Tanner posted a list of Hornady products that are on a suspended manufacture list until the end of the year. It is copy of a fax that was being posted over on Sniper's Hide on the subject.
As usual, the "Tin Foil Hat" accusation crowds went into action with their usual antics.
The fax copy post was listing 7 paqes of product that Hornady is planning to suspend manufacture of until the end of the year, so that they can keep their equipment up and running to turn out their biggest selling products, without having to stop and do change over to different products and try to stay on top of orders and back orders.
I called Hornady this morning at 6:35 AM West Coast Time and 8: 35 AM, Nebraska time. I got right thru to their sales dept, and the gal I spoke to there VERIFIED that the fax and suspension is REAL, not internet fabrication.
Just passing it on, anyone doubting it still can feel free to call Hornady themselves at 800.338.3220
Even upside down the list doesn't look too bad, you can see it is more of their lower selling bullets like Interbonds, round noses and such. Also the first half of it is loaded factory ammo which I wouldn't shoot anyway.
Nothing among the component bullets that I shoot a lot of is listed there. But even if it was, I'm a hoarder and already have plenty of everything I like to shoot up on the shelves.
Thanks for putting it up Craigster, This list is quite a bit longer than the other list. After reading this list I got to wondering what was left, ammo or component wise, that is so much more profitable and doesn't require switching the tooling so much. What struck me also was how broad the suspension of very popular and commonly used components and factory loads is, There is lot of stuff on these lists that I don't see and haven't seen at my local sporting goods stores in months. A few of the items I've been looking for several months now.
After looking at the list,..exactly what are they continuing to make..?
My thoughts exactly!
It is one thing to move away from resources spent on non-core products in favor of your bread & butter but this seems pretty drastic. I am sure they're making good de isn't based upon information I don't have (which there is an awful lot of I know) but still seems odd.
I just picked up a box of 165 gr Interlocks on lunch today. I'd have made it 4 if I'd have seen this first!
I'd question the logic of this list from a PR standpoint. They might have just not said anything and let people wait like we're all doing for everything anyways. No sense pissing off people by targeting their favorite bullet. Could have rephrased it and just said the following items are going to be out of stock until 2014. To think they deliberately decided to not make anymore 162 Amax's right before hunting season!!!!!!
If they suspend production for 6 months, how long will it take for them to catch up with orders once they finally start back up again? A long damn time I'm thinking. It may be 2015 before this all settles back to normal, provided nothing else happens to reinvigorate the panic buying.
I have not bought anything made by Hornady in years, so the list makes no never mind to me.
For future reference Sam, we assume you use nothing and like not actors nor movies. Don't feel obligated to post in every thread what you don't like, won't see or don't use, we already assume you won't.
Well now that we know what they won't be making, it would sure be nice to know what they will be making. And agree with me or not, none of the component/reloading mfgrs are in the business of making ammo, components, or reloading items. They are in the business of making money, and these days I think they're making a bunch .
The only thing that I think is really going to hurt some guys, is the guys that own fast twist 22's. Although, I imagine that is a drop in the bucket of Horndady sales.
Its pretty impressive what this says about demand 8 months after Sandy Hook. Hornady can take all those products out of the production queue and still be running at presumably 100%.
I'm good friends with the folks at Hornady. I just emailed them and will have the facts shortly.
07-08-2013, 02:50 PM
Just heard from Hornady. The is no truth to the rumor Hornady is discontinuing the Amax line. What kind of mind dreams this stupid [bleep] up?
07-08-2013, 03:34 PM
I just got off the phone with my friend and temporarily suspending production of some low volume bullets is correct. That's across the entire bullet product line not just Amax's. Those low volume bullets on back order have had the orders canceled, not the SKU# canceled just backorders. The reasoning is why setup for a run of 100K when another number has 5 million on order. Makes sense to me and it's being honest and upfront with your customers.
