http://www.bankrate.com/finance/auto/best-american-muscle-cars-of-all-time-1.aspx

some awesome nominations...

#1 - '71 Hemi Cuda.

The rest don't matter!

I didn't check your link, and I can't speak to 'best' in any technical terms, but I know what I like.

'69 Charger R/T

'67 GTO

'70 Stage 1

'70 442

'70 Torino GT

'66 Shelby Cobra

'68 Road Runner

'66 Chevelle SS

I hate to agree with you cuz Mopar is junk but.... Them old Barracudas with the big 429 Hemi sure put the power on the ground.
Corvettes are timeless except for the late 70's models that had those big assed smog pumps.
I say top of the line Vetts,no matter what year,gots plenty of muscle.

The one that started it all,
1964 GTO !!
I have one

A real Shelby Cobra with the AC body and 427 side oiler.


Denny.

This. Best car of all time.

5 or 6 others are a distant 2nd, anything else isnt even close.

426 Hemi not 429

I had a '70 Hemi Cuda

Doors rattled off the show room floor!

'71 used Carter thermo quads. Sh..T!
'70 used Holley quadrajets,dual line, dual pumps. Much better!

1970 Plymouth Superbird w/ 426 Hemi, One of the true classics.

70 Chevelle 454 SS.

Man, that is some classic, American made, testosterone pumpin', bad azzed, pink slip takin' steel there!

Cane,

Fixed your typo :-)

Glad this one was mentioned, LS1 car's are the king!

FIFY

I see the Ford Thunderbolt is absent from the list.

If I had to pick just Seven.

1) 65-66 AC Cobra 427
2) 69 yenko Camaro 427
3) 67-68 GT500 428
4) 69-70 Boss 429
5) 69-70 Hemi Cuda 426
6) 67 Stingray 427
7) 65-66 GT350 289

My first car was GTO Judge with the VOE option. Spent many a Friday and Saturday night making all windows rattle at the local Sonic. Sold it to buy a BOSS Mustang...

Oh the memories and the cars I wish I had kept... The Judge will always be on the top 10 list in my mind.

MOPARS RULE!!!

Just seven would be hard....

Any 66-68 440 or Hemi Mopar and of course the 70-73 E body cars. Even some of the 340 cars were bad azz, like the AAR Cuda.

Goats up until 67 were my favorite.

The 455 HO Trans Am was a monster, as was the GS Stage 1 Buick.

Big Block Camaros and Chevelles, 442's......even ford had a couple decent cars.

No way I could just pick seven.

Picking the biggest most powerful engine is not my criteria. The looks of the car, with big performance, not necessarily the biggest, is what is important to me. These were the hottest and most memorable cars to me back in high school:

1. 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 426 Hemi
2. 1966 Chevelle SS396
3. 1966 Chevy Nova SS396
4. 1964 GTO 389
5. 1968 Olds 442
6. 1968 Shelby Cobra GT500 428
7. 1969 Dodge Charger 440 Six Pack

Absolutely! The 302 Z28 Camaros have a level of cool that most can only dream of.

I ain't much into cars at all, but for some reason I like 442s. If I ever, it would be a 442. Instead my midlife crisis cost us 2 airboats....can do a lot more with the airboats anyway...

I like the big block corvettes of the 60's, not particular so long as it has a big block under the hood.

My wife has a 1967 Mercury Cougar GT (big block) which was Motor Trends "Car of the Year" that year.

#1) Boss 302 Mustang

#2) My 57 F100 True "Muscle Power"

66 AC 427 Cobra... Rest are rear view...

4 seats

69 Z28 302 or Yenko
68 Mustang Fastback
70 T/A Challenger 340
69 Charger 426
66 GTO Tripower 4 spd
68 Boss 302
70.5 Z28

Yeee Haaaa, here's a vote for the Goat. regardless of what they say, GTO started it all...

1987 Buick Grand National

I'm all in with your Ford truck! I saw a couple old 50's International trucks in 4x4 this weekend that had some nice lines.

Love GTOs, and the Chevelle SS, and...

I will say that there's been a camero and a corvette or two through the decades that'd be on my list.

The '14 Z28 looks to be an instant classic to me!

For me, let's see....

'65 Mustang - started the Pony Car revolution

'66 GTO - Gas, Tires, Oil

'70 Cuda

'69 Mustang Boss 302

'67 Shelby 427

'70 Plymouth Superbird - just way cool

'73 351 Mustang - smog killed performance, but like the body. Great car if desmogged and hot rodded.

'73 Firebird - see '73 Mustang

Interesting choice...I like it.

had one given to me 10yrs go ended up selling it for $1000

I have always been partial to the 1968-70 SS Chevelles...
with the top end 396, or the LS 6 454 in the 70 Model year...
especially love them, when someone has pulled the original engine and installed an LS 7 version of the 454...

but hate to see it when they came thru with a bench seat and an automatic on the steering column...

and then there is always the 67-69 Z 28s...

along with the 64 to 67 Vettes, with a big block...the penical being the 67 with the 427 Tri Power....got a thing for 3 two barrels for some reason...

as usual tho, Shrapnel shows why he is the Montana version of Chuck Norris as described by deFlave....

and Field Grades 57 Ford F100 is every bit as cool as many true muscle cars....

restored old trucks, especially in 4 x 4 guise are definitely 10 for 10 on the Cool Factor also...

although ANY muscle car is definitely COOOOOL!, I prefer the Chevys during those years....

They still haven't solved that issue.

