My Dad and I have had an ongoing debate on the use of synthetic oil. Since neither of us are mechanics it's pretty comical.

I bought my truck with 85,000 mi. on it 7 yrs. ago, and at 100,000 I decided I wanted to switch to synthetic. A couple of self proclaimed mechanical experts told me that it would be bad for the motor, seals, etc. since it was broke in with conventional motor oil. I stayed with conventional and now have over 200,000 mi. with no issues.

Dad bought one of his trucks (same motor) 12 years ago with 40,000 mi. on it and immediately switched to synthetic. He has 290,000 mi. on it now. He had to replace the transmission and rear-end, but the motor is still strong. His self proclaimed expert says switch to synthetic as soon as possible for maximum performance and engine life.

What gives? I'm a believer in synthetics, but am on the fence when it comes to switching over.

Just my .02., but I don't think it matters either way.. FWIW, I switch to synthetic at the very first oil change on all my vehicles, including the motorcycles - the exception is the wife's VW TDI that has synthetic oil right from the factory..

I believe that oil is oil and if you use the correct grade that your vehicle's owner's manual calls for and change it when you are supposed to it does not matter. Seems your experience validates that notion.

What is synthetic oil made from?????

BTW, there are just Two (that I know of) REAL synthetics (Group IV) on the marget. Mobil One and Royal Purple. The rest are a mix.

Synthetic dinosaurs



Mike

Another friend of mine, a 3rd generation "shade tree" mechanic says, "go ahead and use that expensive stuff, I'm sticking with grandpa and the dollar store oil".

Both of our cars call for synthetic mobile 1 from the factory, so that's what they get.

All synthetic oil does is lighten your wallet.
Regular oil is fine.
Synthetic used to be far superior years ago, now not so much.
Conventional oil has come along way.
The secret (trick) is to change it !

This we both do religiously (almost)!

While that might be ok with US made vehicles, some of the German autos - especially those having the excellent TDI diesels - have very specific requirements re: oil manufacturers, weights etc., and if you do not use an oil that's on their list you may have some seriously expensive engine repairs in your future - along with an invalidated warranty (don't even think about Mag./Moss law).

FWIW...

IS there any truth to staying with synthetic once you switch? I run what ever is on sale, synthetic or conventional.

331,000 on a 94 Camry & no oil consumption....

532,000 of an 88 4Runner * no oil consumption...

20 to 25 thousand mile oil changes... and 3,300 mile filter changes...* 3 times every 10K....\\

Mobil One user....both of them.. along with the other family vehicles...43 to 175K on those cars...

THIS

Hey, if the dollar store oil has the same viscosity and API ratings as the name brand, I don't really see a problem with it. I've never used oil from a dollar store but have used O'Reilly's store brand without issue. Obviously, these retail places don't have their own refinery so they are getting the oil from one of the major oil companies who put it in a bottle with the retailer's name on it.

Some motorheads get worked up over this stuff like we get worked up over guns, calibers, bullets, etc. I'm not talking sythetic vs conventional but Castrol vs Quaker State, etc. Its laughable to me. Just use whatever the owner's manual in your car says to use. If it calls for synthetic use it.

IMO, it doesnt matter what type of oil you use(except for warranty issues) as long as its quality oil. As far as switching at some point in time, it doesnt matter. Both dino and synthetic both have similar additives so no worries on seals and gaskets. Unless youre doing specific sample analysis before and after you switch, youll not know theres a difference. Unless there is a negative impact, which youll find out too late. As mileage adds up(over100k) and tolerances change, you can go with the next higher viscosity, but again, unless youre doing special sample analysis, you have zero clue whats happening in youre engine anyhow.

Personally, I stick with one oil for the life of the engine. Dino, Shell Rotella, or synthetic, Quaker State Ultimate Durability. Again, IMO, there is no need for a Group IV(amsoil, royal purple, etc.) unless youre vehicles specifically calls out for Group IV for warranty purposes.

If you dont follow Bobistheoilguy, or youre not mechanically inclined, chances are you have no clue what tolerances, add packs, or oil groups are, and its not going to matter what you pour in your engine.

We have been using Synthetic oils in our gas and diesel pickup fleet for 25+ years.
Besides increased change intervals, synthetics are the best to have in your crankcase in extreme conditions.

Youre the type of person that would benefit from learning more. Two bottles same viscosity and API, can yield TOTALLY different outcomes. Not just in engine life but gas mileage as well. And for the record, just because(for example) Brad Penn and Kendall come from the same refinery doesnt mean theyre the same product. Not even close.

The Porsche was delivered with Mobil 1 and that is what it gets. The trucks and Suburban get conventional and the old Mach 1 gets Valvoline VR-1. I am pretty certain that Redline oil is fully synthetic.

As far as I'm aware, only synthetics have zero grade oil whi ch is a major plus for getting your vehicle started at minus 40.This can be a huge benefit to your health and welfare if for a wilderness generator with limited cranking power.

Dad owned a garage in West Texas, a dusty climate. He was adamant about frequent oil changes, and generally changed the oil every 1000 miles or 3 months. I've relaxed a bit since those days, but I also drive more, too.

I've used Mobil 1 since Ford starting using overhead cam engines, and have had good service. Of course now the 04 has some noisy timing chain issues, with 175k on it, but that's a known issue with early 5.4L engines.

The new truck has the Ecoboost turbo, so it too gets synthetic oil, to help prevent any coking issues on the turbo. It just had its 3rd oil change with 14k on it. I went in with AmsOil synthetic, which supposedly has the best anti-friction additives you can get.

Old time mechanic told me years ago that brand doesn't matter (Pennsylvania vs. Texas oil... paraffin vs. non-paraffin), just don't change brands once you start using one or the other (kinda like "seasoning" on a cast iron skillet... add it... tear it off... add it... gunk has to go somewhere and change your oil OFTEN.

With that said and with all the fancy additives in oil now-a-days... Rotella in my diesels and old Landcruiser.