07-08-2013, 05:15 PM
As I understand this it wasn't about economics, as in profit, it was about not giving false hope to customers that these low production bullets would be delivered anytime soon. Profit is a byproduct of that decision. Hornady has been expanding production capacity for years and can't keep up. They've built at least two additions since the last time I was there. Sierra has bullets in this category also. It's about the demands of the market place right now. The tooling for all these bullets is still there.
Dave Tooley Tooley Custom Rifles Gastonia, NC 704-864-7525
Hook, you have to be able to read between the lines. Let me give you an example. In .224 they are suspending the .224 55gr zmax, and the 55gr Vmax moly. But they are NOT suspending the regular 55gr Vmax. My guess is this means they now have 2 more presses helping catch up with the demand for this popular product.
.224 55gr FMJ .308 150gr FMJ
NOPE neither of these on the list.
Of course they need to make alot of these so everyone can have a couple thousand rounds for all those new AR platforms that Oobie help sell.
The increases in demand are unprecedented. They have been expanding their capacity & just can not do it fast enough & it sounds like somebody there had to, & did, make the tough choices on what to concentrate their efforts on, temporarily, until the current frenzy passes. IF it passes.. Biggest quantity movers got the nod. No surprise.
Good business decision, though it stinks for some who haven't prepared well for what anybody with eyes should have seen coming, long ago.
The only Hornady bullets that consistently fly off my local shelves are Amax and Bthp and they're suspending them? Kiss my ass I'll go elsewhere and not look back.
The only Hornady bullets that consistently fly off my local shelves are Amax and Bthp and they're suspending them? Kiss my ass I'll go elsewhere and not look back.
It doesn't matter what they are or are not making, we are but roughly 15 months from another election in this country! Election = shortages! So, if they're not caught up, then they fall even further behind, right??
And here I was thinking I could ride this panic/hording crap out for a while. I know my local shop had what i need 2 days ago but I better stop in tomorrow.
And here I was thinking I could ride this panic/hording crap out for a while. I know my local shop had what i need 2 days ago but I better stop in tomorrow.
Very irritating (especially the Amax).
I keep a big stock of components, and have always just made large orders to replace them as I use them. If you shoot continually, it's impossible to replace stock right now. I hate it, but about the only way I can ride it out is to shoot less.... I'm pretty patient, but I'm starting to get really pissed at people who are buying to set stuff back they'll never use. If someone isn't shooting then they need to just live with what they have.
you see this from the Manufacturers perspective as they are trying to do the best they can to support their customers, and then you see guys on the forum here, who are claiming that they will "never buy another Hornady product", thinking Hornady is screwing the consumer...
that's there choice... which I support... as it will mean more product availability to those of us that like their bullets...
This entire country is a free for all mentality anymore... and has lost all sense of any sanity it might have once had...
I understand Hornady's change of priority, what I don't understand is how the decision to stop production of several AMAX bullets makes sense? I haven't seen AMAX of any caliber in stock for 8 months. To me, that means they are in high demand. Why shut them down when that's what people are screaming for?
I understand Hornady's change of priority, what I don't understand is how the decision to stop production of several AMAX bullets makes sense? I haven't seen AMAX of any caliber in stock for 8 months. To me, that means they are in high demand. Why shut them down when that's what people are screaming for?
Or it could mean that they've not been produced in quite a while, demand is low, Hornady is merely making public knowledge what had already been a reality, and you (and I) run in circles (ie: hard core rifle loonys) whose demands are not indicative of the broader market place?
That'd be my bet, if I were a betting man.
I'm not, so I'll just continue to buy every box of Amax I come across and store 'em up so I don't run out.
I'm sure Hornady knows which of their bullets sells the most and which sell the least.
Pretty simple to start at the bottom of the list and work your way up. The only judgement call would be how far up the list to go, and even that can be pretty cut and dried by any decent analysis of known production capacity. Set a goal to produce X amount of the top sellers and plan accordingly.