While reading this thread I have several Beach Boys tunes circulating in my head.

ever see anyone actually fuel it with an after market fuel injection system? a fuel injected 426 Hemi...that ought to be an impressive performer...

also read about some of those 426 crate motors several times, and those can really pump out the horses...

Great car, especially the GNX, of which only 547 were made. My last Hagerty monthly report had the GNX version from '87 at $40-$81K value. ($37K was msrp) Pontiac put the same engine in the '89 TA 20-year anniversary pace car.

BTW... They forgot the best one.

1967 Ford Fairlane 427
As the kids say...Come Getchya Some of That!

I just can't find much to argue with on that list. Maybe go 69-70 Boss 302 in place of the GT 500, but only because I like cars that can turn too. Adds variety to the list...

Looking through this thread, what comes to mind is that there are a lot more than 7 great muscle cars. I had a '65 GT Mustang (289 K-Code) and a plain '69 Fastback with a 351.

My top muscle cars ...

1) 1970 Hemi Cuda

2) 1970 Chevelle SS LS6

3) 427 Covette ... 1967 ?

From there it's gets tough to put in order.

I really like the tri power GTOs and a 1970 Camaro Z28 LT1 350 was a bad azz small block but I liked the looks of 69 Z28 better. The 1970 AAR 340 six pack Cuda was also wicked small block.

One car that hasn't been metioned and just for the cool factor alone is a 1976 455 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am. It wasn't a go fast king but a T top in black with the gold firebird on the hood was very cool.

I'm getting parts together to build 572 hemi stroker that will have electronic fuel injection, and make 1000hp on pump gas.

'63 Impala SS 409
My parents had one, my Mom was caught going well north of 120. So says my Dad and her brothers. She denies it to this day!

Any Goat makes my list. Along with either one of Northern Dave's rebuild cars!!!!

did i miss something??? no Monte Carlo?? hell its the only one still being made ! The Monte is a Chevelle in a BOW TIE

Of the one's I've owned , the 68 , 440 R/T Charger was the best as a daily driver ( once you gave the Carb a lot more air to breathe ) and would go head-to-head with the Hemi up to about 80 mph . I also liked the Style best . Had too much trouble with a 66 , 427 Vette . The 64 Tri-power GTO was slick until you tried to stop ( that could be improved with Ceramic-Metallic Linings that did'nt work so good in Cold weather ) and the same goes for a Ram-Air 350 GS Buick ...a real sleeper ! Hmmmm .... just remembered an 84 Camaro HO V8 that ties the Charger for Style IMO . It's nice to think of the good old days ! Nowadays , it looks like most of the Designers went to the same Schools .

Cracka' you crazy.

You gotta love it every time shrapnel posts a picture of his. Maybe I can get a ride if I'm ever in his locale...

I feel fortunate that my first car was a GTO- a '65 tri-power convertible (it needed work, but I was eager). I also was fortunate that I scored a job for a short time with PMD at a very young age in their marketing/program group. I've had a bunch of Pontiacs in my life, including a couple of Judges. Hardly needs saying that I wish I still had some of those older muscle cars I took for granted way back when.
I'm restoring a '69 GTO convertible now, and hope to add an SJ Grand Prix in the near future.

and will scare women and children. I love it!!

Some great choices, but I find it hard to believe that no one has mentioned my favorite.........66 and 67 Nova SS with the 350 horse 327 and a muncie 4 speed.
My daily driver now is a fully restored '63 Nova Wagon with a transplanted 250 C.I. Inline under the hood, and a Powerglide trans. Blood red body with an off-white top.

The 351 Cleveland would get it if built. I do like the body style, but not as much as I like the '69 Boss!

if i had a chevy it would be a 67 nova.

Both '70 and '71 Street Hemis used AFBs.

IIRC the Thermoquad debuted on the 340, in either '71 or '72.

And no such thing as a Holley Quadrajet. That's a Rochester, a GM carb (generally).

I stand corrected. I must have had Ford on the brain... God help me.

Lots of great cars listed from a great era for cars.

To me, the best one is the one sitting in my garage. Not the fastest or biggest motor, but I've owned it since 1978.
Hear guys always saying, "I used to have one of those", or "Wish I kept mine".
Been thru divorces and lean times and always resisted the urge to sell.
I don't take it out much and it's almost time for another do-over, but I'm glad I kept it.
Wish I had kept my '64 Goat or 302 Maverick Grabber, LOL.

My 1970 340 Cuda had an AVS carb that IIRC was a Thermoquad. It had small primaries and huge secondaries.

I ended up replacing with an aftermarket Carter AFB.

I miss my 66 toronado.
But it did cost 6 bucks in gas just to pull out of the driveway.
I still have my 73 beetle though.

I don't know exactly when they started but in 1956 when I graduated college I bought the hottest thing I could find and it turned out to be the first in the state. It was a Plymouth Fury with a humping big hemi. They were actually chopped and channeled Furies and you could have any color you wanted as long as it was white with the full length embossed gold panel down each side. It had push button transmission and would run circles around my buddies new 56 Vette. In 1971 after a transfer I bought a fire breathing red hemi Barracuda that I really liked to drive to the races in Mid-Ohio. Marriage and family pulled me out of that into a 4 door Chevy Malibu. When I moved to Arizona I bought a 'western' muscle car - a 440 Magnum Dodge Charger. It would go straight up a mountain while idling. I always liked performance cars whatever they were called.

Lots of great cars here.

Surprised nobody said dual quad 409/4 speed 1962 impala super sport?


