Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/1...tated-fatal-beating-at-ny/?intcmp=hplnws

Witness reportedly says witchcraft accusation precipitated fatal beating at NY church

A witness says a stunning accusation of witchcraft may have triggered a brutal assault at an upstate New York church in which a 19-year-old man was beaten to death, the New York Times reported Saturday.

The witness heard the pastor at the secretive Word of Life Christian Church in New Hartford tell the congregation Sunday night that someone among them was practicing witchcraft, the paper reported.

Lucas Leonard, 19, who was fatally beaten, said identified himself the one, and that he wanted church elders to die and that he had considered making a voodoo of a church leader, according to the Times.

The paper cited as its source a statement Word of Life deacon Daniel Irwin, 24, gave to the authorities investigating Leonard’s death. The statement has not been made public. Authorities say Leonard and his 17-year-old brother, Christopher, who was seriously injured, were beaten for hours.

Police have charged their parents Bruce Leonard, 65, and Debra Leonard, 59, of Clayville, N.Y., with manslaughter. Four other church members, including the dead teenager’s sister, have been charged with assault. All have pleaded not guilty.

Irwin’s account suggests that Leonard’s open admission of practicing witchcraft may have unsettled church members, the paper reported.

Police chief Michael Inserra said outside court that members told authorities Lucas Leonard and Christopher Leonard, were beaten over Lucas' desire to leave the church.

Irwin is an important prosecution witness. He testified at a Friday at a preliminary hearing that he watched Bruce Leonard strike the two teen brothers with what appeared to be a belt during a counseling session after services.

Irwin testified that he watched through a window and saw Lucas bleeding and rolling on the floor. He described panicked members of the Word of Life Christian Church saying Lucas was dead. He said he helped load the teen's body into a van to send him to the hospital.

At the end of the hearing, a judge found prosecutors have enough evidence to move forward with their case against the parents.

New Hartford Town Court Justice William Virkler ordered Bruce and Deborah Leonard held on bail while evidence is presented to a grand jury.

The attorneys for the parents unsuccessfully asked for the charges to be dismissed, saying prosecutors hadn't submitted sufficient proof to justify a manslaughter charge.

Outside the courtroom, Oneida County District Attorney Scott McNamara said there may be additional charges in the case and more people could be prosecuted beyond the six already arrested.

McNamara said he anticipates prosecutors would ultimately ask a grand jury to consider the current charges "and other charges against these individuals and other individuals."

He also said prosecutors are researching whether a murder charge could apply in the case.

Old habits die hard here in the Northeast......

Maybe they haven't updated their bulletin yet.
Witch craft is on the list of new norms.

Religion of Peace and forgives...

I thought Hillary had died, damn, yet I guess I can still drink the whiskey!

I'm betting no ones coming out of the closet soon in that community.

Good christians at work...

She must weigh the same as a duck or they're not going to get away with it.

The shame of it Ingwe is that you are correct, how the heck can anyone like that be reasoned with?

Definitely, not Christ at work.

Just "christians", as was ingwe's point.

Religion is different than Christianity.

Or really small rocks...

Dammit!
Beat me to it!
lol

http://nypost.com/2015/10/01/oregon-gunman-singled-out-christians-during-rampage/

A gunman singled out Christians, telling them they would see God in “one second,” during a rampage at an Oregon college Thursday that left at least nine innocent people dead and several more wounded, survivors and authorities said.
“[He started] asking people one by one what their religion was. ‘Are you a Christian?’ he would ask them, and if you’re a Christian, stand up. And they would stand up and he said, ‘Good, because you’re a Christian, you are going to see God in just about one second.’ And then he shot and killed them,” Stacy Boylen, whose daughter was wounded at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Ore., told CNN.

