It has been argued that using a rifle scope is perfectly safe and OK for scanning/glassing for game, rather than using binoculars. One excuse I've heard is that even though the rifle is loaded, it has an open bolt so it is ok.
Do you consider it safe to use a rifle scope, on a loaded rifle, instead of binoculars or a spotting scope when glassing for game animals?
It is a really bad feeling to be in somebody's crosshairs. Where the scope is pointing is where the bullet is going. Never point a gun at anything you do not intend to shoot.
I'm serious. I posed this on another forum and was stunned at some of the answers I got. I consider this forum full of experienced outdoorsmen and hunters. I'm hoping to hear from as many of you as possible. Thanks in advance.
If i see a BUCK in shooting range, I will hit it with a scope before grabbing binocs. I've seen a few corkers get away from folks who ended up too slow in dropping the binos to grab the gun.
With my experience, i would not be too concerned with scoping things out with the optics on a gun. I wouldnt be too concerned with seeing someone on a Texas deer lease sweeping me with a scope and have experienced this before without undue concern.
Now, wearing orange in Co and seeing a puke holding on me across a wide draw would elicit a completely differnt set of emotions, not knowing if the fugger was a jello, leroy or lostinahighway creep.
I didn't buy 3k dollar binoculars to glass with a scope. I'm with Jag, I've used one for a quick glance, before it could be too late..I wouldn't glass people with an unloaded rifle.
I didn't buy 3k dollar binoculars to glass with a scope. I'm with Jag, I've used one for a quick glance, before it could be too late..I wouldn't glass people with an unloaded rifle.
I don't buy 3K binoculars either. . Mine are more like $300. Or less.
That said, ditto. I'll scope already identified game if marginal for using glasses first, then taking the shot, but glassing is for glasses.
If I ever see anyone scoping me, I'm liable to hit the ground and shoot back first, holding just a little wide.
With my experience, i would not be too concerned with scoping things out with the optics on a gun. I wouldnt be too concerned with seeing someone on a Texas deer lease sweeping me with a scope and have experienced this before without undue concern.
Now, wearing orange in Co and seeing a puke holding on me across a wide draw would elicit a completely differnt set of emotions, not knowing if the fugger was a jello, leroy or lostinahighway creep.
So you're OK with someone pointing their rifle at you, as long as you're in Texas.
It has been argued that using a rifle scope is perfectly safe and OK for scanning/glassing for game, rather than using binoculars.
People should never sweep their guide or PH or other hunters in the group with the muzzle, people who are guilty of that are likely now telling others not to glass in the distance with the rifle scope....chuckle.
I use the rifle scope to glass game on vast tracts of remote area private property...If someone ends up in my lense its their problem because they are trespassing.
If they are on a paid hunting lease i figure the are after horny bucks, not hunters. I meet folkx from mexico, africa, and dope run colleges every day on the hwy who are a lot more dangerous than a paying hunter in a welfare paid F250 travelling past a few feet away at a 150 mph differential. Can you not keep your finger off the trigger and the rifle on safe scanning a ridge 600 yds away
All i would ask of a greenhorn doing the same is that if he decides to pull the trigger is that he tries really hard to aim at me.
A rifle scope is for directing the bullet NOT for identifying game or people. Years ago I bit the bullet and spent the money for a pair of Swarovski binoculars, I wouldn't go hunting without them.
People should never sweep their guide or PH or other hunters in the group with the muzzle, people who are guilty of that are likely now telling others not to glass in the distance with the rifle scope....chuckle.
I use the rifle scope to glass game on vast tracts of remote area private property...If someone ends up in my lense its their problem because they are trespassing.
People who are libs who suck cock like you should choke on it and die. This means you, starman.
I notice hypocrite christian JagX is immersed in his obsessive homosexual thoughts again.
Originally Posted by MadMooner
Pointing guns at random things is generally a bad idea. Loaded ones even more so.
I wonder how many people dry fire and/or shoulder a rifle to look through the scope in the home den or back shed.. all while the muzzle is pointed at something they don't intend to shoot.
It has been argued that using a rifle scope is perfectly safe and OK for scanning/glassing for game, rather than using binoculars.
People should never sweep their guide or PH or other hunters in the group with the muzzle, people who are guilty of that are likely now telling others not to glass in the distance with the rifle scope....chuckle.
I use the rifle scope to glass game on vast tracts of remote area private property...If someone ends up in my lense its their problem because they are trespassing.
I notice hypocrite christian JagX is immersed in his obsessive homosexual thoughts again.
Originally Posted by MadMooner
Pointing guns at random things is generally a bad idea. Loaded ones even more so.
I wonder how many people dry fire and/or shoulder a rifle to look through the scope in the home den or back shed.. all while the muzzle is pointed art something they don't intend to shoot.
I wonder how many people dry fire and/or shoulder a rifle to look through the scope in the home den or back shed.. all while the muzzle is pointed art something they don't intend to shoot.
Those are the stupid people you just mentioned!
Question,...do you think the majority of people with snap-caps for their pistols and shotguns dry fire at home or only at the safety of a designated range?
I have no doubt that there are those who say 'don't glass with the scope'..but will point and dry-fire firearms at home, and in all likelihood have also swept people with the muzzle while hunting.
interesting that a person deemed as an armed trespasser of private lands would call me an ass for pointing a gun at him.....then as the trespasser decide to open fire.
A for sure no no in Oregon's text and a test question as well. We teach one that they "never" point a firearm at anything they do not intend to shoot regardless of the firearms assumed state.
I use the rifle scope to glass game on vast tracts of remote area private property...If someone ends up in my lense its their problem because they are trespassing.
If I were trespassing on private property and I scoped someone that was scoping me ...
It has been argued that using a rifle scope is perfectly safe and OK for scanning/glassing for game, rather than using binoculars.
People should never sweep their guide or PH or other hunters in the group with the muzzle, people who are guilty of that are likely now telling others not to glass in the distance with the rifle scope....chuckle.
I also step on the gas when the light changes without looking...If someone ends up in the crosswalk its their problem because they are crossing when it says "Don't Walk".
Witnessed one of the worst azz chewing I've ever seen a grown man take over this very subject
We were taking a group of hunters out caribou hunting and one of the guys for whatever reason decided to take a look at his buddies backs through his rifle scope
The top hand in our outfit went ballistic, I almost felt sorry for the guy, almost
'Twasnt pretty, he paid a pretty fair bill to come up and get his azz chewed
Imo binocs are for spotting, glass on a rifle is for killing
Never is the right time to use a scope to glass. Besides the good sense safety reasons, it is awkward and doesn't work very well to look for game with a rifle mounted scope. Putting the scope on an already identified animal to verify antler points, choose the correct animal, etc. before shooting is also good sense.
I'm serious. I posed this on another forum and was stunned at some of the answers I got. I consider this forum full of experienced outdoorsmen and hunters. I'm hoping to hear from as many of you as possible. Thanks in advance.
JG,
are you keeping track? In order to post the results on the other forum?
Another vote for No, Binocular first.
Short range- able to ID animal as right species and sex, then possible, slightly possible, just to make sure of legal requirements, but if I'm undetected and can use binocular first, then that's the thing to do.
I hate being "scoped" and like others have said, I have a tendency to look at that as a threat. If the object is far enough away I can't ID it without an optic of some sort, it's likely far enough away to use my binoc. and be able to remain undetected.
It has been argued that using a rifle scope is perfectly safe and OK for scanning/glassing for game, rather than using binoculars. One excuse I've heard is that even though the rifle is loaded, it has an open bolt so it is ok.
Do you consider it safe to use a rifle scope, on a loaded rifle, instead of binoculars or a spotting scope when glassing for game animals?
Why or why not?
1. Treat every gun as though it is loaded.
2. Don't point your gun at anything you don't plan to shoot.
I got glassed once, and I've probably still got an imprint in the ground on that ridgetop in Pennsylvania from eating dirt as fast as I did. How someone can glass you, thinking you're a deer when you're sitting there with your back against a tree wearing blaze orange top and bottom, blaze orange gloves, and a blaze orange hat is beyond me.
Scopes are for killing stuff, binoculars, monoculars, and spotting scopes are for finding game.
I never "scan" with a scope, but I will frequently will put the scope on an animal I am considering shooting. I have watched deer for well over an hour on multiple occasions either waiting for them to turn to just the right position or just to decide if it looks tasty enough to shoot. Probably the latter has been most common for me since I shoot strictly for my table. Where I hunt, there have been way more deer than is reasonable for the better part of 20 years, so I get to pick and choose. This results in looking very closely for identifying characteristics so I can quickly decide I have seen and passed on this one before.
I regularly look at the antlers of bucks before shooting them. Not glassing to figure out if they are a deer, just making sure that it is legal. 3 pt rule here, and I shoot a lot of deer that I want out of the herd. If I decide that I do not want the deer, I might get my binoculars and watch it for a while. All "just looking" gets the use of binoculars. I do see a lot of people going hunting without binoculars but not on my place. miles
One of the best ass kicking's I've ever seen was delivered by one of my hunting partner's who had a rife pointed at him by a dipshite 2 separate times in the same day! Losing buddies to a sniper in Korea had made him quite sensitive about that..
It has been argued that using a rifle scope is perfectly safe and OK for scanning/glassing for game, rather than using binoculars. One excuse I've heard is that even though the rifle is loaded, it has an open bolt so it is ok.
Do you consider it safe to use a rifle scope, on a loaded rifle, instead of binoculars or a spotting scope when glassing for game animals?
Why or why not?
Binos or a spotting scope are always preferred.
No crosshairs to look through, Binos give you 2 eyes, spotter and binos will generally give a wider field of vision, and you can't have an "accident" with binos or a spotter.
Can you not keep your finger off the trigger and the rifle on safe scanning a ridge 600 yds away
Sure I can. But are you saying it's alright to point your rifle at someone as long as you keep your finger off the trigger and keep the rifle on "safe?"
