Everybody knows a Walt Kowalski. He is the grizzled Korean War veteran Clint Eastwood played in the movie Gran Torino. A man who spends his days sitting on the porch, keeping his house and yard immaculate, satisfied to drink his cheap beer while watching his neighborhood and country go to hell around him. He is an anachronism, a dinosaur -- part of the old America where you worked hard, took pride in your work and where you lived, and fought for your country and what it stood for when called upon. Armed with his M1 Garand rifle and 1911 .45 pistol he brought back from the war, he put new meaning in "Get off my lawn."
(Warning: spoilers follow.)
As anyone who has seen the movie knows, Kowalski is recently widowed and terminally ill. He does not have much to live for until he befriends his young Hmong neighbors. After teaching them what honor and self-reliance are, he eventually gives his life for them.
Fewer have heard of Ben Mitchell, who features in the book Enemies Foreign and Domestic. Mitchell is a former Vietnam-era Green Beret operative who paralyzes Washington, D.C. by crippling the Woodrow Wilson Bridge. (Again, spoilers follow.) Though not terminally ill -- yet -- Mitchell does not see much of a future ahead of him and is angered about his friend being set up by the federal government during an unconstitutional gun-grab passed in the heat of the moment by legislators after a tragedy. Before losing his life, however, he manages to take out most of the federal law enforcement team sent against him.
Both of these men are fictional characters, but is it just fantasy? Let us look back at Samuel Whittemore. Samuel was an old man -- seventy-eight years old, to be exact -- on April 19, 1775. After many years of service bearing arms for the British Crown, surely he was too old to fight, and his wife even told him so. On that fateful morning, though, he gathered up his musket, two pistols, and a cavalry saber that he acquired from a French officer who "died suddenly" and took his place to meet the British Regulars in Menotomy. When it was over, the British thought they were fired upon by a whole company and sent the same to subdue him. After dispatching some British Regulars by emptying his musket and pistols and drawing his sword, he had half his face shot off and was bayoneted thirteen times and left for dead. Samuel did indeed die -- ten years later.
There is also David Lamson, a mulatto voted by his peers to take charge of a group of gray-haired old men. On that same morning, they surprised one of General Percy's supply columns, asking them to surrender. Seeing just a few old men, the British refused, leading to Lamson's men shooting the officer, the sergeant, and the horses in their traces. The remaining grenadiers fled, finally surrendering to old Mother Batherick after throwing their arms away. Hearing about this, a British paper printed, "If one old Yankee woman can take six grenadiers, how many soldiers will it require to conquer America?"
There are over twenty-five million veterans in the United States -- among them many Walt Kowalskis -- and most of them are gun owners. Some of them remember the horrors of the concentration camps and of communism. Others are from the Vietnam era and remember what awaited them when they came home. They see John Kerry, the same man who threw his medals over the White House fence and was photographed with Jane Fonda and the North Vietnamese, nominated as secretary of state. They remember. ObamaCare, where you get painkillers instead of treatment because you are old? They have heard this. They have been spat at and vilified before, and now, with time running out for them, and the America that they knew seemingly fading away, many will say, "At one time, I was asked to write a check to my country for up to and including my life. Do I need to do it again?"
You would be surprised at what you can overhear at the VFW, or even the "early bird dinner," for that matter. Thanks to the "War on Terror," there are also many younger combat veterans, many from a lineage of soldiers. They know that old people can be stubborn, and "the government threw grandpa in jail because he didn't turn in his guns" will not go over well. As an older friend of mine whom I see at Denny's on occasion tells me, "I'm just sayin'."
Ebben Raves is a veteran, constitutional activist, and speaker who teaches American history and has been a guest on several talk radio shows. He can be reached at [email protected].
TLEE; Thanks so much for the good read which serves as a reminder to us all. I hope that this finds you and yours well and that 2013 has treated you all fine thus far.
I believe at one time I shared a couple stories with you of vets that I worked with over the years who indeed fit the description of your thread.
One of them, a veteran of the German Army's failed Russian campaign, who'd subsequently spent 4 years in concentration camp after the war was always like a father to me.
There was however a chap who moved up here from California to avoid the draft in the '70's who loved to torment him.
