Love you Trump bashers! Yeah, I just love some of this analysis I'm reading from both sides. "Trump showed weakness - Trump embarrassed us - Trump screwed up blah blah blah"
Listen up you politically ignorant and naive idiots. You might learn something. (Trolls, GFY right now. Don't waste my time)
How did Reagan REALLY defeat the USSR? Do you really know? I bet not one you paid attention then or has thought about it since. This is going to need to be the short version. PM me is you want the long version.
Reagan hated communists! (Great man that he was) He wanted to kill off the Soviet Union. No way to nuke it out with them so he decided to bankrupt them. That was tough to do , as they were pumping oil, building a big ass NG pipeline into Western Europe, and were going to be making money hand over fist with the price of crude some where in the neighbor of $30/bbl.
Now, the USSR had just spend a butt load of money screwing around in Afghanistan (GWB apparently slept through that history lesson), so were cash short, but prospects looked good for a bright economic future to enable them to continue the Cold War by proxy and fund Castro and Ortega and just about any other commie that could destabilize democracy in world and keep us busy fights them elsewhere.
Reagan's plan: 1.) Force them to spend more money on defense. It's expensive, and they have to keep up with us to remain a Superpower 2.) Cut off their money supply.
To make this as brief as possible, Reagan got appropriations to rebuild our military after Carter neglected it. He increased our navy and air force drastically from Carter years. Next, he got the plans for the anti ballistic missile defense - Strategic Defense Initiative (STAR WARS) and the Soviets were told by their scientists that it was possible to create. you will see today that with the Patriot missile system, Star Wars is coming to fruition.
This caused the Soviets to react, and begin development of their counter measures and they had to increase their military spending.
Now on to the economic front. The USSR had all the oil they could pump, but it cost about $26/bbl to produce. With Crude about $30/bbl life was good and the money came rolling in. In 1987, Reagan got the Saudis to up crude production, and the price of crude bottomed out around $13/bbl. It hurt Texas and Oklahoma, but wiped out the USSR. No way to pump their crap for less than $26/bbl. they were out of business and THAT's how Reagan beat the Soviet Union.
So what has Trump been up to the past month, you bitching geniuses? Well let me see:
What has he got the Saudis doing? (deja vu)
Quote
Oil Falls on Prospect of Supply Boost, But Market's `Nervous' By Jessica Summers and Erin Douglas July 1, 2018, 7:55 PM EDT Updated on July 2, 2018, 4:10 PM EDT
Crude declined after U.S. President Donald Trump put pressure on Saudi Arabia to ramp up oil output, with traders worrying about how it could affect spare capacity ahead.
Let's see what he's doing with Europe:
Quote
Trump Roils NATO Allies With Calls to Double Military Spending U.S. leader urges allies to double target to 4% while questioning the alliance’s value and bashing Germany for its support of a Russia gas deal
What to Expect From NATO's Summit in Brussels
The NATO summit in Brussels will take place amid tense relationships within the alliance. The Wall Street Journal's Gerald F. Seib looks at what to expect. Photo: Getty By Rebecca Ballhaus, Valentina Pop and Laurence Norman Updated July 11, 2018 6:50 p.m. ET BRUSSELS—President Donald Trump pressed allies to double their military spending target to 4% of GDP, while questioning NATO’s value and bashing Germany for supporting a gas deal with Russia.
After attacking North Atlantic Treaty Organization leaders for months for not meeting a 2% spending target, Mr. Trump said on Wednesday that amount was too low.
Let's take alook about how Eastern Europe saw the NATO Summit:
Quote
Trump's tough NATO talk plays well on eastern flank By: VANESSA GERA, Associated Press
Updated: Jul 12, 2018 - 12:03 PM
Trump's tough NATO talk plays well on eastern flank
BRUSSELS (AP) - While President Donald Trump's hectoring at the NATO summit alarmed many in the West, his message was mostly embraced Thursday along the alliance's eastern flank - the region that feels most threatened by an assertive Russia. From Poland and the tiny Baltic states down to Romania, eastern leaders welcomed Trump's push for members of the 29-nation alliance to spend more on their militaries, something they have sought following Russian incursions in Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014.
After all, they had been under Moscow's thumb for decades after World War II.
Content Continues Below On the first day of the summit, Trump lambasted his partners for not spending their fair share on defense and asked on Twitter: "What good is NATO if Germany is paying Russia billions of dollars for gas and energy?"
But by the time the summit concluded Thursday he was praising NATO as "very unified, very strong." "He came, he saw, he conquered," declared Poland's state-run broadcaster TVP in an opinion piece. "Contrary to criticism and fears, Trump's brutally sincere behavior has not broken NATO's unity but has mobilized its members to further action that strengthened the organization."
Linas Linkevicius, the foreign minister of Lithuania, wrote on Twitter: "?Strength is a choice, not a given. Once again #NATOSummit bring us closer & stronger. We are resolute, committed to mutual defense, fair burden sharing."
NATO member Estonia noted that a Russian military aircraft even violated its airspace Thursday near the Baltic Sea island of Vaindloo, the second such alleged incident this week and the third in a month.
Many in the region also welcomed Trump's opening salvo when he lashed out at Germany's pursuit of a gas pipeline venture with Russia, which Trump said made Berlin "captive" to Russia.
That message echoed fears that have long been expressed by leaders in the Baltic states and Poland. They fear the gas pipeline will make Europe more dependent on Russian energy, giving Moscow more political leverage over the continent. Poland's prime minister has even called it a "new hybrid weapon."
The countries on the eastern flank also stressed that, despite the divisions, the achievements of the summit in Brussels made them safer. These include opening accession talks with Macedonia and formally signing off on a plan that would improve the alliance's ability to deploy faster in case of an attack. The plan ensures that NATO could deploy 30 land battalions, 30 ships and 30 warplane squadrons at a 30-day notice.
Romanian President Klaus Iohannis, whose Black Sea nation also feels vulnerable with Russia's resurgence, said he saw "no danger" of NATO breaking up.
"There isn't a conflict," he said. "Trump said things plainly, as is normal between friends and allies."
So now I will challenge some of you low IQ bitchmasters to take a look at these two periods of history and compare and contrast.
1980's Reagan upped military spending, forced the Ruskies to do the same, and then cut their legs out from under them by dropping the price on their only viable export - OIL and NG. The USSR crumbled. The Iron Curtain fell and it fell quickly. Germany reunited. Poland is now one of our stanchest allies. It was all unheard of in 1980. A decade later, we win!
2018 - Trump puts emphasis on military spending. Trump puts emphasis on domestic energy production. Trump gets Saudis to increase production. Trump makes friends with countries in Eastern Europe nearest to Russia. Trump demands NATO spend more on military.
Do you now see what is going on? Some of you very same people that have wet dreams about Reagan can't see that Trump is using the Reagan playbook, one that was incredibly successful to pressure Putin and the USSR. Trump doesn't need to threaten Putin. Trump doesn't need to confront Putin. Trump doesn't need to "stand up to Putin" Trump has Putin by the balls. If the price of oil and NG drops below the price that Russia can produce it, they are out of business.
Why do you think that Trump has been pushing shipping our NG to Europe? It's not all about jobs. Some but not all. Why do you think that Trump is livid at Merkel and Germany about their own private NG pipeline under the Baltic with Russia? Trump is trying to crush Putin's balls economically and Merkel is giving him a lifeline. Trump is willing to practically GIVE NG to Europe if it weakens Russia, and the damn Germans are giving Putin economic mouth to mouth resuscitation.
Chew on that and come back and tell how Trump should have been bolder with Putin and nicer to our allies. Phouc no! Our "allies" need to get in line and play right. There is an opportunity here to transform the world and make it better just like it happened in the 1980s. It's time for Putin to go, and it's time for Russia to reform once again. The only way to make it happen to to cripple them economically, and they will demand a change at the top. It is all there for the taking.
Damn straight Trump probably dog cussed Merkel, May, and Macron to their faces. They are wasting a Golden Opportunity. No other country and certainly no other World leader can make this happen except Trump and they are impeding a proven formula for taking the Russian down.
As for not playing Macho Man with Vlad? Vlad can read a spread sheet. Unlike most of YOU, he knows the Saudis have increase oil production. He knows crude is no longer at $100/bbl. He know we are fracking and producing the [bleep] out of oil and NG. He knows we are willing to GIVE it to Europe. Putin knows that NATO spending is going up. He knows that Poland and the Ukraine have leaned to the West and the US. AND PUTIN KNOWS WHO HAS MADE ALL OF THIS HAPPEN. He knows it ain't Hillary Rodham Clinton in the White House.
Some of you will go to sleep tonight all phoucing depressed, thinking that Trump has pussed out, and Vlad has more hair on his ass than Donald. Not me, I'm sleeping well. I'm sleeping well because I can recognize the plan at work. I recognize this is the exact same plan that worked for Reagan. I know that if Merkel, May and the rest of the Euroweenies get on board, Putin is toast and so are a lot of the World's problems. Some of you will also realize this and stop bitching.
You might also get to the point where you start to understand that Trump uses economics both as a carrot and a stick. He puts the screws to Lil Kim, and gets him talking. Tells him that NK can either wither on the vine, or grow and get rich and TRUMP holds the keys to both. For Putin, he DOESN'T WANT TO NEGOTIATE WITH PUTIN! Trump wants Putin OUT OF OFFICE and the way to make that happen permanently is to cripple the Russian economy to the point that either Vlad gives in or the Russian people throw him out.
Hat, ur burning too many calories on this. Those that care do. Those that don’t wont.
Yeah, I'm being too hard on the guys here under 50. They weren't around in those days, so I can't expect them to remember this stuff. The most vociferous of the Trump bitchers though, are over 50 and just don't phoucing pay attention.
I also need to run a parallel thread that is 2 paragraphs long for the short attention spanners here.
Hey, Trump bitchers! Remember when Reagan had NATO deploy Pershing II missiles in Europe and the Soviets [bleep] all over themselves? Remember when the Euroweenies protested and burned Reagan in effigy? Have you read where declassified USSR documents show those protests where organized and funded by the Communist Party?
No, didn't think so. That put military pressure on the USSR. Did you know NATO is doing war games in Poland and the Ukraine this year? All to put military pressure on the Russians.
Love you Trump bashers! Yeah, I just love some of this analysis I'm reading from both sides. "Trump showed weakness - Trump embarrassed us - Trump screwed up blah blah blah"
Listen up you politically ignorant and naive idiots. You might learn something. (Trolls, GFY right now. Don't waste my time)
How did Reagan REALLY defeat the USSR? Do you really know? I bet not one you paid attention then or has thought about it since. This is going to need to be the short version. PM me is you want the long version.
Reagan hated communists! (Great man that he was) He wanted to kill off the Soviet Union. No way to nuke it out with them so he decided to bankrupt them. That was tough to do , as they were pumping oil, building a big ass NG pipeline into Western Europe, and were going to be making money hand over fist with the price of crude some where in the neighbor of $30/bbl.
Now, the USSR had just spend a butt load of money screwing around in Afghanistan (GWB apparently slept through that history lesson), so were cash short, but prospects looked good for a bright economic future to enable them to continue the Cold War by proxy and fund Castro and Ortega and just about any other commie that could destabilize democracy in world and keep us busy fights them elsewhere.
Reagan's plan: 1.) Force them to spend more money on defense. It's expensive, and they have to keep up with us to remain a Superpower 2.) Cut off their money supply.
To make this as brief as possible, Reagan got appropriations to rebuild our military after Carter neglected it. He increased our navy and air force drastically from Carter years. Next, he got the plans for the anti ballistic missile defense - Strategic Defense Initiative (STAR WARS) and the Soviets were told by their scientists that it was possible to create. you will see today that with the Patriot missile system, Star Wars is coming to fruition.
This caused the Soviets to react, and begin development of their counter measures and they had to increase their military spending.
Now on to the economic front. The USSR had all the oil they could pump, but it cost about $26/bbl to produce. With Crude about $30/bbl life was good and the money came rolling in. In 1987, Reagan got the Saudis to up crude production, and the price of crude bottomed out around $13/bbl. It hurt Texas and Oklahoma, but wiped out the USSR. No way to pump their crap for less than $26/bbl. they were out of business and THAT's how Reagan beat the Soviet Union.
So what has Trump been up to the past month, you bitching geniuses? Well let me see:
What has he got the Saudis doing? (deja vu)
Quote
Oil Falls on Prospect of Supply Boost, But Market's `Nervous' By Jessica Summers and Erin Douglas July 1, 2018, 7:55 PM EDT Updated on July 2, 2018, 4:10 PM EDT
Crude declined after U.S. President Donald Trump put pressure on Saudi Arabia to ramp up oil output, with traders worrying about how it could affect spare capacity ahead.
Let's see what he's doing with Europe:
Quote
Trump Roils NATO Allies With Calls to Double Military Spending U.S. leader urges allies to double target to 4% while questioning the alliance’s value and bashing Germany for its support of a Russia gas deal
What to Expect From NATO's Summit in Brussels
The NATO summit in Brussels will take place amid tense relationships within the alliance. The Wall Street Journal's Gerald F. Seib looks at what to expect. Photo: Getty By Rebecca Ballhaus, Valentina Pop and Laurence Norman Updated July 11, 2018 6:50 p.m. ET BRUSSELS—President Donald Trump pressed allies to double their military spending target to 4% of GDP, while questioning NATO’s value and bashing Germany for supporting a gas deal with Russia.
After attacking North Atlantic Treaty Organization leaders for months for not meeting a 2% spending target, Mr. Trump said on Wednesday that amount was too low.