I like my 69 road runner just fine





but there are a LOT of muscle cars out there and it would be very hard to rank them. (for me, cause I really like most of em)

64 goat
67 firebird 400
My brother bought a 70 F150 ranger with a 390 some guy built up for local track racing... in 74 soon after chevy put the 454 in their trucks... saturday nights we would go to town and 'put them to shame on main'... LOL

We couldn't afford to keep tires on the truck, kept burning them off.

edit, I'm sure it was a f100 not 150...

Kent

While the old muscle cars were cool,for as much power as they made,they really weren't all that fast.

A late model V6 Toyota Camry or Honda Accord will be neck and neck with any of the old muscle in the 1/4 mile.

bump 4 later.
tmm

Those Nova's were amazing!

70/71 Hemi Cuda

Ford GT 40 is an ass stomper and name taker.

Gunner

AMC Gremlin

Yea, but the old irons are more funner.
Crappy tires, brakes, steering, carburetors.
No computers and a gaggle of hoses.
A thumping Big Block or a screaming small block.
Sitting at a light with the car shaking from the bumpy cam.
Good Times!

I learned to drive stick in one of those, in a farm field . That one had the 383.

The 66 and 67 Chevy IIs with the L-79 option.
327-350HP motor and 4 speed trans.
Novas didn't appear til 68.
I sold my L-79 several yrs ago.
Went really fast, didn't stop very well and would not corner at all.

Coach

I'm guessing you are well under 40 years old and have never ridden in one of those old slow muscle cars...

1/4 miles start at 23:00

All show ... no go.

What no 69 AMX? It could run with the best of them

That's the best pic yet.

It captures every bit of awesomeness.

Thanks buddy!!!

Oh she ain't too bad, fish.


383 magnum, 4 speed, 3.23 sure grip.

66 Chevelle SS and the 65 GTO do it for me.

Check the video

Kamo said 70 Torino GT, that's funny cause that was my first car. I sure miss it.

If I built one today I'd go with a stroked sbf, possibly as much as 460 cubes. A late model 5 or 6 spd trans, 4 link/coil over 9" rear. Upgraded front suspension, low stance, 17" wheels, big disk brakes front and back....

Paint it black.

Very hard to rank them.

Cars I drove in my younger days included:

'65 GOAT (389)

'69 Chevelle (396)

'72 Nova SS (454)

'77 Trans Am (403 Windsor)

Plus my parents always drove Mopars of some sort. He11, at one time, both of my Grandmas had cars with 440s in them.........

3.23 ...

One of my high school buddies bought a 1970 Ford Torino 429 SCJ (Super Cobra Jet), 4.11 gears, shaker hood scoop, factory double pumper Holley 4 Barrel, for $1400.00 and never realized WTF he had.

He drove for for a month thinking it was only a 3 speed. He never found 1st.

I tried to tell him how special what he had was ... but he never listened.

Oh it ain't that bad. I tell ya what, I sure like it at cruise speeds.

Buddy of mine tried to slingshot me on a cruise run last summer with a blown sbc 4.11's in a short box C-10. I saw him comin hard in my rear view mirror. I hammered it and sure enough he ran out of gears and RPMs and I left him back there, in the passing lane.... Fading further and further behind me until he was just all by himself in the wrong lane, all strung out and maxed out at not much more than 100 mph. Lol!

And it ain't terrible off the line, not embarrassingly so anyways.

WOW - thanks - some great cars noted and exclaimed on this thread. Always thought that the mid 60s GMs were the best overall - muscles and looks combined. Not many mentions here of this one - have had it since 1971 - it sure ate a lot of wannabees. Maybe still can.

My dad had a TVR Griffith. He sold it before I was old enough to drive and probably a good thing too. It looked like hell when he first bought the car and it garnered many a confused look, until he hit the gas. I have fond memories of driving with him through Montana when there was no day time speed limit. The acceleration was very impressive and for a little kid it was like a rocket ship.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmzgPzS47ss

427?

100 ain't schit.

Nail it at 85 + and leave whoever follows at 110 in the dust and then you're talkin'.

Next step is beyond 125.

Gunner,
I was wondering if anyone would mention the mighty Ford GT-40. Photo from 24 Hours of Le Mans in 1966:



And in Gulf colors:

I doubt it, a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry would beat it...

No love for the Chrysler 300-letter series?

Interesting comment - too bad we can't try that at 440 yards.

You must not have read an earlier post...

I've had Benzs, Audis, Volvos, Jeeps, you-name-it, but my 87 Buick Grand National was the all time favorite.

I loved telling people that I drove a Buick. Most thought that was a boring choice. Few followed up to find out that in 1987, it was the fastest production car after a special edition Porsche. No joke, my kids were afraid to drive it.

Almost forgot to mention, the informal motto of the brand was "We brake for Corvettes."

Ya what about the T-Bolt its the fastest of all. Plus its a Ford so its not junk...

flip the last 6 upside down on that Chevelle and I'm riding with Roger


muscle cars, tweren't nothing like 'em, burned up some gas and rubber in them

Since we are being correct, weren't quadrajets made by Rochester? So were they using Holley's or quadrajets?

18436572

The 1987 Grand National was fast for its time. With 355 pound-feet of torque and 245 horsepower from a turbo V6. Here is an article:

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/classic/r...l_first_drive/viewall.html#ixzz2mO2e2oNk

I think current cars are much better, but not as nostalgic, at least until current youngsters get old. My current ride is faster than most 60/70 muscle cars. It is a 2013 Audi S6 with V8 twin turbo and all wheel drive. It has 420 hp, 406 lb-ft torque from 1500 rpm to around 5400 rpm. Car & Driver ran 0-60 in 3.7 seconds, 1/4 mile in low 12's and top speed claimed around 190 without the electronic limiting at 155. There are faster. I am looking at the Nissan GTR, 0-60 in 2.9 seconds... But 60s/70s muscle cars are cool, especially the Ford GT-40!