A Twitter user named @bodhilooney, who said her grandmother was at the scene of the carnage, tweeted that if victims said they were Christian, “then they were shot in the head. If they said no, or didn’t answer, they were shot in the legs.”
Gunman Chris Harper-Mercer’s disdain for religion was evident in an online profile, in which he became a member of a “doesn’t like organized religion” group on an Internet dating site.
Kort­ney Moore, 18, said she saw the teacher of her Writing 115 class get shot in the head at the college’s Snyder Hall before the gunman started asking people to state their religion and opening fire, the city’s News-Review newspaper reported.
Harper-Mercer, 26, was killed in a shootout with police outside one of the classrooms, said Douglas County Sheriff John Hanlin.
“There was an exchange of gunfire,” he said. “The shooter threat was neutralized.”
Although police put the death toll at 10 — including Harper-Mercer — with seven people injured, Oregon Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum had said 13 people died.

Why would we be surprised? Jesus predicted this when he was talking about false prophets:


When we expect everyone claiming to be Christians to act like Christians, we have expectations that even Jesus didn't have.

Steve.

i TOLD him not to wear that fuggen pointy hat to church. but no....

I was always taught there was no such thing as a witch.

TFF!

Piddler's Church?

Keep your eye on the Whitehouse porch.
One will ride her broom away behind a mulatto dingleBarry's limo and another with pointy hat on will land and park her broom in that same spot with a past due Bill's limo in the driveway.

Some things just don't get better with time...

So true, yet the hatred a stupidity will never end. It will only get worse.

Actually, it's as authentic as sharia law, it's a very late term abortion.

Somewhere in the Bible you'll find the admonition that children who are unruly and won't listen should be taken outside the walls of the city with the elders and stoned to death.

If following sharia law is going to be a valid defense for criminal behavior then I guess what happened here is pretty well covered too.

And all the lib's should be supportive because beating your child to death is just a choice! God knows, there was a more valid reason to 'abort' this kid than any of the defenseless fetuses that are murdered every day.

I have had encounters with the "Word of Life" Church members. VERY farggin weird. Any upstate guys who go around Schroon Lake has run into them.

LMAO

Shroom Lake?

Schroon Lake. Genuine moniker

Sounds like the wannabe Warlock was ingesting some shrooms though.

I think it was Ann Landers who responded to a reader asking how people in Church could behave so badly and still call themselves "Christians"....

I read this probably 30 years ago and still think of Ann's pithy reply often...

"Gentle reader, just because someone is standing in a garage does not mean they are a mechanic...".

I'm always amazed (well, no, not really...) when something like this happens and the haughty retort from other Christians is "well, he/she/they weren't really Christians".

Um, yeah, they were.

The "well, they weren't really ______" doesn't hold water for Muslims, Jews, or any other religion, nor does it hold water for any other group, ethnicity, race, etc. Christians aren't exempt, and no amount of haughty hypocrisy changes that.

But if someone is standing in a mosque, he is, of course, a terrorist muslim jihadist bent on killing every nonmuslim on the planet.

It is amazing how some hide behind the church to commit some nasty acts! Not too much different than Sharia Law guys!

Seems like murder to me instead of manslaughter. Good thing it happened in New York where they have gun control, otherwise somebody might have shot the poor kid.

Didn't the pos say that he wanted the elders to die? Sounds like a threat to me. We all have a decision to make when faced with a death threat.

Why don't you check out what the awful Christians did while in Heart Butte, Montana this past summer. Such hateful and stingy souls we are.

YUP!!!

We scream and raise hell when the left wants to go after our guns because an idiot performs a criminal act and we are full of righteous indignation when the left wants to take our guns because of a criminal. We scream that you shouldn't judge everyone by the acts of a few.
You want to compare Christianity to Sharia law? Really?

Some of you seem to want it both ways. If you expect Christians to be perfect, you need to adjust your expectations because the only perfect man to walk this earth was crucified for it.

Mog75,

With parental consent, a girl of twelve can be married in Massachusetts, in New Hampshire its thirteen, Texas, New York and a couple of other States its 14...

Mississippi doesn't even have a lower age limit providing the girl has parental consent....

That's modern America..if you went back a hundred years, I bet child brides were a even more common...

Regards,

Peter

The trouble is that Sharia Law "evolved" from OT teachings and was what essentially Jewish culture...

