Before you blow a gasket, let me tell you I am Canadian. I am not young, pushing 50, and have voted for right wing parties basically for my whole life. As you may know, we have universal health care. Our taxes pay for whatever is needed, whatever the issue, wherever you may find yourself in our country. No one has ever died for lack of being able to afford the care they needed or went bankrupt as a result. It's in our version of a Constitution, and it's just a part of our national fabric, and to us seems just the human thing to do.

So can I ask why people got so wound up at Obamacare? I am not trying to stir a hornet's nest, I am just asking an honest question, and genuinely want to know, as watching CNN or Fox just seems like a bunch of angry people yelling:)

Oh God.

You need to look up the Affordable Care Act and see the differences. Its not the same system. Its not paid for the same way. Many other things as well.

sns, You sound like a Canadian friend that thought obamacare is the same as the Canadian plans. It is not, everyone I have talked to, insurance has gone up, and a lot.

sns2,

First there were millions who didn't WANT insurance whom we tax payers are now paying for. Second I will only mention my daughter and son-in-law's experience because I know about it. Their premium went from $600 per month to $1,200 per month. Their deductible went from $1,000 to $12,000. If you have any idea about cost, you can see they functally don't have insurance anymore.

If O-Care is eliminated there won't be millions of folks loose something they don't want. You can't loose what you don't want. It is a relief to see it go.

It was written by the pharmaceutical companies' lobbyists. Spiraling costs for insurance companies and guaranteed profits for pharmaceuticals,which would eventually force USA into single payer. It was designed to "fail" from the start.

Health care costs for young middle class population ended up being more than their mortgages. Benefits for medium to large scale employer plans sucked. In my cases for same cost to employer plan went from small copay to the first $4k employee had to cover. Would hate to see how small employers got screwed.

My first response would have been , If you have to ask then you're probably too stupid to understand the answer. Then I saw that you are in Canada. Since you are in Canada I will give you a pass. Just stay up there in Canada & live happily ever after.

Mike

The ACA kills the self employed or small business man who purchases insurance on their own.

In the last 4 years, my monthly premiums have more than doubled, and my Max. Out of Pocket has more than quadrupled, all while my benefits have decreased.

Obamacare is nothing more than wealth redistribution. It takes, at gunpoint, from those that have and gives to those who have not.

The difference is in price controls on providers.

In the US, providers are under far less constrictions on price of service. They set the price, people or their insurance pays. If they get TOO greedy, they can be dropped by insurance networks, but in medium and small towns, it's near impossible to drop the only hospital.

In Canada, prices are set much more top down, and providers are closer to price takers.

As a result, we get much more health care per person (and pay for same). Unfortunately, we really don't get significantly better outcomes than our Canadian neighbors.

Trumpcare 1 was a lot worse

night and day,
Your taxes pay for it(everyone pays),everyone is covered.
O care,some people pay higher premiums and deductables so all can be covered.
For me personally,my premiums are about 3x what they were before,and we have to spend 7k in deductables before ins. kicks in and its only 80% coverage.
I don't consider "that" the human thing to do....

Obamacare means that the middle class effectively has NO health insurance, so that scumbags do.

1. Whenever the government gets more involved in any complex system, they screw it up.

2. If Obamacare were eliminated IN ITS ENTIRETY tomorrow, not a single American would lose health care.

3. Obamacare was designed as a hybrid system that would eventually fail under it's own weight so they could try to leap frog into 100% government run health care.

sns
I am originally from Canada so will try to answer what you are asking.
Have many family member still there and some of the unbelievable waits they go through to see a Doc. is ridiculous. A Nephew needed heart surgery to fix a valve waiting nine months to get the surgery is totally un-acceptable. Having the Gov't making decisions on your health and not you and you Doc. is totally un-acceptable. With the Gov't controlling the purse strings, they in effect are controlling the populace, whether you realize it or not, not a good situation. The Gov't is also controlling a bigger portion of the economy by doing this. Down here I call my Doc. and get an appointment from the next day to less than week, can you do that each and every time? Need a Gall bladder surgery Doc. say would you want it done this week or next, try that in Canada. I hear how my relatives have to wait,
Just my take on the differences that exist. Cheers NC

Your country lacks the first two Amendments.

As such, your opinions and questions shan't be considered.

Good day sir.



Travis

It let .gov dig 20%-25% deeper into the pocket book of most working folks who buy , and almost doubled the cost of providing ins for companies.

Ex. A 60 yo widowed female on $2400 per mo. income went from
paying $750 to paying $1250/mo.

IOW, shes now paying for a bunch of liberal scumbags and unemployed black, browns and whites.

A guy with a wife and 2 kids went from paying $11,000 to 19,000 a year, after losing his job.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Instead of providing a safety net for all citizens, the ACA devastates the self-employed and working poor.

Another "bonus" for those with good, employer-provided plans is that really good ones, the so-called Cadillac plans, are taxed at an astounding rate (the employer is taxed), presumeably to force them to cut the benefits so everyone is equally miserable. Fortunately, my former employer has honored their commitment to their employees and retirees and while co-pays have gone up a bit and active employees had to pay a small part of the premium, the insurance is still excellent. The Medicare Advantage plan I started this year is, if anything, better than my PPO was.

Obama also cut all kinds of side deals with his political supporters that weren't available to everyone, another Third World Hellhole aspect of his regime.

Because it bent us over is why it ain't worth a [bleep].

Those here now that cant afford new ins prices and food will not have ins and will only be getting ER care. IOW, lots of people who could afford ins 2 years ago are gonna die, unable to afford meds or dr appoints.

One lady totally disabled hadnt to pay $19/mo. on some disability plan. Starting Jan this year the bill is 465/mo.
She cant afford her diabetic meds or drs visits. I guess when her foot ulcer gets gangrene the er will amputate.

Not going to comment on Obamacare, but am going to say something about our "universal health care" system we have here in socialist Canada.

My biggest problem here in Canada is that I pay a lot of taxes to pay for health care to look after people who do nothing to look after themselves with no financial accountability whatsoever. The ER is plugged full of people who eat too much, smoke too much, do drugs, drink too much, live dangerous healthstyles, fail to exercise on any level, etc, etc, etc. I don't want my taxes to pay for these people or any others who do nothing to improve their lives. Might as well add welfare and unemployment insurance to the list of wasted money on social programs as well. I once heard the CBC report that here in little NB (pop 750,000) we spend $6000 per minute on healthcare alone and we have the fattest people in the country right here. fat parents have fat kids and we get left on the hook looking after lazy diabetic kids, soon to be adults for life. My oldest daughter was an emergency room nurse for years. You would NOT believe the stories she comes home with which amount to the vast majority of the people she would see every day.