Steelhead said it, it's a shame to have to repeat it. Muzzle control is the #1 rule; literally and figuratively. It's not an accident that it's at the top of the list. Because you can violate every other rule and even pull the trigger but if the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction nobody gets hurt.
Can you not keep your finger off the trigger and the rifle on safe scanning a ridge 600 yds away
Sure I can. But are you saying it's alright to point your rifle at someone as long as you keep your finger off the trigger and keep the rifle on "safe?"
Steelhead said it, it's a shame to have to repeat it. Muzzle control is the #1 rule; literally and figuratively. It's not an accident that it's at the top of the list. Because you can violate every other rule and even pull the trigger but if the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction nobody gets hurt.
Sorry smokepole. You are correct. I should have said "public land". That said, I use 8 and 15x Zeiss binos.
As a poor kid i did on occassion scan a ridge or pasture at times with the Weavrr 22 scope on my break open ss Savage for deer or turkey.
I consider scoping someone out with a rifle a different proposition. Had it happen to me once. I got behind an oak trunk and scoped them back. They got the message.
There's some good, and some bad comments in this thread...
Common sense needs to prevail though.
There are some people that I would never question if they picked up a scoped rifle to make a determination on an animal before shooting it, (or not shooting it).
And then there are those people I wouldn't want to be any closer than 5 miles from if they even had a rifle in their hands.
Personally, I never point a weapon at anything that I'm not 100% sure I could live with killing. Doesn't mean I will kill it... It just means I know what it is with certainty beforehand.
There are some people that I would never question if they picked up a scoped rifle to make a determination on an animal before shooting it, (or not shooting it).
There's a huge difference between pointing your rifle at an animal you've already seen and have a tag for vs. "scanning" or looking for game.
I appreciate the responses, and keep them coming. The link below will help explain why I was so curious what you guys think (except for that repugnant dolt starman).
When responding, keep in mind I'm not talking about picking up your scoped rifle to "size up" a buck after you've already seen him with your naked eye or binocs. I'm talking about randomly picking up your LOADED,scoped rifle when you decide to scan across the ground you're hunting for game instead of doing the job with binoculars.
The rules of firearm safety are irrefutable and absolute, not situational. Anyone who argues otherwise proves themselves unqualified to opine. For starfish, I dryfire several times / week and POA is my safe or my brick fireplace, it is not that hard to think these things through when you actually do things rather than talk crap.
There are some people that I would never question if they picked up a scoped rifle to make a determination on an animal before shooting it, (or not shooting it).
There's a huge difference between pointing your rifle at an animal you've already seen and have a tag for vs. "scanning" or looking for game.
Indeed there is.
If someone is just glassing with a loaded rifle, they need to have their hunting privileges revoked.
I've seen many people (myself included) who must set out intending to shoot the sky (or some distant object on a given trajectory) or the Earth somewhere in front of, to the side, or behind them.
Personally, I never point a weapon at anything that I'm not 100% sure I could live with killing. Doesn't mean I will kill it... It just means I know what it is with certainty beforehand.
I appreciate the responses, and keep them coming. The link below will help explain why I was so curious what you guys think (except for that repugnant dolt starman).
When responding, keep in mind I'm not talking about picking up your scoped rifle to "size up" a buck after you've already seen him with your naked eye or binocs. I'm talking about randomly picking up your LOADED,scoped rifle when you decide to scan across the ground you're hunting for game instead of doing the job with binoculars.
HOLY SCHIT !!!
The responses on that forum put the Freak Show to shame. This is one of the better ones.
"If glassing for animals is the same as seeing a sounder pulling up my rifle and picking out which one is the alpha female with my rifle scope then yes I am OK with aiming my rifle at the other pigs in the sounder that I dont intend to shoot first or at all. No Problem!!! "
Saw this exact thing done on one of the Reality shows within the last week or two[Yukon Men maybe]. Was shocked that no one had the foresight to at least edit it out. Guessing I shouldn't be.
I didn't buy 3k dollar binoculars to glass with a scope. I'm with Jag, I've used one for a quick glance, before it could be too late..I wouldn't glass people with an unloaded rifle.
I don't buy 3K binoculars either. . Mine are more like $300. Or less.
That said, ditto. I'll scope already identified game if marginal for using glasses first, then taking the shot, but glassing is for glasses.
If I ever see anyone scoping me, I'm liable to hit the ground and shoot back first, holding just a little wide.
Agreed. How the heck would I know your bolt is open, when you are some unknown guy aiming a rifle at me? You are an immediate threat to my safety.. Edit: I would not shoot first unless I had some reason to think he was trying to kill me, not just stupid.
Do you consider it safe to use a rifle scope, on a loaded rifle, instead of binoculars or a spotting scope when glassing for game animals?
Depends ... "ish." I will look at an animal that I've already identified as one I'd be willing to kill with the scope as I make the final decision whether to kill it or not. I will not use the scope to "glass" to locate something to shoot at. In other words, I'm not using the scope to scan the terrain or even to decide if something I've seen is a legal critter or not, but I will make the final choice about pulling the trigger on something I've determined to be legal to kill through the scope.
It has been argued that using a rifle scope is perfectly safe and OK for scanning/glassing for game, rather than using binoculars. One excuse I've heard is that even though the rifle is loaded, it has an open bolt so it is ok.
Do you consider it safe to use a rifle scope, on a loaded rifle, instead of binoculars or a spotting scope when glassing for game animals?
Why or why not?
So long as you have no problem with me looking back at you with a round in the chamber we will get along just fine.
I wonder how many people dry fire and/or shoulder a rifle to look through the scope in the home den or back shed.. all while the muzzle is pointed art something they don't intend to shoot.
Those are the stupid people you just mentioned!
Question,...do you think the majority of people with snap-caps for their pistols and shotguns dry fire at home or only at the safety of a designated range?
I have no doubt that there are those who say 'don't glass with the scope'..but will point and dry-fire firearms at home, and in all likelihood have also swept people with the muzzle while hunting.
Sorry, acting like this is a measure of stupidity and irresponsibility, is well, stupid.
Everyday I jump in my truck and back out the driveway and head down the road. That truck has the possibility of creating 10's of thousands in damage as well as death. But I have eyes, legs, and arms to control the throttle, brake, and steering to avoid that. But the truck has several things beyond my control....what if the brakes fail, the steering column breaks, or the throttle sticks? I have no real control over failure, yet I drive it everyday.
A gun on the other hand I can control it's potential for damage. If I have cleared the action and verified it is empty several times the moment before I close the action and point it at a wall and dry fire it, then it CANNOT harm anyone or anything, ever. It's impossible. Do you sit at a 4 way stop sign all day with your wife and kids in the car? Or after you have checked both ways and verified nothing is coming, do you proceed through the intersection????? Simple question isn't it??
I'm safety conscious all the time with all things firearms. When reloading I will read out loud the powder brand and number I'm looking at in the book, then the powder can I'm holding in my hand, then the book again. Only the powder I'm using is ever out on the bench.
If I cannot trust what my arms and hands have just done with the action on a firearm, and what my eyes have verified more than once, then I shouldn't own a gun period, and for the love of God should never carry a gun out hunting. And even worse I should most certainly never ever crawl in a vehicle and head down the road.
Intentionally pointing the muzzle at a person, or even in the direction of a person is a whole other issue.
Nope. Had it done to me once and it's not a good feeling. I was sitting against a tree watching a spike bull elk who was drinking from a small stream about about ten yards from me when I heard two idiots sitting on the top of a ridge I had been keeping an eye on start chattering. Sure enough they both started glassing him with their rifles and from their angle I was right behind him. I ended up yelling and scaring him off before I got shot (spikes weren't even legal but I didn't like a rifle being pointed in my direction) and the dumbazzes were pizzed and started screaming why did I scare off their elk. Public land near Craig, CO...they weren't the only idiots I ran into...never again.
It has been argued that using a rifle scope is perfectly safe and OK for scanning/glassing for game, rather than using binoculars. One excuse I've heard is that even though the rifle is loaded, it has an open bolt so it is ok.
Do you consider it safe to use a rifle scope, on a loaded rifle, instead of binoculars or a spotting scope when glassing for game animals?
Why or why not?
So long as you have no problem with me looking back at you with a round in the chamber we will get along just fine.
I finally solved this little problem by strapping my binos to the top of my scope. So now I don't ever have to use the scope to scan for anything anymore.
Take 450 hunters as clients in your life, then judge them using an Average for skills they have.
Guaranteed you will see this as I do. Never point a gun at a thing you don't intend to shoot period.
The safety of guns is so casual and taken for granted by a majority is very scary to me. I've been asked countless times what scares me more brown Bears or lions having been a PH or guide for both.
My simple answer to this is neither, it's the guy with the gun behind or next to me every single time.
My binoculars are just as important to me while hunting as my rifle is. Why would anyone scan using a "monocular" rifle scope? Dang, spend a few dollars, buy some binos, and see what you have been missing! And if you already have binos, why the heck are you scanning with your rifle scope?
I'd not use my rifle scope just to scan terrain. But if I see a game animal where there is a good possibility of taking a shot right now I'm not going to waste time checking it out with my binoculars. Very often you have seconds to make a decision. I'll use the scope on my rifle first. If I decide to pass, or feel it needs a better look then I'd go to the binoculars.
It seems there are many here who seem to think you ask, "Does it bother you if someone points a rifle at you?" I don't scan with a rifle scope. I asked a guy I used to work with this question. "That's what they're for," he informed. He didn't have binoculars.
If you are scanning me with a scope, you best prepare for incoming rounds!
So you would actually fire on someone for that? What other excuse would you use for shooting someone?people who don't know better are dangerous, but it seems some who do know better are worse.
You have far more experience guiding than I do but in the outfit I worked for the camps I was in it normally fell to me to deliver the "safety lecture" on changeover days
I explained to our clients that some of them had been hunting and handling firearms longer than I had, that our rules were no reflection upon their skills or abilities. Many of them no doubt were proponents of a hot chamber from hunting back east in thick timber. Add to that we're hunting in a bear rich environment and the heightened sense of awareness of our place on the food chain hunting in proximity to bears. I'm sure many of them were uncomfortable with our policy, but I had to explain it was strictly enforced by our outfitter
After the scopin incident we added that part to the safety seminar
Never a good idea to use a rifle scope to "glass". You have no idea what your rifle is going to be pointed at. Blows the muzzle control rule!
