Last week my FN Five-Seven blew up causing severe damage to my left hand (I am right handed). There are 6-8 pieces of shrapnel deep in my thumb and palm area which severed the nerves to my thumb and a portion of my palm. Surgery is required in an attempt to repair the hand by harvesting tissue from my leg. Wish me luck.

The �explosion� occurred on the last round of a 30 round mag loaded with the factory 40gr v-max stuff. On this particular day I only had three loaded magazines (70 rounds total) with me for the Five-Seven but had several other handguns to shoot after the Five-Seven. I began with a 20 round mag loaded with hand loads, then a 20 round mag loaded with factory ammo and finished with the 30 round mag with factory ammo. It was the very last round of 5.7x28 in my immediate possession that ruined my day ��. and a whole lot more!!

I have fired (600-700 rounds) both factory and hand loads through the pistol with zero issues since purchasing new in 2/2011. There are reports of the Five-Seven firing out of battery (OOB) which appears to be the case here but I am no weapons forensics expert. I am not a novice to shooting, handguns or reloading and have 20+ years of extensive experience with shooting and reloading.

I have been completely straightforward with FNH (i.e. Browning) so will now wait and see how they respond.

I'm very sorry to hear about your accident! It DOES look like it fired out of battery, doesn't it!

I hope you can get your hand fully functional again.
I will certainly keep you in my prayers.

Ed

I am sorry and will pray for healing. Let us know the outcome. I would guess lawyers at FN are discussing this as well.


ddj

dang....hope your hand repairs OK. nasty looking wreckage.

Wow! Sorry to hear that. Hope you heal quickly!

Thanks for posting this.


Travis

Holy Crap!

What Travis said.

Dang....

Damn.

I bet they blame it on your handloads before it is all over

Ouch, I hope surgery goes perfectly and you get that hand fully functional again. Docs can do amazing stuff nowadays, praying this is one of them.

It sucks in a major way that it happened at all, but at least it happened with factory ammo. Hope Browning/FNH mans up on this and covers your expenses at a minimum.

I think I would have a flinch if I ever shot one of those again (which I wouldn't). Hope you have a full recovery!

Good gawd man! Best of luck in getting that hand back to normal.
Glad it wasn't worse.

that goes without saying....and will probably point you to some fine print in the manual that says the warranty is blown if you shoot handloads. fortunately, you can't waive the implied warranty of fitness....but the fact that handloads were admittedly used in the pistol at some point will make the case more difficult for the plaintiff.

on the other hand, maybe FN will want to get it quietly settled, particularly if they know you will be keeping tens of thousands of their potential customers posted on the progress of your claim.

Wow!
I hope you make a good recovery.
Having firearms blow up is not fun.
I had a sxs blow up on me 5 years ago but fortunately I only ended up with a small thumb injury.

Oh man! That hurts to just look at it. Wishing you the best recovery and fair treatment by the manufacture. Please keep us updated on this.

If you have a lawyer, he probably isn't too happy you posted about using handloads on an Internet forum. If you don't have one, maybe you should have talked to him before you did.

I do think it would be wise to edit that part of the OP.

From a quick glance around the internet, the first thing they'll say is for you to send the handgun to them - at which point they will destroy it.

Time to figure out if you want to sue is BEFORE you send it in. Looks like they'll just replace it for free, at best. Get an inspection done on it by a competent third party before shipping it to them is my suggestion.

he's going to be asked the question under oath, so it really doesn't matter. I don't think he's planning to commit perjury when he's asked.

Sucks,..Hope you get full use of your hand back. Glad you're okay and didn't lose an eye or something more important.

Not sure what FN will do,..pleas keep us posted.



I reload myself and have "voided" the warranty on just about everything I own because of it..

FN spells out their dislike on Page 3 in the manual....

Hope this turns out for the best..

Interesting how they lump reloading in with criminal intent...

Be honest, it is not automatic that the handload issue will carry weight, and get a lawyer.

Sorry for the bad fortune, I had a lot of damage to my feet at one time: pain and frustration can really eat a man.

He doesn't have to tell them everything he knows right out of the gate, particularly if he is not looking to retire off of what they pay him.

I can only agree with Steve.

Plus, now that you've posted about it, you remove some of the incentive for them to settle quickly as that thousands of people already know about it and that picture will be forever shown on hundreds of gun forums. One reason they might want to settle is to keep it completely quiet. Too late for that now.

