
All Cross can do is "cut & paste" what he can find. He can't debate the issue, because all he has is his "cut & paste" articles.
He performs a service for us that do not live it day to day. Most of us would not be aware of what is happening cause the lib press just will not carry the stories. Can't figure out how anyone could get pissed cause Cross decides to post articles concerning the invasion in his backyard.
This is all bullsh!it. Everyone knows the border could be sealed tomorrow if congress had the will to do so. Just too much money to be made by keeping it open - and therein lies the rub.
All Cross can do is "cut & paste" what he can find. He can't debate the issue, because all he has is his "cut & paste" articles.
He performs a service for us that do not live it day to day. Most of us would not be aware of what is happening cause the lib press just will not carry the stories. Can't figure out how anyone could get pissed cause Cross decides to post articles concerning the invasion in his backyard. ...
When you can interdict veh's on a major Interstate in mid. TN. with marijuana, heroin, meth. and the driver when interrogated, tells you that it all came out of Mexico, and to what cartel the money is to go back to, it's a business.
Aint nowhere very far anymore. I could cross over the river from the hell of Nuevo Laredo on Saturday morning and be in Nashville in time for a late bunch on Sunday pretty easy.
6,000 inbound trucks a day from Nuevo Laredo, estimates as high as 3% total cargo being contraband. Even 1% would be the equivalent of 60 semi truck loads, EVERY DAY.
For my own part I see the Border as being inconsequential in this trade, just different ends of the same snake is all.
Mention was made on another post about the Cartels recruiting high school students to work for them on this side of the Border. Heck, they already are, have been for years, EVERYBODY who sell their product works for the Cartels.
More direct than that I believe its common knowledge that the Cartels have multiple pairs of American eyes and ears working for them on our side of the Border, the extent of finding out the personal information of all the local LEO's.
Most worrying to me is the corrupting effect of all those billions of dollars in drug profits on our own law enforcement community. We lose the integrity of THAT group of people and we're sunk.
Birdwatcher
Your right about, being anywhere in the nation from the border in a short period of time.
Doing interdiction for narcotics is like looking for a needle in a haystack. they don't advertise on the veh's. "Hey, i've got drugs, stop me." It's like fishing manytimes, you have to throw alot of lure to get a hit. You have to make alot of stops, (look for characteristics, it's PC for profiling) ask alot of questions and watch and listen to the answers, both verbally & body lanuage. Good dogs help too.
We don't get every load, don't even get half, when your on a stop, you ask yourself what's rolling by. You start asking the questions, looking for the responses, back it up with criminal checks/EPIC. If it all looks good and you've no suspicions, you kick'em loose and look for another duck.
I have no doubt that HS kids are involved in the US, it's good money. The cartels know that if kids get ping'd for a narcotics charge, it won't be a big deal. I was introduced to an 8 yr old in one of the many projects in Memphis, by a Shelby Co. Narcotics Agent, years ago. This kid worked for a gang. He sure knew his way around the drug business, he was a spotter and a holder.
It's a business, those that don't believe that are just fooling themselves, and trying to fool others. The LE agencies on the border need to keep a close check on their LEO's. I can't imagine that they pay that much. Folks don't realize how much money is out there and how easy it would be to take an envelope if presented by a cartel member.
These cartels aren't stupid, they plan, they're organized. They employ highly qualified people in the intell. and Spec. Ops. business, again many trained by US Mil. organizations in years past. You don't make the kind of money that the cartels are by luck.
All Cross can do is "cut & paste" what he can find. He can't debate the issue, because all he has is his "cut & paste" articles.
He performs a service for us that do not live it day to day. Most of us would not be aware of what is happening cause the lib press just will not carry the stories. Can't figure out how anyone could get pissed cause Cross decides to post articles concerning the invasion in his backyard. ...
It's the same old story, day in and day, out. You can't win a battle by posting about it on the 'net. This isn't going to be an overnight adventure. It's going to take years.
It's a proven fact, that our previous POTUS's and Congress's and our current POTUS & Congress, along with our possible future POTUS and possible Congress don't care. The front runner for the GOP and possible POTUS from a border state, isn't all that concerned with the issue, is he??
In my business when we have a particular criminal who we know has been committing crimes we go hunt him down. The same with criminal activity in a particular area, we put hands on involvement in that area, we don't "cut & paste" on the 'net. Crossy, could do more hands on in his community, but he chooses not, to.
That his choice, but don't piss & whine about the issue, if your not willing to go out there and get involved physically, more then welding on ranges.
All Cross can do is "cut & paste" what he can find. He can't debate the issue, because all he has is his "cut & paste" articles.
He performs a service for us that do not live it day to day. Most of us would not be aware of what is happening cause the lib press just will not carry the stories. Can't figure out how anyone could get pissed cause Cross decides to post articles concerning the invasion in his backyard.
This is all bullsh!it. Everyone knows the border could be sealed tomorrow if congress had the will to do so. Just too much money to be made by keeping it open - and therein lies the rub.
Liar1960 hasn't got it in him to try and explain this weirdness,......seems to be pointedly ignoring the issue, in fact.There's certainly no question but that it is some SERIOUS weirdness,.....pathologically so.
Maybe his simple little mind hasn't ever gone there, and he just does this as a "Knee Jerk" kinda reflex ?
"Thought Processes of an Amoeba, and How They Relate Modern American Law Enforcement"
THERE is a Book Title that would get one's attention,...
In my business when we have a particular criminal who we know has been committing crimes we go hunt him down. The same with criminal activity in a particular area, we put hands on involvement in that area, we don't "cut & paste" on the 'net. Crossy, could do more hands on in his community, but he chooses not, to. That his choice, but don't piss & whine about the issue, if your not willing to go out there and get involved physically, more then welding on ranges.
A goddam FUHRER, issuing this morning's edict. Looks like freedom of speech is not going to be a big hit in Fascist1960s new Reich.
[bleep] you, your Kiwanis, Lions, and lodge, you eight ball mofo
Really DOES appear that what we have here, I mean our local CROPS sufferer (Cranio-Rectal Over Pressure Syndrome)... is some sorta THOUGHT POLICE,....No ?
Somebody get this azzwhole a brown shirt and an armband, muy pronto.
The LE agencies on the border need to keep a close check on their LEO's. I can't imagine that they pay that much. Folks don't realize how much money is out there and how easy it would be to take an envelope if presented by a cartel member.
I've gotta find again a book that Crossfire told me about "Ten Years on the Line: My war on the Border" by Mike Lignon.
A somewhat rambling and repetitive account that coulda used a good edit, but in it he lays out what it was like to work at the Douglas Az. Port of Entry.
Rampant nepotism and inefficiency, but more than anything a failure to enforce on all levels. Not usually big stuff but a host of minor transactions setting a climate wherein those intent on enforcing the letter of the law became the "bad" guys.
Somewhere in that book he gives a quote as to the going rate for looking the other way when a big shipment DID come through. I'm recalling something in the ballpark of about 1% of the total street value.
Here's a spot I've posted before, in Starr County TX right next to a famous birding spot on the Rio Grande.
EVERYBODY knew this had been a major crossing point forever; abundant signs of cross-Border transits left in the dirt, common knowledge that you needed to be out by dark. 2008/2009 they finally moved and siezed a single pickup at that spot loaded with $23 MILLION DOLLARS worth of cocaine (IIRC ~750 lbs).
If I have my numbers correct, one "didn't see it" on that one could have given a cash payment of about $200,000.
Near as I can tell, the place ain't changed any since then, I have heard of one group of locals arrested living in walking distance from that spot in 2009 who had brung an estimated 18,000 pounds of marijuana over.
The question being, if this is so flagrantly obvious even to a visiting bird watcher, how can it continue like that for years on end?
I will say that this is Starr County, where an estimated HALF of all the locals derive their income from contraband. At least two successive Sheriffs have been convicted, so maybe the local LEO's just bow to the economic realities of the population they serve. Sorta like Cops in old days in the moonshine counties of Tennesse.
Prob'ly significant that despite it being the poorest county in the US outside of Pine Ridge, Starr County like most of the Texas side of the Border remains a remarkably safe place for clueless ecotourists to visit.
Greg, Crossfire, Buddy, Quit wasting the internet ink. Take action for once in your life, do something today. Something you can come back and report to us on the fire that you did to stop the madness in your own backyard. But please do us all a favor and stop the doing your part by just telling us what we already know. We don't need your blathering and carrying on about how bad things are. Tell us tomorrow that you did something worthwhile today. I will come back on tomorrow for your response. I hope I will not be disappointed again.
Since only ONE of the groups is shooting and killing innocents , I'm kinda in favor of ONLY killing THAT bunch.
???
