It's good to excel at your job�and if that excellence involves protecting the innocent and rescuing children, so much the better. Good stuff. But if we're going to recognize individuals who have done awesome things, is it entirely necessary to lavishly spread the praise so that their entire trade is stroked as especially courageous, even when the actual facts suggest it's one job among many, done by people of varying virtue?
Well, yeah. When it comes to cops and politicians, such mass petting apparently is necessary. Like when President Obama and Vice President Biden pasted on their smiles to honor the National Organization of Police Organizations' "Top Cops" winners at the White House.
Said Biden:
And the President and I, we recognize the bravery that you display simply by putting on that shield every morning. That, all by itself, is an act of bravery. Strapping on your sidearm, kissing your husband or your wife goodbye at the door, walking out knowing -- because most of you are experienced -- knowing that you don't know with any degree of certitude what�s about to greet you. You have no idea -- except some of it may not be good.
The officers we have here today have been singled out for going above and beyond the call of duty, and we commend each and every one of them. And from my perspective, there�s no greater honor that a law enforcement officer could have than being recognized and nominated by his fellow officers -- because you all know what real courage is. You all know what kind of steel in your spine it takes to make the decisions that the men standing behind me have made.
We also know that there are thousands and thousands of more law enforcement officers out there on the job today and every day who are taking risks that are hard for ordinary people to imagine. They take risks to protect the community, protect the people they don't know, protect people they�ve never met. But they go out there and you all do it anyway, regardless of whether or not -- where they�re from, who they are, whether you know them or not.
"Bravery"? "Courage"? "Risk"? So this is the White House edition of Deadliest Catch?
That might make sense. For years, commercial fishing was the most dangerous trade in which an American could engage. In 1995, risking your life to gather fresh seafood carried a score of 21.3 on the Bureau of Labor Statistic Index of Relative Risk. Police work came in at 3.4. Driving a taxi scored at 9.5.
Even if you limit the danger to homicide, cashiers, cabbies, and "Supervisors, proprietors, sales" carried greater risks of being murdered on the job.
Have the relative dangers for police work increased since 1995?
Well...There's a change. People are now falling out of trees more often than they're falling overboard. But law enforcement still isn't in the top rank of dangerous jobs.
According to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, there were 100 on-the-job deaths in 2013, down from 183 in 1995 (and 280 in 1974).
Which doesn't lessen the individual bravery involved in "Storming an underground bunker to rescue a kidnapped five-year-old boy"�one of the feats honored at the White House. And it's good when work gets safer.
But, reality TV aside, lumberjacks don't draw the same kind of official praise as police officers. Nor do commercial fishermen. Or airline pilots. Or roofers.
And lumberjacks and company don't wield the same sort of power over their neighbors, not always for the sort of praiseworthy purposes touted at the White House ceremony. Law enforcement is increasingly militarized, larded with special authority, and prone to civil liberties abuses. Police are also increasingly resented by ther fellow Americans for the same, even if politicians don't quite get that lots of folks don't appreciate getting pushed around by uniformed enforcers.
Then again, maybe that's politicians like them so much�at least, so long as they know who butters their bread.
As Obama said:
And let me start by thanking Joe Biden not only for being a great Vice President -- which he is -- but also being a lifelong friend of law enforcement. (Applause.) Now, he and I have a special reason for loving law enforcement, because we have the unusual privilege of being surrounded by law enforcement every minute of every day. (Laughter.) And they also protect the people we love most in the world -- our families. So we�re incredibly grateful to them and to all the law enforcement officers who serve and protect families and communities across the nation every single day.
Too Praetorian for my taste. Better to praise the standouts�and keep a close eye on the rest.
No, but I have done logging, fishing, flying, construction, and "Supervisors, proprietors, sales" that are up to nearly seven times more dangerous. I and my colleagues were not oblivious to the risks, but we did not puff our chests and propagandize them either.
Nor did Obama and Biden hold big official cheer leading events for any (very few would have wanted their cheers or to share their dais) of us. We were not, though, their Praetorian Guard protecting their power and privilege and enforcing their dictates.
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You made your rulers mighty, gave them guards, So now you groan 'neath slavery's heavy rod. ~ Solon
Would you be willing to risk getting an STD making a prostitution arrest as officers in Hawaii are willing to do to make the community a better place? You are pathetic.
No, but I have done logging, fishing, flying, construction, and "Supervisors, proprietors, sales" that are up to nearly seven times more dangerous. I and my colleagues were not oblivious to the risks, but we did not puff our chests and propagandize them either.
Nor did Obama and Biden hold big official cheer leading events for any (very few would have wanted their cheers or to share their dais) of us. We were not, though, their Praetorian Guard protecting their power and privilege and enforcing their dictates.
Quote
You made your rulers mighty, gave them guards, So now you groan 'neath slavery's heavy rod. ~ Solon
That reminds me of why gun control is not such a bad thing because everytime a new firearms safety initiative or law is announced there is always a blue wall behind the speaker.
Yep, and that is very smart on their part. Get gun control laws in so people have to call when tshtf and even if someone is armed and manages to kill an intruder they have to call the police to get the dead body out of their house or stand to run afoul of the law too.
It's good to excel at your job�and if that excellence involves protecting the innocent and rescuing children, so much the better. Good stuff. But if we're going to recognize individuals who have done awesome things, is it entirely necessary to lavishly spread the praise so that their entire trade is stroked as especially courageous, even when the actual facts suggest it's one job among many, done by people of varying virtue?
Well, yeah. When it comes to cops and politicians, such mass petting apparently is necessary. Like when President Obama and Vice President Biden pasted on their smiles to honor the National Organization of Police Organizations' "Top Cops" winners at the White House.
