My parents gave me their old Honda FR500 tiller. It has been sitting idle for a few years and was seized up. After over a month soaking in kerosene, I gave it a try last night and got it loose. Am I correct in thinking that the rings are probably still stuck, and will soaking longer before starting it and burning off the kerosene help, or should I just try to get it started.
The engine is pretty worn out, but my garden is only about 6X16, so as long as I can get it started and get enough power to run it, I'll leave it alone. I bought a chinese 6.75 torque engine NIB at a garage sale last summer for $35 that I could put on it, but I'd like to keep it Honda if I can.
fabricate.... kroil oil for sure. And then weld up a spark plug base thread to an air hose chuck, that way you fill cylinder(s) with a good amount of kroil and then put maybe 30-40 psi on the cylinder for a time period. I forget how long we used to do it, maybe an hour give or take, and then try to turn it. Very many times the kroil being forced into places, will free it all up and it'll run just fine with no other work.
Have freed more than a few tractor engines like this over the yeras.
I see you are already freed though... but kroil in the ring grooves would be a really helpful thing in totally freeing them. IMHO
Get rid of the kerosene and throw some Seafoam in the cylinder and let it soak for a day or more. It will help dissolve any carbon in the rings. Once you get it running add Seafoam to the fuel and oil to attack carbon in the rings from all sides.
WD40..............Nooo
seaform or Koil "might" work but your best bet is to take it apart and pull the piston...bet the rings are frozen to the piston..you'll never get enough compression to start it..
rusted cylinder too is it's a steel bore
The last one I did was with WD40. I couldn't find a funnel to put kerosene into it. (kerosene soak is the old family recipe). It started, but didn't have much power. If I have to pull it apart, I'll probably just swap in the Chinese knock off.
To do it "right" I'd be inclined to go with Jglenn & pull it down. A new set of rings won't set you back much & running a cylinder hone brush up & down a bit will smooth out the walls & get you a good (better anyways) seal. I did a locked up Briggs this way a few years back & put it on a go-kart that's still ruining my yard on a regular basis. Think the ring set cost me about $10 on ebay.
You're probably right, but I'm not too sure of the availability of parts. Dad said that he couldn't get points and condenser for it anymore. He had been starting it with an electric drill.
I had a 1970ish Johnson boat motor that seized up from sitting. It was sooo bad that I had pound the pistons out the cylinders (with authoritay) and break the rings out in chunks.
A friend acquired it years ago and it's still running after my "rebuild" back in the 80s.
I'm not too sure of the availability of parts.
PM me the pertinent #'s
if it's a Honda, the parts ARE available, and I'll help you chase down a Gasket set and a Piston kit.
Sea-Foam Dittos, that or #2 Diesel.
GTC
Odds are the rings are glued to the pistons but ...
After soaking with Seafoam I'd give it a compression test just to check. If it was near normal then I might think about running it as is.
True, but it does work (though there are other solvents I'd prefer to use) and you can run the engine for a short while using only WD-40 if you don't have the fuel lines hooked up.
The danger in running the engine if the rings are stuck is that the rings need to float in order to prevent hot spots and scraping/scoring. Stuck or sticky rings can be bad news for the cylinder.
Some folks get in too much of a hurry, "Waking Up" old or siezed small engines.
I'm of the opinion that,once freed up, you literally CAN'T spin em' up "Cold" long enough to do ought but good,...e.g. plug(s) out and cylinder(s) WET with the skunk pizz of choice,......I'm not saying one should burn up a starter, either.
Just "woke up" a nice old Kohler that's sat forever,.....been running it in GENTLY, at low RPMs for days now,.......between Sea Foam and diesel poured into it and some obvious wear, it was smoking at first,......not much smoke at all, this evening,.....
Not saying that'll always work, either. Coastal salt rust is pretty onerous, and final.
GTC
Yep, long as there wasn't heroic effort involved in making the piston move, soaking and getting things moving slowly probably won't be a problem. (I guess I mixed in fishhead's comment about beating the shizzle loose in a different motor.
) Loosening and 'washing' seems to work on a lot of these small motors, since much of the stuff that needs rinsing is corrosion effects rather than carbon, the usual cause of sticking rings.
