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this is no different than the evolutionary changes in plant life that has been occurring at least since that Monk worked on field peas to make them taller or shorter.

it's only faster (more fast?).

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Originally Posted by Gus
this is no different than the evolutionary changes in plant life that has been occurring at least since that Monk worked on field peas to make them taller or shorter.

it's only faster (more fast?).

Not even close. There are worlds apart between the method by which nature made the wolf and man made the dog on the one hand (natural and intelligent selection), and the method by which scientists create Frankenfoods.
I had no idea that alfalfa was the fourth most widely grown field crop in the U.S. I find that hard to believe. I would think that it would be measured in acres planted, and that cotton would beat it out, but hell, you never know. Anyway, what's so bad about GMO contamination????
Originally Posted by heavywalker
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+1. I'm with ya there, Bro.
I've grown "hybrid" tomato plants coming out of a city water/sewage trtmnt plant. ya never know what they'll do or produce.

types of hybridization occurs all the time, but only the strong will survive.
Originally Posted by Skeezix
I had no idea that alfalfa was the fourth most widely grown field crop in the U.S. I find that hard to believe. I would think that it would be measured in acres planted, and that cotton would beat it out, but hell, you never know. Anyway, what's so bad about GMO contamination????
Read up. The Internet is your friend.
Originally Posted by Gus
I've grown "hybrid" tomato plants coming out of a city water/sewage trtmnt plant. ya never know what they'll do or produce.

types of hybridization occurs all the time, but only the strong will survive.
GMO isn't hybridization.
it appears you're trying to bifurcate plant reproduction whether it occurs naturally, like a pink dogwood chimera, or a cross-bred type of sweet corn.

i know, you want to paint with a broad brush and include biological laboratory manipulation and imputation of genes into a chromosome to create a new kind of plant with specific strengths, etc.

they've cloned the sheep, why not clone a few more plants?
Originally Posted by Gus
it appears you're trying to bifurcate plant reproduction whether it occurs naturally, like a pink dogwood chimera, or a cross-bred type of sweet corn.

i know, you want to paint with a broad brush and include biological laboratory manipulation and imputation of genes into a chromosome to create a new kind of plant with specific strengths, etc.

they've cloned the sheep, why not clone a few more plants?
What you say above is gobbledygook. Hybridization is something that occurs in nature. Man uses the same methods as nature does to create hybrids. Hybrids are crosses between closely related species. GMO not only doesn't merely cross closely related species, but even cuts across kingdoms, using highly sophisticated laboratory technology, to achieve its ends, creating monstrosities that could never have existed in nature, regardless of what they might look like on the outside. These monstrosities are then introduced into nature without having the foggiest notion as to long term consequences, as if the earth were a test tube in a laboratory buried deep inside a mountain, and vacuum sealed by multiple firewalls from the possibility of accidental release. Irresponsible doesn't begin to describe it.
Had a pig farmer (60 K pigs per year) in Denmark tell me how he solved GMO issues on his farm. Feeds it to his pigs then sell them to the slaughter house or to feed lots.

Problem solved
So, don't eat any alfalfa.
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Skeezix
I had no idea that alfalfa was the fourth most widely grown field crop in the U.S. I find that hard to believe. I would think that it would be measured in acres planted, and that cotton would beat it out, but hell, you never know. Anyway, what's so bad about GMO contamination????
Read up. The Internet is your friend.


He asks you a question....you obviously can't answer.
OK...explain IN DETAIL how GMO crops are dangerous to man and beast?

I don't want some environmentalist groups conjecture...facts please.
TRH, first off you should call it Transgenic instead of GMO (genetically modified organism). It's not a cross at all, it is the insertion of a gene into a specific part of the genome. So you really think that adding a code sequence from a bacteria to detoxify glyphosate really alters significantly a genetic sequence that is millions of sequences long? You are doubtless aware that the human genome contains fungus like, bacteria like, and apmhibian like gene sequences too. Are you a monstrositie also?

The two issues that I see of concern are contamination of the genetic base and labeling (lack of) foods so that people might vote with their dollars.
Originally Posted by BeanMan
You are doubtless aware that the human genome contains fungus like, bacteria like, and apmhibian like gene sequences too. Are you a monstrositie also?
Mitochondria and the like are hardly new additions to our make up concocted in a laboratory. We partnered with them before our ancestors were rightly considered true multicellular organisms ... rather more akin to complex colonies of single cell organisms. I will add, however, that our DNA is not merged, as mitochondrial DNA remains entirely distinct from that of our species, i.e., from that found in our cellular nuclei.
OK...now, what is the Real danger of this?

I can see that the GMO plants can contaminate open pollinated plants and destroy the variety forever.

Are there any other documented deleterious effects on anything?
why is inserting a gene into a potato plant to help it resist a fatal or near fatal frost a bad thing?
Originally Posted by luv2safari
OK...now, what is the Real danger of this?

I can see that the GMO plants can contaminate open pollinated plants and destroy the variety forever.

Are there any other documented deleterious effects on anything?
Do you think it wise to experiment in this way with the entire world before your question is answered? smirk
Originally Posted by Gus
why is inserting a gene into a potato plant to help it resist a fatal or near fatal frost a bad thing?


In that case, why is inserting a few odd-bod genes into the genetic structure of your grand-children a bad thing?
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by luv2safari
OK...now, what is the Real danger of this?

I can see that the GMO plants can contaminate open pollinated plants and destroy the variety forever.

Are there any other documented deleterious effects on anything?
Do you think it wise to experiment in this way with the entire world before your question is answered? smirk


No.
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by luv2safari
OK...now, what is the Real danger of this?

I can see that the GMO plants can contaminate open pollinated plants and destroy the variety forever.

Are there any other documented deleterious effects on anything?
Do you think it wise to experiment in this way with the entire world before your question is answered? smirk


No.
Thank you. GMTA.
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by luv2safari
OK...now, what is the Real danger of this?

I can see that the GMO plants can contaminate open pollinated plants and destroy the variety forever.

