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Posted By: tzone My Daughters Teacher - 02/10/16
My daughter came home today and I asked her what she did at school. She was telling me about science, and how they're learning about Evoloution. I asked her if she believes in eveoloition and she said "no God did it."

She said her teacher also said "I don't believe in this but I have to teach it to you anyway."


I'll be dipped...
Posted By: ihookem Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/10/16
She can teach it but others have the right to their opinion. All students have a right to disagree. My two kids flat out said they did not believe it. They were bold enough to surprise the teachers. Admitting creation can not be "proven " but neither can evolution so , both are indeed theories. The is no way to prove neither. Creationists have simple theory. It is so vast and mysterious that only God could have created it. Evolutionists have a problem. They change their theories about every decade. The more one changes their theory the more the theory has suspicion.
Posted By: ConradCA Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
The scientific evidence supporting evolution is overwhelming and logically consistent. The men who wrote the bible may have been inspired by God, but had no understanding of science or the scientific method and attempted to answer the mystery of the origins of life. We should understand that they did their best at this problem, but we know better.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...Search/true/Evolution_Proof?#Post8255381
Posted By: ismith Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
Originally Posted by ConradCA
The scientific evidence supporting evolution is overwhelming and logically consistent. The men who wrote the bible may have been inspired by God, but had no understanding of science or the scientific method and attempted to answer the mystery of the origins of life. We should understand that they did their best at this problem, but we know better.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...Search/true/Evolution_Proof?#Post8255381

You're entitled to your opinion just like everyone else, but that doesn't make you any righter.
Posted By: ro1459 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
I am simple minded when it comes to this discussion. I simply look at the growth of humans in the womb from egg to birth. That is clearly an evolving process. I believe God created all life, but question if he created it to remain as first introduced. Could he just as easily have created us to evolve on Earth, as in the womb, to become what we are today. In my mind, both evolution and creation are in conjunction with each other and both support the others point of view. And, I thank God every day for this wonderful gift.
Posted By: JMR40 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
No scientist has ever claimed the the "theory" of evolution had ever been proven. It is one of many theories that are always taught as a theory. Nothing at all wrong with that, but some Christians get their undies all tied up in knots when the subject is brought up.

For the record I'm a Christian and believe God created the universe and man. I also know that God chose not to provide all of the details of how he created everything in the bible, it is only a rough draft.

I don't believe there is any conflict between the bible and science. Science will someday be able to explain all of the wonders of the bible. God did after all create the science and many of his wonders can now be explained by science. Just because we can't explain creation now only confirms that God is smarter than we are. When he wants up to know the details they will be revealed to us.

When Christians get all up in arms thinking that someone is challenging the bible when the theory of evolution is brought up shows a lack of faith in God to me. There is no doubt that evolution exists in some from. I just have to trust in God and believe he did in fact create everything. I don't sweat the details of exactly how he went about it.
Posted By: bangeye Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
jMR40. The last half of your closing paragraph is a good answer.
Posted By: EthanEdwards Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
Originally Posted by ConradCA
The scientific evidence supporting evolution is overwhelming and logically consistent. The men who wrote the bible may have been inspired by God, but had no understanding of science or the scientific method and attempted to answer the mystery of the origins of life. We should understand that they did their best at this problem, but we know better.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...Search/true/Evolution_Proof?#Post8255381
I agree with the others who said you're entitled to your opinion, even if it is a bunch of stupid horse [bleep].
Posted By: 375fan Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
Originally Posted by JMR40
No scientist has ever claimed the the "theory" of evolution had ever been proven. It is one of many theories that are always taught as a theory. Nothing at all wrong with that, but some Christians get their undies all tied up in knots when the subject is brought up.

For the record I'm a Christian and believe God created the universe and man. I also know that God chose not to provide all of the details of how he created everything in the bible, it is only a rough draft.

I don't believe there is any conflict between the bible and science. Science will someday be able to explain all of the wonders of the bible. God did after all create the science and many of his wonders can now be explained by science. Just because we can't explain creation now only confirms that God is smarter than we are. When he wants up to know the details they will be revealed to us.

When Christians get all up in arms thinking that someone is challenging the bible when the theory of evolution is brought up shows a lack of faith in God to me. There is no doubt that evolution exists in some from. I just have to trust in God and believe he did in fact create everything. I don't sweat the details of exactly how he went about it.


Good post.
Posted By: DakotaDeer Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
Originally Posted by ro1459
I am simple minded when it comes to this discussion. I simply look at the growth of humans in the womb from egg to birth. That is clearly an evolving process. I believe God created all life, but question if he created it to remain as first introduced. Could he just as easily have created us to evolve on Earth, as in the womb, to become what we are today. In my mind, both evolution and creation are in conjunction with each other and both support the others point of view. And, I thank God every day for this wonderful gift.


The process of growing in the womb has nothing to do with evolution proper. You clearly must misunderstand what "evolution" entails as an explanatory philosophy of origins.
Posted By: gitem_12 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
So if we evolved from apes, of which there are millions of today, and millions of humans today...what happened to the supposed ones in between?
Posted By: Sauer200 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by ConradCA
The scientific evidence supporting evolution is overwhelming and logically consistent. The men who wrote the bible may have been inspired by God, but had no understanding of science or the scientific method and attempted to answer the mystery of the origins of life. We should understand that they did their best at this problem, but we know better.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...Search/true/Evolution_Proof?#Post8255381
I agree with the others who said you're entitled to your opinion, even if it is a bunch of stupid horse [bleep].


Please prove this.
Posted By: srwshooter Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
its a lot easier to hold proof of evolution in your hand then it is to prove anything the bible says.
Posted By: MojoHand Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
V
Posted By: Sauer200 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
Originally Posted by srwshooter
its a lot easier to hold proof of evolution in your hand then it is to prove anything the bible says.


Perzactly!
Posted By: pal Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
Originally Posted by ConradCA
The scientific evidence supporting evolution is overwhelming and logically consistent. The men who wrote the bible may have been inspired by God, but had no understanding of science or the scientific method and attempted to answer the mystery of the origins of life. We should understand that they did their best at this problem, but we know better...


This. And they were trying to "explain" this to uneducated and superstitious people.

Scientific theory and faith in God can coexist. Unless one has his head up his azz.
Posted By: rost495 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
Originally Posted by tzone
My daughter came home today and I asked her what she did at school. She was telling me about science, and how they're learning about Evoloution. I asked her if she believes in eveoloition and she said "no God did it."

She said her teacher also said "I don't believe in this but I have to teach it to you anyway."


I'll be dipped...


AMazing isn't it. Although lately I'm starting to believe we may have had both the way some races act...

Kudo's on you for raising your daughter very well!
Originally Posted by JMR40
No scientist has ever claimed the the "theory" of evolution had ever been proven.


We see evolution in progress all the time...politicians are very adept at it...
Posted By: Calvin Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
My hope certainly isn't in evolution.
Posted By: stevelyn Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
Originally Posted by ihookem
Evolutionists have a problem. They change their theories about every decade. The more one changes their theory the more the theory has suspicion.


Changing the theory is a result of discovering new evidence that may or may not contradict the old theory. Nothing is static, especially what there is left to learn. We learn new things everyday even in the modern world.

We once thought the earth was flat. Discovery of evidence to the contrary cause the flat earthers to change their theory.

Posted By: stevelyn Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
Originally Posted by gitem_12
So if we evolved from apes, of which there are millions of today, and millions of humans today...what happened to the supposed ones in between?


No one has ever made the claim that evolution was linear. As species evolved into a new and improved models, the inferior ones died off because they couldn't adapt or compete.
Originally Posted by gitem_12
So if we evolved from apes, of which there are millions of today, and millions of humans today...what happened to the supposed ones in between?


We didn't evolve from apes...though related, we're a different species...Just like [bleep] c h i m p a n zees are related but an entirely different species than Gorillas...At some point in the history of planet, we Probably were the same species...we also share genetic DNA with pigs & other mammals. We're in our infancy in figuring it all out, but I suspect that if mankind can survive for another couple thousand years, we'll have a much better grasp on the origins & evolution of life...
BTW, I'm agnostic...so I don't have a dog in the fight of creationism vs. evolution, but in my mind, if man hadn't evolved & adapted, we'd be an extinct species...