What, you think I'm not in favor of shooting the scum??
As for the rest, are you seriously gonna tell me American dollars from drug purchases are NOT funding all of that?
Birdwatcher
You just need to THINK a bit further , Birdy:
Let's say you - or Hunter 1960 - could wave a magic wand and clean up half the addicts, across the board.A 50% reduction in demand means WHAT , as far as border violence?
You think half the cartels are just gonna fold their tents and find another line of work?
Or is it more likely that the "competition" for market share in a reduced market might get even more "aggressive" ?
I've tried to use the language of "business" for those who see the border violence as "just business".
In plain talk , reduced demand will bring an increase in violence.That's just a fact.
What's with the question marks? You may be too smart for this class , but I'll try again:
Everybody knows that illegal drugs have been coming across the Mexican border for years. Check.
Everybody knows that Columbia became a war zone due to drug cartels .Check.
Everybody knows that the rampant violence just across the Mexican border , and increasingly on this side of the border , is a recent development - let's peg it at seven years .Check.
The violence is due to territorial disputes between cartels.The territories being the "shipping lanes".Check.
Decreasing the demand for drugs would increase the worth of each shipping lane.Each cartel would need more distribution points just to keep THEIR gross revenue at the present level.
Put another way ; Where is the correlation between the demand for drugs and the amount of violence on the border?Where is a credible graph showing one leading the other?
Let me try my original statement again:
I'd rather see ALL our dollars spent for bullets to shoot bad guys on the border rather than one penny spent trying to rehab one addict.
React to the violence on the border without regard for its' root cause.
You don't deserve to be lumped with Hunter1960 , but when the thread topic is border violence and he insists on talking about some ghetto in Tennessee , or you point out how you birdwatchers come and go on the river,
YOU ARE DANCING TO JANET"S TUNE AND IT PISSES ME OFF!
And who in Hell is Brian? He don't even SOUND Mexican.
In my highschool/college/motorcycle years I knew people who dabbled in ALL those substances, them even shooting heroin once or twice, tho it was a fine line to travel.
I expect a great many fit that description, especially with cocaine and almost universally with weed. I'm gonna float a WAG that about a quarter of graduating college students would be bona-fide cocaine, meth or heroin addicts addicts if EVERY casual use ended in addiction.
In terms of volume, though everything is coming across the Border, near as I can tell most of it is cocaine and weed.
In my highschool/college/motorcycle years I knew people who dabbled in ALL those substances, them even shooting heroin once or twice, tho it was a fine line to travel.
I expect a great many fit that description, especially with cocaine and almost universally with weed. I'm gonna float a WAG that about a quarter of graduating college students would be bona-fide cocaine, meth or heroin addicts addicts if EVERY casual use ended in addiction.
In terms of volume, though everything is coming across the Border, near as I can tell most of it is cocaine and weed.
Kind of like "90% of the guns in Mexico come from the U.S." kind of guess....
Um....
...more like a "based upon reported seizures" sort of guess..
...but not like a "personnel of the agencies actually doing the seizing" sort of guess, hence my "WAG" disclaimer.
A tad patheitc tho how merely posting a contrary opinion around here quickly gets some folks undies in a knot, as if ridicule could change the facts....
Quote
"Mea Culpa"
.....kneel in front of "Santa Muerte" and repeat that 5 k times
,.....got the picture yet ?
Hookay....
...more than thirty five billion dollars of Mexican drugs are purchased annually by...
A) Armenians B) Andulasians C) Amphibians D) Americans E) Ambidextrans
Thought so....
Two ends of the same snake. But I'll allow its more rewarding to some to bitch endlessly about others.
Yeah, reports of seizures. Sure... that tells us what's coming across.
Again, I'll go to the Kenyan example of how to stop the problem. Fixes both heads of the snake, but it ain't "nice", like the myth of legalization is.
Oh, and you obviously haven't even begun to get a clue about meth. Addiction is a damned near guarantee, and there's essentially no rehab. Use it, and it hooks you to death. Simple as that.
We just have to remember those "civic organizations" like MS-13, Latin Kings, La Familia, and their Mexican and Latin American supporters are all just out there to provide business that American's won't, right?
They, their drugs, and their addicts, are a cancer on society.
We just have to remember those "civic organizations" like MS-13, Latin Kings, La Familia, and their Mexican and Latin American supporters are all just out there to provide business that American's won't, right?
They, their drugs, and their addicts, are a cancer on society.
The meth info I get is from addictions counselors, cops, attorneys, and para-medics. Folks who actually deal with it daily, in their accomplished professions...... This ain't no '70s-era schwag. It's different. Like comparing powder coke to crack; i.e., you haven't a f'kin' clue.
No WAG, here, as to what's happening NOW, not 40 years ago that might not be remembered that well through the haze of a memory from having "been there, dude..."
Ditto the same with the heroin, now, vice whatever you thought you had then.
We just have to remember those "civic organizations" like MS-13, Latin Kings, La Familia, and their Mexican and Latin American supporters are all just out there to provide business that American's won't, right?
The meth info I get is from addictions counselors, cops, attorneys, and para-medics. Folks who actually deal with it daily, in their accomplished professions......
I'll go ask the dealers down the street, or local teenagers, got some hanging out ont in the street out front even as I write.
Hey, I hear what you are saying, and ya dont gotta tell a high schoot teacher about the swathe that drugs cut, but aint everyone who touches it becomes an addict.
Quote
No WAG, here, as to what's happening NOW, not 40 years ago that might not be remembered that well through the haze of a memory from having "been there, dude..."
I recall it clear as a bell, 'twas my great good fortune to have a lifelong innate distrust of "highs" or "trips". Never been much of a follower either, ergo never was a "hippie" (tho I was a longhair back when I could grow it).
I always felt that the only legit path along those lines was to sit out in the woods for four days, no food or water, looking for a vision. Never did that myself....
(...but of course been around those that have... )
OK, I think this is where you try to think up some more efforts at ridicule...
I mean, they routinely find folks in Sturgis hacked to death in their homes during broad daylight, right?
Or, bodies under overpasses that have been mutilated with the heads skinned, the throats slit into Columbian neckties, and the hands hacked off, right?
Of course, Sturgis is an epicenter of drug use that has destroyed communities all over the U.S., right?
And, those that go to Sturgis are actively involved in the corruption and bringing down of an entire national government in a neighboring or host country, too, right?
No need for ridicule, as you simply haven't a clue, and that much is apparent.
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
Quote
The meth info I get is from addictions counselors, cops, attorneys, and para-medics. Folks who actually deal with it daily, in their accomplished professions......
I'll go ask the dealers down the street, or local teenagers, got some hanging out ont in the street out front even as I write.
Hey, I hear what you are saying, and ya dont gotta tell a high schoot teacher about the swathe that drugs cut, but aint everyone who touches it becomes an addict.
Quote
No WAG, here, as to what's happening NOW, not 40 years ago that might not be remembered that well through the haze of a memory from having "been there, dude..."
I recall it clear as a bell, 'twas my great good fortune to have a lifelong innate distrust of "highs" or "trips". Never been much of a follower either, ergo never was a "hippie" (tho I was a longhair back when I could grow it).
I always felt that the only legit path along those lines was to sit out in the woods for four days, no food or water, looking for a vision. Never did that myself....
(...but of course been around those that have... )
OK, I think this is where you try to think up some more efforts at ridicule...
I just realized that Sturgis must be rivaling Nuevo Laredo and Cuidad Juarez for the murder capital of the world, right?
I mean, where else in the entire world could be more dangerous than a town in South Dakota that hosts an annual biker rally? Every bit as dangerous as a border town fueled by narco-trafficante' money and violence that has seen a near 100% decimation of their police and elected officials in the last two years, and the often brutal murders of the families of the same, right?
what the [bleep], exactly is THAT supposed to mean ?
Fastest way I could think of to include every Outlaw Biker organization on the planet, who as a group have derived much of their income from exaclty those activities mentioned here, right down to the drugs, sex slavery, and murder.
Now I know as well as anyone should that those folks comprise a small but highly significant minority of those at Sturgis, but they are there, every year.
Always have been, since almost the beginning.
Do I really have to explain to YOU that most "bikers" ain't or weren't outlaws?
That's one damn lame attempt to twist the narco-war going on to be "racist" against Hispanics.
Hint: it ain't about Hispanics, is about the narcos. If they happen to be Hispanic, Black, White, Green, or f'kin' polka-dot, it don't change schit.
Get off your damned high horse because you think everyone is anti-Hispanic and look at the facts of the situation. It's about drugs, narco-terrorism, narco-gangs, and the cancer that is drug-addiction and drug-trafficking.
Deal with THAT, and don't fret the race, because the only one making it racist, is you.