If you read the OT, life and the Jewish religion were often pretty brutal back then, and that's the problem if people today try to follow its teachings/examples literally...

I agree but Christ came to do away with the old law. He established a New Convenant and it replaced Old Testament Law.

It's very offensive that some hate Christ and Christians so much as to use anything to take a shot at them.

Nope:

Matthew:
5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

minor fix

That's probably the view of most main stream Christian denominations, but certainly not all..

I suppose you could debate if some of the smaller "sects" are actually Christians, but if their faith centres on John 3:16 and all it means, they certainly are, despite their perhaps less than orthodox interpretations of the Bible...

A case in point would be the various Christian groups that still endorse polygamy..

Regards,

Peter

Jim, I had to do some thinking back. But I am sure we dealt with some of these nut jobs on a runaway case years ago. Real fuggin weirdos, I mean heebie-jeebie weirdos.

If I remember right, we had found the kid and made contact with the parents/guardians. Next thing we know a whole van full of folks shows up to "claim" him. Long story short our court system ended up placing him, but those folks straight up freaked me out....I know they were from upstate NY someplace

Poobs, these folks are as Christian is Jim jones

Is there anything that the Scriptures point to that allows for polygamy?

Certainly the Jews of the OT practiced polygamy to a degree and it is allowed under the Torah Law..

Again, I think what we are seeing is just something that was accepted in the culture of the ME in those times and it was adopted and continued under Islam..

Not sure about the NT teaching on the matter..I assume it supports monogamy, but don't know enough to be 100% sure...

Of course, that sort of side steps the other issue thrown up by your question: Which Scriptures are you talking about? Various different Christian denominations/sects have different versions of the Bible and the small print is not the same!

Solomon had 700 wives.

Yes, it is regular practice for christians to beat suspected witches to death.

Not in 2015.




Travis

Nothing could be further from the truth. No where does the Bible say thou shalt have one wife.

According to the Bible a man can have all the wives, concubines, and sex slaves he wants and can afford.

You sure about that? Read 1st Timothy and get back to us.

Fixed it for you.

No, just "christians", as stated.

No group can have it both ways.

So Solomon only had sex with one of his wives?

Scriptures refer to the New Testament. Please try again.

Please refer to the New Testament Scriptural reference for this claim.

Christians aren't asking for it both ways. Many who "claim" to be Christian are not.

You just proved my point and undercut your own.

As for 1st Timothy, first off, it's a forgery, not written by Paul, and the reference to having only one wife only applies to Bishops, it says nothing about the common man.

3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

So the Old Testament is not Scripture?

I didn't realize you are a Theologian.

Have you ever heard of the Old Testament referred to as The Scriptures?

Can you also provide your source for the accusation of the Book of Timothy being forgery?

Wow,

You know nothing of about modern textual criticism. The Authorship of the Pastorals is the most disputed of any New Testament works:

Scholarly opinion nowadays is almost unanimous against Pauline authorship: The New Jerome Biblical Commentary, publ. Geoffrey Chapman, 1989, chapter 60, at p.920, col. 2, "That Paul is neither directly nor indirectly the author is now the view of scholars almost without exception. For details, see Kümmel, I[ntroduction to the] N[ew] T[estament, Nashville, 1975] 392-94, 401-3".

4ager,

Why don't you just post a picture of yourself and end all of this foolishness on the campfire.

antelope_sniper,

It's obviously the standard. Sexual purity is a theme throughout the New Testament. I suggest you read it.

Geoffery Chapman said it. It's got to be true. Keep googling..

Is the old testament is no longer part of the bible?

I would have thought you'd have trouble doing away with the ten commandments in the effort to ignore the genocide and slavery.

Oh so pure:

Matthew 25:1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

l believe you are quoting Paul, not Jesus or a prophet. That would be repeating what a very fallible human stated as his opinion.