One can only guess that the Obama system would be the same

#3 is absolutely spot on. It was meant to push us to a single payer system, that many don't want in the U.S.

Those here now that cant afford new ins prices and food will not have ins and will only be getting ER care. IOW, lots of people who could afford ins 2 years ago are gonna die, unable to afford meds or dr appoints.

One lady totally disabled hadnt to pay $19/mo. on some disability plan. Starting Jan this year the bill is 465/mo.
She cant afford her diabetic meds or drs visits. I guess when her foot ulcer gets gangrene the er will amputate.

Her yearly deductible went from $500 to $5000.

Shan't?

Good point, though. That's what happens when English principles are applied by fugging Frenchmen.

Having lived in Calgary for just shy of five years and never able to retain a family GP, well call me tarnished. Oh, and that my wife could not get into a procedure for months whilst in pain. I was fortunate that my company paid my Canadian taxes, very fortunate.

If you can pay, you'll pay a bunch!

If you can't pay, you'll be subsidized by taxes on those who already payed too much.

It's such a good idea it was shoved down the citizens throat before Congress knew what they were signing but it doesn't apply to Congress so, Congress doesn't care.

The Insurance companies make more guaranteed money because Everybody is coerced into participating (healthy people pay for the sick for the betterment of all) or are Taxed for not participating.

Problem is, there's going to be a big adjustment as the population ages and there won't be enough healthy young workers to pay into a system to cover the bills of the subsidized older/poorer folks along with paying the cost of the system itself and the rising cost of Prescriptions.

Other than that it makes sense... not!

Too many assumptions and not nearly enough absolutes. Pretty much that simple.

They/He knew it would fail from the start.

This^^^^^^. IOW, Medicaid. Where we would get paid $65 for scheduling appt, workup patient with a trained, certified tech, doc examine and treat pt, put visit in EHR, let pt check out, pay billing to send bill, book keeping, ins, electric, workers comp, rent, equipment at a cost of $80/patient visit.

The more Medicaid pts you see, the quicker you go out of business, which is why almost no one sees medicaid pts.

And no one was without health care before Obama care anyway. If they didn't have insurance, the ER would treat them, "free" if they couldn't pay (Our premiums and bills were used to cover costs - just no profits for the providers to speak of) assuming one went in. and that's how Obama care came about- to provide profit on treating previously uninsured largely at the expense of the already insured, and partially via all taxpayers.

Which is one reason, pre-Obama, why two aspirins in hospital cost $4, a heated lap blanket while one waits in the lobby for car, $60 (you don't get to keep the blanket), etc.

With Obama care, none of these costs went down, and premiums for those already carrying insurance went up. Drastically in most cases. Plus of course Federal "guarantees" of payment (taxpayer money) and forced mandatory insurance (or else a fine) for all.

Fortunately, the wife and I have worked for "self-insured" organizations for most of our lives (BC/BS, Meritain, Aetna, etc were hired as managers only)- so ours did not skyrocket badly for obvious reasons.

Taking into account what may be a little rosy-viewed (propaganda?) by the Costa Rican guide last February, they have a system somewhat like Canada's, only probably better. Very socialist, tho!

To work, one has to have a government work permit. To get said permit, one has to be 18, and graduated from High School. (98% literacy rate in CR) Every salary, regardless of amount or whether one or multiplesalaries in a family, is taxed at a flat 20%. One salary provides medical health care for the entire family. No salary, no family health care. A clinic in every community. Every qualifying family gets a home visit by a health care worker once a month, and every family member is examined. Small communities with less work load may get two/mo visits. For more stuff than the clinic can handle, the patient is sent, transportation provided, to a regional hospital. Patient has no choice which- depends on who has room and can treat the problem. Now that's Big Brother!

Public education is free through the 12th grade, college is subsidized. Every kid has a computer during the school year. They are gradually implementing a system whereby English language instruction will eventually begin in the first grade, and continue thru 12th.

CR has no military - we cover their ass. That frees up a LOT of tax money....

I have to admit, if working as presented, I rather admire it. Somehow I think there may be a few rats in the bedding...

1-because it is socialist, and I am a conservative capitalist.
Socialism has proven over and over that it is mediocre at best, disastrous at its worst. Neither scenario is at all appealing.

2- our government does nothing well, least of all care for anyones health, yours is very similar, you just havent figured that out yet apparently.

3- I find it difficult to believe you even need to ask? Please dont immigrate to the US.

We have as many illegal Mexicans as Canada's entire population.

We've always had our insurance through my wife's employer. since Obamacare started our premiums have increased over $1000 a month and the amount we have to pay out of pocket before the insurance kicks in has increased almost 5 fold. Not to mention the current policy doesn't cover nearly as much. That's why I personally hate it

For what little we go to the dr it would be cheaper to buy a catastrophic coverage policy for large amounts and self insure by paying the premiums into a separate account. But if we do that we pay a large tax penalty for being "uninsured"

I'm self-employed. My insurance comes through my wife's job. If I had to buy insurance, it would be very expensive. If I had to buy 0bamaCare, I'd be insured, but the co-pay would make me unable to afford to go to the doctor.

As to the difference between your Canadian plan and 0bamaCare, you say ...


Under 0bamaCare, we may be insured wherever we find ourselves in our country, but if I decide to drive 5 miles north and cross the state line, my insurance won't pay there because I'll be "out of network." That's one of the big problems 0bamaCare did not fix.

Steve.

First, osamie said we could keep our insurance, if we wanted it--- that was a lie!

Second, osamie said we could keep our doctor, if we wanted to--- that was a lie!

Third, my insurance, on my wife and I went from approx. $325/mth with a $1000 deductible to $1000+ per month with a $5000 deductible!

Fourth, if you are a lazy ass bum, the government will subsidize your insurance and you wont have to pay a dime. You will supposedly have to pay a deductible, but they will even waive that if you claim you can't pay it.

Fifth, if you couldn't afford insurance, before obamacare, there were charity hospitals that you could go to and get free treatment. And, if you had an emergency, any hospital had to take you, stabilize you, and then send you to the charity hospital, if you couldn't pay.