Let's take alook about how Eastern Europe saw the NATO Summit:
Quote
Trump's tough NATO talk plays well on eastern flank By: VANESSA GERA, Associated Press
Updated: Jul 12, 2018 - 12:03 PM
Trump's tough NATO talk plays well on eastern flank
BRUSSELS (AP) - While President Donald Trump's hectoring at the NATO summit alarmed many in the West, his message was mostly embraced Thursday along the alliance's eastern flank - the region that feels most threatened by an assertive Russia. From Poland and the tiny Baltic states down to Romania, eastern leaders welcomed Trump's push for members of the 29-nation alliance to spend more on their militaries, something they have sought following Russian incursions in Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014.
After all, they had been under Moscow's thumb for decades after World War II.
Content Continues Below On the first day of the summit, Trump lambasted his partners for not spending their fair share on defense and asked on Twitter: "What good is NATO if Germany is paying Russia billions of dollars for gas and energy?"
But by the time the summit concluded Thursday he was praising NATO as "very unified, very strong." "He came, he saw, he conquered," declared Poland's state-run broadcaster TVP in an opinion piece. "Contrary to criticism and fears, Trump's brutally sincere behavior has not broken NATO's unity but has mobilized its members to further action that strengthened the organization."
Linas Linkevicius, the foreign minister of Lithuania, wrote on Twitter: "?Strength is a choice, not a given. Once again #NATOSummit bring us closer & stronger. We are resolute, committed to mutual defense, fair burden sharing."
NATO member Estonia noted that a Russian military aircraft even violated its airspace Thursday near the Baltic Sea island of Vaindloo, the second such alleged incident this week and the third in a month.
Many in the region also welcomed Trump's opening salvo when he lashed out at Germany's pursuit of a gas pipeline venture with Russia, which Trump said made Berlin "captive" to Russia.
That message echoed fears that have long been expressed by leaders in the Baltic states and Poland. They fear the gas pipeline will make Europe more dependent on Russian energy, giving Moscow more political leverage over the continent. Poland's prime minister has even called it a "new hybrid weapon."
The countries on the eastern flank also stressed that, despite the divisions, the achievements of the summit in Brussels made them safer. These include opening accession talks with Macedonia and formally signing off on a plan that would improve the alliance's ability to deploy faster in case of an attack. The plan ensures that NATO could deploy 30 land battalions, 30 ships and 30 warplane squadrons at a 30-day notice.
Romanian President Klaus Iohannis, whose Black Sea nation also feels vulnerable with Russia's resurgence, said he saw "no danger" of NATO breaking up.
"There isn't a conflict," he said. "Trump said things plainly, as is normal between friends and allies."
So now I will challenge some of you low IQ bitchmasters to take a look at these two periods of history and compare and contrast.
1980's Reagan upped military spending, forced the Ruskies to do the same, and then cut their legs out from under them by dropping the price on their only viable export - OIL and NG. The USSR crumbled. The Iron Curtain fell and it fell quickly. Germany reunited. Poland is now one of our stanchest allies. It was all unheard of in 1980. A decade later, we win!
2018 - Trump puts emphasis on military spending. Trump puts emphasis on domestic energy production. Trump gets Saudis to increase production. Trump makes friends with countries in Eastern Europe nearest to Russia. Trump demands NATO spend more on military.
Do you now see what is going on? Some of you very same people that have wet dreams about Reagan can't see that Trump is using the Reagan playbook, one that was incredibly successful to pressure Putin and the USSR. Trump doesn't need to threaten Putin. Trump doesn't need to confront Putin. Trump doesn't need to "stand up to Putin" Trump has Putin by the balls. If the price of oil and NG drops below the price that Russia can produce it, they are out of business.
Why do you think that Trump has been pushing shipping our NG to Europe? It's not all about jobs. Some but not all. Why do you think that Trump is livid at Merkel and Germany about their own private NG pipeline under the Baltic with Russia? Trump is trying to crush Putin's balls economically and Merkel is giving him a lifeline. Trump is willing to practically GIVE NG to Europe if it weakens Russia, and the damn Germans are giving Putin economic mouth to mouth resuscitation.
Chew on that and come back and tell how Trump should have been bolder with Putin and nicer to our allies. Phouc no! Our "allies" need to get in line and play right. There is an opportunity here to transform the world and make it better just like it happened in the 1980s. It's time for Putin to go, and it's time for Russia to reform once again. The only way to make it happen to to cripple them economically, and they will demand a change at the top. It is all there for the taking.
Damn straight Trump probably dog cussed Merkel, May, and Macron to their faces. They are wasting a Golden Opportunity. No other country and certainly no other World leader can make this happen except Trump and they are impeding a proven formula for taking the Russian down.
As for not playing Macho Man with Vlad? Vlad can read a spread sheet. Unlike most of YOU, he knows the Saudis have increase oil production. He knows crude is no longer at $100/bbl. He know we are fracking and producing the [bleep] out of oil and NG. He knows we are willing to GIVE it to Europe. Putin knows that NATO spending is going up. He knows that Poland and the Ukraine have leaned to the West and the US. AND PUTIN KNOWS WHO HAS MADE ALL OF THIS HAPPEN. He knows it ain't Hillary Rodham Clinton in the White House.
Some of you will go to sleep tonight all phoucing depressed, thinking that Trump has pussed out, and Vlad has more hair on his ass than Donald. Not me, I'm sleeping well. I'm sleeping well because I can recognize the plan at work. I recognize this is the exact same plan that worked for Reagan. I know that if Merkel, May and the rest of the Euroweenies get on board, Putin is toast and so are a lot of the World's problems. So of you will also realize this and stop bitching.
You might also get to the point where you start to understand that Trump uses economics both as a carrot and a stick. He puts the screws to Lil Kim, and gets him talking. Tells him that NK can either wither on the vine, or grow and get rich and TRUMP holds the keys to both. For Putin, he DOESN'T WANT TO NEGOTIATE WITH PUTIN! Trump wants Putin OUT OF OFFICE and the way to make that happen permanently is to cripple the Russian econimy to the point that either Vlad gives in or the Russian people throw him out.
Reagan other than his speech and supposed challenge had little to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union, In fact he wasn't even President at the time... also a lot of what later has been credited to Reagan was actually Bush Sr., that being aside it was wholly Gorbachev's policies and those results that brought about the dissolving of the Soviet Republics. Star-Wars was a total failure at the time and for many years after though it did result in quite a few technological breakthroughs far down the line... but by then Regan, Gorbachev and the Soviet Union were long gone and had nothing to do with the Soviet dissolvement and/or the collapse of the wall, which was I believe 9 Nov, 1989 nearly a year after Reagan leaving office
Love you Trump bashers! Yeah, I just love some of this analysis I'm reading from both sides. "Trump showed weakness - Trump embarrassed us - Trump screwed up blah blah blah"
Listen up you politically ignorant and naive idiots. You might learn something. (Trolls, GFY right now. Don't waste my time)
How did Reagan REALLY defeat the USSR? Do you really know? I bet not one you paid attention then or has thought about it since. This is going to need to be the short version. PM me is you want the long version.
Reagan hated communists! (Great man that he was) He wanted to kill off the Soviet Union. No way to nuke it out with them so he decided to bankrupt them. That was tough to do , as they were pumping oil, building a big ass NG pipeline into Western Europe, and were going to be making money hand over fist with the price of crude some where in the neighbor of $30/bbl.
Now, the USSR had just spend a butt load of money screwing around in Afghanistan (GWB apparently slept through that history lesson), so were cash short, but prospects looked good for a bright economic future to enable them to continue the Cold War by proxy and fund Castro and Ortega and just about any other commie that could destabilize democracy in world and keep us busy fights them elsewhere.
Reagan's plan: 1.) Force them to spend more money on defense. It's expensive, and they have to keep up with us to remain a Superpower 2.) Cut off their money supply.
To make this as brief as possible, Reagan got appropriations to rebuild our military after Carter neglected it. He increased our navy and air force drastically from Carter years. Next, he got the plans for the anti ballistic missile defense - Strategic Defense Initiative (STAR WARS) and the Soviets were told by their scientists that it was possible to create. you will see today that with the Patriot missile system, Star Wars is coming to fruition.
This caused the Soviets to react, and begin development of their counter measures and they had to increase their military spending.
Now on to the economic front. The USSR had all the oil they could pump, but it cost about $26/bbl to produce. With Crude about $30/bbl life was good and the money came rolling in. In 1987, Reagan got the Saudis to up crude production, and the price of crude bottomed out around $13/bbl. It hurt Texas and Oklahoma, but wiped out the USSR. No way to pump their crap for less than $26/bbl. they were out of business and THAT's how Reagan beat the Soviet Union.
So what has Trump been up to the past month, you bitching geniuses? Well let me see:
What has he got the Saudis doing? (deja vu)
Quote
Oil Falls on Prospect of Supply Boost, But Market's `Nervous' By Jessica Summers and Erin Douglas July 1, 2018, 7:55 PM EDT Updated on July 2, 2018, 4:10 PM EDT
Crude declined after U.S. President Donald Trump put pressure on Saudi Arabia to ramp up oil output, with traders worrying about how it could affect spare capacity ahead.
Let's see what he's doing with Europe:
Quote
Trump Roils NATO Allies With Calls to Double Military Spending U.S. leader urges allies to double target to 4% while questioning the alliance’s value and bashing Germany for its support of a Russia gas deal
What to Expect From NATO's Summit in Brussels
The NATO summit in Brussels will take place amid tense relationships within the alliance. The Wall Street Journal's Gerald F. Seib looks at what to expect. Photo: Getty By Rebecca Ballhaus, Valentina Pop and Laurence Norman Updated July 11, 2018 6:50 p.m. ET BRUSSELS—President Donald Trump pressed allies to double their military spending target to 4% of GDP, while questioning NATO’s value and bashing Germany for supporting a gas deal with Russia.
After attacking North Atlantic Treaty Organization leaders for months for not meeting a 2% spending target, Mr. Trump said on Wednesday that amount was too low.
Let's take alook about how Eastern Europe saw the NATO Summit:
Quote
Trump's tough NATO talk plays well on eastern flank By: VANESSA GERA, Associated Press
Updated: Jul 12, 2018 - 12:03 PM
Trump's tough NATO talk plays well on eastern flank
BRUSSELS (AP) - While President Donald Trump's hectoring at the NATO summit alarmed many in the West, his message was mostly embraced Thursday along the alliance's eastern flank - the region that feels most threatened by an assertive Russia. From Poland and the tiny Baltic states down to Romania, eastern leaders welcomed Trump's push for members of the 29-nation alliance to spend more on their militaries, something they have sought following Russian incursions in Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014.
After all, they had been under Moscow's thumb for decades after World War II.
Content Continues Below On the first day of the summit, Trump lambasted his partners for not spending their fair share on defense and asked on Twitter: "What good is NATO if Germany is paying Russia billions of dollars for gas and energy?"
But by the time the summit concluded Thursday he was praising NATO as "very unified, very strong." "He came, he saw, he conquered," declared Poland's state-run broadcaster TVP in an opinion piece. "Contrary to criticism and fears, Trump's brutally sincere behavior has not broken NATO's unity but has mobilized its members to further action that strengthened the organization."
Linas Linkevicius, the foreign minister of Lithuania, wrote on Twitter: "?Strength is a choice, not a given. Once again #NATOSummit bring us closer & stronger. We are resolute, committed to mutual defense, fair burden sharing."
NATO member Estonia noted that a Russian military aircraft even violated its airspace Thursday near the Baltic Sea island of Vaindloo, the second such alleged incident this week and the third in a month.
Many in the region also welcomed Trump's opening salvo when he lashed out at Germany's pursuit of a gas pipeline venture with Russia, which Trump said made Berlin "captive" to Russia.
That message echoed fears that have long been expressed by leaders in the Baltic states and Poland. They fear the gas pipeline will make Europe more dependent on Russian energy, giving Moscow more political leverage over the continent. Poland's prime minister has even called it a "new hybrid weapon."
The countries on the eastern flank also stressed that, despite the divisions, the achievements of the summit in Brussels made them safer. These include opening accession talks with Macedonia and formally signing off on a plan that would improve the alliance's ability to deploy faster in case of an attack. The plan ensures that NATO could deploy 30 land battalions, 30 ships and 30 warplane squadrons at a 30-day notice.
Romanian President Klaus Iohannis, whose Black Sea nation also feels vulnerable with Russia's resurgence, said he saw "no danger" of NATO breaking up.
"There isn't a conflict," he said. "Trump said things plainly, as is normal between friends and allies."
So now I will challenge some of you low IQ bitchmasters to take a look at these two periods of history and compare and contrast.
1980's Reagan upped military spending, forced the Ruskies to do the same, and then cut their legs out from under them by dropping the price on their only viable export - OIL and NG. The USSR crumbled. The Iron Curtain fell and it fell quickly. Germany reunited. Poland is now one of our stanchest allies. It was all unheard of in 1980. A decade later, we win!
2018 - Trump puts emphasis on military spending. Trump puts emphasis on domestic energy production. Trump gets Saudis to increase production. Trump makes friends with countries in Eastern Europe nearest to Russia. Trump demands NATO spend more on military.
Do you now see what is going on? Some of you very same people that have wet dreams about Reagan can't see that Trump is using the Reagan playbook, one that was incredibly successful to pressure Putin and the USSR. Trump doesn't need to threaten Putin. Trump doesn't need to confront Putin. Trump doesn't need to "stand up to Putin" Trump has Putin by the balls. If the price of oil and NG drops below the price that Russia can produce it, they are out of business.