Said Biden:
And the President and I, we recognize the bravery that you display simply by putting on that shield every morning. That, all by itself, is an act of bravery. Strapping on your sidearm, kissing your husband or your wife goodbye at the door, walking out knowing -- because most of you are experienced -- knowing that you don't know with any degree of certitude what�s about to greet you. You have no idea -- except some of it may not be good.
The officers we have here today have been singled out for going above and beyond the call of duty, and we commend each and every one of them. And from my perspective, there�s no greater honor that a law enforcement officer could have than being recognized and nominated by his fellow officers -- because you all know what real courage is. You all know what kind of steel in your spine it takes to make the decisions that the men standing behind me have made.
We also know that there are thousands and thousands of more law enforcement officers out there on the job today and every day who are taking risks that are hard for ordinary people to imagine. They take risks to protect the community, protect the people they don't know, protect people they�ve never met. But they go out there and you all do it anyway, regardless of whether or not -- where they�re from, who they are, whether you know them or not.
"Bravery"? "Courage"? "Risk"? So this is the White House edition of Deadliest Catch?
That might make sense. For years, commercial fishing was the most dangerous trade in which an American could engage. In 1995, risking your life to gather fresh seafood carried a score of 21.3 on the Bureau of Labor Statistic Index of Relative Risk. Police work came in at 3.4. Driving a taxi scored at 9.5.
Even if you limit the danger to homicide, cashiers, cabbies, and "Supervisors, proprietors, sales" carried greater risks of being murdered on the job.
Have the relative dangers for police work increased since 1995?
Well...There's a change. People are now falling out of trees more often than they're falling overboard. But law enforcement still isn't in the top rank of dangerous jobs.
According to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, there were 100 on-the-job deaths in 2013, down from 183 in 1995 (and 280 in 1974).
Which doesn't lessen the individual bravery involved in "Storming an underground bunker to rescue a kidnapped five-year-old boy"�one of the feats honored at the White House. And it's good when work gets safer.
But, reality TV aside, lumberjacks don't draw the same kind of official praise as police officers. Nor do commercial fishermen. Or airline pilots. Or roofers.
And lumberjacks and company don't wield the same sort of power over their neighbors, not always for the sort of praiseworthy purposes touted at the White House ceremony. Law enforcement is increasingly militarized, larded with special authority, and prone to civil liberties abuses. Police are also increasingly resented by ther fellow Americans for the same, even if politicians don't quite get that lots of folks don't appreciate getting pushed around by uniformed enforcers.
Then again, maybe that's politicians like them so much�at least, so long as they know who butters their bread.
As Obama said:
And let me start by thanking Joe Biden not only for being a great Vice President -- which he is -- but also being a lifelong friend of law enforcement. (Applause.) Now, he and I have a special reason for loving law enforcement, because we have the unusual privilege of being surrounded by law enforcement every minute of every day. (Laughter.) And they also protect the people we love most in the world -- our families. So we�re incredibly grateful to them and to all the law enforcement officers who serve and protect families and communities across the nation every single day.
Too Praetorian for my taste. Better to praise the standouts�and keep a close eye on the rest.
It's good to excel at your job�and if that excellence involves protecting the innocent and rescuing children, so much the better. Good stuff. But if we're going to recognize individuals who have done awesome things, is it entirely necessary to lavishly spread the praise so that their entire trade is stroked as especially courageous, even when the actual facts suggest it's one job among many, done by people of varying virtue?
Well, yeah. When it comes to cops and politicians, such mass petting apparently is necessary. Like when President Obama and Vice President Biden pasted on their smiles to honor the National Organization of Police Organizations' "Top Cops" winners at the White House.
Said Biden:
And the President and I, we recognize the bravery that you display simply by putting on that shield every morning. That, all by itself, is an act of bravery. Strapping on your sidearm, kissing your husband or your wife goodbye at the door, walking out knowing -- because most of you are experienced -- knowing that you don't know with any degree of certitude what�s about to greet you. You have no idea -- except some of it may not be good.
The officers we have here today have been singled out for going above and beyond the call of duty, and we commend each and every one of them. And from my perspective, there�s no greater honor that a law enforcement officer could have than being recognized and nominated by his fellow officers -- because you all know what real courage is. You all know what kind of steel in your spine it takes to make the decisions that the men standing behind me have made.
We also know that there are thousands and thousands of more law enforcement officers out there on the job today and every day who are taking risks that are hard for ordinary people to imagine. They take risks to protect the community, protect the people they don't know, protect people they�ve never met. But they go out there and you all do it anyway, regardless of whether or not -- where they�re from, who they are, whether you know them or not.
"Bravery"? "Courage"? "Risk"? So this is the White House edition of Deadliest Catch?
That might make sense. For years, commercial fishing was the most dangerous trade in which an American could engage. In 1995, risking your life to gather fresh seafood carried a score of 21.3 on the Bureau of Labor Statistic Index of Relative Risk. Police work came in at 3.4. Driving a taxi scored at 9.5.
Even if you limit the danger to homicide, cashiers, cabbies, and "Supervisors, proprietors, sales" carried greater risks of being murdered on the job.
Have the relative dangers for police work increased since 1995?
Well...There's a change. People are now falling out of trees more often than they're falling overboard. But law enforcement still isn't in the top rank of dangerous jobs.
According to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, there were 100 on-the-job deaths in 2013, down from 183 in 1995 (and 280 in 1974).
Which doesn't lessen the individual bravery involved in "Storming an underground bunker to rescue a kidnapped five-year-old boy"�one of the feats honored at the White House. And it's good when work gets safer.
But, reality TV aside, lumberjacks don't draw the same kind of official praise as police officers. Nor do commercial fishermen. Or airline pilots. Or roofers.