Sixth, before obamacare, everyone had the option to buy insurance. Some did, some didn't. Those that did, had insurance to help pay medical cost, but they had to give up something to pay for the insurance. Those that chose not to buy medical insurance, got to spend all their money on whatever they wanted to. When they get sick or hurt, why should I be forced to pay their medical bills?

Just thought of some other facts...

Under obamacare, there is only 1 hospital in Shreveport, La that you can go to... I know of 6 other hospitals, but they won't take obamacare patients.

Also, where I live, there is a hospital and clinic 7 miles from me. The nearest doctor that will see obamacare patients is 30 miles away and I've heard you will wait all day to see the doctors. I was told it was so bad, the doctors will not make appts., it's first come, first served. Not sure if that's true or not, but I wouldn't doubt it.

The man did ask a polite question.
As I said, it seems Canadians somehow got the false impression that obamacare was the same as OHIP, or what the other provinces have.
I'll blame the CBC?

Sns, if I may ask, at what age are women in Canada given govt paid mamograms and when are all given a routine colonoscopy?

Not really, there were a few left handed comments in his post.

Besides the practical points, Obamacare was designed to secure the votes of the indigent, the unemployed, the unemployable, the illegal immigrants, the lazy, the ghetto rats, the welfare suckers, the stupid, and the liberal, who all have a mentally illness.

For the Democrats, of course.

We do have the first amendment exactly the same as you. The second? Not so much.

I sat at a supper table with a Canadian friend that told me Obama was the best president we have ever had. When I asked where he got that idea, he said, "He got you health care".
At the end of the conversation, I recommended he seek mental heath help.
Somehow some Canadians have been mislead, and how.

OK, I'll be nice and attempt to give you a straight answer. If you are trolling me, FOAD in advance.

1.) Originally, the Think-tanks came up with the idea that the cost of Healthcare would be lower if you can get more young healthy people paying because they don't use the services. Fine in theory, asinine in practice.

Young healthy people, especially those self employed or beginning in their careers do not buy health insurance because it is big cost.

2.) The gov't sees this and then FORCED everyone to get a policy or be fined on tax day thousands of dollars. FORCED-NO CHOICE.

3.) Initially, the idea was that you could buy a very reasonable policy that covered catastrophic illness or injury. That went out the window as soon as the politicians got to work. They demanded pre existing conditions be covered, prescription drugs, eye care, maternity, etc. etc. and ALL plans sold must meet these requirements.

4.) Insurance companies looked at the fact that 80% of all plans they sold did not meet these new requirements and were going to cost more, so they had to jack up the rates on the new stuff and drop the old. Suddenly, you have a situation like at my office where you have a bunch of 50+ year old women with mandatory maternity coverage. Are you chitting me? Their baby days died with menopause but I'm paying for maternity.

So to make a long story short, the new requirements AFTER the Dems where through screwing with it demanded everyone in America have aCadillac insurance plan. Things got more expensive at an unrealistic rate. I pay $10,000 per YEAR PER EMPLOYEE and $23,000 for my family. Five years ago it was half that.

GETTING THE PICTURE YET? BUT WAIT, IT GETS WORSE

5.) For those below a certain annual income, the Gov't will subsidize the monthly premium. So not only am I getting raped as a self employed businessman paying the insurance for my employees and family, my tax dollars are paying for somebody else!!!! Some people are getting it for free on the backs of the tax payers

6.) Meanwhile, the Insurance companies are looking for ways to limit their loses and to stay profitable so they are dropping their reimbursement rates to MDs and all other providers. We have a situation where the cost of delivering services is going UP while the reimbursements are going DOWN. Healthcare providers have grouped up, formed networks and done just about everything they can do to stay profitable.

You must remember that Healthcare providers in this country LOSE MONEY for every Medicare procedure performed. That's right, all that stuff foe the over 65 crowd gets reimbursed at a level BELOW what it costs to deliver the service. They lose money on every Medicare patient and are getting squeezed horrendously by Obamacare plans.

7.( The Democrats are fine with all of this because many of them WANT OUR SYSTEM TO FAIL! That would make possible the introduction of Government controlled and sponsored healthcare complete with a national VAT tax that the poor wouldn't pay but the rest would. More tax and a bigger drain on Capitalism. That's what they want.


GOT IT NOW? SUX, EH?

IIRC, mammograms start at around 35-40,and if you have a history of breast cancer in your family, which was my wife's case, they start sooner. Colonoscopies start at around 50. don't go to the bank on either of those answers, but they are pretty close.

No, nothing left handed at all. If you read that into it, then you were mistaken. It was an honest question. Nothing more. Nothing less.

imagine you own a bakery

now imagine that everyone in town had to buy a loaf of bread from you

and now imagine that the people who couldn't afford a loaf of bread from you were going to be given money so they could buy one.

how much do you charge for a loaf of bread?

(hint: you won't be dropping the price)

Its complicated, here are several points-

My health insurance policy after Obamacare came in was cancelled, and the replacement I had to buy was approximately $500 more per month and the deductible was substantially higher.
My capital gains tax went up several percent. In the two years of OBamacare before I went on medicare it cost my wife and I between $20 and 30,000. For that I got nothing.

I have friends and business associates in Saskatoon, Regina and Winnepeg. One is a nurse. When they have serious health issues, they come to the Mayo clinic in Minnesota and pay cash. In my view, socialized medicine is giving marginal health care to all, instead of letting people manage their
own health care and costs.

The US government (and I expect most if not all governments) do not have the ability to manage such matters properly. Look at or Social Security system in the usa Its nearly broke. That is largely because of the governments incompetence in managing something they have no business managing in the first place.

Obomacare is not about providing health care. It is about more government control and higher taxes.

Lastly, another one of my Canadian friends who is way left politically needles me about how cheap his health insurance is. I remind him that he paid for it in taxes and paid for the insurance of a few others that wouldn't or couldn't work.

If this is a debate on the better health care, US vs Canada, Doc Rocket has pretty covered that in the past, and Doc Rocket moved from Canada, to Texas.

Thank you to all who responded with helpful answers. I have read them all and learned a helluva lot more than watching the angry soundbytes that now masquerade as newscasts.

I can now see why this issue is so divisive. Holy crap those premium increases are beyond bizarre. Filtering through the answers, it seem the insurance companies are the only ones benefiting from this.

It sounds like it is hard to compare our systems. To begin with, our level of healthcare, wait times for surgeries and critical procedures, and overall outcomes fall far behind what your country offers. People who can afford it often head south to get stuff done that it would take months to receive up here.