Why do you think that Trump has been pushing shipping our NG to Europe? It's not all about jobs. Some but not all. Why do you think that Trump is livid at Merkel and Germany about their own private NG pipeline under the Baltic with Russia? Trump is trying to crush Putin's balls economically and Merkel is giving him a lifeline. Trump is willing to practically GIVE NG to Europe if it weakens Russia, and the damn Germans are giving Putin economic mouth to mouth resuscitation.
Chew on that and come back and tell how Trump should have been bolder with Putin and nicer to our allies. Phouc no! Our "allies" need to get in line and play right. There is an opportunity here to transform the world and make it better just like it happened in the 1980s. It's time for Putin to go, and it's time for Russia to reform once again. The only way to make it happen to to cripple them economically, and they will demand a change at the top. It is all there for the taking.
Damn straight Trump probably dog cussed Merkel, May, and Macron to their faces. They are wasting a Golden Opportunity. No other country and certainly no other World leader can make this happen except Trump and they are impeding a proven formula for taking the Russian down.
As for not playing Macho Man with Vlad? Vlad can read a spread sheet. Unlike most of YOU, he knows the Saudis have increase oil production. He knows crude is no longer at $100/bbl. He know we are fracking and producing the [bleep] out of oil and NG. He knows we are willing to GIVE it to Europe. Putin knows that NATO spending is going up. He knows that Poland and the Ukraine have leaned to the West and the US. AND PUTIN KNOWS WHO HAS MADE ALL OF THIS HAPPEN. He knows it ain't Hillary Rodham Clinton in the White House.
Some of you will go to sleep tonight all phoucing depressed, thinking that Trump has pussed out, and Vlad has more hair on his ass than Donald. Not me, I'm sleeping well. I'm sleeping well because I can recognize the plan at work. I recognize this is the exact same plan that worked for Reagan. I know that if Merkel, May and the rest of the Euroweenies get on board, Putin is toast and so are a lot of the World's problems. So of you will also realize this and stop bitching.
You might also get to the point where you start to understand that Trump uses economics both as a carrot and a stick. He puts the screws to Lil Kim, and gets him talking. Tells him that NK can either wither on the vine, or grow and get rich and TRUMP holds the keys to both. For Putin, he DOESN'T WANT TO NEGOTIATE WITH PUTIN! Trump wants Putin OUT OF OFFICE and the way to make that happen permanently is to cripple the Russian econimy to the point that either Vlad gives in or the Russian people throw him out.
Trump and Putin puts pressure and exposes our deep state and George Soros and others.
MAGA
Don't forget- Trumps loves his country.
I saw the press conference. The answers from Putin and Trump were sometimes off topic to the questions asked. Trump and Putin had their own agenda for the press conference. Trump with democraps and Hilary directly. Putin mentioning Soros by name. There are big issues for this world, but Trump and Putin have a plan.
Love you Trump bashers! Yeah, I just love some of this analysis I'm reading from both sides. "Trump showed weakness - Trump embarrassed us - Trump screwed up blah blah blah"
Listen up you politically ignorant and naive idiots. You might learn something. (Trolls, GFY right now. Don't waste my time)
Insightful as usual Jeff. I'm aware of some activities WRT cyber and these indictments of Russian meddlers in the election are not over . There is going to be some interesting fallout. Smart of him to use Justice as this weapon.
I'm sure that what is said in private at conferences such as the Trump-Putin one, are much different than what's said in public........it always is. Trump may very well have told Putin something to the affect that we know you meddled in our election, you know you did, and you know that we know you did, but we're going to let it slide if..........if you will do this, or of you will do that.
I'm 68 years old, and I very well remember the Cold War and public enemy number one........the Soviet Union. I also remember the breakup of the Soviet Union and the former Communist Bloc, and what a relief it was to have that threat removed. But, just as the Soviet Union was not our friend them, neither is Russia OR Putin our friend now, despite what many here believe. The United States will always be standing in Russia's way of doing whatever it wants, at least in the thinking of Putin and the Russians. While I have respect for Putin and his hardline stance against Muslims and the queers, that's pretty much it. He is former KGB, and those people were trained to be a different breed of cat.
As I said, in private Trump may very well have told Putin off in private. We will probably never know what all was discussed. My biggest problem with this thing is that pretty much everybody knows Russia did meddle in our election, and that in itself is nothing really earth shattering, as we've been doing the same thing all over the world for many years. All countries spy on each other, even though they are allies, and if they can influence that country into seeing things from their point of view, they do that as well. Our intelligence agencies all say Russia did it, and I for one, believe they are telling the truth. It makes me wonder why Trump keeps denying it.
I don't care whether Russia did or not, as the defeat of Hillary was our goal, and that was accomplished. However, I don't think Trump is helping himself one bit by throwing our intelligence people under the bus. The day might come when he'll need them.
, that being aside it was wholly Gorbachev's policies and those results that brought about the dissolving of the Soviet Republics.
Phil
The moron continues to try and outdo himself and he succeeds. Well, there is that, Phil, you are good at showing how you can surpass yourself on the art of being stupid. Even a moron (backed by facts of course) KNOWS, the Reagan buildup and the Soviet attempt to keep up was the straw that broke the camel's back. Star Wars was PURELY psy-war and everybody, except for the most stupid among us (you know, like YOU Phil) knew it was a ruse to make the paranoid Soviets spend even MORE money. Keep up the fair work, phil and some day you just might make it up a level to imbecile status...
Hat, ur burning too many calories on this. Those that care do. Those that don’t wont.
Yeah, I'm being too hard on the guys here under 50. They weren't around in those days, so I can't expect them to remember this stuff. The most vociferous of the Trump bitchers though, are over 50 and just don't phoucing pay attention.
I also need to run a parallel thread that is 2 paragraphs long for the short attention spanners here.
Hey, Trump bitchers! Remember when Reagan had NATO deploy Pershing II missiles in Europe and the Soviets [bleep] all over themselves? Remember when the Euroweenies protested and burned Reagan in effigy? Have you read where declassified USSR documents show those protests where organized and funded by the Communist Party?
No, didn't think so. That put military pressure on the USSR. Did you know NATO is doing war games in Poland and the Ukraine this year? All to put military pressure on the Russians.
No your not. Its just not the under 50 crowd only. I’m 35 and have argued this point for awhile. Ever draw the parallels between Crimea and the BRIX Nation deal? The over 50 crowd doesn’t get it either m. While the younger crowd might not have been old enough to remember there isn’t an excuse for the over 50 crowd.
Reagan other than his speech and supposed challenge had little to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union, In fact he wasn't even President at the time... also a lot of what later has been credited to Reagan was actually Bush Sr., that being aside it was wholly Gorbachev's policies and those results that brought about the dissolving of the Soviet Republics. Star-Wars was a total failure at the time and for many years after though it did result in quite a few technological breakthroughs far down the line... but by then Regan, Gorbachev and the Soviet Union were long gone and had nothing to do with the Soviet dissolvement and/or the collapse of the wall, which was I believe 9 Nov, 1989 nearly a year after Reagan leaving office
Your post is pure BS!
Phil
Youre a dumbassed liar. You werent worried when zero gave his bend us over message to Vlad. Rmember, re election tampering. Zero to Putin to "Stoppit". Ha. Scared Vlad, huh. Then Zero gave them the Crimea.
You havent the brains to believe what you see. You trust the msm to give it to you straight. They are, right in your ass. They have gotten you to support everything detrimental to this country. Remember, our diversity makes us stronger, not being united.
How about the bombing of Syrian Chemical Storage aka Test of the Russian more smile defense system? Did a nice job demonstrating to our Allies that there was not much to fear with their propaganda on shooting down every missile. I think all hit or 98% something like that. That gives the Allies and Fence Sitters something tangible to think about.
As usual Hatari has another excellent post. I’m under 50 and remember Reagan and Star Wars quite well but politics always interested me.
Thanks for another great post. 👍
Remember the lieberals and progressive dumb fughks like gayghost back then saying Reagan was nuts. Star Wars was a derogatory term. They said it would never work. They said you cant shoot down a missile with another missle. Freaking quueerr weeping numb nut nannies.
Reagan other than his speech and supposed challenge had little to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union, In fact he wasn't even President at the time... also a lot of what later has been credited to Reagan was actually Bush Sr., that being aside it was wholly Gorbachev's policies and those results that brought about the dissolving of the Soviet Republics. Star-Wars was a total failure at the time and for many years after though it did result in quite a few technological breakthroughs far down the line... but by then Regan, Gorbachev and the Soviet Union were long gone and had nothing to do with the Soviet dissolvement and/or the collapse of the wall, which was I believe 9 Nov, 1989 nearly a year after Reagan leaving office
Your post is pure BS!
Phil
Youre a dumbassed liar. You werent worried when zero gave his bend us over message to Vlad. Rmember, re election tampering. Zero to Putin to "Stoppit". Ha. Scared Vlad, huh. Then Zero gave them the Crimea.
You havent the brains to believe what you see. You trust the msm to give it to you straight. They are, right in your ass. They have gotten you to support everything detrimental to this country. Remember, our diversity makes us stronger, not being united.
Go tell that to China.
Originally Posted by Greyghost
Reagan other than his speech and supposed challenge had little to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union, In fact he wasn't even President at the time... also a lot of what later has been credited to Reagan was actually Bush Sr., that being aside it was wholly Gorbachev's policies and those results that brought about the dissolving of the Soviet Republics. Star-Wars was a total failure at the time and for many years after though it did result in quite a few technological breakthroughs far down the line... but by then Regan, Gorbachev and the Soviet Union were long gone and had nothing to do with the Soviet dissolvement and/or the collapse of the wall, which was I believe 9 Nov, 1989 nearly a year after Reagan leaving office
Your post is pure BS!
Phil
You think the Dr is stupid or a liar? Id like to know what you do for a living.
His dreams are apparently more intelligent than you grandest schemes. When are you going to tell us how open borders and muzzie immigration are going to help us. You havent an iq high enough to support your position. You just know its best because the msm is so much smarter than you and they say it is. Your too stupid to believe the truth when you hear it.
What do you do for a living, besides swallow BS? Why dont you go to Japan or Saudi Arabia and tell them they should try open borders and muzzie immigration?
Oh, try to ask a kid to make your response something more intelligent than, "your post is BS".
I can respond to Eastern European partners in NATO (USA). Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Romania,..... are to USA (NATO) what Poland and Greece were to Great Britain in late 30s. Poland was thrown by Britain under dump truck driven by Hitler loaded by Stalin (in the Battle of Britain German bombers carried Soviet fuel in their tanks) while Greece was thrown under dump truck by British that was being driven by Hitler and leaded by Mussolini. In oder to keep influence in Europe the USA needs to keep two key allies apart Germany (the so called EU) and Russia. The issue of supplying gas is part of that attempt at separation. The goal is obvious to have Russia join USA against China while keeping USA relevant in Europe at minimum cost.
I Poland was thrown by Britain under dump truck driven by Hitler loaded by Stalin (in the Battle of Britain German bombers carried Soviet fuel in their tanks) while Greece was thrown under dump truck by British that was being driven by Hitler and leaded by Mussolini.
Really? The Brits went to war over Poland and invested (and lost) considerable men and materiel in the defense of Greece. Your dumphuctitude is impressive...
Not understanding the under 50 comment. Seems to be Gen X and younger that support the president the most.
The under 50 crowd wasn't really at an age where they could either understand the Ragan years, or were not alive then. I have know reason to to criticize them for not remembering those events.
The 3 "superpowers".............USA, Russia, China......we helped them both in WW2. We helped the Soviets fight the Germans, and helped China fight the Japs. Five years after WW2 ended, we fought against both of them in Korea. How soon they forgot!!
Neither will ever be our ally, in the sense of the word that Britain or Canada has been, and it's somewhat ludicrous for us to ever think so. We'll use them if we can, and they'll use us. That's just how the world works.
I Poland was thrown by Britain under dump truck driven by Hitler loaded by Stalin (in the Battle of Britain German bombers carried Soviet fuel in their tanks) while Greece was thrown under dump truck by British that was being driven by Hitler and leaded by Mussolini.
Really? The Brits went to war over Poland and invested (and lost) considerable men and materiel in the defense of Greece. Your dumphuctitude is impressive...
No. They invested (and lost) considerable men and material to help save themselves. When they ran out of countries in Europe to do their fighting for them they turned to the United States. Sadly the Poles are making the same mistake today. If Russia ever moved West their people would be sacrificed in the fist wave and their country would become nuclear wasteland. This is something that should be avoided at all costs. Inviting NATO troops on their soil is as stupid as it would be for Mexico or Canada to invite Chinese forces to come over to protect them form the United States. Obviously this would have exactly opposite effect to what was intended.
Reagan other than his speech and supposed challenge had little to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union, In fact he wasn't even President at the time... also a lot of what later has been credited to Reagan was actually Bush Sr., that being aside it was wholly Gorbachev's policies and those results that brought about the dissolving of the Soviet Republics. Star-Wars was a total failure at the time and for many years after though it did result in quite a few technological breakthroughs far down the line... but by then Regan, Gorbachev and the Soviet Union were long gone and had nothing to do with the Soviet dissolvement and/or the collapse of the wall, which was I believe 9 Nov, 1989 nearly a year after Reagan leaving office
Your post is pure BS!
