Seen some celebration of it today... especially since it is legalized here in Oregon?
What do you guys think?
Is dope a good thing or not?
Personally, I think it should be illegal....
all the arguments about it being a soft crime to smoke it, I call BS...
since legalization of it, their has been an increase of the peripheral effects of the public useage, showing up at our local hospital......
Seen way too many 20 somethings locally turning into real zombies, being high all the time....and losing any and all motivation to be a contribution to society by getting a job... and instead becoming a burden to it....
constantly staying high and living happily on the welfare rolls..
John I was asked to come and do a K9 Interstate Interdiction course for the 4-20 group ( basically an organization that trains law enforcement in all facets of drug trafficking) I did it, it was great good fun and I met some really good K9 guys from all over. But I must say the hats, T-shirts, coffee mugs and other memorabilia given to me certainly confuse people that know I train(ed) drug dogs. Just like my " Honest officer...I DO have glaucoma" T-shirt
Don't think weed is a good or a bad thing. It's just a thing. A free American should be able to choose whether to smoke a joint or have a scotch.
I'll not wag my finger at a guy telling him his choice is wrong. I've got enough wagging their finger at me telling me my hunting rifle is ok but I shouldn't be allowed to use an AR-15
my only problem with it is that it is real easy to have it turn into a whole sloth-like lifestyle. but used responsibly, just like responsible alcohol use, i have no problem with it. hell of a lot less hangover for sure.
Marijuana causes permanent brain impairment in those whose brain is still developing, which is up to about age 25. For everyone else it impairs depth perception, causing more accidents. It should remain outlawed.
Congress should drug test...if fact anyone in so called pubic service should ..if your going to tell us what to do an spend our bucks...start peeing ! Breath test and hair samples to !!!!
Yep, alcohol breathalizers when you walk in the door to work in the morning too! Every morning at that. Unlike marijuana which is fat soluble and lingers in the body for months, alcohol passes through the drug stream in hours. Hey, if you're going to talk about drug testing, let's fuggin' do it right! Can't have anybody going to work impaired can we?
Not a pot smoker myself, have tried it and it doesn't do anything I enjoy. That said, count me in for the maximum amount of freedom. I don't have to like it, but I'll support peoples freedom to do whatever they want as long as they are only doing it to themselves.
I've never smoked pot but was raised that it was bad and the "hippies across town" were living proof. The welfare system in MN was really BAD back then and they took advantage.
I always associated pot with fat lazy hippies until I got older.
Now I have friends that indulge once in awhile but for me it's like...meh...I'm 45 years old, why try it now?
Marijuana causes permanent brain impairment in those whose brain is still developing, which is up to about age 25. For everyone else it impairs depth perception, causing more accidents. It should remain outlawed.
Couldn't the same thing be said for alcohol....
Don't get me wrong....I don't encourage it's use but the prohibition on Pot is hypocricy...plain and simple.....
They lie about marijuana when they tell you pot-smoking makes you unmotivated. The truth is, when you're high you can do everything you normally do, just as well.
The difference is, you realize that it's not worth the fugg'n effort!
They lie about marijuana when they tell you pot-smoking makes you unmotivated. The truth is, when you're high you can do everything you normally do, just as well.
The difference is, you realize that it's not worth the fugg'n effort!
Funny story from a buddy:
"Piss Test Todd" comes to the job site. They start talking about a mutual acquaintance they both know that works his balls off 24/7/365. He is self employed and builds and remodels houses and lake cabins.
Anyway:
Buddy: "Hey what has so and so been up to?"
PTT: "Oh my God! He lost it! He went and bought a pound of weed and a tent and disappeared for 6 months!"
Buddy: "What?? HIM? That guy NEVER quits! What is he doing now?!"
PTT: "OH he's back. He just doesn't feel like doing a fugkin thing anymore"
One of the hardest working guys I know is a pothead. Just about Every other doper I know is pretty much a lowlife douchbag. People are people, most dope smokers are useless fugks...I've smoked my share in my youth, then I grew up.
One of the strangest things about these threads is all the absolute loser, hippy, welfare moochin, lazy, etc....smokers many of you seem to know about. I know a fair amount of pot smokers. Every single one of them has a job and a house and a family and is doing great.
I think the difference is that when I say dope smoker, I'm talking about people who smoke pot multiple times every day. Responsible adults who smoke on occasion are a different case.JMO...
I think the difference is that when I say dope smoker, I'm talking about people who smoke pot multiple times every day. Responsible adults who smoke on occasion are a different case.JMO...
IME, frequency of smoking is not the issue. It's the capability of a person to handle their drugs in a manner that is responsible for them and not a safety hazard for anyone else. That's what it comes down to in my worthless opinion. Know plenty of people earning quite a bit in software who smoke a whole lot. make tons of money and have families and are raising normal kids. Some of these kids know their parent or parents smoke. Some don't. The ones that know don't like it generally and have no inclination to try it themselves. There's exception to every rule like the roommate I had for a few years. Parents were lazy potheads with .gov jobs, and he was a lazy, worthless, messy fugck. But he paid rent and bills on time and kept his mess to his bathroom and bedroom.
I see no redeeming value in it.. but sure see the costs of its use to society....
Don't have a clue why anyone sees any reason to diminish one's mental capacity, to function... or go thru a day...
but I don't drink alcohol either, but did in my college days for a year or so... and then dropped that habit when I saw some of my best buddies turning into alcoholics...
guess I don't need to be high to not give a damn about things that one shouldn't give a damn about anyway... guess its called maturing...
of well I hope everyone interested had a happy dope day...
big Pharma was against it, they don't want the competition.
If you follow the money, you'll find that the alcohol lobby is where the resistance comes from.
Following the the money back in history you will find the timber (paper) industry behind outlawing hemp/MJ. It was outlawed when the agriculture equipment was invented to take the intensive labor out of harvesting hemp and separating the fiber from the woody core of the plant.
Drugs and alcohol reveal a persons character more than alter their character, in my experience. I was a heavy drinker/partier in college, but still kept good grades. One of the kids I knew smoked a lot, was on the golf team, pre-med yuppy type, and nobody would have guessed how much pot he smoked. Folks don't realize who the pot smokers are unless they let their own secret out most times.
I knew a judge once that was a pot/coke head, but still a successful guy, and nobody would have ever known until a rumor slipped that turned out to be true.
At my age now, I just don't think it is worth fighting the public and locking people away over pot. I wouldn't agree with harder drugs, drugs that are addicting becoming legal, but marijuana just isn't worth the cost to fight it, imo. Taxing it at 30+% and making a bundle of state tax revenue seems like the smarter move.
big Pharma was against it, they don't want the competition.
Yeah, I'm not much on moral equivilents. "Weed is not as bad a booze, therefore weed is ok". Kinda like adultery is not as bad as theft, so it's ok.
Face it, weed makes people apathetic, lethargic and stupid. There is enough ot that to go around without having weed store pop up like Vape shops.
Just the opposite.
Alcohol is every bit as evil as weed.
Therefore, alcohol should be illegal, anyone using alcohol is a lazy, worthless, no account, phucquing idiot who can't hold down a steady job, is a constant danger to all around him or her, basically isn't worth a sh*t and should be jailed. Alcohol dealers - 7-11 clerks, Piggly-Wiggly store managers and so forth, should be executed.
You are responsible for what you do with alcohol, drugs, texting, calling, putting makeup on, not showing for work, etc....
