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Posted By: mudhen Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/14/17
BEAUMONT — A 20-year-old man on probation after pleading guilty in 2016 to shooting and killing two of the approximately 500 remaining free-ranging whooping cranes was sentenced Thursday to serve 11 months in federal prison for violating terms of that probation.

In a federal court hearing, U.S. Magistrate Judge Zack Hawthorne sentenced Trey Joseph Frederick of Beaumont to 11 months in federal custody followed by a year of supervised release after finding Frederick had violated seven terms Hawthorne had set when he sentenced Frederick in October, 2016. Those probation violations included not complying with prohibitions on hunting or fishing anywhere in the United States or owning or possessing a firearm or ammunition during the five-year probation.

At the Thursday hearing, Hawthorne also imposed mandatory guidelines for Frederick to begin paying a restitution fee of $25,815 he'd ordered as part of sentencing in the original case. Frederick's lack of any payments toward that restitution was one of eight probation violations Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Batte alleged in the revocation hearing.

"At your (October) sentencing, I'd asked you if you had any question what I would do if you violated those conditions (of probation)," Hawthorne said to Frederick before announcing his decision. Frederick appeared in court in inmate attire, having been held in federal custody for more than a month since being arrested.

That arrest came after an investigation by Texas Parks and Wildlife Department game wardens into a case involving hunting from a public road in Jefferson County.

The game wardens testified their investigation of the Feb. 17 incident indicated Frederick and four other men were driving to a tract of private property to hunt feral hogs at night when they saw a feral hog beside the public road. Witness statements and other evidence indicated Frederick, who was driving, fired several shots from an AR-15-style rifle at the feral hog.

Those witnesses, three of whom face misdemeanor citations of hunting from a public road, testified Wednesday, as did the two state game wardens. Frederick's federal probation officer also testified that Frederick failed to meet other probation terms, including monthly reporting requirements and beginning to pay the restitution fee. He had not performed any of the 200 hours of community service ordered by Hawthorne.

In May, 2016, Frederick pleaded guilty to violating the federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act tied to his shooting and killing two whooping cranes on Jan. 11 of that year. The two cranes, part of what has been more than 60 whooping cranes released in southwest Louisiana as part of an effort to reestablish a resident flock of the iconic endangered species, had taken up residence in western Jefferson County.

The world's only wild, migratory flock of whooping cranes winters along the central Texas coast, mainly on and around Aransas National Wildlife Refuge. That flock, which declined to 15 birds, now holds more than 350. All whooping cranes, including the wild migratory flock and reintroduced birds such as those released in Louisiana, are protected under state and federal laws.

In a cooperative investigation, agents with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service law enforcement division and Texas Parks and Wildlife Department game wardens found and interviewed Frederick who confessed to using a rifle to shoot the cranes as he sat in a vehicle on a public road.

"You hate to see anyone incarcerated," Sherrie Roden, president of the Audubon Society's Golden Triangle chapter said after the hearing. "But in this case, I think the sentence is appropriate."
Posted By: Oldman03 Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/14/17
Should have given him 11 yrs. He had his chance and blew it...
Posted By: rockinbbar Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/14/17
We have members here at the 'Fire that post videos of similar illegal activity. And they think it's cutesy to do so...

As far as I'm concerned, this type of criminal (game violators) is the one that does us the most harm... It gives us all a black eye. The fence sitting public and liberal press paint all hunters with the same brush.

Quote
That arrest came after an investigation by Texas Parks and Wildlife Department game wardens into a case involving hunting from a public road in Jefferson County.

The game wardens testified their investigation of the Feb. 17 incident indicated Frederick and four other men were driving to a tract of private property to hunt feral hogs at night when they saw a feral hog beside the public road. Witness statements and other evidence indicated Frederick, who was driving, fired several shots from an AR-15-style rifle at the feral hog.

Those witnesses, three of whom face misdemeanor citations of hunting from a public road, testified Wednesday, as did the two state game wardens. Frederick's federal probation officer also testified that Frederick failed to meet other probation terms, including monthly reporting requirements and beginning to pay the restitution fee. He had not performed any of the 200 hours of community service ordered by Hawthorne.
Posted By: deerstalker Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/14/17
sentence him to a year on the streets of chitcago.ala escape from ny.
Posted By: Rock Chuck Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/14/17
Quote
Hawthorne also imposed mandatory guidelines for Frederick to begin paying a restitution fee of $25,815 he'd ordered as part of sentencing in the original case.
The obvious problem is how much can you earn working in the state's license plate factory?
Posted By: rockinbbar Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/14/17
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Quote
Hawthorne also imposed mandatory guidelines for Frederick to begin paying a restitution fee of $25,815 he'd ordered as part of sentencing in the original case.
The obvious problem is how much can you earn working in the state's license plate factory?