I like how so many of these "Christians" are so much better at quoting the Old Testament instead of the New. They like talking about all the fire and brimstone eye for an eye violence but kind of gloss over the turn the other cheek stuff. I guess that they forgot that the root of Christian is Christ

The root of Christianity goes back to this chick if not further:

Was they democrats or republicans?

It is sad that we fall so terribly short of the One True Christian, Christ Himself.

Clearly what goes on in Church falls far short of "love thy neighbor as thyself". It's certainly true in my life.

Falling short of an ideal does not in my mind necessitate an abandonment of the ideal, however. I hope that all can say, Christian or non, that progress toward better loving of ones neighbor is a goal worth striving for on a daily basis.

Didn't say it isn't a part of the Bible. But it isn't The Scriptures.

We are certainly very imperfect, no question at all. Many of us are trying very hard to help improve the lives of others though. We fail in this effort also, but great effort is being made by many. As society degenerates, I see more and more churches working tirelessly to compensate for the misery of the situation.

Your statement still begs an answer.

You stated, "A case in point would be the various Christian groups that still endorse polygamy.."

Who exactly are these various Christian groups?

Please quote the rest of the passage. You know this is metephor.

We are back to the question of honesty. Once again, you prove that you are not.

How many parts are there to the bible and what is each part for?

So it holds no authority?

You're the one who's playing the part of a Biblical Scholar. What do you think?

Oh, that's right, the groom only has sex with 5 of them.

Cain killed Abel.

Solomon having 700 wives and Cain killin Abel are simply statements of fact. Niether statement of fact suggest approval.

Since you mentioned Soloman...as king. Here is the commandment concerning a king:

Deuteronomy 17:17
“Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.”


I have no issue with you using scripture. It is the dishonest way in which you do it that causes me to not respect you.

You are the one claiming it's not scripture. Since it sounds like you are not even familiar with the definition, I'd like to hear the implication of what your statement "the OT is not scripture", means to you.

There is one passage in one of the Timothys (Timothies?) where Paul is laying out the qualifications for deacons or bishops and one of the recommendations is that he be the husband of one wife. This has to do with the extra duties required of the office rather than a moral prohibition against multiple wives.

Think of it this way. If you have a bunch of hens yappin' at you to do things, where in the hell will you find the time to carry out extra responsibilities outside the home?

+1

DF

To me, The Scriptures have always referred to the New Testament. Although I've read it for a long time, I'm not a scholar. Having said that, when I hear someone referring to The Scriptures, I think of the New Testament.

Religion is not different than Christianity.

Christianity is a subset of religion.

I know multiple "so called Christians" who act as they want monday-saturday, drink beer etc, etc, then come Sunday they are the saints of the church.

If the OT is not part of your Scripture (which means holy writings, or sacred writings), you are throwing out the Ten Commandments, as well as the Story of Adam and Eve, and the Garden of Eden. Without the Garden of Eden, there is no original sin, and therefore no need for a bloody human sacrifice to wash it away. In so doing, you've just nullified the primary purpose behind your religion.

And if the service runs 10 minutes over they are mad as HELL.

Again, you show your ignorance of the very scriptures you cite. The groom has sex with none of them.

The complete context of the passage of which you deliberately misrepresent:


Mathew 25
1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

You deliberately left out vs 1 with the phrase "likened unto". Anyone with an ounce of integrity would recognize that what follows is not literal...but figurative

However, I am glad you chose this distortion, as it is common place with you. It does directly apply to the topic at hand. The 5 wise virgins with oil in their lamps represent those who "possess" Christ. The 5 foolish virgins are those who only "profess" Christ.

Big difference!

I'm not dismissing any of the New Testament. As I said, I have always thought of the Scriptures as New Testament writings. Nothing more. That has been my understanding. It sounds like I'm wrong. Not sure that's ever happened before...;)

+1,000!

Ok guys, you've heard it here. Go get yourself some sex slaves. When you get to heaven, tell God that Antelope Sniper said it was OK.

Are you suggesting that it's not ok to drink beer?

No true! Please present your evidence.

Who cares?

If a crime was committed it appears the authorities have it under control.