Are there any other documented deleterious effects on anything?
Do you think it wise to experiment in this way with the entire world before your question is answered? smirk


Then...answer my question. Don't answer with another question, just known facts and documentation.
Originally Posted by luv2safari
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by luv2safari
OK...now, what is the Real danger of this?

I can see that the GMO plants can contaminate open pollinated plants and destroy the variety forever.

Are there any other documented deleterious effects on anything?
Do you think it wise to experiment in this way with the entire world before your question is answered? smirk


Then...answer my question. Don't answer with another question, just known facts and documentation.
The problem is that we know too little about a vast area of entirely, and categorically, new scientific manipulations of nature. A comparison to releasing a troop of monkeys into the control room of a nuclear power plant hugely understates it.
Originally Posted by luv2safari


Then...answer my question. Don't answer with another question, just known facts and documentation.


That is the problem, there are none...and until there are then I am not comfortable with taking Monsanto's (or anyone else's) word for it.
" A comparison to releasing a troop of monkeys into the control room of a nuclear power plant hugely understates it. "

That's a gratuitous assumption, since you know NO facts.

I'm not advocating GMO crops. I am tired of hearing horror stories that as yet have absolutely no basis in testing and documentation.

Again, where are your facts to back up this assertion regarding monkeys? Hysteria is not science.


On face, it does appear that these plants could contaminate heirloom varieties that are open pollinated. Show me what danger they pose, other than this...no small disaster in itself.
Originally Posted by luv2safari
That's a gratuitous assumption, since you know NO facts.
The facts are fundamental to the biological sciences, and I've stated them. If their implication elude you, I'm not sure I can help.
You can't answer with the facts, can you, so you blow smoke. Since they "elude" me, explain them.
You are a major dumbphuck.
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by Gus
why is inserting a gene into a potato plant to help it resist a fatal or near fatal frost a bad thing?


In that case, why is inserting a few odd-bod genes into the genetic structure of your grand-children a bad thing?


a computer chip like we're putting in dogs, cats, horses, etc. might not be a bad thing?

but, back on subject, i don't want them starving to death either. or anyone else in the world, when the human population hits 9 billion or more. food production is becoming very important, as undoubtedly you already know.
Originally Posted by luv2safari
You can't answer with the facts, can you, so you blow smoke. Since they "elude" me, explain them.
I assume you're perfectly capable of researching this on your own in our modern information age, assuming you are actually as curious as you pretend. "GMO dangers," typed into a search engine, will provide for you a veritable avalanche of information to sift through. Happy reading.
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by luv2safari


Then...answer my question. Don't answer with another question, just known facts and documentation.


That is the problem, there are none...and until there are then I am not comfortable with taking Monsanto's (or anyone else's) word for it.


Now, that's a reasonable answer. It also blows holes in TRH's assumptions, disguised as facts. wink
Originally Posted by Gus
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by Gus
why is inserting a gene into a potato plant to help it resist a fatal or near fatal frost a bad thing?


In that case, why is inserting a few odd-bod genes into the genetic structure of your grand-children a bad thing?


a computer chip like we're putting in dogs, cats, horses, etc. might not be a bad thing?

but, back on subject, i don't want them starving to death either. or anyone else in the world, when the human population hits 9 billion or more. food production is becoming very important, as undoubtedly you already know.
OK Reverend Malthus. smirk
I don't read 99% of your ramblings, but I am willing to bet you would prefer AND pay a premium for, some crop I grow in schit, then cart to the farmer's market, where I draw a sign with my sharpie on a piece of paper, reading ORGANIC.
It would just make you FEEL healthier reading it, let alone eating.
Some Americans are duped by the wacko's again.
GMO is a buzzword, scare tactic that the liberal, granola, uninformed, drones have swallowed hook, line and sinker.
Go ahead and pay double for your "food"...I don't give a schit.
Just keep it to yourself.
you are either lazy or full of chit...most likely both..........peeker
and an attention whore..........peeker
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Gus
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by Gus
why is inserting a gene into a potato plant to help it resist a fatal or near fatal frost a bad thing?


In that case, why is inserting a few odd-bod genes into the genetic structure of your grand-children a bad thing?


a computer chip like we're putting in dogs, cats, horses, etc. might not be a bad thing?

but, back on subject, i don't want them starving to death either. or anyone else in the world, when the human population hits 9 billion or more. food production is becoming very important, as undoubtedly you already know.
OK Reverend Malthus. smirk


ol Thomas Malthus has been wrong so far. but then the Messiah hasn't returned yet either.
Originally Posted by Gus
ol Thomas Malthus has been wrong so far. but then the Messiah hasn't returned yet either.
But you admit to being a Malthusian, right?
I have friends that go organic crops.
I schit you not.
They will tell you that they will not eat the organic crops they grow, because they are bug infested, schit filled garbage.
Yet, they know that people like TRH will fight over and pay double to greedily buy their schit crop and they can turn a very tidy profit.
Non-GMO and/or Organic.....It's like porn, you may not watch it yourself or agree with it, but if you can make a boatload.......... grin
One understanding that I have is that GMO's redeuce bio-diversity, so if there was an outbreak that killed for instance the 'main-strain' of bananas, we would be sans bananas forever! crazy
LMAO...

Several years ago I grew "organic pumpkins", fertilized with horse schidt, lying in horse schidt.

I was flabbergasted at all the Kalipornya libby-nuts that flocked out of Reno to buy them at 5X the price of grocery store pumpkins. They didn't want "contaminated" pumpkins for their little-lib kids.
Originally Posted by wageslave
I have friends that go organic crops.
I schit you not.
They will tell you that they will not eat the organic crops they grow, because they are bug infested, schit filled garbage.
Yet, they know that people like TRH will fight over and pay double to greedily buy their schit crop and they can turn a very tidy profit.
Non-GMO and/or Organic.....It's like porn, you may not watch it yourself or agree with it, but if you can make a boatload.......... grin


Organic is a joke on the buyers that buy into that crap.
you realize that peeker has the 4 of us on ignore...
Originally Posted by luv2safari
LMAO...

Several years ago I grew "organic pumpkins", fertilized with horse schidt, lying in horse schidt.