One memorable occasion when the teasing finally got to my German friend, his countenance changed and he simply picked up the other fellow, walked him 30' over to a garbage bin and dropped him into it. I'll never forget the look on my older friend's face as he sorted out what he'd do next, then he simply shook his finger at him - shared a couple unprintable but pertinent thoughts and left.
As the other chap got out of the garbage bin, I walked over to him and observed, "You just had an honest to goodness near death experience there - if it was me I'd watch how I talked to him from now on....."
Another late friend of my late father foiled an armed robbery in a local bank - this would have been in the early '80's I think, by grabbing the would be robber by the throat and threatening to gouge out his eyes if he moved.
Now the interesting detail here is that this particular robber must have been brighter than average at reading sign - you see Dad's buddy had in fact led an escape of Allied war prisoners from a German prison - and had told Dad that he'd killed one of the guards with a similar move.
Anyway, I'll again say a heartfelt thank you to all the service men and women here. Your sacrifice has not gone unnoticed and many of us do not take our freedoms for granted.
Here's to all the dangerous old men in particular here, may you all have a wonderful 2013 and never again have to use what you learned in your younger days.
CrimsonTide; I hope that this finds you and yours well this Sunday afternoon sir.
What the chap in the bucket didn't realize was that my German friend had been impressed into the army at gunpoint. He said they showed up at the family farm and said if he didn't come with them he'd die along with the rest of the family - so he went to the Russian front.
He was in no way, shape or form pro Nazi, which is what he was wrongly accused of by the fellow in the trash can.
Although my older friend didn't talk much about it, at times privately with me he'd share the horrors he'd seen in the concentration camp. To say he was anticommunist would be just scratching the surface in my view CrimsonTide.
Anyway I've known a lot of vets from several conflicts and have nothing but the deepest respect for them. The overwhelming majority have treated me in an exemplary manner and I've done my best to return that courtesy.
All the best to you and yours in 2013 CrimsonTide.
All is well here with family and friends as I hope is with you. You Sir are one of the real good guys here and I always appreciate hearing from you and you opinions are valued.
I hope my post didn't sound like I thought your German friend was Nazi. I have little doubt but that many German boys were pressed into service with the Wermacht.
I agree that we owe a debt of respect and in some cases, gratitude to veterans of any war. A man who has seen the elephant should never be taken lightly.
May 2013 bring health and blessings to you and your family, CT
I hope my post didn't sound like I thought your German friend was Nazi. I have little doubt but that many German boys were pressed into service with the Wermacht. �
One of my ship mates (M Schoch) at the Naval Photographic Center was a German boy who'd been forced to be a Hitler youth. I'm sure that none of us who knew him ever supposed that he'd been a Nazi. He was a shooter, too.
And if I remember correctly, a nephew of Adolf Hitler was also an American serviceman at the time.
CrimsonTide; Thanks for the greetings and blessing sir, I do appreciate them.
To be clear sir, I took nothing in your post to reflect that you felt my friend was a Nazi other than being forced to fight for them.
I should have been more clear in my response in that my intention was only to add that detail and not that I'd inferred anything from your reply. Sorry for that oversight on my part.
Thanks again for the kind words CT and all the best to you and yours again.
T. Lee, Liked the subject matter on the old vets and the seeming attitudes they have when confronted with losing freedoms and having their rights encroached upon. Something I can totally relate to along with driving the train for Jane Fonda along with thousands of others like me. Seeing my country vanishing by the day is unnerving to say the least. Listening to Reid and Pelosi demeaning vets and elderly who have given their lives to this country brings the hair up on my neck for sure, but the stealing of our rights by executive order and yelling he has the mandate because he stole the election and that gives him permission to do so..... NOT.! I know for sure, after being shot twice, that I can be killed, but the price that will be paid will be steep. Old but very determined to keep my country and my rights and certainly my private property.!! JIM Lloyd, FROGMANJIM67
CrimsonTide; I hope that this finds you and yours well this Sunday afternoon sir.
What the chap in the bucket didn't realize was that my German friend had been impressed into the army at gunpoint. He said they showed up at the family farm and said if he didn't come with them he'd die along with the rest of the family - so he went to the Russian front.
He was in no way, shape or form pro Nazi, which is what he was wrongly accused of by the fellow in the trash can.