Here is the Audi:

How can you rank them? They were all cool in their own way. Some had the look, some had the stance, some had the big cool engines, but they all had that special sound.

I was two years old in 1965 when my father pulled up in his brand new factory lightweight 1965 Coronet 426 hemi from Mr. Norm's Grand Spaulding Dodge in Chicago, Illinois.

I remember hiding under the picnic table when he trottled the factory-built race car.
Without question the factory lightweight Dodge hemi was the hottest of all hot rods ever made by the big three.
The car would be worth a fortune now...

1969 Chevrolet Camaro RS/SS 396

2013 Accord is suppose to have it's best 1/4 mile time at 14.2, exactly what a stock 1965, 327, 300HP Chevelle I had would run through the lights with no mods outside of air cleaner removal.

I have to say that the styling on modern muscle cars is missing except for a few.....Dodge Viper, Shelby Mustang, Dodge Challenger, C7 Corvette....?

yeah, that in a green or blue.... not Hugger Orange...

seeing that 61 Chevy in the background...the old man bought an Impala new in Jan 61, with a 409 with the 2 4 Barrels on it..

sold it in August 63 when he was transferred to England, figured it wouldn't be a good car to have in Europe with the narrow road and the price of fuel off base....

sold it and we ended up getting a 63 VW Squareback with right hand drive to replace it...

even as an 11 yr old, I was pretty disappointed....

it was nothing for that old 409 to get up to 90 mph back in those days, which was pretty fast and scarey on those narrow 2 lane US Routes there in Virginia...

not a muscle car, but that old 409 was pretty darn cool...

That made me smile like heck.

Lol. The T-Bolt ain't exactly a street car. though I'd give it a run.

Well it was kinda street legal. Funny how folks remember the hemi when Ford's 427 was king. The T-Bolt and Cobra were awesome.

Ford Thunderbolt

1969 Charger R/T 440 six pack

1971 Hemi Cuda 426

1970 Mustang Boss 302

1970 Mustang Boss 429

1970 Chevelle SS 454 LS-6

1969 Camaro COPO ZL1 427

1967 Shelby Mustang GT-500 427

Well, a lot of them would rather forget it. They remember those round Ford T-bolt tail lights though.

As far as looks, it doesn't get much better, IMO. That is beautiful!

Good Point, those tail lights were unique...

LOL..I was thinking the same thing! Too much Fast & Furious or whatever that show is called that made kids now days think they can put a big ugly can on their little rice burner and "go fast"

A lot of those � mile times you see for a stock car was misleading, or at least did not represent the potential that the car had. The narrow hard rubber tires that came on these cars sucked at best.

I have an old article at home that shows were someone took a stock 69 Camaro 427 added 9� slicks, headers, and a 4:56 rearend gear and ran 11:90�s. This was in the 60�s.

Do that in an almost stock Camry.

+1

My dream car is 69 GTO Judge! 400 Ram Air, 4 speed....ooooh I got wood just thinking about it!

Good Point, click my link on the Ford Thunderbolt above and look at the ET's when it was introduced in 64 and look at the current times for a stock T-Bolt on modern slicks. Here is the quote...

"However, these modifications resulted in a car which, as tested with a four-speed transmission at Lions Drag Strip in November 1963, ran 11.61 seconds at 124.8 MPH (200.8 km/h). Best 1/4-mile pr.01.01.2011 for an authentic Thunderbolt on today's slicks are 9.23secs/243kmh

Ray Paquet set SS/A record of 8.55 @ 154 mph October 2013 NHRA Indy Nationals"

One of my great-uncles helped build the 1950s Buick Wildcat concept cars. Would have been an awesome car had Chevy not nixed it.

1954 Wildcat II:



1953 Wildcat found and restored!
1953 Buick Wildcat

Without reading more than the first page and not reading the link, my list:

1. 69 Mustang Mach One 428
2. 63 Corvette 327
3. 69 Z-28 with 302
4. 67 GTO 389
5. 54 Ford Thunderbolt 427
6. 69 Chevelle SS 396
7. 69 Plymouth Roadrunner 383

There are a lot of cars/engines from 68-70 that should be on the list.

If it's really a "stock" 427 Camaro set up , then it pretty much has to be either an L-88 or ZL-1 engine. Either of those had enough compression (12 or 12.5 to 1) to require leaded gas, either racing fuel or high octane avgas. They also had long duration cams with a lot of overlap which produced little idle vacuum and weren't much for low end torque. A 4.56 rear gear makes daily driving interesting as well. Never mind getting ticketed all the time for slicks on a roadway.

Using that to represent a "1969 muscle car" compared to a nearly stock anything, old or new, doesn't mean much.

The point was that these cars had a lot more potential than a 14 sec quarter that was shown in the old magazines or documentaries.

The factory tires sucked, and was the main reason for the slow quarter mile times from the factory.

Let�s say you took one of the big block muscle cars and put street legal Mickey Thompson street slicks, and a 3:73 to 4:10 gear and you could easily run low 13�s or high 12�s and be very streetable.

This is just what we did when I was in my late teen�s.

That's the comparison to make.

I read that link LBP:

a 427 Rated at 425 HP to satisfy the insurance industry and a few other complainers.... but rated the engine more along the lines of 600 plus HP....