I was flabbergasted at all the Kalipornya libby-nuts that flocked out of Reno to buy them at 5X the price of grocery store pumpkins. They didn't want "contaminated" pumpkins for their little-lib kids.
Central to a conservative disposition is a preference for the tried and true vs the new and untested by time, which is the explanation for the popularity of organic produce, and opposition to GMO, among a growing segment of conservatives.
16-16-16 is pretty tried and true, but some just prefer to be fed horseschit. grin

My "organic" customer are about 90% liberals, 5% conservatives, and 5% nothings.

I eat the stuff grown on the 16-16-16 and 16-20-0, myself. wink
The way Monsanto and other ag labs are so heavily backed up by the government seems that GMO is more likely GovernmentMandatedOperations.
I'm not educated enough to pick a side here. But I do remember some report (which I can't find now) linking GMO corn to a much higher incidence of allergic reactions.

Anyone remember this or have a link to it? I don't remember who did the study, so can't say if it was biased or not.

Like I said, not educated enough, but it does worry me when humans think they can use science to "improve" mother nature. Sometimes we might. Other times, seems like a recipe for failure. Time will tell. Maybe.
Originally Posted by pira114
I'm not educated enough to pick a side here. But I do remember some report (which I can't find now) linking GMO corn to a much higher incidence of allergic reactions.

Anyone remember this or have a link to it? I don't remember who did the study, so can't say if it was biased or not.

Like I said, not educated enough, but it does worry me when humans think they can use science to "improve" mother nature. Sometimes we might. Other times, seems like a recipe for failure. Time will tell. Maybe.
Luddite! grin
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by pira114
I'm not educated enough to pick a side here. But I do remember some report (which I can't find now) linking GMO corn to a much higher incidence of allergic reactions.

Anyone remember this or have a link to it? I don't remember who did the study, so can't say if it was biased or not.

Like I said, not educated enough, but it does worry me when humans think they can use science to "improve" mother nature. Sometimes we might. Other times, seems like a recipe for failure. Time will tell. Maybe.
Luddite! grin


Ya know what? Yeah, sometimes I kinda am. I refuse to use self check out. Does that count?
Originally Posted by pira114
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Luddite! grin


Ya know what? Yeah, sometimes I kinda am. I refuse to use self check out. Does that count?
Preach it, brother. smile
One major problem is that you can't sell gmo crops to many countries. If your field is contaminated you may not be able to fulfill contracts and suffer losses. You plant an heirloom variety to sell to Europe or someplace at high markup and spend a bunch of cash to grow this PIA heirloom and when it's tested it fails and you are now in the general US market and a high cost crop. This type of contamination is shutting our farmers out of lucrative markets in Japan and Europe. Monsanto is polluting the whole country but not paying anything for the destruction of these farmers ability to sell to their hard earned customers. Suits companies like Monsanto just fine because they had patented these modifications and if their pollution is found in your crop they can sue to block the sale of the crops as unlicensed use of patents. They have already done so to force farmers to use their seeds to ensure that they will be able to sell their crops. Monsanto is a really evil organization and is without morals.
Originally Posted by Daveinjax
One major problem is that you can't sell gmo crops to many countries. If your field is contaminated you may not be able to fulfill contracts and suffer losses. You plant an heirloom variety to sell to Europe or someplace at high markup and spend a bunch of cash to grow this PIA heirloom and when it's tested it fails and you are now in the general US market and a high cost crop. This type of contamination is shutting our farmers out of lucrative markets in Japan and Europe. Monsanto is polluting the whole country but not paying anything for the destruction of these farmers ability to sell to their hard earned customers. Suits companies like Monsanto just fine because they had patented these modifications and if their pollution is found in your crop they can sue to block the sale of the crops as unlicensed use of patents. They have already done so to force farmers to use their seeds to ensure that they will be able to sell their crops. Monsanto is a really evil organization and is without morals.
+1 They know all that, though. Their ignorance is feigned.
Cite some examples of your claim.
Please note where I am located.........
Fair warning.
I sure have no love for Monsanto. They are like most large corporations and have only profit as their goal, however they need to reach that profit.

As far as consuming GMO products, I have no fears. The concern...main concern, seems to be that they will contaminate our seed supply to the point there are no more pure heirloom plants and seeds. This alone is a disaster, IMO. I also wonder whether the contamination can enter vastly diverse plant life.

I'm not convinced GMO is bad, but I, too, want more research and unbiased data. wink
Originally Posted by luv2safari
OK...now, what is the Real danger of this?

I can see that the GMO plants can contaminate open pollinated plants and destroy the variety forever.

Are there any other documented deleterious effects on anything?


What The [bleep] is WRONG with you , Mister ?

........if that's a joke, it's sick.

If you are on the level, and that's a real inquiry, it's sicker by far.

GTC

And if the food mutates into poison and spreads?
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Gus
ol Thomas Malthus has been wrong so far. but then the Messiah hasn't returned yet either.
But you admit to being a Malthusian, right?


uh, no. but I might have a hint of Luddite running through my blood stream. in a more perfected world we might be a globe of interconnected semi-autonomous villages. I don't think we're currently headed in that direction. the Earth's human population is still increasing. until we reach peak population and begin a measurable decline back to more legitimate carrying capacity i'm going to leave room for T. Malthus to be correct in the long run.

the multi-national corporates are not dumb just because they want to maximize market share, profit, or revenue. they are long-run beasts. they can see what is facing humanity as well as any of us can. they are striving to meet human demands or they will perish. so, they do operate from self-interest for the benefit of the whole.

I love heirlooms. no problem there, but the big picture calls for feeding of a global population of humans. if GMO technology assists in meeting that goal, then so be it.

after we get down to 500.000.000 people spread strategically across and around the globe to minimize risks to the species, we can go back to 100 percent heirloom varieties. no problem. wink
Originally Posted by eh76
Originally Posted by wageslave
I have friends that go organic crops.
I schit you not.
They will tell you that they will not eat the organic crops they grow, because they are bug infested, schit filled garbage.
Yet, they know that people like TRH will fight over and pay double to greedily buy their schit crop and they can turn a very tidy profit.
Non-GMO and/or Organic.....It's like porn, you may not watch it yourself or agree with it, but if you can make a boatload.......... grin


Organic is a joke on the buyers that buy into that crap.


