Unfortunately, like the various companies and local governments with fleets of firefighting aircraft, it appears that this fire containment system is being stonewalled by bureaucrats within the Forest Service and other federal agencies. F.A.C.S. is already used by residential customers, but can’t seem to break through the barriers of federal inflexibility.
The presentation wasn't made or the company wasn't owned by someone's brother/son/daughter. It'll seem like a great idea when a family member stands to make $5-$10 million off of it..
What I could never figure out is why we can't mobilize the National Guard or other nationally based branches of the military to help knock down these fires before they get so out of control. We already pay these guys and have thousands of helicopters moth balled or on active duty that could be retrofitted with fire suppression equipment.
the forest service and their stable of attorneys could probably be a bit more effective in the real world if the democrats, and their environmentalist supporters and their lawyers weren't filing suit at the drop of a hat. like the muslims, when environmental lawyers tie up the process with procedural issues, the forest service like many agencies and private companies are forced into a corner. their options become limited.
meanwhile the forests burn, and folks who built in the forest are at risk. forest thinnings might make a difference, and reduce the flow of wood from canada, siberia, etc.
What I could never figure out is why we can't mobilize the National Guard or other nationally based branches of the military to help knock down these fires before they get so out of control. We already pay these guys and have thousands of helicopters moth balled or on active duty that could be retrofitted with fire suppression equipment.
There is some law or policy that states the Government must exhaust all civilian contracted agencies before the Guard can be mobilized. The Government cannot compete directly against civilian contractors for jobs or projects that civilians can handle. That is why convicts aren't used more to build roads or chop weeds.
With the limited time for training that the National Guard has for their primary job, is it really a good idea to divert them into fighting forest fires? The combat engineer units might be able to do it, but not combat arms (infantry, armor, arty) or logistics.
Well, if yer makin' a video to show how world-class you are, and to impress lots of potential customers, you probably shouldn't misspell the word "gluten" so stupidly (0:13).
I noticed that "gluten" typo but then couldn't recall if it was spelled wrong or was it my faulty memory? Because I was thinking about how long would it be until someone starts asking if they have a "gluten-free" version of that stuff.
Nothing in the article or video about application rates, cost per mile of fire line, availability, etc.
I get leery of any anecdotal reports of it being able to put out canopy fires. Is there video of it doing just that? If not, perhaps the company can pay for the product's use on a fire on private timberlands, I'd assume no need for USFS OK then, seeing as how it's been cleared by Dept of Ag. Vidoe of it actually performing as alluded to would go a long way in convincing the public to sway the USFS towards its use. If the USFS has a contract with the retardant company, that will cost $$$ to break in associated legal fees and penalties no doubt.
I'm also very leery of anonymous claims such as this:
Quote
He goes on to explain that, “One Forest Service chief told me that their mission is to fight fires, not put out fires.”
Who is this Forest Service Chief? How high up in the chain was said "Chief"?
If it can be proven to work, in the real world, not just small scale use such as shown, then it seems like a reasonable thing to use it. For now, I remain a bit skeptical.
Geno
PS, living where I do, I may just look into having a can to keep on hand...............just in case. Assuming it's affordable enough for a fixed income household.
What I could never figure out is why we can't mobilize the National Guard or other nationally based branches of the military to help knock down these fires before they get so out of control. We already pay these guys and have thousands of helicopters moth balled or on active duty that could be retrofitted with fire suppression equipment.
I've been on federal fires where the National Guard has been call on to bolster the ranks of firefighters on the ground or for air support.
There was a big fire in s.w. oregon 15 years ago; half the fire camp I was in was made up of N.G. soldiers turned wildland firefighters (Siskiyou/Kalmiopsis is a beautiful bitch). There are the M.A.F.F.S. systems that convert military C130's into air tankers. It's not unheard of for National Guard helicopters are used for air support and bucket drops. I think the N.G. is mainly called in when other resources get stretched thin.
So LNF was on the Biscuit? Ten billion feet, four billion salvageable, 280 million actually recovered. What an effing waste -- and the guy that wrote that salvage plan now works for an environmental group.
I'm also very leery of anonymous claims such as this:
Quote
He goes on to explain that, “One Forest Service chief told me that their mission is to fight fires, not put out fires.”
That may very well be true.
If a fire started by lightning they consider to be a natural fire, and it's not burning towards any structures, or endangering humans they may very well let it run for awhile.
Dave Skinner, I was. My crew and I were detailed into Oregon from New Mexico for two weeks. We were first on the 747 fire in the Black Canyon Wilderness, then over to the Biscuit. Practically every wildland firefighting crew this country had was on the latter fire.