The gun is not at fault, the "shooter" is.
Now how do you cover the costs of drugs/alcohol treatment, thats a big issue, but if it was down to you being responsible for your actions, there would be a lot less policing etc... required.
big Pharma was against it, they don't want the competition.
Yeah, I'm not much on moral equivilents. "Weed is not as bad a booze, therefore weed is ok". Kinda like adultery is not as bad as theft, so it's ok. Face it, weed makes people apathetic, lethargic and stupid. There is enough ot that to go around without having weed store pop up like Vape shops.
Exactly like Hatari is stating... Weed turns people's brains into DemocRATs....
coming back from Portland this past weekend, on old Hwy 99W, passed thru one small town.... and here is this yoyo, holding this sign ( say 36 inches x 36 inches) with a big green cross on it ( like the Red Cross symbol, only Green instead)...that is the symbol all of this pot selling locations are using to symbolize maryjane for medicinal purposes.. which is a sham...
but this idiot is walking out into traffic, on the dividing line and pointing to the store that sells the crap....speed limit was only 25 mph, but he's still standing out in front of cars, for people to have to slow down even slower to avoid clipping him...
when folks honked their horn at him for being in the middle of the road with his sign, he flips them the bird...
of course he looked the part... dreadlocks, hadn't shaved or bathed in weeks...yellow cruddy looking teeth...
personally I think the idiot was probably stoned, along with being hopped up on meth....
yeah, that's one of the social problems I see since they legalized it here in this state....
you don't see drunks out in the middle of the road, with a sign blocking traffic to point out the bar he's trying to draw attention to...so others can get drunk like him....
well i know dr's, lawyers, judges and successful business owners who smoke pretty regular, even a few cops. it comes down to personal responsibility, people who are lazy are doing to be lazy regardless.
well i know dr's, lawyers, judges and successful business owners who smoke pretty regular, even a few cops. it comes down to personal responsibility, people who are lazy are doing to be lazy regardless.
And pot helps them do it unapologetically. Screw pot smokers.
These discussions always serve as a reminder that modern day conservatives and liberal are fundamental the same, the only difference being who and what they want the government to control. Neither has any desire for freedom. People piss and moan about all the things that are ruining our country's, when in the end it's the government that'll do it, with the approval of the people. Nothing else is anywhere near as dangerous as big government poking it's nose into everything.
well i know dr's, lawyers, judges and successful business owners who smoke pretty regular, even a few cops. it comes down to personal responsibility, people who are lazy are doing to be lazy regardless.
Same thoughts & experience here...even at 65 I still occasionally partake in a few tokes of the "evil weed"....usually while drinking beer. I quit when I was working for the govt. & later in life when I was driving trucks. No biggie & I don't think the govt. should have ever gotten involved with making use & possession a crime.
The negative effects that marijuana has had on this country (and continues to have) is like a grain of sand on the ocean bottom compared to the negative effects that alcohol has had on this country (and continues to have).
For those who drink alcohol (their intoxicant of choice) to condemn those who smoke marijuana (their intoxicant of choice) smacks of hypocrisy.
well i know dr's, lawyers, judges and successful business owners who smoke pretty regular, even a few cops. it comes down to personal responsibility, people who are lazy are doing to be lazy regardless.
Roger,
I am sure that anyone of us can point out socially responsible users of the stuff.... but in my life experiences, they have been in the minority of the pack....the shiftless in life, have always seemed to be dope users, along with other drugs...
But since its been legalized and living in one of those states that did so....the problems with its usage is coming out of the woodwork around here... increased traffic in the ER at the Hospital here in town....the cops have been busier...
the punk crowd ( which is huge, and unemployed) think it being legalized, that it is perfectly okay to be getting high in public, driving while toking up with their bongs and pipes...
more fender benders around town of people running stop signs and red lights they claim they didn't see...
know one kid who couldn't find a job, because he kept losing them quickly for going out and getting stoned on his break...lost the last one, as his drug test came back saying he was pregnant....
now he got a job in a "Marijuana Clinic"..... gets $!2 an hour.. owner actually comes picks him up and brings him home.. fringe benefits are Obama Care and plenty of free dope on top of it all...he thinks his ship has 'come in' in life...
The climate is great for growing it here.. so suddenly there are all sorts of out of state people coming here, buying up property with acreage... but their first question to the Real Estate people is they want to see places with good irrigation systems...
and we are not talking California people... we talking people from NYC, Chicago, Houston, Atlanta, DC, Philly....and in a town that you hardly ever see a black person in, suddenly we have plenty of them suddenly showing up....violent crimes are skyrocketing for a small rural town of 30,000.... plenty of people here conceal carry, even tho they aren't licensed to do so.. but since legalization the number of firearm related incidents has suddenly skyrocketed also....
all the stuff they don't tell the public "in the travel brochures"
It's the seedy, low-life drug of the masses. Disgusting and it stinks. Give me a good dram of Lagavulin in a Waterford Cut Crystal Glass, a good cigar, leather chair by the fire and let the animals smoke the dope.
What Hatari says is spot on. Further, it is a documented fact pot, even in relatively low dosages causes brain issues and even more critical, it is THE Gateway drug to harder stuff. For those of you that travel, take a trip through Holland and when you see what it has done to the youth over there, you might think differently of legalizing it.
All I see here with pot smokers is LAZY, dirty, did I already say lazy?, dreadlocks, tie die t shirts, sandals, dirty Suburus, and 1970's Dodge Monaco motorhomes broken down and abandoned on the edge of the road.
Screw pot smokers. I won't work with or for them.
Had some little hippie tramp in the line in front of me at the local market/gas station. Whole line of people behind me. I'm just standing there minding my own business in a daze after working all day in the heat. She turns around out of the blue and says you're freaking me the F out, go stand over there, pointing off to the side. She got set real straight about what's right and proper and who to respect and who not to.
Therefore, alcohol should be illegal, anyone using alcohol is a lazy, worthless, no account, phucquing idiot who can't hold down a steady job, is a constant danger to all around him or her, basically isn't worth a sh*t and should be jailed. Alcohol dealers - 7-11 clerks, Piggly-Wiggly store managers and so forth, should be executed.
Anything less is hypocrisy, plain and simple.
Two wrongs will never make a right. The effect of alcohol on the populous is tremendously widespread. The negative effects on individuals and on society are well known by all.
BUT THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT BOOZE!
It's about weed. Alcohol has ruined many lives. Why ruin more with weed?
Why not stop ruining lives with alcohol? We could save tens of thousands of innocent lives snuffed out by drunk drivers, recover millions of man-hours of lost work and salvage thousands of destroyed families.
And while we're at it, let's quit killing people slowly with emphysema, lung, throat and mouth cancer.
The government needs to put a stop to all of the ills that people are victim to, and the only way to do that is with stiff jail sentences for possession of a single joint, single can of beer or even one cigarette, cigar or tin of smokeless.
Btw, another ill people fall victim to is pointing out the mote in other people's eyes while ignoring the beam in their own.
It's the seedy, low-life drug of the masses. Disgusting and it stinks. Give me a good dram of Lagavulin in a Waterford Cut Crystal Glass, a good cigar, leather chair by the fire and let the animals smoke the dope.
What Hatari says is spot on. Further, it is a documented fact pot, even in relatively low dosages causes brain issues and even more critical, it is THE Gateway drug to harder stuff. For those of you that travel, take a trip through Holland and when you see what it has done to the youth over there, you might think differently of legalizing it.