Right, 36-38 berries to the POUND on Goat and Alpaca manure is a figment of my imagination

[Linked Image]

14 (FOURTEEN) feet of cane growth in 2 months illustrates the sickly, "Bug Infested" methodology

June:

[Linked Image]

August:

[Linked Image]

Ya' know, I'd just as soon NOT have this strain corrupted by little pollen "Death Stars" and see it's legacy , non-hybrid vigor diminished.

Feed your Orchards and Gardens whatever you want, it WAS a free Country, last I checked.

I'd not be attacking other folk's approach as vehemently, it's not my style.

tell me what methods I'll be REQUIRED to use, and we'll have us a little rodeo, pal.

GTC

Originally Posted by Gus




I love heirlooms. no problem there, but the big picture calls for feeding of a global population of humans. if GMO technology assists in meeting that goal, then so be it.


Maybe that's our problem. Why is it our responsibility to feed the world? I bet if we stopped, the whole population growth thing wouldn't be such an issue.

Not very "global" of me, I know, but I'm curious when feeding millions in other countries became our problem?
Originally Posted by Gus
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Gus
ol Thomas Malthus has been wrong so far. but then the Messiah hasn't returned yet either.
But you admit to being a Malthusian, right?


uh, no. but ... the big picture calls for feeding of a global population of humans.
So, you're not a Malthusian, but you regularly imply the Malthusian error??
It's a fact that Round-Up ready corn(alfalfa) reduce herbicide use bigtime.

Round-up isn't nearly as 'bad' for the environment compared to certain chemicals.




That said I am a little nervous about the possible GMO half breed weeds(resistance) and things like that.
Originally Posted by pira114
Originally Posted by Gus




I love heirlooms. no problem there, but the big picture calls for feeding of a global population of humans. if GMO technology assists in meeting that goal, then so be it.


Maybe that's our problem. Why is it our responsibility to feed the world? I bet if we stopped, the whole population growth thing wouldn't be such an issue.

Not very "global" of me, I know, but I'm curious when feeding millions in other countries became our problem?


I did not mean it the way you understood it. grin

my intention was to convey the thought that a global GMO strategy would help feed the masses. the Chinese are buying land in Africa for food production for export back to China. they might be interested in a GMO seed source to maximize production on their land in Africa, etc. etc. sorry for my poor communication skills.
Originally Posted by pira114

Maybe that's our problem. Why is it our responsibility to feed the world? I bet if we stopped, the whole population growth thing wouldn't be such an issue.

Not very "global" of me, I know, but I'm curious when feeding millions in other countries became our problem?
Gus is a globalist.
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Gus
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Gus
ol Thomas Malthus has been wrong so far. but then the Messiah hasn't returned yet either.
But you admit to being a Malthusian, right?


uh, no. but ... the big picture calls for feeding of a global population of humans.
So, you're not a Malthusian, but you regularly imply the Malthusian error??


advancements in technology has kept alive so far. the GMO miracle is helping to contribute to the advancement of said technology. we're outrunning Mathusian's forecasts. let's pray we continue to do so. i'm sure he's glad he's been wrong for so long. let's keep him wrong.
GMOs are evil frankenfood

Man will never make it to the moon

The human body cannot withstand riding in a train that goes over 45 mph

The earth is flat


Mike
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by pira114

Maybe that's our problem. Why is it our responsibility to feed the world? I bet if we stopped, the whole population growth thing wouldn't be such an issue.

Not very "global" of me, I know, but I'm curious when feeding millions in other countries became our problem?
Gus is a globalist.


got news for ya. we all are, whether we know it, or accept it, or not.
Originally Posted by Gus
I did not mean it the way you understood it. grin

my intention was to convey the thought that a global GMO strategy would help feed the masses. the Chinese are buying land in Africa for food production for export back to China. they might be interested in a GMO seed source to maximize production on their land in Africa, etc. etc. sorry for my poor communication skills.
Doubt it. We're about the only country that hasn't outlawed the stuff. That's because Monsatan could afford to purchase our regulatory agencies.
Originally Posted by Gus
Originally Posted by pira114
Originally Posted by Gus




I love heirlooms. no problem there, but the big picture calls for feeding of a global population of humans. if GMO technology assists in meeting that goal, then so be it.


Maybe that's our problem. Why is it our responsibility to feed the world? I bet if we stopped, the whole population growth thing wouldn't be such an issue.

Not very "global" of me, I know, but I'm curious when feeding millions in other countries became our problem?


I did not mean it the way you understood it. grin

my intention was to convey the thought that a global GMO strategy would help feed the masses. the Chinese are buying land in Africa for food production for export back to China. they might be interested in a GMO seed source to maximize production on their land in Africa, etc. etc. sorry for my poor communication skills.


No worries. It's not the first time I misunderstood you!

And if the Chinese embrace GMOs, I really don't trust it now.
Originally Posted by Gus

advancements in technology has kept alive so far. the GMO miracle is helping to contribute to the advancement of said technology. we're outrunning Mathusian's forecasts. let's pray we continue to do so. i'm sure he's glad he's been wrong for so long. let's keep him wrong.
So why deny you're a Malthusian?
Gus wants to be John Lennon.
Originally Posted by eh76
you realize that peeker has the 4 of us on ignore...


I give a FRA what TRH is up to,......

making a joke out of sound, viable and profitable Ag. Ventures, based on PROVEN organic practice should be beneath you, Kieth.

This [bleep]' GMO and Chemical "Agri-business" approach is doing our creeks, rivers, and soil bank little (if any) good, and there IS a middle road,.......

I'll pop some pics ma�ana of the various bags and jugs that share my patch with the Goat and Alpaca (and Horse, Cow, and Chicken) chit.

Yes, you'll even see some 16-16-16 eek.

There's some glysophate in a sprayer, too,..... eek eek eek

This "Bug Infested garbage" innuendo is STUPID, and childish in the bloody extreme.

GTC
Originally Posted by Gus
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by pira114

Maybe that's our problem. Why is it our responsibility to feed the world? I bet if we stopped, the whole population growth thing wouldn't be such an issue.

