I am enjoying this book, may be too general for the experts, but gives a nice overview, and plenty of individual details. This is vol. 2 of a pacific war trilogy. I haven't read volume 1 yet .
https://www.amazon.com/Conquering-T...ide+war+in+the+pacific+islands+1942-1944New York TimesBestseller “A beautiful blend of history and prose and proves again Mr. Toll’s mastery of the naval-war narrative.” ―Wall Street Journal
This masterful history encompasses the heart of the Pacific War―the period between mid-1942 and mid-1944―when parallel Allied counteroffensives north and south of the equator washed over Japan's far-flung island empire like a "conquering tide," concluding with Japan's irreversible strategic defeat in the Marianas. It was the largest, bloodiest, most costly, most technically innovative and logistically complicated amphibious war in history, and it fostered bitter interservice rivalries, leaving wounds that even victory could not heal.
Often overlooked, these are the years and fights that decided the Pacific War. Ian W. Toll's battle scenes―in the air, at sea, and in the jungles―are simply riveting. He also takes the reader into the wartime councils in Washington and Tokyo where politics and strategy often collided, and into the struggle to mobilize wartime production, which was the secret of Allied victory. Brilliantly researched, the narrative is propelled and colored by firsthand accounts―letters, diaries, debriefings, and memoirs―that are the raw material of the telling details, shrewd judgment, and penetrating insight of this magisterial history.
This volume―continuing the "marvelously readable dramatic narrative" (San Francisco Chronicle) of Pacific Crucible―marks the second installment of the Pacific War Trilogy, which will stand as the first history of the entire Pacific War to be published in at least twenty-five years.
32 pages of illustrations
Sycamore
While you are at it I would recommend, "Neptunes Inferno". I am going to read the book you recommended.
Just finished Pacific Crucible. Looked at both sides in the lead up to Pearl and thru Midway. Highly recommended. And now I have more of his stuff to look forward to.
We learned a lot during that War. Are we forgetting all those bloody costly lessons? What if we had started a naval build up during the depths of the Depression? What ifs can drive one crazy.
you just cost me some more money, downloaded the first book on kindle.
Tell you a short story. Through the years i have had many clients tour the pacific. In a number of cases i had them bring me home little bottles of beach sand. It is different from beach to beach. This also included hiroshima. Guam, the gilberts, etc. This was for my brother in law.
he enlisted in the navy at age 16, was a coxain on a higgins landing boat, saw a lot of beach landings. I promised him when he died i was going to scatter that sand over his grave and some good tequila. He laughed and said don't waste good booze.
Well, he did die and was buried in a v.a. cemetary. Some years later on memorial day i fulfilled that promise. Scattered the sand, wife and i had a hit of the tequila, poured the rest over his grave. Then we took the goldwing up to wickenburg to visit her uncle, killed during the invasion of leyte. While she was looking for the grave, i glanced over in the dirt near my bike and saw some coins lost in the sand. They added up to the plot/row number of my brother in laws grave in the v.a. cemetary. That's when i got the shakes. He was paying me back for that tequila.
I have a number of things from the pacific, a number of rifles, one of which belonged to a member of mcarthur's staff, several knives, one carried all over the south pacific, and one at pearl when it was attacked.
I had a bunch of clients too, I figured i had a client in the air, on the ocean,and on the beach at okinawa. I wish i had recorded the conversations.
We had my military jeep in the parade in prescott over the fourth. thought seriously, maybe next year God Willing, of putting the rifles on the
jeep for the parade. Along with a field jacket and paratrooper boots worn at okinawa. Probably not important to any but me.
We learned a lot during that War. Are we forgetting all those bloody costly lessons? What if we had started a naval build up during the depths of the Depression? What ifs can drive one crazy.
Probably a good thing that didn't happen, as we would have built too many battleships (the "Gun Club" still ran things in the Navy back then) and not enough carriers.
I have read vol 1, but not vol 2 yet.
His book "Six Frigates" is a pretty good read, and that's why I bought vol 1 of his book on the pacific war.