Although my older friend didn't talk much about it, at times privately with me he'd share the horrors he'd seen in the concentration camp. To say he was anticommunist would be just scratching the surface in my view CrimsonTide.
Anyway I've known a lot of vets from several conflicts and have nothing but the deepest respect for them. The overwhelming majority have treated me in an exemplary manner and I've done my best to return that courtesy.
All the best to you and yours in 2013 CrimsonTide.
Regards, Dwayne
Anybody who doesn't believe stories like that should just watch the movie, Enemy at the Gates, which is about the Russian front, though told through the eyes of a drafted Russian instead. The movie certainly implies that although the protagonist is Russian, he isn't Communist. The scenes of the Russian officers shooting conscripts that are terrified of walking into the Nazi death machine are particularly brutal.
Great stories. As a veteran of the Vietnam fiasco I later served with a unit that attempted to control the many anti-military demonstrations. Many of these hippies are now grandparents of sons & daughters that leach off the government & are dedicated liberals. Grandparents, parents, & now sons & daughters were frequent users of drugs. I believe all the illegal drug use has contributed to todays gun violence by producing young men with defective chromosomes. I do volunteer work with Wounded Warriors & they do honor to our greatest generation. Any man or woman that served in the military needs to be congratulated. I am over 70 & teach security officers to shoot & work as a armed guard at so called secure facilities. Many of my young co-workers are amazed that I hunt, shoot, fish, drive an ATV, & a high speed bass boat.
Everybody knows a Walt Kowalski. He is the grizzled Korean War veteran Clint Eastwood played in the movie Gran Torino. A man who spends his days sitting on the porch, keeping his house and yard immaculate, satisfied to drink his cheap beer while watching his neighborhood and country go to hell around him. He is an anachronism, a dinosaur -- part of the old America where you worked hard, took pride in your work and where you lived, and fought for your country and what it stood for when called upon. Armed with his M1 Garand rifle and 1911 .45 pistol he brought back from the war, he put new meaning in "Get off my lawn."
(Warning: spoilers follow.)
As anyone who has seen the movie knows, Kowalski is recently widowed and terminally ill. He does not have much to live for until he befriends his young Hmong neighbors. After teaching them what honor and self-reliance are, he eventually gives his life for them.
How many would take Walt Kowalski's guns?
He would likely fit the criteria for mental illness. Probably has PTSD, depressed over the death of his wife, and quite possibly alcoholic.
There are probably a couple of hundred categories of mental illness, from serious psychotic conditions like schizophrenia to the mental equivalent of the common cold. Or are they all just "nut jobs" who shouldn't have the right of self defense?
And I think there are a lot more of us old veterans that may not die from old age - instead die for one last service to the country.
Originally Posted by frogmanjim67
T. Lee, Liked the subject matter on the old vets and the seeming attitudes they have when confronted with losing freedoms and having their rights encroached upon. Something I can totally relate to along with driving the train for Jane Fonda along with thousands of others like me. Seeing my country vanishing by the day is unnerving to say the least. Listening to Reid and Pelosi demeaning vets and elderly who have given their lives to this country brings the hair up on my neck for sure, but the stealing of our rights by executive order and yelling he has the mandate because he stole the election and that gives him permission to do so..... NOT.! I know for sure, after being shot twice, that I can be killed, but the price that will be paid will be steep. Old but very determined to keep my country and my rights and certainly my private property.!! JIM Lloyd, FROGMANJIM67
There are over twenty-five million veterans in the United States -- among them many Walt Kowalskis -- and most of them are gun owners. Some of them remember the horrors of the concentration camps and of communism. Others are from the Vietnam era and remember what awaited them when they came home. They see John Kerry, the same man who threw his medals over the White House fence and was photographed with Jane Fonda and the North Vietnamese, nominated as secretary of state. They remember. ObamaCare, where you get painkillers instead of treatment because you are old? They have heard this. They have been spat at and vilified before, and now, with time running out for them, and the America that they knew seemingly fading away, many will say, "At one time, I was asked to write a check to my country for up to and including my life. Do I need to do it again?"
That.
Unlike rank and file politicians who view their oath of office as a formality, most vets have an indelible recollection of that administration. We were never relieved of that 'burden', never given a "King's X" or "Olly, Olly, Oxen Free".
