If only they had banned these when the Las Vegas Massacre happened, all those kids in Florida would still be alive.........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trump signs memo recommending AG Sessions ban bump stocks — devices that turn weapons into 'machine guns' Dan Mangan
President Donald Trump announced Tuesday that he has recommended that "bump stocks," or devices used to make semi-automatic weapons capable of firing hundreds of rounds per minute, be banned.
Trump said he has signed a memorandum recommending that Attorney General Jeff Sessions declare that bump stocks are illegal.
The gunman who killed 58 people and wounded hundreds of others in Las Vegas in October had at least 12 rifles fitted with bump stocks,
President Donald Trump announced Tuesday that he has recommended that "bump stocks," or devices used to make semi-automatic weapons capable of firing hundreds of rounds per minute, be banned.
Well, at least he hasn't signed the memo to put people on the no-fly list into NICS like he promised to.
Well, he hasn't signed it yet.
Into court we go.. pretty sure the statute states a machinegun is a gun that fires multiple rounds per pull of the trigger, and we have at least 2 ATF determinations that the bump stock is not a machinegun. So will they manage to create new law via regulation?
I always felt bump stocks were in violation of the spirit of that law banning full auto. I don't really have much of a problem with them being outlawed.
Along those lines I love blowing the crap out of stuff with tannerite just as much as the next guy. Am I comfortable knowing it is so easily available? Nope!
Not that it matters, but does anyone even want a bump stock? I've never heard of anyone that does.
Nope.. don't matter.
Actually, I'll agree to making them registered like machineguns if they'll remove the unConstitutional 1986 ban on selling new machineguns to civilians.
See, I'm willing to have a conversation. Give and take.
I always felt bump stocks were in violation of the spirit of that law banning full auto. I don't really have much of a problem with them being outlawed.
Along those lines I love blowing the crap out of stuff with tannerite just as much as the next guy. Am I comfortable knowing it is so easily available? Nope!
Chuck passengers to the wolves....yet the wolves still chase the sleigh.
I always felt bump stocks were in violation of the spirit of that law banning full auto. I don't really have much of a problem with them being outlawed.
Along those lines I love blowing the crap out of stuff with tannerite just as much as the next guy. Am I comfortable knowing it is so easily available? Nope!
All I'm saying is pick your battles. Bump stock ain't one of them. I understand it's a typical knee-jerk reaction, but I won't lose sleep over it. They're just gimmicky, useless things nobody wants.
I always felt bump stocks were in violation of the spirit of that law banning full auto. I don't really have much of a problem with them being outlawed.
That's funny, The ATF has exactly the opposite view.
I always felt bump stocks were in violation of the spirit of that law banning full auto. I don't really have much of a problem with them being outlawed.
Along those lines I love blowing the crap out of stuff with tannerite just as much as the next guy. Am I comfortable knowing it is so easily available? Nope!
are ya worried about yourself? LOL
Folks just don't get it. Punish the crime, not the tool.....
I"d be fine if full auto, and explosives were available over the counter. Just hammer the hell out of folks that violate all the otehr laws... it would work...
"That process began in December, and just a few moments ago I signed a memorandum directing the attorney general to propose regulations to ban all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns," Trump said.
I wonder if binary triggers will included in the "all devices" categories?
The libs have been screaming to ban something. Of all the things Trump COULD have considered banning, bump stocks are almost certainly the least objectionable.
He can say he did "something" about gun control, and almost no real shooter will be inconvenienced.
I always felt bump stocks were in violation of the spirit of that law banning full auto. I don't really have much of a problem with them being outlawed.
Along those lines I love blowing the crap out of stuff with tannerite just as much as the next guy. Am I comfortable knowing it is so easily available? Nope!
are ya worried about yourself? LOL
Folks just don't get it. Punish the crime, not the tool.....
I"d be fine if full auto, and explosives were available over the counter. Just hammer the hell out of folks that violate all the other laws... it would work...
Rost...I usually agree with you. But, most of these shooters are bent on suicide as well as carnage to others, and there usually is nobody alive to punish. For now we need to harden soft targets, then work on the social screw ups that help make these younger folks think mass killing is acceptable if their lives aren't perfect.
Its only a matter of time until AR's etc are class III or banned.