We learned a lot during that War. Are we forgetting all those bloody costly lessons? What if we had started a naval build up during the depths of the Depression? What ifs can drive one crazy.
Probably a good thing that didn't happen, as we would have built too many battleships (the "Gun Club" still ran things in the Navy back then) and not enough carriers.
...What ifs again...what if we had matched Japan carrier for carrier? What if we had had just as many carriers as they did before Pearl? They were worried about our two they could not find.
If I remember right during 41' Japan had 10 of various sizes with something like a total of 28 during the war... the U.S. had 7 with another 11 under rapid construction, and something like 100 of all types and a few under construction that were scraped at wars end.
Phil
Just finished Pacific Crucible. Looked at both sides in the lead up to Pearl and thru Midway. Highly recommended. And now I have more of his stuff to look forward to.
Pacific Crucible is next for me. I'm reading them out of order! Same author as "Conquering Tide" .
"The fleet at flood tide : America at total war in the Pacific, 1944-1945" and "Neptune's Inferno", are by Hornfischer, so I will have to check those out. Got my winter reading planned out!
Although these books pull me in and I read them quickly. I remember my Dad reading a paperback edition of "The Big E: The Story of the USS Enterprise" 50 years ago. which would have been only twenty some years after the war.
read volume one, starting two today. one has a lot of stuff in it i didn't know, surprise right? A lot of the political build up in japan, infighting between army and navy. Midway could have gone a LOT different if it wasn't for a few individual acts.
It wouldn't have changed the outcome of the war, but it was not a sure thing.
At the beginning, japanese equipment, tactics, and leadership were just better.
but we learned quick.
Interesting the discussion on admiral King which you mostly hear nothing about, and the conflict between codebreakers in Ha. and washington.
I picked up another one, thank you kindle, about sub warfare in the coldwar period, blind man's bluff. Recommended to me by someone in the intelligence gathering area.
kind of addictive, in a good way, once you start reading them.
If I remember right during 41' Japan had 10 of various sizes with something like a total of 28 during the war... the U.S. had 7 with another 11 under rapid construction, and something like 100 of all types and a few under construction that were scraped at wars end.
Phil
Just did a quick look up.
"The Imperial Japanese Navy in World War II was the second most powerful navy in the Pacific War in World War II. It was the third largest navy in the world. During the first years of the war the Imperial Japanese Navy dominated the Western Pacific"
They were still building battleships including the largest ever. Had 12 in 1941 with 21 fleet carriers and 4 light carriers
there is some interesting stuff in the second book concerning the japanese coming down the straight off salvo island and the night battle. McCains father, Admiral Mccain was responsible for long range monitoring in a certain area, by pby's. Bad weather prevended them from flying and he didn't report they had flown. So assumption no japanese, that is exactly where they came through.
There was fault enough to go around but another quick story.
i had a book on my desk on the battle of salvo island, older gentlyman came in on some business, saw the book and started crying. After he calmed down he told me the story, he had been on a destroyer, jap cruiser cut it in half. He spent over a week a few hundred yards off the canal, no ship would slow to pick them up fears of artillery fire, afraid to land, japanese army.
they finally had no choice but to float in where they got lucky and met american troops. Some weeks on the canal before getting back to the fleet.
it's kind of something to read these books given conversations with quite a few that actually fought the battles.
researching quadalcanal
which led me to a website where you can punch in a name, and locate a person if buried in a war cemetary. I found two weddle's in the normandy cemetary. Both were in the 9th division, one from kentucky, one from virginia. Both killed on 7/25/44. So I looked up 7/25/44, operation cobra, where on that day the 8th air force bombed our own men. I knew about the bombing, but didn't know about the above two. It makes you wonder. I am sure they were distant relatives, but the odds of that happening on the same day? I knew about operation cobra, but i didn't know till today.
I have finished the second book, everybit as good as the first book.