And lumberjacks and company don't wield the same sort of power over their neighbors, not always for the sort of praiseworthy purposes touted at the White House ceremony. Law enforcement is increasingly militarized, larded with special authority, and prone to civil liberties abuses. Police are also increasingly resented by ther fellow Americans for the same, even if politicians don't quite get that lots of folks don't appreciate getting pushed around by uniformed enforcers.
Then again, maybe that's politicians like them so much�at least, so long as they know who butters their bread.
As Obama said:
And let me start by thanking Joe Biden not only for being a great Vice President -- which he is -- but also being a lifelong friend of law enforcement. (Applause.) Now, he and I have a special reason for loving law enforcement, because we have the unusual privilege of being surrounded by law enforcement every minute of every day. (Laughter.) And they also protect the people we love most in the world -- our families. So we�re incredibly grateful to them and to all the law enforcement officers who serve and protect families and communities across the nation every single day.
Too Praetorian for my taste. Better to praise the standouts�and keep a close eye on the rest.
Obama's Civilian National Security Force
Is there a contest or something?
No, and it is important to notice that even those in the much more dangerous professions do not propagandize and trade upon the real dangers of their professions.
LEOs and their politician masters / benefactors do, however, heavily propagandize and trade upon the fallacy of the extreme danger of law enforcement. Indeed, this fallacious propaganda of the danger of law enforcement as a profession is an enabler of every abuse of citizens by LEOs and an enhancer of LEOs value as enforcers of tyranny for the would be tyrants among their politician masters / benefactors.
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[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them. ~ Candidus
i think its a job that makes you deal with people in their worst situations. anger, grief, desperation, bitterness, evil. if we were talking Mayberry RFD, maybe i'd agree, but todays cops get a tip of my hat. ya they ain't perfect, and the job seems to attract a certain type of person who are on a power trip, but for the most part, i have no issue with LE. but then again, i obey the law and live a quiet, peaceful life and rarely if ever have a need to come in contact with them. i think most people who have a problem with LE, end up with a problem with LE.
The "risk assessment index" of the BLS is a simple reporting survey on occupational hazards. While deaths and injuries of commercial fisherman and cab drivers, et. al. usually gets reported, the high profile nature of a LEO gets more attention. The former do not provide for security and an orderly society but they provide a much needed service. Those who choose to injure or kill LEO's demonstrate their willingness to challenge the gatekeepers of order. Their aggressive behavior is an affront to all of us in society.
The assault of a cab driver or death of a commercial fisherman, while tragic to those around them, doesn't have the same "expression of aggression" as those perpetrated on a LEO.
The lower ranking or injuries and deaths to LEO's can be attributed to improved equipment and training. It was my goal and it continues to be for all LEO's to go home after shift.
As a 23 year veteran of LE I can honestly say there was only a handful of times when I questioned my decision to be a LEO. The majority of those were due to the politics of the job. Any young man with a pair bigger than marbles and an above average amount of common sense can have a very rewarding career in LE and remain safe if he/she follows their training guidelines.
The difference between LE and the other higher risk jobs boils down to a few factors. LEO's are trained to deal with the possibilities, and face them on a daily basis.
The civilian positions mentioned aren't trained to deal with most confrontational situations but don't usually have to deal with them daily.
LEO's maintain a vigilance that is not common in civilian positions that allows them to be caught off guard more frequently.
I take my hat off to Firemen, their job requires a pair much larger than mine.
that is what make them have a high risk job, more than dying from a firearm . They have a higher risk of dying from a Heart Attack sitting in a car all day eating junk food than anything else.
that is what make them have a high risk job, more than dying from a firearm . They have a higher risk of dying from a Heart Attack sitting in a car all day eating junk food than anything else.
You're right about that. Eating adrenaline for twenty years, then crap for another twenty, is the reason life expectancy is so short for cops.
Where you work can make a big difference in how dangerous the work is. I spent 32 years, in uniform, on the street, in a de-industrialized, rust belt urban [bleep] hole. Now I work in a "Mayberry" style micro department. There is simply no comparison between the two jobs, in terms of the real danger.
The long term danger is the stress, the average retired officer lasts 5 years on the pension. Most of my friends from the old days are dead now. I was talking to an old friend just last night, about the night when she was gunned down in an ambush. She survived, I've been to a couple of funerals for friends who didn't.
Besides working in the inner city, the rural deputies also have special risks, because they are always alone, and with help far away.
There are more dangerous jobs for sure, I have family in farming, and that is dangerous for sure. I have a cousin who lost a leg in a grain bin.
Can police work be dangerous? Absolutely, and I have had plenty of close calls, and I have been scared too. I used to tell the new recruits that any one who is never scared is too stupid to be a police officer.
I know that lots of jobs are dangerous, I have investigated some of the deaths, a welder blew himself up. An electrician fried himself. A truck driver had bad air brakes and ran himself over. They all had families too.
Is some one trying to kill you on purpose more frightening than being killed by accident? I guess that depends on what scares you. Your mileage may vary.
Two points about why the job is more dangerous that stats portray and why it's as safe as it is.
1. It's not just dying. Ever had a guy with Hep C AND HIV bite your arm and break skin? I have. That's not seconds or minutes of being scared. That's months of terror. I got lucky. That was 10 years ago. My old partner in the jails got TB from working there. Seen more than a handful get weird diseases. Very many get career ending injuries. And way too many becomes alcoholics after their wives lwft them because they were never home. No clue on the numbers, but suicide by late career and retired cops is fairly high.
Can this happen In other jobs? Of course, but it's fairly high in LE and ads to the overall picture. It's not just being ahot at or killed.
2. As for why it's actually safer than you'd expect compared to a cabbie or logger, (you won't like this answer) we're better trained and expecting to deal with bad people or violent situations. We have tools to react with. We have equipment that helps us stay safe. Cabbies don't. Loggers kinda do, but stuff happens. A bullet hits a vest and there's a decent chance we just get hurt, but live. Bullet hits a cabbie, he's got a better chance of dieing. Tree falls the wrong way or cable snaps, logger is lucky if he's wearing more than a shirt.
