I'm going to be adding on a two car garage soon and need to iron out the details pretty quick. Here's what I've got so far, I'm wide open for advice. I don't mind adding small things here and there if they'll really be useful, but little things add up to big money so I want to try and keep this under control too.

It's 21'6" deep (I can go a little deeper if I want, but that should fit any truck I'll ever buy) and 26'6" wide. The dimensions are a little odd, but it's connected to the house and there'll be a room above it so the size of the garage was dictated by that. 9' ceilings

There'll be 18' X 8' garage doors on opposing walls. That'll let me pull straight through into the backyard if I want, raise them both for airflow, or access the garage from the backyard without worrying about neighbor kids wandering in or my dog getting out. It'll cut down on wall space available for shelves and work benches, but for what we want to do with the space I think it'll be worth the trade off.

Wall outlets at 4'ish high so they'll be above a workbench and above workbench stuff.

There's a bathroom that shares one wall and I think I'll add a free standing outdoor sink (just tied in to the water and drain lines for the bathroom). The kitchen is only a few steps away from the garage door (it's attached to the main house) so I'm not set on a sink yet.

Lots of lights....For a shop this size how many / what size lights do y'all recommend? Like I said, there's a room above this so wiring for lights would be much easier now that later.

I don't weld, don't plan on starting, and have never needed a 220 outlet before. But if y'all can give me a reason to need one I don't mind adding that.

I'm thinking of putting an outlet in one or two ceiling corners to mount fans (to save floor space on a large rolling fan).

Is there anything else I'm not thinking of?

LED fluorescent type lighting.

What about air?

I would install one 220 outlet for just in case.

No air. It never gets too cold (not cold enough that a few propane heaters can't fix) and I couldn't afford to cool it.

What are you going to use the shop/garage for? I would put in 220v for an air compressor/welder. Ya just never know.

build it bigger!

i know you have constraints..just echoing the usual complaint.

my garage is attached to the house, right next to the kitchen. i have a sink in the garage. some of the things you'll do in a garage sink, your wife will kill you if you do them in the kitchen sink!

lots of electrical outlets, on the outside as well!

can you build a 2 story garage?

ked

A 220 V compressor will cost half as much to run as 110, if a stationary compressor is in the works.

I meant meant compressed air, but AC is nice in South Louisiana.

I second the 240 volt for the air compressor.


Also. 21'-6" is too shallow. You need 24' minimum for your depth.

Phone and Internet, water?

My pickup is 23' long. Even a 24' shop isn't long enough to get it in to work on it.

Would help to know what you plan to do besides not weld. Just for starters, if you are going to do woodworking have 220.

Don't count on never welding. I used to think that, too. I'm not even close to being good at it, but you'd be surprised at what you'll want to do when you get a good shop to do it in.

It costs very little to run a circuit for a welder even though you don't plan to use it. Just call it insurance.

On this house I went with a 4 car garage, the center bay is a tandem. I expect I'll always have at least one 1/2 ton pickup, and it sure is nice having the room to get in front of the vehicle. So I'd go as long as possible on the garage. Who knows, maybe the next guy you sell it to will have a boat or a even bigger truck, and the extra length will help close the deal.

Ditto the 220V outlets - I got two of them added; I haven't used them yet, but at some point I'll get a bigger air compressor or table saw that needs them, and it will be a fine deal at that point.

Floor drains so wet vehicle's wont leave puddles that always run and make a mess

And make sure the pad slopes into the drains

I hate 8 ft tall garage doors....too short

My shop is 30x40.....I wish I'd have used vaulted trusses to gain ceiling hight

I recommend that you re-think your two 18 foot doors that are on opposite sides unless you consult an engineer.....catastrophic collapse as the building will break in the middle with any snow or ice load

I'd rethink the size of the second door just to gain wall space.

He's in Texas.

Then bless his heart and I wish him the best of luck and hope he doesn't finish his ceilings or add any weight unless he has supper engineered headers

Goose luck

Blue...didn't know about this site before my last 2 builds, wish I did. Everything you need to know with great examples/discussion/pics can be found in this forum.

Garage Journal

This. 26' would be even better. There is NEVER enough garage space.

Electrical outlets everywhere. There are never too many outlets.

Bluedreaux,

What kind of construction for the garage:
Concrete block or wood stud and drywall ?

Will your electric be concealed inside the walls, or in conduit that is mounted on the surface of the walls ?
IMO, the best, but not prettiest, is exposed conduit so you can easily re-route circuits if needed.