Prayers sent for a full and speedy recovery!

The way I read that safety and warranty notice above seems to leave FAIR CHASE sitting okay. The handgun blew up on factory ammunition, and it was the 30th round of factory ammunition.

"resulting in whole or partly from:
-- the use of reloaded ammunition"


I would think it's going to be FNH's burden to prove that the reloads fired earlier damaged the weapon in a way that led to factory ammo causing this disaster.

Good luck with the hand, it's more important than the rest.

I agree with SteveNO's thoughts on this completely. Their warranty terms are a posture, not The World according to FN-H.

I'm sorry to hear you had this accident. I wish you the best on your recovery.

This sounds more like an ammo problem, than a pistol problem. Sounds like the ammo company messed up...double charge?

Hard to imagine that little pizzant cartridge would wreak so much havoc.

Lawyer up. STFU. Get Rick to delete this thread (probably too late already).

50,000psi......even though its a small cartridge thats still alot of pressure....

+ gazillion.

I know there's plenty of other ways steel framed guns can let go, but it seems like if they do blow a case, the gun pretty much contains the blast, and helps save the hand from injury. I do recall, though, some of the guys who were constantly hot rodding 1911's went to rubber grips with steel inserts, to help protect their hands.

It would be kinda fun to have a Contender carbine in 5.7 - maybe even a PS90 or the AR57.

Prayers on the way for the quick healing of your injuries.

If you sue you will have a hard time proving it was a Factory Round that cause this when you have already stated you were using both Hand-loads and factory during this shooting session at the time the pistol decided to let go. Just thinking out loud.

Wow, I have managed to lock up a Ruger rifle in 300 win mag with a handload, took a two by four to get her open, she still shoots fine, I got lucky.

Hope you heal quick.

Seriously. I've blown a fair number of caseheads with 9mm Major loads and usually the magazine is even OK. That FN cracked up like it was porcelain.

WOW!!!best of luck with recovery,,,,

Did it ever!

Hope the hand heals.

Maybe. I was honest with them and regardless of the outcome, I do not regret being honest. With that said, I will fight if neccessary.

That is my hope.

I have not sent them the pistol and will not do so until I am protected on my end.

Exactly!

Dang!!!

I've always thought highly of FN firearms but it just goes to show you that it's possible with anything.

I hope FN will work with you on your injury but I think you'd best be prepared for a long fight.

The issue of your handloads will definitely come up and I'm sure you'll be accused of using powerful loads that caused metal or plastic fatigue which lead to the accident. (Just thinking out loud)

Hopefully they will be decent about everything and work with you. Keep us posted...

I had four days to consider if and what I post .... and I am OK with what is now public knowledge on the matter.

Maybe. Nope. Why?

Lawyer is always a good idea. First to explain all your options and to help you assess damages current and future which are compensable. Also to insure that anything you sign really means what you think it does. The other side has lawyers, you don't want to be taking a slingshot to a gun fight.

Also STFU, you may inadvertently say something that can be used against you in a court of law.

As long as you stick to the truth you story will never change no matter what the outcome

Get a lawyer for sure and get the gun...chain of custody documented...to a forensics expert. Do it yesterday.

I have been careful with my public words. An injury laywer may very well be in my future.

How much time loss from work are you looking at?

You would be surprised what a half-way competent attorney can make of seemingly safe comments on examination. Then there are those who make an art form of it.

I'd SAY... YOW..

I have a feeling that if it had happened to me I'd be selling everything over a .22rf until I got over the heebie-jeebies..

I pray your hand will fully heal.. Best wishes..

Has anyone been able to create an out of battery firing using just a primed case with one of these 5-7s?

thats actually one of the bigger ones beyond damages.......with something like this you wanna make sure you fully understand anything you sign your name to....

Call an injury lawyer, NOW

Sorry about the hand
It does look like an OOBattery , but it will take forensic testing to prove it.

Hope you heal quickly.

The nature of the ammo is mostly irrelevant to the debate, but firing out of battery is quite relevant. It is a design issue.

That gun needs to remain in your possession or that of your agents, period.

Yes.

At this time, I am not sending the pistol to Browning. They do have several pictures of the pistol.

FYI, That was free advice from a successful lawyer who knows a thing or two about this....

Just sayin'...