I mean, they routinely find folks in Sturgis hacked to death in their homes during broad daylight, right?
Or, bodies under overpasses that have been mutilated with the heads skinned, the throats slit into Columbian neckties, and the hands hacked off, right?
Of course, Sturgis is an epicenter of drug use that has destroyed communities all over the U.S., right?
And, those that go to Sturgis are actively involved in the corruption and bringing down of an entire national government in a neighboring or host country, too, right?
Deal with THAT, and don't fret the race, because the only one making it racist, is you.
Where, pray tell, have I mentioned race? At all?
Some of us, in our accomplished professions, are sharp enough to read between the lines.
Must be our accomplished professions.
It's damned apparent from your posts on any border/narco threads that you're ass-raw that someone might paint Hispanics with a brush you don't like, because the VAST majority of narcos are Hispanic.
The reason for your objection is obvious, and noted. And, irrelevant.
As is the race (or, technically, ethnicity) of those doing the crimes.
The crimes are the issue.
As is the solution.
They (narcos), their activities, their drugs, and their addicts, are a cancer.
It, and they, ought to be dealt with as such.
You can decide to "play nice" with a cancer, if you choose to do so, and think that it won't kill you.
What happens on these threads is I say exactly what our mothers woulda told us when we started talking about how bad little Johnny was down the street if we was in fact trading marbles or something for Johnny's stolen baseball cards.
(I dunno if you're old enough to remember baseball cards. Actually in working class England in the 60's believe it or not, we had Civil War cards).
Pursuant to this and other threads, I believe it'll be a cold day in Hell before we intervene across that Border absent flagrant, REALLY flagrant Border transgressions or else actual war and the resultant flood of millions of refugees.
Aint no ready solution to the millions of American users here either.
It oughtta be possible to practically shut down the Border as it is at present however with merely boots on the ground along the line. An average of four people per mile is only 8,000 per shift.
Likewise searching EVERY truck or rail car coming in at Laredo (perhaps THE major port in ingress) shouldn't be an impossible task even if it amounts to the equivalent of 10,000 semis per day.
Illegals? Sometimes tough to identify in our general population (me and my wife get pulled over by the Border Patrol all the time ). Employers are much easier to spot. Criminal charges for employing illegals would be the easiest first step. Along with what is currently working in Alabama; proof of citizenship oughta be require for all public serivces, from school attendance to driver's licenses.
OK, gotta run to work in this lower-income area where I work, in tbhe first big city up from the Border.
"It oughtta be possible to practically shut down the Border as it is at present however with merely boots on the ground along the line. An average of four people per mile is only 8,000 per shift.
Likewise searching EVERY truck or rail car coming in at Laredo (perhaps THE major port in ingress) shouldn't be an impossible task even if it amounts to the equivalent of 10,000 semis per day."
I've given you the benefit of the doubt when considering whether you are ill-informed are willfully ignorant about the Tex-Mex border.No more.
Those two statements alone qualify you to be the Chuck Schumer of the border.You keep spouting the same nonsensical drivel which can be discredited by a reasonably intelligent tenth grader.
[student raises hand;"'uhh,uhh, 'scuse me teacher , but being as the "line" is the middle of the river,where are those boots gonna stand? Especially when the river comes down on a big headrise.
And where you gonna park those trucks and railcars while you got all of 'em being searched?"
Each time a thread is started about BORDER VIOLENCE [see"grenade" in the title block?] you and a few others either minimize it , deny it outright , or spin it in another direction .
IOW : YOU'RE DANCING TO JANET'S TUNE AND IT PISSES ME OFF!
It oughtta be possible to practically shut down the Border as it is at present however with merely boots on the ground along the line. An average of four people per mile is only 8,000 per shift.
Likewise searching EVERY truck or rail car coming in at Laredo (perhaps THE major port in ingress) shouldn't be an impossible task even if it amounts to the equivalent of 10,000 semis per day.
Illegals? Sometimes tough to identify in our general population (me and my wife get pulled over by the Border Patrol all the time ). Birdwatcher
This is a serious problem that needs solutions... you aren't taken serious anymore 'on this subject' because of flippant statements like those above... and like statements you've expressed many times in the past. Each statement is beyond just exaggeration, to further whatever personal agenda you have about Hispanics.
'uhh,uhh, 'scuse me teacher , but being as the "line" is the middle of the river,where are those boots gonna stand? Especially when the river comes down on a big headrise.
You can't be serious. Same place as we would put a fence.
On the topic of boots on the ground, I believe this has been discussed at length here. I was given to understand that when this sort of thing was actually tried on a minor scale, a major problem was boredom of those employed at this task.
As the vehicle bumps along the south side of Hidalgo County's 18-foot high concrete levee-wall, there comes a moment of chagrin. A homemade wooden ladder lies along the earthen path. Hoisted, it was almost exactly the height of the wall. Fresh footprints mean immigrants cleared the barrier within the past hour. The radio crackles with another agent's report that their trail ended at a road, indicating they met their pickup and were likely already lost in the traffic on U.S. 83.
This from Hildago County, surely a set of eyes coulda prevented that.
I'd be interested in knowing why you feel this aproach is impractical.
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And where you gonna park those trucks and railcars while you got all of 'em being searched?"
Depends how many you could get through in a day, of course. Post some estimates, explain in detail why the logistics make it impossible.
Otherwise you have stated on these boards in rapid succession...
1) Reducing the number of drug users in the United States would only increase the violence along the Border.
2) Physically watching the entire length of the Border from our side is "nonsensical".
and
3) There is nothing that can be done to effectively control the flow of drugs packaged in our imports from Mexico.
This is a serious problem that needs solutions... you aren't taken serious anymore 'on this subject' because of flippant statements like those above...
A pair of eyes every 1/4 mile along our Border isn't possible? Please explain why.
Are you also suggesting we have NO control over what comes into our country through packaged goods at a legal Port of Entry? Realistic estimates run along the lines of the equivalent of more than 60 semi loads of drugs up Interstate 37 every day.
If, as you state there are no solutions to this that aren't "flippant", why even bother with interdiction at all?
And yepper, my lovely wife and I do get pulled over by the Border Patrol a lot when close to the Border. What you seem to be missing is it doesn't bother us at all. Mostly we're glad they're looking.
You can't build a fence down the middle of a river.Where would you put the fence?You do understand that the middle of the river is the border,don't you?
Everyplace we have a section of fence in Texas,such as the one in the article , we have forfeited land to Mexico.And you,O'Reilly, and Bachmann want a fence the full length of the border.
Now for the trucks and rail cars question: I've SEEN the traffic on the bridges at Laredo , Eagle Pass , and Del Rio.And so have you!You know it's not feasible.
I don't have to do a time study on counting individual grains of beach sand to know I can't count all of 'em on Padre Island in my lifetime.
Demand vs. violence :If you have three hounds in one pen , and you throw three coon carcasses in ,there will be some growling and shoving , but pretty quickly each dog is chewing on a coon.Throw two carcasses in there , and you got yourself a dogfight.
Yes... It really is that simple.
As far as physically watching the border from our side is concerned :You would really have to get off the concrete,even get off the roads you can travel in a pickup , even go as close as you can get in a hunting jeep and then get out and walk to even get an idea of just how wild and rough the country is along that river West of the Pecos.
And it is all private land until you get to Black Gap and the Park.My hunting buddy goes down to Black Gap with the guy who has the contract for gathering the stray cattle - both Mexican and Texan owned - from the Black Gap WMA.I'm gonna get some of the pictures taken from the helicopter and post them on here.
So;Yes, it is absolutely nonsensical to think you can keep eyes on that river along its' entire stretch.And remember,you can't "watch" the bad guys back across, you'd have to drive them back or kill them.You couldn't use the TSA type people.
We can keep up business as usual and intercept some of the drugs.And we should.
But the invasion of the smugglers into our state should have first priority.That means taking the fight to them.On both sides of the river.That means KILLING them , on both sides of the river.
It is being done right now.But you won't hear about it in San Antonio and your birdwatching friends won't see it.We just need to bring it up to wholesale level.
As long as the focus is on capturing the drugs , the cartels just count it as a cost of doing business.When we start killing them in large quantities,that will be a game changer.
Next time you report to Janet Baby , remind her we think she's UGLY.
1. The deployment of military, one every 1/4 mile, may be literally possible... but a totally ignorant/dangerous military strategy... therefore the 'flippant' statement. 8000 per shift is beyond an exaggeration of what it would take to significantly reduce those getting through to safe havens.
2. I never said anything of the sort, show us where 10,000 Mexican trucks come through the Laredo ports per day... another totally erroneous number pull from thin air... therefore a 'flippant' statement about the number...