The best way to do the electric, is to run a feed cable from the house main panel to a 220 volt sub-panel (breaker box) in the garage and supply everything electric in the garage from that panel.
That way you can easily get a 220 volt outlet and 110 volts from the two 'hots' to neutral connectors. If you pop a circuit breaker in the garage, you just re-set it in the sub panel. Saves a trip into the house and down the basement with muddy shoes.

You probably will have a building code problem with a floor drain. I think most places won't allow it if they find out.
An alternative is to slope the garaqe floor slightly toward the driveway and let any water out under the door.

Myron

Yep 'cause all that lake-effect snow offa Lake Fork is a PITA. Floors take forever to dry out in that cold there.

Mine slopes 3" in 24'. That's not enough for the water to run out. Luckily, this is high desert and we don't get enough rain to matter.

Not much snow here.....but it does rain

When garage doors open they drip

When a soaking wet vehicle is pulled into a shop they drip a lot

Makes for cleaning up after skinning deer or leaving one hang a snap also

If you are OK with water running from your rig into the walls sill plate or whatever....

Be my guest

You mean something like a glue-lam? That you can buy at any lumber yard?

Not to be a wise-acre, but you are correct, you can't span 18ft and put a roof load on 2x12's only. It has to be a glue lam (that has an engineered crown) or a 3/8th steel flitch plate bolted into the 2x12 beam. You'll need at least a pair of jack studs under each end of the beam, maybe three(look at the code), and if you don't know what jacks/trimmer studs are, hire a real framer.

Pitch the floor about three feet in front of the door. Any concrete guy will do that unless he's stupid. When I pour a garage floor, I install a 1x8 with the edge pocket-screwed into the top of concrete form where the door will be. That forms a 3/4in pocket that the door drops down into. Put it in place when you are placing the last of the crete and vibrate it with a recip saw with no blade.

Sounds like you know what your doing

What's the weight rating on an 18 ft free span open on both ends of the 10 truss system on top of this?

Add the water and put in a bathroom. Add the 220 and build it as big as you can afford. When I built my 30x40 25 years ago I could've built a 40x60 for about 40 percent more, wish like hell I would've.

I'd have to look at the tables but I think a 3.5in by 14in glue lam would carry that without a problem. You might need to go 16in tall. I'd use a glue-lam over para lams, the latter don't have a crown.

Last summer I built this one at our place in Idaho. I allowed 24' depth to make parking my Suburban or F150 easy though they will generally reside in the main attached garage. I added another 8' of depth for my handloading/play room. Width is 26' which is all I needed. It has engineered trusses for snowload, not needed for you. I ran my power at 4' every 6'. No 220V as the attached garage has two of those. For lights I used 8 twin 75W T12 bulb fixtures. It is near day light when all are fired off. I switched them front and rear with the reloading room alone. As I was on gravel, including the interior (due to snow drainage desires), so had a ribbon poured at the garage door so a good seal was assured. I went with an overhang on the left to store firewood. My only regret, I think, is for a taller garage door though the attached meets those needs.

At least one 220

Drain and a properly sloped slab.

Run the loft only over half the garage and put a tall door on at least the front side.

Wall off the entry to the house to create a "mud room" separate from the garage.

Car lift.

Good LED lighting.

Keg-o-rator

He may have to, but that's another 4-500 bucks. If you've got at least six spaces left in your house panel, you could get by probably. I'd want a circuit for each wall, and addressing the 220 issue is easy, just run at least one (two would be better) 12-2 romex home runs directly from the receptacle to the panel. Put these in the bottom of the panel, you'll only need to swap out a 120 breaker for a 240 to have a 240 line for a small Mig or a compressor. A lincoln buzz-box will require a home run of number six, and an appropriate plug.

Interested in this thread as we've got a 30x45 ft pole barn ag building / garage going up this Spring. Will be doing the electrical myself. Planning on doing 220/100 Amp sub panel off the house underground in sched 80 PVC.

Bluemonday,
I disagree about the added cost, unless he NEVER runs 220 out there.
The way I recommended does both with one home run cable heavy enough to feed a welder if desired, and provides the breakers for the 110 outlets and lights right there instead of having to run separate lines to breakers in the house panel.

I'll bet that it might actually be a little cheaper to do it my way when it is all added up.

Myron

Heavy duty vapor barrier under the concrete floor (we used Stego 15 mill). I would make it as long as you reasonably can. You will never regret the extra space and it typically doesn't cost all that much more. Consider two light circuits - one to run lights on either side of the garage and one to run lights down the center. Often times I just need to get something out of the garage and don't need all of the lights turned on. The side lights also help when backing vehicles into a shop/garage. In our shops/garage one of the side lights also tends to end up over the work bench. Any windows planned?