Mobil 1 regular on the wife's Prius and Mobil 1 Gold on the minivan which had an unknown oil consumption dilemma when we bought it with 150k miles.

If any of my engines ever fail me over an oil issue I will be disappointed. I expect 400k+ miles out of a gasoline engine every time. 600k+ out of my Cummins 12 valves.

Usually the demise of a vehicle for us is an accident or rust... or unjustifiable cost repairs

That Sir is an excellent point.

I use Amsoil in every one of three trucks and one car, both engine and differentials. However, I also use extended change intervals and used oil analysis (UOA) to determine when, if ever, the oil needs changing.

My GMC DuraMax diesel truck is also fitted with a dual bypass oil filter system. The extra filtration does not necessarily protect the engine, rather it protects the oil, limiting the amount of abrasive particulates. Both the DuraMax and my newer GMC Sierra 1500 with a 4.8L V-8 are filled with 5W-30 Amsoil Series 3000 HD Diesel Oil. The others use Amsoil 20W-50 Synthetic Premium Protection Motor Oil as one is 37 years old, and the other 35 years old with high miles.

A 12 quart case of the Amsoil Series 3000 HDDO costs $93.75 with my discount, or $7.81 per quart. One case is required for an oil change on the DuraMax with the dual bypass filter system.

Synthetic oil has two properties that outperform dino oil, it keeps particulates in suspension, i.e. diesel soot, which improves filtration, and it resists high temperature shear and oxidation better.

However, if the vehicle owner is not considering using extended change intervals and/or UOA, there is no justification for using synthetic oil. Using any quality brand of the correct specification oil as recommended by the manufacturer will provide all the lubrication needed. A more important consideration is the oil filter, only high quality synthetic blend media filters should be used, i.e. Amsoil, AC Delco, Baldwin, Bosch, FleetGuard, MotorCraft (RACOR), Mobil 1, NAPA Gold, Purolator PureONE or Synthetic, RACOR, Wix.

More info than you want: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ Click on the oil Forum button and go crazy.

My 2013 Honda CR-V is built for synthetic oil and that's what it gets. Synthetic oil does let the rig start and run better in the winter and the oil doesn't seem to have any problems in the summer.

I think the bigger problem is when to change the oil. Supposedly the synthetic will let you go as long as 12,000 miles between changes. Most techs I've talked to say in Montana 5,000 to 6,000 tops if you are not towing a trailer. I tend to change around 4,000 miles or less. I don't tow a trailer.

Since I tend to push my motors hard, even racing my HD Motorcycle if the race day happens to fall on a day that I am feeling OK, AND because I cannot afford to replace any of the auto's or motors I see good quality synthetic oils along with an occasional PTFE treatment (slick 50, T-Plus, whichever one is available when I get the mind to re-treat) gives me some peace of mind and is doing all that I know to do, along with good filters etc. to make sure my motors and cars and HArley run strong for as long as possible.

Like Wrangler John, I went back to Amsoil series 3000 deisel oil. I used this oil in my 05 Duramax. I went with extended oil changes and changed Amsoil filter every 15k. The first time I went with extended oil changes the oil test said the oil was still good at 46k. I changed it anyway cause I felt it did it's job. The next time I went 39k and it was still good but, again how much do you want out of 10qts of oil. Oxidation was a little high so out it went. Before I went with extended oil changes I was still using Amsoil with 15k changes though... I went back to Amsoil 3000 last week for $112 dollar oil change. Kind of high since Shell Rotella 10w30 worked fine and I changed it according to my oil change warning. I went 12k and 10k oil change intervals and think that is real good for $ 3.50 a qt oil. The reason I am going back to Amsoil is cause my new dealer lives fairly close and he seemed to give me a price break to some degree. The main reason though is it got so darn cold here last winter with the 10w 30 dino I noticed a harder start with the deisel. I have nothing against dino or syth but am convinced the Amsoil 3000 is some very good stuff. I also have said on this sight and other sights, we change oil much more often than needed. I have no issues with any of my cars or truck. Truck has 207k, Dodge Stratus has 137k and I change it about every 10-12k with dino. Sunfire had 178k on it and went 30k changes most of the time with syn and 10 -12 k with dino. I have never had an issue with this method and keep my cars till they die. Not trying ot convince anyone to switch, just my experiences about oil. ALso, air and oil filters are ver important in keeping oil clean.

From my past experiences I would not change to synthetic after 30k on the engine because it may start to use oil when it didn't before. That was over 20 years ago so things may have changed. Synthetic oil keeps your engine cleaner and doesn't break down from heat as easily as crude based oil. I'm a fan of synthetic lubricants.

I've had a couple of times, that I have had times I have done experiments, to test oils.. particularly when an engine or vehicle is up there in miles or was picked up cheap...

In the picked up cheap dept, back around 2000, I picked up an 88 Prelude, exterior and interior were immaculate.. it had exactly 100K on it... and price was $2500.. was putting heavy miles on a car at the time, making trips from here up to Portland and Seattle three or 4 weeks out of the month, and those were honest little 35 mpg jalopies...

Put 4 new Michelins on it, gave it a tune up and radiator flush, pulled the valve cover to look at the top end of the engine...
Looked like someone had just paved it with asphalt....

Took an old spoon I picked up at Good Will, and cleaned out the big spots as best I could... figured 'oh what the hell', engine experiment car....Filled it up with Mobil One OW-40, and figured this was going to be its only oil change, and I was going to run t until the engine blew and see how long that would take us...

Gave it a filter change every 5 K, and added as needed, which turned out to be just adding the little that changing the filter took out....previous life, it had been owned by some chick, bought new in 88 and had an oil change once a year.... 10W30 Pennzoil...( no less)..

Highway miles mainly, but plenty of those were 2 lane Oregon Mountain roads and it is a fun little zippy car, so it tended to get ran hard at times...which doesn't seem to phase a Honda...

one year and 40,000 miles later, buddy is getting divorced and needs a car real bad.... one that gets good gas mileage.. and wanted something he called "sporty".. so he is badgering me to sell him the Prelude...non stop...

he has a budget of $2500, and offers me that. I let him know that is what I paid for it a year before, and 40,000 miles ago..,
he still is begging me.... so I finally give in and let him have it for $2500...