3. Where did I state there are no solutions to this that aren't 'flippant'... Your statements and numbers are flippant.
4. Define, 'Pulled over'... since 95% of the demographics in the area you are talking about are Hispanic, I guess that 95% of vehicles are pull over by BP regularly... Or is it that you go through check points, as I do if I head to southern Az and even San Diego, Ca on I8... or if on a backcountry rd and approaching a BP truck coming the other way... a quick conversation on anything from illegals to deer sightings or even possibly birdwatching... Oh, I forgot, your context for that statement was... 'Illegals? Sometimes tough to identify in our general population'... therefore flippant again.
Everyplace we have a section of fence in Texas,such as the one in the article , we have forfeited land to Mexico.And you,O'Reilly, and Bachmann want a fence the full length of the border.
You aint in favor of a fence. I am, but 8,000 pairs of boots on the ground 24/7 would be a whole lot cheaper than a fence.
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Now for the trucks and rail cars question: I've SEEN the traffic on the bridges at Laredo , Eagle Pass , and Del Rio.And so have you!You know it's not feasible.
How many of those trucks are loaded every day at their point of origins? OK if we inspect just half, offloading and loading again is about equivalent to that task. Make the shippers provide the crews to do it at the Port of Entry and let the trade bear the expense.
500 inspection bays each inspecting 6 trucks every 24 hours would pass 3,000 trucks a day, 50% of the total. Just two such bays per acre would require 250 acres, hardly a problem in South Texas.
Hey, at least as praticable as your plan of identifying and killing drug traffickers South of the Border.
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You would really have to get off the concrete,even get off the roads you can travel in a pickup , even go as close as you can get in a hunting jeep and then get out and walk to even get an idea of just how wild and rough the country is along that river West of the Pecos.
A pretty easy gig from Boca Chica on the Gulf all the way up to past the mouth of the Pecos. And a pretty easy gig again from Boquillas clear to California at least. Leaves us with what? 250 tough miles along your stretch?
Doesn't have to follow every wrinkle, long as its covered. Hey, Mexicans get through there all the time, why can't we?
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That means KILLING them , on both sides of the river.
Well, you aint the first here to suggest shooting illegals on sight.
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It is being done right now.But you won't hear about it in San Antonio and your birdwatching friends won't see it.
One thing experience has shown is that keeping secrets is pretty tough in a free society like ours. So if we really do have killer teams down there it'll get out sooner or later.
Anyhow.... since we are still talking a $35 billion dollar a year trade even WITH our hypothetical "secret killer guys" plugging away down there, it really doesn't really matter WHO knows or dont know about them, bird watchers or otherwise.
"Step up the game"? I reckon the surest way to unify all of Mexico against us would be to invade. How much we care about WHAT Mexicans think of us is another issue.
But just how many do we shoot? The drug trade down there has become practically a grassroots industry.
1. The deployment of military, one every 1/4 mile, may be literally possible... but a totally ignorant/dangerous military strategy... therefore the 'flippant' statement. 8000 per shift is beyond an exaggeration of what it would take to significantly reduce those getting through to safe havens.
Who said military? I was thinking Border Patrol, we have more than that out there in the boonies every day already, with NO ONE within a half mile or quarter mile.
Actually I'd figure more than 30,000 personnel would be needed for 24/7 coverage of 2,000 miles of Border. About as many as just one school district in Houston already employs.
Those 8,000 on the line at anyone one time would individually be in less peril than your average isolated rural US citizen living along the Border already is. And I would think merely being seen crossing by folks in uniform with guns and radios would NOT brighten up yer average smuggler's day.
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2. I never said anything of the sort, show us where 10,000 Mexican trucks come through the Laredo ports per day...
A typo early this morning, you'll note I've been using 6,000 since then as per...
since 95% of the demographics in the area you are talking about are Hispanic, I guess that 95% of vehicles are pull over by BP regularly...
While driving slowly along backroads looking into the brush, we do that regularly and we get pulled over regularly. The most distant has been about twenty miles later on an interstate after a guy on foot got on his radio.
More than a stop for a check on welfare, but instead flashing lights in the mirror followed by "may I see your ID's, are you citizens, what is your business etc etc" But the point remains, getting stopped doesn't bother us at all.
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'Illegals? Sometimes tough to identify in our general population'...
What? You can pick 'em out on sight? (note, "our general population" ain't out walking in the brush).
The REAL point here is, you are reaching hard for a put down....
even if it means allying yourself with a guy who DOESN"T want a fence, thinks its impossible to watch the whole Border, and basically states that effective interdiction of truck-bound traffic isn't possible.
But, since my statements are all grounded on truth, ya dont really got much to work with.
With guys like you and TRH teaching our kids,it just adds to the urgency of getting the border violence under control NOW.The members of the upcoming generation who lack proper parental guidance will be poorly equipped to defend themselves against violent criminals bent on killing and mayhem,OR the insidious encroachment of a "Global citizen" worldview which will destroy this country.
If FOX ever decides to return to the "Hannity and Colmes" format,you would be a natural to replace Alan Colmes.You throw out some glib "solution" to every valid point made against your arguments or misstate the point and then refute it.
It would be interesting to see your point by point refutation of the report on the border violence made by the two General Officers commissioned by the State of Texas to study it.
Then refute LtPowell's comments about the "under the radar" operations being conducted by State Game Wardens ,DPS Troopers , and Rangers.
It is not surprising that ALL your "solutions" are of the Big Government kind.You would hire thousands more BP Agents , ignoring the fact that the "rampant corruption" in that Agency is a direct result of drastically increasing its' size.Then you would offload the cargo of half the northbound trucks,creating a perfect distribution center for the cartels.
["OK,Juan and Felipe,y'all take two bales of grass from the red Mack, 5 kilos of coke from the Volvo, and put 'em on the white Freightliner that's bound for Chicago".]
Mine and your disagreement can be summed up just this simply and it shows why any further discussion with you about the BORDER VIOLENCE is a waste of time :
I agree with the Generals that we are in a war with the drug cartels.A war for territory in the State of Texas.I propose we fight the war using military tactics , with a mix of personnel-military and Civilian Agencies-just like the Generals.
I'm obliged,Greg.He uses the Liberal's trick of lumping illegal migrants looking for work [I say don't shoot,but deport]- cartel "guides" [shoot]- drug smugglers [shoot]-cartel sentries[shoot]- all together.
Funny how I get called a Mex-lover when I propose a bracero program.Then when I mentioned how we fed the ones who came into camp cold and hungry a couple of years ago , a few of our Northern brethren thought I should be locked up for "aiding and abetting criminals".
It is too difficult for them to admit that we are in a WAR along the border.If they do admit it , then ALL Mexicans coming across are the enemy and should be shot.
I'm obliged,Greg.He uses the Liberal's trick of lumping illegal migrants looking for work [I say don't shoot,but deport]- cartel "guides" [shoot]- drug smugglers [shoot]-cartel sentries[shoot]- all together.
Funny how I get called a Mex-lover when I propose a bracero program.Then when I mentioned how we fed the ones who came into camp cold and hungry a couple of years ago , a few of our Northern brethren thought I should be locked up for "aiding and abetting criminals".
It is too difficult for them to admit that we are in a WAR along the border.If they do admit it , then ALL Mexicans coming across are the enemy and should be shot.
It's a strange mix of folks we have.
I don't know if it's a "Tactic" or the end product of a somewhat [bleep] up mind,.....
Edited by Birdwatcher (Today at 06:24 AM) Edit Reason: No point in being inflammatory
LOL! humorous indeed... Like I've cared if you've been inflammatory to me in the past. I ignore it the same as all the other fluff you add to disguise your backpedals.
This is an old argument that BW started back in the original thread of Mr. Krentz's murder. It will continue in the future I imagine.
I was very literal in the term 'Flippant' as it pertained to the three statements... as it proved out with the retractions and modifications of said statements... I didn't use it in the allegorical sense or personal.
Thanks for the correction Cross, and I appreciate the refereeing.
Sir, if an apology is called for then you have it. But how else can one interdict drug traffickers on this side of the Border other than according to the Rule of Law?
For my own part I'd want the equivalent of Spec Ops BP teams for patrolling areas such as the Chiricahuas, BP teams because MOST of what they would end up doing would be providing aid and assistance to apprehended detainees. Emerging drone technology would probably applied too. The issue of airborne ordinance on call if needed would have to be resolved.
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u would hire thousands more BP Agents , ignoring the fact that the "rampant corruption" in that Agency is a direct result of drastically increasing its' size.
Im am fully aware of the scale of corruption problems, that being my greatest fear. When the cartels become "us", as if we are becoming Mexico with respect to Law Enforcement, then we as a nation are screwed. If we CANNOT as a country deploy a large and principled agency to watch our Border we might as well hang it up. I believe that we can.