Tobacco and alcohol are the gateway drugs to marijuana.
Of all the people who've smoked marijuana (including those who've gone on to use 'harder stuff'), what percentage of em' do you think started out 'first' by drinking alcohol (even prior to smoking pot)...?
So which intoxicant is the 'real' gateway drug...?
It's the seedy, low-life drug of the masses. Disgusting and it stinks. Give me a good dram of Lagavulin in a Waterford Cut Crystal Glass, a good cigar, leather chair by the fire and let the animals smoke the dope.
What Hatari says is spot on. Further, it is a documented fact pot, even in relatively low dosages causes brain issues and even more critical, it is THE Gateway drug to harder stuff. For those of you that travel, take a trip through Holland and when you see what it has done to the youth over there, you might think differently of legalizing it.
Tobacco and alcohol are the gateway drugs to marijuana.
Why not stop ruining lives with alcohol? We could save tens of thousands of innocent lives snuffed out by drunk drivers, recover millions of man-hours of lost work and salvage thousands of destroyed families.
And while we're at it, let's quit killing people slowly with emphysema, lung, throat and mouth cancer.
The government needs to put a stop to all of the ills that people are victim to, and the only way to do that is with stiff jail sentences for possession of a single joint, single can of beer or even one cigarette, cigar or tin of smokeless.
Btw, another ill people fall victim to is pointing out the mote in other people's eyes while ignoring the beam in their own.
Well Jim, I know that you pose this rhetorically, but you are aware of our experiement with Prohibition?
I go back to moral equivalents. When do two wrongs make a right? The weed issue is independent of alcohol, tobacco, meth, or overeating. One issue at a time. This was about national weed day, not national Marlboro Day, or International Jack Daniel's Day.
Of all the people who've smoked marijuana (including those who've gone on to use 'harder stuff'), what percentage of em' do you think started out 'first' by drinking alcohol (even prior to smoking pot)...?
So which intoxicant is the 'real' gateway drug...?
Well the argument I keep hearing is pot is easier to get for middle schoolers than alcohol.
Jesus turned water to wine, I don't recall anything in the Good Book about marijuana
Those seedy lowlife masses, there were no Waterford glasses, fine ceegars or leather chairs.
By the looks of the Middle East, they probably coudn't grow weed in the desert. Along with John the Baptist, you would have needed Herny the Hydroponic Hemp grower.
Yes, Prohibition is a great example of what happens when the government tries to impose morality on the governed. Instead of stopping the problem, they created an avenue for the most ruthless people in the country to get super rich and spread corruption to levels previously unheard of.
Once Prohibition was repealed, the problems with crime associated with it went away. That's actually a bit inaccurate. The drive by shootings and bombing of rival bootleggers stopped but the mega-rich criminals used their ill gotten money and influence to gain control of other areas of society.
It was already said here, but the war on drugs has created more of a problem than the drugs themselves ever could. After billions and billions of dollars spent and untold numbers of people jailed, drugs are more widespread than ever and with pot the potency has gone way up. The War on Drugs is a complete failure and such will be the fate of any war on vice.
I'm not for alcohol, pot, nicotine, meth or any drug. I am againt hypocrisy and heavy handed government efforts to legislate morality - efforts which do nothing but enrich criminals, corrupt law enforcement and politicians (like politicians need any more corruption) while doing nothing to stop the vice they purport to control.
Lots of people take a drink or six every night, lots of people smoke a joint or three or four every night and still manage to be reliable, responsible members of society. Lots of people drink or smoke dope every day and are total losers. IMHO the common denominator is that the losers were going to be losers either way, the drug of choice is irrelevant.
Yes, Prohibition is a great example of what happens when the government tries to impose morality on the governed. Instead of stopping the problem, they created an avenue for the most ruthless people in the country to get super rich and spread corruption to levels previously unheard of.
Once Prohibition was repealed, the problems with crime associated with it went away. That's actually a bit inaccurate. The drive by shootings and bombing of rival bootleggers stopped but the mega-rich criminals used their ill gotten money and influence to gain control of other areas of society.
It was already said here, but the war on drugs has created more of a problem than the drugs themselves ever could. After billions and billions of dollars spent and untold numbers of people jailed, drugs are more widespread than ever and with pot the potency has gone way up. The War on Drugs is a complete failure and such will be the fate of any war on vice.
I'm not for alcohol, pot, nicotine, meth or any drug. I am againt hypocrisy and heavy handed government efforts to legislate morality - efforts which do nothing but enrich criminals, corrupt law enforcement and politicians (like politicians need any more corruption) while doing nothing to stop the vice they purport to control.
Lots of people take a drink or six every night, lots of people smoke a joint or three or four every night and still manage to be reliable, responsible members of society. Lots of people drink or smoke dope every day and are total losers. IMHO the common denominator is that the losers were going to be losers either way, the drug of choice is irrelevant.
Yes, I saw your post on Holland. If adding another factor is bad then wouldn't removing a factor be good? MAKE ALCOHOL ILLEGAL!!!!
I'd very much like to see examples of countries where widespread use of alcohol made the roads in that country safer while lowering both violent encounters and divorce rates. While we're at it, I'd like to see examples of countries where widespread use of nicotine, both in smoked and smokeless forms, lowered the rates of cancer and emphysema.
Oh, wait, alcohol and nicotine are the drugs you use so we need to leave them alone.
Did you understand that I am not for drugs, but am against hypocrisy?
So why ADD ANOTHER factor to the equation? did you not see my post RE: Holland?
Because it is already there, and not regulated in the least. Pot remaining illegal, means people will remain smoking it illegaly. It isn't going away whether legal or illegal.
The amount of money to be saved by not incarcerating minor criminals, major pot criminals, the police structure to fight it, and the jailing industry to house the minority of folks who are caught is staggering.
Tax it at 30+%, regulate the product, and you have a new industry for jobs and tax revenue. It is the exact same situation as alcohol prohibition. It empowers criminals and makes them rich, while the lower level criminals are the only ones at risk.
Do you think Mexico would straighten up their act with the drug cartels, if we had a legal trade and tariff on marijuana, to the exclusion of harder drugs? I think it would be worth a try, instead of spending billions in a failed war against it, we could control the situation with tax and regulation and create more revenue.
well i know dr's, lawyers, judges and successful business owners who smoke pretty regular, even a few cops. it comes down to personal responsibility, people who are lazy are doing to be lazy regardless.
And I also know plenty of lazy ones that don't smoke....
Be responsible for you and your actions, don't make me pay for your issues. Thats pretty simple. Probably too simple.
So why ADD ANOTHER factor to the equation? did you not see my post RE: Holland?
Because it is already there, and not regulated in the least. Pot remaining illegal, means people will remain smoking it illegaly. It isn't going away whether legal or illegal.
The amount of money to be saved by not incarcerating minor criminals, major pot criminals, the police structure to fight it, and the jailing industry to house the minority of folks who are caught is staggering.
Tax it at 30+%, regulate the product, and you have a new industry for jobs and tax revenue. It is the exact same situation as alcohol prohibition. It empowers criminals and makes them rich, while the lower level criminals are the only ones at risk.
Do you think Mexico would straighten up their act with the drug cartels, if we had a legal trade and tariff on marijuana, to the exclusion of harder drugs? I think it would be worth a try, instead of spending billions in a failed war against it, we could control the situation with tax and regulation and create more revenue.