How about a 10/12 or 12/12 pitch roof so you can have a bonus room above. If you do, don't forget to put the stairs outside so you don't lose space inside to a stairwell. Make your outside stairs nice and wide to make carrying stuff up there easy. Also, the landing at the top of your outside stairs makes for a good roof to skin deer under. Put corrugated plastic under the decking boards of the landing and slope them away from the building. This will keep you dry when processing deer. Put a light, on a beam, under the landing, for skinning deer in the dark.

Line the inside with Eastern Red Cedar. People will go "WOW" when they walk in.

Oh yea, don't forget to epoxy the floor of the building. Use Epoxycoat, you won't regret it.

I included all these in my building and I'm glad I did.

4-500? An 80 to 100 amp breaker is about $50, a 100 amp panel is roughly the same. Assuming the house panel has the capacity, you can run a single heavy circuit to a sub panel in the garage for a lot less than that, depending on how long the run has to be. If you're building the shop, do it right.

All the 120 outlets have to be on a GFI. A GFI breaker is handy but expensive. A GFI outlet at the start of each circuit isn't as handy but they're a lot cheaper and work just fine. Just be sure to run 20A circuits, not 15.

Ed:

What was your decision process regarding the T12s versus T8s?

Well, I buy Square D stuff, and it ain't that cheap, and I'd wager he doesn't have enough capacity in his entrance cable to his house panel to carry all of that. Just because you have breaker space doesn't mean it'll carry it in a "feed-through" situation like you describe. Now, if he has a disconnect panel by his meter that has feed-through lugs, then what you say is true, just pull the appropriate sized wire from there. In any event, if he ain't got a bit of electrical knowledge, he needs to seek local advice.

Put your outlets @ 54". 48" high outlets get covered up by a 4x8 sheet of everything.

2 50 amp 220V plugs cost about $100 in materials when I buillt my shop 7 yrs ago. I've never plugged a thing into them, nor have I ever flipped on their breakers, but Im damned glad I've got them.

I moved from an impossibly small 2 car garage to a 4 car shop plus shed and it is none too big. I agree about the depth being a bit too short if you drive a truck. Two doors are nice, but you may not need more than a 1 car door in the back.

You can never have too much lighting. I think the most cost effective are 8' T-8 fixtures with 4 4' bulbs. A real electrical/lighting supply house can design a lighting plan for you if you bring a sketch of the floor plan and ceiling heights. Paint the walls and ceiling a very light color.

A 220 volt circut is nice if you do any wood or metal working. Cheap and easy to add now, although it is pretty easy to add later if you are willing to go surface mount with conduit. Even a window AC unit can work wonders in a well insulated 2 car garage, but you need 220 to run it. Speaking of which, buy insulated garage doors.

Run an RV outlet if you are an RV'er so you can plug in and run everything (especially AC) in the driveway while prepping for a trip. I don't have a garage sink and I really wish I had one.

Rock Chuck,

What he does with the electric depends on the capacity of the main service into the house, and whether the breaker space is all used up in the house panel.

If he has the amperage capacity, a 220 volt 50 amp breaker added to the main panel, then feed the cable to the shop from there. Add a breaker there that will prevent blowing the one in the house panel. Then split the power out in the shop with a 30 or 40 amp breaker for the 220 outlet, and then the breakers for the light and outlet circuits. I think you can use GFCI breakers in the sub panel instead of GFCI outlets, but check local code first.

Myron

First thing you need to change is that 21.5 depth,

36' of overhead door seems drastic, but 32' ain't much different I guess.

I've never had any use for 220, and wound't incur the extra cost, unless considering resale down the road. YMMV.

If you do it like I described, it would be about sixty bucks or so to run the home runs and just wire it 120 for now. Ignore it and rewire it later and it'll be a major PITA and probably cost many hundreds. 12-2 is cheap right now.

Yes it is. I just priced it on Home Depot.

I guess they got sucked into the chinese globalist vortex as well. All my US made Square D stuff is working great for over 20yr now. It was about 50% higher than the imported stuff.

I guess you have to buy Cutler Hammer now to get quality US made.

Via recommendation from the electrician that ran my main power from the house to the shop, and, they were on sale.

Agree and I did this.

EdM.


"For lights I used 8 twin 75W T12 bulb fixtures. It is near day light when all are fired off."