Once on the net, forever on the net.

Sorry about the mishap, no matter how it happened, and like Sean said, got see an attorney that deals in products liability.

Okay, so be it. Now, instead of settling quietly with no publicity, it will be the objective of FN to defend the quality of its product by proving that you fricked up instead of the product being fricked up. Since you've already admitted to handloads, I'm guessing that they will say the round in question was a handload or that it was previously damaged by an excessive handload.

Hope you heal well. Too late now, but I would not have published an accounting before things were settled.

Forensics should be able to sort out the brass left in the chamber. But yeah, they're going to probably lean on the handloads in their defense. Also true about making it public.

Did you have any advice from an attorney during your consideration?

Why does everyone assume there will be a lawsuit?

Imagine the world with a few "chit happens" incidents that didn't end up being litigated.

Here's links to Fair Chase's posting found on Google using the search term "FN Five-Seven pistol blow up":

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6205584/1

This one appeared on FN Forum.net. Did you make multiple posts on every forum possible? Bad business to post all the details. Say nothing and call a firearms oriented law office. Cat's out of the bag now though.

http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-five-seven/26196-my-five-seven-exploded.html

http://www.kifaruforums.net/showthread.php?t=28477

http://consumerist.com/2008/05/five-seven-gun-blows-up-in-owners-hand-manufacturer-indifferent.html

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?134212-Five-seveN-Gun-Blows-Up-In-Owner-s-Hand

http://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11854

If you recall, the higher pressure .17 HRM semiauto rifles were recalled from the market place because the rims would blow out due to the blow back actions being too weak. The FN Five-Seven may fire from a delayed locked action, but there is some anomaly occurring. One post mentions a case separation leaving a partial case in the chamber with factory ammo that prevented the breech from closing. I would avoid using any bottle necked case design in a delayed blow back action pistol. This is especially true of high pressure, high velocity cartridges with a fast recoil impulse in a polymer frame pistol. The polymer frame is what failed catastrophically causing much of the damage. Polymer is just not able to handle that kind of stress as would a steel frame. Still, having a pistol that fires before the breech closes is unsafe in all regards, IMHO.

Good luck and I hope the surgery turns out well. I had a nasty tumor removed from my cervical spinal cord, and regained full function, the medical profession can work wonders, as can the healing power of the human body.

Imagine a world where companies could produced defective products that hurt people, and didn't have to answer for it, or compensate people for their injuries caused by defective products.

If it was you looking at the possibility of permanent nerve damage to your hand, and surgery that takes parts off other parts of your body to try to fix, what would you be doing in this situation?

Was this the pistol in question?

DANGER CAUSED BY RELOADED AMMUNITION!
Subject: Five-seveN serial # 386102425
Date: 6-9-2008
The following conclusions are results from FNH USA's evaluation of the Five-seveN serial # 386102425 sent in to our service facility after a failure using reloaded ammunition.
Upon examination of this pistol we were able to determine that it did not fire "out of battery" and the catastrophic failure exhibited in this example was clearly caused by excessive cartridge pressure generated by reloaded ammunition.
Our examination showed that the shoulder of the case was separated from the rest of the cartridge and it was left in place inside the chamber. The position of this piece of brass shows that the handgun was in full battery when the reloaded cartridge was fire and the excessive pressure occurred. Another indicator that confirmed our findings is the primer extruded back into the firing pin hole and a portion of the case head was stuck to the breech face. This was caused by brass flow back into the leaded chamber indicator hole.
Additionally there was serious damage to the slide assembly which is clear evidence of excessive pressure. The lower edge of the breech face was peeled away and the slide itself was deformed from the excessive pressure. The pressure that caused this damage exceeded OEM ammunition standards.
The FN ballistics laboratory was able to duplicate the catastrophic failure almost identically with 2x the load data provided by the consumer. In this test the shoulder of the cartridge was left in the chamber at the same position as #386102425, the slide was damaged in the exact same way as #386102425, and the cartridge case head seperated in the same manner with the brass flowing into the loaded chamber indicator hole.
The design of the Five-seveN pistol, being a recoil operated delayed blow back system, has key parameters that prevent an "out of battery" firing.
Our established testing data indicates the firing pin will not strike the primer of a cartridge after .1180 inch. of rearward slide travel. With the slide moved rearward .1540 - .1545 inch. (true out of battery limit), it is impossible for the firing pin to strike the primer, at this point the trigger lever does not actuate the lever of the firing pin safety. It was also noted in our examination that the firing pin safety was still fully functional on Five-seveN #386102425.
It is FNH USA's finding that the catastrophic failure of Five-seveN #38610xxxx was due completely to excessive pressure caused by the reloaded ammunition and was not the result of an "out of battery" firing.
Please be aware that the owner's manual for the Five-SeveN handgun clearly states on page 4 that FN Herstal declines any responsibility and invalidates any guarantee and liability claims for incidental or consequential damages (injuries, loss of property, commercial loss, lost of earnings and profits, ...) resulting in whole ore partly from the use of reloaded ammunition.
If you have lost or misplaced your owners manual please contact our customer service department at 703-288-3500 x122 for a replacement.
Tommy Thacker
Product Manager
FNH USA, LLC.