Lot of us are really grumpy these days, the trail is getting steep and ideals are more dear than pain is intimidating.
I still have memories about turning in a morning report with 3 strikeovers on it....or spelling the CO's name wrong because I got one storke in before the other. However, after struggling through the morning, I had the rest of the day to test fire all the Battery's and Company's small arms, the M2 being my favorite.
Thanks, T LEE for the forced flashbacks. Maybe now I can back to driving some ol' M60A1's just for the sheer pleasure of that.
CrimsonTide; I hope that this finds you and yours well this Sunday afternoon sir.
What the chap in the bucket didn't realize was that my German friend had been impressed into the army at gunpoint. He said they showed up at the family farm and said if he didn't come with them he'd die along with the rest of the family - so he went to the Russian front.
He was in no way, shape or form pro Nazi, which is what he was wrongly accused of by the fellow in the trash can.
Although my older friend didn't talk much about it, at times privately with me he'd share the horrors he'd seen in the concentration camp. To say he was anticommunist would be just scratching the surface in my view CrimsonTide.
Anyway I've known a lot of vets from several conflicts and have nothing but the deepest respect for them. The overwhelming majority have treated me in an exemplary manner and I've done my best to return that courtesy.
All the best to you and yours in 2013 CrimsonTide.
I guess i can talk about it now, since both are now dead. The first one was a machine gunner, german, on the eastern front. Fascinating stories of survival, such as jumping off a train bound for siberia and walking back to germany. He was a member of the hitler youngen, their version of our boy scouts. He said going into the army wasn't exactly an option. He was 16. You either did or you and your whole family ended up in a camp. He later migrated to canada. His brother in law was at my house one day, and pulled up his polo shirt to show me the lightening bolts under his arm. Yes, he was in the S.S. He was about 16 when he went in during the fall of 44, almost immediately got shot, and spent the rest of the war in the hospital. His obit recently reflected many many fine things he did in canada, where he had become a citizen. The reality of history is often much different than that written after an agenda is pushed. And it is usually written by the victors who put their own spin on it.
I have another one, the fellow was my brother in law, now deceased. He enlisted in the navy at 15, lied about it to get in, and was a coxain(?) on a higgins landing boat. He was a participant in very heavy combat in the pacific. I asked him one time if he hated the japanese, he said no, he actually admired them. He said most were just kids doing what their govt told them to do, just like we were just kids doing what our govt told us to do. As to japanese atrocities? He said yeah, we wrote most of the history books of the period, and do you see any mention in there of american sailors machine gunning shipwrecked japanese sailors for sport and laughing about it? His comment was there were no winners in war. Up into the 60's you didn't approach him when sleeping without making noise. As to tough, he was a fleet golden gloves champion. One of the most gentlest and toughest men i ever knew.
Like your picture in your avatar spot. Only thing missing is 115 degrees and 90% humidity.... Not sure how they could have put that into the statue but the figures did good to represent how drug-out we all felt from the heat,insects (two-legged ones too.!)and mud/water with inyournose-stench.! Loved the Delta.!
Good thread for us old farts in the service lines.... Don't forget,we have NOW been RE-LABELED as TERRORISTS by NANNYPELOSI and are prime targets for gun control due to our mental state as veterans...... Funny,the more sane you get,the MORE the left tries to say you aren't.!!!! Kinda makes you wonder what DC has done to THEIR MENTAL state and why they haven't been "Labeled" by their own ranks... Guessing worthless drunks aren't in the labeling categories.
The Nazi HORROR was probably the onlything I can think of that has brought the entire planet into and almost unified struggle to eradicate it. Gotta hand it to all the WWII crew,you saved the entire world from a madman..... Ask any Jew or others from the camps. Now we just have to keep it all in the history books and prevent the progressive left and the muslim's from getting it erased from HIstory. I still wear my Grandfather's family ring in his memory... he was on Saipan after Europe. He never was totally right the whole time I remember him...He cried the day I left for Viet Nam.. That WWII war ravaged him as it did many others. I salute you all,and the memories of your friends gone before.
Anybody who doesn't believe stories like that should just watch the movie, Enemy at the Gates,
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! That movie is horrible. They so totally screwed up the "Real" ending which is actually pretty interesting, to two "snipers" wandering around the train station like idiots. Ahhhh worst movie EVAH!