Phil
You sir are at best delusional.....likely just a liberal dumba$$. Often it takes years for today’s policies to take full effect. Bush Sr......another “globalist” traitor to our Republic. How can a “supposed” military man, who swore an oath of allegiance to our Constitution be so “WRONG”? memtb
Reagan other than his speech and supposed challenge had little to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union, In fact he wasn't even President at the time... also a lot of what later has been credited to Reagan was actually Bush Sr., that being aside it was wholly Gorbachev's policies and those results that brought about the dissolving of the Soviet Republics. Star-Wars was a total failure at the time and for many years after though it did result in quite a few technological breakthroughs far down the line... but by then Regan, Gorbachev and the Soviet Union were long gone and had nothing to do with the Soviet dissolvement and/or the collapse of the wall, which was I believe 9 Nov, 1989 nearly a year after Reagan leaving office
I Poland was thrown by Britain under dump truck driven by Hitler loaded by Stalin (in the Battle of Britain German bombers carried Soviet fuel in their tanks) while Greece was thrown under dump truck by British that was being driven by Hitler and leaded by Mussolini.
Really? The Brits went to war over Poland and invested (and lost) considerable men and materiel in the defense of Greece. Your dumphuctitude is impressive...
No. They invested (and lost) considerable men and material to help save themselves. When they ran out of countries in Europe to do their fighting for them they turned to the United States. Sadly the Poles are making the same mistake today. If Russia ever moved West their people would be sacrificed in the fist wave and their country would become nuclear wasteland. This is something that should be avoided at all costs. Inviting NATO troops on their soil is as stupid as it would be for Mexico or Canada to invite Chinese forces to come over to protect them form the United States. Obviously this would have exactly opposite effect to what was intended.
Please stop, on second thought, don't. It's fun watching a history retard embarrass himself...
Reagan other than his speech and supposed challenge had little to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union, In fact he wasn't even President at the time... also a lot of what later has been credited to Reagan was actually Bush Sr., that being aside it was wholly Gorbachev's policies and those results that brought about the dissolving of the Soviet Republics. Star-Wars was a total failure at the time and for many years after though it did result in quite a few technological breakthroughs far down the line... but by then Reagan, Gorbachev and the Soviet Union were long gone and had nothing to do with the Soviet dissolvement and/or the collapse of the wall, which was I believe 9 Nov, 1989 nearly a year after Reagan leaving office
Your post is pure BS!
Phil
No Phil, my post is quite accurate. Those were the events that bankrupted the Soviet Union. Your post is pure Leftist contrarianism.
As for your timeline, the events that happened under Reagan set the stage for the collapse of the USSR that occurred under GHWB. The Strategic Defense Initiative was a long term plan that is seeing its fruition now. The Patriot Missile Defense System is the outgrowth of it. It took NASA 8 years to go from Kennedy's speech to Man on the Moon, it wasn't Nixon who started the Space Program, it was Kennedy who gave the Man on the Moon Speech May 25th, 1961. What day did Neal Armstrong set foot on the moon? July 21, 1969.
It is indisputable that Reagan reignited the Arms Race in attempt to force the Soviets in massive military spending to keep up. It is indisputable that Soviets main source of income was the export of oil and NG and it is indisputable that Reagan got the Saudis to increase production to the point that it became economically impossible for the USSR to profitably export energy. Without a source of income, there was no longer a way for them to prop up the Iron Curtain satellites and run its own economy. Your hero Gorby was quite candid about this.
So go ahead, bash Trump all you want. The Leftists bashed Reagan, and he won. I'm sure my little revelation probably gives you indigestion because you know it is accurate.
Since you seem to have an inquiring mind, I'll walk you back in time.
Phil, I could go on, but why don't you just let it rest right here, you are in over your head with me. I know you hate Trump, I know you are a Leftist Progressive and I know you enjoy your role as one of the Campfire's domestic imbed trolls. So be it.
Those pesky early days of WWII. With Great Britain and France also seeking permission for transit of troops thru Norway and Sweden to the relief of Finland to fight ,,,,,,,,
The Russkies!!
Well that combined anglo/franco task force did make it to Narvik, Norway instead! Nice port Narvik! Lots of fish oil and iron ore. There they at least Fought the Boche. Btw, one French unit, the 13eme Demi-Brigade de la Legion Entregere ( general composed of Red Spaniards and Jews) did push General Student and his merry band of Fallschrimjagers all the way to the Swedish frontier. But before Student could cross the border and become guest of the Swedish King, the Brits radioed the French and told them it was time to go home.
Do you now see what is going on? Some of you very same people that have wet dreams about Reagan can't see that Trump is using the Reagan playbook, one that was incredibly successful to pressure Putin and the USSR. Trump doesn't need to threaten Putin. Trump doesn't need to confront Putin. Trump doesn't need to "stand up to Putin" Trump has Putin by the balls. If the price of oil and NG drops below the price that Russia can produce it, they are out of business.
To be fair, Hillary might have been able to bankrupt them even quicker via required donations to the Clinton Foundation.
This is a bit of an oversimplification but, here's how I see the treatment NATO leaders vs. Putin over the last week.
NATO is kind of like family. For myself, I'm much more likely to be a lot more direct almost to the point of provocative with a family member than I am with say a neighbor.
Let's say that every time your brother/sister or very close friend visits, they bring a dog, the dog poops in your yard every time, but they never pick it up or make mention of it. Sooner or later, that's likely to elicit a fairly pointed message or heated discussion. Now, say there's someone who walks their dog past your home occasionally, and, occasionally, that dog craps in your yard and they don't always pick it up. That conversation is likely to start out quite differently and take a lot longer to escalate.
As I said, in private Trump may very well have told Putin off in private. We will probably never know what all was discussed. My biggest problem with this thing is that pretty much everybody knows Russia did meddle in our election, and that in itself is nothing really earth shattering, as we've been doing the same thing all over the world for many years. All countries spy on each other, even though they are allies, and if they can influence that country into seeing things from their point of view, they do that as well. Our intelligence agencies all say Russia did it, and I for one, believe they are telling the truth. It makes me wonder why Trump keeps denying it.
I don't care whether Russia did or not, as the defeat of Hillary was our goal, and that was accomplished. However, I don't think Trump is helping himself one bit by throwing our intelligence people under the bus. The day might come when he'll need them.
James, the problem is that the "intelligence community" has been infiltrated and weaponized by communists and they are being used to create this whole gigantic hoax about "Russian meddling and collusion" to create an issue. As you stated earlier, "all countries spy on each other", which everyone knows. Obama knew what was going on but was fine with it as long as he thought Hillary was going to win. I for one take anything I hear from the "intelligence community" with a giant grain of salt and Trump probably does as well with good reason. What "everyone knows" that is being put out by them might and probably is a load of crap.
Its pretty easy to see what is going on. Its pretty obvious at this point that they have nothing on Trump.....they have almost admitted it. But they can keep using the "investigation" to hinder him and keep the low IQ communists in their base riled up. Look at the situation with Putin. Because of this phony BS put out by the "intelligence community" Trump was put into a lose-lose situation. He could either go over there and shoot his mouth off at Putin which would have damaged relations with him further, or he could have done what he did or similar which puts him in the position of being criticized for "collusion".
If anyone wants to take something out of my OP (which is admittedly too long for consumption by most doubters), it should be this:
Trump has no desire to "negotiate" with Putin. there is no "negotiating" with Putin. Vlad is a hardcore despot and will NEVER do anything that does not clearly give him some advantage. Trump's plan is to cripple Russia economically and force Putin from power and hopefully sweep in reformers. Once that happens, Trump and the rest of the West can then attempt to negotiate with some leaders.
Explains why Trump isn't in Putin's face. He thinks Putin is irrelevant. It's not Putin that holds the key to US-Russia negations. It will be Putin's successor. Putin will not negotiate in good faith. This also explains why Trump is in Europe's face. He wants them to work the plan. Up NATO spending forcing the Russians to keep up, and don't buy their energy thereby starving them economically.
Hatari- Just shut up. You're defending the worst president in the history of America:
Some drink the kool-aid.....
I agree with everything Trump said.....and I believe the "intelligence agencies" (the same ones who co-ordinated the "Russian dossier" and reported Saddam had WMDs) are all in on the effort to oust Trump....
.....THE DEEP STATE IS ALIVE AND WELL IN THE U.S.A......
Where are Hillary and the DNC servers that were hacked??? Destroyed......WHY???
If anyone wants to take something out of my OP (which is admittly too long for consumption by most doubters), it should be this:
Trump has no desire to "negotiate" with Putin. there is no "negotiating" with Putin. Vlad is a hardcore despot and will NEVER do anything that does not clearly give him some advantage. Trump's plan is to cripple Russia economically and force Putin from power and hopefully sweep in reformers. Once taht happens, Trump and the rest of the West can then attempt to negotiate with some leaders.
Explains why Trump isn't in Putin's face. He thinks Putin is irrelevant. It's not Putin that holds the key to US-Russia negations. It will be Putin's successor. Putin will not negotiate in good faith. This also explains why Trump is in Europe's face. He wants them to work the plan. Up NATO spending forcing the Russians to keep up, and don't buy their energy thereby starving them economically.
I just don't agree. I think he wants to establish a good relationship with Russia, he knows the entire thing is a fabricated witch hunt concocted by the deep state,which includes our intelligence agencies.
So, he met with Putin and considers him credible, but not our agencies. Perfectly understandable after the bullschit of the last 2 years.
Trump is brutally honest and wasn't going to play stupid posturing word games with the media. He'll take the hit and heat because in the long run none of this faux outrage will matter one whit.
I simply don't believe there's some master plan in the works to bring down Putin, I just don't.
If anyone wants to take something out of my OP (which is admittedly too long for consumption by most doubters), it should be this:
Trump has no desire to "negotiate" with Putin. there is no "negotiating" with Putin. Vlad is a hardcore despot and will NEVER do anything that does not clearly give him some advantage. Trump's plan is to cripple Russia economically and force Putin from power and hopefully sweep in reformers. Once that happens, Trump and the rest of the West can then attempt to negotiate with some leaders.
Explains why Trump isn't in Putin's face. He thinks Putin is irrelevant. It's not Putin that holds the key to US-Russia negations. It will be Putin's successor. Putin will not negotiate in good faith. This also explains why Trump is in Europe's face. He wants them to work the plan. Up NATO spending forcing the Russians to keep up, and don't buy their energy thereby starving them economically.
hatari: I like what you posted and its so true too ! here`s another angle: if Putin testified on the 2016 election we might find out he tried to help Hillihag and we all know what will happen then Putin will commit suicide with a bullet in the back of his head. just say`n. keep posting great reading and accurate ! maybe some of these liberals on this site will figure it out ? Pete53
As I said, in private Trump may very well have told Putin off in private. We will probably never know what all was discussed. My biggest problem with this thing is that pretty much everybody knows Russia did meddle in our election, and that in itself is nothing really earth shattering, as we've been doing the same thing all over the world for many years. All countries spy on each other, even though they are allies, and if they can influence that country into seeing things from their point of view, they do that as well. Our intelligence agencies all say Russia did it, and I for one, believe they are telling the truth. It makes me wonder why Trump keeps denying it.
I don't care whether Russia did or not, as the defeat of Hillary was our goal, and that was accomplished. However, I don't think Trump is helping himself one bit by throwing our intelligence people under the bus. The day might come when he'll need them.
James, the problem is that the "intelligence community" has been infiltrated and weaponized by communists and they are being used to create this whole gigantic hoax about "Russian meddling and collusion" to create an issue. As you stated earlier, "all countries spy on each other", which everyone knows. Obama knew what was going on but was fine with it as long as he thought Hillary was going to win. I for one take anything I hear from the "intelligence community" with a giant grain of salt and Trump probably does as well with good reason. What "everyone knows" that is being put out by them might and probably is a load of crap.
Its pretty easy to see what is going on. Its pretty obvious at this point that they have nothing on Trump.....they have almost admitted it. But they can keep using the "investigation" to hinder him and keep the low IQ communists in their base riled up. Look at the situation with Putin. Because of this phony BS put out by the "intelligence community" Trump was put into a lose-lose situation. He could either go over there and shoot his mouth off at Putin which would have damaged relations with him further, or he could have done what he did or similar which puts him in the position of being criticized for "collusion".
And let us not forget, it was this same intelligence community, headed by the likes of the communist Brennan, who used the fake dossier as the basis for all this mess...
The fact of the matter is,...because of neocon meddling all over the globe, Russia has a healthier relationship with the world that America does at this point.
I'm sure that what is said in private at conferences such as the Trump-Putin one, are much different than what's said in public........it always is. Trump may very well have told Putin something to the affect that we know you meddled in our election, you know you did, and you know that we know you did, but we're going to let it slide if..........if you will do this, or of you will do that.
I'm 68 years old, and I very well remember the Cold War and public enemy number one........the Soviet Union. I also remember the breakup of the Soviet Union and the former Communist Bloc, and what a relief it was to have that threat removed. But, just as the Soviet Union was not our friend them, neither is Russia OR Putin our friend now, despite what many here believe. The United States will always be standing in Russia's way of doing whatever it wants, at least in the thinking of Putin and the Russians. While I have respect for Putin and his hardline stance against Muslims and the queers, that's pretty much it. He is former KGB, and those people were trained to be a different breed of cat.
As I said, in private Trump may very well have told Putin off in private. We will probably never know what all was discussed. My biggest problem with this thing is that pretty much everybody knows Russia did meddle in our election, and that in itself is nothing really earth shattering, as we've been doing the same thing all over the world for many years. All countries spy on each other, even though they are allies, and if they can influence that country into seeing things from their point of view, they do that as well. Our intelligence agencies all say Russia did it, and I for one, believe they are telling the truth. It makes me wonder why Trump keeps denying it.
I don't care whether Russia did or not, as the defeat of Hillary was our goal, and that was accomplished. However, I don't think Trump is helping himself one bit by throwing our intelligence people under the bus. The day might come when he'll need them.
The way the question from the reporter as the Trump/Putin news conference Trump was forced to call Putin a "Liar" which he did not want to do in front of the media. WhileTrump did not respond properly to the question asked by the reporter..... this latest gaffe by Trump will eventually blow over.