Del is a mechanical idiot, so I have a little pity on him, so I give it a fresh tune up..do a break job on it, flush the radiator, and give it an oil change...since the oil has been in there 40,000 miles...

I pull the valve cover, just to see what it looks like under there now...since it still is using no oil, despite the 40K on the Mobil One...

I was shocked and pleasantly surprised... ALL of that sludge and crap that had been there, after I cleaned up what I could, was ALL LONG GONE! the upper end of the engine was totally clean...

I knew Mobil ONE was good stuff, but that impressed me further...

I threw Mobil One back in there ( new oil change), and typical Del.. he never changes the oil on it, no filter or nothing...

gave it to him with a little over 140K on it, his 20 year old son totals it, just after it had a little over 200K on it...racing someone, going over the mountains on I 5 in winter with snow all over the place...California raised kid.. big surprise...racing on packed snow... and rear ends a semi...

Insurance company gave Del $4K for it...sad end to a good little car....but kids and idiots get ahold of them, they're days are numbered anyway...

but that Mobil One OW40 sure did its job and then some...

I bought a 2008 Toyota Highlander earlier this year. It was the last year in which regular oil (5W20) was standard. My wife's newer Lexus has essentially the same engine and came standard with 0W20 synthetic. When mine needs its first oil change, I'll go with full synthetic.

Now that I'm retired, I only drive about 5,000 miles a year (Yeah, that shocked me, too!) so I figure a filter change a year and the occasional top-off ought to last me a good long time.

only run synthetic, in my GMC, boat and snowmachines


the trucks that are garaged in the winter get dino oil


cold weather and instant oil pressure are a good thing for moving metal parts ime

along with Royal Purple and Mobil 1, believe Amsoil synthetic makes the grade as a true synthetic.


if I lived in a more temperate climate I'd most likely run all dino

on the flip side to the above.. my 94 Camry has 331K on it now..

at 310K I decide to do another one of my 'what if' experiments...

instead of Mobil One, as usual, I decided to see what a long drain period of 20,000 miles would do, using 15W40 Diesel Truck oil would do..

So I did a change with Mobil DelVac 15W40 from Walmart.. I use Purlalor filters from Walmart also... so from 310K to 330K, I ran that, changing the filter every 3300 miles...

vehicle got a lot of highway miles during that period...but analysis sent in with 20K on the Delvac 15W40 came back as the oil was still good, and could be ran longer....

pulled the valve cover on the 4 cylinder in the car, and the top of the engine had no sludge or varnish that built up over that period at all...

I did note that with the heavier conventional oil, the engine didn't quite run as smooth as it did with synthetic, or warm up as quickly on colder days... but at least the heavy duty high detergent diesel oil did a good job...

changing those filters I think helps extend the life of oil quite a bit, especially on the conventional oil....

now experimenting with running low viscosity 5W20 in it during the warm weather and see how that holds up... admit to having half filled with Walmart Synthetic 5W20 and half with their regular dino Walmart 5W20... real close to 2,000 miles on it, as the car will probably roll over 332K this week...

but so far, with 90s and 100 degree temps, the engine hasn't gone thru any of the real light oil so far...which surprises me on an older engine and older vintage...but I am noticing the better fuel mileage as claimed on Bob the Oil Guy's Web Site..

so when I drop this oil at the next change...I'll probably go with a fill of Mobil One high mileage 5W20...I trust the synthetic light weight oil much more than I do conventional..

but hey, it isn't like conventional oil is bad or anything, its just synthetic Mobil One has been sooooo much better...

Every 3500 miles .......dino oil> april till oct ....then the fake stuff the balance/winter (all shell rotalla)... chevy duramax with eight thousand + hours and 98,thousand miles..

Take a typical plastic jug of 10 30 motor oil. Chill it to minus 45 and then tip it over and try to get the contents out. You will need to stand on the container. Reminds me of trying to get the last drop of tooth paste out of the tube.

I run Mobil 1 in all the vehicles, cars get changed at 10k, the cummins in the truck at 15k with filter change at 7500.

Synthetic isn't any more expensive when you get double the mileage out of it vs. dino. Another thing to consider is oil is much more than the base stock, it's the additives that make a big difference in how the oil performs over the long term.

As far as switching from dino to synthetic, there could an issue with some engines with the seals, but that hasn't been my experience. Both the cars have always run mobil 1 and have always gone through a quart or two per 10k, though one has 120k and the other 210k on the odo. On the truck I changed the factory oil at 1k, ran chevron delo for 7500, and have been running mobil 1 ever since. 112k on the odo and doesn't burn a drop.

Oil is the lifeblood of an engine, I can't imagine not using the best.

This^

I like knowing that when it's extremely cold out, the synthetic oil in my crankcase isn't congealed into a slow-moving lump of tar. Synthetics tend to flow better at low temps and are less likely to breakdown at high temps, like when I'm towing 10K at 98F.

there is a reason for the using oil though like you said this was an issue 20 years ago more than now, and the reason was also in your post....the Jeep addicts tend to swear on using synthetic on high mileage old Jeep engines but the first thing they tell you is when you make the switch be prepared to change some seals and gaskets if it starts leaking....the reason? the detergents in synthetic are more effective than dino and its gonna clean out alot of junk including the junk that may have been plugging any small holes in the seals....

course this is less of an issue in making the switch in newer engines since seals and gaskets are much better now but its something to be aware of if your making the switch in a high mileage engine, especially an older one...

I gotta admit, after 15 plus years in Minnesota, I make sure I don't have to live somewhere, that I'd have to deal with that type of weather anymore...

That's my opinion as well, excepting that would run synth in turbos. Outside of that, am unconvinced it makes any difference in a car/truck engine as long as it's changed regularly/when indicated.