I also read Ian Tolls trilogy backwards as well. The Conquering Tide then Pacific Crucible. Both very good reads. Neptune's Inferno by James Hornfischer was very good as well. That book really gets into the weeds about the fighting off Guadalcanal and the battles in The Slot as well. I've been meaning to pickup The Fleet at Flood Tide too.
the second book mentions machine gunning shipwrecked japanese sailors.
interesting to me, as that is confirmation of what my brother in law told me that he saw during his time in the pacific.
the second book mentions machine gunning shipwrecked japanese sailors.
interesting to me, as that is confirmation of what my brother in law told me that he saw during his time in the pacific.
Can't remember the name of the Sub but it was very successful early in the war. It's commander invited crew members to come on deck and shoot Jap survivors with Thompson SMGs. Pentagon couldn't decide how to handle it. Japs solved their problem by sinking the sub.
Neptune's Inferno is a very good read, as well as The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors. Another I really enjoyed was With the Old Breed at Pelilu and Okinawa.
Just got Pacific Crucible...looking forward to reading it.
Sycamore
I'm reading Pacific Crucible now, about halfway through it.
what a powerful description of Pearl Harbor, after the attack. the dead and injured, the oil everywhere, the burns, the efforts to restore as much functionality to the harbor as possible.
Samuel Eliot Morison's "The Rising Sun in the Pacific 1931-April 1942," part of his 15-volume history "History of United States Naval Operations in World War II," has an excellent discussion of the efforts to recover ships and rebuild the harbor facilities at Pearl Harbor. The engineering and logistics feats our navy achieved all over the world during WWII are just as impressive as the combat actions, in my opinion.
especially when you think about the US bringing everything from the west coast to the fight ACROSS the Pacific, vs Japan fighting (relatively) near home.
Sycamore
just read in "Pacific Crucible" that one unintended consequence of the japanese sinking most of the US battleships and not the US carriers, they converted the US Navy from a 17 knot fleet ot a 24 knot fleet. Since the japanese battleships were undamaged, they did not switch over to "carrier mentality" as fast. (most of the senior naval leaders in both Navies were battleship guys)
Sycamore
I picked up another one, thank you kindle, about sub warfare in the coldwar period, blind man's bluff. Recommended to me by someone in the intelligence gathering area.
That's good, too. Recommended to me by a friend who was on nuclear sub (boomer).
the second book mentions machine gunning shipwrecked japanese sailors.
interesting to me, as that is confirmation of what my brother in law told me that he saw during his time in the pacific.
This was merely a "bi-product" of what the japs were doing to our guys. For example in the book Shattered Sword about the battle of Midway (arguably the best book on the subject), it relates a story of two USN fliers fished out of the water by the japs. After being physically tortured, they were tied to weights and thrown overboard whilst still alive. Then there's Bataan, etc. Same thing happened here in the West during the Imperial Expansion (AKA Manifest Destiny), where US soldiers also mutilated dead indians as a result of their savage practices of doing it to our guys. This also eventually extended to women and children, who also partook in the savagery. Wars to tend to bring out the worst (and best) in us..
We learned a lot during that War. Are we forgetting all those bloody costly lessons? What if we had started a naval build up during the depths of the Depression? What ifs can drive one crazy.
Our Navy and the Brits were indeed larger than the Japanese Navy. Washington Conference established the 5:5:3 ratio on capital ships five for us and the Brits and three for the japs.
We learned a lot during that War. Are we forgetting all those bloody costly lessons? What if we had started a naval build up during the depths of the Depression? What ifs can drive one crazy.
Our Navy and the Brits were indeed larger than the Japanese Navy. Washington Conference established the 5:5:3 ratio on capital ships five for us and the Brits and three for the japs.
Isn't that the reason the Japanese built more carriers, as they weren't seen as "capital ships" at the time?
We learned a lot during that War. Are we forgetting all those bloody costly lessons? What if we had started a naval build up during the depths of the Depression? What ifs can drive one crazy.
Our Navy and the Brits were indeed larger than the Japanese Navy. Washington Conference established the 5:5:3 ratio on capital ships five for us and the Brits and three for the japs.
Isn't that the reason the Japanese built more carriers, as they weren't seen as "capital ships" at the time?