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Then refute LtPowell's comments about the "under the radar" operations being conducted by State Game Wardens ,DPS Troopers , and Rangers.
I am/was fully aware of those comments, the incidents I am familiar with being along the river. I expect most Border residents are aware of them also, in general terms if not specifics.
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It is not surprising that ALL your "solutions" are of the Big Government kind.
SOME form of gevernment has to do it, State or Federal, and surely defending our Border is a legitimate Federal function.
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Then you would offload the cargo of half the northbound trucks,creating a perfect distribution center for the cartels.
["OK,Juan and Felipe,y'all take two bales of grass from the red Mack, 5 kilos of coke from the Volvo, and put 'em on the white Freightliner that's bound for Chicago".]
Point of reference: THE EQUIVALENT OF SIXTY SEMI TRUCK LOADS OF DRUGS PRESENTLY CROSSING FROM NUEVO LAREDO EVERY DAY. Based on estimates that 1 - 3% of what crosses is contraband. That is the status quo.
Aint fer nothing the Cartels fight so much among themselves to control the major Ports of Entry, these gotta be the jewels in the crown of the cartel world.
I would offload ALL the Northbound trucks if I could. Heck, expand the facility to 1,000 plus acres. Fence it in as a customs area. With Customs personnel overseeing the process, restricted access, surveillance cameras, the works.
Much as our side of the big International Bridge outside of Laredo presently is. I haven't seen it, even from the American side, we couldn't get close enough without going into a monitored, fenced-in facility.
Would some drugs get through? Sure. But on the scale of the present? Not at all.
Lots of attention here and some in the media on Border crossings and armed Narcos/Coyotes, and these are indeed grevious problems demanding immediate attention.
Seems like though we have been mostly ignoring our major conduit of contraband entry... legitimate commerce. We HAVE to address that problem, or might as well give up on interdiction entirely.
Rick Perry Says Drug War �May Require Our Military in Mexico� (Charles Krupa/AP Photo)
Texas Gov. Rick Perry spent today campaigning in New Hampshire, hammering away at his message that �over-taxation, over-regulation, and over-litigation� are hurting business and the U.S. economy, but he also advocated for a larger government role in the war on drugs.
At a house party in Manchester, Perry said that ending the drug war in Mexico �may require our military in Mexico.�
�The way that we were able to stop the drug cartels in Colombia was with a coordinated effort,� Perry said. �It may require our military in Mexico working in concert with them to kill these drug cartels and to keep them off of our border and to destroy their networks. I don�t know all the scenarios that are out there but I think it is very important that we work with them, to keep that country from failing.�
The comments raise questions about whether the governor would support military action by executive order. Perry has long supported sending U.S. troops to Mexico to help with the drug war.
Over and over Perry said that as president he would be sure to shrink the role of Washington, D.C., in the lives of Americans.
Complete with colorful props, Perry vowed to do away with as much of the health care law passed by Congress � what he referred to as �Obamacare� � as he could. At one stop he pulled out the Sharpie he said he would use to sign it away. At another stop, he pulled out his pocket Constitution, saying that �Obamacare� wasn�t in there.
At every stop, Perry was questioned about the Texas bill giving out-of-state tuition to children of illegal immigrants. He said it was a state solution to a state problem and that as president, he would uphold the 10th Amendment. He said that he did not support the Dream Act.
Many seemed satisfied with Perry�s justification for signing the Texas bill. Bill Connors, who first asked the governor about his stance, said he came to the town hall in Hampton sure that he would not be voting for Perry. But based on Perry�s justification, he said he was now �thinking about it.�
When questioned about his stance on global warming, Perry reiterated that he�s a �skeptic.�
�The issue is, are we as Americans going to jeopardize the future of this country economically, by putting into place a program that there are still enough skeptics in my book, to stand with them, and say, you know what, I don�t believe that man-made global warming is settled in science enough for us to justify an economic impact on this country that could be devastating for the future,� he said.
But on the subject of off-shore drilling, he said, �We have to be thoughtful; we use science on how we protect our environment. But we�ve got to get back to drilling.�
Asked about American manufacturing and bringing jobs back to the United States, Perry said it was cap-and-trade policies that were causing companies to go overseas and do business.
Perry also revealed that he was consulting with Steve Forbes regarding his economic and monetary policy. Perry and Forbes met during Perry�s recent trip to New York.
�I think at the end of the day, Perry will win the nomination, and I think he�ll win the election,� Forbes said.
ABC News� Michael Falcone contributed to this article.
Ok, Perry is in this article, addressing National issues. If he continues to go down this path and become more forceful and specific, He'll garner more support from Tea party voters/independents, and divide himself from the candidates that run on their past state accomplishments, instead of running on future National issues.
At this point it's worth remarking that "Mexico" has made NO riposte / response to Perry's now week old comment re: our military onshore there........I would have expected a bit of a furor, myself.
Getting any news / straight skinny whatever out of there becomes more difficult by the moment, The journalists have gone below ground, and now the bloggers are getting whacked.
Crap, that sprta' situation used to be reserved for places like Cambodia, Congo, and such,......
....as expected,..belicose and confrontational responses.
I say it's time for a DMZ,.....on THEIR side, mind you.
GTC
Link: http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/90061894?Perry%26%23146%3Bs proposal of U.S. troops in Mexico creates
Perry�s proposal of U.S. troops in Mexico creates criticism
Source: (AHN) Reporter: Tom Ramstack Location: Washington, DC, United States Published: October 4, 2011 02:42 pm EDT
Presidential candidate Rick Perry is stirring up a firestorm of controversy in Latin America with his recent comment that if he is elected next year he would consider sending American troops into Mexico to fight drug cartels. clearpxl
Mexico�s diplomats and political commentators are responding by saying they would never allow American troops in their country.
During a campaign stop in Manchester, NH, Perry said, �It may require our military in Mexico working in concert with them to kill these drug cartels and to keep them off of our border and to destroy their network.�
Witnesses in recent congressional hearings on the drug war have said Mexico risks losing control over its own people and government unless it can end the corrupting influence of the cartels.
More than 41,000 people have been killed in the war since Mexican President Felipe Calderon sent troops to help fight the gangs in December 2006.
�I don�t know all the different scenarios that would be out there,� Perry said. �But I think it is very important for us to work with them to keep that country from failing.�
He took the tough stance against Mexican drug cartels after being accused by his political adversaries during a televised debate last month of being soft on illegal immigration.
Perry�s comments are playing big in Mexico�s news media this week as political leaders say American troops in their country would trample their sovereignty as a nation.
Arturo Sarukhan, Mexico�s ambassador to the United States, said, �The issue of participation or presence of U.S. troops on Mexican soil is not on the table.�
American troops are �not a component� of the strategy against transnational crime, Sarukhan said at a press conference.
He also said Mexico has made its position against U.S. military intervention clear �for a long time.�
The Mexican newspaper La Vanguardia warned in an editorial that American troops in Mexico would backfire if it becomes a U.S. policy.
�For Mexico, the direct U.S. aid to fight drug trafficking, with the dispatch of troops, as proposed by Texas Gov. Rick Perry, would represent a serious intrusion into its sovereignty,� the editorial said. �For the United States itself, a proposal such as that would involve a clear confrontation with the Latin American drug empire in a neighboring country, with the risk of a serious escalation of violence too close to the border along the Rio Grande, which could even reach into U.S. territory.�
The U.S. government has sent National Guard troops to the border and provided advisors to the Mexican military. In addition, the U.S. government uses airborne drones to monitor drug cartel movements. Mexican troops fly in helicopters provided by the U.S. armed forces.
However, the idea of sending troops into Mexico to fight the cartels directly far outstrips any previous proposals considered by the U.S. government, according to American diplomats.
Deputy Secretary of State William J. Burns recently described the boundaries of U.S. foreign policy to the news media.
�There are clear limits to our role,� Burns said. �Our role is not to conduct operations. It is not to engage in law enforcement activities. That is the role of the Mexican authorities. And that�s the way it should be.�
Perry�s idea of sending in troops is reviving Mexicans� resentment as their tempers simmer over Operation Fast and Furious, an American law enforcement effort to track illegal guns smuggled into Mexico.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) allowed thousands of guns to be purchased illegally at American gun shops then smuggled across the border. ATF agents hoped to track them to their ultimate users among drug cartels.
Instead, the ATF lost track of many of the guns. Some of them later were traced to murders of police and civilians.
The Mexican government demanded an apology as details of the operation were reported in the American news media earlier this year. Congress continues to investigate.
I remember what Mexico used to be like... this story concerns a couple subjects here...