I can't believe Rick has C H I M Panzees on his "bleep" list... wink
Can I still say pussy & cock?


http://www.livescience.com/21196-dolphin-brain-evolution-intelligence.html
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2010/05/03/2887206.htm
Posted By: RickyD Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
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For the record I'm a Christian and believe God created the universe and man. I also know that God chose not to provide all of the details of how he created everything in the bible, it is only a rough draft.
I don't view it as a rough draft, but only what we need to know and grow as is best for us, if we are willing, and a little more besides. He provided all I need to know about how He creates: simply by His Spoken Word. Not only does that tell me about Creation, but speaks books about Him. Pun intended.

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I don't believe there is any conflict between the bible and science.
I don't either, but recognize many conflicts between the Bible and scientists, by their choice. That's becoming a distinction without a difference, as intended which is as I believe.

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When he wants up to know the details they will be revealed to us.
There is a rather obscure verse in proverbs that says it is to the Glory of God to conceal a thing, and to the glory of kings to search it out. Truly, there will be much revealed to us when we are "face to face", but until that epic moment, I believe He wants us to search out all the truths we can from His Word and His Creation. Those who do, while giving Him the Glory, will be kings in His eyes.


Your post is a good one and my opinions are not meant to argue or contradict but to express or expand a bit more. Have a good day.
Posted By: ConradCA Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
Originally Posted by ismith
Originally Posted by ConradCA
The scientific evidence supporting evolution is overwhelming and logically consistent. The men who wrote the bible may have been inspired by God, but had no understanding of science or the scientific method and attempted to answer the mystery of the origins of life. We should understand that they did their best at this problem, but we know better.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...Search/true/Evolution_Proof?#Post8255381

You're entitled to your opinion just like everyone else, but that doesn't make you any righter.


It is not an opinion. It is supported by millions of facts and is logically consistent. I believe that the way people should think about this is that God created animals and people using evolution.

The description of creation in the bible is the best that the people who wrote the bible could do without science. I am a believer in: give unto God what is God's and give unto scientists what is science.
Posted By: Dutch Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
Originally Posted by ihookem
They were bold enough to surprise the teachers. Admitting creation can not be "proven " but neither can evolution so , both are indeed theories. The is no way to prove neither.


Point of order, but Biblical creation is a belief, evolution is a theory.

No proof is necessary to hold a belief, and no amount of proof can disprove it. It need not be consistent, nor logical, nor credible. It just is.

A theory is a postulation of a set of rules, which can then be dis-proven, and subsequently replaced with another set of proposed rules.

It's impossible to NOT BELIEVE in the theory of evolution. It's a theory, not a belief. A person can try to disprove it scientifically, but I've not seen that done yet.
I've seen a direct correlation twixt the radical and vocal support of evolution and the support and belief in the murder of unborn children.
Posted By: ironbender Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
These threads are never not fun!
Posted By: jdm953 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
This is the same kind of science that brought us "Global Warming"or is it "Global Freezing"oh yea its "Climate Change"now.We dont know anything we simply believe.Everybody pick whatever they want and stop saying its a fact.
Posted By: justin10mm Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
Originally Posted by ironbender
These threads are never not fun!


Yep.

The idea of creation and intelligent design is simply stupid.

The fact that in today's world there are still people that honestly think the earth is only 6000 years old is distressing to say the least.
Posted By: jdm953 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
Look at the ones that think we come from aliens.Everybody has their evidence to back up what they have chosen to believe.They are all faith,just in different things.
Posted By: justin10mm Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
Gravity is a theory. You can choose to not believe in it and I encourage anyone to jump off a 10 story building to demonstrate their faith.
Posted By: jdm953 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
I idea that if I let go of something and it will hit the ground is pretty much a fact.The reason for it may be a theory but its happening is fact.I can watch it over and over.
Posted By: 19352012 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
I came in here hoping to see pictures of an attractive lady and here its old dudes arguing points they can't prove and no one will ever agree with them. Leaving saddened.
Posted By: justin10mm Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
Originally Posted by jdm953
I idea that if I let go of something and it will hit the ground is pretty much a fact.The reason for it may be a theory but its happening is fact.I can watch it over and over.


Exactly! Evolution can be observed in much the same way. For all intents and purposes it is cold hard fact.
Posted By: jdm953 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/11/16
No it cant.Who is going to live long enough to watch it.You cant call it a fact.You can tell why you choose to believe it it,so can chicken little(it hit him in the head).
Posted By: justin10mm Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
We can see the enormous amount of physical evidence that supports it.
Posted By: jdm953 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
You can believe in anything you want.Chicken little had all the evidence he needed also.You seem to have all the evidence you need,thats fine.Some folks have all the evidence they need to to believe in aliens ect.ect.ect.You seem to think that your evidence should mean the same to everyone else that it means to you,why is that?
Originally Posted by justin10mm
We can see the enormous amount of physical evidence that supports it.
Posted By: Valsdad Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by 19352012
I came in here hoping to see pictures of an attractive lady and here its old dudes arguing points they can't prove and no one will ever agree with them. Leaving saddened.


193...,

please peruse the .223 AI thread which you will find in the miscellaneous forum at the bottom of the forum list.

There is no shortage of "attractive" ladies there, most of the "old dudes" participating in that discussion may argue at times over the attractiveness of a particular "lady", but they usually find a few to agree on.

You will thank me for this information if you have not already visited that part of our wonderful campfire.

Geno

PS, I hear there are a couple of guys old enough down there to have seen the beginning of evolution. Or if not that old, they were around to edit the first edition of the "Book".

PSS, I may be one of those old guys soon. blush
Posted By: Valsdad Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
To further this discussion,

How do "we" know God is a "he"?

Is there physical evidence to support that line of thinking?

Geno
Posted By: acooper1983 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
I believe in evolution a lot more than i believe in a bunch of books that have been translated a ton of times, and by kings who picked out the parts that benefitted them, etc etc. Like it or not, were all probably descended of black ape like african tree dwellers, sometime in the last 1.5 million years or so.
Posted By: tzone Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Well then wear shorts when you die, it's going to be hot. grin
Posted By: john843 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by gitem_12
So if we evolved from apes, of which there are millions of today, and millions of humans today...what happened to the supposed ones in between?




The large majority seem to be here on the 'fire.
Posted By: jdm953 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Some folks confuse evidence with proof.
Posted By: WGM Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
What's wrong with believing that both are correct? God created life and humans as part of that ... and over time, we have evolved from how we were created then, into what we are now?

No need for anyone to have to fight over which is true, then they are not mutually exclusive conditions.
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
stevelyn,

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As species evolved into a new and improved models, the inferior ones died off because they couldn't adapt or compete.


The belief in evolution, like creation, is a belief system. Facts are different. Here is something to consider:
"Using this known data about mutation rates, a variety of researcher have used computer simulations to model the accumulation of mutations in the human genome over time. It was found that over 90% of harmful mutations fail to be removed over time and are passed on to subsequent generations."

Emphasis by the writers.

These results were developed from both evolutionists and creationist.

What this shows is natural selection does NOT eliminate harmful mutations. Certainly this would apply to all species.
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Middlefork_Miner,

Quote
We didn't evolve from apes...though related, we're a different species...Just like [bleep] c h i m p a n zees are related but an entirely different species than Gorillas...At some point in the history of planet, we Probably were the same species...we also share genetic DNA with pigs & other mammals. We're in our infancy in figuring it all out, but I suspect that if mankind can survive for another couple thousand years, we'll have a much better grasp on the origins & evolution of life...


We share 50% of our DNA with bananas. All that proves is 50% of our DNA and a banana are the same. Without counting I would bet big money that 75% of the letters in your post and mine are the same. That proves nothing other than we use most of the same letters. Your post and mine came from an intelligent mind. (I use the term loosely here.) There is evidence all life came from an intelligent mind. Scientific info suggests order can not come from chaos.
Posted By: AcesNeights Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
What type of genetic mutation is passed along? An insertion of a protein or a deletion? A mutation can itself be evidence of evolution.
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
ConradCA,

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It is not an opinion. It is supported by millions of facts and is logically consistent. I believe that the way people should think about this is that God created animals and people using evolution.


This is patently false. Evolution is NOT supported by millions of facts. Creationist and evolutionist have the same facts. It's a matter of interpretation.

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The description of creation in the bible is the best that the people who wrote the bible could do without science. I am a believer in: give unto God what is God's and give unto scientists what is science.