I bet there was quite a run on them at the LGS the last few days
No bet.....I've actually thought about getting one and I'm far from being an "AR guy". I just don't like the idea of the gubment telling me I can't have one and I don't trust the Republicans not to sell us out for one second.
If Sessions actually sticks up for the rule of law and shoots this down, it's gonna be funny to see a bunch of guys cheering him.
And it will go to court, some group will take it. Heck, might be the NRA. They initially pushed it, and for Trump to finish pushing it through will having people dropping them in significant numbers.
The notion of banning them is ridiculous. You can exactly reproduce the effect by mere practice, absent any device. The device just makes it easy to do without practice. Also, a simple wooden dowel can be used to exactly reproduce the effect, making it easy to do without practice. Are they going to prohibit wood dowels?
The libs have been screaming to ban something. Of all the things Trump COULD have considered banning, bump stocks are almost certainly the least objectionable.
He can say he did "something" about gun control, and almost no real shooter will be inconvenienced.
Rocky,
That was unexpected. Do you mean to say those who choose to own/install/use a "bumpstock" are not "real" shooters?
Geno, that's exactly what I meant. It is my opinion that real shooters are interested in accuracy, not in emptying a magazine as quickly as possible. And conversely, that people who just want to make the fastest possible blamblamblam are not real shooters.
So how many of you have actually read the memo? He does not order the banning of bump stocks. He ask the DOJ to tell the ATF to continue with its review previous rulings in bump stocks and to consider and review the comments it got as part of that process and issue an opinion as to the legality of bump stocks within the regulations as written. Then, he directs the DOJ to make sure to regulate all devices that turn legal firearms into illegal machine guns.
It is far short of a specific directive to ban bump stocks.
So how many of you have actually read the memo? He does not order the banning of bump stocks. He ask the DOJ to tell the ATF to continue with its previous rulings in bump stocks and to review the comments it got and issue an opinion as to the legality of bump stocks within the regulations as written. Then, he directs the DOJ to make sure to regulate all devices that turn legal firearms into illegal machine guns.
It is far short of a specific directive to ban bump stocks.
As someone said previously, it's Fake News. Imagine that...
As of now i don't own one but it would be a fun tool to have just for fun.
I know that there are a bunch of folks that see no use for them but if things like this get banned and made illegal,WHAT WILL THEY DO THE NEXT TIME!!!!
I also know some folks that think they are a waste of money/ammo and for whatever reason they can come up with,Just because you don't want/like them doesn't mean that others do. Banning them won't keep someone from killing. Just my 2 cents worth.
If the ATF ruled that a shoestring turned a Garand into a machine gun, I’ve never understood how bump stocks made it through the process. Approving them was so out of character for the Obama administration, I think they may have just done it hoping that someone would use one in a massacre. It would certainly fit with the way they acted in Fast and Furious.
As JoeBob says, it is a memorandum, not an Executive Order. It may well turn out that Sessions says "The BATF has already ruled that the bump stock does NOT turn a semi-auto into a machine gun. Therefore, there is no need to ban them."
Secondly, as an old Marine once said "Decide if this is the hill you are willing to die for."
"Today, I am directing the Department of Justice to dedicate all available resources to complete the review of the comments received, and, as expeditiously as possible, to propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns."
Geno, that's exactly what I meant. It is my opinion that real shooters are interested in accuracy, not in emptying a magazine as quickly as possible. And conversely, that people who just want to make the fastest possible blamblamblam are not real shooters.
I have a tendency to agree with you Rocky. Most of my favorite days at a range have been with a front stuffer, Goex, and patched round balls trying to get a good combo. Or a good bolt action with a few different type of ammo trying to get that magical group.
However, I'll not take away from the fun others might have that feel a need to own one. And some who may be interested in home (neighborhood?) defense might want the ability to provide suppressive fire as they were trained in the military. Do I project that happening? No. Do others? Probably. Otherwise why the high sales numbers of "tactical" items of all sorts?
And I will admit (somewhat sheepishly?) to perhaps having enjoyed myself a time or two with my semi-auto .22's emptying a magazine at a small gong as fast ass I could.