There is merit in this concept but one must always consider the .Gov factor. When was the last time they actually did something correct and competent? I see the potential of this concept to fail in the end because like always they would OVERREGULATE it to death resulting in the very same or even worse Black Market we have now.
Because it is already there, and not regulated in the least. Pot remaining illegal, means people will remain smoking it illegaly. It isn't going away whether legal or illegal.
... Do you think Mexico would straighten up their act with the drug cartels, if we had a legal trade and tariff on marijuana, to the exclusion of harder drugs? I think it would be worth a try, instead of spending billions in a failed war against it, we could control the situation with tax and regulation and create more revenue.
There is merit in this concept but one must always consider the .Gov factor. When was the last time they actually did something correct and competent? I see the potential of this concept to fail in the end because like always they would OVERREGULATE it to death resulting in the very same or even worse Black Market we have now.
My House of Rep congressman Emanual Cleaver says that states would go bankrupt in a month without tobacco and alcohol taxes. The gov't has a rocky position on tobacco, and a better history with alcohol since the 1940's. Regulate it, stamp it, tax it, and quit wasting money on a vice that isn't going away.
You're certainly right about the government, they could screw up a two person parade.
But we seem to regulate alcohol and tobacco fairly well. Not perfectly, kids can still get them from older kids and there is still a small market for illegal moonshine, but overall the system seems to work about as well as any revenue collection system. Although from what I read taxes drive the price of legal weed up so much, and since there is still a large illegal distribution system in place, that people still buy weed from the local dealer since it is cheaper than what the legal stores are charging - and just as good.
If marijuana is completely legalized at state and federal levels it might take a couple of years to get the bureaucratic details worked out but soon enough it would be just another age restricted commodity.
I don't keep close tabs on these things but I understand the pot business in the three states where it is legal is still a cash only affair. Because of federal prohibitions and other concerns banks won't accept accounts from legal marijuana stores. In a similar vein,as I understand it many state legislatures would pass legalization but are simply waiting to see how those bureaucratic details are handled in CO, WA and OR. That and/or a way to determine impairment in drivers during roadside stops by law enforcement.
From what I can see in these discussions, most aversion to pot is simply cultural; pot = dirty hippy commie homos while alcohol = something me and my good buddies do to have some harmless fun. I can see that attitude changing as people realize pot is just another intoxicant, different from alcohol in its effects but overall not the killer weed and destroyer of youth that the authorities (those oh so trusted government sources again) told us it was.
Of course I understand. My posts have nothing to do with morality, but one of practicality. IDGAF what anybody does, but WHY open the door to other drugs? Instead, REMOVE alcoholism as a disease because IT ISN'T and make killing someone if you drive drunk a capital offense. Same for nicotine. If it was a REAL drug, smokers would be killing people for a smoke like heroin addicts do. I smoked, forty years ago, decided to quit one day and that was it.
It's the seedy, low-life drug of the masses. Disgusting and it stinks. Give me a good dram of Lagavulin in a Waterford Cut Crystal Glass, a good cigar, leather chair by the fire and let the animals smoke the dope.
What Hatari says is spot on. Further, it is a documented fact pot, even in relatively low dosages causes brain issues and even more critical, it is THE Gateway drug to harder stuff. For those of you that travel, take a trip through Holland and when you see what it has done to the youth over there, you might think differently of legalizing it.
Tobacco and alcohol are the gateway drugs to marijuana.
That would rate a BULLSHIT
So does all the gateway nonsense. About like guns kill.
Can any of you make the case for weed without a moral equivalent? Weed as an issue by itself.
Not weed = alcohol, not weed = tobacco, not prohibitition was a failure. I don't want to hear "you suck because you drink but don't want to legalize weed". I don't want to hear stoners should have unfettered access to pot just because millions drink everyday. Discuss weed on its own merits and as its own subject. You can start another thread about booze and cigs if you want and I'll happily opine on those individual issues.
Herbs are natural however you ingest them. I'm going to open an 'herb bakery and smoke shop'. I reckon my special night shade brownies and Toxicodendron rydbergii tobacco will be hyuge sensations.
I read the part where you said you gave it up 40 years ago. Except for the fine cigars. There is always an exception for an addict.
You're an idiot.
For starters. First, maybe a cigar once or twice and if I dont have one, I don't go around getting the DTs, or hit old ladies over the head to steal their purses and or slit their throats.
It's the seedy, low-life drug of the masses. Disgusting and it stinks. Give me a good dram of Lagavulin in a Waterford Cut Crystal Glass, a good cigar, leather chair by the fire and let the animals smoke the dope.
What Hatari says is spot on. Further, it is a documented fact pot, even in relatively low dosages causes brain issues and even more critical, it is THE Gateway drug to harder stuff. For those of you that travel, take a trip through Holland and when you see what it has done to the youth over there, you might think differently of legalizing it.
Tobacco and alcohol are the gateway drugs to marijuana.
That would rate a BULLSHIT
So does all the gateway nonsense. About like guns kill.
Except for that pesky issue of a FACT regarding THC being a gateway drug, your post is spot on..
The deleterious effects of prohibition run from wasted resources to ruined lives. Our police devote thousands of hours to arresting, booking and imprisoning marijuana smokers, many of whom are otherwise law-abiding. The most unfortunate of these arrestees have spent over a decade in prison, in some cases for nothing more than possession of cannabis for personal use.
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2. The benefits of criminalization are minuscule to nonexistent.
Cannabis prohibition is quite costly, but so are other government initiatives. A fair analysis of criminalization must also consider its benefits. The thing is, it’s not clear that there are any.
One of the strangest aspects of the war on drugs is how completely it has failed at reducing drug use, despite costing over $51 billion annually, according to the Drug Policy Alliance.
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3. Prohibition is racist.
In one of its series of editorials, the Times reviews the history of cannabis criminalization, and finds it has been racist from the outset in the 1930s. The campaign to make pot illegal was “firmly rooted in prejudices against Mexican immigrants and African Americans, who were associated with marijuana use at the time.” The word “marijuana” was popularized as a way to associate the plant with Mexicans.
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4. Cannabis has legitimate medical effects.
The narrative of cannabis as a harmful drug has been dominant for so long, that many people had trouble accepting the plant’s demonstrated medicinal effects. Opinions on medical marijuana have shifted dramatically in the last two decades: this year, a slew of mostly conservative states passed laws permitting epilepsy patients to use strains of cannabis high in CBD. These states joined 23 others with broader medical marijuana laws. While the federal government still lists cannabis as a Schedule I drug, meaning it does not acknowledge any legitimate medical use, the states clearly disagree.
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5. Legalization won’t lead to increased use.
There is reason even for people who oppose the use of marijuana to support its legalization: legal substances can be controlled in ways illegal ones cannot.
Ignore "6" if you like.
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6. Cannabis is less harmful than alcohol or tobacco.
American history has a good analog for cannabis prohibition: alcohol prohibition. With both, use of the substance did not stop, laws were selectively enforced and violent gangs made staggering profits filling a market law-abiding merchants could no longer touch. In the end, despite alcohol’s costs to bodily health, and the alarming effects it can have on behavior, it was determined, rightly, that criminalizing alcohol did more harm than good.
Can any of you make the case for weed without a moral equivalent? Weed as an issue by itself.
Not weed = alcohol, not weed = tobacco, not prohibitition was a failure. I don't want to hear "you suck because you drink but don't want to legalize weed". I don't want to hear stoners should have unfettered access to pot just because millions drink everyday. Discuss weed on its own merits and as its own subject. You can start another thread about booze and cigs if you want and I'll happily opine on those individual issues.