However, it sounds like Obummer has thrown a real screw into what you folks have lived with.

On the old Grocho Marx show, You Bet Your Life, the duck would drop down, and you'd win $50, US, of course.

In other words, "BINGO!"

The irony is that lots of US residents are now going south to get medical work done. I know several folks that have gone to Mexico for things like dental crowns and ACL repairs. A fraction of the cost and US trained doctors. Medical tourism, they call it.

Many of us just despise socialism. It is also named after the pos that founded it. That is enough for me.

sns2, maybe you can answer this question. My friends in Northern MN talk about Canadian citizens coming to the US to have medical procedures done, due in part to the length of time required to have surgery, once you've been approved for it. Do you have any knowledge of Canadians coming to the US for certain, specific treatments they can't get done in a timely manner in CA?

So it's LESS a human thing to not have it?


Again, just ask the f*ing question next time without the BS comments.

The insurance companies aren't benefiting either. They are required to cover more stuff than before. They are not allowed to provide what the customers want, only what the government mandates. As a result, insurers are pulling out of many markets. Something like a quarter of all U.S. counties are now served by a single insurance provider. I believe that is also the case for a few states.

It's also done things like push people out of conventional health insurance and into medicaid. In this state, half of our road funds are now being redirected to medicare. Ocares succeed in not only wrecking our health insurance, but also our roads in the process.

We were hunting quail when he told me he got here as fast as he could.

As a point of order, I'd point out that it's customary for questions of humanness to be run by Gus.

















On a serious note, I'd argue that opportunities toward ultimate humanness are far greater in America than anywhere else in the world.

Insurance companies are in business to make a profit. They have an army of accounts and lawyers and cost control analysts that will make sure they get their 12-18% profit each year. If that margin gets sqeezed, up go the rates or go out of business.

Let us also add that their are counties that insurance companies have just pulled out of. That's correct, there are no companies that sell ANY plan in some areas. Thank you Obama!

Are you low income ?

The main problem with Obamacare is it does nothing to address the fundamental reasons for the rising costs of healthcare(protectionism, limited supply of doctors, etc.).

He is now!

There is not a limited supply of MDs. That is not a problem. The problem you are talking about is a shortage of those willing to try and make a living in rural areas. Specialists can't - not enough demand and no hospitals or surgical centers in Bumphuck Co.

Then you better have a damn good look at who is coming out of Med school these days. 50% women and foreign born. Indian, Chinese, Pakistanis, Iranians, Egyptians and a huge % of women.

GUESS WHERE THEY ALL WANT TO LIVE AND PRACTICE? In Metro areas!

Women with an MD are hunting husbands with similar education. They are not going to Poduckville where the banker and mortician are the closet to her education level.

Rajiv, Wang and Mohamed are not going to farm country to practice radiology. The are moving to the big city.

[i][/i]

Happens all the time. As I said earlier, your level of care is way better than ours. Our wait times are beyond belief, and people do in fact die on waiting lists for surgical procedures that I understand would be addressed in a very timely manner in your country. I am a teacher, and had a student with brain cancer recently go south for a treatment that is not yet available in Canada. More commonly, Canadian residents who can afford it, head south for orthopaedic surgery such as hip and knee replacements that have unreasonable wait times (a year and up).

One of the things we also don't have to deal with is the taxpayer having to pay for millions of illegal immigrants who pay bugger all into the system. We have lazy bums who don't work and contribute, just the same as you folks, but we don't have illegal immigrants. No one wants to sneak into Canada, as it's too bloody cold!

Didn't read all the response's, But, I don't need to, or want to, pay for someone else's insurance and dumb choices. How about me paying for an abortion, someone's birth control pills, I have enough trouble taking care of me. There's more.

I don't question the notion that less populated areas aren't in a position economically to support physicians with more specialized skill sets. However, I'm skeptical about your assessment that female physicians avoid practicing in less populated areas at a proportionally greater rate than male physicians. Is there data supporting a disparity of female physicians practicing outside metro areas?

Correct. Birds of a feather ,.... See it everyday where I live in WV but on the flipside @ Heshey Med Center in Pa. http://hmc.pennstatehealth.org/ when looking at the staff pics the last time I was there the faces of Caucasians were notably absent but relatively close to metropolitan areas.

$$$$$ ????

Yes:

Yes, yes there is a limited supply of MDs.

"Controlling the supply

The marketplace doesn't determine how many doctors the nation has, as it does for engineers, pilots and other professions. The number of doctors is a political decision, heavily influenced by doctors themselves.
Congress controls the supply of physicians by how much federal funding it provides for medical residencies — the graduate training required of all doctors."


Here's a link so you can educate yourself.

sns2 - Just my experience . . . Getting good healthCARE in the US has not been a problem but getting insurance one can afford to help with the cost of healthcare is now beyond belief. Here is a synopsis of OUR costs for insurance (these numbers have been simplified so you can easily see how much the increases really are).

Just using $100 as the base number -
In 2015 our health care ins was $100 / mo.
In 2016 our health care ins (for less coverage and higher deducible) was $151.60 / mo.
Starting Jan 2017 our health care ins (again, for less coverage and higher deducible) is $218.10 / mo.

AND I started on Medicare in Jan 2017 or our mo insurance premium would have been more like $400.

BUT, thanks to O'care, my 62 yo bride can get birth control or access to an abortion clinic . . .

The only way government makes anything come out equally is equally miserable.

I was serious.

Absolutely. I am well connected to three medical schools in my state and the dental school. I hear this from the administrators AND from the students. I SEE it as they flood the Metro area.

MDs are graduating with debt that ranges from $200,00 to $500,000. First of all, they go where the pay is. Next, take your foreign born students, which today are a huge % of the current classes. They grew up in metro areas, they often want to be near some of their culture and like the cosmopolitan living AND they want to go where they can make a buck. Let us also face the fact that Raji or Mohamed are probably not going to fit easily into the cultural fabric of Baldwin Co. Alabama, so they live and work in Mobile or Birmingham.

Now for the women. Female MD grads are 28-32 years old. What is #1 priority for most all women that age? Get married and start a family. They put that off 10 years as it is and that bio clock is ticking. Unless you get the one country girl from Concho CO Texas that wants to move back and marry Willi the Rancher, you can bet your ass she wants to live in Ft. Worth or Austin. More men, more shopping, nicer homes, other highly educated women to have something in common with.