Emulating my "hero" Starman, this is from Wiki:
"signed by the governments of the United Kingdom, the United States, Japan, France, and Italy. It limited the construction of battleships, battlecruisers and aircraft carriers by the signatories. The numbers of other categories of warships, including cruisers, destroyers and submarines, were not limited by the treaty, but those ships were limited to 10,000 tons displacement" Carriers were a separate category, but still limited to tonnage, that as we all know, the japs blew it off.
And
Tonnage limitations
Country Capital ships Aircraft carriers
British Empire 525,000 tons
(533,000 tonnes) 135,000 tons
(137,000 tonnes)
United States 525,000 tons
(533,000 tonnes) 135,000 tons
(137,000 tonnes)
Empire of Japan 315,000 tons
(320,000 tonnes) 81,000 tons
(82,000 tonnes)
France 175,000 tons
(178,000 tonnes) 60,000 tons
(61,000 tonnes)
Italy 175,000 tons
(178,000 tonnes) 60,000 tons
(61,000 tonnes).
My point has always been...what if we had flexed our war machine muscle when the Axis was getting started. Shown the world what we could do if we put our minds to it.
Not only shorten the depression but shown Hitler and Tojo that their targets would have an virtually unlimited and protected supply dump.
The Japs were worried about the location of two of our carriers. What if they were facing the same number as they had?
NO Pearl Harbor.
While you are at it I would recommend, "Neptunes Inferno". I am going to read the book you recommended.
Before reading Neptunes Inferno I didn't realize how soon after Pearl Harbor the old/slow battleships that were damaged were put back into service and that they would have been available to the fleet in 1942/43 if there had been forward fuel depots to support them.
An untold story is how quickly the U.S. built the support and logistics infrastructure across the Pacific to support the combatants. In just a few months, Ulithi Atoll went from being a sandy speck on a map to becoming the U.S. Navy's largest logistics and support base and once the fighting moved westward, it was downsized until it was abandoned in 12/45.
And the problem with using too much fuel (the old battleships) was why they weren't returned to service to assist in the Solomons as they came out of the repair yards. I didn't realize that until reading Conquering Tide. They eventually did contribute big time at the battle for Leyte.
"The fleet at flood tide : America at total war in the Pacific, 1944-1945" and "Neptune's Inferno", are by Hornfischer, so I will have to check those out. Got my winter reading planned out!
Just finished The Fleet at flood tide. Excellent read. It reinforces my opinion of Mac Arthur as a "two trick pony" as it were. The post-war occupation of Japan and Inchon (not in this particular book) being his only real successes.
"The fleet at flood tide : America at total war in the Pacific, 1944-1945" and "Neptune's Inferno", are by Hornfischer, so I will have to check those out. Got my winter reading planned out!
Just finished The Fleet at flood tide. Excellent read. It reinforces my opinion of Mac Arthur as a "two trick pony" as it were. The post-war occupation of Japan and Inchon (not in this particular book) being his only real successes.
I think MacArthur was a military genius with a huge ego, but that is common in people who really are geniuses. One of his two weaknesses was that he surrounded himself with sycophants who fed his ego and managed the information that he saw. His other weakness was being nearly totally tone deaf about political matters.
A lot like Stanley McChrystal.
Off subject a little, but one of the better WW2 Naval movies is on tonight at 11:15pm on TCMHD, James Cagney and Dennis Weaver in "The Gallant Hours" about Adm. Halsey... Cagney day on TCM all day.
Phil
Battle of the Coral Sea is on the next page (when I put it down last night) . This (Pacific Crucible) is a good book!
Got started on Neptunes Inferno. still enjoying this .
Sycamore
Neptune's Inferno is my favorite recent book on the Pacific War, great book.
The First Team, by Lundstrom is still my favorite.
Websites below both have a ton of general and really specific info, and can keep your interest for hours.
Battle of Midway Roundtable
http://www.midway42.org/Combined Fleet
http://www.combinedfleet.com/
Highly recommend "Nimitz" by E. B.Potter pub Naval Institute Press