The theory of evolution was developed to get away from The Creator. The vast majority of scientists who brought us out of the dark ages were creationists. If you lay out the theory of evolution next to the Bible creation story you see contradiction after contradiction.

The idea the ancients were ignorant compared to us is falsified by the pyramids and walls in central and South America. We don't know how they achieved these feats. I remember reading about a brass spring found in some sedimentary rock. Some scientists put a modern spring and the brass spring in a machine. After a few million moves the steel spring broke. They put another steel spring in there and the same thing happened. The unknown manufactured brass spring lasted millions of times longer than our best steel springs. Another artifact was a pick found in sedimentary rock. It should have been rusted, but it wasn't. They discovered it was combined with chlorine instead of carbon like we do today.

Out Of Place Artifacts is a fairly new science. For me the artifacts are not out of place. Modern man is so full of himself because we have by and large been brainwashed since watching cartoon through graduate school and here on the social net that we are more intelligent than ancient man.
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Dutch,

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Point of order, but Biblical creation is a belief, evolution is a theory.


It's only that way to a brainwashed person. They are both faith positions. No one was there to observe either beginning. At least with Bible creation we can appeal to An Infinite Intelligent Energy. Evolution has to start with nothing producing something. Tell us which is more scientific: A result being greater than its cause or a cause being greater than its result.
Posted By: acooper1983 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by tzone
Well then wear shorts when you die, it's going to be hot. grin


ill class up the joint, its gonna be full of fire members and will need all the help it can get :-D
Posted By: kingston Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by justin10mm
Originally Posted by ironbender
These threads are never not fun!


The fact that in today's world there are still people that honestly think the earth is only 6000 years old is distressing to say the least.


This is not a fair characterization at all. It's not that the world is only 6000 years old, it's that the world has only been round for 6000 years. Before that it was flat. Anybody with an 8th grade education knows this...
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
jdm953,

Quote
I idea that if I let go of something and it will hit the ground is pretty much a fact.The reason for it may be a theory but its happening is fact.I can watch it over and over.


A creationists scientist discovered gravity.
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
19352012,

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I came in here hoping to see pictures of an attractive lady and here its old dudes arguing points they can't prove and no one will ever agree with them. Leaving saddened.


Speak for your group. I know some who have changed their minds.
Posted By: AcesNeights Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
It's not coincidence that ALL life starts as a single cell...
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Valsdad,

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To further this discussion,

How do "we" know God is a "he"?


God tells us He is a spirit and those who worship him worship Him in spirit and Truth. We have no idea Who or What exactly God is. We do know from history God is very loving and extremely harsh. Consider Noah's Flood and killing His Own Son.

Quote
Is there physical evidence to support that line of thinking?


At the same time God says He took on the form of a man and looked us in the eye experiencing the same things we experience without our faults. The most documented legal historical fact is the life death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. God, The Rule Maker, tells us if you don't accept His Gift of His Son, Jesus, He will be very offended. He will be so offended he will torment us for eternity. It is a Free Gift. But we must ask. Of course this requires something most of us don't even strive for: Humility!
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
acooper1983,

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I believe in evolution a lot more than i believe in a bunch of books that have been translated a ton of times,


Ever hear of the Dead Sea Scrolls? Your ignorance is showing.
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
WGM,

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What's wrong with believing that both are correct? God created life and humans as part of that ... and over time, we have evolved from how we were created then, into what we are now?

No need for anyone to have to fight over which is true, then they are not mutually exclusive conditions.


People who have not study say this sort of thing.
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
AcesNeights,

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What type of genetic mutation is passed along? An insertion of a protein or a deletion? A mutation can itself be evidence of evolution.


Here's the problem with mutations. They are like getting on a plane headed for Hawaii when you want to go to New York. You're going the wrong direction. There are no known beneficial mutations. I read just last week if the mutation rates stay at the present rate humans will be extinct in 2,000 years.
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
kingston,

Quote
This is not a fair characterization at all. It's not that the world is only 6000 years old, it's that the world has only been round for 6000 years. Before that it was flat. Anybody with an 8th grade education knows this...


Here's the problem with your belief. The book reputed to be the oldest in the Bible teaches the earth is round. Columbus was a Christian who believed his Bible. He was convinced he could sail to India by sailing WEST despite it being east of where he was.
Posted By: AcesNeights Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Mutations are evolution. Mutations that are compatible with life are potential evolutionary traits being expressed. The first fish with legs was laughed at by all his aquatic friends until the ocean conditions changed.

Have you read the book The Science of God by Gerald Schroeder?
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
AcesNeights,

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It's not coincidence that ALL life starts as a single cell...


It's called design. Based on all the scientific tests since scientific tests started hundreds of years ago life comes from life.
Posted By: AcesNeights Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
I agree. That first single cell created by God, by his design evolved into life forms that have been extinct for millions of years and yet life continues to evolve into other life forms.
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
AcesNeights,

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Mutations are evolution.


Mutations are mistakes in the DNA. They are NOT evolution in the mice to men scenario.

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Mutations that are compatible with life are potential evolutionary traits being expressed.


What beneficial mutations are you familiar with that can be passed on to the next generation? All scientific tests show there is a limit to how much change is in the DNA. If it goes beyond that the fetus aborts.

Quote
The first fish with legs was laughed at by all his aquatic friends until the ocean conditions changed.


Were you there? What a silly anthropomorphisaion.
Posted By: AcesNeights Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Malaria resistance.

TOne of the genes that governs bone density in human beings is called low-density lipoprotein receptor-related protein 5, or LRP5 for short. Mutations which impair the function of LRP5 are known to cause osteoporosis. But a different kind of mutation can amplify its function, causing one of the most unusual human mutations known.

This mutation was first discovered fortuitously, when a young person from a Midwest family was in a serious car crash from which they walked away with no broken bones. X-rays found that they, as well as other members of the same family, had bones significantly stronger and denser than average. (One doctor who's studied the condition said, "None of those people, ranging in age from 3 to 93, had ever had a broken bone.") In fact, they seem resistant not just to injury, but to normal age-related skeletal degeneration. Some of them have benign bony growths on the roof of their mouths, but other than that, the condition has no side effects - although, as the article notes dryly, it does make it more difficult to float. As with Apo-AIM, some drug companies are researching how to use this as the basis for a therapy that could help people with osteoporosis and other skeletal diseases.he classic example of evolutionary change in humans is the hemoglobin mutation named HbS that makes red blood cells take on a curved, sickle-like shape. With one copy, it confers resistance to malaria, but with two copies, it causes the illness of sickle-cell anemia. This is not about that mutation.

As reported in 2001 (see also), Italian researchers studying the population of the African country of Burkina Faso found a protective effect associated with a different variant of hemoglobin, named HbC. People with just one copy of this gene are 29% less likely to get malaria, while people with two copies enjoy a 93% reduction in risk. And this gene variant causes, at worst, a mild anemia, nowhere near as debilitating as sickle-cell disease.


Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
AcesNeights,

Quote
I agree. That first single cell created by God, by his design evolved into life forms that have been extinct for millions of years and yet life continues to evolve into other life forms.


What evidence do you have for this statement? Certainly not the way the God of the Bible created. God says He created everything fully developed and ready to function in its present condition; except for the degradation God forced on His creation. Death does not create. God says the last enemy that will be destroyed is death. God says, "By sin death entered the creation."
Posted By: AcesNeights Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
A mutation is almost exclusively an insertion or deletion of a protein in the DNA sequence. To think that all mutations are bad or deleterious to the host is incorrect. They certainly can be harmful or fatal but aren't always.

Sherpas are born with substantially larger lungs than non Sherpas. That's an evolutionary change not a function of acclimatization.
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
AcesNeights,

Quote
Malaria resistance.


If both parents have cycle cell anemia all their child do not survive.

Quote
This mutation was first discovered fortuitously, when a young person from a Midwest family was in a serious car crash from which they walked away with no broken bones. X-rays found that they, as well as other members of the same family, had bones significantly stronger and denser than average. (One doctor who's studied the condition said, "None of those people, ranging in age from 3 to 93, had ever had a broken bone.")


Remember I mentioned the evolutionist and the creationist have the same info. You and I see the info about the bones differently. I see what the majority have is the result of a deleterious mutation causing weaker bones. The family you sighted is like two of my friends. Both of them can see what normal people see with 7X binoculars. One can see in the dark almost the same as we see in the day.

Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
AcesNeights,

Quote
A mutation is almost exclusively an insertion or deletion of a protein in the DNA sequence. To think that all mutations are bad or deleterious to the host is incorrect. They certainly can be harmful or fatal but aren't always.


That is your preferred belief. It is not supported by investigative science.

Quote
Sherpas are born with substantially larger lungs than non Sherpas. That's an evolutionary change not a function of acclimatization.


See the above statement about my friends who can see like 7X binoculars. Those who had the good lungs survived and kept up with the group. Those who didn't didn't and died.
Posted By: Calvin Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
I honestly don't care what other folks believe. I'm sure most of my hunting buddies adhere to evolution and that's fine. There is a reason why my beliefs require faith.
Posted By: djs Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by tzone
My daughter came home today and I asked her what she did at school. She was telling me about science, and how they're learning about Evoloution. I asked her if she believes in eveoloition and she said "no God did it."

She said her teacher also said "I don't believe in this but I have to teach it to you anyway."


I'll be dipped...


I used to think evolution was a natural progression of man. But, after reading some of the postings on this forum, I know that some here have not evolved since God created Neanderthals! smile
Posted By: kwg020 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by ro1459
I am simple minded when it comes to this discussion. I simply look at the growth of humans in the womb from egg to birth. That is clearly an evolving process. I believe God created all life, but question if he created it to remain as first introduced. Could he just as easily have created us to evolve on Earth, as in the womb, to become what we are today. In my mind, both evolution and creation are in conjunction with each other and both support the others point of view. And, I thank God every day for this wonderful gift.


This.

kwg
Posted By: GeorgiaBoy Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by ConradCA
The scientific evidence supporting evolution is overwhelming and logically consistent. The men who wrote the bible may have been inspired by God, but had no understanding of science or the scientific method and attempted to answer the mystery of the origins of life. We should understand that they did their best at this problem, but we know better.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...Search/true/Evolution_Proof?#Post8255381


Not so!

Science does not support Darwinian Evolution. Hence the term "theory."





Darwinian Evolution fails to explain the evolution of the different "kinds" of cratures.
Posted By: luv2safari Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by WGM
What's wrong with believing that both are correct? God created life and humans as part of that ... and over time, we have evolved from how we were created then, into what we are now?

No need for anyone to have to fight over which is true, then they are not mutually exclusive conditions.


What happened over eons to us could well have happened in "the blink of an eye" to any God or first mover.

Time is relative, and any discussion of evolution should keep sight of that.

Ever think that just maybe our universe it a mere speck of dust in a larger one? shocked
Posted By: luv2safari Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by kingston
Originally Posted by justin10mm
Originally Posted by ironbender
These threads are never not fun!


The fact that in today's world there are still people that honestly think the earth is only 6000 years old is distressing to say the least.


This is not a fair characterization at all. It's not that the world is only 6000 years old, it's that the world has only been round for 6000 years. Before that it was flat. Anybody with an 8th grade education knows this...


LMAO!!! laugh laugh


wink
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
ro1459,

Quote
I am simple minded when it comes to this discussion. I simply look at the growth of humans in the womb from egg to birth. That is clearly an evolving process. I believe God created all life, but question if he created it to remain as first introduced. Could he just as easily have created us to evolve on Earth, as in the womb, to become what we are today.


You are conflating the word "evolution" in this paragraph. In your first use I agree completely with the word because it is merely change according to a program. The other use is molecules to man which is not supported by observation.

Quote
In my mind, both evolution and creation are in conjunction with each other and both support the others point of view. And, I thank God every day for this wonderful gift.


You say this because you don't take God at His Word. You want to elevate man's opinion above God's Word because you've heard evolution since cartoons. Once I had a conversation with a college educated friend. I asked, "Are you an evolutionist or a creationist?" He said, "I haven't given it any thought." "Then you are an evolutionist," I continued, "because believing in creation requires thought to over come all the brainwashing from years of evolutionary indoctrination."
Posted By: luv2safari Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by Ringman
ro1459,

Quote
I am simple minded when it comes to this discussion. I simply look at the growth of humans in the womb from egg to birth. That is clearly an evolving process. I believe God created all life, but question if he created it to remain as first introduced. Could he just as easily have created us to evolve on Earth, as in the womb, to become what we are today.


You are conflating the word "evolution" in this paragraph. In your first use I agree completely with the word because it is merely change according to a program. The other use is molecules to man which is not supported by observation.

Quote
In my mind, both evolution and creation are in conjunction with each other and both support the others point of view. And, I thank God every day for this wonderful gift.


You say this because you don't take God at His Word. You want to elevate man's opinion above God's Word because you've heard evolution since cartoons. Once I had a conversation with a college educated friend. I asked, "Are you an evolutionist or a creationist?" He said, "I haven't given it any thought." "Then you are an evolutionist," I continued, "because believing in creation requires thought to over come all the brainwashing from years of evolutionary indoctrination."


As opposed to your religious indoctrination...
Posted By: GeorgiaBoy Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
I agree that people often do choose their own form of indoctrination...
Posted By: ihookem Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Ok, I hear people all the time say Christians are wrong when we tell how it began. The evolutionists pick it apart, we defend it but I have NEVER heard an evolutionist tell anyone exactly how it happened. Tell me , and I will pick it apart to no end. Carry on , now it's our turn. Oh, and start from the beginning , and not some long brain dead a hole atheist that out argued a creationist. . I want evidence and proof. If you have no evidence and proof , it is indeed a theory, but it is portrayed as PROOF in the public schools, by the same liberals that believe we came form apes, a star blew up , or some dumb assz idea from some dumb asszz that will no doubt vote for Bernie or Hillary and believe we should give up our guns. Now, start from the beginning on how it all started and I will pick it apart to no end.
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
luv2safari,

Quote
As opposed to your religious indoctrination...


You don't get it. Because I did so much reading I discovered all evolutionary positions are refuted by another evolutionist. It took a lot of reading to conclude there is an Infinite Intelligent Energy. After a few years the faith I had in evolution came to rest on the God of the Bible. I was "indoctrinated", not from the schools like my good buddy, but rather by my own research.

That's why I occasionally challenge evolutionists to come up with a Ph.D creationist physical scientist (not a theologian or philosopher) who became an evolutionist and I will come up with a hundred Ph.D evolutionists who became creationist from the field research and laboratory work.
Posted By: Rooster7 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
I think God is just the best scientist ever. He created us and let us evolve.

The evolution from monkeys is a bunch of crap! Unless your from Ferguson, MO and the like...
Originally Posted by gitem_12
So if we evolved from apes, of which there are millions of today, and millions of humans today...what happened to the supposed ones in between?


We evolved from a common ancestor, and over 99% of all species have gone extinct.
Posted By: AcesNeights Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Believing in a theory does NOT mean one doesn't also believe in God. I believe evolution is part of Gods ultimate design. To deny that God could provide the mechanism for animals to survive and adapt to external variables is selling God short. To believe that we know more than God does or that we understand fully what God does is pretty bold.

Were dinosaurs real? If so was man walking with them? Is the earth less than 10,000 years old?
Posted By: GeoW Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
If everything was created as it exist today, everything would fit into place... As to a missing link... It was never missing, been here since beginning of time, just a little closer kin to the ape, both mentally and physically.
Posted By: Bluemonday Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by gitem_12
So if we evolved from apes, of which there are millions of today, and millions of humans today...what happened to the supposed ones in between?



Ahh, those progenitors are called "transitional forms", the fossils of which Darwin was certain would be unearthed post haste.


They're still looking for them......

Every once in a while one turns up.

Posted By: Bluemonday Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by gitem_12
So if we evolved from apes, of which there are millions of today, and millions of humans today...what happened to the supposed ones in between?


We evolved from a common ancestor, and over 99% of all species have gone extinct.


Which demostrates the laws of Thermodynamics, and flies in the face of Evolutionary Theory.
Originally Posted by Bluemonday
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by gitem_12
So if we evolved from apes, of which there are millions of today, and millions of humans today...what happened to the supposed ones in between?


We evolved from a common ancestor, and over 99% of all species have gone extinct.


Which demostrates the laws of Thermodynamics, and flies in the face of Evolutionary Theory.


The earth is not a closed system, and there is nothing about species going extinct that is contrary to the Theory of Evolution.
Posted By: Bluemonday Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Bluemonday
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by gitem_12
So if we evolved from apes, of which there are millions of today, and millions of humans today...what happened to the supposed ones in between?