Not very "global" of me, I know, but I'm curious when feeding millions in other countries became our problem?
Gus is a globalist.


got news for ya. we all are, whether we know it, or accept it, or not.
Exactly what a globalist would say.
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Gus

advancements in technology has kept alive so far. the GMO miracle is helping to contribute to the advancement of said technology. we're outrunning Mathusian's forecasts. let's pray we continue to do so. i'm sure he's glad he's been wrong for so long. let's keep him wrong.
So why deny you're a Malthusian?


why would I be? he's always been wrong hasn't he? why would anyone support someone who's always wrong?

with advancements in technology, he'll be wrong forever.

once we get beyond peak human population, we can leave him buried, and not worry about digging him up over and over again.
Originally Posted by Gus
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
So why deny you're a Malthusian?


why would I be? he's always been wrong hasn't he? why would anyone support someone who's always wrong?
Exactly. That's why it's perfect for you.
Quote


advancements in technology has kept alive so far. the GMO miracle is helping to contribute to the advancement of said technology. we're outrunning Mathusian's forecasts. let's pray we continue to do so. i'm sure he's glad he's been wrong for so long. let's keep him wrong.


Hey, stupid,....post some goddam pics of your patch, or STFU.

.....the fact that third world folks living in a goddam GREENHOUSE can't feed themselves is not my problem, it's THEIRS.

GTC

Originally Posted by 6mm250
GMOs are evil frankenfood

Man will never make it to the moon

The human body cannot withstand riding in a train that goes over 45 mph

The earth is flat


Mike


And smoking isn't bad for you.

Tape worms are a good way to lose weight.

Sugar alternatives are not bad for you.

Etc, etc...


We could both go on I guess. I prefer erring on the side of caution and not trusting my health to big corporate and the Government. They very well could be safe viable means to increase quantity and quality. I'd like to see more evidence to support that before we no longer have an option.

Probably too late for that.
Originally Posted by pira114
I'd like to see more evidence to support that before we no longer have an option.

Probably too late for that.
Sadly, I agree.
it is to late. and has been since the mid-fifties, imho.
Usuaal arguments and name calling. I didn't read all the stuff. I object to having a corp. own the food I need, and letting it's "special property" get into my or my neighbors crops and then assuming they own it too because it contains their stray genes. The different problems brought on by monocultures is something else to wonder about.
Originally Posted by SamOlson
It's a fact that Round-Up ready corn(alfalfa) reduce herbicide use bigtime.

Round-up isn't nearly as 'bad' for the environment compared to certain chemicals.




That said I am a little nervous about the possible GMO half breed weeds(resistance) and things like that.


You already have resistance "things" in non-GMO Sammo.
What you grow for yourself and what the grower that is growing large scale for the market are vastly different animals.
Originally Posted by wageslave
Originally Posted by SamOlson
It's a fact that Round-Up ready corn(alfalfa) reduce herbicide use bigtime.

Round-up isn't nearly as 'bad' for the environment compared to certain chemicals.




That said I am a little nervous about the possible GMO half breed weeds(resistance) and things like that.


You already have resistance "things" in non-GMO Sammo.




Dude, great point.


For those that care, this is one of hundreds of articles about the negative side of GMOs

http://www.theorganicprepper.ca/mov...thstand-even-deadlier-herbicide-09012013
That is a link to a kook sight.

Not joking.
Originally Posted by wageslave
What you grow for yourself and what the grower that is growing large scale for the market are vastly different animals.


My "Market" IS a population of "Vastly different " young animals, Mister.

[Linked Image]

Whether you like it, agree with it, find it a ready target for demented vitriol, or not,......

[Linked Image]

LOTS of young parents WANT to bring their kids to "You Pick" operations and get them involved with the actual SOURCE of their food. While visiting they seem to be PASSIONATELY interested in learning how to grow /raise their foods at home.

[Linked Image]

The starving dogs in India ( or East L.A.) are really not my "market", anyway.

"Vastly different" ?

I say, "Vive La difference !"

GTC



This one might be more balanced for you.
http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/gmfood/overview.php
Originally Posted by SamOlson
Originally Posted by wageslave
Originally Posted by SamOlson
It's a fact that Round-Up ready corn(alfalfa) reduce herbicide use bigtime.

Round-up isn't nearly as 'bad' for the environment compared to certain chemicals.




That said I am a little nervous about the possible GMO half breed weeds(resistance) and things like that.


You already have resistance "things" in non-GMO Sammo.




Dude, great point.




We are already having problems with Round Up resistant weeds on our farm here in northern Missouri.
Originally Posted by crossfireoops


Yes, you'll even see some 16-16-16 eek.

There's some glysophate in a sprayer, too,..... eek eek eek



Good deal.
Do you still consider yourself "organic"?
That is really cool crossfire. Great pics!
It is a very nice setup.
Results look Impressive too.
Cross has a pretty sweet set-up. I'm hoping to get my hands on some blackberry brandy!
I've got a MAJOR problem on my fence lines, boundaries with Russian Thistle offa' Neighbor's places that will NOT summer fallow or cultivate and plant grasses to choke the bastids out.

I NEVER said I was "Organic",.....you're saying that.

....and I'm not up for a pissing contest, or a lotta' gas from someone who blithely made your opening comments, Buck.

I have moved a LOT of irrigation pipe, watched MANY, MANY sections disappear behind diesel snorted implements, harvested on BIG outfits and small, and pushed prime cattle around a bit too.

I don't mock other's choices of what they do on their land, or with their crops.

When THEIR chit starts threatening other folk's, it gets a bit different.

Simple, no ?

GTC

I don't mock what anyone eats, worships or does in the privacy of their own home.
When they tout "facts" that are "not", it's open range. Simple, no?
Have fun.
Originally Posted by wageslave
I have friends that go organic crops.
I schit you not.
They will tell you that they will not eat the organic crops they grow, because they are bug infested, schit filled garbage.
Yet, they know that people like TRH will fight over and pay double to greedily buy their schit crop and they can turn a very tidy profit.
Non-GMO and/or Organic.....It's like porn, you may not watch it yourself or agree with it, but if you can make a boatload.......... grin
Originally Posted by wageslave
I don't mock what anyone eats, worships or does in the privacy of their own home.
When they tout "facts" that are "not", it's open range. Simple, no?
Have fun.