In something that probably weighs in as much as ( or as little as) a Camry... that is a lot of HP!

there is a lot of fine cars made out there these days, that can rival a lot of the muscle car era....

but just like Harleys today, vs Japanese Motorcycles...

the sophisticated stuff of today, don't have the pure thunder put out by the American Iron of days gone by....

also heard this from a Regional Manager one night sharing a dinner table at a Restaurant....

of all of the Harleys that are picked up at the factory on a tourist delivery program, where Harley arranges to ship the bikes back to the buyers home country after they have toured the USA with them... over 50% of them were shipped back to Japan....

the rest of the world, still loves good old American "Thunder"....

always thought when I see pics of those...

wonder what the inner fender paint job would look like after 10,000 miles of every day street driving?

half the paint would be long gone...

and would certainly be a rust bucket come the first winter...

but it would sure look cool up to that point...

1970 Chevelle SS 454 LS6

right behind ya on that one... in green or blue.. white strips and black interior, 4 speed and buckets...

I hate to see those with bench seats and an automatic on the column....

Here's one you probably didn't see coming: '69 Buick Skylark Grand Sport.

That was the car that taught me the value of tires...

There use to be an old timer around here that had a '70 GSX he bought off the floor of the New York auto show. Those Stage-1 cars were torque monsters.

That 1954 Wildcat II was badass. Almost kinda looks like an old Aston Martin crossed with a T-bird...........

In my somewhat misspent youth I had a chance to get a 66 (I think) satellite with the 426 hemi/4 speed for less than $2000, but didn't! Another should have/could have/didn't.
Had a 70 Torino Cobra with the 429CJ, pretty nice car but a bit heavy. Also had a 71 Ranchero GT with the 429CJ and 3.25 gears. A bit slow to get moving but I had it up over 135 mph one sunny afternoon! Then I discovered street bikes!!
Buddy has a 70 1/2 Z28 warmed over, that was a really nice car and handled well to boot. Quickest 1/4 miler I ever rode in was a 68 Nova with a 425hp/396 with a little work and 4.56s, that thing pulled hard in all 4 gears! If I had one to get now (aside from the vettes) I'd probably choose a 69 Camaro, either the ss/rs 396, or perhaps the z/28.

Had a '69 Barracuda "Cuda 340" that was fun to tool around in. Looked like this but with mags instead of these factory stock wheels.




What's funny looking at all of these old muscle cars is that my little 1970 Honda CB350 would beat all but the fastest of them from stoplight to stoplight. Power to weight, baby...

Show me where I'm wrong. Your mighty '65 GTO ran 0-60 @ 6.1 seconds. 1/4 mile in 14.7 at 99mph.

http://www.musclecarfacts.com/pontiac-gto/72-1965-gto

A 2012 V6 Camry runs 0-60 in 5.8 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 14.1 at 100 mph.

Must suck to lose a 1/4 mile run to a stock 4 door family sedan...lol

FYI

Leaded gas isn't for high compression.....it is for the valve seats. It acts as somewhat of a "cushion" when the valve hits the head. Newer engines have hardened seats already installed, hence the use of unleaded gas. Older heads can be re-machined, such as in my 1967 Camaro; which also has 12.5:1 compression, in a 327, fuelie head engine.

How about the first "real" muscle car:
1957 Corvette 283 FI


1963 Impala Z-11 427
1965 Sting Ray 327/375 FI
1968 Camaro Z-28 302, factory Dual Quads & headers
1969 Baldwin Motion Phase III Camaro and Corvettes
1967 Sting Ray L-88 427
1970 LS-6 Chevelle 454
1966 Nova SS396

Yes, I am a Bowtie Man......

You bet Buddy, the old ones were true muscle, damn near bought a new one back in '02, a 'quarter' is a bit to much for a toy though.

Gunner

Hmmm......interesting. Almost ALL of you don't have adequate "seat time" to make a TRUE guess.

In no particular order...

1967 Nova with 327/350 hp
69 or 70 Road Runner with 440 Mag Six Pack (the hemis actually don't do as well in street trim)
1969 ZL1 Corvette
1970 Buick GSX 455 Stage 1
1965/6/7 Olds 442 with 400
1970 Olds 442 455 W31 option
1969/70 Dodge Dart GTS with 383 or 440 (440 is a BIT much on the street!!!) Make mine an automatic and 3.91 sure grip please

I know a Ford did not make my list. But, would swap a 63 1/2 Galaxy with Medium or Hi Riser 427 for the 69 ZL1 Vette without hesitation.

I have seat time in all but two that I mentioned (69 ZL1 or 63 1/2 Galaxy.

The Buick does not feel fast, until you are lined up with something that you have driven or have time slips from. A little work, some sticky tires and this is a LOW 13 second car or high 12 second car.

The little Nova flat gets with it. Nothing like listening to a high winding small block getting it done.

65/6/7 Olds 442 were always overlooked, because they look like Dad or Grandpa's car. I have a 65 Holiday Club Coupe with 442 option that was purchased with a hurt engine. Of coincidence, the 400 and 425 blocks of this vintage, share the same block. Mine will, technically be a 425 engine when finished (370 hp 400 ci factory rating).

70 Olds 442 W31 - Big Block with an aluminum intake that weighs the same as a SBC? What is not to like. Again, some tires in the rear...and GO!

Road Runner - again, don't really feel like they are always "getting it done", add some tires, proper gears..and they do rather well. Easy 425 hp with a set of headers & jet change...if not more.

Dart GTS - if you ever want a WILD ride....THESE are for you. The 383 is not slouch - add tires (and a drive shaft loop!!!). 440 Magnum in one of these....well...you REALLY can't grab the $100 bill off of the dash.