Just pointing out the hypocricy of a tobacco and alcohol user telling me that marijuana is somehow worse.
Harry Anslinger, criminalization’s biggest champion, is responsible for any number of quotes that sound like satire, but formed the basis of the movement to make cannabis illegal:
"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers,” Anslinger declared. “Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others.”
Fast-forward to present day, and the words we use around marijuana have improved, but our actions have not.
“Whites and blacks use marijuana at roughly the same rates; on average, however, blacks are 3.7 times more likely than whites to be arrested for possession, according to a comprehensive 2013 report by the A.C.L.U.,” the Times lays out. “In Iowa, blacks are 8.3 times more likely to be arrested, and in the worst-offending counties in the country, they are up to 30 times more likely to be arrested. The war on drugs aims its firepower overwhelmingly at African-Americans on the street, while white users smoke safely behind closed doors.”
This racial disparity has been present throughout the life of marijuana prohibition. While the obvious solution for a proponent of criminalization would be for police to arrest more white pot smokers—after all, they are criminals too, aren’t they?—no one seems to want to lead that charge. Instead, the drug war, however well meaning its supporters, is in practice, a blatant assault on minorities and their economic mobility.
Had some little hippie tramp in the line in front of me at the local market/gas station. Whole line of people behind me. I'm just standing there minding my own business in a daze after working all day in the heat. She turns around out of the blue and says you're freaking me the F out, go stand over there, pointing off to the side. She got set real straight about what's right and proper and who to respect and who not to.
Before it was made illegal, one of the "arguments" to criminalize it was that black men who smoked it often raped white women. It's factual history. Ever see Reefer Madness?
Only other thing I can add after reading this some more, I can usually tell when someone at a fire scene had to much to drink. I can smell it on them generally for starters.
I have NO clue how to tell someone is high on weed.
I"d hate to rely my life on entering a burning building, with another fellow high on weed.
Of course if slow and stupid by either, and you came to the call and get me killed, I think you should have the death penalty.
The New York Times lays out. “In Iowa, blacks are 8.3 times more likely to be arrested, and in the worst-offending counties in the country, they are up to 30 times more likely to be arrested. The war on drugs aims its firepower overwhelmingly at African-Americans on the street, while white users smoke safely behind closed doors.”
In Iowa???? How many freaking brothers can you possible have in Iowa? I have more in my neighborhood than are probably in all of Iowa.
Maybe brothers shouldn't do dumpass activities that get them arrested while puffin on the blunt and sipping purple drank.
Before it was made illegal, one of the "arguments" to criminalize it was that black men who smoked it often raped white women. It's factual history. Ever see Reefer Madness?
You would have to be more than high, to rape a black woman!
Can any of you make the case for weed without a moral equivalent? Weed as an issue by itself.
Not weed = alcohol, not weed = tobacco, not prohibitition was a failure. I don't want to hear "you suck because you drink but don't want to legalize weed". I don't want to hear stoners should have unfettered access to pot just because millions drink everyday. Discuss weed on its own merits and as its own subject. You can start another thread about booze and cigs if you want and I'll happily opine on those individual issues.
sorry but equivalency is always a factor in these things.
it's a gateway drug because it's been mostly bought on the black market, criminals control the black market.
it's a different high than alcohol, in fact alcohol iirc is a depressant
you're making almost the same argument that folks that want to ban black rifles.
you're just as dead if shot with gramps thutty-thutty.
but them black rifles are no damned good and neither is that weed!
if you don't want a black rifle, don't buy one
if you don't want to smoke weed don't buy it
you're either for limited gov't and freedom or you're not.
There's probably 1000 different types of weeds growing in my back yard and nobody gives a damn if I smoke any of them. But if it turns out that smoking one type of them makes you want to eat ice cream and listen to music, they'll lock your ass up for it.
Yeah, they still exercise some control over it. But before it was totally illegal.
States have money problems. Pension funds for state employees are upside down in many states.
They're going to be paid somehow.
So states can continue to dump money on trying to enforce laws against marijuana, or they can be realistic and use that market to generate badly needed revenue.
It's going to happen. Governments will only ignore a tax source this large for so long before they tap into it. Especially when they're hurting for money.
i remember when i turned 21. i went to the package store on base and bought vodka, jack, rum, tequila, you name it and stocked my little barracks room bar. i had a high old time every night. after a few weeks i still had half the bottles left. i had a drinky poo every now and then but didn't over do it.
once the novelty and stigma wears off i think it would be a non-issue. losers will still be losers and winners will still be winners. might be stoned once in a while, but they'll still be winners.
I was in Seattle last summer and the amount of open smoking was appalling. While there was always some level of drinking by the less than fortunate in that city, the open wafting of pot smoke as they strolled down the sidewalk on Pike Street was pretty disgusting to me and clearly that disgust was shared by the parents walking with their kids.
I have never partaken nor have I spent much if any time around those that do. The result is I also spend most of my time around around hard working productive people. Many of them are 20-25 years younger than me come from all over the country to work here and they pretty much all think legalization is a bad idea. Of course, they're just a younger me, educated and well traveled.
The libertarian side of me thinks "why not" but I also fully understand that, like most libertarian ideas, that it is an intellectual canard that ignores all practical aspects of the realities of life as we know it. You want to grow pot on your land, harvest it and smoke it on your porch and not leave your place or operate anything that will land you in a hospital and end up with a cost to me or the rest of the world? Have a ball. You do anything else or share it with someone who is going to cost me anything or anyone else something then you deserve a legal slap down.
I was in Seattle last summer and the amount of open smoking was appalling. While there was always some level of drinking by the less than fortunate in that city, the open wafting of pot smoke as they strolled down the sidewalk on Pike Street was pretty disgusting to me and clearly that disgust was shared by the parents walking with their kids.
I have never partaken nor have I spent much if any time around those that do. The result is I also spend most of my time around around hard working productive people. Many of them are 20-25 years younger than me come from all over the country to work here and they pretty much all think legalization is a bad idea. Of course, they're just a younger me, educated and well traveled.
The libertarian side of me thinks "why not" but I also fully understand that, like most libertarian ideas, that it is an intellectual canard that ignores all practical aspects of the realities of life as we know it. You want to grow pot on your land, harvest it and smoke it on your porch and not leave your place or operate anything that will land you in a hospital and end up with a cost to me or the rest of the world? Have a ball. You do anything else or share it with someone who is going to cost me anything or anyone else something then you deserve a legal slap down.
Pugs,
Of course there is an increase in traffic accidents of locoweed users--there was little effort to detect it until recently.
Secondly, those who smoke locoweed and drive, are just as likely to drink and drive. Mostly one substitutes or adds to the other.
I think marijuana is stupid, then again, so is alcohol--not much diff.
When I see people denounce alcohol in the same breath as locoweed, and any other "recreational" drug, then maybe it will have some veracity.
Alcohol ultimately opened the door to marijuana. Here in Colorado, the venture capital that is pouring into this state is one of several reasons the Front Range of Colorado has among the best economies in the country.
Although I think locoweed is stupid, I voted YES on the citizen ballot initiatives both times--government shouldn't be prohibiting it. Regulate it?--yes.
Other states will be legalizing locoweed soon. Expect the cost of it to come down significantly. Also, expect a "dotcom" style economic marijuana bust (pun intended) in the next decade or so.