I've often wondered why judges give poor folks huge fines.

They will never be able to live up to the financial obligations. Ever.

They will also resort to criminal activity to acquire the money.

They also will just skip parole or probation if they can't get the money to pay the large fines.

I can see where they would fine someone like that if they had the ways and means of paying. But, otherwise, it's just keeping them in the criminal justice system.
Posted By: mtnsnake Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/14/17
Should have given him more of a sentence. More fine and more months.
Posted By: JSTUART Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/14/17


"Frederick to begin paying a restitution fee of $25,815"


I will bite, restitution for what to whom...is the court saying that the cranes are not wild and are owned by someone?

A fine I can understand, but 'restitution'.
Posted By: bigfish9684 Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/14/17
Originally Posted by JSTUART


"Frederick to begin paying a restitution fee of $25,815"


I will bite, restitution for what to whom...is the court saying that the cranes are not wild and are owned by someone?

A fine I can understand, but 'restitution'.



I'm sure the argument will be the government owns the animals. Just like the USFS thinks they own the trees. THE PEOPLE own them.
Posted By: kid0917 Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/14/17
I have an idea if he paid $100 a year on the $25K it would be enough to keep him clear of another prob. violation. Not paying a dime, and not doing one hr of CS work, shows a real contempt for the law. Stupid has to hurt.
Posted By: rost495 Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/14/17
Originally Posted by JSTUART


"Frederick to begin paying a restitution fee of $25,815"


I will bite, restitution for what to whom...is the court saying that the cranes are not wild and are owned by someone?

A fine I can understand, but 'restitution'.

State of Texas sets a value to all "game animals". If you are caught illegally possessing one you often pay the state back for what they figure the animal is worth.
Posted By: kellory Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/14/17
The State considers all game animals to be state property, that is why it requires a licence to hunt them. Every state varies some, but that is the short answer.
Posted By: curdog4570 Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/14/17
So...... they turn critters loose in South La. and are surprised when they get shot?
Posted By: ShadeTree Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/14/17
Originally Posted by kellory
The State considers all game animals to be state property, that is why it requires a licence to hunt them. Every state varies some, but that is the short answer.


Funny. You could total 5 vehicles a yr hitting deer crossing a road and they wouldn't be responsible for a dime no matter if common sense and game numbers would say they should be handing out a lot more doe tags or not. But if I happen to color outside the lines when killing one, they are owed restitution. If one of my farm animals gets out, I am responsible for any and all damages.

The short answer is they don't own a single animal,,,,never did. I try my best to stay within game laws to be fair to fellow hunters, but I vehemently deny the ownership of any wild game animal by a man in a uniform, just because they say so.
Posted By: deflave Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/14/17
Wow.

Shot some pigs from a road.

Am I supposed to give a fugk?




Travis
Posted By: kellory Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/15/17
Originally Posted by ShadeTree
Originally Posted by kellory
The State considers all game animals to be state property, that is why it requires a licence to hunt them. Every state varies some, but that is the short answer.


Funny. You could total 5 vehicles a yr hitting deer crossing a road and they wouldn't be responsible for a dime no matter if common sense and game numbers would say they should be handing out a lot more doe tags or not. But if I happen to color outside the lines when killing one, they are owed restitution. If one of my farm animals gets out, I am responsible for any and all damages.

The short answer is they don't own a single animal,,,,never did. I try my best to stay within game laws to be fair to fellow hunters, but I vehemently deny the ownership of any wild game animal by a man in a uniform, just because they say so.

Yeah, I think it's funny how the rules change, by installing a high fence, as well. Then it shifts more to a "stewardship " situation, and I don't agree with that either. You get more control due to the fact the gene pool splits at the fence line. "So let me get this straight....I fence and I get to keep what's inside, as if it were my own? Yes. "Ok....then If I shut the gates now, I get to keep your car?" No. "What's the difference? It's a state vehicle, right?"
I don't agree with it but some states claim all rainwater is a state resource, and outlaw rainbarrels, because they claim the water belongs to the State.
But that is the reality of what a licence is. You are begging permission to hunt state property.
Posted By: deflave Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/15/17
All over an animal that can be shot from a helicopter.

LMAO.


Dave
Posted By: Fireball2 Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/15/17
I'd like to see the govt take control of every substance on the planet and make us pay to use it. That's what I call liberty.
Posted By: 222Rem Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/15/17
Originally Posted by deflave
Wow.

All over an animal that can be shot from a helicopter.

LMAO.


Dave



Originally Posted by deflave
Shot some pigs from a road.

Am I supposed to give a fugk?