The violent changes in Mexico and the ability to recognize cultural differences in a person, by seeing with your mind and not just your eyes.
I spent many days in Cabo during the 90s, made many local friends, by not being fake, touristy, or condescending... but by being personable honestly. I was invited in many homes, accepted humbly and was treated graciously.
In Cabo, most there came from the mainland to work the tourist industry. A friend I knew from multiple trips, invited me to see Guadalajara when visiting family on furlough. I went and the city was very interesting in an 'old world' setting, architecture and people.
We are having breakfast as a group at a open cafe in downtown, amidst all the cathedrals and such, very European feeling. My friend's sister say's... look, more americans...
I glance over and there are five or so lilly white, blonde people enjoying the morning at a table. I turn back and say... nope, european, probably German or Dutch.
With a puzzled look she say's, Really? how can you tell so easy?
It's one of those things that you can't explain... they had angular faces, they were all the same... even in an american family you have diversity, from husband to wife to children... they were too 'pure' maybe... I just knew without thinking about it.
Went over and had a pleasant, tourist to tourist chat... and they were German.
I can pretty much do the same at Disneyland or the Grand Canyon.
Though Canadians are tough to tell immediate.
For those of us that have extensive relations with illegals, it's very easy to tell. Border patrol agents have that relationship. Illegals have certain mannerisms, cloths, haircuts, vehicle... I swear, they can be here 10 years and still wear cloths that just shout... Mexican... it's humorous, and I've teased them many times on the job site, they usually just shrug.
Now, if an illegal was smart enough to transform their demeanor,and looks to an American style, well it wouldn't be obvious at first glance. For sure, Americans haven't taken up looking like illegals as a style, yet... though in this world it may be the new vogue... from Nerds to rappers to illegals.
Illegals purposely do not attempt to fit in, ten years here and still can't speak english... I don't know why, and they have never been able to explain it to me.
Anyway, the days of enjoying a breakfast in Mexico, in a quaint location... a day on the water with a pole. Gone... too bad.
Of course, the Mexican government doesn't want American troops... they are not conducting a 'War on Drugs'... they are in a fight for the money coming back into Mexico from the sale of drugs.
War on drugs is a farce/catch phrase that is propaganda at it's best... and when politicians use it, exposes their ignorance of the real issues.
I remember about the time Fox was elected. It was a big deal to the average citizen in Mexico. I heard in many voices the 'Hope' of real change... how restrictive the outgoing leaders had been and disgusted the average person was with that government.
Nothing changed and it is now beyond worse, they are between the hammer and the anvil. I have no solutions for their plight, have empathy for those that stay in Mexico... can't have empathy anymore, for those coming here and creating a cultural/entitlement/criminal cancer that is bringing this country to it's knees.
So you want to do away with the "rule of law" in criminal situations?? This from a person who's too scared to do anything but type on the i'net. Remember the example i gave you, involving you or anyone on a traffic stop, being stopped on trumped up probable cause, pulled out of a veh. and beaten for resisting arrest.
Think about it, do you really want to do away with, "rule of law"?? You'ld be the first and the loudest person screaming, that your "rights we're violated". But that's what you get, since we've dropped "rule of law" in this country.
Crossfire, your not going to do anything more then your already doing and that's posting on the i'net. Your too damn scared to do anything else. Because your afraid of being arrested and prosecuted. Don't come on here and act like a big dog, if your too scared to get off the porch.
So quit talking crap about things that you don't, and your other county citizens don't have the guts to do, ref. to illegals. Do you realize that while you were posting this crap, that illegals were entering into your county/community? What are you doing about it?? I've never seen an illegal or a drug smuggler apprehended by someone posting on the i'net.
You will do nothing involving hands-on interdiction of illegals or drug smugglers, even in your own community. How do you expect to tell others in the SW how to do this or that, when your unwilling or fearful of doing it yourself? Why don't you lead from the front for once, instead of from behind a computer screen. About the only thing you'll do in this issue, is chit if you eat regularly.
So you want to do away with the "rule of law" in criminal situations?? This from a person who's too scared to do anything but type on the i'net. Remember the example i gave you, involving you or anyone on a traffic stop, being stopped on trumped up probable cause, pulled out of a veh. and beaten for resisting arrest.
Think about it, do you really want to do away with, "rule of law"?? You'ld be the first and the loudest person screaming, that your "rights we're violated". But that's what you get, since we've dropped "rule of law" in this country.
Crossfire, your not going to do anything more then your already doing and that's posting on the i'net. Your too damn scared to do anything else. Because your afraid of being arrested and prosecuted. Don't come on here and act like a big dog, if your too scared to get off the porch.
So quit talking crap about things that you don't, and your other county citizens don't have the guts to do, ref. to illegals. Do you realize that while you were posting this crap, that illegals were entering into your county/community? What are you doing about it?? I've never seen an illegal or a drug smuggler apprehended by someone posting on the i'net.
You will do nothing involving hands-on interdiction of illegals or drug smugglers, even in your own community. How do you expect to tell others in the SW how to do this or that, when your unwilling or fearful of doing it yourself? Why don't you lead from the front for once, instead of from behind a computer screen. About the only thing you'll do in this issue, is chit if you eat regularly.
A heck of alot more then you do. What have you ever done regarding the law? So what you going to do about your illegals and drug smugglers in your community? You going i'net them into apprehension? Your too afraid to do anything, cause your too scared of the law.
A heck of alot more then you do. What have you ever done regarding the law? So what you going to do about your illegals and drug smugglers in your community? You going i'net them into apprehension? Your too afraid to do anything, cause your too scared of the law.
A heck of alot more then you do. What have you ever done regarding the law? So what you going to do about your illegals and drug smugglers in your community? You going i'net them into apprehension? Your too afraid to do anything, cause your too scared of the law.
What's wrong, you can't accept the fact that your too scared to do anything about the illegals & drug smugglers in your own community? You'll never do a darn thing about them. As i've stated your too scared of the law. You won't do anything, because your afraid of being arrested and prosecuted. How are you going to stand out as a leader in your community on this issue? If your too afraid to step out of your little box and lead. You not going to fix the issue by posting "Woe is us stories".
That's the issue of the majority who complain about this issue. They complain about it, but will not do any hands-on involvement to force the illegals or drug smugglers out. It's always that saying of, "some day". You and many other border residents are too fearful of being arrested and possibly prosecuted.
You "piss & whine", about the Govt. and the Govt's inability to stop the illegals & drug smugglers, yet your too coward as a citizen to do anything about it. Even in your own community. How come we're not reading in the news that Citizens of Cochise Co. force illegals and drug smugglers back across the border, that or apprehend illegals or drug smugglers. It's always about someone else doing the dirty work for you, isn't it? Your too damn scared of the law, to do anything.
"The point is that if he posts something and i question it. I don't respond to every thread he posts, ref. the border. Many, i don't say a thing about. He doesn't like anyone who questions, what he posts. It's all the truth, because he believes it comes off the net, and not from mainstream media.
Then if you make a comment that's not par for his, he'll cuss you. So i just give him his own medicine back. I'm not going to run and hide about an issue that i feel strongly about, illegal drugs in this country. An issue that i deal with daily.
Being told you know nothing about it by a person who's never done the job in their life, yet does nothing but posts stories on the 'net. Isn't going to fix the issues at hand.
BTW Crossy, doesn't own this site he has no exclusive right to what he posts, to not be questioned. Also Crossfire is 50% of the him & i. "
Coherent text exemplified, and thee very cream of American "Law Enforcement" personified.
I don't respond to every thread you post. This one was just another example of you "whining & crying", yet you don't have the balls to do anything, but "whine & cry" about the issue.
Why don't you go to Mexico and help fight the cartels? You won't because again, your too damn scared to do anything but post on the i'net.
You won't ever do anything, even in your own community, because your too darn scared of LE. You talk this "gun & rope" crap, but your too cowardice to do it. Because you know you'ld be arrested and prosecuted.
I don't respond to every thread you post. This one was just another example of you "whining & crying", yet you don't have the balls to do anything, but "whine & cry" about the issue. Why don't you go to Mexico and help fight the cartels?
You won't ever do anything, because your too darn scared of LE. You talk this "gun & rope" crap, but your too cowardice to do it. Because you know you'ld be arrested and prosecuted.
GODDAM !,....did you see that ?
Nigeria, or Honduras....[bleep], I always though Uganda.
I don't respond to every thread you post. This one was just another example of you "whining & crying", yet you don't have the balls to do anything, but "whine & cry" about the issue. Why don't you go to Mexico and help fight the cartels?
You won't ever do anything, because your too darn scared of LE. You talk this "gun & rope" crap, but your too cowardice to do it. Because you know you'ld be arrested and prosecuted.