Is it supposed to come as a shock that people in a church did something wrong?

Much of the Bible is written as letters to various church's of the time to admonish them.

Playing Devil's advocate again, par for the course.

Mike

There's not dishonesty except you denying the words on the paper. After all, according to scripture, Solomon was the wisest man ever and his wisdom came directly from God:

4:29 And God gave Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much, and largeness of heart, even as the sand that is on the sea shore.
4:30 And Solomon's wisdom excelled the wisdom of all the children of the east country, and all the wisdom of Egypt.
4:31 For he was wiser than all men; than Ethan the Ezrahite, and Heman, and Chalcol, and Darda, the sons of Mahol: and his fame was in all nations round about.

In addition David had "many wives", with eight mentioned by name, and God approved of everything David did except his killing of Uriah.

Again, you have a very selective way of reading the scriptures.

I Kings 11:

1But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites; 2Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love. 3And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart. 4For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father. 5For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. 6And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father. 7Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. 8And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.


9And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice, 10And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the LORD commanded. 11Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant. 12Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father's sake: but I will rend it out of the hand of thy son. 13Howbeit I will not rend away all the kingdom; but will give one tribe to thy son for David my servant's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake which I have chosen.


All you have proved is that wisdom is no substitute for obedience.

The warnings of God to the multipling of wives came to pass in Solomon's life...just as God had warned. Did you not know this? I think not. You just conviently left it out...as is your habbit.

As to David, please provide evidence where God said he approved of everything he did except the killing of Uriah.

God approved of everything David did, and David had multiple wives and concubine.

As for sex slaved, God outlines his rules for war which included killing all the men and enslaving and keeping the women for yourselves:

Deuteronomy
20:10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
20:11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.
20:12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
20:13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
20:14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
20:15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.
20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
20:17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:

Then we have explicit examples where Moses channels God and puts this into practice killing everyone except the virgin girls who they keep for themselves, and they even sacrifice a few humans as burnt offerings to God.

Numbers 31

31:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
31:2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.
31:3 And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD of Midian.
31:4 Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.
31:5 So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.
31:6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.
31:7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
31:8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
31:9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
31:10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
31:11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
31:12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
31:13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
31:19 And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.
31:20 And purify all your raiment, and all that is made of skins, and all work of goats' hair, and all things made of wood.
31:21 And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD commanded Moses;
31:22 Only the gold, and the silver, the brass, the iron, the tin, and the lead,
31:23 Every thing that may abide the fire, ye shall make it go through the fire, and it shall be clean: nevertheless it shall be purified with the water of separation: and all that abideth not the fire ye shall make go through the water.
31:24 And ye shall wash your clothes on the seventh day, and ye shall be clean, and afterward ye shall come into the camp.
31:25 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
31:26 Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:
31:27 And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation:ORD commanded Moses;
31:28 And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:
31:29 Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.
31:30 And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD.
31:31 And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.
31:32 And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,
31:33 And threescore and twelve thousand beeves,
31:34 And threescore and one thousand asses,
31:35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.
31:36 And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep:
31:37 And the LORD's tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen.
31:38 And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the LORD's tribute was threescore and twelve.
31:39 And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the LORD's tribute was threescore and one.
31:40 And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which the LORD's tribute was thirty and two persons.

1 Kings:
15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

Is it not interesting that some who are not professing Christians expect to be taken seriously when they attempt to lecture and critique professing and practicing Christians - and often others - about the tenets and behaviors of Christianity?

Really,...WTF, Over ?

GTC

So you have no issue with even worse case poachers being depicted as hunters?

Unless they are [bleep] the animals to death, yes they are.

If poaching were the only way I could feed my family or pay the bills then ethics come a distant last, I am fortunate that I am not in that position though so I get to choose the way I act.

Hypocrisy is distasteful and signifies weakness wherever it rears its head, and it certainly appears in various types/groups where behavioral principles and standards are espoused - including among those who call themselves Christians. But, your post borders on ridiculous because of your ignorant assumptions ("haughty") and apparent refusal to acknowledge that anyone can deceptively present himself as something he is not (a "Christian" for example).