Travis


Clark,

From what I gathered from the article, it was two Whooping Cranes that were shot. Google tells me those are BIRDS not pigs.
Posted By: simonkenton7 Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/15/17
Five years in Leavenworth, breaking rocks with a sledge hammer. POS to shoot a whooping crane.
Posted By: kellory Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/15/17
Originally Posted by simonkenton7
Five years in Leavenworth, breaking rocks with a sledge hammer. POS to shoot a whooping crane.

Shooting 2 actually, of an existing 500 total. (Protected species) his gun rights and hunting rights and fishing right were revoked by the court, he made no attempt at all to comply with the court's conditions for parole.
It has nothing to do with the pig, and everything to do with the fact he was caught gun in hand hunting, without the right to do so. Lock the idiot up.
Posted By: deflave Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/15/17
Originally Posted by 222Rem
Originally Posted by deflave
Wow.

All over an animal that can be shot from a helicopter.

LMAO.


Dave



Originally Posted by deflave
Shot some pigs from a road.

Am I supposed to give a fugk?




Travis


Clark,

From what I gathered from the article, it was two Whooping Cranes that were shot. Google tells me those are BIRDS not pigs.


The cranes landed him on probation. The pigs landed him in jail.


Dave
Posted By: kingston Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/15/17
The pigs probably would've been forgotten about, if he hadn't shot the cranes. Probation aside, his previous conviction exposes him to accelerated standards.
Posted By: rockinbbar Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/15/17
Originally Posted by kingston
The pigs probably would've been forgotten about, if he hadn't shot the cranes. Probation aside, his previous conviction exposes him to accelerated standards.


The only thing the pig incident does is show his ongoing disregard for game laws.

What you said is exactly right. They wanted to make an impression on him.
Posted By: Mikewriter Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/15/17
Since shooting the cranes was a Federal violation, I doubt if the restitution for the cranes was to the state of Texas, BUT, the state DOES consider game animals to belong to the citizens of the state, and sets restitution in game law cases.

For the folks too dense to understand the high fence thing, in most cases those fences are around (private) properties containing exotic animals purchased and introduced by the land owner, the state does not want them roaming around free, either. Areas fenced to keep deer in - and out - are generally "managed" habitats, and often for pay hunting leases. Some deer breeders pay large amount for their breeding animals, so yes, they "belong" to the land owner. Fence is usually to keep "native" deer out. Probably should read up on the actual laws and situations they deal with before spouting nonsense in public forums.

Mike
Posted By: kellory Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/15/17
"Parole - Wikipedia
Wikipedia › wiki › Parole
Parole is a temporary release of a prisoner who agrees to certain conditions before the completion of the maximum sentence period, originating from the French parole ("voice", "spoken words"). The term became associated during the Middle Ages with the release of prisoners who gave their word."
He did not even attempt to meet The conditions of his "conditional release ", therefore he put himself into jail. His release was only upon set requirements. Parole is still jail, just jail with more freedom of movement.
Posted By: Rock Chuck Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/15/17
Originally Posted by Mikewriter
Since shooting the cranes was a Federal violation, I doubt if the restitution for the cranes was to the state of Texas, BUT, the state DOES consider game animals to belong to the citizens of the state, and sets restitution in game law cases.

For the folks too dense to understand the high fence thing, in most cases those fences are around (private) properties containing exotic animals purchased and introduced by the land owner, the state does not want them roaming around free, either. Areas fenced to keep deer in - and out - are generally "managed" habitats, and often for pay hunting leases. Some deer breeders pay large amount for their breeding animals, so yes, they "belong" to the land owner. Fence is usually to keep "native" deer out. Probably should read up on the actual laws and situations they deal with before spouting nonsense in public forums.

Mike
Whooping cranes aren't game animals.
Posted By: las Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/15/17
Some good posts above, and some laughably off target.

Game belongs to the people, on private (non-high fence) , and public lands. The state and federals are (theoretically and sometimes darkly laughably) our caretaker representatives.

The $ "restitution" is never going to be met, so the post about a lower amount for the next 20 years makes very good sense.

11 months just doesn't seem like enough time for shooting whooping cranes, unless it is for the parole violation on top of much more time for killing the whooping cranes.
Posted By: kellory Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/15/17
Originally Posted by Mikewriter
Since shooting the cranes was a Federal violation, I doubt if the restitution for the cranes was to the state of Texas, BUT, the state DOES consider game animals to belong to the citizens of the state, and sets restitution in game law cases.

For the folks too dense to understand the high fence thing, in most cases those fences are around (private) properties containing exotic animals purchased and introduced by the land owner, the state does not want them roaming around free, either. Areas fenced to keep deer in - and out - are generally "managed" habitats, and often for pay hunting leases. Some deer breeders pay large amount for their breeding animals, so yes, they "belong" to the land owner. Fence is usually to keep "native" deer out. Probably should read up on the actual laws and situations they deal with before spouting nonsense in public forums.