So why ADD ANOTHER factor to the equation? did you not see my post RE: Holland?
Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho
Yes, I saw your post on Holland. If adding another factor is bad then wouldn't removing a factor be good? MAKE ALCOHOL ILLEGAL!!!!
I'd very much like to see examples of countries where widespread use of alcohol made the roads in that country safer while lowering both violent encounters and divorce rates. While we're at it, I'd like to see examples of countries where widespread use of nicotine, both in smoked and smokeless forms, lowered the rates of cancer and emphysema.
Oh, wait, alcohol and nicotine are the drugs you use so we need to leave them alone.
Did you understand that I am not for drugs, but am against hypocrisy?
And there it is....they can spin it any way they want but jorge and a few others are simply being hypocrites.....
And for the record jorge.....I've been to Holland....have you ever been to an Indian Rez....
One thing I don't get about potheads is why they wanted to legalize it. It is readily available, at reasonable prices. Getting caught with it was a slap on the wrist. Now, they want to pay a tax on it? They want government control? Makes no sense.
You guys think pot's no big deal, you need to live where Seafire and I do. You'd feel differently soon enough. Pot smokers are trashy people plain and simple.
... even more critical, it is THE Gateway drug to harder stuff...
Tobacco and alcohol are the gateway drugs to marijuana.
FACT! I have interviewed literally hundreds, if not a thousand or more dopers in my LE career because I wanted to figure out why/how these folks started using dope.
Every one, no exceptions, said that they had been drinking alcohol the first time they tried any drug. Those who already smoked cigarettes were the easiest to get to try pot, while those who were tobacco free seemed to shift straight from alcohol to stronger stuff, from pharmaceuticals, to coke, to meth, to heroin, and everything in between.
Another interesting thing I discovered, most opioid addicts used pot to ease withdrawal symptoms while seeking their next dose, or to quit opioids all together. They continued to smoke pot, but didn't use opioids anymore.
Personally, I believe it causes a lot of problems for a lot of folks, particularly young people. Just as with alcohol, there is NO way to keep it safe from your kids if it is in your house, so why have it there.
You guys think pot's no big deal, you need to live where Seafire and I do. You'd feel differently soon enough. Pot smokers are trashy people plain and simple.
Fireball, I suspect my neck of the woods would give yours a run for its money, and I still think pot is no big deal.
It's uncanny that here, on this site blatant stinking hypocrisy can still reign supreme.
I'll sip my booze and dip my cope, but ban that stinking dope. We're gonna take your automatics, but your revolvers are ok..
One of the strangest things about these threads is all the absolute loser, hippy, welfare moochin, lazy, etc....smokers many of you seem to know about. I know a fair amount of pot smokers. Every single one of them has a job and a house and a family and is doing great.
Yeah... that'd be my experience as well. Based on a large sample, too.
Funny to see peeps get so hysterical about it. It ain't no thang.
It's legal to grow 4 plants here... the climate is ideal.... you do the math. It's like zucchini here, I'm not kidding. Want some? Please?
One wonderful benefit of having it be so plentiful and free is making edibles. Want to feel a little relaxed, and have your aches and pains suppressed, but not be "high"? I'm 51 years old and have a very physical lifestyle and I very rarely take ibuprofen anymore... sleep like a baby... get up and attack the next day... Hint.
One of the strangest things about these threads is all the absolute loser, hippy, welfare moochin, lazy, etc....smokers many of you seem to know about. I know a fair amount of pot smokers. Every single one of them has a job and a house and a family and is doing great.
Yeah... that'd be my experience as well. Based on a large sample, too.
Funny to see peeps get so hysterical about it. It ain't no thang.
It's legal to grow 4 plants here... the climate is ideal.... you do the math. It's like zucchini here, I'm not kidding. Want some? Please?
One wonderful benefit of having it be so plentiful and free is making edibles. Want to feel a little relaxed, and have your aches and pains suppressed, but not be "high"? I'm 51 years old and have a very physical lifestyle and I very rarely take ibuprofen anymore... sleep like a baby... get up and attack the next day... Hint.
Jeff O is a dope smoker. Suddenly it all makes more sense.
That's the alcohol talking, buddy. Take two aspirin and PM me in the morning.
Weird to me how flat retarded some are about it. I chalk it up to unfamiliarity and, lets just be honest here, gullibility.... "The government says so, it must be true!"....
I still find it hard to understand, where someone who's against the legality and distribution of this crap is a hypocrite.....
Seems those who think so, assume that we who condemn it are automatically alcohol users and abusers....
They also like to tell us about its 'redeeming value' to society, and explain how harmless it all is.... yet turn a blind eye and deaf ear, to all the social problems it causes in a community...
Legalization of it in this state, and ideal growing conditions, has brought criminal elements into this community from out of state along with their ganglike attitudes and activities....
but that seems acceptable to the accusers of its a harmless drug, since they can say so without having to live here and put up with all the BS it brings our community....
and so many proponents of it, just explain that the users just get high and sit at home and veg out, watch TV and raid the frig.... well someone needs to inform our local idiots and users, because they are not all with the program... they go into stores and shoplift..( which has increase with the drug traffic in town after legalization)
have friends in town who have jobs dealing with the public, who have been threatened at gun point, by people being high..in particular one who is a handicapped Marine who drives a tow truck.... he first reported it to the local police, their response was to tell him to arm himself, and immediately issued him a CCW...
In a quiet town a year ago, you didn't need to arm yourself to walk down the street after dark in the city limits... legalized dope and for some reason now you do...
all of you "its safe stuff" crowd need to explain that to the local dopers... guess they all didn't get the memo...
know local Mexicans who got away from all that crap in Mexico and they are now probably the most angry about it being legalized here.... one doesn't have to explain the effects of it on society in general to them....they had left that behind in Mexico... now its followed them here...
so for the users who its harmless, well enjoy it then in the privacy of your home or out while camping etc...
but hate to be bringing a news flash.... not all dope smokers and users are as docile as you are about it all...
And your post above about how legalization killed your town, I'm sorry, don't buy it one second. If nothing else, Southern Oregon was gangster central as far as black market weed growers in decades past! Right? Many of those the transitioned to being quasi-legal "medical" growers. Some of THOSE, will transition to licensed, regulated, legal suppliers of the recreational trade in the stuff.
And all along its been everywhere. Cheap. Easy to get. That hasn't changed one bit.
Legal weed did not make your town somehow MORE dangerous 'cause of the eeevil weed smokers. To the contrary.
I think you are seeing what you want to see.
I've been around the stuff since the 70's. Hey, I'm a guitar player, whadaya gonna do?! [bleep] happens. It truly is no big deal. Motivated people stay motivated. Talented people stay talented. Good parents stay good parents. Good employees stay good employees. If/when that's not true, 99% of the time it's cause of people being people, not because of weed.
Honestly, if it didn't exist, some of y'all would just find something else to attach your purile, self-serving fantasies to, about "why the other guy sucks!"... get over it. It's mild. It has real benefits. Legalization is a big win for FREEDOM and democracy. Find some new thing to demonize. This battle is lost. Sanity won.
"We're" not going to stop at weed, right? Other folks prefer to chase different dragons.......a substance is a substance. Booze, weed, meth, heroin..... if we're gonna sit at the table we should be all in.
while you are busy waving your American Flag, while wearing your MaryJane supporting T Shirt, in your shorts and birkenstocks up there in Eugene....
why don't you get in the real world for a minute, and come on down and experience it all.... I doubt Roy nor I have any real motivation to "act like" its destroying Hooterville here.... there has been a dramatic change in this town just since it was legalized....
your posts are speculations from your keyboard....