......right

GTC
More and more roundup resistant weeds already. When you drive through Georgia cotton country you will see the mexicans out in the fields completely covered in heavy clothes and gloves manually pulling the pig weed out of the fields. The weed is completely immune to roundup and is really nasty stuff. It will blister the hide off you if you rub against it. What's bad is that there is a generation of farmers coming along who don't know how to farm without roundup and as roundup effectiveness fades the skills and seed to feed us all will be lacking in the farmers who are learning their trade today. Gmo monoculture and roundup may be the thing that kills us all in the end when it all collapses. Few varieties of seed and total dependence on herbicides leaves us very vulnerable to disease wiping out our food supply.
That highlighted text is a near verbatim quote from an organic growing friend.
He is supplying what the "modern" consumer wants, at a value added price.
It is for a higher profit that the product is being produced, period.
The koolaid drinking consumer is convinced they are getting a pure and heathy product because the enviro crowd has deemed it so if it says "organic".
He doesn't eat his own produce or grains.
I applaud him for being smart enough to take advantage of a ready market, while it is available.
Looks like you are taking advantage too. Good for you.
Originally Posted by Dons99
This one might be more balanced for you.
http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/gmfood/overview.php




Good read.


I quoted the conclusion.

"Conclusion

Genetically-modified foods have the potential to solve many of the world's hunger and malnutrition problems, and to help protect and preserve the environment by increasing yield and reducing reliance upon chemical pesticides and herbicides. Yet there are many challenges ahead for governments, especially in the areas of safety testing, regulation, international policy and food labeling. Many people feel that genetic engineering is the inevitable wave of the future and that we cannot afford to ignore a technology that has such enormous potential benefits. However, we must proceed with caution to avoid causing unintended harm to human health and the environment as a result of our enthusiasm for this powerful technology.
"




A true farmer wants to use as little spray as possible. That's no secret.

Long term use(life) is just that, preserve it.
Do you SPIT after using the term, "Enviro crowd" ?

...your 'Friend" sounds like some sorta' incompetent cretin, with little in the way of growing skills, or knowledge. Some real [bleep]' achiever that,....grows bug infested garbage ?

Quote
He doesn't eat his own produce or grains.


Sounds like a goddam DIRTBAG, if you were to ask me.

I am CLUELESS as to figuring out what's up with your attitude, and really don't mind remaining so.

Why not cut your losses, and give it a [bleep]' rest for the night ?

GTC



Yeah, he a incompetent cretin, making money.
Seems you can name call, stomp your foot and give off attitude fairly well too.
But you did admit you are clueless, so I'll let it go.
Originally Posted by heavywalker
[Linked Image]


Bingo. Corn is corn, unless it has a worm in it. Then it's hog corn.
Guess Im a little sensitive about this kind of thing after my wife came down with cancer few years ago. Did a lot of reading and hard to believe the [bleep] they do to & put in our food.
Originally Posted by Daveinjax
More and more roundup resistant weeds already. When you drive through Georgia cotton country you will see the mexicans out in the fields completely covered in heavy clothes and gloves manually pulling the pig weed out of the fields. The weed is completely immune to roundup and is really nasty stuff. It will blister the hide off you if you rub against it. What's bad is that there is a generation of farmers coming along who don't know how to farm without roundup and as roundup effectiveness fades the skills and seed to feed us all will be lacking in the farmers who are learning their trade today. Gmo monoculture and roundup may be the thing that kills us all in the end when it all collapses. Few varieties of seed and total dependence on herbicides leaves us very vulnerable to disease wiping out our food supply.
Well said.
Originally Posted by Daveinjax
More and more roundup resistant weeds already. When you drive through Georgia cotton country you will see the mexicans out in the fields completely covered in heavy clothes and gloves manually pulling the pig weed out of the fields. The weed is completely immune to roundup and is really nasty stuff. It will blister the hide off you if you rub against it. What's bad is that there is a generation of farmers coming along who don't know how to farm without roundup and as roundup effectiveness fades the skills and seed to feed us all will be lacking in the farmers who are learning their trade today. Gmo monoculture and roundup may be the thing that kills us all in the end when it all collapses. Few varieties of seed and total dependence on herbicides leaves us very vulnerable to disease wiping out our food supply.


Geez, I always thought they wore heavy shirts and gloves to protect themselves from the vicious thorns on cotton plants.
I think the people that are going out to a place like Crossfireloops or Scott f's and actually looking at the crop in the field, then picking what they want, are doing it right.
The vast majority though are in a metro area "market" or high priced food Co-Op store, far from the field. Then they are at the mercy of believing what they are being told by the salesman.
Originally Posted by wageslave
Yeah, he a incompetent cretin, making money.
Seems you can name call, stomp your foot and give off attitude fairly well too.
But you did admit you are clueless, so I'll let it go.


Making money,.......

yup, that's our ultimate purpose for being here, right ?

.....nothing else matters much... ( like the QUALITY of one's work, maybe? )

Seems like our value systems may be slightly at odds, Bubba.

GTC.

We spray our wheat crop one time for weeds.
Long before it ever makes a kernel. Months later we harvest the crop.

Honestly I don't think there is any danger in the grain. Cancer/health, environmental or otherwise.


The now illegal chemicals of old were way more dangerous.

Illegal for a reason.



Direct exposure(soaking through your skin) to the concentrated 100 proof chemical of old was not a good thing.



Sorry to hear about your wife. Amazing treatments these days, hopefully she will be okay.

Skin cancer took my grandpa(a farmer), breast cancer almost got my mom.








I don't sell or grow food, seed or feed.
I do sell labor, so quality there, is a way to make more money.
I do admit to liking a paycheck, also.
America, sadly, is adept at taking hard earned money and giving it to the non-working.
I do not value that system.
I lied.
I do have a garden.
I do not sell it's production.
I feel better, now.