I can't imagine why your electrician would recommend T12 lights, since the tubes are no longer legal to manufacture.

They are still on the market, but when current stocks run out, you will have to change out the ballasts - which could get expensive.
Or stock up on enough extra tubes to last the rest of your life.

Myron

2x6 ,24inch on centers ,period.... 220 period.... 1.5 slope to center drain period, led lights period ...need heat? . stuff some uponor in that floor... 5/8 rock…

Thanks guys, a couple of things...

No snow or ice load here. It does rain, but I've never had a car drip enough for water to leak under the walls and damage the bottom plates. Not sure how that would happen.

There will be a room above the garage, stairs exterior to the garage. It's all attached to a new kitchen and laundry room, so there will be a mud-ish room area to use.

I'm not doing any of the structural stuff on this one. I'm assuming the architect that drew the plans and the engineer that will certify the foundation will get it right. Because, math. If it collapses y'all will be the first to know.

Good call on 54" height for the outlets.

As far as what it'll be used for....
It's just a place that I can keep my stuff organized and put away without having to pull everything out to get to what I need. It's a place we can fix broken bicycles, build momma a new porch swing, clean a deer when it's dark, set up serious dry fire sessions, we can pitch washers when it's raining and take care of the honey-do list without dragging the four-wheeler, dirt bike and five bicycles to make room.

Wire and box stereo speakers into the wall or ceiling so they don't take up storage/work space.

Definitely second the 220V for a big air compressor. Different wires and outlets than the one for a welder, which I would also have.

Two-post lift if you're into that kind of thing. Used to have one in my garage, and loved it.

My garaj mahal has tire and wheel storage overhead for car and bike stuff.

Don't skimp on the weight capacity of shelving. Get the heavy duty stuff.

Have a dirty room and a clean room, each separate from the main "average" space. Separate garden/yard maintenance tools from the rest of it, too.

Definitely put in a big laundry-type sink.

Extend the house's alarm system, if you have one, to the garage.

If you're going to put a safe out there, have it hidden from street view and elevated off the main slab with its own platform.

Have a couple chairs to sit on, and room to sit on them.

Put a window in you can stick an AC unit into. It is redneck, but you can remove it and it makes the garage a livable proposition during Texas summers. I would fire mine up and in 30 minutes it was comfortable enough to lift weights or work on guns. Of course, opening the door let's all the cool air escape. Adding a permanent AC system is likely much more expensive than a window unit.

Don't skimp on the power supply. You need 220 on both live walls, and make all your 110 on 30 amp circuits. Juice jacks no less than every three feet, no more than four outlets on one 30 amp breaker.
You should also make provisions to get electricity to the middle of the floor either under the slab or in the center of the ceiling. 220 and 110.
I'd also skip the 18 foot door to the back yard. Make it a nine footer so you CAN drive through, but two big doors just wastes storage potential, work benches.
If you can get water to it with a drain and a proper sink, DO IT. Along the wall where you didn't put the nine feet of door sounds pretty smart, hmmmm?

Make a spot and have it wired for a fridge/freezer. You never know when you want one for the garage, and you can get them on Craigslist for a minimal amount. It is a great place for your extra beverages and game meat. -tnscouter

As far as a sink, consider a restaurant style two basin sink with the tall faucet/sprayer combination. I have this and it is used quite often. Cleaning off boots, gear, and other items is much easier with the tall sprayer. These sinks can also be found on Craigslist for a reasonable price. Good luck on the construction. -tnscouter

Watch out for architects, they are an odd bunch.....

I can't imagine a location in Texas where the sun will not beat down on a garage and heat it to the point it's not a fun space in the summer without some thought.

Opposing garage doors makes good sense beyond access to the backyard if they are oriented to take advantage of the summer time prevailing winds, similar to a dogtrot cabin. With an addition, this may be pure luck but maybe you are lucky.

Sun angles matter especially if a door faces west or south, deep overhangs may be a solution.

Insulate, if it fits the budget 2x6 exterior studs for better wall insulation, insulated ceiling and if possible insulated garage doors.

And a mini-split for less than 2,500 if you want 70 degrees at a flip of the switch.

You said it will be connected to a mud room with a sink but I would still add a sink thats accessible without having to go through an entry door.

If the code will allow it, use plywood instead of sheetrock for the bottom 4' of wall. It's a lot tougher for dings and you can screw or nail to it.

Beat me to it... At 21-6, my truck would stick out about 3 feet..

Definitely add a 220A circuit along with 50A RV-type plug, just in case..