I believe roughly 5000 Americans are killed at work each year.
Yes, the fact is clear, established, and well documented that law enforcement is not an especially dangerous career.
We can allow LEOs their blustering, deflecting, and excuses making as needed balms to the bruising caused by this fact to their large and fragile egos.
What we can no longer allow is for them to continue to hype and heavily trade upon a false narrative of the extreme dangers that they face.
LEOs hyped false narrative costs we citizens in needless and extravagant law enforcement equipment.
LEOs hyped false narrative costs we citizens in inflated pay and benefits, especially retirements, to LEOs.
LEOs hyped false narrative costs we citizens in sovereignty and liberty lost to the natural and empowered allegiances among LEOs and big government politicians.
LEOs hyped false narrative costs we citizens in the lives of our dogs, grandparents, and teen girls.
One of the weird things here that I've never understood is some folks outright hatred of anything government or any symbol of authority-
While I'm no fan of the goobermint either, I don't comprehend the downright hatred expressed towards law enforcement by some on this board.
Projection - You are projecting your own emotion onto others reason.
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As compared with impulsive commitment to the first idea which dawns, that is, with intuitive action, reasoning is patient, exploratory of other possibilities, and deliberative. ~ Edwin Arthur Burtt
If you'd like to hear various people in various professions speak to the dangers of their respective professions, just start watching reality TV.
Travis
I confess to knowing almost nothing about reality TV.
I did watch a singing contest with cute girls in it and a silly race around the world that my aged Mom likes with her, when I went to remodel her house for accessibility after her stroke.
Personally I'm not sure why anyone would want to be on the list of 10 most dangerous jobs. The insults, spewing the "hate" word all of the back and forth over "dangerous" is posturing to me.
At the end of the day is it simply all about the massive debt the taxpayers "owe" to Public Employees" and the looming battle coming over that debt, with Public Employees staking out their ground with propaganda, to make sure it's not their OX that gets gored?
If you'd like to hear various people in various professions speak to the dangers of their respective professions, just start watching reality TV.
Travis
I confess to knowing almost nothing about reality TV.
I understand. But you said there was no chest pounding, so I'm trying to help you out.
Here's another one. Based on the one or two episodes I've had the misfortune of seeing, this occupation only takes second place to fighter pilots and those that worked on the Manhattan project.
Strapping on your sidearm, kissing your husband or your wife goodbye at the door,
Subtle, but disgusting nonetheless. Notice his diction; Husband is listed first. Clearly the large majority of police officers are heterosexual men, yet why the change in order?
If you'd like to hear various people in various professions speak to the dangers of their respective professions, just start watching reality TV.
Travis
I confess to knowing almost nothing about reality TV.
I understand. But you said there was no chest pounding, so I'm trying to help you out.
Here's another one. Based on the one or two episodes I've had the misfortune of seeing, this occupation only takes second place to fighter pilots and those that worked on the Manhattan project.
Folks are queer about odds and statistics, and how that relates to their daily lives. People freak out about guns, lightning, tornadoes, bag-guys in the night, and a million other things. But that four wheeled death machine in the driveway is exponentially more likely to be a cause of death.
You'll be on the edge of your seat before each commercial break. Unfortunately, when the break is over, you just watch a tree fall down and listen to a lot of censored speech.
But make no mistake, every cast member will inform you about the dangers of their job.
During the Salt Lake City library hostage crisis, a police officer voluntarily snuck into the room with the other hostages, and pretended to be one of the hostages. Although he was armed, his life was in just as much danger as the hostage taker had a bomb. Extraordinary.
Here is my opinion on the LE profession. It is many, many hours of mundane work mixed in with a few moments of high pressure, dangerous work. The difference to me is that the other dangerous professions are doing it solely for monetary gain. LE protects the public and IMO that is a bit more noble than catching a fish. Also, you know that if you choose LE, you will have some very dangerous (and sad) moments. Many of the others never have to deal with that.
LE is viewed by many as bad right up until the time they need them, then they expect superhuman response to THEIR problem.
Last thing: LE is made up of people. You will have the good and the bad. No getting around that.
I mean who wants to screw with dope heads, thieves and murderers for a living? (Besides lawyers and Sherp)
I sure as hell don't and would have been relieved of my duties for administering dozens of leg shots.
Considering I haven't said a kind word for dope heads, thieves, or murderers and officers have to testify under oath in court fairly often, you would probably be relieved of duty long before you got in the first leg shot.
Watch an episode of COPS afterward. Tell me which one looks scripted.
Travis
I do not want to watch the reality TV junk, so I'll just accept your word that some on there engage in some 'puffery' about the real dangers of their professions for entertainments sake.
Almost the only TV that I've cared to watch lately has been these two via streaming:
A little harmless puffery about real dangers for a TV show is, though, very different from LEOs and politicians political propagandizing, at the highest levels, of hyped dangers.
Especially when the costs of our allowing LEOs and their politician allies to politically propagandize their hyped dangers of law enforcement is so very high in taxes, lives, and lost liberty.
Horror: Why Did This Cop Fire 4 Shots At A Teen Girl, Killing Her?
What is this, the 3rd time you added this to a thread?
Fishing hard aren't you.
I'll oblige.
The cop indicated that she attempted to speed off when directed by him (while on foot) to stop, as she was leaving a party that was reported as drunken kids being a nuisance.
He indicated that during her attempt to leave, he wound up on the hood of the car, and she wasn't stopping, so he shot her.
Her friends in the car, who were not shot, gave a different account, however, I have not found their version in print.
Some witnesses corroborate the LEO's story.
The 19 year old driver had one prior, recent DWI arrest.