Trump didn't piss in Putin's eyes because he just handed him hard evidence to hang Hillary, Obama, Soros' and the lot?
We have all the evidence we will ever need to convict Obama, Hillary , and all of their sycophants. What is lacking to the political power. If we win in the midterm election there will be more power gained and the ability rapidly collect more power still. A second Trump term with a solid conservative majority in both houses is what it will take to win the cold civil war we’re in.
If anyone wants to take something out of my OP (which is admittedly too long for consumption by most doubters), it should be this:
Trump has no desire to "negotiate" with Putin. there is no "negotiating" with Putin. Vlad is a hardcore despot and will NEVER do anything that does not clearly give him some advantage. Trump's plan is to cripple Russia economically and force Putin from power and hopefully sweep in reformers. Once that happens, Trump and the rest of the West can then attempt to negotiate with some leaders.
Explains why Trump isn't in Putin's face. He thinks Putin is irrelevant. It's not Putin that holds the key to US-Russia negations. It will be Putin's successor. Putin will not negotiate in good faith. This also explains why Trump is in Europe's face. He wants them to work the plan. Up NATO spending forcing the Russians to keep up, and don't buy their energy thereby starving them economically.
Your OP was very good, Jeff, but this summary is more usefuller... at least for the "four legs good, two legs bad" crowd. I copied/pasted/edited this and posted it on my sister's facebook page. I expect her Canadian communist friends' heads are exploding as I type this post.
My only quibble with you is that I'm not sure he is looking to destabilize Putin to force regime change as much as destabilize to force cooperation. Putin may be more useful to the West if he stays in power than if he's forced out by moderates. The value of a Strongman in a rogue state has been proven time and again (Iran under the Shah, Libya under Ghaddafi, etc).
But either way, the goal is to hurt Putin/Russia, and hurt him badly. I can't be done with bombs and missiles, we don't want to provoke WW3... but it can be done the same way Reagan did it.
Either way it's pretty much brilliant.
And I have to say that GG and piddle-in-his-pants have been highly entertaining on this thread. As BB would say of each of them, "What a maroon!"
Trump didn't piss in Putin's eyes because he just handed him hard evidence to hang Hillary, Obama, Soros' and the lot?
We have all the evidence we will ever need to convict Obama, Hillary , and all of their sycophants. What is lacking to the political power. If we win in the midterm election there will be more power gained and the ability rapidly collect more power still. A second Trump term with a solid conservative majority in both houses is what it will take to win the cold civil war we’re in.
All the power in the world is useless if they don't have the will to make it happen. Getting the right people in place that are more than willing to clean house is what it's going to take.
Trump didn't piss in Putin's eyes because he just handed him hard evidence to hang Hillary, Obama, Soros' and the lot?
We have all the evidence we will ever need to convict Obama, Hillary , and all of their sycophants. What is lacking to the political power. If we win in the midterm election there will be more power gained and the ability rapidly collect more power still. A second Trump term with a solid conservative majority in both houses is what it will take to win the cold civil war we’re in.
All the power in the world is useless if they don't have the will to make it happen. Getting the right people in place that are more than willing to clean house is what it's going to take.
To weed out the senior service and get the right people in place takes a lot of political power.
[ Your OP was very good, Jeff, but this summary is more usefuller... at least for the "four legs good, two legs bad" crowd. I copied/pasted/edited this and posted it on my sister's facebook page. I expect her Canadian communist friends' heads are exploding as I type this post.
My only quibble with you is that I'm not sure he is looking to destabilize Putin to force regime change as much as destabilize to force cooperation. Putin may be more useful to the West if he stays in power than if he's forced out by moderates. The value of a Strongman in a rogue state has been proven time and again (Iran under the Shah, Libya under Ghaddafi, etc).
But either way, the goal is to hurt Putin/Russia, and hurt him badly. I can't be done with bombs and missiles, we don't want to provoke WW3... but it can be done the same way Reagan did it.
Either way it's pretty much brilliant.
And I have to say that GG and piddle-in-his-pants have been highly entertaining on this thread. As BB would say of each of them, "What a maroon!"
Doc,
I'm not 100% certain that Trump's goal is to totally take out Putin in the same manner Reagan wanted to take out the Communist leadership, but let's settle for the fact he wouldn't cry if it happened. I do beleive that Trump looks for leverage in any negotiation, and when he doesn't have it, he creates it. The threat of economic ruin along with the competition in the form of military spending is not something that Putin really wants to get into. Putin is at a disadvantage there.
Trump didn't piss in Putin's eyes because he just handed him hard evidence to hang Hillary, Obama, Soros' and the lot?
We have all the evidence we will ever need to convict Obama, Hillary , and all of their sycophants. What is lacking to the political power. If we win in the midterm election there will be more power gained and the ability rapidly collect more power still. A second Trump term with a solid conservative majority in both houses is what it will take to win the cold civil war we’re in.
All the power in the world is useless if they don't have the will to make it happen. Getting the right people in place that are more than willing to clean house is what it's going to take.
To weed out the senior service and get the right people in place takes a lot of political power.
The grown ups on here are trying to have a discussion. There's more gold ( boogers) up hiding op in your nose. You didn't mine and eat all of it yet. Why don't you go back to your filthy little hovel and start mining for it with your dirty fingers while the adults on here continue their intelligent conversation.
Originally Posted by Paddler
Originally Posted by hatari
Love you Trump bashers! Yeah, I just love some of this analysis I'm reading from both sides. "Trump showed weakness - Trump embarrassed us - Trump screwed up blah blah blah"
Listen up you politically ignorant and naive idiots. You might learn something. (Trolls, GFY right now. Don't waste my time)
How did Reagan REALLY defeat the USSR? Do you really know? I bet not one you paid attention then or has thought about it since. This is going to need to be the short version. PM me is you want the long version.
Reagan hated communists! (Great man that he was) He wanted to kill off the Soviet Union. No way to nuke it out with them so he decided to bankrupt them. That was tough to do , as they were pumping oil, building a big ass NG pipeline into Western Europe, and were going to be making money hand over fist with the price of crude some where in the neighbor of $30/bbl.
Now, the USSR had just spend a butt load of money screwing around in Afghanistan (GWB apparently slept through that history lesson), so were cash short, but prospects looked good for a bright economic future to enable them to continue the Cold War by proxy and fund Castro and Ortega and just about any other commie that could destabilize democracy in world and keep us busy fights them elsewhere.
Reagan's plan: 1.) Force them to spend more money on defense. It's expensive, and they have to keep up with us to remain a Superpower 2.) Cut off their money supply.
To make this as brief as possible, Reagan got appropriations to rebuild our military after Carter neglected it. He increased our navy and air force drastically from Carter years. Next, he got the plans for the anti ballistic missile defense - Strategic Defense Initiative (STAR WARS) and the Soviets were told by their scientists that it was possible to create. you will see today that with the Patriot missile system, Star Wars is coming to fruition.
This caused the Soviets to react, and begin development of their counter measures and they had to increase their military spending.
Now on to the economic front. The USSR had all the oil they could pump, but it cost about $26/bbl to produce. With Crude about $30/bbl life was good and the money came rolling in. In 1987, Reagan got the Saudis to up crude production, and the price of crude bottomed out around $13/bbl. It hurt Texas and Oklahoma, but wiped out the USSR. No way to pump their crap for less than $26/bbl. they were out of business and THAT's how Reagan beat the Soviet Union.
So what has Trump been up to the past month, you bitching geniuses? Well let me see:
What has he got the Saudis doing? (deja vu)
Quote
Oil Falls on Prospect of Supply Boost, But Market's `Nervous' By Jessica Summers and Erin Douglas July 1, 2018, 7:55 PM EDT Updated on July 2, 2018, 4:10 PM EDT
Crude declined after U.S. President Donald Trump put pressure on Saudi Arabia to ramp up oil output, with traders worrying about how it could affect spare capacity ahead.
Let's see what he's doing with Europe:
Quote
Trump Roils NATO Allies With Calls to Double Military Spending U.S. leader urges allies to double target to 4% while questioning the alliance’s value and bashing Germany for its support of a Russia gas deal
What to Expect From NATO's Summit in Brussels
The NATO summit in Brussels will take place amid tense relationships within the alliance. The Wall Street Journal's Gerald F. Seib looks at what to expect. Photo: Getty By Rebecca Ballhaus, Valentina Pop and Laurence Norman Updated July 11, 2018 6:50 p.m. ET BRUSSELS—President Donald Trump pressed allies to double their military spending target to 4% of GDP, while questioning NATO’s value and bashing Germany for supporting a gas deal with Russia.
After attacking North Atlantic Treaty Organization leaders for months for not meeting a 2% spending target, Mr. Trump said on Wednesday that amount was too low.
Let's take alook about how Eastern Europe saw the NATO Summit:
Quote
Trump's tough NATO talk plays well on eastern flank By: VANESSA GERA, Associated Press
Updated: Jul 12, 2018 - 12:03 PM
Trump's tough NATO talk plays well on eastern flank
BRUSSELS (AP) - While President Donald Trump's hectoring at the NATO summit alarmed many in the West, his message was mostly embraced Thursday along the alliance's eastern flank - the region that feels most threatened by an assertive Russia. From Poland and the tiny Baltic states down to Romania, eastern leaders welcomed Trump's push for members of the 29-nation alliance to spend more on their militaries, something they have sought following Russian incursions in Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014.
After all, they had been under Moscow's thumb for decades after World War II.
Content Continues Below On the first day of the summit, Trump lambasted his partners for not spending their fair share on defense and asked on Twitter: "What good is NATO if Germany is paying Russia billions of dollars for gas and energy?"
But by the time the summit concluded Thursday he was praising NATO as "very unified, very strong." "He came, he saw, he conquered," declared Poland's state-run broadcaster TVP in an opinion piece. "Contrary to criticism and fears, Trump's brutally sincere behavior has not broken NATO's unity but has mobilized its members to further action that strengthened the organization."
Linas Linkevicius, the foreign minister of Lithuania, wrote on Twitter: "?Strength is a choice, not a given. Once again #NATOSummit bring us closer & stronger. We are resolute, committed to mutual defense, fair burden sharing."
NATO member Estonia noted that a Russian military aircraft even violated its airspace Thursday near the Baltic Sea island of Vaindloo, the second such alleged incident this week and the third in a month.
Many in the region also welcomed Trump's opening salvo when he lashed out at Germany's pursuit of a gas pipeline venture with Russia, which Trump said made Berlin "captive" to Russia.
That message echoed fears that have long been expressed by leaders in the Baltic states and Poland. They fear the gas pipeline will make Europe more dependent on Russian energy, giving Moscow more political leverage over the continent. Poland's prime minister has even called it a "new hybrid weapon."
The countries on the eastern flank also stressed that, despite the divisions, the achievements of the summit in Brussels made them safer. These include opening accession talks with Macedonia and formally signing off on a plan that would improve the alliance's ability to deploy faster in case of an attack. The plan ensures that NATO could deploy 30 land battalions, 30 ships and 30 warplane squadrons at a 30-day notice.
Romanian President Klaus Iohannis, whose Black Sea nation also feels vulnerable with Russia's resurgence, said he saw "no danger" of NATO breaking up.
"There isn't a conflict," he said. "Trump said things plainly, as is normal between friends and allies."
So now I will challenge some of you low IQ bitchmasters to take a look at these two periods of history and compare and contrast.
1980's Reagan upped military spending, forced the Ruskies to do the same, and then cut their legs out from under them by dropping the price on their only viable export - OIL and NG. The USSR crumbled. The Iron Curtain fell and it fell quickly. Germany reunited. Poland is now one of our stanchest allies. It was all unheard of in 1980. A decade later, we win!
2018 - Trump puts emphasis on military spending. Trump puts emphasis on domestic energy production. Trump gets Saudis to increase production. Trump makes friends with countries in Eastern Europe nearest to Russia. Trump demands NATO spend more on military.
Do you now see what is going on? Some of you very same people that have wet dreams about Reagan can't see that Trump is using the Reagan playbook, one that was incredibly successful to pressure Putin and the USSR. Trump doesn't need to threaten Putin. Trump doesn't need to confront Putin. Trump doesn't need to "stand up to Putin" Trump has Putin by the balls. If the price of oil and NG drops below the price that Russia can produce it, they are out of business.
Why do you think that Trump has been pushing shipping our NG to Europe? It's not all about jobs. Some but not all. Why do you think that Trump is livid at Merkel and Germany about their own private NG pipeline under the Baltic with Russia? Trump is trying to crush Putin's balls economically and Merkel is giving him a lifeline. Trump is willing to practically GIVE NG to Europe if it weakens Russia, and the damn Germans are giving Putin economic mouth to mouth resuscitation.
Chew on that and come back and tell how Trump should have been bolder with Putin and nicer to our allies. Phouc no! Our "allies" need to get in line and play right. There is an opportunity here to transform the world and make it better just like it happened in the 1980s. It's time for Putin to go, and it's time for Russia to reform once again. The only way to make it happen to to cripple them economically, and they will demand a change at the top. It is all there for the taking.
Damn straight Trump probably dog cussed Merkel, May, and Macron to their faces. They are wasting a Golden Opportunity. No other country and certainly no other World leader can make this happen except Trump and they are impeding a proven formula for taking the Russian down.
As for not playing Macho Man with Vlad? Vlad can read a spread sheet. Unlike most of YOU, he knows the Saudis have increase oil production. He knows crude is no longer at $100/bbl. He know we are fracking and producing the [bleep] out of oil and NG. He knows we are willing to GIVE it to Europe. Putin knows that NATO spending is going up. He knows that Poland and the Ukraine have leaned to the West and the US. AND PUTIN KNOWS WHO HAS MADE ALL OF THIS HAPPEN. He knows it ain't Hillary Rodham Clinton in the White House.