Sorry but that just isn't true. Even though they were great bikes (I had one) they would cross the 1/4-mile finish line seconds behind the muscle cars. Not even close.

FYI, tetraethyl lead is in fact an excellent octane booster.

Sackett,

I won't even begin to claim to be all that knowledgable about the unique and first muscle cars, but I found this one kind of cool. It's one of the first BB Chevys and they only made about 200 the first year. I'm rebuilding a clone of it w/a 396 and Muncie 4-speed.

Here's a link: http://www.z16chevelle.com

And here's a picture.



Bob

Whats wrong with the bench seat and auto on the column? It allowed your girl to snuggle right up next to you and left your right arm free to curl it around her neck and dangle down around her . . .

You said neck and neck against any of the old muscle. You want to bet a bowl of rice on that? It must suck to be so inexperienced. You are under 40 aren't you.

It doesn't matter, let's see how my slow GTO looks against your Camry in about another 50 years and who will notice that jap POS.

Besides, my dad can beat up your dad.

Greatest American Muscle Car of all time; 1965 Mustang GT350 (although I prefer the '66). It's one of the only American muscle cars that will corner decently.

#2 is the Corvette, and I give my vote to the '63 split window.
#3 is the '71 Cuda
#4 is the current Ford GT40
#5 is The Goat
#6 is the Shelby Cobra
#7 is the Dodge Viper

FWIW . . . my first experience (and ride in the back seat) in a true American muscle car was my uncle's 1962 Chevy Biscayne 409. He was an engineer with Phillips 66 in New Mexico (refinery near Artesia) and my cousin and my older brother took us out for a ride in his 409. We were on one of those obscure, out in the middle of nowhere black top roads in SE NM and my cousin saw some crows on the road eating some road kill, about a half mile ahead. He hit the long black one on the right and I was thrown back in my seat as that 409 wound up and rocketed down that long straight away, trying to hit those crows. (They always fly away right at the last second, right?) I was hooked on muscle at the young age of 12.

That's why I said "stoplight to stoplight" and not "through the 1/4 mile". Yes, after about 200 yards the higher top end speed of the cars would let them start to pull away, but racing two blocks from a standing start to the next stoplight that little Honda could beat or stay neck and neck with most all the Roadrunners, Camaros and Mustangs I came across in S. Florida at that time.

A good driver with a good car who knew how to keep the tires from spinning and get his horsepower to the ground could beat it but a lot of them (most of them) would burn rubber and waste time while I pulled ahead. You also had to keep the motorcycle above 6000 RPM where the power band really took off, but if you knew how to get a good start that little 36 HP engine with 5 gears on a light frame would hold its own against 350 HP in a heavy car.

Just as a FWIW, I remember reading an article of the fastest three bikes of that time. The Kawaski 500 had the fastest 1/4 mile since it took off like a bullet. A Norton Commando 750 had the highest top end speed but slowest time through the 1/4 and a Honda 750 was right between them both - second fastest time and second highest top end. This is IIRC but having a Norton Commando at the time it was interesting to read. That Norton had an almost flat power curve, (again IIRC) it started at 42 ft/lbs at around 2000 rpm and went to 47 ft/lbs at top RPM which was only around 6500*.

The little Honda 350 was a pig under 6000 rpm. It would go, but when that tach needle hit the magic 6000 mark you could feel it almost pull out from under you as it came into its real power range.


*Wikipedia is not to be trusted. They list the 750 Commando's top speed as 115 mph. I know for a fact it will do 130 on a stretch of Florida Turnpike before its rider chickened out...

Would it be more accurate to say "... its speedo indicated 130 on a stretch ..."?

OO,

Man, that's cool. I still remember digging around in the attic of my dad's shop and finding a pair of chrome valve covers stamped 409 on them....back in the day my friend!

Bob

No wonder Chrysler started crying and got the 427 banned. By the way this is the pass mentioned in the Wikipedia article I posted. 9.23 for a stock T-Bolt on modern slicks.

Could be.

I got it second hand and the previous owner had replaced the stock exhaust pipes with Dunstalls which greatly improved performance. I put the stock "reverse cone" pipes back on it (which were included in the deal) and you could feel performance drag, it wouldn't accelerate nearly as promptly. It really needed those Dunstalls.

Also, there were at least a couple of options for the rear chain sprocket back then and I'm not sure if he didn't replace the stock one with a smaller one, giving slightly slower acceleration but higher rear wheel RPM's at the top end engine RPM level, i.e. higher top speed. It wasn't a drag racer by any means but with that flat power curve would accelerate very smoothly through all four gears and get to going really fast before you realized it. Got stopped by a cop doing 70 in a 35 MPH zone and honestly didn't realize I had gotten up to that speed.

It was a 1970 model based on 1940's technology but it had Class with a capital C. It handled better than any bike I've ever ridden and cornered like it was on rails, had crappy electronics and an almost useless rear brake. With all that torque you had to adjust the chain tension about every three days, and the ride was accompanied by the smell of hot oil and gears and widgets and what-nots all thrashing around down there. For a 19 year old kid it was great!

They were badass, pure and simple. Actually, checking back, mine was a '70 Gran Sport 455. Not so great in corners, but it would flat pin people to their seat backs for quite a distance if I so desired. Got more than a few speeding tickets in that one... and burned out more than a few tires. Young and dumb and all that...