I understand Hornady's change of priority, what I don't understand is how the decision to stop production of several AMAX bullets makes sense? I haven't seen AMAX of any caliber in stock for 8 months. To me, that means they are in high demand. Why shut them down when that's what people are screaming for?
if you have been in business, that is a real easy answer...
its done by the accountants... this product is moving at this rate, this one isn't... a business has to draw the line somewhere...
something else folks are not thinking about...some of this stuff, they may already have made what they need to meet demand for the rest of the year and it is sitting in warehouses already...
I am sure there are items on that list that they have already made plenty of earlier this year... and the way the marketplace's mindset is...they could have plenty of say 22 cal 75 or 80 grain A Maxes...but then how do they know that they announce they won't be making any more this year... that the panic crowd won't suddenly be buying all they can get their hands on???
working with production schedules in business before, I know that production engineers have to 'crystal ball' what they are going to make this month, and next month etc, 1.based on in house orders, 2. based on previous years demand 3. market projections...
with the panic buying of everything... this has to make a production manager's life a living hell right now in the shooting industry...
Other companies have suspended production of low-selling items, but haven't made such a big public pronouncement about it.
If Hornady is suspending SOME A-Maxes, it's because they don't sell as many of those as other bullets. It's that simple. Just because some people are "screaming" for certain bullets doesn't change the number of those bullets actually ordered.
No sane company is going to increase production capacity by building a lot of new plants and buying extra machines. This is yet another bubble in the panic buying that apparently will occur in America every time shooters THINK the Federal Government MIGHT pass new anti-gun and ammo laws.
Back in 1994 the temporary Clinton-era assault rifle ban was passed, and aside from demand for AR's and high-cap magazines, a rumor went around about primers that would go dead within six months. People were sealing primers in PVC pipe and burying them in their back yards. (Did anybody ever run into any primers with 6-month life spans? No.) Some companies assumed at the time the boom would continue forever, and built new buildings and bought new machinery. They went broke when the boom busted.
The same thing is going on now. It's another boom fueled by paranoia about what MIGHT happens, not was what HAS happened. It's deeper and longer than the 1994 assault-rifle panic, or the 2008 Obama panic, but it will also end, because the Republican House isn't going to pass any new anti-gun laws.
Hornady's decision is a sane response to the insane buying and hoarding of many shooters right now. It's based on sound capitalistic business practices, not some random torture of fans of certain bullets.
John I mentioned this on another of these kook-fueled forums but even at this late date, the kooks were lined up at 0530 in the morning in front of Academy Sports in order to pillage the Tuesday ammo delivery truck. It's insane
I understand Hornady's change of priority, what I don't understand is how the decision to stop production of several AMAX bullets makes sense? I haven't seen AMAX of any caliber in stock for 8 months. To me, that means they are in high demand. Why shut them down when that's what people are screaming for?
Or it could mean that they've not been produced in quite a while, demand is low, Hornady is merely making public knowledge what had already been a reality, and you (and I) run in circles (ie: hard core rifle loonys) whose demands are not indicative of the broader market place?
That'd be my bet, if I were a betting man.
I'm not, so I'll just continue to buy every box of Amax I come across and store 'em up so I don't run out.
Can you imagine the outcry if the government had done half as much to curtail the ability of average people to shoot and reload as the stockpilers have done?
Can you imagine the outcry if the government had done half as much to curtail the ability of average people to shoot and reload as the stockpilers have done?
The government has created the stockpilers, therefore the shortages and the outcry. Some just don't peel back enough layers to see what has happened. Start at the start.
9 out of 10 hunters have never even heard of an Amax. This site is not a good sample of the hunting population. You can narrow it down even further, probably half of those on this site that tout the Amax as THE bullet have never actually shot an animal with one.
Narrow it down even further, probably half of those people aren't even shooting at ranges where a high B.C. bullet even creates a noticeable advantage.