Some of you will go to sleep tonight all phoucing depressed, thinking that Trump has pussed out, and Vlad has more hair on his ass than Donald. Not me, I'm sleeping well. I'm sleeping well because I can recognize the plan at work. I recognize this is the exact same plan that worked for Reagan. I know that if Merkel, May and the rest of the Euroweenies get on board, Putin is toast and so are a lot of the World's problems. So of you will also realize this and stop bitching.
You might also get to the point where you start to understand that Trump uses economics both as a carrot and a stick. He puts the screws to Lil Kim, and gets him talking. Tells him that NK can either wither on the vine, or grow and get rich and TRUMP holds the keys to both. For Putin, he DOESN'T WANT TO NEGOTIATE WITH PUTIN! Trump wants Putin OUT OF OFFICE and the way to make that happen permanently is to cripple the Russian econimy to the point that either Vlad gives in or the Russian people throw him out.
Reagan other than his speech and supposed challenge had little to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union, In fact he wasn't even President at the time... also a lot of what later has been credited to Reagan was actually Bush Sr., that being aside it was wholly Gorbachev's policies and those results that brought about the dissolving of the Soviet Republics. Star-Wars was a total failure at the time and for many years after though it did result in quite a few technological breakthroughs far down the line... but by then Regan, Gorbachev and the Soviet Union were long gone and had nothing to do with the Soviet dissolvement and/or the collapse of the wall, which was I believe 9 Nov, 1989 nearly a year after Reagan leaving office
Your post is pure BS!
Phil
So Reagan had nothing to do with the dissolution of the USSR? BS yourself!
It seems peculiar to me that people would think that destroying Putin would be one of Trump's priorities when he's got all that he can do to prevent America from collapsing because of internal rot and a constant barrage of attacks on western culture from the globalists.
As for the possibility of putting Russia in economic straits buy out spending them militarily,..that ship sailed a long time ago. The U.S. annually allocates 700 billion dollars to military spending even though the country is 21 trillion dollars in debt.
Russia spends 1/10 of that amount on it's military.
Bottom line,...Putin has fuggall to do with America's problems.
If anyone wants to take something out of my OP (which is admittedly too long for consumption by most doubters), it should be this:
Trump has no desire to "negotiate" with Putin. there is no "negotiating" with Putin. Vlad is a hardcore despot and will NEVER do anything that does not clearly give him some advantage. Trump's plan is to cripple Russia economically and force Putin from power and hopefully sweep in reformers. Once that happens, Trump and the rest of the West can then attempt to negotiate with some leaders.
Explains why Trump isn't in Putin's face. He thinks Putin is irrelevant. It's not Putin that holds the key to US-Russia negations. It will be Putin's successor. Putin will not negotiate in good faith. This also explains why Trump is in Europe's face. He wants them to work the plan. Up NATO spending forcing the Russians to keep up, and don't buy their energy thereby starving them economically.
Your OP was very good, Jeff, but this summary is more usefuller... at least for the "four legs good, two legs bad" crowd. I copied/pasted/edited this and posted it on my sister's facebook page. I expect her Canadian communist friends' heads are exploding as I type this post.
My only quibble with you is that I'm not sure he is looking to destabilize Putin to force regime change as much as destabilize to force cooperation. Putin may be more useful to the West if he stays in power than if he's forced out by moderates. The value of a Strongman in a rogue state has been proven time and again (Iran under the Shah, Libya under Ghaddafi, etc).
But either way, the goal is to hurt Putin/Russia, and hurt him badly. I can't be done with bombs and missiles, we don't want to provoke WW3... but it can be done the same way Reagan did it.
Either way it's pretty much brilliant.
And I have to say that GG and piddle-in-his-pants have been highly entertaining on this thread. As BB would say of each of them, "What a maroon!"
I can remember some of the 80's political harassment of Reagan, I was a bit young to understand it at that time, but completely grasp the love he had for his country, today.
It's a good thing to see the commies on this site still hate Reagan with a passion and I don't blame them. After all, he is the single source that destroyed the largest communist society in history. They hate him because he beat them...bigly!
I believe that Trump also loves his country and no one can dispute his desire to win.
It's a bit disturbing for me to see people on the right coming up with their own justifications for being hostile towards Russia.
It tells me that all of the nonsense being constantly spewed about Russian collusion with Trump during the election is having an effect even with Trump supporters.
It's a bit disturbing for me to see people on the right coming up with their own justifications for being hostile towards Russia.
It tells me that all of the nonsense being constantly spewed about Russian collusion with Trump during the election is having an effect even with Trump supporters.
It’s called linguistic imprinting. Obumbles used the same tactic of repeatedly telling a falsehood with the help of the msm 24 hrs a day and the weak minded fell for it both terms.
China obviously is our biggest security concern and this is a wonderful distraction for them
It seems peculiar to me that people would think that destroying Putin would be one of Trump's priorities when he's got all that he can do to prevent America from collapsing because of internal rot and a constant barrage of attacks on western culture from the globalists.
As for the possibility of putting Russia in economic straits buy out spending them militarily,..that ship sailed a long time ago. The U.S. annually allocates 700 billion dollars to military spending even though the country is 21 trillion dollars in debt.
Russia spends 1/10 of that amount on it's military.
Bottom line,...Putin has fuggall to do with America's problems.
I don't think Putin is even in the top ten of things we need to worry about. Going to DEFCON 1 because the rooskies "meddled in our election" would be a pretty funny story line if it didn't have so many people rolling around and speaking in tongues.
Note that the prices have been adjusted for inflation, but you will see that the price of crude dropped by 60% almost instantaneously back in 1986-87. Not coincidentally, the Saudis recieved advanced F-15 fighters and AWACS in 1987. Coincidence? I think not.
Gorby signed an agreement with Reagan in December 1987 to destory all stockpiles of intermediate range nuclear capable missles (Pershing II, anyone?) In 1988, Gorby withdrew from Afghanistan. Coincidence? I think not.
War is expensive. Arms races are expensive. Both are impossible when you have no money coming in.
Hatari is right, follow the money . See the thread on page 2 concerning Germany being slave to Russia. When the Israeli gas pipeline is completed to Europe, the big money squeeze on Russia will be in place. They’ll have to heel or go to war. That’s why all of Putin’s big talk about these so called indefensible hypersonic missiles is being hinted at. Putin sees this coming all too clearly. Problem for him is he has so few options to counteract with.
Further on gas to Europe, every time an LNG gas project of any significance is announced in the Mideast (Qatar, e.g.) Russia drops the gas price. Germany is and has been near brilliant in their business model for European gas supply. Europe is sitting well,,,Russia not so much.
Reagan other than his speech and supposed challenge had little to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union, In fact he wasn't even President at the time... also a lot of what later has been credited to Reagan was actually Bush Sr., that being aside it was wholly Gorbachev's policies and those results that brought about the dissolving of the Soviet Republics. Star-Wars was a total failure at the time and for many years after though it did result in quite a few technological breakthroughs far down the line... but by then Regan, Gorbachev and the Soviet Union were long gone and had nothing to do with the Soviet dissolvement and/or the collapse of the wall, which was I believe 9 Nov, 1989 nearly a year after Reagan leaving office
Your post is pure BS!
Phil
Youre a dumbassed liar. You werent worried when zero gave his bend us over message to Vlad. Rmember, re election tampering. Zero to Putin to "Stoppit". Ha. Scared Vlad, huh. Then Zero gave them the Crimea.
You havent the brains to believe what you see. You trust the msm to give it to you straight. They are, right in your ass. They have gotten you to support everything detrimental to this country. Remember, our diversity makes us stronger, not being united.
Go tell that to China.
How much did you spend to bring chaos to Ukraine? According to Nuland five or six billion? Russia has prevailed there and there is nothing you can do to change that. Historically Crimea has always been Russian and it's going to stay there. Syria has prevailed in Syria and they're going to be the ones "giving out the cards". Sure you can shoot down Russian plane or kill some Russian mercenaries, but that isn't going to change anything. How much money have you lost in Iraq and Afghanistan for almost no gain? When you realize predicament Americans are in it is easy to understand why American President is acting the way he has. What happened at NATO summit is easy to understand. For example, why should American taxpayer by paying to US Navy subsidize possibility of high seas trade for entire world? That is not fair and should not continue. If NATO members don't want to fulfill their obligations United States should develop other alliances and forget current partners. This is especially true now since American involvement in the Middle East affairs the Empire has no funds.
Hatari's post is cogent and accurate as to relevance to the situation we are facing today. I worked for a contractor that provided services to the DOD, DOE and the National Laboratories, We were based at the Nevada Test Site. I was involved w/ this from 1978-1991 and watched and participated in the transformation of the military, intelligence services and the defense establishment from the barely functional Carter years to the collapse of the Soviet Union.
SDI {star wars] was the real deal and scared the crap out of the Russians, our military buildup and development of anti missile systems was real, Pershing Missiles deployed in Europe was real. In 1988 I spent 110 days on the soviet test site in Kazakhstan working on the Joint Verification Experiment and personally observed the abysmal state of the Soviet military. Travelling frequently through Moscow revealed a standard of living striving for the 3rd world status, they were broke and their economy moribund, the locals called the nightly news "the famine report".
Today we have the opportunity to control the world's economy through massive energy production and control of prices and distribution. Russia's military, other than their nukes is pathetic w/out a base outside of Russia except Syria which has become an Albatross for them.
I believe CiC had a private meeting w/ Putin for a good reason and that he gave Putin a reality check and allowed him to salvage some dignity via the powder puff press conference.
Much of my undergraduate work in 87-88 went to SDI. real enough for me.
Of note regarding our IC and the coming out of the woodwork Congressmen and red tape slingers extolling how wrong trump is and that they have data to back up the soviet inteference assertion - none of them mentioned that Trump was in collusion with the Russkis.
Maybe they're just being contrary...That TDS makes people stupid.
Hatari's post is cogent and accurate as to relevance to the situation we are facing today. I worked for a contractor that provided services to the DOD, DOE and the National Laboratories, We were based at the Nevada Test Site. I was involved w/ this from 1978-1991 and watched and participated in the transformation of the military, intelligence services and the defense establishment from the barely functional Carter years to the collapse of the Soviet Union.
SDI {star wars] was the real deal and scared the crap out of the Russians, our military buildup and development of anti missile systems was real, Pershing Missiles deployed in Europe was real. In 1988 I spent 110 days on the soviet test site in Kazakhstan working on the Joint Verification Experiment and personally observed the abysmal state of the Soviet military. Travelling frequently through Moscow revealed a standard of living striving for the 3rd world status, they were broke and their economy moribund, the locals called the nightly news "the famine report".
Today we have the opportunity to control the world's economy through massive energy production and control of prices and distribution. Russia's military, other than their nukes is pathetic w/out a base outside of Russia except Syria which has become an Albatross for them.
I believe CiC had a private meeting w/ Putin for a good reason and that he gave Putin a reality check and allowed him to salvage some dignity via the powder puff press conference.
mike r
Irrelevant. While Russia is powerful and has to be considered in any restructuring of New World Order your number one enemy is China and the time is on their side.
I believe CiC had a private meeting w/ Putin for a good reason and that he gave Putin a reality check and allowed him to salvage some dignity via the powder puff press conference.
I believe CiC had a private meeting w/ Putin for a good reason and that he gave Putin a reality check and allowed him to salvage some dignity via the powder puff press conference.
Bank on it.
You guys can talk yourselves into believing anything.
I suspect that Pute told him how he was going to muck with the 2018 midterms and there isn't diddly that he better do about it or he will rat on ol' Donny and tell the world how Donny's only chance to win in 2106 (and 2020 for that matter) is with his help.
Meanwhile, Donny continues to plot to destroy America. He's got a good start on it, that's for sure.
New World Order....you silly slaves that rely on the power and courage of the American fighting man can pretend that you have an opinion but you’re nothing more than a hacky sack that is powerless to prevent getting kicked around at the will of despots.
You’d do yourself a favor by listening to and understanding Hatari’s posts as they’re factually correct and historically relevant.
Here comes another line o'chit from Leroy Beans, Beans don't make a mystery 'bout how he leans, This, that, the other things just makes him pissed! And the remedy for *him* is turnin' Communist.
Hatari's post is cogent and accurate as to relevance to the situation we are facing today. I worked for a contractor that provided services to the DOD, DOE and the National Laboratories, We were based at the Nevada Test Site. I was involved w/ this from 1978-1991 and watched and participated in the transformation of the military, intelligence services and the defense establishment from the barely functional Carter years to the collapse of the Soviet Union.
SDI {star wars] was the real deal and scared the crap out of the Russians, our military buildup and development of anti missile systems was real, Pershing Missiles deployed in Europe was real. In 1988 I spent 110 days on the soviet test site in Kazakhstan working on the Joint Verification Experiment and personally observed the abysmal state of the Soviet military. Travelling frequently through Moscow revealed a standard of living striving for the 3rd world status, they were broke and their economy moribund, the locals called the nightly news "the famine report".
Today we have the opportunity to control the world's economy through massive energy production and control of prices and distribution. Russia's military, other than their nukes is pathetic w/out a base outside of Russia except Syria which has become an Albatross for them.
I believe CiC had a private meeting w/ Putin for a good reason and that he gave Putin a reality check and allowed him to salvage some dignity via the powder puff press conference.
mike r
Irrelevant. While Russia is powerful and has to be considered in any restructuring of New World Order your number one enemy is China and the time is on their side.