Local friend bought a new Jeep Grand Cherokee a few years ago, but went with Mobil 0W40 oil at its first needed oil change...

it promptly starting pissing it out.. he tried several other synthetics.. same results...

he wasn't real impressed with Jeep's "Quality"....

he traded it in on an Acura MDX....problems solved...

I bought a new truck last year. Ram 1500 w/ the Hemi. I decide to run Amsoil in it. Time will tell. My previous truck was a Nissian Titan 2004 vintage. After break in I ran Mobile one. After 10 years it ran strong w/o any oil burning etc. I spent some time studying the oils available now and everything I could find said Amsoil or Royal Purple. You can run Amsoil a long time if you use there filter so a bit more cost up front vs. fewer oil changes. So far so good. In the past, I ran regualer oils in all my vehicles without issue. As many before have said......change often. I know the military runs oil a long time and just changes filters. I would think they would know. Just my .02$ worth. goodshot

Mobil is only real synthetic if you buy their extended performance line.

I ran my 92 Toyota v6 pickup for 386,000km on 10 k oil changes with Pennzoil syn 10w30 up to about 200,000, the Mobil1 to when I gave it away. Only oil it ever used, was what it leaked out of the valve cover. Still going strong on a farm. Was never plugged in, started at -40F no issues.
The 09 Tacoma manual says 8,000km oil changes on their semi-syn oil, 5w20. So, I put in Mobil1 5w20 at 10,000km, 10k changes since then, at 135,000km now.
The cold weather starting is what convinced me. It will turn over no sweat, rattles a hair at -40F for a few seconds, but, it goes, no questions asked.

THIS - in spades..

I can start my diesel in -30F and not have to worry about the engine getting lubricated right away.. Makes a HUGE difference in longevity, IMHO, not only on the engine, but the starter unit as well (not having to crank over a very stiff engine).. And oil analysis reports I get on every change have, so far, backed me up..

added: I use Mobil-1 in the truck..

My 97 Jimmy 4.3 with 130k on it leaks like a sieve with syn oil, as did my 95' Cherokee w/4.0 prior to that.

Changed back to dino oil, leaks went away.

I've read the reason is the molecules on syn oil are very consistent in size (small) whereas molecule sizes in dino oil vary greatly, so dino oil is not as apt to squeeze past seals.

If true, I suspect syn oil is getting into every nook and crany in the engine, faster and better, than dino. Add in superior temperature protection, on both ends, and syn oil is all I'll use.

I'll be one of the few dissenters on this subject. My dad and I was/is in the fuel and lube wholesale business for over 45 years. We have had dozens and dozens of 1/2T PU's over those years, and we run all on conventional oil, preferably Valvoline. Our conclusion, in our own fleet was that if routine maintenance is done, synthetics are not necessary. Many of these trucks ran over 200k, and one over 330k, with nary an engine problem, ever due to lubrication, on and off road (oilfield). Conventional oils are especially good nowadays.

I've had this chat several times with my mechanic. We're both of the mind that it wouldn't make much difference in our area, if regular change intervals were employed.

Were I to live further North, however, I'd probably go with the synthetic for better protection in cold starts.

FC

Guys will argue motor oil like we argue calibers on here but the one thing that I am fairly certain of is the performance of the synthetic differential products. We have actually burned up quick-change rear ends a couple of times on race cars and the synthetic rear end oil that remained was in far better shape than the metal. The spacer/bushing that stands the top gear off was left off once allowing the gear to walk back and forth on the shaft and chew itself up. Burnt everything all to hell, but could have strained the metal out of the syn. 90w and used it again.

I've known people that had that issue with GM. Chrysler and Ford made products...each time they had a simple solution...

if the valve covers start leaking after 130,000 miles... try replacing the gasket.. that seemed to work pretty good...

on another note...these high mileage oils, actually work pretty good...case in point... I have a mower that the engine is starting to burn oil... to the tune of it holds 20 ounces of oil... run thru a tank of gas and you have to add another 4 to 5 ounces of 30 wt to it to bring it back up...

so my thought was since its going, just run drain oil from the cars thru it...had a jug of MobilOne 5W20 High Mileage, that I drained out of one of my wife's friends car with 12,500 miles on it.....so I just drained out the 30 wt and put that in there...

now it takes 5 tanks of fuel thru the mower engine, before I have to add 3 ounces to bring it back up to full level...

I thought that worked out pretty well...plus having 108 ounces of oil to add to the mower.. I'm pretty stocked up...plus it isn't smoking when it runs either..

The additive packages are basically the same, but synthetics have several advantages over conventional oil, Since it is a synthesized manufactured oil (from conventional oil stock), it's molecular structure is more uniform and flows easier at low temperature and reduces wear. It is also more tolerant of high temperature (so it is less likely to oxidize). All-in-all, it is a better oil product - whether you need it or not, that's your call.

I switched to Mobil One at 200,000 mile on my Toyota Tundra. Now at 220,000. It doesn't make sense, but I'd swear it is shifting a little smoother...

Having run dino oil for years in my Chevy truck, then switching to Mobil 1, we can sure tell a distinct difference in how easily it starts in the winter. I'll stay with synthetic for my climate.

I have a 2013 tundra.....I just made the last payment on yesterday. I am switching to Mobil One. Maybe it will shift a little smoother.

Mobil 1 is cheaper for me to run in my pickup, a 2002 Tundra 4.7L V8, with 10,000 mile oil change intervals. I switched to synthetic at 30,000 miles. It is still pretty clean looking after about a year, and doesn't burn any significant amount of oil now at 135,000.

My 2004 Suburban 5.3L has burned a quart every 1500 miles since about 100,000. Needless to say I run conventional now in that engine.

I have been using Mobil One for years.

If you have to deal with bi-annual Smog checks like I do here in California, synthetic oil is your friend. 'Smog Check' before last I squeaked by only .01 on hydrocarbons.
The smog tech suggested I switch to syn before next check, so I did & passed with .15 cushion on the last one.
And I was still running the same old plugs from previous check.