Not sure if anything else has been made public. I researched it last week during your first trawl, but didn't feel like getting into it.
No Knock Raid Results in Multiple Cops Shot - One Killed
A lot of people � innocent people � and their pets have wound up dead during no knock raids in recent years in this country. A no knock raid is when officers can serve a warrant on a house without notifying the residents first. At all. Period. Without ringing the doorbell, calling first, a knock, nothing. Police typically do it in the middle of the night or in the wee hours of the morning, too, when people are more likely to be asleep. The majority of these raids aren�t even for violent crimes or imminent threats to life and limb, but drug crimes. So a lot of people tend to die. It�s a pretty stupid way to enforce laws. We live in a country where the citizenry are armed. If it�s the middle of the night and you hear someone busting through your front door, and if you exercise your 2nd Amendment rights by owning a firearm, your first reaction is going to be to draw that firearm to protect yourself and your family. If you do that when a burglar or worse is breaking into your house to possibly cause harm to you and your family and property, then you�ve done the wise thing. That�s called self-defense. However, if you pull your gun in the same scenario, only replacing the burglar with a SWAT officer, it�s very likely you, and possibly your family and pets, might end up dead. Really dead. Shot 22 times and left to bleed to death dead, like this Marine: U.S. Marine Jose Guerena was shot twenty-two times by a SWAT team planning to execute a search warrant. He retrieved a legally possessed rifle in response to sudden intruders, and the SWAT team opened fire on him before establishing any communication. The team later retracted its initial claims he had opened fire when it was established that Guerena had never fired and his safety was still on. The police refused to allow paramedics to access Guerena for more than hour, leaving Guerena to bleed to death, alone, in his own home. Members of the SWAT team subsequently hired legal defense and a large following of fellow Marines held a memorial service at his home with his widow. Or you might end up charged with capital crimes because you thought you were defending yourself but you didn�t realize the people breaking into your home were actually police officers. Here is just another example of exactly why no knock raids are stupid. Killeen, Texas resident Marvin Louis Guy is currently being held at the Killeen City Jail on a $3 million bond for opening fire on a Killeen Tactical Response Unit and a Central Texas Organized Crime Unit that jointly descended on his home at 5:30 in the morning without knocking first to serve a narcotics search warrant last Friday. Multiple officers were hit. Detective Charles Dinwiddie later died from his injuries. Based on this excerpt from the Killeen Police Department�s press release, the officers weren�t even going in through the front door: On Friday May 9, 2014, just after 5:30am, members of the Killeen Police Department Tactical Response Unit and the Bell Organized Crime Unit were attempting to serve a narcotics search warrant. The TRU was beginning to breach the window when the 49 year old male inside, opened fire striking four officers. While police may refer to this as a �dynamic entry,� it really just seems like a dumb idea � especially in Texas � or at the very least, a bad idea for a gang of armed men to break in through someone�s window at the crack of dawn and not expect a response in-kind. The cop was killed because he was shot in the face. He was shot in the face because he was trying to crawl through these people�s window while they were sleeping like a common criminal would. And why is all this deemed necessary over some drugs? No one�s life was in immediate danger here. It begs the question why these officers couldn�t have waited for this man to leave his apartment to go to the grocery store to arrest him, because certainly that would have happened at some point. Now one of those officers had to die over it. Was it worth it? Is it ever worth it? What happened to cops who protect and serve? These officers aren�t soldiers, but they dress up like them to fight a phony war on drugs which, like the war on terror, will never be won. Prohibition has never historically worked. Besides, if cases can�t be made without paramilitary style no-knock raids conducted on sleeping people in their homes, perhaps the officers don�t have a very good case to begin with. We live in a country of increasingly militarized police forces. Over 90% of towns with 50,000 people or more have SWAT teams now. Why exactly are our government agencies doling out billions of dollars in military weapons to our local police departments? The American Civil Liberties Union makes a pretty good point: towns don�t need tanks. During the commission of these no knock raids, many innocent people have been gunned down. Children and pets have been shot and killed all across the nation. Elderly people who attempted to protect themselves have been slain in their homes and officers later found out they weren�t even in the right homes to begin with. When the officers do it, it�s considered their �duty�; they were just doing their jobs when someone�s eight-year-old accidentally gets killed during a raid. On the other hand, when the average citizen fires under what they thought was the guise of self-defense on people they did not know were officers for breaking into their homes unannounced in the middle of the night, well�those people get charged with capital murder. Although, sometimes the Grand Jury fails to indict. Capital murder charges were recently dropped against 28-year-old Henry Goedrich Magee after he shot and killed a cop during a no knock raid on his Central Texas home over some marijuana plants he had been accused of growing. The state ultimately couldn�t prove Magee knew it was police and not intruders who were entering his home before he opened fire nor could they disprove that he was acting in self-defense�because he was. Some 40,000 of these no knock raids happen every year in this country. The CATO Institute not only released an interactive map of botched paramilitary raids, but a white paper with an extensive catalog of mistaken raids and abuses that, at 103 pages, is long enough to prove that no knock raids are a horrible pratice that needs to stop. This writer knows that she lives in America, so we at least have the superficial appearance of a Constitution and Bill of Rights that includes a Fourth Amendment which is supposed to protect the nation�s citizens from unreasonable search and seizure. Just having probable cause a crime was committed doesn�t mean you shouldn�t have to at least ring the doorbell first. The longer these raids continue, the more people are going to needlessly die. What justice are these ill-advised tactics possibly serving? It�s just�stupid.
The real danger in law enforcement is to citizens:
Quote
Americans Killed by Cops Now Outnumber Americans Killed in Iraq War
The increase in police brutality in this country is a frightening reality. In the last decade alone the number of people murdered by police has reached 5,000. The number of soldiers killed since the inception of the Iraq war, 4489.