I have been viewed through a rifle scope and it is very unnerving. He wasn't just scanning, he was watching me through his scope. I was dragging a dead hog down a road and had an orange vest on. He was hunting the road. The guy was too young to be hunting by himself and I took the opportunity to give him an education.
interesting that a person deemed as an armed trespasser of private lands would call me an ass for pointing a gun at him.....then as the trespasser decide to open fire.
I concede you have an arguable point from your skewed perspective. Up here, much Native land abuts public land, with no fences, boundary markers, or postings. It is a line drawn on a map somewhere, possibly not even surveyed. One tree or tundra tussock looks a whole lot like another. Winter snow machine and ATV trails between villages and other points of interest cross many such parcels. It IS the responsibility of the hunter to not trespass if anyone cares (although the law does not spell out just how one is to determine that from the conditions existing), which some do and some do not. It is quite easy to unknowingly get unto private property while hunting public lands. Or get into National Park, while hunting adjacent public land. Ask Jeff King.
They will let you know if you do without pointing a scoped rifle at you. Or an un-scoped one. If they care. Everyone except SOME National Park Service Rangers, anyway, who like pulling their guns....
It is clear why no one will hunt within rifle range of you, and they have to stick you out there in that "remote" country all by yourself.
I have been following your posts since you started, and have a broad base for my opinion of your ass-i-tude, not just this single issue.
I myself can and often am an ass. Doesn't mean I cannot recognize it in myself and others.
I finally solved this little problem by strapping my binos to the top of my scope. So now I don't ever have to use the scope to scan for anything anymore.
Dude. Go all in and strap your spotlight up there too. Works great during a new moon.
If you are scanning me with a scope, you best prepare for incoming rounds!
So you would actually fire on someone for that? What other excuse would you use for shooting someone?people who don't know better are dangerous, but it seems some who do know better are worse.
This^^^^. I've seen many times that others inadvertently let their muzzle sweep across another person in a group hunting doves, ducks, quail, rabbits, coyotes etc around blinds or getting in and out of vehicles, and im talking about so called safe, seasoned hunters who at times have a lapse in what to me is the main cause of accidental shootings.
Muzzle direction at close range is the ultimate real safety.
If I have already identified the game with the naked eye, I certainly don't mind checking it out further with a rifle scope, as I know how fleeting that opportunity may be. I do not, however, scan the landscape with a rifle scope; that's what binoculars and spotting scopes are for.
I have been looked over through a rifle scope and it really is unnerving because it is impossible to know the intentions of the operator. It is unmistakable, though, that someone is pointing a gun at you. And, unlike the inadvertent swinging of a shotgun muzzle past a fellow hunter, using a rifle scope like that is a deliberate act.
This thread should quickly morph into a hot chamber vs. cold chamber thread.
Then we'll have fun!
OK, I'll start.
I won't use my scope to glass with, I carry with a hot chamber and it just wouldn't be safe to point a loaded gun at someone. Well, I guess it might be OK to glass a trespasser with a hot chamber, he just might actually get what he deserves.
NO. I own land that the G&F leases for habitat and public access. I've also had hunters glass me with their scopes. It's not a good feeling, and I confront them and spread the joy. I had one swing his rifle off his shoulder to show me how his bolt had been open when he glassed me, and found a 1911 in my hand. they found somewhere else to hunt. when I mentioned this to other landowners, I was told they had been similarly glassed.
I wouldn't point a rifle barrel at anyone out of 1)safety 2)curtousy. Even if my rifle had the barrel welded shut and the bolt glued open I would not use my scope for scanning the surroundings. What kind of HA (Horses's Ass) would feel differently I cant recon. Don't point your guns at people, that simple(unless people you plan to kill). Amazing that we are talking about this 5 pages in.
It has been argued that using a rifle scope is perfectly safe and OK for scanning/glassing for game, rather than using binoculars. One excuse I've heard is that even though the rifle is loaded, it has an open bolt so it is ok.
Do you consider it safe to use a rifle scope, on a loaded rifle, instead of binoculars or a spotting scope when glassing for game animals?
Why or why not?
No,I don't point my rifle around looking for game or pointing it toward a sound. If I see a deer or a group of deer at a distance,I may very well look at them with my scope before deciding to shoot.
I don't really understand where this thread has gone with everyone talking about someone pointing a rifle at them. Where I hunt I've never even carried binoculars. You can rarely find a place to see for 300 yards and I can see well enough with my eyes to tell if it's a deer or a man. I'm not going to point my rifle scope at anything I can't identify.
Binocs aren't just for long open distances, lower power binocs in timber give you a decided advantage, again ime
You've might have killed more game than I've seen ( though I did see a herd of 10k caribou once)
I'm not telling, just suggesting get a decent 6-8x binocs and look through the woods with it carefully before you move, might be some surprises in store for you
I used to see three reasons for using one's rifle-mounted scope for general glassing. Stupidity, ignorance, and negligence.
But Sharman educated me on the importance of arrogance when defending one's royal acres.
I stand corrected. My apologies to all.
All who glass for game with a rifle scope attached to the rifle likely use a quality wood chisel or hunting knife to open paint cans and such.. (I use a cheap, chipped chisel myself. Damned screws/nails! .
Positive reasons not to glass with a scope:
1. Safety - for both - some people object to having firearms needlessly pointed at them - for any "reason". 2. Binoculars weigh 30 ounces? - a scoped rifle weighs 7-10 lbs, depending. 3. When in use, balance point of binoculars is maybe 3 inches in front of nose - for the rifle - maybe 20 inches. Figure what that, and #2 will do for steady hold for fine examination, checking out movement, or looking for a line or color out of place. Of course, if they are wearing safety orange, anything will work. 4. field of view. 5. light gathering
i see stuff better with my 20 year old, $160 Cabela's Pine Ridge binoculars than I can with my $350 Leupold scope. (yes- I did check!)nBut I did up the grade somewhat on the binoculars I gave my non-hunting son for Christmas. He has a lot more years of use ahead of him than I do... and I can only eat so much game....
I will admit I have no experience with the really high end stuff.
Perhaps one day I will mug one of you guys for your chit......
Let's see-
$3,000 binocs $1500 spotting scope (low end) $5,000 rifle and scope $800 range finder (or is that in the binocs?) $75 flashlight $300 wool shirt etc.
Any of you guys wear Rolex watches? Preferably with Black Hills Gold watchband. My wife loves that stuff.
It is quite easy to unknowingly get unto private property while hunting public lands. Or get into National Park, while hunting adjacent public land.
A person with the correct ground charts/mapping skills and todays 21st century GPS technology should know where there are...I can do the same on the ground as in the air when coming into controlled airspace or near restricted/no-go military air base zones..I don't cross invisible boundries on the ground or in the air(both horizontal & vertical) unless given clearance or permission to do so. Even with accurate charts and GPS, one still finds it wise to plot a course or track incorporating a a personal buffer zone that you decide you won't breach set some distance prior to any official boundaries.
Im not really interested in peoples excuses for breaching areas they as an adult have a legal responsiblity not to enter or be in.
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It is clear why no one will hunt within rifle range of you, and they have to stick you out there in that "remote" country all by yourself.
LOL, people do hunt with me and my rules are different then, but at times I hunt alone on exclusive access remote wilderness, (which is my choice) where I am am free to hunt and handle my rifle how I like and point my scope at distant terrain features or game as I like, within property bounds. Amazing how some others are concerned with what I do in complete solitude on private lands that have nothing at all to do with them.
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They will let you know if you do without pointing a scoped rifle at you. Or an un-scoped one. If they care. Everyone except SOME National Park Service Rangers, anyway, who like pulling their guns....
I do not go glassing for people and never said I have, BUT as said earlier, if I am glassing at game with the scope occasionally and briefly as I do, any person who gets swept with my rifle scope on exclusive use private lands is trespassing. People interested in their own safety and well being need to make it their own personal responsibility to best ensure they do not illegally and carelessly stray into private areas they don't belong with a firearm.
In over 40yrs I have never come across a person in my scope when periodically glassing at game, probably because I go where most people don't go, and where they really shouldn't find themselves when I am there.
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I have been following your posts since you started,
I don't have time or your weird inclination to follow people around on amateur gas bag hunting forums. but just along as you don't follow other peoples children into the toilets or beat up on your partner or drink drive, then knock yourself out, each to his own I say.
It is quite easy to unknowingly get unto private property while hunting public lands. Or get into National Park, while hunting adjacent public land.
A person with the correct ground charts/mapping skills and todays 21st century GPS technology should know where there are...I can do the same on the ground as in the air when coming into controlled airspace or near restricted/no-go military air base zones..I don't cross invisible boundries on the ground or in the air(both horizontal & vertical) unless given clearance or permission to do so. Even with accurate charts and GPS, one still finds it wise to plot a course or track incorporating a a personal buffer zone that you decide you won't breach set some distance prior to any official boundaries.
Im not really interested in peoples excuses for breaching areas they as an adult have a legal responsiblity not to enter or be in.
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It is clear why no one will hunt within rifle range of you, and they have to stick you out there in that "remote" country all by yourself.
LOL, people do hunt with me and my rules are different then, but at times I hunt alone on exclusive access remote wilderness, (which is my choice) where I am am free to hunt and handle my rifle how I like and point my scope at distant terrain features or game as I like, within property bounds. Amazing how some others are concerned with what I do in complete solitude on private lands that have nothing at all to do with them.
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They will let you know if you do without pointing a scoped rifle at you. Or an un-scoped one. If they care. Everyone except SOME National Park Service Rangers, anyway, who like pulling their guns....