All synthetic all the time here. Change filter and add a quart every 5k, change everything at 10 - 12K. Probably overkill. For gearboxes and trans also.

I run RP in the Ram 3500 Cummns, changing oil at 10,000, filter at 5. Same price breakdown as dino with half the hassle, and better cold weather operation.

Can't hurt.

Until the temperature drops, then the far superior characteristics of synthetic become apparent.

Synthetic will still flow at 40 Below. Dino turns into a congealed mass and is little better even with a heat pad on the oil pan.

I learned the hard way. Nowadays I run Castrol Syntec or Titanium or whatever the hell it's called these days. I noticed the absence of the drag on my starter when doing cold starts.

Bingo! 'Cept I go 15K between oil changes and filter but use a Napa Platinum filter.

amen

I don't go a long on oil changes but I do add some ZDDP about half way through my oil change interval


sold my 98n Infiniti at 320,000 and it's still going.

All I use is that expensive Super Tech full synthetic from Walmart made by Warren Performance Products (WWP) on bottom of plastic jug. $17 for 5 quart container. Works for me.

Well damn. 7 pages and the debate rages on. It looks like the 'fire is split as well. I guess I could be a good son and tell Dad he wins. He loves to tell me "I told you so". But then that would be giving in. He also taught me to "stand your ground"! Ha! I could always punt...

Conventional motor oils have made some significant improvements in recent years--the difference between conventional vs most synthetics is currently much smaller.

Ya' got a choice: Conventional motor oils carry heat away better than synthetics. Synthetics have less friction.

There are several oils out there labeled as "Full Synthetic" that are not pure synthetic. Mobil One is among those. It is highly refined with synthetic packages added and meets the Group IV requirements here in the US, but allegedly not in other countries like Japan.

Changing the oil frequently is best.......

Casey

In the eastern half of the US, Super Tech full synthetic is manufactured in the same plant as Mobil One. That doesn't mean it has the same additive packages though.

A while back Super Tech beat Mobil One in one of those internet friction tests. I can't speak to the veracity of the test though.....

I use both Mobil One and Super Tech in various vehicles.

Casey

Mobil one, Napa platinum. You can switch to synthetic no matter how many miles on the motor. But as noted earlier may have oil leaks.

This......

Many new vehicles come with synthetic from the factory now. My new Toyota does.

I've used it in a Ford Sport Trac since the vehicle was new and now has 190k+ miles with nothing done to the engine. The F150 before that had sythetic it's full life until I sold it with 170K. I won't use anything else.

But the hunting is amazing. Id settle for a job that lets me sit on the couch after -25.

If ya want to,, a guy can use deisel motor oil in a gas motor. They have the S rating on all the deisel oils I've seen. Has a bit better additive package for the guys who like to extend their oil change intervals a bit without going synthetic. Not that I care.

Already admitted to being a Mobil One user in all of my vehicles...but I end up doing maintenance on other vehicles that usually belong to single mothers, with kids in our scout troop...

Conventional oil has come a long way, that is for sure over the last 15 to 20 years...and if filters are changed routinely, and not ran over 5K ( not talking trucks with huge filters) conventional oil can be changed at 10,000 mile intervals ( or under 12 months)...

As said by Ihookem, using Diesel rated oil is even better than gas conventional oil....I did run an experiment on my older Camry, and ran Mobil Diesel 15W40 for 20,000 miles, with filter changes at 3300 miles....sent it away to be analyzed and it came back as still usable..lot of that is highway miles just to point that out...took the valve cover off and looked at the head... it was not built up with Sludge...at all...

regardless of how often, oil is changed or not, I think the key for longer drains is that filter change more frequently than 5K miles.....I run Purolators, which are $3.25 at Walmart...

even tho I am sure most folks will have zero problems running regular oil in an engine and getting 250 K out of a motor, I still think when push comes to shove, synthetic will still run longer between drains, and it will also still make an engine last longer than conventional oil... which is longer than MOST folks will run a vehicle.. and if you are in a snow belt, your vehicles body will go before the engine ever will....

but synthetics still, are quicker to lube the top end of an engine as the temps get colder, especially way below zero...

they will also keep lubing better than conventional oil when the temp gets real hot out...

and I'll admit, I'd trust a synthetic 0W20 or 5W20 long before I'd trust a conventional oil of that weight, when outside temps are a 100 degrees, and you are sitting in traffic, with your A/C cranked...

and if you are using a conventional oil, if you add a quart of synthetic of the same weight, it will definitely enhance the conventional oils abilities to protect, especially under load, high heat and low temp starting...

but if you are running a synthetic oil, adding a quart of conventional oil, is not going to enhance a darn thing...

the differences in cost, and drain intervals.. one has to figure out where they want to spend their money....I admit, the guys who run synthetic, yet change it every 3,000 miles, might as well be running conventional oil...all you are doing is wasting your money....

but hey, I am talking from the point of a guy running Toyotas.. not a super car, or something exotic...

but there also has to be a reason more and more engine manufacturers are specifying synthetic oil, vs conventional....

and a definite reason Aircraft engine manufacturers recommend synthetic vs conventional...

It was in the 20's the other morning and one of the old JD loaders spun over pretty slow.... Good batteries, just always been a toad when it comes to starting even remotely chilly.



Long story short it gets started every morning during the winter and we don't have a heated shop.


Very curious if it would hurt to switch to synthetic during the cold months?

Been running 15-40 Rotella in the summer and 10-30 during winter. Currently we know it's time to change the oil as soon as it shows low on the dipstick. Typically it takes 100 hours before it burns any oil.


Easier cold weather starting would be really, really nice.

I was running mobil one but switched to napa brand synthetic you can get it with a NAPA gold oil filter cheaper than the mobil one oil alone..........NAPA oil is made by Ashland oil refinery the same people who make Valvoline......