Roy and I live here....it must be some other reason we suddenly see a whole lot more black guys around town with out of state plates... in a town where their presence is a real rarity... maybe they are getting interested in investing in the timber industry...thinking a Black Logger is going to be the next cool thing to be... kinda like a development of "Shaft"... chains, jewelry and a chain saw...
and just what 'self serving fantasies' do you think we have down this way?? we are just fantasizing the community is getting screwed over, that there is an increase in crime of all types, suddenly more people not seeing stop signs and red lights causing fender benders, or people getting clipped in cross walks... and the increase in patients being brought into the ER is strictly because of Obama Care...
and 'sanity' won what? You are telling us that a Doper Being High, has anything to do with Sanity? if that is stressing you out there Jeffry, just have another hit or two and go to bed, you won't remember any of it in the morning anyway....
I've never seen anyone get high and beat their wife.
It generally works the other way around...
"How'd you get that back eye?"
"Oh, I fell down." (That's the lie that gets used when she doesn't give her hubby the $40 he wanted for a gram.)
Not an unusual situation at all, not that it is the weed's fault, nor can one say that moods and behaviors are entirely disassociated from it either.
Ok, I'm calling BS on that one, Klik.
You can call it what you want to, but it changes nothing. I have only seen it repeated countless times, so it's probably nothing. "Dope before diapers!" too, if you want to face reality.
You can call it what you want to, but it changes nothing. I have only seen it repeated countless times, so it's probably nothing. "Dope before diapers!" too, if you want to face reality.
You know people that would let their kids go without diapers so they can buy pot? Sounds like you know more that one.
One thing I don't get about potheads is why they wanted to legalize it. It is readily available, at reasonable prices. Getting caught with it was a slap on the wrist. Now, they want to pay a tax on it? They want government control? Makes no sense.
A slap on the wrist that stays on your record for the rest of your life.
I still find it hard to understand, where someone who's against the legality and distribution of this crap is a hypocrite.....
Seems those who think so, assume that we who condemn it are automatically alcohol users and abusers....
They also like to tell us about its 'redeeming value' to society, and explain how harmless it all is.... yet turn a blind eye and deaf ear, to all the social problems it causes in a community...
Legalization of it in this state, and ideal growing conditions, has brought criminal elements into this community from out of state along with their ganglike attitudes and activities....
but that seems acceptable to the accusers of its a harmless drug, since they can say so without having to live here and put up with all the BS it brings our community....
and so many proponents of it, just explain that the users just get high and sit at home and veg out, watch TV and raid the frig.... well someone needs to inform our local idiots and users, because they are not all with the program... they go into stores and shoplift..( which has increase with the drug traffic in town after legalization)
have friends in town who have jobs dealing with the public, who have been threatened at gun point, by people being high..in particular one who is a handicapped Marine who drives a tow truck.... he first reported it to the local police, their response was to tell him to arm himself, and immediately issued him a CCW...
In a quiet town a year ago, you didn't need to arm yourself to walk down the street after dark in the city limits... legalized dope and for some reason now you do...
all of you "its safe stuff" crowd need to explain that to the local dopers... guess they all didn't get the memo...
know local Mexicans who got away from all that crap in Mexico and they are now probably the most angry about it being legalized here.... one doesn't have to explain the effects of it on society in general to them....they had left that behind in Mexico... now its followed them here...
so for the users who its harmless, well enjoy it then in the privacy of your home or out while camping etc...
but hate to be bringing a news flash.... not all dope smokers and users are as docile as you are about it all...
I'll just address the highlighted part since it is an honest question and deserves an honest answer.
The hypocrisy comes not from assuming that people who are against pot are automatically alcoholics - although some blatantly brag about their use of alcohol - but rather the opposite. If someone is against the deleterious individual and societal effects of an intoxicant like marijuana then where is the equal outcry against an intoxicant that has been proven over and over to have very serious consequences, both for individuals and society? Drunk drivers kill thousands, drinking and hangovers result in thousands or millions of lost hours of productivity, and alcoholism can and does destroy families. Where is the outcry to completely ban tobacco, with very harsh penalties attached? The use of tobacco kills people in a horrible manner, slowly choking to death and/or dying in miserable prolonged agony.
If someone wants to condemn the use of marijuana every time some thread about it appears, why do I not see these same posters vehemently attacking the use of alcohol in the many threads where people ask others "what'cha drinking tonight?" and boast about how sophisticated they are because of the high priced distilled spirits they prefer? Where is the outcry against tobacco when folks brag about what sophisticated people they are by the high priced smokes they use? When these things are pointed out the reply is that "I am responsible, I can use these things wisely." So what?
If one intoxicant with deleterious health effects is bad then why aren't all of them bad? True, some are more intoxicating than others and some affect some people more than others, some can handle them and not ruin their lives, others can't. But looking at society as a whole, if someone wants the government to impose harsh penalties against everyone that uses an intoxicant - the responsible and irresponsible alike are penalized equally - then why is that desire to ban the use of intoxicants so selective?
Why are the people who wish to protect us from one substance not equal proponents of protecting us from equally harmful substances? Some might quibble about calling this selective umbrage "hypocrisy" and that's okay with me. I call it hypocrisy.
Now, if someone calls for the outright ban on marijuana while at the same time talking about their use of alcohol and/or tobacco, then that hypocrisy should be obvious.
I've seen marijuana delay lives and I've seen alcohol completely ruin lives. My best friend in high school sat around his apartment for some 8-9 years just smoking dope and getting by with manual labor. He finally got his act together and is now the head of a department at a university in S. Florida. My "brother" is an alcoholic homeless bum living on the streets of Ft. Lauderdale, FL (last I heard, AFAIK he may be dead by now). One of my friends in high school lost his driver's license for 10 years due to repeated drunk driving convictions. My best friend's father (the dope smoker) took months to die at age 55, slowly choking to death from tobacco. Alcohol was partly responsible for my divorce - my wife was the alcoholic, btw.
But be that as it may, my point of view is that some people are responsible and some aren't. Allow adults to run their own lives. If and only if they show that they cannot handle a substance responsibly, then perhaps the government can step in to protect us from their irresponsibility. We don't tell people "you can't drink at all", we tell them "if you drink and drive you endanger innocent people so then we drop the hammer on you." I feel the same way toward all intoxicants. If you want to use them, fine, that's your business, but if you endanger me or mine through their use, then you get your ass handed to you.
Are you saying you get in trouble for having too much vodka in your house? And if so, why?
Dave
Lots of places in Alaska are, by 'local option', 'dry'. (To say 'dry' is a misnomer is an understatement.)
It's a very easy lesson in simple economics to see how alcohol bootlegging works. A simple, cheap bottle, 750 ml, of booze - usually vodka, whiskey, or rum- was once $10-12 in town (Anchorage) and $120-140 locally (dry village). Troopers, due to pressure from various sources, beefed up interdiction and enforcement, and penalties increased (misdemeanors became felonies, etc). Suddenly booze prices went up as supplies became tighter and risks higher. So those 20 bottles of low shelf liquor would have made half the payments on a new snowmachine, about $5000, but instead the VPSO caught them and now someone faces a felony charge.