I do not go glassing for people and never said I have, BUT as said earlier, if I am glassing at game with the scope occasionally and briefly as I do, any person who gets swept with my rifle scope on exclusive use private lands is trespassing. People interested in their own safety and well being need to make it their own personal responsibility to best ensure they do not illegally and carelessly stray into private areas they don't belong with a firearm.
In over 40yrs I have never come across a person in my scope when periodically glassing at game, probably because I go where most people don't go, and where they really shouldn't find themselves when I am there.
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I have been following your posts since you started,
I don't have time or your weird inclination to follow people around on amateur gas bag hunting forums. but just along as you don't follow other peoples children into the toilets or beat up on your partner or drink drive, then knock yourself out, each to his own I say.
There are a few basic Cardinal Rules relative to safely handling any firearm. If you violate any of these rules, it is unsafe. These two particular Cardinal Rules would apply, it seems to me, in reference to the OP's question. So no, you cannot safely use your rifle scope to "glass for game" without violating the second cardinal rule listed below, "if" you happen to mistake a human for an animal. Plus, you are setting an unsafe example for anyone who sees you doing it, because if they respect you as a safe and experienced hunter, they will be encouraged to do as you do, and on, and on, and on . . . that bad habit will be passed to others.
1. Handle every gun as if it was loaded 2. Never point the business end of a gun at anything you do not intend to shoot and kill
As a whitetail hunter who hunts with a scope. I follow a basic pattern:
1) If I'm looking at something (maybe a deer) the binos come up. 2) If I'm looking at a deer and trying to decide if I'm going to shoot it, the rifle comes up. 3) If I think I see orange, the rifle never comes up.
BTW: I want to register a change in my vote on the cold/hot chamber issue. When Iast I weighed in, I still had Yutes with me. My kids grew up with a cold chamber. Now that they're grown and I'm all alone in the stand, I have begun hunting again with a hot chamber when I'm stationary. When I am out walking, I still carry cold.
Hell no it isn't safe; first rule of gun safety is muzzle control. By definition you can't know what you're gonna point at as you scan.
I kicked a dude out of my deer camp for this practice and will do so all day long.
I carry binoculars even tho I'd struggle to find a place where I could get a 100 yd shot where I hunt. It's amazing how much game you can sight well before they see you, allowing an easier set up for the shot even in tight quarters. They're great for bird watching too.
No,I don't point my rifle around looking for game or pointing it toward a sound. If I see a deer or a group of deer at a distance,I may very well look at them with my scope before deciding to shoot.
I don't really understand where this thread has gone with everyone talking about someone pointing a rifle at them. Where I hunt I've never even carried binoculars. You can rarely find a place to see for 300 yards and I can see well enough with my eyes to tell if it's a deer or a man. I'm not going to point my rifle scope at anything I can't identify.
That's a curious comment about not carrying binoculars because you can't see 300 yards. We hunt very differently. Most of my binocular use is inside of 100 yards, and the majority of that less than 50 yards, though I glass some big country with them at times. I enjoy hunting forest, whether slipping along still hunting or on impromptu calling stands. My first awareness of game has been a deer leg or ear a few yards away, two square inches of elk hair at 12 yards, the rump of a bedded deer at 60 yards, a bear ear at 15 feet, etc.
I have had someone look at me through a scope on public land. Really scary. Both of us were standing in the open beside our vehicles on ridge tops 250 yards apart, so he knew that I was a man before he looked.
Early one morning with time to kill I borrowed Jeb's rifle and sat on the hill I saw a lone rider crossing the plain I drew a bead on him to practice my aim My brother's rifle went off in my hand A shot rang out across the land The horse he kept running, the rider was dead I hung my head, I hung my head
I set off running to wake from the dream My brother's rifle went into the stream I kept on running into the salt lands And that's where they found me, my head in my hands The sheriff he asked me "Why had I run" Then it came to me just what I had done And all for no reason, just one piece of lead I hung my head, I hung my head
Here in the courthouse, the whole town is there I see the judge high up in his chair "Explain to the courtroom what went through your mind And we'll ask the jury what verdict they find" I said "I felt the power of death over life I orphaned his children I widowed his wife I beg their forgiveness I wish I was dead" I hung my head, I hung my head
Early one morning with time to kill I see the gallows up on the hill And out in the distance a trick of the brain I see a lone rider crossing the plain He's come to fetch me to see what they done We'll ride together til Kingdom come I pray for God's mercy for soon I'll be dead I hung my head, I hung my head
I have begun hunting again with a hot chamber when I'm stationary. When I am out walking, I still carry cold.
IMO a good rule of thumb is, in any situation where you might lose muzzle control (like walking out) the chamber is empty.
Remember shamaa, you brought it up first......
Recommendation: If you ever find yourself hunting dangerous game, please let someone at least hold your wallet and a next of kin notification
I don't hunt dangerous game, and no one brought up dangerous game. Do PH's allow their hunters to carry hot when they're walking through the brush and haven't spotted game yet?
I have begun hunting again with a hot chamber when I'm stationary. When I am out walking, I still carry cold.
IMO a good rule of thumb is, in any situation where you might lose muzzle control (like walking out) the chamber is empty.
Remember shamaa, you brought it up first......
Recommendation: If you ever find yourself hunting dangerous game, please let someone at least hold your wallet and a next of kin notification
I don't hunt dangerous game, and no one brought up dangerous game. Do PH's allow their hunters to carry hot when they're walking through the brush and haven't spotted game yet?
Well, I do as well as many others here. Had you qualified your statement I still wouldn't agree, but anyway. And yes OF COURSE PHs allow it, in fact many insist on it.
Good to know but I'll never hunt with a PH. I thought everyone understood that hunting dangerous game is different than most hunting. In fact, when people discuss things like all-around rifles for North America, lots of times you'll see them qualify their choices along the lines of "except for big bears."
Seems like common sense but I guess it's not as common as it used to be.
I carried hot on three trips to Africa. I also carry hot over here. Any time I am out of the vehicle in a hunting situation I have a round in the chamber. Always have, always will.
I keep track of firearms-related hunting incidents here in CO. We've had three fatalities with a common thread in the last few years. Carrying a long gun with a round in the chamber when there was no need to.
I have begun hunting again with a hot chamber when I'm stationary. When I am out walking, I still carry cold.
IMO a good rule of thumb is, in any situation where you might lose muzzle control (like walking out) the chamber is empty.
Remember shamaa, you brought it up first......
Recommendation: If you ever find yourself hunting dangerous game, please let someone at least hold your wallet and a next of kin notification
I don't hunt dangerous game, and no one brought up dangerous game. Do PH's allow their hunters to carry hot when they're walking through the brush and haven't spotted game yet?
Well, I do as well as many others here. Had you qualified your statement I still wouldn't agree, but anyway. And yes OF COURSE PHs allow it, in fact many insist on it.
If I was hunting Africa I could not imagine hunting cold
When I was being instructed in firearm/hunting safety 40'ish years ago, simply asking the question "can I use my scope to look for stuff" would have earned me a cuff or 2 upside the gourd. Actually doing it and getting caught would have earned a proper ass-whopping most likely spending one season on the bench.
How would you feel walking through the woods with somone using a rifle for spotting game...buy a quality set of binoculars...your success rate will go up.....you can see more game with advrage quality binoculars than the best scopes...
I use binoculars for spotting and a rifle scope to make a final decision. Mostly a matter at a few seconds unless the animal forces me to be patient. Carrying a rifle climbing in the mountains or in the dark my chamber is empty. Once I'm in position to hunt I have a round in the chamber - I prefer to hunt big game alone but practice safe muzzle control all the time.
About 40 years ago hunting pheasant tired after working and driving all night I tripped a little with my finger on the trigger and shot a hole in the ground. A few years ago a new trigger was adjusted too lightly and fired downrange as soon as the bolt closed. I know guns can discharge accidentally- always make sure they can do that without hurting anyone. If you can't do that 100% of the time don't carry hot. Looking at or for things with a rifle scope mounted on a rifle is just plain stupid.
I have begun hunting again with a hot chamber when I'm stationary. When I am out walking, I still carry cold.
IMO a good rule of thumb is, in any situation where you might lose muzzle control (like walking out) the chamber is empty.
Remember shamaa, you brought it up first......
Recommendation: If you ever find yourself hunting dangerous game, please let someone at least hold your wallet and a next of kin notification
I try to stay at least two counties away from anything that might eat me, but I agree: If it's lions, tigers, or bears in play, I vote hot chamber.
The thing of it is, I'm a walking landform. My hunting boots are from the Herman Munster Signature Series. The idea of me pussyfooting about the forest is ludicrous. The deer line up and hide behind trees and laugh at me. Turkeys bust over on the next ridge, when I walk out the front door. On the other hand, with my low-functioning thyroid, I can go somewhere and play like I'm mulch and do a fairly convincing act. Walking around with a hot chamber for me is just wishful thinking.
BTW: You reminded me of one of my favorite peeves when I see movies with Big Game Hunters: The hunter always jacks one in just before they take a shot. WT?
... BTW: You reminded me of one of my favorite peeves when I see movies with Big Game Hunters: The hunter always jacks one in just before they take a shot. WT?
The same is true of Westerns where they always chamber a round in their Winchesters when intimidating someone. In more modern movies, the same display of firm intention is accomplished by racking the slide on a pump shotgun; "Take it or leave it."
I have begun hunting again with a hot chamber when I'm stationary. When I am out walking, I still carry cold.
IMO a good rule of thumb is, in any situation where you might lose muzzle control (like walking out) the chamber is empty.
Remember shamaa, you brought it up first......
Recommendation: If you ever find yourself hunting dangerous game, please let someone at least hold your wallet and a next of kin notification
I try to stay at least two counties away from anything that might eat me, but I agree: If it's lions, tigers, or bears in play, I vote hot chamber.