These people are not going to be your ER Doc in Wall, South Dakota or Fargo, Georgia. They don't care how good the pheasant hunting is in SD and sure aren't going to farm a section for fun. Mohamed doesn't give a rats ass how good the hog hunting is in South Georgia. Wang isn't going to the UP in Michigan.

I know kids in Medical School. I ask them where they want to practice and why. Virtually none of them are country boys and girls so virtually none of them seek the rural life. The schools are pumping out more MDs and more of them are going to the Metro areas. Competition is not forcing them out to the country because the facilities and ability to make a living on Medicare and Medicaid is a poor one.

Let that sink in. In the rural areas, reimbursement is largely Medicare and Medicaid. It is restrictive and the pay is poor. So you can be a fine Iranian born US citizen with top skills. Do you chose to practice for low pay where everybody you meet hates the Iranians? ("Oh, not you, we like you, but it's those Ayatollah phucers we hate. Sorry Dr, Rafijinead.")

Lastly, your question really was the ratio between males and females practicing in rural areas. I am content with saying none of the group I mentioned is in a hurry to go rural for the exact reasons I state. You'll get some, but obviously there is still a void.

There are many reasons that ObamaCare was/is hated by many here, not the least of which is that it forces people to buy insurance and insurance coverages that they may not want. But that is the least of its problems. By fundamental principles of economics, it is guaranteed to cause health care costs to explode and to create shortages.

ObamaCare was built on the illusion that well schooled bureaucrats can make better decisions for society than millions of independent people can. That illusion is the height of arrogance.

BS, we have the entitled in Quebec whom we support, we also have a large amount of "new immigrants" that taxpayers are now supporting.

And an flood of illegals now crossing at border points auch as Emerson Manitoba even though it's cold.

Flyer

The first year it became 'affordable', my increased premiums and deductible meant $9600 more out of pocket to hit the deductible. 2017 that number grew to $22,000. Remember, this is just the increase. Anyone who voted for it can kiss my azz.

Because there is no "care" involved. It's about government control. Anyone that voted for it should have to go live on an Indian Reservation see how they like it.

My premium went from $850/month to $2,350/month

I guess on the bright side I could see if I can list a pap smear on ebay.

So was I:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071163/

EFFECT OF GENDER ON CHOICE OF PRACTICE LOCATION
Starting a decade ago, the proportion of women attending medical school increased rapidly. The number of female physicians in the United States more than quadrupled between 1970 and 1991 and has continued to rise.4

Historically, rural medical care was almost exclusively provided by male physicians. This was a product of the paucity of women in medicine and the tendency of the few female graduates to locate in urban areas. Male generalist physicians far outnumber their female counterparts in rural areas across the United States. As the proportion of women in medical schools has increased, there have been concerns that the supply of rural physicians might dwindle if women continue to settle almost exclusively in urban areas and the largest rural cities.

Recent work suggests that the disparity between male and female physicians may be growing less acute with time.5 The gap between male and female family physicians has narrowed dramatically for more recent graduates (figure 5). Still, even women in the most recent graduate cohort are much less likely than their male counterparts to locate in rural areas, and the disparity is greatest for the smaller and more remote communities. The continuing preference of women for urban practice—even though less pronounced than in earlier years—may still pose a problem for the future recruitment of rural physicians.

What the hell are you talking about??? A flood of immigrants crossing the border from the US??? What is a flood in your world? Please post so our American friends can see how stupid this statement is. America has more illegal Mexicans than we have people period. As for Quebec, certainly the more prosperous provinces subsidize them, but they pay taxes. Furthermore, I live in Alberta, so what you have given is a piss in the pot compared to what I have, so quit your bitching.

Sns2,

In my line of work I work sometimes for the federal government and sometimes for the private sector. Please allow me to explain the differences. For the private sector I get paid around $3 a tree to fell trees. So if I fell 7 trees the total bill comes to $21. My last job for the federal government I fell exactly 7 trees on that job. The total bill came to $11,400. Obama care is government ran. Our previous health care was mostly private providers.

Government ran health care spiraled into unaffordable territory in a real hurry. Basically our politicians for the most part are highly educated [bleep] idiots who don't have a clue. They never could not never will compete with the private sector. Honestly, I can get more work done in one day all by myself than a bus load of government employees can in an entire month. They for the most part have been overpaid leaches on society. Now, president Trump is here to weed them worthless [bleep] overpaid leaches out of office and he's done a dann good job so far.☺☺☺

Any more questions



Trystan

Soooo, who HAS benefitted? bureaucrats and do-nuffins, both of whom vote dem.

Anyone with experience involving IHS or the VA knew exactly how this was going to turn out - and it has.

OK, I'll be nice and attempt to give you a straight answer. If you are trolling me, FOAD in advance.




You can always tell a dentist by their attention to prevention. ;-{>8

The last sentence of this abstract states a declining disparity. Further, this paper analyzes data from 1995-1997, twenty years ago. The paper was published in 2000, 17 years ago.

It mandated that we buy something we may not have wanted to participate in.

ACA has nothing to do with medicine.
It is all about Democrat income.

The medical industry is unionized so just like the motor industry opportunity 8 years ago, the Dem's slithered under the sheets to ensure the income from union donations was protected and expanded.

It is that simple.

Just to chime in here. I'm a 58 yr old fellow who lost his job about a year ago. I'm back to work (Thank you, Lord!) In the meantime, my wife and I went on a govt. subsidized obamacare plan.

1) We were paying twice what I'd paid for a family plan provided by my employer. It ate most of what she earned part time and a good part of what I was being paid on unemployment. Our son was living at home, so it was a family plan.
2) When the unemployment ended, we went back to the insurance company to see what would happen next. We were told we were no longer eligible for the subsidy. We had to eject our son off the plan. The premium was 50% higher.
3) The insurance company said we might be eligible to go on Medicaid. We called. They did an analysis and finally said we'd made too much money in the previous 12 months to qualify.
4) January 1, the premium went up to $1500 a month. By then, I was back at work and signed up for health care that sucked (more on that in a minute) We called the insurance company and they had already charged us the January premium and would only refund $200 of the $1500.

Our new insurance plan had two Obama-inspired options. One would insure everything up to a limit of $50,000 per person per year. The other one had a $5000 deductible and no co-pays. We took the latter. A $5000 deductible is close to no insurance at all. However, in all fairness, if either one of us had gotten pregnant or needed an abortion, I'm sure the policy would have paid for it. It would have also paid if one of us had decided to switch genders or needed in-patient treatment for a heroin addiction.