What went wrong? In the 1970�s SWAT teams were estimated to be used just a few hundred times per year, now we are looking at over 40,000 military style �knock and announce� police raids a year.
The police presence in this country is being turned into a military with a clearly defined enemy, anyone who questions the establishment.
If we look at the most recent numbers of non-military US citizens killed by terrorism worldwide, that number is 17. You have a better chance of being killed by a bee sting, or a home repair accident than you do a terrorist. And you are 29 times more likely to be murdered by a cop than a terrorist!
It is always dangerous to the liberties of the people to have an army stationed among them, over which they have no control ... The Militia is composed of free Citizens. There is therefore no danger of their making use of their Power to the destruction of their own Rights ~ Samuel Adams
What is this, the 3rd time you added this to a thread?
Fishing hard aren't you.
I'll oblige.
The cop indicated that she attempted to speed off when directed by him (while on foot) to stop, as she was leaving a party that was reported as drunken kids being a nuisance.
He indicated that during her attempt to leave, he wound up on the hood of the car, and she wasn't stopping, so he shot her.
Her friends in the car, who were not shot, gave a different account, however, I have not found their version in print.
Some witnesses corroborate the LEO's story.
The 19 year old driver had one prior, recent DWI arrest.
Not sure if anything else has been made public. I researched it last week during your first trawl, but didn't feel like getting into it.
Yep, I saw this video. She took off so fast the vortex snatched him up while he was alongside the car and dumped him on the hood. He ignored that danger to his life and fired only because he was sure she was going to go run over other people somewhere else.
In a lessor but still very serious vein and, again, demonstrating that what is good for LEOs and their political allies is very often otherwise for we citizens; Obama told his LEO pals how great amnesty is going to be for them:
Obama Tells Cops Immigration Reform Will Make Their Jobs Easier
As the nation�s capital is packed with cops marking National Police Week, President Obama sat down with law enforcement leaders to make a case for immigration reform.
About 40 officers representing the Major Cities Chiefs Association, Major County Sheriffs Association, National Sheriffs Association, International Association of Chiefs of Police, Fraternal Order of Police, National Association of Police Organizations, Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association, and Police Executive Research Association, along with Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, got about 10 minutes of Obama�s time at the Eisenhower Office Building at noontime.
�The immigration system that we have right now makes it harder, not easier, for law enforcement agencies to do their jobs. It makes it harder for law enforcement to know when dangerous people cross our borders. It makes it harder for business owners who play by the rules to compete when they�re undercut by those who would exploit workers in a shadow economy. And it makes it harder for law enforcement to do their jobs when large segments of the community are afraid to report crimes or serve as witnesses because they fear the consequences for themselves or their families,� Obama said.
�This system is not fair. It�s not fair to workers; it�s not fair to businesses who are trying to do the right thing; it�s not fair to law enforcement agencies that are already stretched thin.�
Obama told the cops that his administration put personnel �arrayed at the border� well beyond anything that we saw five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago.�
�But what this reform package would also do is create a firm but fair pathway to earned citizenship for those who live in the shadows � and as a consequence, would give law enforcement a better idea of who�s in the country. It would also help build trust between local communities and law enforcement and immigrant communities. It would undermine criminal enterprises that prey on undocumented immigrants. And it would allow law enforcement to focus on its primary mission, which is keeping our communities safe,� he said.
The president blamed �a handful of House Republicans right now who are blocking going ahead and letting legislation get to the floor.�
�To their credit, I think Speaker Boehner and some of the other leaders there do believe that immigration reform is the right thing, but they�ve got to have a political space that allows them to go ahead and get it through their caucus and get it done. I�ve said to them, if they�ve got ideas I�m happy to talk to them. We�re not hell-bent on making sure that every letter of what�s in the Senate bill is exactly what ultimately lands on my desk for signature, but there are some core principles that we�ve got to get done,� he continued.
One of those musts: �We�ve got to make sure that there�s a way for people to earn some pathway to citizenship.�
�And keep in mind, some of these statistics you may have already heard � it�s estimated that over 80 percent of the folks who are here on an undocumented basis have been here 10 years or longer. These are folks who are woven into the fabrics of our communities. Their kids are going to school with our kids. Most of them are not making trouble; most of them are not causing crimes. And yet, we put them in this tenuous position and it creates a situation in which your personnel, who have got to go after gang-bangers and need to be going after violent criminals and deal with the whole range of challenges, and who have to cooperate with DHS around our counterterrorism activities � you�ve got to spend time dealing with somebody who is not causing any other trouble other than the fact that they were trying to make a living for their families. That�s just not a good use of our resources. It�s not smart. It doesn�t make sense.�
Obama said he�s trying to get �unexpected voices� to push for an immigration bill, like the cops and the evangelical Christian community, which �has shown itself to be foursquare behind immigration reform.�
�The closer we get to the midterm elections the harder it is to get things done around here. Now, I know it�s hard to believe that things could get harder that this place could get a little more dysfunctional. But it�s just very hard right before an election. So we�ve got maybe a window of two, three months to get the ball rolling in the House of Representatives. And your voices are going to be absolutely critical to that effort,� he said.
At the end of his speech, the president squeezed in a quick thank-you to law enforcement for their �heroic work.�
The dooshbag administrator cops posing with the politicians are nothing more than politicians themselves. They most assuredly don't represent the rank and file. I know they all serve the same masters yada yada yada.
excerpt: In 1971, police officers in New York City shot 314 people, killing 93. (In California, the state with the most police involved shootings in 2011, the police shot 183, killing 102.) In 2010, New York City police shot 24, killing 8. Last year, in the nation's largest city, the police shot 16, killing 6. In Columbus, Ohio, a city one eighth the size of New York, the police shot 14, killing 8. Statistical diversities like this suggest that in the cities with the highest per capita shooting rates, better people ought to be hired, or the existing forces need a lot more training in the use of deadly force.