The thing of it is, I'm a walking landform. My hunting boots are from the Herman Munster Signature Series. The idea of me pussyfooting about the forest is ludicrous. The deer line up and hide behind trees and laugh at me. Turkeys bust over on the next ridge, when I walk out the front door. On the other hand, with my low-functioning thyroid, I can go somewhere and play like I'm mulch and do a fairly convincing act. Walking around with a hot chamber for me is just wishful thinking.
BTW: You reminded me of one of my favorite peeves when I see movies with Big Game Hunters: The hunter always jacks one in just before they take a shot. WT?
I've killed many a critter just that way, chamber and shoot. If one doesn't require velcro sneakers or only hunts with a guide, it's ain't that difficult.
I taught Hunter Education in Wyoming for many years. The vast majority of incidents we tracked involved the unwanted discharge of a firearm coming from unnecessarily having a "hot chamber" , this especially in or around a vehicle.
If it aint a charging cape buffalo, there is NO reason for a hot chamber when out walking around or in a vehicle. Period.
I watched Eyeball shoot a mule deer that is #1 in the state of Texas and #5 in the world. We were on tracks and I told him to chamber a round, he didn't argue. He would not have killed that buck hunting cold and I don't know how he normally carries, but I guarantee he would do it again. When you track like that, in ths area, you better have one in the chamber or prepare to be disappointed. I know there will be a few that say that's fine and refuse to hunt that way, to each his own but not me.
I'm confused. If I go hunting with a loaded rifle some of you think I'm an idiot. If I am deer hunting and look at a deer through the scope I'm an idiot that should be kicked in the nutts. Some of you actually hunt with unloaded guns and think people who don't are idiots, Hilarious I do agree that scanning the hillside with a loaded rifle should never be done. Binoculars are the appropriate tool. On the other hand If I carry a 1911 the only way to do it without being an idiot is a round in the chamber cocked and locked with it down my pants pointed at my nutts. Forums are confusing places. The thing I have learned is no matter which way you do anything there is someone proudly proclaiming you are an idiot.
No need to be confused if you apply a little common sense. As in, "do I need a round in the chamber right now?" and "is there a chance I'm going to lose my footing and/or control of the muzzle?" In sandbilly's post, you could definitely say the hunter needed a round in the chamber in that situation.
But like jnyork said, reviewing the incidents is telling. The three recent ones I mentioned above are typical. In one, there was a grandfather, father, and young son duck hunting in a blind. The kid knocked down a duck and went to retrieve it. With a loaded shotgun. No need to have a round chambered in that situation, outside the blind he's not going to have much of a chance at a shot. He got caught up in the brush, his shotgun discharged, and he died.
Second incident, a father/son hiking to their spot in the dark, elk or deer, I forget which. Son is in the lead with his rifle slung, the top sling swivel comes loose, he grabs for the gun and it discharges, killing his father who was walking behind. Before legal shooting hours.
Third incident, two guided elk hunters side-hilling across a shale slide. Shale slides are definitely a place where you have a good chance of loosing your footing and muzzle control. One hunter looses his footing, falls, and his .300 Win Mag. goes off, hits the guide in the head killing him instantly.
No need to be confused if you apply a little common sense. As in, "do I need a round in the chamber right now?" and "is there a chance I'm going to lose my footing and/or control of the muzzle?" In sandbilly's post, you could definitely say the hunter needed a round in the chamber in that situation.
But like jnyork said, reviewing the incidents is telling. The three recent ones I mentioned above are typical. In one, there was a grandfather, father, and young son duck hunting in a blind. The kid knocked down a duck and went to retrieve it. With a loaded shotgun. No need to have a round chambered in that situation, outside the blind he's not going to have much of a chance at a shot. He got caught up in the brush, his shotgun discharged, and he died.
Second incident, a father/son hiking to their spot in the dark, elk or deer, I forget which. Son is in the lead with his rifle slung, the top sling swivel comes loose, he grabs for the gun and it discharges, killing his father who was walking behind. Before legal shooting hours.
Third incident, two guided elk hunters side-hilling across a shale slide. Shale slides are definitely a place where you have a good chance of loosing your footing and muzzle control. One hunter looses his footing, falls, and his .300 Win Mag. goes off, hits the guide in the head killing him instantly.
Still confused?
Yep,just common sense,but it doesn't seem to be so common anymore. I'm never chambered in the truck,crossing a fence or ditch,with the rifle slung,or before or after hours. I am chambered when I'm sitting still or stalking where I might jump something fast. I never let my kid chamber until sitting with the gun safely laying beside them. They have to unload when we start moving. I've had 40 more years of safe handling experience and I don't want to get shot. When with the kid I'm in front,he is behind unloaded.
I have begun hunting again with a hot chamber when I'm stationary. When I am out walking, I still carry cold.
IMO a good rule of thumb is, in any situation where you might lose muzzle control (like walking out) the chamber is empty.
Remember shamaa, you brought it up first......
Recommendation: If you ever find yourself hunting dangerous game, please let someone at least hold your wallet and a next of kin notification
I try to stay at least two counties away from anything that might eat me, but I agree: If it's lions, tigers, or bears in play, I vote hot chamber.
The thing of it is, I'm a walking landform. My hunting boots are from the Herman Munster Signature Series. The idea of me pussyfooting about the forest is ludicrous. The deer line up and hide behind trees and laugh at me. Turkeys bust over on the next ridge, when I walk out the front door. On the other hand, with my low-functioning thyroid, I can go somewhere and play like I'm mulch and do a fairly convincing act. Walking around with a hot chamber for me is just wishful thinking.
BTW: You reminded me of one of my favorite peeves when I see movies with Big Game Hunters: The hunter always jacks one in just before they take a shot. WT?
I've killed many a critter just that way, chamber and shoot. If one doesn't require velcro sneakers or only hunts with a guide, it's ain't that difficult.
In some situations it works,and in some it won't. Close range deer in thick woods you better be chambered .If you aren't the least noise the deer will bolt and you won't get a shot because he will be out of sight after one leap. It's hard sometimes just to get the rifle to your shoulder without being seen. Think about it like a turkey hunter having to chamber when a gobbler was approaching. He wouldn't kill many turkeys.
... BTW: You reminded me of one of my favorite peeves when I see movies with Big Game Hunters: The hunter always jacks one in just before they take a shot. WT?
The same is true of Westerns where they always chamber a round in their Winchesters when intimidating someone. In more modern movies, the same display of firm intention is accomplished by racking the slide on a pump shotgun; "Take it or leave it."
I've noticed in some movies where they are going for maximum suspense you will see them chamber a round several times before one is ever fired.
I've been on both extremes of the hot chamber thing. I hunt elk with a BLR levergun. With a hot chamber I have had an elk bolt simply from the barely audible sound of drawing the hammer back. AND I was in a completely hidden location. At the other extreme I've drawn down on a nice bull in plain sight, 'CLICK', was still able to actually load the gun and chamber a round and take the bull.
I watched Eyeball shoot a mule deer THAT WAS HAULING ASS THROUGH THICK MESQUITES AFTER WE JUMPED IT FROM ITS BED AFTER TRACKING THAT MONSTER 28 POINT MO FO UP that is #1 in the state of Texas and #5 in the world. We were on tracks and I told him to chamber a round, he didn't argue. HE HIT THAT THING BETWEEN THE LIMBS AND TRUNKS 2 OUTA 3 SHOTS TOO, DIDNT I, I mean he (P T LORD)? He would not have killed that buck hunting cold and I don't know how he normally carries, but I guarantee he would do it again. When you track like that, in ths area, you better have one in the chamber or prepare to be disappointed. I know there will be a few that say that's fine and refuse to hunt that way, to each his own but not me.
Fixt . You did an unreal job tracking that deer down, Jessie.
I carry hot when going from the truck out after quail, doves, ducks, geese, turkeys, coyotes, hogs, bob cats, deer, elk, bear, cranes, etc .
Never let a gun point at any living thing you dont want dead and it wont get shot. Almost everyone that ever got shot had a gun pointed at them.
Live, eat, dream and sleep muzzle direction and if you trip and fall it wont point at anyone. Ive seen retired army guys who couldnt or wouldnt learn that and I never took them hunting again.
I carried hot on three trips to Africa. I also carry hot over here. Any time I am out of the vehicle in a hunting situation I have a round in the chamber. Always have, always will.
So did Davey Crockett, Danny Boone, John Coulter, Liver Eatin Johnson and Kit Carson.
Some of us have actually done both, well actually three, hunt with a guide, hunt with a Professional Hunter and mostly hunted on my own. Always carry with a hot chamber. Then again I wear shoe laces and even chewed gum whilst doing the old "meatball, lineup, angle of attack" at approximately 120 knots and at night, but I must confess, my flight gear did have lots of velcro. I suppose I used firearms that actually worked as designed, and didn't need glue, pins, improved ejectors or safeties that work. YMMV.
In some situations it works,and in some it won't. Close range deer in thick woods you better be chambered .If you aren't the least noise the deer will bolt and you won't get a shot because he will be out of sight after one leap. It's hard sometimes just to get the rifle to your shoulder without being seen. Think about it like a turkey hunter having to chamber when a gobbler was approaching. He wouldn't kill many turkey.
This. ^^^^. Its real hard for most to get a bullet in a deer or elk even at close range in thick timber after it institutes evasive reaction after hearing you close the action.
In some situations it works,and in some it won't. Close range deer in thick woods you better be chambered .If you aren't the least noise the deer will bolt and you won't get a shot because he will be out of sight after one leap. It's hard sometimes just to get the rifle to your shoulder without being seen. Think about it like a turkey hunter having to chamber when a gobbler was approaching. He wouldn't kill many turkey.
This. ^^^^. Its real hard for most to get a bullet in a deer or elk even at close range in thick timber after it institutes evasive reaction after hearing you close the action.
Some stuff is so simple, and yet so hard for some.
To find and identify game, you use your binoculars, spotting scope and or rangefinder.
When you're going to shoot something, you raise your rifle to your shoulder and use your aiming device to point the rifle in the correct direction before pulling the trigger.
I've spent enough time at public ranges to realize there is a significant portion of the shooting public that is grossly incompetent when it comes to firearm safety and gun handling.