GODDAM !,....did you see that ?
Nigeria, or Honduras....[bleep], I always though Uganda.
English,....the great leveler of playing fields.
"American LEO" my azz,.....
GTC
You need to look in your own backyard, before you start giving English advise, shorty. What's all the periods.... that you.... have to add..... whenever you write......?
Why do you always have to go off track on a thread? This issue is about the issues going on in Mex. and how it effects this country.
If your so "Rah, Rah, Rah, for the Mexicans", why don't you go down to Mexico and help fight the Cartels? You claim to be such a great shooter and have so much knowledge of tactics. Along with the fact that you speak the language and know the area.
The issue is you won't do a darn thing, that's outside of your level of comfort. If this "Poor pitiful Mexican" issue is so important to you, why don't you have the strength to go fight the Cartels in Mexico?
Your too damn scared to leave your little piece of the world and do anything. The same reason you don't do anything within your own community. Your too scared of LE arresting & prosecuting you. You have to have someone else do your dirty work for you.
I ignore it the same as all the other fluff you add to disguise your backpedals.
Usually you sieze upon something irrelevant, and claim victory. My money says you were unaware of the sheer volume of legitimate commerce from Mexico into Texas, even most TEXANS are (as was I, before I looked).
Some stats we don't discuss much here....
Dependending on where ya look, you get different answers to the volume of truck traffic. And on the topic of how MUCH contraband is coming in it would prob'ly behoove all of us to educate ourselves.
Best site I could come up with is the National Drug Intelligence Center, but even there specific stats are frustratingly hard to come by. Like for example total drug seizures annually at the Laredo Port of Entry.
The Laredo POE is the largest inland POE in the United States and one of the busiest, handling between 6,000 and 9,000 commercial vehicles per day.
Add to that the considerable offloading of containers from flatbeds railcars on our side and my typo 10,000 semis per day could be right after all.
One stat even YOU shouldn't have a problem with is the equivalent of 60 semis of drugs a day coming up I 35.
An almost entirely unaddressed issue as it turns out is rail (same link)....
However, the extent of smuggling by railroad is relatively unknown because of difficulties that law enforcement officials encounter in inspecting railcars, particularly their size and number. For example, one train car containing 50 boxcars can carry 5,000 tons (or 10 million pounds) of cargo.
About 650 railcars per day come inbound at Laredo and Eagle Pass (just down the block by Texas standards).
Looking at the other end of the snake, how much cocaine are Americans consuming?
Here's an interesting study, turns out you can detect an awful lot from treated sewage effluent ("grey water", fit for contact recreation, fishing etc....)
For example in New York, IBMP teams searched the Hudson River and found the by-products of a projected cocaine consumption totaling 16.4 tons per year. There are approximately 3.4 million people aged 15 to 65 living in the Hudson's watershed.
Note that they are talking the Hudson watershed not NYC, (there's way more than 3.4 million in NYC alone), these people are pretty much a cross section of America.
Wiki has it that Americans consume about 330 tons of cocaine (300,000 kilos) of cocaine annually. In 2006 we intercepted about 27,000 kilos along the whole US/Mexican Border. Ballparks to the 10% interception rate I have heard quoted.
The comments raise questions about whether the governor would support military action by executive order. Perry has long supported sending U.S. troops to Mexico to help with the drug war.
I'd like to think people there would greet us as saviors, but its hard to imagine it would be anything but an enormous cluster f***, especially if in cooperation with the Mexican government.
I believe collateral damage (or claimed collateral damage) involving the inevitable deaths (or claimed deaths) of non-combatants would soon cloud the issue.
'Nother question not answered is how much your average Jose Mexican on the street (the whole country, not just the Border regions) feels put upon by the drug trade. I have heard from a Mexican national (legal immigrant) whose opinion I respect that nothing would unite the whole country against us like US troops on Mexican soil.
NEVER ,....and I mean NEVER read what's been posted before......
"I have heard from a Mexican national (legal immigrant) whose opinion I respect "
....and HOLD whatever thoughts evolve therefrom.
I'd personally ASK you to quit QUICKLY, and PROMISCUOUSLY demonizing other Border Folks,...and AGAIN extend an invitation to the upcoming event in S.E. Az.
Whining about the "Drive" don't cut it,....
GTC
%26%23146%3Bs proposal of U.S. troops in Mexico creates
Perry�s proposal of U.S. troops in Mexico creates criticism
Source: (AHN) Reporter: Tom Ramstack Location: Washington, DC, United States Published: October 4, 2011 02:42 pm EDT
Presidential candidate Rick Perry is stirring up a firestorm of controversy in Latin America with his recent comment that if he is elected next year he would consider sending American troops into Mexico to fight drug cartels. clearpxl
Mexico�s diplomats and political commentators are responding by saying they would never allow American troops in their country.
During a campaign stop in Manchester, NH, Perry said, �It may require our military in Mexico working in concert with them to kill these drug cartels and to keep them off of our border and to destroy their network.�
Witnesses in recent congressional hearings on the drug war have said Mexico risks losing control over its own people and government unless it can end the corrupting influence of the cartels.
More than 41,000 people have been killed in the war since Mexican President Felipe Calderon sent troops to help fight the gangs in December 2006.
�I don�t know all the different scenarios that would be out there,� Perry said. �But I think it is very important for us to work with them to keep that country from failing.�
He took the tough stance against Mexican drug cartels after being accused by his political adversaries during a televised debate last month of being soft on illegal immigration.
Perry�s comments are playing big in Mexico�s news media this week as political leaders say American troops in their country would trample their sovereignty as a nation.
Arturo Sarukhan, Mexico�s ambassador to the United States, said, �The issue of participation or presence of U.S. troops on Mexican soil is not on the table.�
American troops are �not a component� of the strategy against transnational crime, Sarukhan said at a press conference.
He also said Mexico has made its position against U.S. military intervention clear �for a long time.�
The Mexican newspaper La Vanguardia warned in an editorial that American troops in Mexico would backfire if it becomes a U.S. policy.
�For Mexico, the direct U.S. aid to fight drug trafficking, with the dispatch of troops, as proposed by Texas Gov. Rick Perry, would represent a serious intrusion into its sovereignty,� the editorial said. �For the United States itself, a proposal such as that would involve a clear confrontation with the Latin American drug empire in a neighboring country, with the risk of a serious escalation of violence too close to the border along the Rio Grande, which could even reach into U.S. territory.�
The U.S. government has sent National Guard troops to the border and provided advisors to the Mexican military. In addition, the U.S. government uses airborne drones to monitor drug cartel movements. Mexican troops fly in helicopters provided by the U.S. armed forces.
However, the idea of sending troops into Mexico to fight the cartels directly far outstrips any previous proposals considered by the U.S. government, according to American diplomats.
Deputy Secretary of State William J. Burns recently described the boundaries of U.S. foreign policy to the news media.
�There are clear limits to our role,� Burns said. �Our role is not to conduct operations. It is not to engage in law enforcement activities. That is the role of the Mexican authorities. And that�s the way it should be.�
Perry�s idea of sending in troops is reviving Mexicans� resentment as their tempers simmer over Operation Fast and Furious, an American law enforcement effort to track illegal guns smuggled into Mexico.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) allowed thousands of guns to be purchased illegally at American gun shops then smuggled across the border. ATF agents hoped to track them to their ultimate users among drug cartels.
Instead, the ATF lost track of many of the guns. Some of them later were traced to murders of police and civilians.
The Mexican government demanded an apology as details of the operation were reported in the American news media earlier this year. Congress continues to investigate.
NEVER ,....and I mean NEVER read what's been posted before......
"I have heard from a Mexican national (legal immigrant) whose opinion I respect "
....and HOLD whatever thoughts evolve therefrom.
Not sure the point you're making Cross. I don't think its a stretch to suggest US troops on the ground in Mexico could stir up enormous resentment with the rank and file across the country.
Doesn't really matter what they think when it comes to our own survival of course, but I dunno we could accomplish what we would want without a long-term presence there AND cooperation from the reg'lar folks there.
Heck, we cant even pass a law with teeth on our side for doing basic ID/citizenship checks, how is a military presence in Mexico gonna play?
On the "legal Mexican National" issue, lots moving into our area, best classed as sort of refugees, needing another alternative to living on their side of the Border.
Quote
Whining about the "Drive" don't cut it,....
I appreciate the invite but a thirty hour round-trip travelling time is a bit much even fer me...
Get back on track as to why your too coward to go to Mex. and fight the cartels on behalf of the Mex. citizens. Your the one on here claiming the "Poor poor Mex's" everyday. But you don't have balls to go to Mex.and help these poor folks, as you claim they are.