You are not stupid so, surely, somewhere in your consciousness you realize that such deceptions have zero to do with the principles and behaviors of those being impersonated. Never having met a Christian who is perfect, I do know many, many who work very hard to live as taught by Christ and according to God's Word. Certainly, when it comes to Christianity, a person striving to live by such principles is able to detect and explain a deceptive phony with much more alacrity and precision than would someone ignorant of the milieu - which could be you.

I have a hunch that you know better, and can do better, but that your eagerness to bash Christians gets the better of your common sense, if not your common decency.

If all you got out of that is an erroneous opinion that I set out to "bash Christians", then that says more about your objective in reading into things than it does about any statement I made.

Oh, and Frank, that's an apples and oranges comparison of significant magnitude.

Hey AS, it's like catnip for you isn't it?

Give it a rest, you're starting to look troubled.

Thank goodness for several of you on is thread that you have it all figured out from the beginning of time to the end of days!

Whatever....

That is a fallacy generally facilitated only by non-hunters.

same same

No where in that passage does it refer to "sex slaves". That idea comes from your own twisted mind.

No, what I got from that particular post was not any opinion about your "bashing' - you have demonstrated the bashing in earlier threads. Assuming that it was sincere, your post demonstrated ignorance and limited scope. Read carefully - you used the term "haughty" on you own and you are the one that tried to lump all Christians and supposed Christians into one behavior pattern. If you want to see "haughty" maybe try looking into the mirror.

makes no differents what they do ,they can all be saved in the end.

God punished David harshly for killing Uriah to get Bathsheba for himself. God did not approve of everything David did. God was wroth with David for numbering Israel too.

Aren't you thinking of the Gosples? Definitionally, scripture is any verse in any holy writing, and not limited to the Bible. Both Old and New Testament writings are scripture.

AS you will have all of eternity to debate this with many if not most of the modern day Bible "scholars". Few are believers, thus they fit your agenda quite well.

So you are saying the above passage from the Bible is wrong, and the Bible contradicts itself?

This presumes your hell exists, and you have yet to prove it does.

A church can be hard on a non-conformist.

I've entered a few of them along the way. Never felt comfortable in any of them.

I'm with you MM...

Dead wrong, as usual. I realize playing the "christian victim" card comes easy, but it still doesn't make it right.

Ditto.

I discounted Christianity as a teenager, once I figured out I could have invented a more moral religion myself, and with less pretending in absurdities that result in things like this.

So all you have left is personal attacks.

Really?

What do you think they did with the 32,000 virgin after murdering the rest of their families?

Besides Deuteronomy 22:28-29 lays out rules for keeping your new captured war bride.

No. That is not what he is saying. He is being an honest student of the scriptures...and not looking for a disingenuis way to come to an "I got you" soundbite.

The passage you cited said:

David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

The passage you cited did not say:

Everything David did...was a command of the Lord.

Big difference. One that a person operating in sencerity would reconize.

First, the passage you cited has nothing to do with what you call "captured war bride."

Secondly, what you or I think (as you so like to put it) is irrevelent. Only what you can prove, correct?

Now who's being dishonest?

I didn't use the work command. I used the word approved.

Again, but difference.

If you don't think the captors had sex with the captured virgins you are being naive, dishonest, or just ignoring all context.

After all, the tribe of Benjamin is at most half Jewish because all their wives were captured war brides.

The scripture you cited 1 Kings 15:5 used he word command.

Command and approve are two different concepts. However, this is typical of you to interject your own meaning into the text.

If you qoute the text using the word command...and you interject the word approved...the fact remains that this is dishonest.

There is a lot to be said of a man who obsesses so compulsively over that which he claims to be convinced is ludicrous.

An awful lot to be said of those who continually engage him too I suppose but it is the innerwebs...

The context Deu. 22: 28 and 29 is not "captured virgins." If that is your contention, you are just plain wrong.