So why ADD ANOTHER factor to the equation? did you not see my post RE: Holland?
Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho
Yes, I saw your post on Holland. If adding another factor is bad then wouldn't removing a factor be good? MAKE ALCOHOL ILLEGAL!!!!
I'd very much like to see examples of countries where widespread use of alcohol made the roads in that country safer while lowering both violent encounters and divorce rates. While we're at it, I'd like to see examples of countries where widespread use of nicotine, both in smoked and smokeless forms, lowered the rates of cancer and emphysema.
Oh, wait, alcohol and nicotine are the drugs you use so we need to leave them alone.
Did you understand that I am not for drugs, but am against hypocrisy?
And there it is....they can spin it any way they want but jorge and a few others are simply being hypocrites.....
Apparently for some here FG all vices are equal, but some are more equal than others.
But no crazier or sadder than the effects of alcohol & drugs on the youth in some of our remote communities
I long ago lost count of the young people I've worked with, not to mention the parents, who've taken or lost their lives, mostly alcohol related. My fingers and toes could probably be doubled and still not be enough.
Maybe I was wrong. Maybe we should legalize everything that makes people stupid, not just most of the things. Don't want to be called a hypocrite, you know, Next, I'll be a racist if Snoop can't get his smoke on without hassles from the Man. Chronic - yeah, that's the ticket!
Quote
(CNSNews.com) -- Smoking marijuana regularly is linked to as many economic and social problems in early midlife as being dependent on alcohol, a recently published international study has found.
The findings “show that cannabis was not safe for the long-term users tracked in our study,” University of California/Davis Associate Professor Magdalena Cerdá, the study’s lead researcher, said in a press release.
“Alcohol is still a bigger problem than cannabis because alcohol use is more prevalent than cannabis use,” Cerda added.
“But as the legalization of cannabis increases around the world, the economic and social burden posed by regular cannabis use could increase as well,” she said.
Researchers found that regular cannabis smokers “ended up in a lower social class than their parents, with lower-paying, less skilled and less prestigious jobs than those who were not regular cannabis smokers."
It's Like, I don't care about nothin man, roll another blunt, Yea (ohh ohh ohh),
I was gonna clean my room until I got high I was gonna get up and find the broom but then I got high my room is still messed up and I know why (why man?) yea heyy, - cause I got high [repeat 3X]
I was gonna go to class before I got high I coulda cheated and I coulda passed but I got high (La da da da da da da da da) I am taking it next semester and I know why, (why man?) yea heyy, - cause I got high [repeat 3X]
I was gonna go to work but then I got high I just got a new promotion but I got high now I'm selling dope and I know why (why man?) yea heayy, - cause I got high [repeat 3X]
I was gonna go to court before I got high I was gonna pay my child support but then I got high they took my whole paycheck and I know why (why man?) yea heayy, - cause I got high [repeat 3X]
I wasn't gonna run from the cops but I was high I was gonna pull right over and stop but I was high (La da da da da da da da da) Now I am a paraplegic and i know why (why man?) yea heayy, - because I got high [repeat 3X]
I was gonna pay my car note until I got high I wasn't gonna gamble on the boat but then I got high now the tow truck is pulling away and I know why (why man?) yea heyy, - because I got high [repeat 3X]
I messed up my entire life because I got high I lost my kids and wife because I got high now I'm sleeping on the sidewalk and I know why (why man?) yea heyy, - cause I got high [repeat 3X
Well my name is afroman and I'm from east pomdale (east-pom-dale) and all the tolweed I be smokin is bomb as helllllll (excelent delivery)
thanks for your well thought out and thoughtful reply...
you are bringing up valid points...
the question was proposed by someone who doesn't use alcohol, yet has had to support a brother who was court ordered to go thru AA for 2 years...................
Also where you bring up the use of cigarettes....I am also a person who has never smoked a cigarette in my life, much less had one touch my lips...
I noted the effects of cigarettes and alcohol on people when I was growing up... not only around family members but also folks in general...despite the use of alcohol and cigarettes being tied to the stigma of being cool or being 'manly'... didn't mean a thing to me... I saw easily that both had an adverse effect on the individual and directly or indirectly on their families and those around them...
I think I was bound and determined to never use either by the time I was 10 years old... As a freshman in college I partied hard with friends... but saw my buddies turn into alcoholics and I didn't, so I saw that as a wake up call...
Sat up 72 hours straight with a good friend in college, who had used LSD his first year of college... he was undergoing hallucinations 3 years after the fact... begging me not to leave him alone..
Working in a military hospital in the service, I had way too many patients who were dying of lung cancer from a lifetime of smoking.... also was assigned to young men as patients who had fried their minds on drugs, or had to deal with those that overdosed....
passing thru my ICU rotation, I had to listen to a mother daily wail over and over, about her 19 year old son turning himself into a vegetable after trying PCP while on guard duty one night..the kid was my assigned patient... kept my mouth shut, but felt like telling the mother the answer to her "why?" was her kid did it to himself..
or the other guy I was assigned to, that was paralized from the neck down, because he broke his neck in a car accident while high... 24 year old Black Soldier, athletic etc... condemned to spending the rest of his life in a wheel chair...
I never had the slightest inclination to try the crap, but even if I did, that would have cured me of it...People always think the consequinces with be paid some other day in the future and then they cry when the time comes.. they did it to themselves... that is what I'd hate to deal with...
Freaks me out but I shut up, when I see medical personnel who should know better, still drinking or doing drugs or smoking..
Life is short enough, I don't see why people always have to push it to become quicker... their philosophy is as long as it isn't today....
meth heads.... how quick that shortens one's life.. but they don't seem to care, until the time comes at least..
too much of a price tag to pay, for just 'getting high'...for themselves and society in general...
I feel the same way toward all intoxicants. If you want to use them, fine, that's your business, but if you endanger me or mine through their use, then you get your ass handed to you.
Around here you have to watch out for people driving 35 mph on the freeway.......
Booze and meth have ruined the people around here.
Earlier this week they found a 1 year old in a dumpster 20 miles down the road.
After searching for several hours, the FBI and Roosevelt County authorities joined the search. Trottier said that Red Dog later confessed to an officer that she punched the infant three times and caused her death. Red Dog then put the body in a blue duffel bag and left the bag in a dumpster. The body was found by officers at 1:55 p.m. on Wednesday, April 20. After questions from public defender Mary Zemyan, Trottier said Red Dog’s confession was recorded. When asked if the defendant was under the influence of an intoxicating substance at the time of the alleged crime, Trottier answered, “It could be very well possible.” Trottier testified natural cases were ruled out during an autopsy. He said the 13-month-old died from blunt force injuries.
Alcohol has been around for thousands of years, altering the mind has been a past time for a very long time, we have more people and more mind altering substances, with a news media that is driven by blood and gore, a deadly combination.
Take a look at our worlds leaders, and the ones that have been taken out in the last one hundred and fifty years, the death toll is staggering to say the least, yet accepted by the masses.
Today's tolerances for death is also unprecedented, abortions kill millions of babies each year,babies mind you, the very best selling of video games are the most violent and realistic blood splattered killings, and today's music, and I apologize for referring to it as music, but the point needs made, its barbaric in nature.
As a breed, man kind is not a happy beast, smart yet sadistic enough to enjoy the misery of our fellow man. Some folks celebrate life, others shy from it, in the big picture so many of us try to change our own views of how we see our daily lives, we always have and always will, its the drug of choice that becomes the biggest variable.
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