P.S. Still picking tomatoes and cukes....had to cover them for a couple nights last week. grin
Somebody needs to invent alfalfa that grasshoppers and deer won't eat.
We had yellow jacket, hornet nirvana around here this year...........
The boys said you could watch in the bulk tank or better yet in the truck box and the bees were dive bombing those wounded hoppers that went in the combine.
Worst bee year in anyone's memory here.
You could absolutely not eat outside because you were getting attacked.......
Stayed that way all summer till it got cold and wet a couple weeks ago.
Wife's good to go now but pretty scarey there for awhile. Sorry to hear about your grandpa but great to hear about you mom.
Good deal.


Yeah, who really knows for sure what will kill a person when it comes to the 'unknown'.


There was a recent study done that said people in rural communities had a higher chance or getting alzheimer's.

One theory said maybe it was due to spray/chemical exposure.

Lots of speculation.


Let's all keep in mind that there never was a golden age of pre-industrial food.

People used to die like flies from contaminated food. Refrigeration alone has balanced out a lot of negatives in the modern food industry.

Bottom line; fewer Americans die from eating supper.
Weed resistance to herbicides is quite common and not just limited to glyphosate. The real mystery is why it has taken so long to start showing up. Most people act like this glyphosate is the first chemical that has had this happen. Most people also seem to think that there are not other chemicals besides glyphosate that us Aggies use.
Originally Posted by crossfireoops
Originally Posted by eh76
you realize that peeker has the 4 of us on ignore...


I give a FRA what TRH is up to,......

making a joke out of sound, viable and profitable Ag. Ventures, based on PROVEN organic practice should be beneath you, Kieth.

This [bleep]' GMO and Chemical "Agri-business" approach is doing our creeks, rivers, and soil bank little (if any) good, and there IS a middle road,.......

I'll pop some pics ma�ana of the various bags and jugs that share my patch with the Goat and Alpaca (and Horse, Cow, and Chicken) chit.

Yes, you'll even see some 16-16-16 eek.

There's some glysophate in a sprayer, too,..... eek eek eek

This "Bug Infested garbage" innuendo is STUPID, and childish in the bloody extreme.

GTC


I get mine from nearby dairies and a feedlot; probably is loaded up with antibiotics and steroids...

I don't do any spraying anymore. Bugs gotta eat, too. grin

I loved the photos of the older berry variety. There are some blackberry bushes up in Virginia City that go back over 100 years in origin. They are isolated, and I'm going to try to harvest some seed from them. As isolated as I am from any other blackberry bushes, I believe I can keep them pure as a real heirloom variety.

The berries are small, but the flavor is so stupendous that they completely eclipse anything the commercial growers can offer.
Originally Posted by tjm10025

Let's all keep in mind that there never was a golden age of pre-industrial food.

People used to die like flies from contaminated food. Refrigeration alone has balanced out a lot of negatives in the modern food industry.

Bottom line; fewer Americans die from eating supper.


Very true. The "Good 'Ol days" weren't so good.
Originally Posted by crossfireoops
Quote


advancements in technology has kept alive so far. the GMO miracle is helping to contribute to the advancement of said technology. we're outrunning Mathusian's forecasts. let's pray we continue to do so. i'm sure he's glad he's been wrong for so long. let's keep him wrong.


Hey, stupid,....post some goddam pics of your patch, or STFU.

.....the fact that third world folks living in a goddam GREENHOUSE can't feed themselves is not my problem, it's THEIRS.

GTC



Cross is smack on with this...and I do not believe we have a food shortage problem so much as a over-abundance of people problem.


And they can bloody well stop sending the over-flow to us.
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by crossfireoops
Quote


advancements in technology has kept alive so far. the GMO miracle is helping to contribute to the advancement of said technology. we're outrunning Mathusian's forecasts. let's pray we continue to do so. i'm sure he's glad he's been wrong for so long. let's keep him wrong.


Hey, stupid,....post some goddam pics of your patch, or STFU.

.....the fact that third world folks living in a goddam GREENHOUSE can't feed themselves is not my problem, it's THEIRS.

GTC



Cross is smack on with this...and I do not believe we have a food shortage problem so much as a over-abundance of people problem.


And they can bloody well stop sending the over-flow to us.


STU, we have neither. The problem we have is third world tinhorn dictators not allowing their people to be productive and feed themselves. There are parts of Africa that face 90% taxation, and no one can figure out why people won't work and be productive.
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper


STU, we have neither. The problem we have is third world tinhorn dictators not allowing their people to be productive and feed themselves. There are parts of Africa that face 90% taxation, and no one can figure out why people won't work and be productive.


With respect "we" do not have that problem, "they" do...why are "we" responsible for those that cannot build a decent p!sshouse or feed themselves?

Why are "we" responsible for some twat's inability to get off his lazy backside and grow a garden or hunt, and why are our tax dollars being used to cover "his" arse and feed "his" family...and if "he" has a despotic Government then it is up to "him and his" to change that.

We are having enough problems looking to our own.


ps, I am aware that you did not mean "we" in that context, I am just feeling a little bit p!ssy.
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Skeezix
I had no idea that alfalfa was the fourth most widely grown field crop in the U.S. I find that hard to believe. I would think that it would be measured in acres planted, and that cotton would beat it out, but hell, you never know. Anyway, what's so bad about GMO contamination????
Read up. The Internet is your friend.


Right, because they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true...
Quote
They are isolated, and I'm going to try to harvest some seed from them.


If possible you should get some root stock. Better chance of getting pure stock but if they are that isolated you might be good. miles

[/quote]

Maybe that's our problem. Why is it our responsibility to feed the world? I bet if we stopped, the whole population growth thing wouldn't be such an issue.

Not very "global" of me, I know, but I'm curious when feeding millions in other countries became our problem? [/quote]

What do you think the millions of people in other countries will do when they all become hungry? Hungry people do crazy things. There would be a lot of unintended consequences if the world food supply were suddenly cut off.
Originally Posted by BeanMan


The two issues that I see of concern are contamination of the genetic base and labeling (lack of) foods so that people might vote with their dollars.