Geno
PS, this argument over the bumpfires reminds me of awhile back and the arguments that existed back in the "assault weapon" ban days, whether the original ban or the re-authorization arguments. Who needs a high powered semi auto hunting rifle, or a high capacity removable magazine shotgun when a double or Rem 870 will do? For that matter who needs a Porsche or Corvette when the speed limits are generally below 75 and those cars can double that?
Now the children are being used to promote the lefts agenda---in florida teens are marching to the capitol to pressure legislators to "do something" but you can't speak against them you'll be burned at the stake--oh and George Clooney donates 500K to "help" them Why is the FBI not being tarred and feathered for not reporting and following thru on the tips they had about this kid?
he directs the DOJ to make sure to regulate all devices that turn legal firearms into illegal machine guns
.
like bump stocks?
Originally Posted by excerpt from story
Today, I am directing the Department of Justice to dedicate all available resources to complete the review of the comments received, and, as expeditiously as possible, to propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.
It's the start, Congress will have to address this.
The ATF could have banned the bump stocks and another device when they first came out. They didn't and let the modification stand. It would have been an internal regulatory ruling. This for me is not a hill to die on. Neither will age 21 to buy an AR. Azzhats continue to abuse schitt - others will get burned.
POTUS is probably going to throw a few crumbs to the gun control crowd to appease them. Yes I know the argument....................its the art of the deal.
So,,, what I am reading here is some people don't want or need "bump stocks" so they think it is OK to ban them from the guys that do. Remember those BS guys have guns, and are gun owners too, and all gun owners should stand together, divide and conquer. Sadly it doesn't work that way.
Never had heard of them, nor have I ever seen one except in the media, but any ban is another step in the wrong direction.
So,,, what I am reading here is some people don't want or need "bump stocks" so they think it is OK to ban them from the guys that do. Remember those BS guys have guns, and are gun owners too, and all gun owners should stand together, divide and conquer. Sadly it doesn't work that way.
Never had heard of them, nor have I ever seen one except in the media, but any ban is another step in the wrong direction.
Sheep following the herder, like a good flock.
I believe there are more that understand this than do not.
So,,, what I am reading here is some people don't want or need "bump stocks" so they think it is OK to ban them from the guys that do. Remember those BS guys have guns, and are gun owners too, and all gun owners should stand together, divide and conquer. Sadly it doesn't work that way.
Never had heard of them, nor have I ever seen one except in the media, but any ban is another step in the wrong direction.
Sheep following the herder, like a good flock.
Yup, One more inch, another chip in our rights that will make no difference other than erode our rights.
I could care less about a bump stock, but it won't save anyone's life. What Trump should have done was to fire those FBI agents that dropped the ball on the Florida school shooter, and promised that it wouldn't happen again from that bunch of idiots.
So,,, what I am reading here is some people don't want or need "bump stocks" so they think it is OK to ban them from the guys that do. Remember those BS guys have guns, and are gun owners too, and all gun owners should stand together, divide and conquer. Sadly it doesn't work that way.
Never had heard of them, nor have I ever seen one except in the media, but any ban is another step in the wrong direction.
Sheep following the herder, like a good flock.
I believe there are more that understand this than do not.
It's the same way the original AR ban got legs.
Yeah, I think that most "get it"...
But, then the Fudds showed up in another thread the other day saying that the federales haven't knocked on their doors for guns yet, so they weren't worried.
So how many of you have actually read the memo? He does not order the banning of bump stocks. He ask the DOJ to tell the ATF to continue with its previous rulings in bump stocks and to review the comments it got and issue an opinion as to the legality of bump stocks within the regulations as written. Then, he directs the DOJ to make sure to regulate all devices that turn legal firearms into illegal machine guns.
A "well regulated militia" should be legally entitled to machine-guns...don't you think?
Or should citizens only be selectively allowed such when its suites a governments agenda?
So how many of you have actually read the memo? He does not order the banning of bump stocks. He ask the DOJ to tell the ATF to continue with its previous rulings in bump stocks and to review the comments it got and issue an opinion as to the legality of bump stocks within the regulations as written. Then, he directs the DOJ to make sure to regulate all devices that turn legal firearms into illegal machine guns.
A "well regulated militia" should be legally entitled to machine-guns...don't you think?
Yes.
At the time the Constitution was penned and adopted and amendments were ratified, the government didn't own any arms that the citizens didn't or couldn't possess as well.