Best the OP check his local codes on that one. This would not pass my county elec codes using #12 copper, especially on a single pole 110 circuit. Here we'd have to run #10 for any circuit rated at 30 amps.

OP, your going to have the 220 power into the panel anyways. It just would not make much sense not to have access to it in the case you ever need it,... which you will sooner or later.

Locate the "higher amp" 220 circuit (welder, range, dryer etc) closer to the panel (cheaper) and the lower amp circuits( small heaters or window ac unit etc.) can be ran with multiple plugs and farther away for more convenience.

Regarding electrical outlets, I would look at putting a couple on the outside of the garage.

G23

You don't need a window for a "window unit". You merely need a hedder installed above where the unit will sit in the wall.

Exactly, using #10 wire where it isn't needed is silly, and where it is needed, it needs to be a home run to the panel.

If I ever get the chance, I want a slot drain with a good mud trap. 220 is a selling feature when and if you ever need to. I want warm water outdoors so I can wash the dog. I realize you do not have the winter there like Colorado. What is this upstairs room? Is it connected to the house? A place you could sleep? I would make it into a combo mother-in-law/ in the doghouse room with proper facilities.

Have we spent enough of your money yet?

It just so happens my garage is virtually identical to the dimensions you're proposing. If you plan to do any of your own work on your vehicles in the garage, especially your truck, having that back door will help there too given the short depth of 21'-6" you're planning on. My garage only has a front door and I can barely fit my F250 supercab 6 3/4 bed in and still close the door ... meaning that I have to have the door open to be able to cross in front. I can't cross in back at all. That makes getting a floor jack under it a pain to do. Also, I'd recommend having your floor be level throughout except maybe slope to it at the entrance if need be to keep water from running in. Mine is sloped up in the "parking area" from front to back except the last three feet is offset/raised and level at the back side and along the right side where the slab is all level and raised for 9 feet wide. Those areas are great for workbenches, storage and tools, but I wish the entire floor was all one level slab with a short slope to enter instead of a gradual slope up from front to back for the entire parking area. Ideally though, you would have a deeper length than 21'-6" to work with if your budget and lot can allow for it.

an architect for dayum car shed?

pffft


how bout cashin in a few sick days, get a hammer and brown paper bag and pencil, tape measure and get to work

be grown azz man

Wow. Lots of "city folk advice" here.

Grab a guy who knows what he's doing. Tell him/her what you want to do or think you might do then let them design your darn building.

I've designed many hundred thousand square feet of building (commercial and residential) and I see lot's of ill-advised ideas here as well as some good stuff.

Like I said, tell someone what you intend to do then let a pro take over. Please get a second opinion as there are some crooks and know-it-alls out there.

Good luck and enjoy your new building.

ABsolutely... Cheap, useful, and you'll never regret it..

Reading is hard huh?

If any new shop is built, make sure you make it a two story and plan it as an ADU Additional Dwelling Unit. I did that with the upper as my office with kitchen, 3/4 bath, fireplace and one bedroom. After I retired, I now rent it for 1,500 per month to a great renter. Of course the rental rates are higher here than most cities, but you will recoup your investment with a little foreplanning.

Been a few years ago, but helped a contractor put a 25'x150' concrete tilt-up stable in his back yard with my crane. Got to talking to him about my wanting to put a small 25'x25' shop in my back yard and he told me that the concrete tilt-up type construction is about a third of any other type if city codes allow for it.

Something to think about, its a lot cheaper, faster, and a hell of a lot more durable.

Phil

Lights and faucets, too. It makes a huge difference in convenience. The house I'm in now has them all over and I would even add a couple more!

That's always worked for me. He may have to have an engineer's stamp on his plans to get a permit, some places require that, places I plan to avoid, as it is mostly a racket, like vehicle inspections.

Jfc! The dude's building a small garage attached to his house and some of you are giving him advice like he's starting a welding business.

Put in plenty of outlets. Inside and out. If it were me, and i was going to put a door on both ends, I'd make one on the back side smaller, for the simple reason of all the storage space, IE shelves/cabinets, you'll be losing if you put an 18' door there as well. A 9' door would work for your purposes and you'll still have 9' extra for shelving/cabinets, tool racks, etc.

IIWM, I'd also skip the water if water was one or two steps inside the door. You're not farming and going to be full of chit and mud when you come in to wash up quick.

And like outlets, put in more lights than you think you'll need.

Sine you don't weld, and if you ever do, it sounds like you'll be able to get by with one that works off 110. Small type spot welds one trailers, bikes, light body work.