Obamacares only real purpose is to extract wealth and assets from the middle class and force them to rely more on government.

First of all, this bill, was foisted on us by a angry, demagogue of a president who intended a mass wealth redistribution scheme. He had no concern for the actual care of the
American people; rather as an intransigent, progressive-Marxist ideologue he wanted top-down control of most everything usurping the rights of the states on many issues.

He lied. He claimed an average of $2500/family savings per year. You've just read about the average cost of skyrocketing premiums and deductible -- he lied. $8-10k deductibles for a family; $10k in premiums/ year and then maybe 80% coverage. I've seen our surgery drop 20-25% in our regional hospital. The Mayo Clinic CEO was heard in a video to give priority to third party insurers over Medicare patients (the elderly) which generally pays less yet so there is subtle rationing taking place. And it was intended to. When you make folks wait for serious treatment, you are rationing by attrition -- the longer many wait, the fewer who actually will be there when "their number comes up."

He lied. "You can keep your doctor." This was not true either. He lied. He knew it.

It was fabricated -- some twenty thousand pages of regulations -- foisted on us by the Obama-Reid-Pelosi axis of despicables and their minions and involved a 6th of of our economy. It created a vast new bureaucracy that then siphons even more dollars away from actual care to support itself. They -- the Demo's -- did it unilaterally without
Republican input which Obama generally despised, acting rather as a little banana republic dictator.

It's been a huge wet wool blanket on on the fire of businesses as from fifty employees up the employer must provide a plan for your workers; this inhibited growth of small companies getting bigger and seriously cut profits of bigger companies. One guy who owned several restaurants with 48 employees and who anticipated opening a fourth eatery decided not to as he was one of those employers who on the 50-employee cusp. Multiply that by a million. Multiply a big business profits declining by 20% by a couple million more.

Our health care system did need serious revision (tort reform, across state line coverage of insurance policies, etc among other issues) but Obama fixed none of this and actually made it, as with so many other things he did, much worse; so bad that it is collapsing on its own if not replaced. Obama created the fix we are in right now -- the wait until it collapses as insurance companies flee it? or repeal and replace the Republicans are trying but being caught up in congressional, procedural rules regarding how this can legally be done.

I can tell you this: he was the un-American president and the Democrats responsible for this millstone Affordable Care Act (a misnomer and irony if there ever was one) not to mention all the other entitlement programs are superlative at what they do specializing in untruths and deception.

That tells me everything right there - as to why the question was posted..

The horror stories I got from my friends in Canada about their 'health care' tell me all I ever wanna know about gov't-run health care..


I'm outta here..

Not to poke Canada in the eye but how is that, as you described, "The human thing to do"?

I understand. My premium, not a family but mine alone, went from $318 to $1,117 and my deductible is $6,500.
Further, there is only one insurance company who offers health insurance to individuals in OK.
Obamacare is doing exactly what they wanted it to do and that is to fail so we could end up on a single payer system, like Canada.

Might as well cut to the chase, right Doc?

It f...ked us with no grease!

Add to that the simple stats that in 1970 medical school classes were 90% male and now it's close to 50%-50%. That alone will change that rural ratio for the simple fact there are less males by % in medicine.

A number of these posts have said that the ACA was intended to fail. That's not just an analysis of how it works (or doesn't), or Breitbart propaganda. Before he became President, Obama made a speech in which he declared that his intention was to "put the health insurance companies out of business". I've seen the video; it's what the little prick said. He also said it would take a few years. So, not only did he want to take billions from the pockets of working, productive people to give to those who don't, won't, or can't, he also wanted to destroy a huge industry that employs a lot of people and makes a lot of money for stockholders, including pensions and other retirement funds. The economic impact is tremendous, especially when you consider that those wages and profits are going to be spent, and taxed, benefitting the whole system.

The end game here is to create a larger dependent class that will keep voting Democrat, so that they can accomplish the rest of their Socialist agenda, namely turning the U.S. into another Europe, populated by sheeple with no real freedom or real prosperity, except for the ruling classes, who live like royalty.

Let's use OSU_Sig's situation as the best example of how bad this has become. He pays $13,404 per year in premiums ($1,117 X 12). Ad his deductible of $6500 which is that portion he must pay before his "insurance" kicks in. $13,404 + $6500, or $19,904 is what he will have to pay for his health care, AS AN INSURED INDVIDUAL, before any insurance kicks in. So, he is paying allmost $20,000 a year for, what amounts to, catastrophic coverage only, that statistically will not be required. People on the left can't see how he would be better off putting his $20K in the bank and remaining uninsured. What the people on the left do see is the excess of his $20K minus whatever he spends on healthcare, as money going to the federal government for it to redistribute.

TheBigSky nailed it with his last sentence, and I'll quote it here. "What the people on the left do see is the excess of his $20K minus whatever he spends on healthcare, as money going to the federal government for it to redistribute".

It's all about the redistribution of wealth. It was never about providing health care to everyone.

And therein lies the rub. Now I am coming to understand that element of not having gov't dictate a choice that has always been left up to individuals. A few people thought I was trolling, but with my limited knowledge, I honestly didn't get what the big deal was. I've learned much, and with the atrocious increases, I understand the anger. I would be there too, especially considering the average Canadian household spends only $2000 on health care costs and $4000 on private insurance premiums which cover things such as dental and optical.

But as your neighbors to the north, most of us are just used to our gov't healthcare premiums as a tax that is deducted from our paycheques that we never see. The first province adopted it in 1947, and by 1961 all provinces had a version of it. It is not really an onerous tax per se, and it doesn't come close to funding the health system which is public (gov't run), as they gouge us in other tax rates, and prescription medication is not covered. However, it is something we are just used to, as it is essentially a payroll tax, so we have no real choice.

Just for information sake, here is a portion of the "law" as it were that dictates health coverage in Canada...

Canada Health Act

The Canada Health Act is federal legislation that puts in place conditions by which individual provinces and territories in Canada may receive funding for health care services.

There are five main principles in the Canada Health Act:

Public Administration: All administration of provincial health insurance must be carried out by a public authority on a non-profit basis. They also must be accountable to the province or territory, and their records and accounts are subject to audits.


Comprehensiveness: All necessary health services, including hospitals, physicians and surgical dentists, must be insured.