"If you have lost or misplaced your owners manual please contact our customer service department at 703-288-3500 x122 for a replacement."

That part made me laugh....

I reread the thread, and find nowhere that the OP mentioned filing a suit. I do see a common denominator for those who assume there is (or should be) one.

I'd like to know how you can get a 2x overload in that dinky little case.

Have any of y'all tried capping a primer with the slide back as FN described? Never hurts to check on their lab results.

Everything they say is entirely logical if it was functioning properly. However, what if they had a machine that turned out a few firing pins that were a few thousandths too long? My guess is that then those test results might not be that valid.

If I read that "conclusion" right, they're claiming, assuming, the firer of the weapon double charged the case, because they produced a similar result by doing so?

That's how it looked to me, Jim.

Then they go and insult the dude by saying "If you lost your manual, we can send you another." That's code for "screw you, and we'll highlight the part about reloads for ya"

Yep.

Oh geeze.. I see some are loading it with W231. I guess that could do it. It's such a tiny case, I'm surprised most don't stick with Lil Gun or 296 or whatever. Seems like you could get 100% load density with those. Can anyone educate me on this?

There are very few horrendous designs out there anymore. Everything pretty much works if the parts are well made and put together right. And there is the rub. If they aren't well made or put together right, then you may have problems.

So, I'm less than impressed by a test on a pistol that was probably gone over with a fine toothed comb to convince me that something is "impossible" in particular design.

Can there be any doubt that Jack Belk will be at the trial.

Yep, they pick out one of their pistols that they have techs be certain is to tolerance, then proceed to "prove" their own assumption.

I hope the mans hand turns out ok at the least, and Fn should help.

Yup, you admitted shooting handloads in it, now your hand is [bleep] and you have a FN paper weight....

You always hold your cards close. If the other guys get a peek they are more likely to challenge, as in go to court or negotiate down. That's just the way it is.

As I previously stated, I was 100% factual in my conservations with FNH before I posted anything online. I know our society is lawsuit happy and often appears that lying, cheating, and stealing is the norm, but sorry cause that ain't me.

It is yet TBD how this will all playout and regardless of the outcome, I will have zero regrets in the manner in which I have responded and reacted to the events on 2/17/12.

Surgery scheduled for Feb 27th to transplant nerve tissue from leg to hand.

I think that's good advice. I'd look for a product liability attorney with firearms experience.

I for one would love to see an objective analysis by an expert to understand just what did happen. Catastrophic happenings regarding firearms affects us all.

DF

no chit on the last part.....had been considering one of these as a fun varmint pistol for gophers......be one thing if bad handloads blew it up but it sure looks like an out of battery firing.....would really like to see an independent lab look it over and give their findings....

Ahh they are all over the TV channels---Lots of PI attorney's

The best is out of Dallas, forgot his name, he has filed many LS against firearm firms. Set on his jury once, against Highstandard I believe on a 6 shooter saying the design was bad. He lost.

HA! Sounds like that fancy PI dude from Dallas wasn't so smart after all, if he let you be on his jury...

I'm sure he did lose that one...

I'm thinking that would be an interesting way to spend a few days.

DF

Lots of folks, it seems, hate attorneys, or at least talk that way.

That is, until they need one...

I'm not one, have no ax to grind, just saying...

DF

Bingo. Still, even when they need one, they resent the hell out of it too.

Atty works his azz off, spending lots of time and money on a big case. Then, when it's won, clients resent paying the fee, when they were out nothing up front.