I remember people scoffing at a Nosler bullet because it only had a .509 BC. (rolleyes)
Starline brass often has it's whole production run of brass preordered before they make it.... They post expected delivery dates (which have been very accurate). I have bought .40 S&W 10 MM .45 Auto Rimmed and .45 Colt brass that way over the past few years....
The last time I spoke with the nice lady working there she said they can't believe how long this buying spree has lasted.....
I can also understand why a company would not plunge ahead and spend 10s of Millions to expand their production facility when 5 or 10 years from now a huge legal attack could be launched against the reloading community.....
I understand Hornady's change of priority, what I don't understand is how the decision to stop production of several AMAX bullets makes sense? I haven't seen AMAX of any caliber in stock for 8 months. To me, that means they are in high demand. Why shut them down when that's what people are screaming for?
Or it could mean that they've not been produced in quite a while, demand is low, Hornady is merely making public knowledge what had already been a reality, and you (and I) run in circles (ie: hard core rifle loonys) whose demands are not indicative of the broader market place?
That'd be my bet, if I were a betting man.
I'm not, so I'll just continue to buy every box of Amax I come across and store 'em up so I don't run out.
Or it could mean that their production rates are lower for the plastic tip bullets compared to, say, hollow or soft point bullets and they are trying to maximize total production.
cant imagine Hornandy can even buy the machinery they need "off the shelf" would think even if they wanted to expand its not something that can be done on short order.....would rather do business with Hornandy which is telling their customers whats going on than other companies which are all likely doing the exact same thing just keeping their mouths shut about it....
Hornandy, and everyone else, got slammed almost over night and its not like they can buy the machinery to expand and as Mule Deer pointed out even if they did more than likely by the time they did this buying spree could flame out leaving them with a bunch of equipment costing them money and sitting idle....the way i see it they are in a no-win situation, course i also have run a business and dont look at the world through ideals....
Lots of 22 bullets and general hunting bullets on the list. Still making the 75 grain HPBT and 6mm 105 HPBT as well as plenty of "long range" bullets in different calibers.
What I found interesting is they are still manufacturing the 9.3mm 250 grain GMX....WTF, how many of those do you think they sell?
Lots of 22 bullets and general hunting bullets on the list. Still making the 75 grain HPBT and 6mm 105 HPBT as well as plenty of "long range" bullets in different calibers.
What I found interesting is they are still manufacturing the 9.3mm 250 grain GMX....WTF, how many of those do you think they sell?
I think those are because JB has compromising pictures of the owners...
Lots of 22 bullets and general hunting bullets on the list. Still making the 75 grain HPBT and 6mm 105 HPBT as well as plenty of "long range" bullets in different calibers.
What I found interesting is they are still manufacturing the 9.3mm 250 grain GMX....WTF, how many of those do you think they sell?
I think those are because JB has compromising pictures of the owners...
Haha - yeah the whole 6 guys in the US who shoot 9.3s!
The 7mm list of bullets still in production is what gets me. Most of what I buy and others I know buy are 7mm pills and they're cutting it back to the 5 least desirable bullets?
Yeah some of what they are continuing to build is a bit baffling (30 tc ammo? come on).
I'm wondering if their big bore stuff is built on big bore specific devices, as many of those offerings are still available. Otherwise I can't see how they would keep 500 Nitro Express ammo in production!
Yeah, I'm guessing some of those are round specific....just can't see keeping something set up for some of those if they could be pumping out .223 ammo on them.
John I mentioned this on another of these kook-fueled forums but even at this late date, the kooks were lined up at 0530 in the morning in front of Academy Sports in order to pillage the Tuesday ammo delivery truck. It's insane
If only these kooks would have the same concern over the shredding of the Constitution, we'd be better off. Or, bring the Egyptian over here for a week or two.
Starline brass often has it's whole production run of brass preordered before they make it.... They post expected delivery dates (which have been very accurate). I have bought .40 S&W 10 MM .45 Auto Rimmed and .45 Colt brass that way over the past few years....
The last time I spoke with the nice lady working there she said they can't believe how long this buying spree has lasted.....