Seems like the big apple is headed in the right direction.
The dooshbag administrator cops posing with the politicians are nothing more than politicians themselves. They most assuredly don't represent the rank and file. I know they all serve the same masters yada yada yada.
excerpt: In 1971, police officers in New York City shot 314 people, killing 93. (In California, the state with the most police involved shootings in 2011, the police shot 183, killing 102.) In 2010, New York City police shot 24, killing 8. Last year, in the nation's largest city, the police shot 16, killing 6. In Columbus, Ohio, a city one eighth the size of New York, the police shot 14, killing 8. Statistical diversities like this suggest that in the cities with the highest per capita shooting rates, better people ought to be hired, or the existing forces need a lot more training in the use of deadly force.
Seems like the big apple is headed in the right direction.
Somehow you only excerpted the less interesting and important bits of the article. Here are some more interesting and important ones:
"The nation's leading law enforcement agency [FBI] collects vast amounts of information on crime nationwide, but missing from this clearinghouse are statistics on where, how often, and under what circumstances police use deadly force. In fact, no one anywhere comprehensively tracks the most significant act police can do in the line of duty: take a life."
Since the government keeps statistics on just about everything, why no national stats on something this important? The answer is simple: they don't want us to know. Why? Because police shoot a lot more people than we think, and the government, while good at statistics, is also good at secrecy.
The government does maintain records on how many police officers are killed every year in the line of duty.
Almost all police involved shootings, while investigated by special units, prosecutor's offices, or an outside police agency, were investigated by governmental law enforcement personnel. It is perhaps not surprising that more than 95 percent of all police involved shootings were ruled administratively and legally justiified. A handful of cases led to wrongful death lawsuits. Even fewer will result in the criminal prosecution of officers. Critics of the system have called for the establishment of completely independent investigative agencies in cases of police involved shootings.
Let's ask the widow of Jason Ellis, ambushed and murdered last year, clearing out some debris his killer dropped in the road to make him stop his cruiser and remove it.
Yeah, let's ask his widow and their 5 year old son how they feel about it.
The "risk assessment index" of the BLS is a simple reporting survey on occupational hazards. While deaths and injuries of commercial fisherman and cab drivers, et. al. usually gets reported, the high profile nature of a LEO gets more attention. The former do not provide for security and an orderly society but they provide a much needed service. Those who choose to injure or kill LEO's demonstrate their willingness to challenge the gatekeepers of order. Their aggressive behavior is an affront to all of us in society.
The assault of a cab driver or death of a commercial fisherman, while tragic to those around them, doesn't have the same "expression of aggression" as those perpetrated on a LEO.
The lower ranking or injuries and deaths to LEO's can be attributed to improved equipment and training. It was my goal and it continues to be for all LEO's to go home after shift.
Plus 1
Two dead Troopers in the remote village of Tanana, Alaska recently, on a call out from Fairbanks for a reported "brandishing firearm" incident(drunk). While trying to physically subdue the perp (forgoing Tazer or pepper spray), his son shot them in the back point blank with an AR type rifle... reports have it at 7 rounds.
Anything Obie says is politically motivated, usually a lie, but he seems to me here to have inadvertantly spoken a truth.
The dooshbag administrator cops posing with the politicians are nothing more than politicians themselves. They most assuredly don't represent the rank and file. I know they all serve the same masters yada yada yada.
Please, reread your claim and notice how utterly incredulous is it. You claim that rank and file cops are totally unlike and are uninfluenced by the very cops which rose through the same ranks to now hire, train, and direct them.
Nonsense. You're too smart to try to sell that or to believe that I'd buy it. Who posted that? Did Sherp, Blue, Lt., or Gitem hijack your account?
It was a long article and I posted the link for those interested in reading it at their leisure. It doesn't change the fact that the data gathered was by an independent 3rd party. Nor does it change the fact that officer involved shootings have decreased markedly in NY since 1970.
1. Logging workers 2. Fishers and related fishing workers 3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers 4. Roofers 5. Structural iron and steel workers 6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors 7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers 8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers 9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers 10. Construction laborers
Nothing I say would change your mind anyway. There's a big difference in attitudes between someone pushing a scout car 12 hrs a day vs a soft politically driven administrator. The vast majority of the rank and file never rise above patrolman.
Nothing I say would change your mind anyway. There's a big difference in attitudes between someone pushing a scout car 12 hrs a day vs a soft politically driven administrator. The vast majority of the rank and file never rise above patrolman.
I trust that this is your heartfelt belief.
I think it is a belief that would comfort many of us if we could share it.
I just find it incredulous that John Q. Law, Jr. is completely unlike and uninfluenced by John Q. Law, Sr. that preceded him, selected him, trained him, and directs him.
I, also, understand how little it effectively matters, even if your heartfelt belief is accurate, since he is still under the direct order of these cops:
No , but I have done logging, fishing, flying, construction, and "Supervisors, proprietors, sales" that are up to nearly seven times more dangerous. I and my colleagues were not oblivious to the risks, but we did not puff our chests and propagandize them either.
Nor did Obama and Biden hold big official cheer leading events for any (very few would have wanted their cheers or to share their dais) of us. We were not, though, their Praetorian Guard protecting their power and privilege and enforcing their dictates.
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You made your rulers mighty, gave them guards, So now you groan 'neath slavery's heavy rod. ~ Solon
You should have stopped right there. 7 times more dangerous, GMAFB! TFF!!
No, but I have done logging, fishing, flying, construction, and "Supervisors, proprietors, sales" that are up to nearly seven times more dangerous. I and my colleagues were not oblivious to the risks, but we did not puff our chests and propagandize them either.
