FFL Question - 24hourcampfire

If I sell a firearm to someone and ship it to an FFL for transfer, can the FFL dealer send it directly back to me if the purchaser for what ever reason decides he doesn't want it?

As long as you are both in the same state, yes.

The FFL dealer can return it directly to you as long a transfer to the buyer is not done. If the transfer to the buyer is done then it would have to be shipped to your FFL dealer and you would have to do the paperwork just like you never owned it.

The receiving FFL has to log in into his records as being received by his business and when he returns it to you he has to log it in the record book as being returned to you, so you may expect to pay a fee for his paperwork. You may want to sort out what the fee would be if you are contemplating that the rifle will be returned.

If you have any doubts about the process call your local BATF office, if you do not like the answer they give ask them to refer you to the appropriate section of BATF regs where it says that it cannot be done that way. They are required to know the ins and outs of a lot of regulations and sometimes will give an answer just off the top of their head.

Being in the same state has nothing to do with the situation you are asking about.
If both buyer and seller are in the same state, and the state does not have a law against it, an FFL transfer is not required by Federal law as long as you have no reason to suspect that the buyer is a criminal.

You may want to read up on the BATF FAQ's, they are very helpful, and written in plain english, not "lawyerese".

drover

Originally Posted by drover

The FFL dealer can return it directly to you as long a transfer to the buyer is not done. If the transfer to the buyer is done then it would have to be shipped to your FFL dealer and you would have to do the paperwork just like you never owned it.

The receiving FFL has to log in into his records as being received by his business and when he returns it to you he has to log it in the record book as being returned to you, so you may expect to pay a fee for his paperwork. You may want to sort out what the fee would be if you are contemplating that the rifle will be returned.

If you have any doubts about the process call your local BATF office, if you do not like the answer they give ask them to refer you to the appropriate section of BATF regs where it says that it cannot be done that way. They are required to know the ins and outs of a lot of regulations and sometimes will give an answer just off the top of their head.

Being in the same state has nothing to do with the situation you are asking about.
If both buyer and seller are in the same state, and the state does not have a law against it, an FFL transfer is not required by Federal law as long as you have no reason to suspect that the buyer is a criminal.

You may want to read up on the BATF FAQ's, they are very helpful, and written in plain english, not "lawyerese".

drover

I agree with everything you say except the FAQs... many of the answers there are demonstrably wrong... I would also add the returned gun is relogged in the book as a new entry, not simply written in as returned. That is a function of the transfer having been done. The return is considered a new transfer.

Originally Posted by Sitka deer

Originally Posted by drover

The FFL dealer can return it directly to you as long a transfer to the buyer is not done. If the transfer to the buyer is done then it would have to be shipped to your FFL dealer and you would have to do the paperwork just like you never owned it.

The receiving FFL has to log in into his records as being received by his business and when he returns it to you he has to log it in the record book as being returned to you, so you may expect to pay a fee for his paperwork. You may want to sort out what the fee would be if you are contemplating that the rifle will be returned.

If you have any doubts about the process call your local BATF office, if you do not like the answer they give ask them to refer you to the appropriate section of BATF regs where it says that it cannot be done that way. They are required to know the ins and outs of a lot of regulations and sometimes will give an answer just off the top of their head.

Being in the same state has nothing to do with the situation you are asking about.
If both buyer and seller are in the same state, and the state does not have a law against it, an FFL transfer is not required by Federal law as long as you have no reason to suspect that the buyer is a criminal.

You may want to read up on the BATF FAQ's, they are very helpful, and written in plain english, not "lawyerese".

drover

I agree with everything you say except the FAQs... many of the answers there are demonstrably wrong... I would also add the returned gun is relogged in the book as a new entry, not simply written in as returned. That is a function of the transfer having been done. The return is considered a new transfer.

I read the OP's post as that he was shipping the rifle to the transferring FFL as an unlicensed person.

If that is the case the FFL that received the rifle can send it back to the original seller, IF a transfer has not taken place. Yes, you are correct that the return would have to be logged in the FFL's record book as a new entry but the seller could have it returned back to his possession without a new transfer taking place on his end.
No different than sending a rifle to a factory or gunsmith for repairs.

drover

Originally Posted by drover

Originally Posted by Sitka deer

Originally Posted by drover

The FFL dealer can return it directly to you as long a transfer to the buyer is not done. If the transfer to the buyer is done then it would have to be shipped to your FFL dealer and you would have to do the paperwork just like you never owned it.

The receiving FFL has to log in into his records as being received by his business and when he returns it to you he has to log it in the record book as being returned to you, so you may expect to pay a fee for his paperwork. You may want to sort out what the fee would be if you are contemplating that the rifle will be returned.

If you have any doubts about the process call your local BATF office, if you do not like the answer they give ask them to refer you to the appropriate section of BATF regs where it says that it cannot be done that way. They are required to know the ins and outs of a lot of regulations and sometimes will give an answer just off the top of their head.

Being in the same state has nothing to do with the situation you are asking about.
If both buyer and seller are in the same state, and the state does not have a law against it, an FFL transfer is not required by Federal law as long as you have no reason to suspect that the buyer is a criminal.

You may want to read up on the BATF FAQ's, they are very helpful, and written in plain english, not "lawyerese".

drover

I agree with everything you say except the FAQs... many of the answers there are demonstrably wrong... I would also add the returned gun is relogged in the book as a new entry, not simply written in as returned. That is a function of the transfer having been done. The return is considered a new transfer.

I read the OP's post as that he was shipping the rifle to the transferring FFL as an unlicensed person.

If that is the case the FFL that received the rifle can send it back to the original seller, IF a transfer has not taken place. Yes, you are correct that the return would have to be logged in the FFL's record book as a new entry but the seller could have it returned back to his possession without a new transfer taking place on his end.
No different than sending a rifle to a factory or gunsmith for repairs.

drover

Yup, you are completely correct, except it does not HAVE to be a new entry if sent back before a transfer takes place. You absolutely may create a new entry.