Pretty darn sad, all you do is hide behind a computer screen, talking about things that you claim to know more about then anyone else here, but won't leave your comfort zone, because your too frightened to go to Mex. and help those that you so dearly talk about.
Get back on track as to why your too coward to go to Mex. and fight the cartels on behalf of the Mex. citizens. Your the one on here claiming the "Poor poor Mex's" everyday. But you don't have balls to go to Mex.and help these poor folks, as you claim they are.
One does have to wonder why you have such a hard-on for Cross.
Do you "have balls to go to Mex" and fight for justice? For my own part, I wouldn't know where to begin.
It's the fact that he sings this song of, "Woe is the Mexicans in Mexico". Yet will not leave his comfort zone to go fight against the Cartels for the Mex. citizens in Mexico. The same with defending his own community from incoming illegals and drug smugglers. It's always about someone else doing the hands-on duties. The illegals and drug smugglers are not going to be removed by posting stories on the i'net.
Crossfire reminds me of the Boy that cried Wolf. One day we just won't hear from him no more. Will be a sad day, but we all know that we need to take of of the business outside our backdoor. Not wait around for someone else to come to the rescue.
I ignore it the same as all the other fluff you add to disguise your backpedals.
Usually you sieze upon something irrelevant, and claim victory. Birdwatcher
Well, since I specifically seized upon your three comments... and if you wish propose those comments are irrelevant now, you'll get no argument from me.
Crossfire reminds me of the Boy that cried Wolf. One day we just won't hear from him no more. Will be a sad day, but we all know that we need to take of of the business outside our backdoor. Not wait around for someone else to come to the rescue.
You being the one missing, and pretty much better being thus.
.......That which would garner attention,...FOUL, MOUTHY , DISRESPECTFUL,...but wanting to be part of this FIRE
It's the fact that he sings this song of, "Woe is the Mexicans in Mexico". Yet will not leave his comfort zone to go fight against the Cartels for the Mex. citizens in Mexico. The same with defending his own community from incoming illegals and drug smugglers.
I RIDE for either the the Wilson or Rutherford County S.O., THAT is for you sorry "Citizens" to figure. I want to blow Crossfire
It's always about someone else doing the hands-on duties. The illegals and drug smugglers are not going to be removed by posting stories on the i'net.
Crossfire reminds me of the Boy that cried Wolf. One day we just won't hear from him no more. Will be a sad day, but we all know that we need to take of of the business outside our backdoor. Not wait around for someone else to come to the rescue.
This is good,...
Make reflections,...
Damned i-net looks like a tough racket
Let me give you a little "Heads Up", you sorry little POS,
REAL "Hunters" know how to wait,....
You WILL be tracked down and DEALT with,..
Than and again , you and the mouthy prick from Tenn. could just try and fill yer' pathetic, empty BOOTS.
Crossfire reminds me of the Boy that cried Wolf. One day we just won't hear from him no more. Will be a sad day, but we all know that we need to take of of the business outside our backdoor. Not wait around for someone else to come to the rescue.
Why do you always have to go off track on a thread? This issue is about the issues going on in Mex. and how it effects this country.
If your so "Rah, Rah, Rah, for the Mexicans", why don't you go down to Mexico and help fight the Cartels? You claim to be such a great shooter and have so much knowledge of tactics. Along with the fact that you speak the language and know the area.
The issue is you won't do a darn thing, that's outside of your level of comfort. If this "Poor pitiful Mexican" issue is so important to you, why don't you have the strength to go fight the Cartels in Mexico?
Your too damn scared to leave your little piece of the world and do anything. The same reason you don't do anything within your own community. Your too scared of LE arresting & prosecuting you. You have to have someone else do your dirty work for you.
"You have to have someone else do your dirty work for you."
No, actually, you are just a filthy piece of dung, dropped out of a sick dog's anus, one who thinks that you, or your kind are NEEDED.
Difference between us , most here,... and dog dung,...that.
You are the Chits,...in no uncertain terms.
The "Self Declaration" bit that you've adapted makes it a whole lot easier to have you around.
Well, since I specifically seized upon your three comments... and if you wish propose those comments are irrelevant now, you'll get no argument from me.
A prime example of the genre (one imagines you shoulda included <snork!><snork!> in the post).
I said....
1) A pair of boots on the ground every 1/4 mile.
You said essentially 'too dangerous for the people involved' as if shooting Americans in uniform on the Border on a regular basis were a viable option for the Cartels.
Common sense dictate that there are areas along the Border where a person every 440 yards would be redundant, especially given the surveillance technology we have now. OTOH there are areas where even every 1/4 mile aint enough.
Unless one is seizing upon semantics of course, the principle of MANNING the line ought not to be that tough... had we the political will.
2) I said 'search every truck'
You didn't address this other than to imply 10,000 inbound trucks a day up I 35 was absurd.
Clearly this is an enormous loophole at present in our defenses. The figures suggest that about five times the amount of contraband that passes through Arizona passes through Texas and THAT number is just based upon prior interdictions, when we already know we are not adequately searching inbound commerce here.
The fact that even with these major commerce routes it is STILL economically viable for the narcos to put cocaine in backpacks and walk it through the remote bush any number of places probably reflects an insatiable demand for the product among our fellow Americans (about 5% of the world population consuming about 50% of the total production of cocaine) .
Cant search every truck? How about a third, a quarter? Like I said, if we cannot search enough to matter (currently we are only interdicting about 10% of the total consumption), why bother with interdiction at all?
3) I said 'its tough to spot illegals in the general population'
You claim that ability.
I've met folks whom I was flat surprised to find were here illegally, and sometimes assumed illegal status where t'werent the case.
Perhaps Texas is different than Arizona: We do have more than nine million Mexican-ancestry American citizens over here (or about 1 1/2 times the entire population of Arizona) forming a clear majority over areas of Texas larger than many entire states. Most are third- and fourth- generation American at least, but there's many first- and second-, the degree of overt acculturation varying at each level on an individual basis.
Anyhoo I believe this is why there are such things like ID's.
Ability to 'spot illegals' aside, I'm all in favor of proving American citizenship by documentation at every turn, much as I would expect to have to do were I overseas. I presume you are too.
Well, since I specifically seized upon your three comments... and if you wish propose those comments are irrelevant now, you'll get no argument from me.
A prime example of the genre (one imagines you shoulda included <snork!><snork!> in the post).
No. I was serious....
BP is being shot at now from across the border, being mobile... 8000 solitary, stationary targets, for when the cartel is bored from chopping folks up... dangerous indeed.
An extremely exaggerated number and...
episodes of racial profiling by BP... based on their inability to recognize illegals from the general public.
Nothing funny about any of that... not much truth or reality either.
Nope, check the actual customs links. About 6,000 semis inbound a day, closing in on two million semis a year. (Apparently you think 10,000 a day wold be an "extremely exagerrated number".).
If I REALLY wanted to play petty I could include the total from nearby Eagle Pass which highway joins I 35 about 100 miles south of San Antone.
The point remains, there exists a very large amount of legitimate commerce, and the interdiction levels relative to what seems a certain level of trafficking are dismally low.
And one more time here's the eerie calm along what is THE major drug ingress point into the United States....
I35 north of Laredo...
...and the infamous railraod bridge crossing the river from Nuevo Laredo...
THREE HUNDRED TONS of cocaine consumed annually by Americans, closing in on a $40 billion dollar a year industry. 10% or less of this trade interdicted at present.
Invading Mexico ain't gonna solve that (no more than we have stopped the herion trade in Afghanistan), neither do criminal penalties seem to deter use (most every high school kid in America has access).
Never mind the impact on Mexico from a Mexican welfare standpoint, we ourselves need a stable and relatively law abiding Mexico on our Southern Border. THIRTY-SEVEN BILLION DOLLARS every year into the hands of the worst elements would ruin most nations, as it has Mexico.
Only two things to do....
1) Effectively interdict; which would require a big step up in commerce inspections and Border security...
or....
2) Decriminalize use.
I'm wondering if drug laws ain't about like gun laws in that just as gun laws have no efect on crime, drug laws have little real effect on usage.
Portugal (pop. 11 million) dcriminalized usage in 2001, offering treatment instead. Ten years later the worst that can be said seems to be their drug problems ain't gotten worse than they were. Many folks claim an actual improvement.
Finally, with respect to the manning the fence deal, are you seriously suggesting we should be INTIMIDATED out of doing so for fear of bad guys with rifles on the other side of the fence? Already BP agents can return fire, surely we have the technology/armaments/finance on had to effectively man the Borderline for a mere fraction of what we spend in the Middle East.
Just like with wars, there ain't no substitute for boots on the ground.
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