Nor did Obama and Biden hold big official cheer leading events for any (very few would have wanted their cheers or to share their dais) of us. We were not, though, their Praetorian Guard protecting their power and privilege and enforcing their dictates.
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You made your rulers mighty, gave them guards, So now you groan 'neath slavery's heavy rod. ~ Solon
You should have stopped right there. 7 times more dangerous, GMAFB! TFF!!
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risking your life to gather fresh seafood carried a score of 21.3 on the Bureau of Labor Statistic Index of Relative Risk. Police work came in at 3.4. Driving a taxi scored at 9.5.
OK, if you want to be an elementary school math teacher about it: Logging or fishing trade the slot as most dangerous jobs in almost all years and in the year cited fishing was 6.2647058823529411764705882352941 times more dangerous than law enforcement.
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...that are up to nearly seven times more dangerous.
Seven was close enough for talking about government work.
1. Logging workers 2. Fishers and related fishing workers 3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers 4. Roofers 5. Structural iron and steel workers 6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors 7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers 8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers 9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers 10. Construction laborers
Odd, is it not that only you LEOs, who don't have an especially dangerous job and are not even on the list, need a perception, in your case false, of extreme risk in your job to justify both your egos and your worth to society.
1. Logging workers 2. Fishers and related fishing workers 3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers 4. Roofers 5. Structural iron and steel workers 6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors 7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers 8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers 9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers 10. Construction laborers
Odd, is it not that only you LEOs, who don't have an especially dangerous job and are not even on the list, need a perception, in your case false, of extreme risk in your job to justify both your egos and your worth to society.
You really are upset that your wife left you for a cop aren't you?
1. Logging workers 2. Fishers and related fishing workers 3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers 4. Roofers 5. Structural iron and steel workers 6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors 7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers 8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers 9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers 10. Construction laborers
Odd, is it not that only you LEOs, who don't have an especially dangerous job and are not even on the list, need a perception, in your case false, of extreme risk in your job to justify both your egos and your worth to society.
You really are upset that your wife left you for a cop aren't you?
Yep, I bet that is it and it is bliding him to the thousands of US police gunned down every year.
1. Logging workers 2. Fishers and related fishing workers 3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers 4. Roofers 5. Structural iron and steel workers 6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors 7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers 8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers 9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers 10. Construction laborers
Odd, is it not that only you LEOs, who don't have an especially dangerous job and are not even on the list, need a perception, in your case false, of extreme risk in your job to justify both your egos and your worth to society.
Never heard of anyone on that "list" getting shot or killed. In fairness to Rover though, there are a lot of mafia types in the "refuse and recyclable material collectors" business", so maybe when a deal goes bad....
Never heard of anyone on that "list" getting shot or killed. In fairness to Rover though, there are a lot of mafia types in the "refuse and recyclable material collectors" business", so maybe when a deal goes bad....
From the article and my posting where it was, also, in bold type:
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Even if you limit the danger to homicide, cashiers, cabbies, and "Supervisors, proprietors, sales" carried greater risks of being murdered on the job.
Never heard of anyone on that "list" getting shot or killed. In fairness to Rover though, there are a lot of mafia types in the "refuse and recyclable material collectors" business", so maybe when a deal goes bad....
From the article and my posting where it was, also, in bold type:
Quote
Even if you limit the danger to homicide, cashiers, cabbies, and "Supervisors, proprietors, sales" carried greater risks of being murdered on the job.
Never heard of anyone on that "list" getting shot or killed. In fairness to Rover though, there are a lot of mafia types in the "refuse and recyclable material collectors" business", so maybe when a deal goes bad....
From the article and my posting where it was, also, in bold type:
Quote
Even if you limit the danger to homicide, cashiers, cabbies, and "Supervisors, proprietors, sales" carried greater risks of being murdered on the job.
Never heard of anyone on that "list" getting shot or killed. In fairness to Rover though, there are a lot of mafia types in the "refuse and recyclable material collectors" business", so maybe when a deal goes bad....
From the article and my posting where it was, also, in bold type:
Quote
Even if you limit the danger to homicide, cashiers, cabbies, and "Supervisors, proprietors, sales" carried greater risks of being murdered on the job.
You should not have placed all of your egos and 'golden eggs' in the same easily proven fake basket.
Who gives a crap so long as there are enough of them alive to pay the police salary and serve them when they need something.
You LEOs better allow enough of us citizens to live and earn and pay Obama, too. The Praetorian Guard has very little to do, and no one has any use for them, without their Emperor for them to guard and heed.
Not an LEO, just support what they support. And once again, that reminds me of why I softened up on firearms safety legislation. Every firearms safety law celebration has a group of officers just like that showing they support it.
Not an LEO, just support what they support. And once again, that reminds me of why I softened up on firearms safety legislation. Every firearms safety law celebration has a group of officers just like that showing they support it.
Nothing I say would change your mind anyway. There's a big difference in attitudes between someone pushing a scout car 12 hrs a day vs a soft politically driven administrator. The vast majority of the rank and file never rise above patrolman.
I trust that this is your heartfelt belief.
I think it is a belief that would comfort many of us if we could share it.
I just find it incredulous that John Q. Law, Jr. is completely unlike and uninfluenced by John Q. Law, Sr. that preceded him, selected him, trained him, and directs him.
I, also, understand how little it effectively matters, even if your heartfelt belief is accurate, since he is still under the direct order of these cops:
It is my belief and experience born true over 16 yrs on the job. How much time have you spent amongst patrol ranks? Your second to last sentence proves to me you have no clue as to what happens in a police department with regards to hiring and training.
Not an LEO, just support what they support. And once again, that reminds me of why I softened up on firearms safety legislation. Every firearms safety law celebration has a group of officers just like that showing they support it.
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