Without the contingency arrangement regarding cost of litigation, most litigants would be on the outside, looking in. Only the fat cats and big dogs would be able to play. This arrangement levels the playing field.

Our system may not be perfect (it isn't), but it's the best system going.

And, I'm not an atty, just an observer...

DF

Looked it up ------.
Still in business.

I guess it was fun had all the experts from Conn in this Federal court.
As far as the out come, cousin was twirling the 6 shooter like a cowboy (22 pistol was loaded) and it went off. Hit young cousin and cut his spine and put him in a wheel chair for life. WE (the jury) just felt like it was the cowboy cousin and not the guns fault.

Bad part of being part of a Fed jury pool it last for a year so once a month you went to court for a year to see if you got picked. When I got picked, I went up to the judge, with all of the lawyers, and said I don't know if I hear good enough to catch everything. Judge looked at me and said can you hear me right now, I said yes, he said go sit in the jury box.
All 12 voted the same way.

We all felt sorry for the young man, just didn't think the design of the weapon was at fault.

West Texas area

As the lawyer cringed and slunk down into his chair...

I hope you heal well. Sorry for your troubles. That had to hurt.

Then the day comes their son or daughter is accepted into law school, and they're as proud as can be.

I wonder if the FN is prone to having a firing pin stuck in the fired position by brass particles liberated by the extractor or particles liberated during the firing cycle. If the pin sticks then it may either fire out of battery or just as it closes. This has happened in some rifles, the original Mini-14 comes to mind, where full auto fire occurred. Just some speculation driven by curiosity.

In any event, IMHO, the design is defective as the pistol is unable to contain and deflect gasses from a burst cartridge, regardless of the cause. There is nothing to prevent factory ammunition from being overloaded or defective. I had toyed with the idea of purchasing one of these pistols, but the polymer frame turned me off.

Hope your hand heals ok. Somewhat similar incident happens to a local deputy. He was shooting his Glock with factory ammo and it blew up. His hand healed and he is back to work. Ammo company and Glock are arguing back and forth about liability. No resolution yet.

Another local deputy ( my BIL) was shot at close range by a .45. The bullet went through his hand a into his upper leg. He is badly scarred but healed and back to work. The docs were amazing in putting him back together.

Good luck.

Surgery went well yesterday. Repaired the severed nerves and removed most of the schrapnel. It will be a few weeks until it is determined to what degree the surgery was successful.

been there in a motorcycle accident.lost some feeling in my thumb and 1st and 2nd fingers otherwise turned out to be a good job.



a bad day hunting is better than a good day at work.

Mmmmm, yummy. Looks like the slides my dad took of his doctor buddies doing their job in Vietnam. Good luck from all of us.
And I thought gun control mean using both hands!

managed to slice the nerve that controls feeling over most the thumb in my left hand a few years ago due to cold hands and poor knife handling....took awhile but a year after i had done it i had regained bout 50% of the feeling i had lost......still have a good sized spot thats numb but it could take awhile for some of the nerves to repair themselves, longer than a few weeks, so dont be surprised if you get back more than you have 2 months from now though i doubt you will get back it all...

From the looks of that one picture, it appears you sustained quite a lot of soft tissue damage to your hand. That's going to leave some permanent disability, obviously. Hopefully it won't be of any real significance in terms of function of the hand.

As rattler pointed out in his post earlier, sensory nerve damage to one part of the hand is not crippling. It might make some actions more difficult (grasping small objects like gun parts, for instance), but as long as your tendons are intact, you should do fine. FWIW, I severed a major sensory nerve in my right hand in my early twenties (workplace accident), and have minimal sensation in my pinky and part of my ring finger. That doesn't prevent me from being able to do things like finger-pick my guitars, and as some of the boys from Pat's pig palooza can attest, all five of my pickin' fingers work pretty okay.

Anyways, good luck with your recovery, and good luck with your legal issues. Doc

Ouch! Damn that hurts just looking at it. I'm a big fan of all metal guns. Even then that can still happen.

yeah should have added just cause i cant feel anything over a good portion of my thumb from severing some of the sensory nerves i didnt hit any of the motor nerves and my thumb works fine.....just cant feel anything in about 1/3 of it.....was closer to 2/3 when i first sliced it....

Yikes! Just saw this.
Wishing you a full recovery