I watched Eyeball shoot a mule deer THAT WAS HAULING ASS THROUGH THICK MESQUITES AFTER WE JUMPED IT FROM ITS BED AFTER TRACKING THAT MONSTER 28 POINT MO FO UP that is #1 in the state of Texas and #5 in the world. We were on tracks and I told him to chamber a round, he didn't argue. HE HIT THAT THING BETWEEN THE LIMBS AND TRUNKS 2 OUTA 3 SHOTS TOO, DIDNT I, I mean he (P T LORD)? He would not have killed that buck hunting cold and I don't know how he normally carries, but I guarantee he would do it again. When you track like that, in ths area, you better have one in the chamber or prepare to be disappointed. I know there will be a few that say that's fine and refuse to hunt that way, to each his own but not me.
Fixt . You did an unreal job tracking that deer down, Jessie.
I carry hot when going from the truck out after quail, doves, ducks, geese, turkeys, coyotes, hogs, bob cats, deer, elk, bear, cranes, etc .
Never let a gun point at any living thing you dont want dead and it wont get shot. Almost everyone that ever got shot had a gun pointed at them.
Live, eat, dream and sleep muzzle direction and if you trip and fall it wont point at anyone. Ive seen retired army guys who couldnt or wouldnt learn that and I never took them hunting again.
He did! And I bet he's glad I gave him that auto loader..
Yeah, not bad for the first time i ever fired that gun. Its sweet. Never had seen a Browning (BAR) short track before, lite and very well balanced. I do like that gun, Jessie.
I don't hunt dangerous game, and no one brought up dangerous game. Do PH's allow their hunters to carry hot when they're walking through the brush and haven't spotted game yet?
PHs commonly do allow it and PHs have also learned to live with the worrisome regularity with which clients carelessly muzzle sweep them....same goes for hunting guides on other continents who 'tolerate' being muzzle swept.
The AR Africa groupie crowd will tell you getting swept by muzzle is part of what 'happens' in that environment and don't seem to care much about the regularity with which is happens,...some say they carry a hot chamber but offer their personal comfort and assurance... ' but I do so with the safety on'..LOL.
but the hypocrites will then chew other people out for using an unchambered rifle/scope as a monocular.
Originally Posted by Hogwild7
I'm confused....Forums are confusing places...
Its because hypocrites put forward their idealistic standards, which in many cases they don't live up to themselves.
Appropriate or acceptable gun safety procedures can be relative to particular circumstances-requirements.
When I guided hunters,I never let them put a round in the chamber until it was time to shoot. I bet I heard a thousand times,how they were safe, and I could depend on them....... ya right. I watched many a hunter trip and fall over a tree or rock, and take a tumble. They were barely safe with an empty rifle,let alone with a round in the chamber. My boys and I also hunt with empty chambers. It has never cost us a deer or elk. When calling, a round in the chamber is the last step,and the first step when done calling is removing it.
If I was hunting Africa I could not imagine hunting cold
They were tracking an already wounded lion, had then sighted the lion - and were anticipating the charge. other than that Africa 99.89% of the time is not like preping for CQBE on AlQaeda positions like some would have people believe...
HCs dont really bother me, but dumb schite I've heard from a hunter was like, "I don't leave the vehicle in Africa without a hot chamber' FFS please!
Had more than one mule deer lift their ears and look in my general direction taking the safety off, Have practiced how to let it off with absolutely no noise, and try to remember that in the field. Ya'll hunt how you want , I could care less how you do it, and I will do the same.
There is a reason I keep binoculars around my neck, rifle scopes are NOT for scanning the countryside.
jaguar.......I look at the pics of your buck about 3 times a week and shake my head every time. When tracking out in the sand, I hunt like you do, hot.
I taught Hunter Education in Wyoming for many years. The vast majority of incidents we tracked involved the unwanted discharge of a firearm coming from unnecessarily having a "hot chamber" , this especially in or around a vehicle.
I've been a hunter safety instructor since 1986. The IHEA does not recommend hunting with a cold chamber. They do teach unloading the chamber when climbing into or out of an elevated stand, before entering a vehicle, crossing a fence, ditch or any other time footing is questionable. I've always practiced that. As a rule the chamber is hot when I'm hunting, but will open the action and go cold as terrain dictates, when in camp or a vehicle.
The custom here in GA is to go hot all the time. Comparing accidental shooting stats with some western states where cold chamber hunting is more common we don't have any more shooting accidents than the other states. We do sell about 3 times more hunting licenses each year than many western states. We also have a 5 month deer season, a 3 month turkey season and a 2 month waterfowl season. Add small game and there is something open to hunt 10 months a year.
In fact getting shot while hunting here is almost unheard of. Most accidents and deaths involve guys falling out of elevated stands or having heart attacks.
As a general rule I'm not buying that hunting with a cold chamber is any safer. There are exceptions covered above, but never chambering a round until just prior to a shot is unnecessary. It has been my observation that people who KNOW the chamber is hot tend to do a much better job of keeping the muzzle under control than the guys who THINK their chamber is cold. They get careless. Sooner or later everyone has to chamber a round or you're just hiking with gun. It doesn't take much to forget to un-chamber that round and then get careless thinking the gun is unloaded.
jaguar.......I look at the pics of your buck about 3 times a week and shake my head every time. When tracking out in the sand, I hunt like you do, hot.
Thanks pal for saying that. Coming from you that means a lot. I hope you get that big mo fo yall got on camera after last season. I saw that again on one of your lease buds iphone at the last SCI get together over here. Sorry, i cant remember his name. A slim pleasant fellow.
I hope you get him this year, pal, and I hope he is almost as big as mine . He certainly is the monster of a lifetime. If you could find his track this season i would recommend pm ing Sand Billy to see if he was free a weekend to come help you track it down. Hes awful busy and rarely free but his being free the weekend I asked him to come help was just one more of the many miracles the Lord gave me in my quest for the deer of a hundred lifetimes.
We need to get DocRocket out here for another dove hunt.
PM me your ph if i havent sent you a pic of Claytie holding the rack outside the clinic. He said, "Dayom, that was a big mother fu....".
The AR Africa groupie crowd will tell you getting swept by muzzle is part of what 'happens' in that environment and don't seem to care much about the regularity with which is happens,...
People should act w/in their level of competency gained by training and practice. Most should carry cold due to deficiencies in training or practice. Those that put in the effort to gain true proficiency garner more options.
People should act w/in their level of competency gained by training and practice. Most should carry cold due to deficiencies in training or practice. Those that put in the effort to gain true proficiency garner more options.
mike r
Translation, those who get off on wearing camouflage are intrinsically better equipped with a god-like ability to ignore the safety of others in a civilian setting.
As a general rule I'm not buying that hunting with a cold chamber is any safer. .
You might not buy it, but it's indisputable. Have you ever heard of anyone being shot with a cold chamber? The three examples I cited above were all within the last several years in one state. Every one of the people killed would be alive today if the gun that shot them had a cold chamber.
Originally Posted by atse
When I guided hunters,I never let them put a round in the chamber until it was time to shoot. I bet I heard a thousand times,how they were safe, and I could depend on them....... ya right.
I've been guided on one hunt. My guide didn't have to tell me not to chamber a round until it was time for a shot.
Originally Posted by jaguartx
Never let a gun point at any living thing you dont want dead and it wont get shot. Almost everyone that ever got shot had a gun pointed at them.
Agreed on the first point. On the second, everyone who ever got shot had a gun pointed at them, with a round in the chamber.
So, when you leave the truck chasing after a covey of blue quail that flushed from it getting close youre going to haul ass after them through sage roots and clumps of prairie grass humps and when they flush again 20-50 yds ahead youre going to drop a couple in yer double and sit there with your finger you know where?
When you walk up to the creek with banks covered in oak and sycamore and cottonwood timber and the woodies and mallards flush and are hauling ass down the creek and up through the timber youre going to try shucking a round in as youre jumping logs and dodging vines trying to get an opening lined up on them?
You gonna sneak down deer trail through the switch cane along a southern creek and when a bedded buck jumps from a fallen tree top or a cat squirrel hops up on the side of a pin oak to look at you, youre going to try to chamber a round for no real reason.
Youre going to sit by a water hole in the desert and when a passel of doves whips by youre going to try to chamber a round? Why?
I will pass on hunting that stuff with you. You would be more dangerous dealing with the game and trying to load and then move to get a shot than, if like most, you were hot.
I will pass on hunting with you if you are hauling ass through the sage roots and prairie grass, jumping logs and dodging vines all the while with a hot chamber . Thanks anyway.
Your loss. Thats how desert quail hunters do it. Thats how timber hunting squirrel and duck and deer hunters do it. Thats how guys sitting in duck blinds and laying in goose spreads do it. Thats how guys hunting water holes do it. Thats how many i know on the Fire do it.
You better not ever compare the stats on hunters who get killed on the highway to the number of those who shoot themselves or their buds while hunting.
Your loss. Thats how desert quail hunters do it. Thats how timber hunting squirrel and duck and deer hunters do it. Thats how guys sitting in duck blinds and laying in goose spreads do it. Thats how guys hunting water holes do it. Thats how many i know on the Fire do it.
You better not ever compare the stats on hunters who get killed on the highway to the number of those who shoot themselves or their buds while hunting.
Some are hot and heavy to get a shot off, no matter what. Others are content to risk occasionally not being able to take a shot at an animal as a tradeoff to guarantee they won't accidentally take a shot at a hunting partner or loved one. Some confuse luck with safety.
If anyone is offended by hunting with a round in the chamber sure doesn't want to be around me after we leave the truck...
Aside from having a round chambered, when I'm calling coyotes, I flip the safety off as soon as I start calling and have my rifle on my shooting sticks. About everyone I ever hunted coyotes does that too...
You have a coyote running in hot and heavy and flip the safety off an AR, or some other rifles within 100 yards, and they will do a 180 so quick, you won't know what happened.
If I'm hunting, and out of the truck, my chamber is hot.