We evolved from a common ancestor, and over 99% of all species have gone extinct.


Which demostrates the laws of Thermodynamics, and flies in the face of Evolutionary Theory.


The earth is not a closed system, and there is nothing about species going extinct that is contrary to the Theory of Evolution.



BULLSCHIDT.
Originally Posted by Bluemonday
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Bluemonday
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by gitem_12
So if we evolved from apes, of which there are millions of today, and millions of humans today...what happened to the supposed ones in between?


We evolved from a common ancestor, and over 99% of all species have gone extinct.


Which demostrates the laws of Thermodynamics, and flies in the face of Evolutionary Theory.


The earth is not a closed system, and there is nothing about species going extinct that is contrary to the Theory of Evolution.



BULLSCHIDT.


So you are asserting the earth is a closed system?
Posted By: justin10mm Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by Bluemonday
Originally Posted by gitem_12
So if we evolved from apes, of which there are millions of today, and millions of humans today...what happened to the supposed ones in between?



Ahh, those progenitors are called "transitional forms", the fossils of which Darwin was certain would be unearthed post haste.


They're still looking for them......

Every once in a while one turns up.



It must get lonely living in your own little world.
Posted By: Bluemonday Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
.


So you are asserting the earth is a closed system? [/quote]

Of course not. I have a time machine on the back porch. I've also been all over the Universe, ain't you?
Posted By: Rooster7 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Holy fugk T. You got one going here huh? lol
Posted By: Akbob5 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
TZ, good to hear. Good on the teacher and good on you all for doing a great job of raising young ones.

Posted By: Rooster7 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
^^^^
This
Originally Posted by Bluemonday
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
.


So you are asserting the earth is a closed system?


Of course not. I have a time machine on the back porch. I've also been all over the Universe, ain't you?[/quote]

Grandpa, it's time for you to put down the Ghost Train Haze and go to bed.
Posted By: justin10mm Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by Akbob5
TZ, good to hear. Good on the teacher and hood on you all for doing a great job of raising young ones.



Sure, don't encourage and nurture a child's critical thinking skills. If there is a question you can't understand, don't think about it rationally, because the answer obviously is "God did it"!
Posted By: JBGQUICK Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
I believe in evolution and am also a creationist. There is no inconsistency in the steps in creation in Genesis and scientific theory, only in literal interpretationists insistence that words like 'day' meant something to a tmmeless (that is what omnipresent means) God or that nothing can be different than their opinion (which is ego not faith driven)
Originally Posted by JBGQUICK
I believe in evolution and am also a creationist. There is no inconsistency in the steps in creation in Genesis and scientific theory, only in literal interpretationists insistence that words like 'day' meant something to a tmmeless (that is what omnipresent means) God or that nothing can be different than their opinion (which is ego not faith driven)


So you read the Bible like a progressive reads the Constitution? Words just have no meaning.
Posted By: Strick9 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
I see no harm in believing in Evolution or the Big Bang.

I just know that God created evolution and was the creator of the Big Bang.

Pretty simple if you ask me.

But then again I had the blessing of getting to spend about 8 minutes with my Creator.

Still haven't figured out why he sent me back. His plan not mine is what matters, this I know. There is no one or anything that can or will change this knowledge.

If anyone who is in doubt and might want to talk about my experience then please feel free to reach out via pm.
Posted By: 1minute Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Evolution is simply an ongoing process, and an extremely well documented one at that. No conflicts what so ever with all the varied versions of spontaneous creation.
Posted By: MojoHand Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Yep. That's how I want to raise kids. Just believe...because.

Incidentally, every religious apologetic argument ultimately reduces down to a Circular Argument from Ignorance.

Or...as I like to call it...IDKQEDGOD! grin

That is why you can never change a 'believer's' mind with factual data. It's also called confirmation bias...

First you believe...than you interpret... blush frown
Posted By: Akbob5 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by justin10mm
Originally Posted by Akbob5
TZ, good to hear. Good on the teacher and hood on you all for doing a great job of raising young ones.



Sure, don't encourage and nurture a child's critical thinking skills. If there is a question you can't understand, don't think about it rationally, because the answer obviously is "God did it"!


Dude,

Where the hell did that come from? I can assure you I nurtured all three of my boys to have a curious nature, to critically question everything, and to experience all they can in life. I'm doing the same to my grandchildren and to any other child I may come into contact with. I think I have a pretty good track record.

Please do not confuse my praise of someone's faith and positive influence towards children. I assure you that you don't know me well enough to make a judgement like that.
Originally Posted by Akbob5
Originally Posted by justin10mm
Originally Posted by Akbob5
TZ, good to hear. Good on the teacher and hood on you all for doing a great job of raising young ones.



Sure, don't encourage and nurture a child's critical thinking skills. If there is a question you can't understand, don't think about it rationally, because the answer obviously is "God did it"!


Dude,

Where the hell did that come from? I can assure you I nurtured all three of my boys to have a curious nature, to critically question everything, and to experience all they can in life. I'm doing the same to my grandchildren and to any other child I may come into contact with. I think I have a pretty good track record.

Please do not confuse my praise of someone's faith and positive influence towards children. I assure you that you don't know me well enough to make a judgement like that.


You are praising a teacher for her disbelief in evolution, and her replacement of science with religion. That pretty much supports 10mm position.
Posted By: GeorgiaBoy Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by 1minute
Evolution is simply an ongoing process, and an extremely well documented one at that. No conflicts what so ever with all the varied versions of spontaneous creation.


Actually there are conflicts. The Biblical Account of creation uses the work "kind". Fish after their kind, the creeping thing after its kind. Kind means separate and distinct.

Darwinian Evolution cannot account for the evolution of different kinds. I can only account for mutations within the same kind. A bird may develop a larger beak. However, it is still a bird...not a dog...which would be a different kind.





Posted By: luv2safari Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by Ringman
luv2safari,

Quote
As opposed to your religious indoctrination...


You don't get it. Because I did so much reading I discovered all evolutionary positions are refuted by another evolutionist. It took a lot of reading to conclude there is an Infinite Intelligent Energy. After a few years the faith I had in evolution came to rest on the God of the Bible. I was "indoctrinated", not from the schools like my good buddy, but rather by my own research.

That's why I occasionally challenge evolutionists to come up with a Ph.D creationist physical scientist (not a theologian or philosopher) who became an evolutionist and I will come up with a hundred Ph.D evolutionists who became creationist from the field research and laboratory work.


Counting your marbles again.

You and these "experts" are equating faith with science, and some are making money off ignorance born of blind faith, then the faithful take what they dream up as the "proof" you so desperately want.

There's no talking to anyone so steeped in their dogma. Believe what you wish. It doesn't really make one iota of difference, save for the minds wasted that could have become pioneers of science, had they not been brought up to think only inside the book.
Originally Posted by GeorgiaBoy
Originally Posted by 1minute
Evolution is simply an ongoing process, and an extremely well documented one at that. No conflicts what so ever with all the varied versions of spontaneous creation.


Actually there are conflicts. The Biblical Account of creation uses the work "kind". Fish after their kind, the creeping thing after its kind. Kind means separate and distinct.

Darwinian Evolution cannot account for the evolution of different kinds. I can only account for mutations within the same kind. A bird may develop a larger beak. However, it is still a bird...not a dog...which would be a different kind.


Stack those small changes over millions of generations, and the accumulation of those small changes becomes vast.
Posted By: justin10mm Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by Akbob5
Originally Posted by justin10mm
Originally Posted by Akbob5
TZ, good to hear. Good on the teacher and hood on you all for doing a great job of raising young ones.



Sure, don't encourage and nurture a child's critical thinking skills. If there is a question you can't understand, don't think about it rationally, because the answer obviously is "God did it"!


Dude,

Where the hell did that come from? I can assure you I nurtured all three of my boys to have a curious nature, to critically question everything, and to experience all they can in life. I'm doing the same to my grandchildren and to any other child I may come into contact with. I think I have a pretty good track record.

Please do not confuse my praise of someone's faith and positive influence towards children. I assure you that you don't know me well enough to make a judgement like that.


Chill bro,

Don't take stuff so personally.
Posted By: Akbob5 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Akbob5
Originally Posted by justin10mm
Originally Posted by Akbob5
TZ, good to hear. Good on the teacher and hood on you all for doing a great job of raising young ones.