Hits the head - really? I did know that lead additive does help avoid wear, but darn - I always thought that tetraethyl lead was an ignition control compound to deal with pre-ignition issues in higher compression situations - thought it raised the octane rating. Like - in Sunoco 260.

ahhhh, brings back some memories.

I hesitate to rank and only 10?

In no particular order,

68 to 70 Dodge Coronet, two door, 440 4 speed. A guy I knew had one of these. Thing was a sleeper and a rocket.

67 -68 Firebird, 400 4 speed.

65 GTO, I liked the side by side headlights better...

68 - 71 Nova, 327, 350, or 396!

70 Cuda Hemi, or 440 tripower. Drove a 440 tripower for a while. Most power I ever drove.

68 Galaxie 500 or Fairlaine with a 390 or 427

68 Beaumont 396

64 - 67 Vette roadster, big or small block, top down, the Muncie M22 is whining, the exhaust is burbling - doesn't get much better on a nice day.


I know some of the new cars can really go but there was something about that old iron.

I'm not buying that a Camry would shoulder out a Goat.

After the Honda CL-350 and a Kawasaki Bighorn 350 and a bunch of dirt bikes, I wanted a bigger, faster road bike. I test rode the Kawasaki 500 triple and it scared me when it suddenly came on the pipe and unexpectedly wheelied. Instead I got a used 1970 Honda 750-4, an awesome good bike.

For awhile, in my younger days, I had a lot of powerful cars (300+hp):
1957 Mercury Turnpike Cruiser (310 hp/368)
1959 Chrysler New Yorker convertible (350 hp/413)
1961 Cadillac convertible (304 hp/389)
1962 Impala ht (300 hp/327 3-speed)
1963 Pontiac Catalina/Ventura (303 hp/389 4-speed)
1964 Impala wagon (300 hp/327 4-speed)
1967 Riviera Gran Sport (what a car! 360 hp/430))
1970 Pontiac Formula 400 (335 hp/389)
1972 Eldorado convertible (365 hp/500)

Somebody mentioned "seat time"

The B-body mopars of 68, 69, 70 (GTX, Sport satellite, Road runner, Coronet, Super bee, Charger) with 383 magnum and an auto trans, good street cars.

Plenty of 383 and 440 4 speed cars fell prey to the 383 magnum and an automatic.

It was a job beating that combo on a quarter mile of county road.

Armed with a 383M/727 auto trans B body, a dork with a pocket protector and a pair of birth control glasses could take lunch money from a gear head in the same car with a 440/4 speed.

It happened plenty of times.

383= big block that revs like a small block.

The 383 magnum with the 727 behind it = "user friendly"

lol!

Smash the skinny peddle, steer the car.


If a better car beat you, it's because the dude could drive.

How about those 426 Max Wedges? You know, the ones with the race engines already installed in them?

what i want my polara to look like. [video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_J7DmCDeeTk[/video]

That stance is perfect.

Are you going to roll the rear fender lips like that?

maybe, but i am going to split the wheel well's and move the inner side out to the frame, will give me 3 more inches of room. its going to get blasted ad primed after Xmas. one of my new duck hunting buddy's owns a paint/body shop.

The leaf springs don't confine you as much as the inner well?

I suppose you are going link/coil overs?

going to run caltrac bars and springs http://www.calvertracing.com/index.php i'll move the spring mounts inline with the frame or on the inside of the frame.


dart wheel well widened

Tie for first - 1964 Chevy Corvette with 427 and 1966 AC Cobra with the 427 engine.

The 427 showed up in 1966.

I don't think the 427 was available in a 64 Vette... don't think that was available from the factory until 67.... could be wrong tho, no expert...

any of you Vette experts know if the 409 ever found its way into a Vette straight from the factory?

Brother in law in MN has one of those.... but the 426 in it was not straight from the factory with one...I think it was equipped with a 413 with 2 4V's on it....

Chev 427 came out in 1965...........there were some 409's left over that made their way into a few hundred 65's. A friend has a 65 Impala convertible with a 409 and four speed. Has every power option offered. Pretty rare car.

I stand corrected..........per Wikipedia:

A special 427 cubic inches (7.00 L) version of the 409 engine was used in the 1963 Chevrolet Impala Sport Coupe ordered under Chevrolet Regular Production Option (RPO) Z11.[2] This was a special package created for drag racers, including aluminum engine and body parts and a cowl-induction air intake system, along with the 427 engine. The aluminum body parts were fabricated in Flint, MI at the facility now known as GM Flint Metal Center.[3] Unlike the later second generation 427, it was based on the W-series 409 engine, but with a longer 3.95 in (100 mm) stroke. A high-rise two piece aluminum intake manifold and dual Carter AFB carbs fed a 13.5:1 compression ratio to produce an under-rated 430 hp (320 kW) and 575 lb�ft (780 N�m). 50 RPO Z11 cars were produced at the Flint plant. GM Documents exist that show 50 Z11 engines were built at the GM Tonawanda engine plant for auto production, and 20 partial engines were made for replacement/over the counter use. No evidence from GM has been found that show 57 cars were built.

I believe it's the 396 for 1965.

That's a different 427 which didn't go into the Corvette.

Correct you are.......it is referred to as the mystery motor. Johnny Rutherford and Junior Johnson drove them at the Daytona race in 1963.

One word: Fiberglass

I know 65 was the only year that you could order a 396 in a Vette......

Weld ya a 'anti roll device' off the rearend to Roger, helps contain a lot of power, bucking about on the street.

Gunner

Z11 is still the W headed motor. Considered to be the Mark II big block. BUT, there were some Mark III big block heads that found their way on the 409 block, that was punched/stroked to 427 CI or bigger.