I run Mobil 1 in my F150 (190k miles); just changed the GF's Expedition oil to high mileage Mobil 1 (180k, 10k overdue on the last change and ~3 quarts low - yikes!) 5w-20 in both; 10w-40 in the CJ7's 258, usually Pennzoil, but I hate that motor and really want to do a V8 swap.

Sure ya can Sam...

but if you are a fence hanger, I can pass on from many years dealing with MN temps...mixing something like a couple of quarts of Mobil One OW30 or so, with regular 10W30, will definitely lower its pour point, or the temps it will crank...

ever tried an oil dipstick heater?

I use to have a VW Diesel Wagon back in the early 80s...before I switched to synthetic....It said to use 10W30 in the winter...but it had to sit out ( so my wife could have the garage for her car).. so I got it an oil dipstick heater from NAPA, a Battery Blanket and an Oil Frost Plug Heater... all went into a 3 prong plug in front..

even at 30 below, or colder ( with a 70/30 mix of Diesel # One and Diesel #2) I'd hit the glow plug on that little buzzard first thing in the morning at 6AM, and it never failed to fire up, no matter how slow she cranked....I'd let it run an hour, while I had breakfast and took a shower, then unplugged it and headed off to work... where at times, it was cold enough, I just locked it up and let it idle all day...

The coldest it ever had to set out was one time at 50 below up in North Dakota ( according to the weather service report), but those heaters, still allowed it to fire up...

synthetic added to the mix would have made it even easier...

that oil dipstick heater, was only $4 or $5 in those days...

Valvoline Synthetic is a group 3 oil, as is NAPA which is the same oil...

"My GMC DuraMax diesel truck is also fitted with a dual bypass oil filter system. The extra filtration does not necessarily protect the engine, rather it protects the oil, limiting the amount of abrasive particulates." [b][/b]

"The extra filtration does not necessarily protect the engine"

What? What's exactly what a bypass filter does. It filters out the particles that are large enough to cause wear. I put a bypass filter on my Dodge diesel when I switched to Amsoil at 40K. I also added a FILTERMAG RA365 at the same time. I wish I had put the FILTERMAG on it when it was new but I didn't know such a thing existed. It should have trapped some of the ferrous metal during the break in. I used synthetic oil on my old '78 Chevy PU that I drove from 1978 to 1999 (21 years). I sold it to a friend who is still using it as his deer lease truck.

I only read about half of this thread but change intervals are the most important as long as the correct viscosity is used. Oil gets "dirty" especially in rural and dusty condition before it wears out. You city slickers may see a benefit from syn oils. I use dino oil and change it depending on the conditions with great luck. Only exception is my new truck which requires a blend to keep the warranty valid. That's my advice running ATV's to cars to heavy equipment over the years.

If there is electric near the tractor, this is your huckleberry, Sam.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/magnetic-heater

I try to make sure all of the single moms are serviced with the natural stuff.

My experience, for what it is worth. I have six vehicles, currently, all gas. I usually buy my vehicles slightly used, 3 to 5 years old, and then keep them for ten to twenty years.

My late father was an ASME Engineer and Air Force pilot that did some research work with Mobil-1 oil in about the late 60's. Based on what he learned he switched to using Mobil-1 exclusively in all his gas engines. My two brothers and I did the same. He claimed that M-1 oil did not evaporate, did not break down, did not "coke" and did not wear out, as opposed to traditional petroleum oils that did all the above. He said that the synthetic oil kept a film on the metal indefinitely and did not run off like petroleum oil, eventually leaving metal bare and subject to corrosion and start-up wear. He said Mobil-1 was developed for military jet engines that not only subjected oil to very high temperatures in some of their turbine bearings that ran at 30,000 rpm, but would also function adequately in jet engines that would be routinely shut down and cold-soaked (B-52s), sometimes for hours, at high altitude where the temperature is a constant -50 degrees and then be restarted again later in the mission. He said the only reason to change synthetic oil was to get rid of the accumulation of dirt and contaminants that collected over time.

We initially started out changing the oil filter every six months, and the oil once a year, regardless of mileage. Mileage varied from a few thousand miles to just over 20,000 miles a couple of times, per year, in our various vehicles. Opening a couple of filters convinced us to forego the six-month change of the filter. For almost 40 years we have just changed the oil and filter once a year.

We have never had a filter or oil caused problem. My dad and brothers have never used any particular filter, just whatever was available. Several years ago I read a credible recommendation for Napa Gold filters, so I usually use them (now Napa Platinum when available). We never had an engine wear out and several of the vehicles had over 250,000 on them when we got rid of them. We have just never kept a vehicle past 287,000 miles, that I can recall. My brother still has the '64 Ford pick-up running on his farm that he bought in 1967. The engine has never been re-built. He broke the odometer cable while off-roading in 1971 and never replaced it, so its mileage is unknown. It hasn't been licensed for the road in years, just used on the farm.

I don't have the knowledge to endorse a particular filter, but I am a die-hard, loyal fan of Mobil-1 synthetic oil. Other synthetic oils may well be just as good, or even better than Mobil-1, but I know it is certainly good enough for me.
_________________________

Commercial Fishing winter of '91--truck parked at landing for 4 days at -48 at night--nearest plug-in at least a hundred a miles away. 2 pieces of 6-inch stove pipe with elbow and a propane tiger torch --place elbow under oil pan and let run for 30 minutes--keep an eye on it so you don't set the whole thing on fire and watch the wiring.
Switched to Mobile 1 oil--I'm sure that tiger torch is around here somewhere but it could take days to find it.

Sam, if you put synthetic in it you will notice a difference. 10w30 Shell rotella's pour point is 30 below zero. After that it is mostly grease. I'm sure you have started it when it was that cold. The pour point for Shell T6 ( 5w40) is 42 below and the Amsoil series 3000 5w30 has a pour point of 58 below zero. This is why my deisel truck ( Duramax) and my little Kubota tractor starts noticably better when it gets cold.

Keep it fresh, keep it clean. As long as it's API approved with the correct Gasoline, Diesel rating, it makes no difference.