Sure, don't encourage and nurture a child's critical thinking skills. If there is a question you can't understand, don't think about it rationally, because the answer obviously is "God did it"!


Dude,

Where the hell did that come from? I can assure you I nurtured all three of my boys to have a curious nature, to critically question everything, and to experience all they can in life. I'm doing the same to my grandchildren and to any other child I may come into contact with. I think I have a pretty good track record.

Please do not confuse my praise of someone's faith and positive influence towards children. I assure you that you don't know me well enough to make a judgement like that.


You are praising a teacher for her disbelief in evolution, and her replacement of science with religion. That pretty much supports 10mm position.


I was speaking to his comment about judging me and whether I nurture children's critical thinking skills. Could give a schitt less who thinks what about evolution.
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Yep. That's how I want to raise kids. Just believe...because.

Incidentally, every evolutionist apologetic argument ultimately reduces down to a Circular Argument from Ignorant prejudice.

Or...as I like to call it...IDKQEDGOD! grin

That is why you can never change a 'believer's' mind with factual data. It's also called confirmation bias...

First you believe...than you interpret... blush

It's a result of world view. It's what we use to interpret facts.
Posted By: Bluemonday Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by luv2safari


You and these "experts" are equating faith with science, and some are making money off ignorance born of blind faith, then the faithful take what they dream up as the "proof" you so desperately want.

There's no talking to anyone so steeped in their dogma. Believe what you wish. It doesn't really make one iota of difference, save for the minds wasted that could have become pioneers of science, had they not been brought up to think only inside the book.


Exactly, like this Ph.D Biochemist who says Darwin was FOS. SOOOOO dogmatic. Behe is NOT a creationist, he's a Roman Catholic. The Church of Rome has no dog in the creationist fight.
Posted By: justin10mm Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by Akbob5
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Akbob5
Originally Posted by justin10mm
Originally Posted by Akbob5
TZ, good to hear. Good on the teacher and hood on you all for doing a great job of raising young ones.



Sure, don't encourage and nurture a child's critical thinking skills. If there is a question you can't understand, don't think about it rationally, because the answer obviously is "God did it"!


Dude,

Where the hell did that come from? I can assure you I nurtured all three of my boys to have a curious nature, to critically question everything, and to experience all they can in life. I'm doing the same to my grandchildren and to any other child I may come into contact with. I think I have a pretty good track record.

Please do not confuse my praise of someone's faith and positive influence towards children. I assure you that you don't know me well enough to make a judgement like that.


You are praising a teacher for her disbelief in evolution, and her replacement of science with religion. That pretty much supports 10mm position.


I was speaking to his comment about judging me and whether I nurture children's critical thinking skills. Could give a schitt less who thinks what about evolution.


When I said "you" I didn't mean you specifically. I was referring to anyone that would place religiously held beliefs over science and reason.
Originally Posted by Bluemonday
Originally Posted by luv2safari


You and these "experts" are equating faith with science, and some are making money off ignorance born of blind faith, then the faithful take what they dream up as the "proof" you so desperately want.

There's no talking to anyone so steeped in their dogma. Believe what you wish. It doesn't really make one iota of difference, save for the minds wasted that could have become pioneers of science, had they not been brought up to think only inside the book.


Exactly, like this Ph.D Biochemist who says Darwin was FOS. SOOOOO dogmatic. Behe is NOT a creationist, he's a Roman Catholic. The Church of Rome has no dog in the creationist fight.


Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District
Originally Posted by Ringman
Yep. That's how I want to raise kids. Just believe...because.

Incidentally, every evolutionist apologetic argument ultimately reduces down to a Circular Argument from Ignorant prejudice.

Or...as I like to call it...IDKQEDGOD! grin

That is why you can never change a 'believer's' mind with factual data. It's also called confirmation bias...

First you believe...than you interpret... blush

It's a result of world view. It's what we use to interpret facts.


We have the fossils, and the DNA.

You loose.
Posted By: Bluemonday Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Sniper you are FOS, there are no "transitional forms". They don't exist, and the paleontologists know it.
Posted By: AcesNeights Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Ringman---How old do you believe the earth is?
Posted By: Bluemonday Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
Ringman---How old do you believe the earth is?


How old do YOU think it is?
Posted By: GeorgiaBoy Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by GeorgiaBoy
Originally Posted by 1minute
Evolution is simply an ongoing process, and an extremely well documented one at that. No conflicts what so ever with all the varied versions of spontaneous creation.


Actually there are conflicts. The Biblical Account of creation uses the work "kind". Fish after their kind, the creeping thing after its kind. Kind means separate and distinct.

Darwinian Evolution cannot account for the evolution of different kinds. I can only account for mutations within the same kind. A bird may develop a larger beak. However, it is still a bird...not a dog...which would be a different kind.


Stack those small changes over millions of generations, and the accumulation of those small changes becomes vast.


Speculation...not conclusive. Darwinian Evolution depends solely on time and chance. Which excludes if from scientific fact...it does not meet the scientific method. I cannot be observed, nor can it be replicated by another scientific experiment using the same protocol.


Originally Posted by Bluemonday
Sniper you are FOS, there are no "transitional forms". They don't exist, and the paleontologists know it.


TAK can change his name, but he's still as stupid as ever:

The following are fossil transitions between species and genera:

Human ancestry. There are many fossils of human ancestors, and the differences between species are so gradual that it is not always clear where to draw the lines between them.

The horns of titanotheres (extinct Cenozoic mammals) appear in progressively larger sizes, from nothing to prominence. Other head and neck features also evolved. These features are adaptations for head-on ramming analogous to sheep behavior (Stanley 1974).

A gradual transitional fossil sequence connects the foraminifera Globigerinoides trilobus and Orbulina universa (Pearson et al. 1997). O. universa, the later fossil, features a spherical test surrounding a "Globigerinoides-like" shell, showing that a feature was added, not lost. The evidence is seen in all major tropical ocean basins. Several intermediate morphospecies connect the two species, as may be seen in the figure included in Lindsay (1997).

The fossil record shows transitions between species of Phacops (a trilobite; Phacops rana is the Pennsylvania state fossil; Eldredge 1972; 1974; Strapple 1978).

Planktonic forminifera (Malmgren et al. 1984). This is an example of punctuated gradualism. A ten-million-year foraminifera fossil record shows long periods of stasis and other periods of relatively rapid but still gradual morphologic change.

Fossils of the diatom Rhizosolenia are very common (they are mined as diatomaceous earth), and they show a continuous record of almost two million years which includes a record of a speciation event (Miller 1999, 44-45).

Lake Turkana mollusc species (Lewin 1981).

Cenozoic marine ostracodes (Cronin 1985).

The Eocene primate genus Cantius (Gingerich 1976, 1980, 1983).

Scallops of the genus Chesapecten show gradual change in one "ear" of their hinge over about 13 million years. The ribs also change (Pojeta and Springer 2001; Ward and Blackwelder 1975).

Gryphaea (coiled oysters) become larger and broader but thinner and flatter during the Early Jurassic (Hallam 1968).

The following are fossil transitionals between families, orders, and classes:

Human ancestry. Australopithecus, though its leg and pelvis bones show it walked upright, had a bony ridge on the forearm, probably vestigial, indicative of knuckle walking (Richmond and Strait 2000).

Dinosaur-bird transitions.

Haasiophis terrasanctus is a primitive marine snake with well-developed hind limbs. Although other limbless snakes might be more ancestral, this fossil shows a relationship of snakes with limbed ancestors (Tchernov et al. 2000). Pachyrhachis is another snake with legs that is related to Haasiophis (Caldwell and Lee 1997).

The jaws of mososaurs are also intermediate between snakes and lizards. Like the snake's stretchable jaws, they have highly flexible lower jaws, but unlike snakes, they do not have highly flexible upper jaws. Some other skull features of mososaurs are intermediate between snakes and primitive lizards (Caldwell and Lee 1997; Lee et al. 1999; Tchernov et al. 2000).

Transitions between mesonychids and whales.

Transitions between fish and tetrapods.

Transitions from condylarths (a kind of land mammal) to fully aquatic modern manatees. In particular, Pezosiren portelli is clearly a sirenian, but its hind limbs and pelvis are unreduced (Domning 2001a, 2001b).

Runcaria, a Middle Devonian plant, was a precursor to seed plants. It had all the qualities of seeds except a solid seed coat and a system to guide pollen to the seed (Gerrienne et al. 2004).