Secondly...and again...using your standard, what you think is irrelevent...only what you can prove.

Lastly, if you want to discuss the tribe of Benjamin. Give the citations, and we'll attempt (as futile as it usually proves to be) to discuss them honestly.

Otherwise, as George Will once said, your bringing this up is simply the act of "A pyromaniac in a field of straw men."

With all due respect.

Now you are ignoring the first half of the passage:

David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD...

By extension, you are also claiming that God did not approve of David's multiple wives, but never took the time to say anything about it to him...

He lives for this. It is his mission. It is only out of friendliness that some of us engage him.

Eventually, most everyone tires (with the exception of AS perhaps) and we move on.

As for myself, and I think I speak for AS, there are no hard feelings...even though the discussion is often plain spoken and straight foward.

When I tire, I say so, and I disengage. I have not found AS to be so petty as to continue referring back to my posts after that point. I can respect that. I hope he can say the same about me.

You are correct, the passage I wanted was a chapter earlier, 21:10-14:

I accidentally quoted the passage that may require a woman to marry her rapist.

21:10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
21:11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
21:12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
21:13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
21:14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

As for the Civil war the nearly wiped out the tribe of Benjamin, it's judges 19-21. Once again, a city is slaughtered for their virgin daughter, and since the Jews were still shot a couple hundred, they went and stole the remaining virgins from the city of Shiloh.

God had already given the prohibition against having multiple wives.

Deu. 17:

Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

18And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites: 19And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them: 20That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.

Not only that, he was to write himself a copy of the law...[to] read therein all the days of his life.

God did speak to him about it, just not in the way you seem to require.

The principle was established, it was read by him, copied by him, and he was commanded to continue to read it {the Law...he himself copied] all the days of his life.

Pretty straigh forward...even for one predisposed to argument.

This, as you have probably figured out by now, takes us right back to the issue of free will. David chose to disobey God's clear command.

David having multiple wives, with half-brothers and half-sister was also a contributing factor in the distruction of his family. Namely, a half-brother raping his half-sister, which resulted offender's murder.

So long as we are attacking the arguments, and not the people, I see no reason for hard feelings.

Then you have another contradiction. Both passage cannot be true.

But the Bible is full of contradictions that would not occur if it was truly the result of an all knowing, all powerful, all loving supernatural being.

Again what you cite states:

David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD...

The passage you cite does not say:

David did every thing right in the eyes of the LORD

Unlike Jesus...speaking of himself:

1 John 1:29

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Please point out the contridiction.

Did David "do what was right in the eye's of the Lord", "and obey every command" while having multiple wives, or does "multiple wives", not mean what you think it means?

Make "what" right? Clearly you do not like being the victim of your own utterances. Christians are not at all victims in this instance or and I would dare say that none here feel victimized by your periodic efforts in that direction.

There is a guy who collects reloading manuals. He doesn't just collect them, he reads them and memorizes whole sections of them.

Each time a bunch of handloader/shooters get together for a B S session, this guy shows up and joins the discussion. His input consists of pointing out inconsistencies in load data.

But what is REALLY remarkable is that the guy does not own one set of dies, no powder or bullets, and has never fired a shot in his life!

You can't help but play victim, that was the point in case you missed it.

All you got from my statement was an erroneous opinion that I was "bashing" Christians, and came out crying victim. As stated, you were/are dead wrong and the rest of my post applies as such an opinion says more about you and what you want to read into things than anything I posted.

Carry on, as you're climbing onboard yet another high horse, as is typical for your second move in all threads after you've cried victim.

Idiotic - you have NEVER seen me cry victim over any of your drivel on this topic, and I haven't seen anyone else do so. You are a one-trick pony once you incriminate yourself with your posts. You resort to the only escape route remaining by claiming someone is "wrong" yet offer zero evidence to that end. Then, you try to assign some fictitious status to the one who exposes you. It won't work. No one feels vicimized by your disingenuous posts. You seem to be the vicitm and you do it to yourself.

So much for attacking idea's and not each other.