How much oil does China produce? Who is their primary customer and the basis of their economy? China is a major strategic threat but it is better to engage one enemy at a time while the other observes projection of strength. China is not going anywhere and we need to show current and potential allies that alignment w/ our power is in their best interest. Nations do not have friends, only allies w/ common goals.
[ Irrelevant. While Russia is powerful and has to be considered in any restructuring of New World Order your number one enemy is China and the time is on their side.
Irrelevant? Come again?
It seems to me if the West can get a government and leadership in Russia that is willing to work together, that would form an incredibly strong alliance that can stand up to China both now, and in the future. Furthermore, we have the one thing that China does not have and will never have - energy! They have very little oil, coal or NG. We got them!
China has its own problems that will keep them busy for the next 20 years. Namely, they can no longer have an economy that is based on building roads, dams, bridges and factories. They have maxed that out. They are overbuilt. They are no longer a country of slave laborers riding bicycles. They people are demanding consumer goods, and they must switch their economy from a completely centralized program to a consumer driven economy. Communists aren't so good at that.
Brilliant analysis of the Trump strategy,and the military buildup has the added benefit of making military conflict too costly for China to pursue. And the idea of aggressive tariffs on China deprives them of capital while decreasing our own deficit due to the added tax revenues.
The whole thing makes much more sense than the media on the right or left will admit.
The trade imbalance with China is a similar strategy to that of dealing with Putin. Starve the Communists of capital. Reduce their income. Make them economize while filling our bank up. China will eventually want to play ball and the tariffs can come down.
Reagan other than his speech and supposed challenge had little to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union, In fact he wasn't even President at the time... also a lot of what later has been credited to Reagan was actually Bush Sr., that being aside it was wholly Gorbachev's policies and those results that brought about the dissolving of the Soviet Republics. Star-Wars was a total failure at the time and for many years after though it did result in quite a few technological breakthroughs far down the line... but by then Regan, Gorbachev and the Soviet Union were long gone and had nothing to do with the Soviet dissolvement and/or the collapse of the wall, which was I believe 9 Nov, 1989 nearly a year after Reagan leaving office
Your post is pure BS!
Phil
No it's not, It's truth but most of your's are BS with political bents. Just gotta tow that lieberal line, don't you. Truth and reality mean nothing to lieberals.
Here comes another line o'chit from Leroy Beans, Beans don't make a mystery 'bout how he leans, This, that, the other things just makes him pissed! And the remedy for *him* is turnin' Communist.
Trump just maintained he "misspoke". It validated my maintaining what he said was not good in the circumstance he said it. He changed the statement 180 degrees.
Good post, Hatari. I'm not sure if I agree with it completely, but your point about President Trump not allowing the media, liberals and neo-cons to push him into a public pissing match with Putin is a good call on our President's part. They want to drive the narrative, and use it control our President, and ultimately, us.
For a good laugh, look at the video of the very poorly acted indignation of the MSM. I couldn't stop laughing. They couldn't give two [bleep] about Russia or Putin, only in that they can use it to try to attack President Trump. What a joke.
Trump just maintained he "misspoke". It validated my maintaining what he said was not good in the circumstance he said it. He changed the statement 180 degrees.
So There...
Bitch appeasement is a valuable tool every once in a while. You play 3D chess?
There’s heads exploding all over the TV and innanet. As I predicted, my sister’s FB feed is exploding all over the place. I shouldn’t mess with their small minds...
Trump just maintained he "misspoke". It validated my maintaining what he said was not good in the circumstance he said it. He changed the statement 180 degrees.
So There...
Bitch appeasement is a valuable tool every once in a while. You play 3D chess?
Nahh...it's too easy.
I'm 100% behind Trump after being more than worried about his losing to Hillary. I was happy to be wrong, as I have been at other times. My crystal ball is old and not working well. No repair parts are available any longer.
I do see where calling Putin out at the press conference would serve no useful purpose. Saying less would have been much better than what he did say, IMO.
Trump just maintained he "misspoke". It validated my maintaining what he said was not good in the circumstance he said it. He changed the statement 180 degrees.
So There...
I'm ok with that. I'm ok with the allegation that it wasn't his best press conference or his shining moment. Can't always hit a home run. Personally, I wouldn't have used that platform to ridicule the American Press, Hillary, or the Democrats. That said, all of that is superfluous to the bigger picture. I stand by my analysis that Trump is using Reagan tactics to squeeze Putin and Russia economically. Trump always deals from a position of strength. Straight military strength isn't going to intimidate Putin. The thought of a new arms race and having Trump kill his energy exports will get Vlad's attention. As I offered previously, VBlad can read a spread sheet too. Vlad knows what happens to his economy if crude drops down into the $50/bbl range. No dinero, comrade!
Trump just maintained he "misspoke". It validated my maintaining what he said was not good in the circumstance he said it. He changed the statement 180 degrees.
So There...
I'm ok with that. I'm ok with the allegation that it wasn't his best press conference or his shining moment. Can't always hit a home run. Personally, I wouldn't have used that platform to ridicule the American Press, Hillary, or the Democrats. That said, all of that is superfluous to the bigger picture. I stand by my analysis that Trump is using Reagan tactics to squeeze Putin and Russia economically. Trump always deals from a position of strength. Straight military strength isn't going to intimidate Putin. The thought of a new arms race and having Trump kill his energy exports will get Vlad's attention. As I offered previously, VBlad can read a spread sheet too. Vlad knows what happens to his economy if crude drops down into the $50/bbl range. No dinero, comrade!
100% AGREEMENT, hat. We can bring their economy to their knees with our potential for all types of energy production. With their GDP being less than Italy's, they have BIG problems for a nation that claims "super-power" status.
Trump and Putin puts pressure and exposes our deep state and George Soros and others.
MAGA
Don't forget- Trumps loves his country.
I saw the press conference. The answers from Putin and Trump were sometimes off topic to the questions asked. Trump and Putin had their own agenda for the press conference. Trump with democraps and Hilary directly. Putin mentioning Soros by name. There are big issues for this world, but Trump and Putin have a plan.
First things first.
Yet again, another excellent post by hatari. Thank you. And some others here need to read this post here from Gibby one or two times again. Most telling. Oh, BTW, so good to have Piddler on ignore.
There’s heads exploding all over the TV and innanet. As I predicted, my sister’s FB feed is exploding all over the place. I shouldn’t mess with their small minds...
Meanwhile Obama is in South Africa ( where they are about to racially cleanse the remaining white people) complaining about how Trump is destroying America.. Not a peep in the news.
Trump and Putin puts pressure and exposes our deep state and George Soros and others.
MAGA
Don't forget- Trumps loves his country.
I saw the press conference. The answers from Putin and Trump were sometimes off topic to the questions asked. Trump and Putin had their own agenda for the press conference. Trump with democraps and Hilary directly. Putin mentioning Soros by name. There are big issues for this world, but Trump and Putin have a plan.
First things first.
Yet again, another excellent post by hatari. Thank you. And some others here need to read this post here from Gibby one or two times again. Most telling. Oh, BTW, so good to have Piddler on ignore.
I have no problem with Trump and Putin sending the CIA and GRU to whack Soros and his evil band. Sort of The Spy Who Loved Me for the 21st Century.
There’s heads exploding all over the TV and innanet. As I predicted, my sister’s FB feed is exploding all over the place. I shouldn’t mess with their small minds...
Oh, please share that with us.
Here’s the most cogent one:
Originally Posted by Mody Bossy
His stand on human rights issues, conservation and the environment show him for the dog he is.
The rest are actually worse. I’m not sure who “His” refers to, but presume Trump. One other guy dredged up an article from HuffPo “proving” that the improvement in US economy is holdover from Obama’s policies. That sort of thing. It just serves to remind me why I left Canada in the first place.
It's a bit disturbing for me to see people on the right coming up with their own justifications for being hostile towards Russia.
It tells me that all of the nonsense being constantly spewed about Russian collusion with Trump during the election is having an effect even with Trump supporters.
Aside from the Russian military aggression in Ukraine and their threatening posture toward the form Eastern Bloc states, I don’t see a whole lot to quarrel with Russia about, either. Of all the industrialized nations, only Russia is currently acting in this manner... most nations have figured out that war is not the road to riches it was 2 centuries ago.
Trump just maintained he "misspoke". It validated my maintaining what he said was not good in the circumstance he said it. He changed the statement 180 degrees.
So There...
I'm ok with that. I'm ok with the allegation that it wasn't his best press conference or his shining moment. Can't always hit a home run. Personally, I wouldn't have used that platform to ridicule the American Press, Hillary, or the Democrats. That said, all of that is superfluous to the bigger picture. I stand by my analysis that Trump is using Reagan tactics to squeeze Putin and Russia economically. Trump always deals from a position of strength. Straight military strength isn't going to intimidate Putin. The thought of a new arms race and having Trump kill his energy exports will get Vlad's attention. As I offered previously, VBlad can read a spread sheet too. Vlad knows what happens to his economy if crude drops down into the $50/bbl range. No dinero, comrade!
100% AGREEMENT, hat. We can bring their economy to their knees with our potential for all types of energy production. With their GDP being less than Italy's, they have BIG problems for a nation that claims "super-power" status.
Russia's GDP is ranks below New York statistically.
I think this whole thing is somewhat embarrassing. First, Trump says every single one of our intelligence agencies is wrong, and now he says they were right. Sounds to me like he might have been afraid to speak the truth in front of Vladdy.
Chitfire, everybody knows the Russians meddled. Not that I really give a damn, because quite frankly I don't care one way or the other, just as long as Hillary is not president. But, I do think Trump lets his mouth overload his azz sometimes, and this as one of those times.
Sometimes, it's much better to keep your mouth shut than to open it. Our president needs to learn that.
Oh by the way........this is NOT 3-D chess or MAGA.
It's a bit disturbing for me to see people on the right coming up with their own justifications for being hostile towards Russia.
It tells me that all of the nonsense being constantly spewed about Russian collusion with Trump during the election is having an effect even with Trump supporters.
Aside from the Russian military aggression in Ukraine and their threatening posture toward the form Eastern Bloc states, I don’t see a whole lot to quarrel with Russia about, either. Of all the industrialized nations, only Russia is currently acting in this manner... most nations have figured out that war is not the road to riches it was 2 centuries ago.
I trust Russia at least as much as I trust our own "Intelligence Professionals"...
The far greater enemy to our country is our own home grown liberals.
You can keep Russia at bay. Liberals... not so much.
It's a bit disturbing for me to see people on the right coming up with their own justifications for being hostile towards Russia.
It tells me that all of the nonsense being constantly spewed about Russian collusion with Trump during the election is having an effect even with Trump supporters.
Aside from the Russian military aggression in Ukraine and their threatening posture toward the form Eastern Bloc states, I don’t see a whole lot to quarrel with Russia about, either. Of all the industrialized nations, only Russia is currently acting in this manner... most nations have figured out that war is not the road to riches it was 2 centuries ago.
I trust Russia at least as much as I trust our own "Intelligence Professionals"...
The far greater enemy to our country is our own home grown liberals.
You can keep Russia at bay. Liberals... not so much.
Barry, I agree that it's hard to believe anything that comes out of Washington, and without a doubt, there are many liberals embedded in those professional intelligence agencies. As to Liberals or Russia, I think one is as bad as the other. They both are our enemy.
[quote=Bristoe]It's a bit disturbing for me to see people on the right coming up with their own justifications for being hostile towards Russia.
It tells me that all of the nonsense being constantly spewed about Russian collusion with Trump during the election is having an effect even with Trump supporters.
Aside from the Russian military aggression in Ukraine and their threatening posture toward the form Eastern Bloc states, I don’t see a whole lot to quarrel with Russia about, either. Of all the industrialized nations, only Russia is currently acting in this manner... most nations have figured out that war is not the road to riches it was 2 centuries ago.
I trust Russia at least as much as I trust our own "Intelligence Professionals"...
The far greater enemy to our country is our own home grown liberals.
You can keep Russia at bay. Liberals... not so much.[/quot
Barry, I agree that it's hard to believe anything that comes out of Washington, and without a doubt, there are many liberals embedded in those professional intelligence agencies. As to Liberals or Russia, I think one is as bad as the other. They both are our enemy.
James, the one closest to you is the bad one. They hide in plain sight.
Among other things, the deep state/globalists/Communists have plans to send America to war against Iran. It would make them very happy if America's war with Iran escalated into a war with Russia.
America and Russia have the potential to be the biggest impediment to their plans for global domination.
They want to make certain that as much animosity as possible is maintained between America and Russia so that no diplomacy between America and Russia spoils their plans.
Among other things, the deep state/globalists/Communists have plans to send America to war against Iran. It would make them very happy if America's war with Iran escalated into a war with Russia.
America and Russia have the potential to be the biggest impediment to their plans for global domination.
They want to make certain that as much animosity as possible is maintained between America and Russia so that no diplomacy between America and Russia spoils their plans.
If Russia and the US could play ball together and agree on a general foreign policy in the manner that US - GB does, imagine how quickly we could straighten out many of the World's problems. Iran? The Ayatollahs would she it in their dressing gowns if Putin AND Trump told them to stand down or else. Syria? Clean it up in a week. That's likely impossible at this point, but how about a goal?
(Damn! That sounded too much like Gus for my tastes )
Among other things, the deep state/globalists/Communists have plans to send America to war against Iran. It would make them very happy if America's war with Iran escalated into a war with Russia.
America and Russia have the potential to be the biggest impediment to their plans for global domination.
They want to make certain that as much animosity as possible is maintained between America and Russia so that no diplomacy between America and Russia spoils their plans.