A bee, Melittosphex burmensis, from Early Cretaceous amber, has primitive characteristics expected from a transition between crabronid wasps and extant bees (Poinar and Danforth 2006).

The following are fossil transitionals between kingdoms and phyla:

The Cambrian fossils Halkiera and Wiwaxia have features that connect them with each other and with the modern phyla of Mollusca, Brachiopoda, and Annelida. In particular, one species of halkieriid has brachiopod-like shells on the dorsal side at each end. This is seen also in an immature stage of the living brachiopod species Neocrania. It has setae identical in structure to polychaetes, a group of annelids. Wiwaxia and Halkiera have the same basic arrangement of hollow sclerites, an arrangement that is similar to the chaetae arrangement of polychaetes. The undersurface of Wiwaxia has a soft sole like a mollusk's foot, and its jaw looks like a mollusk's mouth. Aplacophorans, which are a group of primitive mollusks, have a soft body covered with spicules similar to the sclerites of Wiwaxia (Conway Morris 1998, 185-195).

Cambrian and Precambrain fossils Anomalocaris and Opabinia are transitional between arthropods and lobopods.

An ancestral echinoderm has been found that is intermediate between modern echinoderms and other deuterostomes (Shu et al. 2004).
Posted By: GeorgiaBoy Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Ringman
Yep. That's how I want to raise kids. Just believe...because.

Incidentally, every evolutionist apologetic argument ultimately reduces down to a Circular Argument from Ignorant prejudice.

Or...as I like to call it...IDKQEDGOD! grin

That is why you can never change a 'believer's' mind with factual data. It's also called confirmation bias...

First you believe...than you interpret... blush

It's a result of world view. It's what we use to interpret facts.


We have the fossils, and the DNA.

You loose.



Neither prove Darwinian Evaluation.
Posted By: Bluemonday Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by GeorgiaBoy


Darwinian Evolution cannot account for the evolution of different kinds.


Actually they can, or so they think. Stephan Jay Gould's Punctuated Equilibria BS (referred to by fellow evolutionists as the "hopeful monster" theory) postulated that, since Darwin's suppositious "transitional forms" have never turned up, they never existed in the first place.

He went even further into left field and and concocted the theory that dinosaurs literally gave birth to birds, and somewhere else another dinosaur gave birth to another bird, and somehow the two birds found each other......
Posted By: kingston Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Again...

It's not that the world is only 6000 years old, it's that the world has only been round for 6000 years. Before that it was flat.
Posted By: Bluemonday Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Bluemonday
Sniper you are FOS, there are no "transitional forms". They don't exist, and the paleontologists know it.




The following are fossil transitions between species and genera:

Human ancestry. There are many fossils of human ancestors, and the differences between species are so gradual that it is not always clear where to draw the lines between them.

The horns of titanotheres (extinct Cenozoic mammals) appear in progressively larger sizes, from nothing to prominence. Other head and neck features also evolved. These features are adaptations for head-on ramming analogous to sheep behavior (Stanley 1974).



Moron. Mammals, who started out as mammals, had different sized horns. Really? Porn stars have bigger cocks than mine, are they "evolved".

Your "human ancestry" differences are "so gradual" because they don't exist.

I could go down the list of your copy and paste, most of which you are utterly clueless of, but ignorant people bore me.
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Quote
We have the fossils, and the DNA.

You loose.


What kind of answer is that!?

Fossils can be formed quickly and are in fact are produced every year. And DNA: According to Information Science information can only come from a mind. Like your statement above didn't come from random activity on a key pad.

Back to fossils. Fossil are found in sedimentary rock; all over the world. Fossils are fantastic evidence for a world wide flood. We either have a world wide flood or a geological column. The problem with a geological column is the claims of the hundreds of millions of years age for them. According to geologist the average length of time it would take for a continents to erode into the ocean is 14,000,000 years. All the fossils would have eroded into dust and been settled on the ocean floor. All the geostatic pressure we used to see at oil wells would have dissipated millennial ago. In fact if the oil was hundreds of millions of years old, it would have eroded along with the continents.

One Ph.D chemistry professor in lecture said oil and coal are formed quickly or not form at all. He was not talking in geological terms when he said quickly. He was talking in days and explained it.
Posted By: kingston Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Ringman, Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not sure what your goal is in this thread and threads like it. I like you. You are a gentleman and I enjoy many of your posts, but your understanding of geology, plate tectonics, the basic tenets of paleontology, the history of science, and modern history interferes with your ability to develop a consistently coherent and rational world view. I appreciate your passion for these topics, but the kind of discussion you seem to want to have requires a commitment to much more rigorous methods. At minimum, these would include clearly argued points supported with cited facts much like a_s did above. Anything less and both your position and credibility suffer catastrophically.
Posted By: Bluemonday Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by kingston
Ringman, Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not sure what your goal is in this thread and threads like it. I like you. You are a gentleman and I enjoy many of your posts, but your understanding of geology, plate tectonics, the basic tenets of paleontology, the history of science, and modern history interferes with your ability to develop a consistently coherent and rational world view. I appreciate your passion for these topics, but the kind of discussion you seem to want to have requires a commitment to much more rigorous methods. At minimum, these would include clearly argued points supported with cited facts much like a_s did above. Anything less and both your position and credibility suffer catastrophically.


You fuggin yankee prick. GFY. Ring doesn't posit himself as a scientist. He just has a functional BS detector. Why don't you rebuff some of my posts?
Posted By: luv2safari Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Originally Posted by Bluemonday
Originally Posted by kingston
Ringman, Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not sure what your goal is in this thread and threads like it. I like you. You are a gentleman and I enjoy many of your posts, but your understanding of geology, plate tectonics, the basic tenets of paleontology, the history of science, and modern history interferes with your ability to develop a consistently coherent and rational world view. I appreciate your passion for these topics, but the kind of discussion you seem to want to have requires a commitment to much more rigorous methods. At minimum, these would include clearly argued points supported with cited facts much like a_s did above. Anything less and both your position and credibility suffer catastrophically.


You fuggin yankee prick. GFY. Ring doesn't posit himself as a scientist. He just has a functional BS detector. Why don't you rebuff some of my posts?


I notice you f@ck yourself using your head up your azz. What a complete stupid moronic nutcase! You need help fella... crazy crazy crazy

...and, you crakers lost. Yankees kicked your butts clear up past your pinheads. My ancestors helped, proudly... 98th Regiment of the Illinois Volunteers. laugh
Posted By: kingston Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Bluemonday, Your posts are a mixture of emotionally charged ad hominem and half baked outbursts, neither of which tolerate rebuffing.
Posted By: Ringman Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
kingston,

Quote
Ringman, Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not sure what your goal is in this thread and threads like it. I like you. You are a gentleman and I enjoy many of your posts, but your understanding of geology, plate tectonics, the basic tenets of paleontology, the history of science, and modern history interferes with your ability to develop a consistently coherent and rational world view. I appreciate your passion for these topics, but the kind of discussion you seem to want to have requires a commitment to much more rigorous methods. At minimum, these would include clearly argued points supported with cited facts much like a_s did above. Anything less and both your position and credibility suffer catastrophically.


Thanks for you polite and concerned post. I don't claim to be educated. I received a GED when I was fifty-one years old. Over the years, before that and after, I have met a few scientists and learned a few things. Among them is to challenge people to support their claims with more of the old refuted by evolutionist claims. I remember in 1974 when Goldschmid or something like that came up with the "hopeful monster mechanism" because there were no positively identified transitional forms at the time. His colleagues ridiculed and badgered him over it. Now they call it punctuated equilibrium because there still are no water tight transitional forms that all evolutionist agree on.

If you want to know about plate tectonics you need to read someone besides evolutionists. I met a scientist who used to be an evolutionist. He had a Ph.D in hydraulics (water running). His study of the Grand Canyon convinced him he was wrong and concluded it was formed rapidly. He demonstrated his opinion with aerial photos and convinced many. Mount St Helens has a little canyon 140th the size of Grand Canyon. It was cut out of solid rock in one afternoon. If an evolutionary geologist was taken to that canyon and didn't know it was cut in a few hours he would say it took millenia at least, based on his flawed education.