This is just one small section of line on that fire, but it was like this everywhere. We'd held our division line for the time we were there, but then had this coming at us from another division while driving the egress road back out.
As for what happened afterward with all the dead and down sugar pine, that really sucked. Yet, that's what the enviros do. Slap a no logging lawshit on the forest service, while fighting that in court the wood goes bad. Look at the Rodeo/Chediski fire in Arizona that same year. White Mountain Apache Reservation's forest was destroyed by that fire, but they told those nut jobs to GFY they were going to log their land and flew alot of good burnt lumber out with skycranes.
As someone who lives where the Biscuit fire was.. burning 540,000 acres or a size bigger than Connecticut..This showed Forest Service mismanagement at it most. The sky and air was toxic for 2 months or better. Here in Grants Pass, you couldn't see 100 yds a lot of the time.
Yet the stupid Forest Service and Tree Huggers, had managed to close most of the roads that had been used for logging, before the area was set up as one of those National Monuments... Al Gore had a big hand in that...the fire crews couldn't get to the areas to fight the fires...
and as always it was something that started small and could have been put out....but liberal leftist policy of letting it burn, and it got totally out of hand... and yet the damn Forest Service expects everyone locally just to accept and put up with their screw ups..
A hardy thanks to all the Fire crews from all over the country who came here to fight the stupid blaze...
Typical Forest Service tho... they took crews from here, and sent them to Nebraska to fight some fires back there... and then imported crews in from all over the West, to come here...
I have little use for Forest Service Managerial types...
As fsr as I'm concerned, the Sierra Club and its sympathizers in the forest service are public enemies number two and three, for the damage they have caused to the land and the collective lungs of the entire PNW.
The Biscuit fire wasn't my first or last rodeo in wildland firefighting, but it definitely was one of the few that left a forever memory with me. I had a hard time putting it behind because a half million acre fire in heavy timber doesn't make sense if we are all doing our jobs the way we swore an oath to do.
The end result seemed like a system collapse that started decades before and each subsequent decision on that forest by forest managers or directives from Washington or court orders, no matter how seemingly insignificant, would eventually avalanche into the biscuit fire.
The smokejumper base at Cave Junction was shuttered 21 years before. Why? Save money. Not needed. Use new and improved firefighting techniques. What a bunch of horseshit. That one fire cost $150,000,000 of taxpayer money to put out. Those jumpers were relatively inexpensive fire fighting insurance on that forest that someone decided to cancel the policy on.
A few of the worst fires I've seen came rolling out of wilderness areas and that Kalmiopsis was no different. Back then we couldn't use chainsaws to cut line in a designated wilderness areas; had to be crosscut saws and handtools only. Couldn't use bulldozers. Had to drive around the area, not into it. Hike in only. I think there was even a ban on portable pumps to draft from streams, rivers, lakes and ponds. Had to hike water in, in a piss pump on your back. Couldn't use class A foam. Couldn't light off using drip torch fuel. The list was endless and senseless.
(Just a side note about wilderness areas: where your firefighters were detailed to Nebraska when the biscuit fire broke out, I had only been back to NM two weeks from the biscuit fire and my crew was sent up to the Nebraska Nat. forest/Pine Ridge ranger district @ Chadron for several weeks of 'severity' detail. Those folks up there saw what a fire in a wilderness area can do when one broke out in the newly minted Soldier Creek Wilderness Area a decade+ before. That landscape was officially designated by dignitaries making big speeches on the official day then two weeks later was leveled by a lightening caused fire. Most of it's wilderness area ponderosa pines...poof.)
I can rattle on about not shutting down timber operations, or closing roads, lack of prescribed burning, protecting some flower or birds...but eventually there is a day of reckoning and I think it was called the biscuit fire .
yes, the bisquit fire. bad stuff, until there's another one or two, equal to or greater than that one.
we can all recall RARE 1 & RARE II.
when there's a demo president supported by demo congress & enforced federal hiring policies, then things are somewhat out of the hands of everyday managers.
they, like any other employee from top to bottom follows orders. it's lockstep. and the congress allocates the funds for fire-fighting.
money being spent on fire suppression does buy christmas for a select group of fire-fighters.
insurance companies cover the bills for houses burnt out in a holocaust.
until the resources that are under threat of being burnt up are worth more than the cost of fire-fighting, then the fire fighting will go on.
that is to say, the resources are important, but apparently not that important?
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