I'm with Shreck--I'm afraid some younger people might think thats how it went and why does hollywierd think they should rewrite history. In my younger days I knew an old Ukaranian woman who had fought on the Eastern Front. I have always felt she was one of the most dangerous people I ever met.
"Enemy at the Gates" was a movie... nothing more, and CERTAINLY not HISTORY (Short of FICTION)Shooting from cover was about the extent of truth.... the rest was as fictional as Rachel Weis "on the rocks" with the lead man.! Ranks up there with Platoon and other attempts at Viet Nam from the "Draft dodger" stand-point of view. I have yet to see any VietNam Movie that even comes close to real, and Stallone.. Well..... "First blood" for him was Sharon Stone cornering him in the shower.!HOLLYWOOD.... FAKES AT BEST.!!
The only danger posed by Walt Kowalski, Ben Mitchell, Samuel Whittemore, David Lamson, and members of, to name just a few:
National Society of Sons of the American Colonists Society of Colonial Wars Sons of the Revolution Sons of the American Revolution Hereditary Order of Loyalists & Patriots of the American Revolution Order of the Second World War Naval Order of the United States
Before he retired, Twin Cities cop Charlie O'Neil stood erect and unbleeding after several gun fights with mob gunsels � some of whom were trying to collect on the mob's contract on him.
After he retired to Montana, the contract was still out, so he always "carried" � either or both a PPK and a 9mm Sig Neuhausen.
His house and shop were a few miles west of Alberton on old two-lane highway 10. Going to town for his mail one morning, he faced only a semi pulling the grade in compound low. Nothing going in his direction � until some dude came-up behind him in an attempt to cross Montana on his coffee break.
The dude had four options � � head-on into the semi � wait for Charlie and the semi to get out of his way � rear-end Charlie � run Charlie off the road
He chose the fourth, but Charlie wouldn't let that happen. He straddled the center line until he was about to head-on into the semi. The dude had to lay rubber with a screech, dip his front end, and wait for room to go around Charlie.
When Charlie and the semi cleared the road, the dude screeched past Charlie's old car. As he passed Charlie, he shook his fist at Charlie and yelled at him.
He got more angry as he sped down the road. On the flat, with marshy ground on either side of the road, he stopped athwart the center line, got out of the car, and stomped back toward Charlie.
Charlie knew better than to pull-up close behind the dude's car, and he knew better than to sit and wait in his own car. He stopped with plenty of space ahead of him, got out of his car, and stood looking over the top of the open door.
"God damn you, you mother-f*cking old son of a bitch!" the dude cooed. "I'm going to beat the f*cking sh�t out of you!"
Dumpy little Charlie, who looked like everybody's grandfather, just smiled, picked-up his home-made elk-butchering knife (a long piece of sawmill blade) from behind his seat, slammed his car door, and walked toward the dude.
"And I'm going to hang your liver in that tree [pointing]."
The dude skidded rubber off his boot heels, ran back to his car, and left more tire rubber behind. He went out of sight soon, and Charlie never saw that car again.
I never asked him but always wondered what Charlie was carrying that morning. Probably the PPK, which the dude most likely would've sneered at and tried to take away from Charlie. Whatever. I'm sure that Charlie just didn't want to be bothered with the inevitable hassle of leaving a bleeding hunk of meat on the pavement.
When I told Bill Jordan of the incident, Bill grinned � and agreed that its deadly element wasn't Charlie's short sword but his calm, sweet smile.
Did you ever notice the fear our government and media has of vets? It may be subtle at times and others obvious but it is there. Once you train a person you can not take the training away. That training doesn't involve only weapons. Most vets serve or served with honor, a sense of duty, and integrity. Vets took an oath to our country that was not rescinded at the time of their release from duty. Vets take an oath just like our politicians when they take office but unlike most of them most vets honor the oath. Most vets live the oath. Something those that fear them lack.
Well there was a you tube video that when viral some young snot nose on a bus thought he could take the old man with a wast pouch, that old guy kicked his backside three ways from sunday. There is way to much rudeness these days. I'm 58 so I am almost getting to old guy status. Be polite 24/7 and the tracks will get greased for you often. He was a Navy guy as I recall.