You mentioned plate tectonics. I watched a video from the Sandia National Laboratories. It is not a Creationist bastion. The ran some programs to discover what would cause the world's mountain ranges. They discovered the plates would have to move at meters per second to bend the strata to form them. There are some huge bends in rocks demonstrated to have been formed while the the strata was still soft. These are evidence of a world wide flood.

Quote
Anything less and both your position and credibility suffer catastrophically.


My credibility is of no repute. The positions I posit are supported by good science, just not necessarily conforming to the evolutionary position. If you think my positions are so shaky get a masters degree or Ph.D scientist for a debate and I will get a Ph.D person to take the other side. The last debate he had, that I remember was with a biologist professor. When it came time for the rebuttal the evolutionist said, "There's nothing I can say to rebut Dr. Kindell."

I used to be an atheistic evolutionist. The facts didn't support my beliefs. I became a creationist and then a Christian and them a Biblical creationist. I constantly find circular reasoning in evolutionist who start with evolution as their starting point. The problem with that is they are pushed to a place where they have to believe nothing became something. The Bible creationist can appeal to an Infinite Intelligent Energy Who is capable of creating all that we see. This too is circular. But at least it is not irrational.
Posted By: luv2safari Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/12/16
Ringman,

You're well-read in your area of argument, I have to give you that, and please take it as a compliment.

While we'll never agree, we should agree that you're a man of Class.
Posted By: Valsdad Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/13/16
Originally Posted by Ringman
Valsdad,

Quote
To further this discussion,

How do "we" know God is a "he"?


God tells us He is a spirit and those who worship him worship Him in spirit and Truth. We have no idea Who or What exactly God is. We do know from history God is very loving and extremely harsh. Consider Noah's Flood and killing His Own Son.

Quote
Is there physical evidence to support that line of thinking?


At the same time God says He took on the form of a man and looked us in the eye experiencing the same things we experience without our faults. The most documented legal historical fact is the life death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. God, The Rule Maker, tells us if you don't accept His Gift of His Son, Jesus, He will be very offended. He will be so offended he will torment us for eternity. It is a Free Gift. But we must ask. Of course this requires something most of us don't even strive for: Humility!


Thanks for your reply Ringman,

I will echo what others have said regarding your decorum in the discussion of such a "hot topic".

I have to assume when you say " God tells us He is a spirit and those who worship him worship Him in spirit and Truth" that you are referring to Bible passages stating such? If you happen to have easy access to such a passage, could you please post it for me to read. I have no "old Testament" in my possession at the moment.

Again, as others have pointed out, one must "believe" the translations and interpretations of manuscripts written well after the occurrence of the events described in Genesis are correct and free from "human error" in order to "believe" that God tells us He is a "he".

And why are we to assume that the descriptions of those events are any truer than the creation events described in the following are any less valid?

http://indigenouspeople.net/creatlingit.htm

There are many similarities to the Hebrew creation story in that one, Raven releases light, and stars, and the moon (the heavens), makes the rivers, and even this:

"He made all the different races, as the Haida and the Tsimshian. They are human beings like the Thingit, but he made their languages different.

He also made the dog. It was at first a human being and did every thing Raven wanted done, but he was too quick with everything, so Raven took him by the neck and pushed him down, saying, "You are nothing but a dog. You shall have four legs."

" As he was traveling along in another place, a wild celery came out, became angry with Raven, and said, "You are always wandering around for things to eat." Then he named it wild celery (ya'naet) and said to it, "You shall stay there, and people shall eat you."


Mmmm, causing there to be different languages. Now where do I remember that type of thing?

And making animals and plants for "our" needs, sounds familiar too.

If we were to have originated in a place south of the equator we might wonder why the folks of the Hebrew tribe believe what they do when we have this to believe in:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030216144835/home.iprimus.com.au/lunetta/index-18.html

A small excerpt (red emphasis mine):

"Out of her stomach leaped all the animal tribes of the world, and all the spirit beings.

The sun leaped up into the sky to light the world for the tribes, and the moon jumped up to take his place in the night sky.

The Frog tribe started singing with delight as the blood of the Serpent flowed out of her body and into the channels cut by her travels, and into the deep chasms to become the sea. "

Again, sounds mighty familiar, but this time from a "she". The immediate creation of all the worlds animals, the lighting of the world and the creation of "the heavens" and the "waters".

Of course, based on what I was taught for many years, I am to "believe" that the Hebrew version is the correct one, because that version tells me it is so. And for some years passing perhaps "our" culture knew of no others, and afterwards when we became aware they were considered "gentile".

Seems like there are a number of different versions of the same "creation". Besides a self "authorizing" of "the Word" what evidence is there for a rational person to use to instill a belief in the idea that God is a "he"?


Geno

PS, the internet is a wonderful thing. I used to have to spend hours in a library to find information on other cultures creation stories. You might hazard a guess that I could come up with many more versions rather easily now.
Posted By: Bluemonday Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/13/16
Originally Posted by Valsdad


The Frog tribe started singing with delight as the blood of the Serpent flowed out of her body and into the channels cut by her travels, and into the deep chasms to become the sea. "

Again, sounds mighty familiar, but this time from a "she". The immediate creation of all the worlds animals, the lighting of the world and the creation of "the heavens" and the "waters".



Damn you're dumb. How's that for "decorum".


PS. When and if you bust Hell wide open, no one will miss you.

Whatever you do, don't bother to actually read an Old Testament, and attempt to verify the hundreds of prophecies therein that were fullfilled hundreds of years after the fact.
Posted By: AcesNeights Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/13/16
Ringman---I also appreciate your passion and your reasoned debate. I might not agree but I dam sure support your right to your opinion. I have asked a couple of times and you have not answered my question. The answer is important for establishing a baseline argument and further debate.

How old do you believe the earth is?
Posted By: GeorgiaBoy Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/13/16
Quote
PS. When and if you bust Hell wide open, no one will miss you.



P.S. There is nothing in your tone or content that suggests anything Christian.
Posted By: jdm953 Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/13/16
Search "Gap Theory"
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
Ringman---I also appreciate your passion and your reasoned debate. I might not agree but I dam sure support your right to your opinion. I have asked a couple of times and you have not answered my question. The answer is important for establishing a baseline argument and further debate.

How old do you believe the earth is?
Posted By: kingston Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/13/16
Has anyone here read The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell or watched Bill Moyers' documentary, Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth?

Posted By: Valsdad Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/13/16
Originally Posted by Bluemonday
Originally Posted by Valsdad


The Frog tribe started singing with delight as the blood of the Serpent flowed out of her body and into the channels cut by her travels, and into the deep chasms to become the sea. "

Again, sounds mighty familiar, but this time from a "she". The immediate creation of all the worlds animals, the lighting of the world and the creation of "the heavens" and the "waters".



Damn you're dumb. How's that for "decorum".


PS. When and if you bust Hell wide open, no one will miss you.

Whatever you do, don't bother to actually read an Old Testament, and attempt to verify the hundreds of prophecies therein that were fullfilled hundreds of years after the fact.


I may be misinformed, ignorant of all the pertinent facts, misguided, etc....

but those that know me, have taught me, and work with me generally do not consider me "dumb".

As I mentioned in my post to another member, I do not presently have an Old Testament where I am staying. Perhaps you could do a service (in the interest of spreading the word, that's something a good Christian should do, no?) and cite a few, lets say six or so, of those prophecies you mentioned.

Thanks for your kindness.

Geno

PS, regarding your postscript "PS. When and if you bust Hell wide open, no one will miss you." Do you know my family and friends well enough to back up your statement that "no one" will miss me?
Posted By: Valsdad Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/13/16
Originally Posted by GeorgiaBoy
Quote
PS. When and if you bust Hell wide open, no one will miss you.



P.S. There is nothing in your tone or content that suggests anything Christian.


You noticed that also Georgia Boy?

Thanks for pointing it out.

Geno
Posted By: JBGQUICK Re: My Daughters Teacher - 02/13/16
Actualy, people should read the translations other then King James version (modern English) of the bible. They would find everything is not so certain, for and against issues as they want them to be.

Jesus spoke and read in Aramaic or like and Genesis is much older. Somehow translators left out words, added words and changed items. Different people made slightly different interpretations.

I am not sure that God felt he needed to do a re-write around intent, but I am sure that men corrupt all they touch (not always via an intent, ignorance has as big or more of an impact) And of course, individuals seize their decisions and then sort any data as good or bad, based on what they already decided or someone else told them.

Not limited to theological discussions.
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