Unless one is obsessive compulsive..

Thanks for the info, I'll check and see what kind of a deal our local CARQUEST can come up with.


In the cold weather we always have a gallon of 10-30w warmed up in the pickup or in the house. Little thick at -20 or -40!

Yes it does - when it can get down to more than -20F below zero.. I've seen oil being added from a 1 qt plastic container of 10-30 that had been in the unheated garage and the temp was that cold.. Let's just say it took quite a while to empty that container; imagine how long that near-grease can get to the top of your engine and lube it before metal begins to flake off..

Down south people won't get that issue... But up here in the northland owners best use a product that will flow easily at sub-zero temps..

FWIW

Ford did a long term durability test of oils back in the early 80's. The net result, then, was that Mobil 1 was the superior product. Believe that the real difference was their additive package.
It was noted that, at the time, most oil filters were so inefficient, when combined with full synthetic, that they only added a little extra capacity to the equation.
About 2 decades later, another long term durability comparison was performed. The net of this was that Mobil 1 was still top of the heap, but many of the competitors had gotten much better. Again, it was the additive package that gave Mobil 1 the edge.
I have been "out of the loop" for the last 15 years or so, but would guess the trend has continued.
As a side commentary, most every engineer that had access to the these studies switched near every engine they owned over to Mobil.
There were pretty strong indications that in typical cars, once a year or every 25,000 miles is adequate. I haven't had an engine problem in nearly 40 years, a bunch of cars, thru 3 teenagers, following this practice.

Lee, that's the only thing keeping me from moving to your part of the country to be with family.. I was there in the coldest days of last year. I don't know if the oil froze but I do however know that my ass did

Everyone has spoken of max mileage between oil changes, what about max time? I have an '06 GTO that only gets ~3000 miles per year. Its had synthetic from day one per the manual. How often should I change the oil?

one of our cars, that the wife drives...the Mobil One oil can be in there for 2 to 3 years.... in the last 20 years, that has not presented any problems or sludge etc...she always gets the new car, and I take over the old one....and ran cars she passed to me 150 to 200 K more...so no long term problems..

back in Minnesota, when it got real cold overnight and I forgot to plug the car in, I'd jack the car up and drop the oil plug...go out 30 minutes later, put the plug back in the oil pan, and take the container of oil into the house....

15 minutes later, go back and pour it into the engine and hit the key and it would start right up...

also did that to the ambulance at the Troop Clinic up at Camp Ripley, when I ran the Clinic there, when they were doing ski school training.. no frost plug heater on it.. had to do that several times when it was 35 below or so...

10W30 doesn't flow real well at those temps... but it still is fluid enough to drop thru an oil plug, even if like taffy...

but take the oil in a warm building, and 10 to 15 minutes, it thins out quickly and pour it right back into the engine and she'll fire right up..

It depends on how the car is driven and how it is stored. If you're mostly making short trips where the engine never gets up to full temp, and if you're storing it outside where you get lots of temp swings I'd lean towards changing it annually, or at most every other year. The more frequent changes aren't an issue of the oil breaking down sooner, but rather wanting to get moisture out of the crank case.

If however you're getting enough longer trips in to get the engine up to temp and store it in a heated garage I'd stick with the factory recommended change intervals.

Or add supplemental heaters.

Not or, and

Stored in an attached garage. Driven 8 mile each way commute ~ 4 days per week. Occasional 0-60 hard acceleration, no sustained hard driving.

I'd check the oil filler cap and see if you are getting any buildup of the additives. I know in my wife and kids car in the winter when they don't get up to temp the oil filler cap looks like it's been coated with a glob of tan mayonnaise. Unfortunately we put so many miles on our cars, even at a 10k interval I'm changing oil annually on all of our cars.

If it were my GTO (assuming 10k intervals) I'd change it at least every other year just in the interest of getting as much moisture as possible out of the crankcase. Maybe it's unnecessary, but if you do your own changes oil and filter is ~$50 and I'd feel better babying it.

Back in the day, I would take some old oil, put it in a pan with a rag for a wick. I'd light it and stick it under the oil pan. It lasted 10 min or so and warmed the engine up enough for it to start. Just in case one of you guys get a truck that won't start , it's a good idea.

That's a dangerous suggestion.

An engine could catch on fire with a flame burning under it!

Engines have oil on them that burns and fuel in and on them that burns!

LMAO... And last year wasn't that cold - it just never quit snowing and there was no "January thaw" (or similar).. On some years I've cleared the driveway with the tractor and the temps were -30F + some stiff winds.. THAT'll make the hair grow on yer azz... Oh, and I don't have a cab on my tractor..

I think every truck sold here in this part of the country comes with a block heater.. Not sure about cars - I'd have to ask.. I plug the truck in when temps drop to -10 or lower, and it's in a garage - not left outside.. Fires up without a burp - and I really don't even have to plug it in, but it makes it easier on the engine and starter to do so..

Synthetic motor oil has a superior borderline pumping temperature over mineral based oil.

That means that the engines oil pump will pump it faster, at a lower temperature, over other oils.

That is reason enough to use it.

The engine on one of our cars requires synthetic oil and I use it.

On the other car I use Ford's semi synthetic 5w-20 as specified.

WTF are you talking about? Did you just pull that sentence out of your azz?

My '02 Sierra 1/2 ton with the small V8 just went over 313,000 miles. Bought it with 70,000 miles, took out the 1/2 ton springs and put in 3/4 springs, registered it for 8,000 and pulled trailers through the city for 7 years as a contractor until last summer. Same engine and transmission. Conventional 5w30 engine oil. Usually Mobil or sometimes Shell. Never write anything down but change the oil and filter about every 3,000 miles or so. Drop the transmission pan once a year and change that filter and replace the fluid lost in the process. I plan on getting over 400,000 on it.

Maybe I'll try synthetic this winter after reading through this thread. It does start hard at -20 to -30.