I can also understand why a company would not plunge ahead and spend 10s of Millions to expand their production facility when 5 or 10 years from now a huge legal attack could be launched against the reloading community.....
That is what is different this time than all the other times. This has gone of for years like a horse race turned into a round the world race.
Unless you count the 1994 and 2008 panics as part of the same deal, it's been going on since late last fall, not years. That's when Sandy Hook happened and all the anti-gunners started making noises. Before then you could walk into any sporting goods store and buy a brick of primers or .22 ammo at normal prices.
I went to a local gun show during the summer 2008, during the first Obama panic. A guy I knew asked me what the problem was with primer availability, and I explained it was panic buying. The guy with him was a conspiracy theorist, and said it was due to Washington, that we didn't know what was going on "behind closed doors." I didn't try to argue with him, since he obviously had inside information--inside his head, that is. Within six months everything was back to normal.
It will take longer this time, because this panic is much deeper. What I can't figure out is why rimfire ammo became the object of desire. In both the 1994 (assault-rifle ban) and 2008 panics, primers were the biggest problem, but rimfire ammo never was affected.
John: The reason for the 22 shortage is due to the kook fringe's determination they are an essential component of their doomsday inventory, you know low noise so the Zombies won't come running...
My Celtic Conspiratorial Mind doen't like this at all.
There hasn't been a false flag incident and yet ammo production is being restricted and back orders cancelled?
Is Hornady the only one? My feeling is the other ammo makers are doing the same but are not being as open or honest.
One thing for sure, there will 'much wailing and gnashing of the teeth' come October when the general public goes shopping for their favorite ammo. Present company excepted, of course.
Unless you count the 1994 and 2008 panics as part of the same deal, it's been going on since late last fall, not years. That's when Sandy Hook happened and all the anti-gunners started making noises. Before then you could walk into any sporting goods store and buy a brick of primers or .22 ammo at normal prices.
I went to a local gun show during the summer 2008, during the first Obama panic. A guy I knew asked me what the problem was with primer availability, and I explained it was panic buying. The guy with him was a conspiracy theorist, and said it was due to Washington, that we didn't know what was going on "behind closed doors." I didn't try to argue with him, since he obviously had inside information--inside his head, that is. Within six months everything was back to normal.
It will take longer this time, because this panic is much deeper. What I can't figure out is why rimfire ammo became the object of desire. In both the 1994 (assault-rifle ban) and 2008 panics, primers were the biggest problem, but rimfire ammo never was affected.
.22s were hard to find in the 08 panic here. Though it didn't last anywhere near this long.
Just look what an average shooter might shoot in .22 in a year. Maybe a 1000 rounds at most - for an average guy with a handful of firearms and goes out and shoots a few times a year. Maybe even less or a lot less.
However he can walk in and pick up 5x that much ammo when he finds it in stock and not even not a cart. So right there an average shooter is demanding 5x more than regular production, maybe more.
Not that hard to udnerstand. My neighbor never shoots. He owns one rifle, a 22. He has bought 10,000 rounds this year.
Unlike more expensive centerfire ammo it's easy for a non active shooter to pick up massive amounts of ammo compared to what they normaally demand in a year.
I find it kind of odd that one of the local gun shops I frequent in town just got a new shipment of Hornady ammo and they had several boxes of 130gr SST .270 Win. That is one of the "suspended" item. I guess I should have grabbed a couple of boxes.
My Celtic Conspiratorial Mind doen't like this at all.
There hasn't been a false flag incident and yet ammo production is being restricted and back orders cancelled?
Is Hornady the only one? My feeling is the other ammo makers are doing the same but are not being as open or honest.
One thing for sure, there will 'much wailing and gnashing of the teeth' come October when the general public goes shopping for their favorite ammo. Present company excepted, of course.
Remington is building an even bigger facility to help increase production in AR. Finally herd from a family member that works there, that they are very busy and running at production as well.
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