Remember....it was the 60's....if you were cheatin' (or bending the rules), you were not winning.

Ole Roger being a mopar guy, is likely a pinion snubber fan.

Of course that's what the caltracs are for too so... maybe not.

I had a 65 Impala SS with the higher HP option (375HP if I recall correctly). I drove it up 140+MPH twice. The front end started to lift off the ground and it was difficult keeping in two lanes. There were a few 1965 Chevelles the factory made with 396's. I recall 8, but it could be as much as a dozen. I heard That Dan Blocker (Bonanza) had one of these, I never heard where the others went.
I drove my car Interstate 29 from Kansas City to SD when I was in the Marines (The interstate wasn't complete in MO at the time but it was in Iowa and SD). I passed a foreign sports car, I was doing over 120MPH at the time. He passed me shortly thereafter like I was sitting still. Some miles later, I see a lot of red lights in the distance. There were four Iowa HP cars and the foreign sports car at the side of the road (near Council Bluffs). I waved and smiled at the driver of the car that saved me a very expensive ticket.

LOL, 10-4 on the snubbers, have squashed a few of those flat over the years .

The anti roll bar kits are sold by S&W racing and keep the rearend square with the body [frame/subframe] of the car, STX wants to run 1000 HP on pump gas, he gonna need an anti-twist em up device.

Gunner

Here's a pic of a pic of one of mine...'68 Dodge Dart GTS

340 w/4 speed...rag top no less...also had a '70 Cuda the same

time frame of my life....440 w/6 pack....this was in 1971..

both gone.......

He's going to need a lot more than that. I can't wait to see/hear that thing.

Nice old MOPARS Tikka, had a few I want back too.

Gunner

LMAO T, 1000 elelphant headed HP will twist up a factory car like a barber pole.

Hey, ya know what MOPAR stands for?

Gunner

it well get gussets, frame connecters and a cage.

That'll work, and I'd back half it with ladder bars too if not running a full tube chassis with STRANGE strut fronts and rack and pinion steering.

Gunner

santhuff struts if i went that route, he's 30 miles from here we know him. http://www.santhuffshocks.com/

this is what i'm going to go with for the front suspension. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-Indep...ries&hash=item2c689bf51c&vxp=mtr

10-4 on the local, and coilovers and a rack will get it done too, can't wait till ya get her finished.

Gunner

think i'll make some progress this coming yr.

Good deal, still on the lookout for some 'GOOD' parts.

Gunner

MOPAR= Wish we had a Ford but all we got was this car instead?

Am I close?

No

MOPAR: Move Over, Power Approaching Rapidly

Gunner

Good story. I remember working in a gas station in Oklahoma City and was putting gas in a purple 1970 426 Hemi Road Runner and a Porche 911. Both drivers jawed back and forth a bit, and before you know it they had pulled out onto the four-lane street in front of the station and lined up for a drag race. I saw them take off but could not see who won. I could certainly see the smoke from the hemi and heard him clearly as he shifted through the gear, out of sight.

just won me an intake.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261345529859?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Last summer when I was headed back east, I stopped to get fuel in Des Moines IA, and in pulled this immaculate 1969 SS Impala with a 427 under the hood.... there was an old black guy driving it...

I went over and complimented him on it, and he told me he bought it brand new when he returned from Vietnam in 1969... and has been its only owner... and it was all original...

The 427 had a pair of 4 barrels on top, and headers installed....

I asked him if he ever got it out and stood on the gas pedal...

was funny how he answered as he had a very laid back personality...
" oh I gets on it when da poleese ain't a lookin real close... and if ones does get after me... I gets it out here on I 80 and deys can't catch me... but I think most of the polesse around here really likes dis old gal as much as I do's..."

Dark Blue, mags all the way around, bucket sets ( black) center shift automatic.... this thing was PERFECT!

when he started it up, it had a wonderful low grumble to it as it idled....

Re: Chevelle 396

Friend of mine in high school had one about a week. He wrapped it around a light pole, he survived, Chevelle didn't.

Had no idea so few were made.

This one belongs to my best friend, 427 aluminum block, Shelby Cobra SC, 600 horsepower, Las Vegas built, and Carroll Shelby signed car... thing is kinda nuts to drive:

Brad your going to get Mopar and Chevy fans upset by bring up the baddest engine ever, Ford's mighty 427. Note my post at the top of page 15 with the Ford Thunderbolt...

Ha!

It's a badd-azz:

1966 Chevy Nova (lighter, boxy Nova 100 body, not the SS)
-327ci / 350hp
-Muncie M-21 4 speed
-373 gear

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=J65FxT8q_W4[/video]

I guess these had to be line production cars. No Shelby. Which was the elemental one, stripped down to its purest form.

Wow shrapnel, very nice indeed.

Awesome car.

Couple more:

Here is a chevy that might beat the Cobra...

http://autopaintanddesign.com/video/index.html

Was that a compliment?

69 dart a buddy and i built about 12 yrs ago.

Bored 440ci to a 452ci?

Gunner

That car is beautiful.

stroked to 498

10-4, bored and stroked foe foty.

Gunner

I always heard it was

Move Over People Are Racing

That Dart tracks arrow-straight during and after launch. You guys must have done your homework on setting up that suspension.

ladder bars and coil overs on the back, on the front it still had the factory K member but modified to use a rack and pinion and allow the use of a millodon dragster pan.

Very funny LRoy and T.

Gunner

I've known more than a few Plymouths that could (should) have had that on the hood (grille).
(backwards to be read in rear view mirror)
Two ways to look at it!