Big thing is I probably got lucky on this particular vehicle. Otherwise I think letting them sit is the kiss of death and I try to drive it every day...and I don't drive it like a total idiot so that probably adds engine life too.

When I lived in Fbx without a garage, i had a block heater plus one on the oil pan and the trans. Makes a HUGE difference.

That's why I reco'd the magnetic heater to Sammo. Stick it on, have a cup or two of coffee, and go to work.

And that aint all......

I sure as hell wouldn't do that today... Geeze-Louise..

Did it lotsa times, no problem at all. Mind you , these weren't autos that cost $30k. My average car was worth $500 bucks , maybe. I thought of it catching on fire but I think it never did cause the engine is -20F, so therfore the oil is too. Kind of like taking cold coffee in a paper cup and putting it in a fire. It doesn't catch on fire cause the coffee keeps it too cool to ignite. Only thing I can tink of.

This happened to a service tech of mine that lived in Menomonee WIS back in the early 1980s...

Ronnie had a 1967 Dodge Monaco, with a 383 in it... His uncle was the Dodge dealer in Eau Claire.... and he sold the car to Ronnie's parents new in 1967...

Ronnie Graduated high school in 1970, and started a job was a service tech with our company... His parents gave him the car, which only had 3,000 miles on it at the time...

1981 or 82 rolls around, Chrysler is in the tank, and Lee Ioacocca is doing what he can to keep the company afloat...

Ronnie writes them a letter and lets them know that he has the 67 Monaco with 530,000 miles on it.. the job has him putting 55 to 60 thousand miles a year on it...

He was contacted by Chrysler's marketing and public relations dept, and they want to do a commercial on him and his car....So arrangements are made, that they will fly a camera crew out, and do a filming for the commercial of him and his Monaco at his farm outside Menomonee....

The scheduled day was in January, and the closest airport for them to fly into is Eau Claire, 25 to 30 miles away.... Ron even takes the day off from work for the event...

He jumps in the shower, and tells his 14 year old son to go out and start the car so it is warmed up when the film crew arrive...

its 25 to 30 below that morning...kid puts the key in it to start it and just the old cold weather ..RRRRrrrrr from the motor, as the oil is the viscosity of taffy...

Kid comes in and tells his dad, who is in the shower... dad tells kid to fire up the Hibachi and slip it under the oil pan...

Kid does as told and then comes running back into the house telling his dad the car's on fire... he thinks the kid is being a punk, and trying to fire him up... but kid insists.. he looks at the bathroom window and the entire front of the car is blazing...

Ronnie jumps out of the shower, wraps a towel around himself, throws on his overcoat, jumps into a pair of snow mobile boots, and goes running outside with the fire extinguisher, and his hair still wet and full of shampoo....

of course his hair do quickly freezes in the shape he ran out the door with it in...by the time he gets out in front of the barn, the interior is starting to smolder and catch on fire...

he yells for his son to go and get the other fire extinguisher....

as he finally gets the fire out, he is standing out here in an overcoat that is not hardly buttoned up, his hair looking like a frozen ocean wave coming in, just a towel wrapped around him underneath and standing there in a pair of untied snow mobile boots.. and in the drive way pulls the film crew that flew in from Detroit that morning.....

Have almost 300k on my 93 chevy. I bought it new and always use chevron 5w30
Never had to touch the motor and it still runs strong and uses no oil..
As for synthetics they are great oil. I use it in my motorcycles and have used them in the past in other trucks.. Never kept one long enough to tell if I get better engine life, but I don't doubt it would.. Synthetics are great in extreme cold and won't starve the engine on cold starts. They seem to run a little smother.. I switched all my diesel welders to synthetic for a winter Alaska job and back to conventional oil. Didn't see a problem at all.

Some of Mobil 1 is group IV (0W-40, all the ESP 15K oils, any of the oils that start with 0- not 5-), most Mobil 1 is group III (after Castrol won in court) . Amsoil is Group IV. Redline ,Motul, and Eneos are Group V (ester) and even better. Pennzoil Ultra and Platinum is GTL (gas to liquid) Group III, which is not a true Group IV oil, but great stuff. Any of the oils (from a major manufacturer) that meet manufacturer specs will do you well. Do you like blondes, redheads, or brunettes?

Or you could slap one of these on and save yourself a trip in the cold to plug it in. When it's not too cold I set it to trip on a few hours before I'll start the truck, when it's azz cold I run it all night.

I just bought a Toyota Avalon from a Toyota dealer, and it needs 0W-20 oil. As indicated above, I don't think I can get that viscosity range except in a synthetic or synthetic blend oil. It had 18,000 miles on it when I bought it and the dealer changed the oil for me. They put a sticker on the windshield indicating it is due for the next oil change at 5 months or 26,000 miles! I am used to doing oil changes religiously at about 4,000 mile intervals on my GM cars. The folks at the dealership swear it's okay to go 8,000 to 10,000 miles on synthetic or semi-synthetic oil. It's a certified used car and so has a 7 year, 100,000 mile power train warranty. It's not in their best interest to tell me wrong, but this is going to take some getting used to! By the way, the oil was as clear as water when new and now has 6,000 miles on it. It just now looks like oil in a GM engine with about 1,000 miles on it; it's just beginning to turn dark. the level is in the middle of the operating range. It does have a capacity of 6.5 quarts, about 2 more than on my GM V6 engines. I wonder if the greater oil volume has something to do with the longer oil change interval...

The wife's 2010 Corolla also wants 0W-20, and the only non-synthetic I've seen in that weight range, is Toyota's. They advertise $34.95 oil changes at the dealership, +$30 for synthetic. The service techs advise 5K intervals on conventional oil, and 10K on synthetics.

Of course, they also "advise" replacing the headlight fluid, and new shocks & struts every 15K, and shifter knob lubrication services� I'd guess they're on commission.

FC

i've run several cars to 200k or so running quaker state changed when the dash board tells me to. and none of them used oil or blew smoke. leak, yes, but thats what i call "lazy mans undercoating".