My pistol chamber is hot all the time as well. Colt 1911. Cocked and locked. How you should carry them.
I learned a long time ago not to argue too much with the cold chamber crowd, they all seem to have that holier than thou attitude while 95% sit on their ass in a ground blind, tree stand or couch.
I learned a long time ago not to argue too much with the cold chamber crowd, they all seem to have that holier than thou attitude while 95% sit on their ass in a ground blind, tree stand or couch.
Strange how you and I and jag, and many others have lived this long, and not even shot anyone, huh?
I learned a long time ago not to argue too much with the cold chamber crowd, they all seem to have that holier than thou attitude while 95% sit on their ass in a ground blind, tree stand or couch.
Strange how you and I a jag, and many others have lived this long, and not even shot anyone, huh?
So, when you leave the truck chasing after a covey of blue quail that flushed from it getting close youre going to haul ass after them through sage roots and clumps of prairie grass humps and when they flush again 20-50 yds ahead youre going to drop a couple in yer double and sit there with your finger you know where?
When you walk up to the creek with banks covered in oak and sycamore and cottonwood timber and the woodies and mallards flush and are hauling ass down the creek and up through the timber youre going to try shucking a round in as youre jumping logs and dodging vines trying to get an opening lined up on them?
You gonna sneak down deer trail through the switch cane along a southern creek and when a bedded buck jumps from a fallen tree top or a cat squirrel hops up on the side of a pin oak to look at you, youre going to try to chamber a round for no real reason.
Youre going to sit by a water hole in the desert and when a passel of doves whips by youre going to try to chamber a round? Why?
I will pass on hunting that stuff with you. You would be more dangerous dealing with the game and trying to load and then move to get a shot than, if like most, you were hot.
Obviously, if you're flushing birds and hunting with a shotgun, you need to have a round in the chamber. That's just common sense. But you won't catch me jumping logs and vines with a round in the chamber. Especially if I'm hunting with someone else. That's also common sense.
Same with sneaking down a deer trail. I don't have a problem with a round in the chamber, as long as I'm not jumping logs and vines and I can keep control of the muzzle. If I think I might jump a deer, then I need a round in the chamber.
And definitely, if I'm sitting down and waiting for birds, deer, or whatever to come by, I will have a round in the chamber. No question about muzzle control.
Like I said before, the two questions I ask myself are "do I need a round in the chamber right now, and can I keep control of the muzzle." It's not rocket science and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop trying to put words in my mouth.
And as far as "holier than thou," bullsh**. I'm not trying to tell anyone else how to hunt, I don't care how you hunt. I responded to a guy who said he's not buying that it's safer to hunt with a cold chamber. That's nonsense.
Gee, Smokepole, seems youre the one running on me about a hot chamber IIRC. Im a lot safer sneaking down a river bottom deer trail with a hot gun than it is with others in a duck or goose blind or with others around a water hole with hot guns.
Seems you were the one putting words in my mouth. I didnt hunt you up on this thread today and single you out to raise hell with when yesterday or so several world class hunters including Jorge and JG and others said they do the same.
Why is it you singled me out to lecture to today, if i may ask?
Is it possible there is some other burr under your saddle?
So, you do have a burr. Well, i do appreciate knowing many well respected members of the Fire and several prominent members of the community would tend to disagree.
Whatever i have inadvertently done to offend you i sincerely wish to here and now apologize for. I will assure you i had no intention of doing so.
So, Im a dumbass for hunting hot, yet others who do so are evidently not. Ok.
I wish you a blessed day. Thanks for your candor. Take care, jag
I have begun hunting again with a hot chamber when I'm stationary. When I am out walking, I still carry cold.
IMO a good rule of thumb is, in any situation where you might lose muzzle control (like walking out) the chamber is empty.
Remember shamaa, you brought it up first......
Recommendation: If you ever find yourself hunting dangerous game, please let someone at least hold your wallet and a next of kin notification
I don't hunt dangerous game, and no one brought up dangerous game. Do PH's allow their hunters to carry hot when they're walking through the brush and haven't spotted game yet?
Well, I do as well as many others here. Had you qualified your statement I still wouldn't agree, but anyway. And yes OF COURSE PHs allow it, in fact many insist on it.
I've never hunted dangerous game other than black bears and cougars, but one of my plains game PHs recommended I carry hot. I didn't, and never felt the need to, not did I regret it.
I do hunt upland birds with a hot shotgun, so I feel a bit hypocritical...but I am ALWAYS cold with a rifle. It's just how I do things...There's no need and I have never lost an opportunity on a critter because of it, from open prairie pronghorn to tight cover whitetails.
Anyhow to the OP, I never ever EVER scan with a scope...it is simply unacceptable to me, and yes....I have been scanned by folks and it'll piss you off like no other. If I've spotted game and have positive ID that it is in fact game, I will forgo the binos but that's a different situation.
So, Im a dumbass for hunting hot, yet others who do so are evidently not. Ok.
Nice try jag,but as I said, it depends.
Originally Posted by jaguartx
Well, i do appreciate knowing many well respected members of the Fire and several prominent members of the community would tend to disagree.
jag, when you continually reference others to make your point, it just shows that you've failed to make it.
Better luck next time.
It's hard to make a point with someone who knows it all.
I've hunted all my life and in several states other than Texas and I've never known anyone who hunted with an empty chamber.
I have READ about several on here who do.
That's strange.
No, what's strange is that after multiple posts stating otherwise, anyone on here thinks I hunt with an empty chamber. I thought I cleared that up. When I need a round in the chamber, there's a round in the chamber. Flushing birds or rabbits, still hunting in a spot where I might jump a deer or elk, or sitting at a spot where doves might fly or big game might appear. When I'm sitting I don't always need a round in the chamber, but muzzle control is not an issue. When I don't need a round in the chamber or when the footing is no good, there's no round in the chamber. And my judgment on footing is most definitely affected by whether I'm hunting with others.
You're right in that it's hard to make a point with someone who knows it all. It's impossible to make a point with people who don't understand what they read.
Hunting hot vs cold is not a yes or no proposition. As I said above, it depends on the situation. It's not rocket science.
"KayWoodie carries a hot muzzle loader with powder in the pan and a LIT ceegar in his mouth to monitor wind direction- and he's a genius.
Ha! Gotcha!!! I don't smoke ceegars!!! Nor do I smoke my pipe while stalking.
Usually reserved for camp.
But I don't care want anyone says hunting with a flintlock, by its very nature is a hazard. Hence when stalking muzzle discipline is the rule. That is why I always sling any of my rifles German style as I can physically see the muzzle and I am aware of its location at all times. If a trip or fall is involved the muzzle is going in a safe direction, away from me, and in control. As a rule, I generally always hunt alone. Just the way I like it.
But I don't care want anyone says hunting with a flintlock, by its very nature is a hazard. Hence when stalking muzzle discipline is the rule. That is why I always sling any of my rifles German style as I can physically see the muzzle and I am aware of its location at all times. If a trip or fall is involved the muzzle is going in a safe direction, away from me, and in control. As a rule, I generally always hunt alone. Just the way I like it.
I'll admit to using different standards when I'm hunting alone. If I take a spill I can keep the muzzle pointed away from myself. If you look at the incidents where people lose muzzle control and their rifle/shotgun goes off, almost always it's someone else who gets shot. And muzzleloaders are much slower to load when you get a quick chance for a shot, plus you have to take your eyes off the game. Unlike most centerfires. When I'm stalking around alone with mine, it's hot because if I'm going to get a shot, it needs to be.
I brought up others who did it to show how duplicitous and hypocrytical you are when singling me out for your baseless attacks.
You finally admitted it wasnt because of hunting hot, except you dont like that I did so, and should do so only in instances where you, the self appointed holy see re gun safety do it. You then admit its ok to hunt around others with a hot shotgun but not with a hot rifle.
A lot more people are killed while hunting with shotguns at close range.
You first got your panties twisted over the fact that as a 10 year old i saved lawn mowing money a got a 37 dollar ss savage 30-30 and a 3/4 in weaver scope with dovetail rings and admitted to having scanned a few ridges and weedy fields with a scope when i was the only hunter allowed on 1500 acres.
I know you didnt know all the details as at the time and werent concerned with them. Your purpose in admonishing me was fulling your role of holy safety see.
There's some people I wouldn't hunt with if they had an unloaded slingshot...
Everyone's safety standards may be a bit different. By and large, it comes down to common sense. You can teach gun safety, but you can't teach common sense.
I'd rather be around someone that is on the side of too careful than anywhere near someone that is the least bit careless.
But I don't care want anyone says hunting with a flintlock, by its very nature is a hazard. Hence when stalking muzzle discipline is the rule. That is why I always sling any of my rifles German style as I can physically see the muzzle and I am aware of its location at all times. If a trip or fall is involved the muzzle is going in a safe direction, away from me, and in control. As a rule, I generally always hunt alone. Just the way I like it.
I'll admit to using different standards when I'm hunting alone. If I take a spill I can keep the muzzle pointed away from myself. If you look at the incidents where people lose muzzle control and their rifle/shotgun goes off, almost always it's someone else who gets shot. And muzzleloaders are much slower to load when you get a quick chance for a shot, plus you have to take your eyes off the game. Unlike most centerfires. When I'm stalking around alone with mine, it's hot because if I'm going to get a shot, it needs to be.
I lost an acquaintance to a flintlock mishap. He was hunting alone. And somehow slipped in mud coming out of a gully. Shot himself with us Tennessee flint style rifle. All I can think of is he broke the main rule of muzzle control. I can't help but think as he fell he tried to "catch" himself with the rifle as a walking stick. The cock brused off from half cock. Least that's what coroners report arrived at as well. Bad scene. DRT.
Bottom line is you can't never be too safe!!!! Practicing safety at all times is a damn good habit to have.
As a historical sidenote I seem to remember reading (Josiah Gregg) that the second most common cause of death on the old Santa Fe trail was accidental discharge of weapon. Apparently as he went on to explain, folks liked to grab their loaded guns by the muzzle and pull them out of a wagon generally hanging either cock or hammer on something causeing the discharge.