Mike

Yeah, we have one of these high fence outfits just outside city limits. Backed up right to the freeway, and big signs up facing the road. You are welcome to hunt there. Personally, I prefer to get a bit further from the road noise. It may be different where you are, but they will not get any of my business.
Posted By: 222Rem Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/15/17
Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by 222Rem
Originally Posted by deflave
Wow.

All over an animal that can be shot from a helicopter.

LMAO.


Dave



Originally Posted by deflave
Shot some pigs from a road.

Am I supposed to give a fugk?




Travis


Clark,

From what I gathered from the article, it was two Whooping Cranes that were shot. Google tells me those are BIRDS not pigs.


The cranes landed him on probation. The pigs landed him in jail.


Dave


Non-verbally telling a Federal judge to GFY is what landed him in jail.
Posted By: kingston Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/15/17
Who said anything about parole?
Posted By: kellory Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/16/17
Originally Posted by kingston
Who said anything about parole?


"Probation and parole are both alternatives to incarceration. However, probation occurs prior to and often instead of jail or prison time, while parole is an early release from prison. In both probation and parole, the party is supervised and expected to follow certain rules and guidelines.
Difference Between Probation and Parole - Criminal Law - ..."


IF the timing matters to you, pick the term you prefer.
Posted By: kingston Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/16/17
Does Wikipedia list any alternatives to incarceration that don't start with the letter 'P'?
Posted By: kellory Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/16/17
Originally Posted by kingston
Does Wikipedia list any alternatives to incarceration that don't start with the letter 'P'?

Freed. Released, camuted, time served.....
Posted By: kingston Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/16/17
Camuted, is that like work release?
Posted By: kellory Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/16/17
Originally Posted by kingston
Camuted, is that like work release?

Nope, just a typo.

A commuted sentence replaces the original, court-ordered sentence. A controversial example is ex-President Bush’s 2007 decision to commute Scooter Libby’s 30-month prison sentence.
Compared to Pardons

Like the pardoning power, the power to commute sentences is in the executive’s discretion; neither the legislative nor judicial branch can interfere with or override that power.
Posted By: local_dirt Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/16/17
Originally Posted by bigfish9684
Originally Posted by JSTUART


"Frederick to begin paying a restitution fee of $25,815"


I will bite, restitution for what to whom...is the court saying that the cranes are not wild and are owned by someone?

A fine I can understand, but 'restitution'.



I'm sure the argument will be the government owns the animals. Just like the USFS thinks they own the trees. THE PEOPLE own them.




Thank you. That is always my reply. The .gov'ers have a real problem remembering that concept. It's almost like it's... theirs. grin
Posted By: las Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/16/17
Just saw some guy in Kali got 16 years for killing cats. About 20, over 2 weeks. Apparently owned cats vs feral. House cats are not endangered species.
Posted By: Fubarski Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/16/17
Originally Posted by kingston
Does Wikipedia list any alternatives to incarceration that don't start with the letter 'P'?

Well, dumbshat, ya gotta be locked up first to be paroled. Probation means ya don't go unless ya kellory up.
Posted By: kellory Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/16/17
Originally Posted by Fubarski
Originally Posted by kingston
Does Wikipedia list any alternatives to incarceration that don't start with the letter 'P'?

Well, dumbshat, ya gotta be locked up first to be paroled. Probation means ya don't go unless ya kellory up.

No dumshat, you don't have to be locked up first. You should try reading a book, not just using it for a doorstop.

"Parole is "the agreement of persons who have been taken prisoner by an enemy that they will not again take up arms against those who captured them, either for a limited time or during the continuance of the war."[20] The US Department of Defense defines parole more broadly: "Parole agreements are promises given the captor by a POW to fulfill stated conditions, such as not to bear arms or not to escape, in consideration of special privileges, such as release from captivity or lessened restraint."[21]

The practice of paroling enemy troops began thousands of years ago, at least as early as the time of Carthage.[22]"

IF you gave your parole (your word) you did not go to the prison ships, you were free on your bond not to return to the present conflict.

In modern day, U.S military personnel are forbidden to give thier parole. "The Code of the United States Fighting Force states: "I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy."[26 (Assuming you want to keep picking nits over one word choice or another. In this case, they mean Esentially the same. He was forbidden by the court to do certain things, and he did them anyways. )
Go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.00, game over.
Posted By: deflave Re: Bad Habits Die Hard - 07/16/17
Originally Posted by 222Rem


Non-verbally telling a Federal judge to GFY is what landed him in jail.


Oh.

We wouldn't want that. Federal judges are the creme de le creme.





Clark
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