I always felt bump stocks were in violation of the spirit of that law banning full auto. I don't really have much of a problem with them being outlawed.
Along those lines I love blowing the crap out of stuff with tannerite just as much as the next guy. Am I comfortable knowing it is so easily available? Nope!
are ya worried about yourself? LOL
Folks just don't get it. Punish the crime, not the tool.....
I"d be fine if full auto, and explosives were available over the counter. Just hammer the hell out of folks that violate all the otehr laws... it would work...
What a minute....innocent until proven guilty? Why that's just CRAZY! (sarc)
President Donald Trump announced Tuesday that he has recommended that "bump stocks," or devices used to make semi-automatic weapons capable of firing hundreds of rounds per minute, be banned.
This is the problem with electing a city boy.
His city boy son, Don Jr. is a pretty cool guy. Did y'all know that he shoots Service Rifle competitions with his AR15? I've shot alongside him at several matches over the past several years and he is extremely down to earth. On the shooting range you would never guess he was who he is.
If the ATF ruled that a shoestring turned a Garand into a machine gun, I’ve never understood how bump stocks made it through the process. Approving them was so out of character for the Obama administration, I think they may have just done it hoping that someone would use one in a massacre. It would certainly fit with the way they acted in Fast and Furious.
The difference is that the shoe string rig actually does make the gun full auto, as it uses it's own gas power (channeled via the op rod handle tied to the trigger) to release and re-pull the trigger each time. No need to manually release or pull the trigger each time with your finger, as with bump firing.
Bump firing amounts to nothing more than pulling and releasing the semi-auto trigger fast by a certain acquired skill in a technique, or using a device (e.g., bump stock, rubber band, or simple wood dowel) that minimizes the level of skill necessary to do it, but in every case, bump firing involves pulling, releasing, and pulling the trigger faster, with the finger, than is possible by the standard firing technique. That's not a full auto mechanism, and the stock doesn't make it a full auto mechanism, because the trigger still has to be released before it can be fired again.
Just me, but I figure Trump is being Trump. Answer Demo calls for gun control with something pretty useless, that really won't effect a lot of us, but can be used to say he "did something" and before "demands" for something much more serious take root.
Just think what might have happened with Buckwheat still in the White House - or Hillary!
If this happens, and bump stocks are banned, you can thank the NRA.......I couldn't believe they came out in favor of a ban after the Vegas shooting.......
(FAIRFAX, VA) - The National Rifle Association today issued the following statement:
"In the aftermath of the evil and senseless attack in Las Vegas, the American people are looking for answers as to how future tragedies can be prevented. Unfortunately, the first response from some politicians has been to call for more gun control. Banning guns from law-abiding Americans based on the criminal act of a madman will do nothing to prevent future attacks. This is a fact that has been proven time and again in countries across the world. In Las Vegas, reports indicate that certain devices were used to modify the firearms involved. Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law. The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations. In an increasingly dangerous world, the NRA remains focused on our mission: strengthening Americans' Second Amendment freedom to defend themselves, their families and their communities. To that end, on behalf of our five million members across the country, we urge Congress to pass National Right-to-Carry reciprocity, which will allow law-abiding Americans to defend themselves and their families from acts of violence."
"I am the NRA" and I absolutely am not in favor of banning or further regulating bump stocks...........they don't speak for me on this issue.
I don't believe you would see support from Trump or Repubs in congress for banning these devices if they didn't have the NRA's blessings......
"Today, I am directing the Department of Justice to dedicate all available resources to complete the review of the comments received, and, as expeditiously as possible, to propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns."
There ya have it.
That wouldn't touch the bump stock, since a bump stock-equipped semiauto doesn't become a machinegun. A machinegun, by definition, fires continuously with the trigger held back. The bump stock-equipped semiauto still requires that the trigger be released and re-pulled each time.
Just think what might have happened with Buckwheat still in the White House - or Hillary!
Mike Holmes
There were eleven mass shootings that involved the deaths of eight or more people while Obama was in office, 23 mass murders incidents involving the deaths of eight or more people while Bill Clinton was in office. They didn't do sht.
I think our current administration is so paranoid of loosing voter support they could do anything. Hand writing is on the wall, it'll be Trump that chips away at our gun rights.