Just thought I'd throw that out.
Edit FYI 1st main cause of death was disease/sickness.
Falling asleep while driving wagon and falling under wheels ranked high too!! 😊
I just did the most dangerous thing, KW. I drove to the clinic amongst south texas indians on wefar driving their F250s, the national truck of Texas. Its easy when your kidd and drs and food and meds are free.
You first got your panties twisted over the fact that as a 10 year old i saved lawn mowing money a got a 37 dollar ss savage 30-30 and a 3/4 in weaver scope with dovetail rings.......
I have no idea what you're talking about. Are you trying to make it sound like I got upset about a 10 year-old mowing lawns and saving his money and buying a gun? Or was it the fact that it was a Savage that pissed me off?
Originally Posted by jaguartx
I brought up others who did it to show how duplicitous and hypocrytical you are when singling me out for your baseless attacks.
Bullsh**. I'm not singling you out for anything. The only thing I've said about hunting with a round in the chamber (and I've said it consistently) is that I ask myself if I really need one in the chamber, and I unload if footing gets bad and I might lose control of the muzzle. Especially when hunting with others.
Then you took that and ran with it, went on a diatribe. Actually a couple of 'em. Naming all kinds of scenarios where (you said) I'd not have a round in the chamber. WTF was that all about?
I didn't single you out for anything, just responded to your BS.
As a historical sidenote I seem to remember reading (Josiah Gregg) that the second most common cause of death on the old Santa Fe trail was accidental discharge of weapon. Apparently as he went on to explain, folks liked to grab their loaded guns by the muzzle and pull them out of a wagon generally hanging either cock or hammer on something causeing the discharge.
Just thought I'd throw that out.
Edit FYI 1st main cause of death was disease/sickness.
Falling asleep while driving wagon and falling under wheels ranked high too!! 😊
My uncle, old skinny McNall managed that trick pulling an old Winchester 30-30 out of a short wheel base Landdrover...shot across his abdomen and scared the living heck out of him.
Well, seems like it was almost only about just yesterday you stated it was due to me being a dumbass and then in the next post to me you were back on the hot gun chitt again. Make up yer mind fer Christ sake.
I will pass on hunting with you if you are hauling ass through the sage roots and prairie grass, jumping logs and dodging vines all the while with a hot chamber . Thanks anyway.
You didn't get it. He wouldn't have to his chamber was hot so he fired at the birds or buck when he first saw them.
Exactly. You stand there looking for an opening. On quail, they do like to get a mesquite between you and them and you may TRY to move to the side in weeds to get a shot. Needless to say I dont hunt with those who cant walk and chew gum. If a person cant keep his muzzle away from me or my dog they get to hunt with a camera.
FWIW, my history of carrying hot has changed. I grew up hunting thickets with a round in the chamber and safety on. Never had a problem, though I fell off of a low cliff one time, rolling and sliding down a rock chute, and in hindsight, could have shot myself as I cradled the carbine to protect it. Teenager with first rifle.
In adulthood I changed to carrying with chamber empty when walking with another person and on rough ground even when alone. That cost me a big 4x4 mule deer that jumped in front of a friend and I as we traversed cliffs and rock slide. I squeezed on an empty chamber, out of earlier habit from carrying hot.
But reading posts here at the campfire confirmed my decision years ago to carry an empty chamber. The exception is when on most calling stands, especially for cats. My preference is to set up in thick stuff which tend to very close shots. My major concern is that switching from hot to empty chamber may cause me to forget when it is hot, so I methodically check.
I have noticed that the shorter the rifle, the easier it is to point the muzzle at yourself. My little Mohawk 600 points at my lower calf if I hold it by the pistol grip and let it hang down.
"Long gun safety" would be more accurate. I grew up with shotguns, and .22lr rifles mostly. Every kid starts off at 12 and carried a wooden gun. You had to treat it as real at all times, and you carried it for the season. You learned to cross fences, creeks, climb ravines, and trees, while always treating it as a real gun. At 13, you got the Savage model 24 .22lr/.410 o/u. And it was your gun until you either out grew it, or another hunter came of age. You could help hunt earlier, as a beater, dog or cleaner, and learned about cleaning game much earlier, but guns were only on the shooting range before that. I took deer with a bow before I was allowed to carry a gun. We were trained from the ground up that every gun was loaded and dangerous, until we proved it ourselves, that it was safe and empty. A safety is used at all times, except when taking the actual shot, and all guns in the field are loaded and dangerous, so take them seriously. A gun was only unloaded at the truck, or if you needed to climb something. At which point the gun was unloaded, checked, and slung on your back. Or pulled up after you on a line muzzle down. (I Still carry a line for this). Guns were never to be pointed at anything you did not intend to kill. If you shot it, you cleaned it. My father laughed pretty hard, when my brother broke that rule, and shot a road sign. I told him "alright, now let me see you clean it, and prepare it for cooking!" Anyone caught looking around with a scope would have been spanked, and gun removed to the truck. (You would still participate, but as a child, not a man.) All guns were and are hot, and muzzle control is never a question, it is an absolute. In recorded history of the family, there has never been an accidental discharge while hunting, and hunting has been part of every generation. I'm not worried about being on smokepole's "dumbass" list for hunting hot. It's the way I was raised, and what I'm used to.
Myself, Kellory. Lots of guys that conceal/carry have hot guns point at them quite a bit. My kimber solo carry is one.
Do most carry a concealed weapon with a clear chamber?
I ponder that myself. I will not use a shoulder hoster that points backwards (at someone else). I DID carry a revolver on a cold chamber, but that gun has been replaced with a semi-auto 9mil. There is no difference in response time with a revolver with a cold chamber, but it does change the response time and potential for failure with a semi-auto. Since I am new to concealed carry, this has been on my mind. I will carry hot, safety on. I know some prefer no safety, but I will practice drawing safety on.
Is it possible there is some other burr under your saddle?
There is. I don't have much tolerance for dumbasses.
Anytime someone disagrees with you, they're a dumass. Been on the receiving end a few times now. If you chose to be a jerk, that's your business, and easily ignored.
Anytime someone disagrees with you, they're a dumass.
Not so. There are lots of people on here who disagree with me all the time, and they don't get the dumbass tag. What makes someone a dumbass is doing what you just did--taking what someone else has said, twisting it around, and ascribing things to the other person that were never said. Like you did when you said I called someone a dumbass for hunting hot. I challenged you to show me where I did that. I'm still waiting.
Originally Posted by kellory
Been on the receiving end a few times now.
Not surprising.
Originally Posted by kellory
If you chose to be a jerk, that's your business, and easily ignored.
Yes, that is my business but apparently, it's not that easily ignored. But please try.
[quote=rockinbbarStrange how you and I and jag, and many others have lived this long, and not even shot anyone, huh? [/quote]
My hunters ed instructor ... never mind how many decades ago ... told me the only way we REALLY treat every gun as if it is loaded is if every gun really is loaded. That has proven correct in my experience. I've had two "incidents" in my life. One came with a gun I had just "unloaded" but lost track of the count of shells I'd removed, then handled it more roughly than I would ever have handled a gun known to be loaded. BOOM. One came with a used gun I purchased from a private party, got it home, didn't know how to operate it, and made a bad guess that it couldn't possibly have a loaded chamber. I'd already unloaded the tube magazine. The only thing I could figure was the action was blocked from cycling because the (internal) hammer was down on an empty chamber. I had a bullet hole in my wall for a long time as a reminder.
Anyways, things have always gone right when I followed that hunter's safety instructor's rules, the only failures I've had were when I didn't or when applying the rule was outside my control.
Regarding carrying hot ... when he and I hunted together later, the person at the front of the line carried hot, the rest carried cold. Carrying hot, in the front of the line, the muzzle stayed forward. Carrying cold, following, the muzzle always stayed to the rear. The very WORST firearms safety violations I've ever seen, field or range, were from military or ex military people. They seemed to assume all guns we always empty except when they were deliberately firing. I've never been "swept" by so many muzzles as when shooting around military / ex-military shooters. Cops are almost, but not quite, as bad.
Nobody is perfect, though. About 7-8 years ago, after a long time away, I went out to help that ex instructor, about 75 years old at that time, retrieve a deer from the woods. He'd left his rifle leaning against a tree. When I picked it up, there was a live round in the chamber and the safety was off. He adamantly denied leaving it in that state. (I guess a bear must have done it, bears do that all the time, right?)
I hunt with a "cold" chamber....always have. That's how I was taught.
As for the looking around with a rifle scope....get some binos and a spotter. I have been "scoped" before, and it didn't end well for the [bleep] that did it....
My hunters ed instructor ... never mind how many decades ago ... told me the only way we REALLY treat every gun as if it is loaded is if every gun really is loaded.
I couldn't disagree more. First, based on the principle that muzzle control is not something anyone can afford to let up on, even if the firearm is unloaded. It's not hard to get into the habit of treating every firearm as if it were loaded, and it's a habit everyone needs to get into. It's easy to treat a gun that you know to be loaded as loaded. The trick is when you know it's unloaded.
The way we teach that is with our replica firearms. We have a set with all the common actions, all the correct parts, and blaze orange stocks so they're unmistakable. But they're inoperable, no firing pins. We pull those out and tell the class that even though the firearms are inoperable, can't be loaded, and can't be fired, we're still going to control the muzzles at all times because that's not something you turn on or off, based on whether it's loaded or not. That's what "treat every gun as if it were loaded" means, They get it. And when they handle the guns, even the ones who've never shot before do a good job with the muzzle.
Second, based on the principle that the overall goal of "treating every firearm as if it were loaded" is safety, i.e., not shooting someone or yourself. If the overall goal is safety, there is no safer firearm than a cold one. No matter the muzzle control. Or no matter how "safe" the hunter is, as your instructor proved to you.
. Mine are more like $300. Or less.
. You did an unreal job tracking that deer down, Jessie. 