Take Fish, Cross, and Klik's words. Seafoam or diesel, soak. Kroil is too expensive, and it won't make much difference what skunk piss you use anyway. You could even run diesel at about 25% or so in the oil too, just don't rev or put a load on it, then drain and fill with your prefered flavor. If it runs good enough to till up a small garden once or twice a year, that's good enough.
I started a seized Allis Chalmers engine by pulling the injectors, filling the cylinders with a 50/50 mix of diesel and ATF,and giving the concoction TIME to work ( a week or more IIRC )
After breaking the engine loose with a long, homemade wrench, and some help (240# baby brother), it started. We ran it for about a day at a fast idle.
Said motor is still running an irrigation pump, after around 20 years - with no excessive oil consumption.
Mark
Thinking back - the mix of diesel and ATF smelled much like Kroil.
M
I agree, if the engine was seized its time for a rebuild. If you want a quick fix, I am a believer in Kroil. The stuff works, ive used it extensively for a long time. Another good rust breaker is mouse milk. can be spendy also but it works.
The best snake oil all depends on why the engine is seized.
If it was rust ... or if it's carbon deposits ... or if it's a combination of both.
The best snake oil will dissolve carbon and rust/corrosion.
WD-40 works fine...for many things. Some folks just believe anything they hear....idiots..
Another good rust breaker is mouse milk. can be spendy also but it works.
How do you get them to stand still in the milk barn?
It takes more patience than talent let me tell you. Little buggers are quick
Start it and let it run - what have you got to lose?
WD-40 works fine...for many things. Some folks just believe anything they hear....idiots..
Fak! Who let the retard off the bus?
I used Kroil in my 1924 Fordson. Motor was stuck as heck when I found it. Been running great for 15 years or more, now.
I've got all winter for it to soak. Good thought on turning it over a bit before starting it. Pretty sure that the reason for being stuck is corrosion. Could probably turn it over with a 3/8 drill with the plug out. If I got something bigger, I could probably turn it with the plug in and pull seafoam through the carb. The gas tank appears to be empty, so I'm hoping they ran it dry. Probably mix ATF with the kerosene.
I need ether to get it started the first few times. It ran ok wide open, but idled rough. And it needed to be choked. After I ran some seafoam through it, it's been idling smooth, but still needs the choke out, so I suppose some tweaking on the jets is in order. Probably explains why it starts so hard cold. I'm actually impressed with the compression that it has after over 30 years. It's lost some power, but it will still get away from you if it gets into the sod.
Good to hear. I would bet you could take that carb apart and find some sort of trash in the jets or idle circuit.
I need ether to get it started the first few times. It ran ok wide open, but idled rough. And it needed to be choked. After I ran some seafoam through it, it's been idling smooth, but still needs the choke out, so I suppose some tweaking on the jets is in order. Probably explains why it starts so hard cold. I'm actually impressed with the compression that it has after over 30 years. It's lost some power, but it will still get away from you if it gets into the sod.
If it needs the choke to run it's got a vacuum leak. Too much air = more fuel and that's what the choke does.
That's worth a look. Not too many places for a vacuum leak on a small engine. Probably just shoot some ether on it and see if I can hear a difference.
Thought you were older than that Fish.
Thought you were older than that Fish.
Whoa. Where did that come from?
If I owned and operated a 1970ish Johnson ...
I mix a cap full of Seafoam in each tank of gas on my mowers.. and each gallon of gas for them, get 2.5 ounces of ATF tossed in there...
it has ended ANY Fuel/Ethanol problems big time...
as a side note, I saw a mower engine for sale at Harbor Freight, that is either a carbon copy of a Honda Motor, or Honda is having them made in China... at Harbor Freight the mower motor was $104. they also had smaller motors with a output drive shaft, something should fit a tiller...
The no name chinee brand is a clone.
TIFWIW.
I picked up one of those engines at a neighbor's yard sale for $30 NIB. I had planned on putting it on this tiller, and still might, but mods will need to be made. On the original engine, the jug is upright, it's a flathead, and the piston goes straight up and down. The Chinese knockoff copies a more modern honda engine with overhead valves and the jug sits at an angle, tilted back towards the tiller. As a result, that engine needs to sit about 2" further forward than the stock engine. I'd need longer belts, I suspect that the belt clutch geometry would need to be modified, and there's a plate that bolts to the front of the engine and the transmission that would need to be fabbed.