I agree 110%. Label and let the consumers vote with their dollars. If the consumer was willing to pay for it, we could see a shift in this country toward organic, American grown food. Unfortunately, the average consumer doesn't care where their food comes from as long as its cheap. If nutrition wasn't a distant second place concern, you wouldn't see aisle after aisle of "convenience food" and over processed junk in our grocery stores. Can't spend those extra dollars on nutritious food when we have all those really important things to pay for like smart phones and cable tv.
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
The problem we have is third world tinhorn dictators not allowing their people to be productive and feed themselves. There are parts of Africa that face 90% taxation, and no one can figure out why people won't work and be productive.
Precisely. People are starving due to oppressive and authoritarian states. Absent that, people can feed themselves without difficulty.
Originally Posted by 308scout
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Skeezix
I had no idea that alfalfa was the fourth most widely grown field crop in the U.S. I find that hard to believe. I would think that it would be measured in acres planted, and that cotton would beat it out, but hell, you never know. Anyway, what's so bad about GMO contamination????
Read up. The Internet is your friend.


Right, because they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true...
Your logic is badly wanting. By that argument, one also shouldn't visit libraries, since there are many books containing error and falsehood.

One must research with intelligence. If that's too daunting for you, leave it to others.
Nothing wrong with my logic. I am sure you can "research" long enough to back up whatever argument you want to make.
Originally Posted by 308scout
Unfortunately, the average consumer doesn't care where their food comes from as long as its cheap.
If that's the case, one wonders why Monsatan spends so much money opposing labeling requirements for GMO.
Like I said, go ahead and label food. I personally think it is an excellent idea. But, if you are right, why are organic food stores not putting the regular grocery stores out of business left and right? Or, why haven't regular grocery stores vastly expanded their organic food sections?
How many of you guys would like to know where your beef was grown?

Cool(country of origin labeling) is being fought over right now.


Obviously I'm biased towards American grown beef.


We import from Canada, Mexico and a few South American countries.


I don't have a problem with Canada but am a little leery of the others.

Organic Mexican lettuce scares me.
Originally Posted by 308scout
Like I said, go ahead and label food. I personally think it is an excellent idea. But, if you are right, why are organic food stores not putting the regular grocery stores out of business left and right?
Because the "big box" grocery stores succumbed to economic pressure and started carrying organic foods. Where have you been this past decade? Stationed in an antarctic science base? crazy
Sam,he is growing on 3 acres of kline grass as i type this.

He has a date with the butcher on the 16th,then he is good eating.

That stuff sure grows some tasty critters.
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by 308scout
Like I said, go ahead and label food. I personally think it is an excellent idea. But, if you are right, why are organic food stores not putting the regular grocery stores out of business left and right?
Because the "big box" grocery stores succumbed to economic pressure and started carrying organic foods. Where have you been this past decade? Stationed in an antarctic science base? crazy


No, living in the real world. I never said there wasn't organic sections in stores but, I guarantee that the organic section of the big box store is a he!! of a lot smaller than the rest of the grocery section. And, if you think all consumers are really that concerned about the nutrition they ingest into their body, why are soda and candy bar sales as high as they are? What about people who smoke? Yes, nicotine and caffeine are highly addictive, but if people REALLY cared, they would stop all these in a heartbeat. Sugar in soda and tobacco are worse for you than most of what we eat.

And sure, people are starting to care more about what they eat, but at the end of the day most of them care more about price. Not arguing right or wrong, just how it is. Not telling you how to live your life, I could care less. Congratulations to you for being able to afford much higher priced food, I wish everybody could.

Say no to GMO!
_____________________________________

(PNS reporting from WASHINGTON, DC) A new Food and Drug Administration study has detected a questionable strain of genetically-engineered corn in taco shells produced for Taco Bell.

�It could cause digestive problems, cramping, spasms, allergic reactions and even night blindness,� Colonel Ben Enoso of the FDA�s Genetic Corn Division told a press conference Monday. �Unfortunately, this makes it pretty hard to distinguish from other Taco Bell food items.�

The corn, which carries a gene designed to kill insect pests if eaten, has been approved as feed for animals but not humans. Scientists suspect the human body will not be able to digest a key protein in this killer corn and privately dread having to dig around for undigested corn samples afterwards.

Anti-GMO activists see this as part of a plan to sneak genetically-engineered foods into the global digestive system.

�They�re pushing this monster maize down our throats,� Barry Aguitado, spokesman for the Tortilla Liberation Front told PNS, �so corporations can control the world food supply. Then, with their Monsanto Protection Act, they�ll have us by the niblets.�

Another group, Children of the Corn, recently destroyed genetically-engineered crops in greenhouses at UCSD. �They were developing a strain of hominy that will be ineffective against the cruda,� said Han Gober, a member of the group, adding, �we had to stop them in the name of all that is holy.�

Aguitado and others accuse multinational corporations of putting profits before public health when it comes to introducing genetically-engineered foods into the human diet.

Prof. Gene Fregadera of Buscalana Laboratories disagrees. �We test all our products thoroughly on Angry Birds. They fly through the air with the greatest of ease.�

But critics are not convinced and remain mistrustful of the unseen hand of science. The FDA report follows a recent discovery in Battle Creek, MI of a seven-ton production run of Cheerios made with pet-food-grade oats � oats genetically engineered to teach dogs to play poker.

�Corporations need to stop playing with our food and keep their hands out of our genes,� Peter E. Dische, author of the groundbreaking book Our Bodies, Our Cells, wrote in a column for the Huffington Post.

�The use of genetic engineering, growth hormones and improper megafarm techniques have also created such public health disasters as Mad Cow Disease and new poultry epidemics such as Daffy Duck Disorder and the Silly Goose Syndrome.�

But how did a potentially dangerous corn strain ended up in something as basic as taco shells? Increasingly, GMO food incidents are forcing corporations like Monsanto and Taco Bell to defend their products.

At a hastily-called press conference after the release of the FDA report, a Taco Bell spokesman went on the offensive:

Taco Bell food products are perfectly safe. I�ve eaten lots of genetically engineered food, and I�m just fine. Sure, I�m a Chihuahua, and I have acquired the power of speech, but what poker-playing dog hasn�t?
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