I always felt bump stocks were in violation of the spirit of that law banning full auto. I don't really have much of a problem with them being outlawed.
Along those lines I love blowing the crap out of stuff with tannerite just as much as the next guy. Am I comfortable knowing it is so easily available? Nope!
So you blame inanimate objects. Got it.
Not at all. Just not a fan of lawyer mentality. I blame lack of enforcing of laws already in place there to stop a nutjob that should have never been able to purchase his weapon given what we know. Hardly inanimate. Look, I am just not a fan of some legalistic technicality granting permission to ignore a law's intent. For instance, Hillary an co. turning in hard drives wiped clean of info. She still technically turned them in so I guess that is ok? I prefer to judge individual issues on their merit with my own yardstick rather than crowd mentality knee jerking. To me bump stocks skirt the law without 'technically' breaking it. I never like my kids giving responses like this and guess it stayed with me.
So how many of you have actually read the memo? He does not order the banning of bump stocks. He ask the DOJ to tell the ATF to continue with its previous rulings in bump stocks and to review the comments it got and issue an opinion as to the legality of bump stocks within the regulations as written. Then, he directs the DOJ to make sure to regulate all devices that turn legal firearms into illegal machine guns.
A "well regulated militia" should be legally entitled to machine-guns...don't you think?
Yes.
At the time the Constitution was penned and adopted and amendments were ratified, the government didn't own any arms that the citizens didn't or couldn't possess as well.
THAT is the letter and intent of that amendment.
Very true and I get so tired of hearing people talk about whether or not a gun has a "sporting purpose". That has zero bearing on it's legitimacy!
I sure as hell hope that he is doing this so that he can "control" the situation........ I guess if I had to offer up a sacrificial lamb, bump stocks would do, but I HATE to see ANY anti gun legislation of any type..... I hope he is doing this to: 1. Do something in the way of gun control to shut up the bleeding heart liberals, even if it isn't much. 2. Control the situation by acting first before they force him to do more.
I'd hate to see him bow down to these ldiots!!!!!!
If the shooter in Vegas had used disciplined fire and aimed the number of deaths would've been twice as high. The bump stock was "impressive " to the un educated and the media only. I won't miss them when they are gone. But, I agree its a slippery slope. kwg
So,,, what I am reading here is some people don't want or need "bump stocks" so they think it is OK to ban them from the guys that do. Remember those BS guys have guns, and are gun owners too, and all gun owners should stand together, divide and conquer. Sadly it doesn't work that way.
Never had heard of them, nor have I ever seen one except in the media, but any ban is another step in the wrong direction.
Sheep following the herder, like a good flock.
My Man
BINGO
I cant believe how many self proclaimed "HUNTERS" are calling talk shows and just dont see the need for Semi Autos
One POS called Tom Sullivan yesterday and talked about how superior he was because he hunted with a pump shot gun and bolt rifle he actually said that when someone showed up with a semi auto he turned his back on them
WHAT A F'EN POS
When I waterfowl hunt I use a SX3 semi I guess I am a jackwagon I hunt with a bolt but there are many guys here in MI hunting with a 450 Bushmaster upper on an AR lower No issues And Yes I LOVE shooting ARs If you dont want one fine if you want mine FU
If you own and AR or not you are in the fight, If you are thinking
Not that it matters, but does anyone even want a bump stock? I've never heard of anyone that does.
Ask that to all the dumazzes bidding on Gunbroker. Prices are going north of $700, for a piece of plastic.
I guess they don’t know you can accomplish the exact same effect with a wood dowel of the right length. You can even affix it to the stock if you don’t want to have to deal with carrying the dowel separately.
All I'm saying is pick your battles. Bump stock ain't one of them. .
IMHO, I think that's exactly what Trump's doing...
I honestly think Trump is playing Possum.
Trump cannot ban them via Executive Order, The Justice Dept cannot Ban them but can make the recommendation to the ATF, The ATF has already declared them a legal accessory.
I'm thinking Trump just laid this in the lap of Congress.
![[Linked Image]](https://gallery.mailchimp.com/a6f8e769979ec2637baadac27/images/e636a63d-4eb1-434f-b689-9327e993537f.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/Hz9norr.jpg)
? I'm sure he didn't take that the way you did.