Universality: All insured residents are entitled to the same level of health care.


Portability: A resident that moves to a different province or territory is still entitled to coverage from their home province during a minimum waiting period. This also applies to residents which leave the country.


Accessibility: All insured persons have reasonable access to health care facilities. In addition, all physicians, hospitals, etc, must be provided reasonable compensation for the services they provide.

Anyhow, thank you all for your responses.

Finally, I see the day soon coming where gov't is so large that it only makes sense to combine our gov'ts under one leader - the beginnings are already happening - and that leader will bring in laws so invasive that we will even have to have a chip of some sort in our hand to even buy a tank of gas. I ain't taking that chip. Many of you will get what I am saying. Have a good one boys.

Respectfully, that's BS.

It was designed to blow up. It couldn't do anything else.

They plugged into it economic realities that, according to the laws of economics, couldn't result in a working system without huge infusions of funds from the Treasury that hadn't been part of the legislation from the start.

One such violation of economic laws was the notion of preexisting conditions being covered. That's like permitting people to wait till their house burned down to purchase fire insurance. In that economic situation, few would purchase fire insurance till their house burned down, which would result in a collapse of the fire insurance market, and that based on principles of human behavior.

Now, it's possible to switch to a national healthcare system where every citizen is entitled to health services paid for out of the general funds, essentially an expansion of Medicare to the entire population, but that would require a huge increase in income taxes, which would likely collapse the market. Then you get into the problems inherent in socialism, i.e., eventually everybody will prefer being in the wagon vs pulling the wagon, at which point the wagon stops moving.

Another thing to consider, once they destroy the private health care system, who is going to develop future medical devices, procedures and drugs?

Those breakthroughs are created by the free market and profits, potentially huge profits.
No incentive, no new breakthroughs.

The world will suffer, not just the United states.

If you're as dense as you apparently are it wouldn't do any good explaining it to you!

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

As a 'Patient' I am not sure that I want my Insurance/Medical Care managed by the same people that manage the VA, or pick your favorite GOV Agnecy ... which doesn't receive Raving Reviews!

With regard to 'Affordable' you don't need to look too far to see that it is NOT an improvement!

For the 'give me my FREE stuff' army, it ain't exactly FREE - so they are mad!

For the 'I'll pay my way' crowd, they're being FORCED to pay the way, or at least help, of others - so they are mad!

It is 'billed' as insurance, which it ain't - Insurance is a contractual purchase of reimbursement against a 'potential' future loss, NOT for an existing loss!

Not to mention the WAY that it became Law!

IMHO.

National Review just publish an article on the Canadian system.

The Pitfalls of Single-Payer Health Care: Canada’s Cautionary Tale

Actually, people with serious medical problems (cancer, heart disease etc.) on average live significantly longer in the US than in Canada. And this was true before Obamacare was passed.

This is primarily because Canada rations care and has much less medical infrastructure (MRI machines for example) per capita than the US. As a result people have to wait longer for care which results in poorer outcomes.

Canada today: My wife fell and injured her hip painfully 8 weeks ago and learned last week that she has to wait till mid-August to get it scanned.

I'm going to arrange for her to get a private MRI, which we will pay for privately, but we have to get a doc to prescribe it.

Again, for emphasis, on the argument of whether getting rid of ObamaCare is humane... ObamaCare could be scrapped IN ITS ENTIRETY today, and not a single American would lose access to emergency health care. The only thing they would lose access to is over priced health care insurance.

Right, and they'd be free to negotiate affordable medical insurance from insurance companies that only cover what they believe is needed, e.g., not drug rehab, psychiatric, pregnancy (even for men), etc..

Getting the IRS involved in policing health insurance compliance is reason enough for me to not like it.

Not to mention the $1,000,000,000,000 (that's a trillion) of tax increases over ten years contained in Obamacare. One of the largest tax increases in history.

Can you imagine how much better off we'd be if that much money was left in the private sector to buy stuff, invest, and grow jobs?

The only good thing about Obamacare is that it got a lot of Democrats kicked out of office.

As you have probably surmised the answer isn't easily determined and there is a lot of emotion and politics involved. Much of this is evident in the answers above where people provide anecdotal evidence where someone they know or maybe even themself have seen their premiums increase substantially yet there is never a true sxs comparison of the plans. Under the old pre aca days there were a lot of fairly cheap plans available but they often would only pay on a 20/80 scale , may have had low lifetime e benefit ceilings and no out of pocket ceiling. These type of plans were popular if you were in good health and did not suffer relative low cost medical needs. However they were often found lacking when one was hit with a large emergency situation a long erm chronic condition or a very expensive disease such as cancer etc. paying a co pay and 20 % of annual medical costs of a few thousand dollars was manageable for many and they never had reason to find out the down side. But like finds out you don't have flood insurance after a hurricane it could likely lurk there.
The cost share feature also created an enviorment where that tricky knee was tolerated because they didn't want to pay the 20 % or we had a lot of peop,e that didn't have insurance so there were a lot of things that went untreated. In come aca and suddenly the inexpensive plans didn't meet the required minimums. Add to this the aca requirements required a lot of coverages that many did not agree with i.e. Abortion coverag,drug treatment etc. it also brought a lot of uninsured with chronic issues such a diabetes dental issues , bum knees under coverage so demand for services exploded. On the other side the medical profession has changed dramatically with a lot of practitioners selling their practice to hospital groups and hence working for a salary . The trick was all of a sudden many Drs that use to work 60-70 hrs per week became 9-5 ers. So as I said there are a lot of issues that aca didn't consider or miss estimated. I for one don't agree that things were better under the old system. However there does need to be some. Changes in the aca to make it work.

No side by side comparisons my ass! As the employer, I get spread sheets every year when it comes time to renew or choose Healthcare packages for my employees and my family. I know EXACTLY what is offered in the various plans, and I have seen what has happened to my premiums in the past 4 years.

I don't have the data to argue this point, and I'll assume you do, but that is admittedly a fairly small slice of medical care.

Were we to go into other statistics, let's say child hood immunization, the US brings up the rear in industrialized countries, significantly worse than Mexico.

Before ACA, I had a great catastrophic plan. It was cheap, it had a 4K deductable and an 8K stop-loss. When I did have a series of serious issues, it paid what I couldn't afford to pay.

One of the problems with the ACA is the required coverage for piddly little stuff. The purpose of insurance is to pay for things your can't plan for and you can't afford. Anyone can plan for vaccinations or annual checkups. Why is it required to include a layer of government and insurance on a predictable, minor expense?