Well there was a you tube video that when viral some young snot nose on a bus thought he could take the old man with a wast pouch, that old guy kicked his backside three ways from sunday. There is way to much rudeness these days. I'm 58 so I am almost getting to old guy status. Be polite 24/7 and the tracks will get greased for you often. He was a Navy guy as I recall.
Did you ever notice the fear our government and media has of vets? It may be subtle at times and others obvious but it is there. Once you train a person you can not take the training away. That training doesn't involve only weapons. Most vets serve or served with honor, a sense of duty, and integrity. Vets took an oath to our country that was not rescinded at the time of their release from duty. Vets take an oath just like our politicians when they take office but unlike most of them most vets honor the oath. Most vets live the oath. Something those that fear them lack.
My late buddy Wally, at 19 a Carlos Hathcock of the south Pacific, was so efficient that fellow Marines shrank from him. "I could never do what you do," Greg Boyington said to him. Captured twice, Wally killed his way out of one Japanese POW camp and in the same way avoided being taken to another one. (The memories of his escape techniques haunted him for the rest of his life.)
After the war, his ever-grateful government buried Wally deep under the far end of a loony bin to give 'em time to figure-out what to do with him.
He wasn't crazy, of course.
When they finally turned him loose, gentle Wally led a responsible, productive life. Neighbor Ken Kesey compiled some of Wally's postwar recollections into the novel that became the movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. For many Christmases, white-haired, full-white-bearded Wally was a department-store "Santa Claus" with his own very special way with kids.
Ya' gotta realize something about the NSA, IRS, CIA and others spying on US AMERICAN CITIZENS WHO HAVE STOOD BY THAT SAME OATH THEY WERE SUPPOSEDLY TO HAVE TAKEN.... COWARDS HUNT FROM THE SHADOWS.!! Simple.! When they realize the absolute coward (Ran to bed when Benghazzi 4 were being slaughtered) they have as the messiah, if he gets his way to be the dictator he wants to be, will be a fact they will never outlive and a legacy of helping destroy our country. They will try to get rid of us old men and shut us up, but until I'm dead and gone, I have earned my right to speak in the service and as Former LEO and will continue. All the men I have heard from in here have that same right to speaks as they feel, freely, and without fear but that is not to say the cowards may not show up on your doorstep someday. Even the SS under Hitler that did the same, got theirs in the end.!
Did you notice the photographer was black and tried to get him to press charges against the old man..! Guess the film didn't turn out like the argument was staged to. Funny. My Bro'in law has a saying on his website that goes..." Never pick a fight with an old man, he's too old to try and outrun you and will probably just kill you" kinda seems appropriate here.
More'n twenty five years ago when I was new in San Antonio I used to stop in for coffee and read the paper in the morning at a local Mc Donald's.
This is a military town and there was always a crew of elderly Veterans holding court in one corner, drinking coffee and shooting the breeze.
Met my wife at that very same McDonalds, she would meet her ride to nursing school there, the veterans seen it all.
One guy I would especially sit and talk to was Pete, a retired Cop from Pennsylvania, and retired MP/security in the US Army, a Korean War Veteran.
Eventually I stopped drinking coffee in the morning before school, switched to green tea brewed at home, coffee caffeine made me get mad at the kids instead of just ACTING mad, green tea provides a milder, longer lasting caffeine lift, with no crash afterwards. Of course I quit stopping in to get coffee every morning.
Just stopping in occasionally on weekends years went by, sometimes I'd run into 'em sometimes not. Last time I ran into most of 'em was 2002, when we commiserated about the third recent graduate of our school falling in combat in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Walked in last weekend and, Holy Smoke, if it weren't Pete, eighty years old now, and still going strong, looking pretty damned good for the years he was carrying. We sat and had a long talk, he had beaten a heart attack, his wife had beaten a bout with cancer.
But so disgusted was he with the Veteran's Administration and with Obama in particular, he told me he was considering throwing away his combat infantry badge, and all his service ribbons.
While we sat, an elderly Hispanic man wearing a hat saying "Retired Air Force Veteran" joined us for a few minutes. A soft-spoken individual. He had to get home to look after his wife, sadly suffering from Alzheimer's.
After he left Pete told me the guy had been a POW in Vietnam.
As always, I felt privileged to share their company.
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