My father had colon cancer at 37. He's 75 now. Under this plan he would have died a horrible death very early in his life.

Didn't read entire thread, but:

If Canada Care is so great, why the steady stream of Canucks across the border into my state to get healthcare for seemingly every problem they ever have?

An easier question to answer would be, "What's right about Obama care"?

Reminds me of going through the Canadian Soo about 20 years ago on a fishing trip. I noticed one of the hospitals had maybe a dozen cars in the lot. When I got where I was going I asked the guide what was the national holiday they were celebrating and told him why I was asking. He told me that it wasn't a national holiday; the health care had temporarily run out of money so they were only treating emergent cases.

I've had my own insurance ever since I was 18 years old and car insurance since I was 16 years old. I don't think anyone owes me either one so I always made sure I had a job and could pay my way. Besides, we're just not big on oppressive government down here....

Bottom line for me.

My premium doubled from one year to the next.
My deductible went from $500 a year to $3000 a year.
Generic prescriptions went from $6 to $26. Non-generic, and sometimes there is no generic, I will pay full price.
There were no other choices my company could offer for less money.
Health Savings Plan is necessary now.

I hate it.
33 Million people didn't have health insurance. If they had given me $30 million I'd had insured them all for life and retired filthy rich.
Nope, everyone has to share the burden of billions of dollars every year. Makes as much sense taking the highest bid on all contracts. Yep! I want to pay more, it's good for us.

As an aside I'm sure no one will read, My Brother's mother in law was driven by her son from Canada to Detroit or there abouts because she sat in a clinic for 4 hours while Canadian Health Officials discussed whether or not she was really sick.
The US hospital had her in an OR getting a stent within 20 minutes of arriving. Great system Canada, lets let an administrator decide if I'm sick.

$1200/mo premium. $7000 deductible, max o.o.p. $28000. Tell me how this is affordable. What's the point of insurance at this cost?

Anybody who thinks obammy care is affordable and great needs to be committed to a psych ward.

Bankrupting of America thanks to the ACA

The filthy piece of [bleep] son of a bitch that it was named after. Deceitful, lying, sorry assed piece of [bleep]!

g

My secretary, for example, would need to pay her take home pay (after tax amount) for 2 weeks to purchase health care, each month.
And she makes well over minimum wage. What about the low pay-scale workers? Are they working strictly for health-care?
That seems to be the operational result of O-care.
Rent, food, lights don't matter.

To the OP look at mutual funds that specialize in Healthcare. They have shot up tremendously since the implementation of this BS.

Here are the problems


Forcing People to buy healthcare and pay for coverage they don't want or need
T ax sucking tentacles throughout other programs that affect mainly the middle class
Passed without any input from the Public

That is for starters. If you are happy paying 1/2 your salary to subsidize your lousy healthcare system then go for it. Keep your citizens on your side of your border and don't send them here for care and drive up our costs anymore.

As I mentioned there is a lot of misunderstanding about aca. But for 2017 the max out of pockets are $7150single and $14,300 for family plans. This does not include premiums. After these amounts are reached subsidies are triggered in the form of tax concessions . Some of the confusion and problems are you may have to pay more at the time of the event and wait until you file to claim the subsidies. There are legitimate concerns and issues that did increase medical use and costs such as drug treatment, abortion and mental illness. There were also a lot of untreated marginal illness such as untreated diabetes, like I said bum knees, chronic back pain that were untreated because people didn't have coverage. Now that they have insurance why not. A couple of other facts that I recently read about were quite a surprise . Administrative costs of our complicated system account for30% of total health care costs. Tort reform that is flogged as the big answer isn't really a big factor . Malpractice insurance premiums are less than1% of total health care cost in the US. The figures I read stated. Premiums were about 12 Billion annually the surprise was that claims awards were only about 30% of that with the rest retained by the insurance companies.

And the cost of the three extra tests your doctor has you take (and pay for) because even with malpractice insurance, he can't afford to be seen as negligent? They don't cost anything?

Defensive medicine is expensive.

That isn't right either. The three extra tests your doctor has you take is so the hospital an make money off of that CT and MRI machine and/or use that lab to generate profits.

It makes sense if you think of the lab and all those machines like you do the service department of an automobile dealership. Putting all that stuff in costs money and they can't justify keeping it around if it doesn't make money. And none of that stuff will make money if they don't use it every chance they have.

All this stuff is really basic but for some reason people turn off their brains when thinking about healthcare and don't see it and think about it the way they do other businesses. Doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies are all there to make money and everything they do should be understood in that light. Even nonprofits generally have to cover their operating expenses.

You are wrong!
My girlfriend had surgery under Obama care and her out of pocket was $12,000 not including premiums.
They had a little known or publicized thing called co-insurance, the deductible on that was $6,000 plus the regular deductible of $6,000.

Quit drinking the kool-aid and spreading the lies!!

Irfubar the deductible and co insurance are both include LE as part of out of pocket rules. You can google out of pocket maximum under aca and read it yourself. If I was your girlfriend I would question the provider until they explained why she didn't max out. There are exceptions, some older plans were grandfathered in with their old out of pocket calculations another is if she went out of network, but it might be worth it to her to make sure. It isn't unheard of for insurance companies to make errors intentionally or unintentionally if you don't ask questions. Just my experiences.

Bangeye,

My girl friend is an R.N. who specializes in case management.

Trust me she knows.
I am telling you what is real, not something we read.

Since this happened to her I have heard many references from people stating the same.

They are lying to you, wise up.

This probably sums it up as well as any.

We will drop 23K on health insurance this year, that's more than what we pay the mortgage co for our home.

Medical costs are out of control, because of third party paying.

As rush says ~ Everyone has to eat. We could bankrupt the country even faster with restaurant insurance.~


Half of America cannot cover a $500 expense.

So Americans need to save money and check medical prices.
Obama care is the opposite of that.

Re: Can I ask an honest question: What was wrong with Obamacare?

It didn't address the problem with medical care in the US.

But it sure lined the pockets of the health insurance companies and made Dr's think about alternate careers.

When I was working I had a regular basis electrician. One day he came with a new employee. I asked about him. He told me he was his son who was a medical doctor who gave up his practice because of Ocare. Said there was just too much hassle.

Is that why most all had to drop it? They were getting too rich?

We had this fund for a while and got out of it a few months ago