If Russia and the US could play ball together and agree on a general foreign policy in the manner that US - GB does, imagine how quickly we could straighten out many of the World's problems. Iran? The Ayatollahs would she it in their dressing gowns if Putin AND Trump told them to stand down or else. Syria? Clean it up in a week. That's likely impossible at this point, but how about a goal?
(Damn! That sounded too much like Gus for my tastes )
That's right,.....and it's not Putin that's preventing that from happening.
I trust Russia at least as much as I trust our own "Intelligence Professionals"...
The far greater enemy to our country is our own home grown liberals.
I'm sorry but I must take issue with that statement. While I agree that most at the top are corrupt, political animals, the rank and file intelligence professionals are just that, professionals and they do a damned good job at keeping us (and especially those in the front lines) safe. Been there and done that. As to your second statement, 100 % in agreement.
I'm sorry but I must take issue with that statement. While I agree that most at the top are corrupt, political animals, the rank and file intelligence professionals are just that, professionals and they do a damned good job at keeping us (and especially those in the front lines) safe. Been there and done that. As to your second statement, 100 % in agreement.
Rank and file can and does get squelched by the top.
I think Obama did more damage than most realize and Trump sees it. They some witch hunting corrupt [bleep].
I trust Russia at least as much as I trust our own "Intelligence Professionals"...
The far greater enemy to our country is our own home grown liberals.
I'm sorry but I must take issue with that statement. While I agree that most at the top are corrupt, political animals, the rank and file intelligence professionals are just that, professionals and they do a damned good job at keeping us (and especially those in the front lines) safe. Been there and done that. As to your second statement, 100 % in agreement.
That chit-show starts at the top. Anyone even being remotely close to the agencies in DC are most certainly a member of the good ol' boy club.
I didn't mean the rank and file, although after 8 years of Obama, the promotions were commensurate with their lock-step beliefs with their superiors.
Love you Trump bashers! Yeah, I just love some of this analysis I'm reading from both sides. "Trump showed weakness - Trump embarrassed us - Trump screwed up blah blah blah"
Listen up you politically ignorant and naive idiots. You might learn something. (Trolls, GFY right now. Don't waste my time)
How did Reagan REALLY defeat the USSR? Do you really know? I bet not one you paid attention then or has thought about it since. This is going to need to be the short version. PM me is you want the long version.
Reagan hated communists! (Great man that he was) He wanted to kill off the Soviet Union. No way to nuke it out with them so he decided to bankrupt them. That was tough to do , as they were pumping oil, building a big ass NG pipeline into Western Europe, and were going to be making money hand over fist with the price of crude some where in the neighbor of $30/bbl.
Now, the USSR had just spend a butt load of money screwing around in Afghanistan (GWB apparently slept through that history lesson), so were cash short, but prospects looked good for a bright economic future to enable them to continue the Cold War by proxy and fund Castro and Ortega and just about any other commie that could destabilize democracy in world and keep us busy fights them elsewhere.
Reagan's plan: 1.) Force them to spend more money on defense. It's expensive, and they have to keep up with us to remain a Superpower 2.) Cut off their money supply.
To make this as brief as possible, Reagan got appropriations to rebuild our military after Carter neglected it. He increased our navy and air force drastically from Carter years. Next, he got the plans for the anti ballistic missile defense - Strategic Defense Initiative (STAR WARS) and the Soviets were told by their scientists that it was possible to create. you will see today that with the Patriot missile system, Star Wars is coming to fruition.
This caused the Soviets to react, and begin development of their counter measures and they had to increase their military spending.
Now on to the economic front. The USSR had all the oil they could pump, but it cost about $26/bbl to produce. With Crude about $30/bbl life was good and the money came rolling in. In 1987, Reagan got the Saudis to up crude production, and the price of crude bottomed out around $13/bbl. It hurt Texas and Oklahoma, but wiped out the USSR. No way to pump their crap for less than $26/bbl. they were out of business and THAT's how Reagan beat the Soviet Union.
So what has Trump been up to the past month, you bitching geniuses? Well let me see:
What has he got the Saudis doing? (deja vu)
Quote
Oil Falls on Prospect of Supply Boost, But Market's `Nervous' By Jessica Summers and Erin Douglas July 1, 2018, 7:55 PM EDT Updated on July 2, 2018, 4:10 PM EDT
Crude declined after U.S. President Donald Trump put pressure on Saudi Arabia to ramp up oil output, with traders worrying about how it could affect spare capacity ahead.
Let's see what he's doing with Europe:
Quote
Trump Roils NATO Allies With Calls to Double Military Spending U.S. leader urges allies to double target to 4% while questioning the alliance’s value and bashing Germany for its support of a Russia gas deal
What to Expect From NATO's Summit in Brussels
The NATO summit in Brussels will take place amid tense relationships within the alliance. The Wall Street Journal's Gerald F. Seib looks at what to expect. Photo: Getty By Rebecca Ballhaus, Valentina Pop and Laurence Norman Updated July 11, 2018 6:50 p.m. ET BRUSSELS—President Donald Trump pressed allies to double their military spending target to 4% of GDP, while questioning NATO’s value and bashing Germany for supporting a gas deal with Russia.
After attacking North Atlantic Treaty Organization leaders for months for not meeting a 2% spending target, Mr. Trump said on Wednesday that amount was too low.
Let's take alook about how Eastern Europe saw the NATO Summit:
Quote
Trump's tough NATO talk plays well on eastern flank By: VANESSA GERA, Associated Press
Updated: Jul 12, 2018 - 12:03 PM
Trump's tough NATO talk plays well on eastern flank
BRUSSELS (AP) - While President Donald Trump's hectoring at the NATO summit alarmed many in the West, his message was mostly embraced Thursday along the alliance's eastern flank - the region that feels most threatened by an assertive Russia. From Poland and the tiny Baltic states down to Romania, eastern leaders welcomed Trump's push for members of the 29-nation alliance to spend more on their militaries, something they have sought following Russian incursions in Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014.
After all, they had been under Moscow's thumb for decades after World War II.
Content Continues Below On the first day of the summit, Trump lambasted his partners for not spending their fair share on defense and asked on Twitter: "What good is NATO if Germany is paying Russia billions of dollars for gas and energy?"
But by the time the summit concluded Thursday he was praising NATO as "very unified, very strong." "He came, he saw, he conquered," declared Poland's state-run broadcaster TVP in an opinion piece. "Contrary to criticism and fears, Trump's brutally sincere behavior has not broken NATO's unity but has mobilized its members to further action that strengthened the organization."
Linas Linkevicius, the foreign minister of Lithuania, wrote on Twitter: "?Strength is a choice, not a given. Once again #NATOSummit bring us closer & stronger. We are resolute, committed to mutual defense, fair burden sharing."
NATO member Estonia noted that a Russian military aircraft even violated its airspace Thursday near the Baltic Sea island of Vaindloo, the second such alleged incident this week and the third in a month.
Many in the region also welcomed Trump's opening salvo when he lashed out at Germany's pursuit of a gas pipeline venture with Russia, which Trump said made Berlin "captive" to Russia.
That message echoed fears that have long been expressed by leaders in the Baltic states and Poland. They fear the gas pipeline will make Europe more dependent on Russian energy, giving Moscow more political leverage over the continent. Poland's prime minister has even called it a "new hybrid weapon."
The countries on the eastern flank also stressed that, despite the divisions, the achievements of the summit in Brussels made them safer. These include opening accession talks with Macedonia and formally signing off on a plan that would improve the alliance's ability to deploy faster in case of an attack. The plan ensures that NATO could deploy 30 land battalions, 30 ships and 30 warplane squadrons at a 30-day notice.
Romanian President Klaus Iohannis, whose Black Sea nation also feels vulnerable with Russia's resurgence, said he saw "no danger" of NATO breaking up.
"There isn't a conflict," he said. "Trump said things plainly, as is normal between friends and allies."
So now I will challenge some of you low IQ bitchmasters to take a look at these two periods of history and compare and contrast.
1980's Reagan upped military spending, forced the Ruskies to do the same, and then cut their legs out from under them by dropping the price on their only viable export - OIL and NG. The USSR crumbled. The Iron Curtain fell and it fell quickly. Germany reunited. Poland is now one of our stanchest allies. It was all unheard of in 1980. A decade later, we win!
2018 - Trump puts emphasis on military spending. Trump puts emphasis on domestic energy production. Trump gets Saudis to increase production. Trump makes friends with countries in Eastern Europe nearest to Russia. Trump demands NATO spend more on military.
Do you now see what is going on? Some of you very same people that have wet dreams about Reagan can't see that Trump is using the Reagan playbook, one that was incredibly successful to pressure Putin and the USSR. Trump doesn't need to threaten Putin. Trump doesn't need to confront Putin. Trump doesn't need to "stand up to Putin" Trump has Putin by the balls. If the price of oil and NG drops below the price that Russia can produce it, they are out of business.
Why do you think that Trump has been pushing shipping our NG to Europe? It's not all about jobs. Some but not all. Why do you think that Trump is livid at Merkel and Germany about their own private NG pipeline under the Baltic with Russia? Trump is trying to crush Putin's balls economically and Merkel is giving him a lifeline. Trump is willing to practically GIVE NG to Europe if it weakens Russia, and the damn Germans are giving Putin economic mouth to mouth resuscitation.
Chew on that and come back and tell how Trump should have been bolder with Putin and nicer to our allies. Phouc no! Our "allies" need to get in line and play right. There is an opportunity here to transform the world and make it better just like it happened in the 1980s. It's time for Putin to go, and it's time for Russia to reform once again. The only way to make it happen to to cripple them economically, and they will demand a change at the top. It is all there for the taking.
Damn straight Trump probably dog cussed Merkel, May, and Macron to their faces. They are wasting a Golden Opportunity. No other country and certainly no other World leader can make this happen except Trump and they are impeding a proven formula for taking the Russian down.
As for not playing Macho Man with Vlad? Vlad can read a spread sheet. Unlike most of YOU, he knows the Saudis have increase oil production. He knows crude is no longer at $100/bbl. He know we are fracking and producing the [bleep] out of oil and NG. He knows we are willing to GIVE it to Europe. Putin knows that NATO spending is going up. He knows that Poland and the Ukraine have leaned to the West and the US. AND PUTIN KNOWS WHO HAS MADE ALL OF THIS HAPPEN. He knows it ain't Hillary Rodham Clinton in the White House.
Some of you will go to sleep tonight all phoucing depressed, thinking that Trump has pussed out, and Vlad has more hair on his ass than Donald. Not me, I'm sleeping well. I'm sleeping well because I can recognize the plan at work. I recognize this is the exact same plan that worked for Reagan. I know that if Merkel, May and the rest of the Euroweenies get on board, Putin is toast and so are a lot of the World's problems. Some of you will also realize this and stop bitching.
You might also get to the point where you start to understand that Trump uses economics both as a carrot and a stick. He puts the screws to Lil Kim, and gets him talking. Tells him that NK can either wither on the vine, or grow and get rich and TRUMP holds the keys to both. For Putin, he DOESN'T WANT TO NEGOTIATE WITH PUTIN! Trump wants Putin OUT OF OFFICE and the way to make that happen permanently is to cripple the Russian economy to the point that either Vlad gives in or the Russian people throw him out.
Well done, sir. You are astute and accurate to the best of my knowledge, and memory. Reagan was one of the best presidents to my lights, and I know, from his own words, that Trump is a "student of Reagan". Even the MAGA comes from Reagan. I know that the Cold War was a major concern for my younger brother, to the point he felt the need of a therapist. Reagan never gave me an uneasy night's sleep. I never doubted his love of country, or his dedication to the ideals of freedom and American excellence. He was a guardian at the gate, that never faltered. I often think of Trump as a cruder version of Reagan. I have no doubt he has Reagan's teaching guiding his movements.
Tariffs on China will force our economy to move to other suppliers which will devastate the Chinese economy. As was stated earlier , their domestic economy is infrastructure driven and built out already. As the Chinese lose access to the US market they will try to dump in the rest of the world. That will prompt Europe to tariff to protect themselves. The Chinese are pretty much screwed if we decide they’re screwed. Russia is in a trap of their own making. We will eventually crush their economy and with Russians in the Ukraine they provide the excuse for us to forward deploy thousands of troops across all the Eastern European borders with Russia. The eventual settlement will be the Russians getting out of the Ukraine while they keep what has traditionally been theirs , the Crimean peninsula. In the meantime we will have rebuilt our and NATO military power and placed it on the Russians borders. Putin was counting on continued corrupt and feckless leadership in the United States with Hillary.
The real enemies of America are also Russia's enemies.
That's why there's so much shrieking about Trump meeting with Putin.
The enemies of America and Russia are responsible for the shrieking.
If Russia and America formed an alliance, the combination would be difficult for the deep state/globalists/Communists to deal with.
Also,..the goal of the deep state/globalists/Communists depend on America being hostile to Russia.
Deep state/globalists/communists, who are these people? How many troops do they field? How are they armed? Are they united or separate entities? Does the DOD know about them?
The eventual settlement will be the Russians getting out of the Ukraine while they keep what has traditionally been theirs ,
Pretty sure the Russians haven't entered Ukraine, with the exception of the Crimea.
It’s Russians propping up the the rebellion in the eastern Ukraine and there are a significant number of out of uniform Russian special forces doing the heavy lifting. Back when Bathhouse Barry was president Putin felt emboldened to take part of the Ukraine under the excuse of protecting the greater ethnic Russian population in the eastern Ukraine.
Russia's only warm water ports are on the Black Sea in the Crimea region of Ukraine.
They've had an agreement with the Ukraine to operate out of those ports for a long time. Most of the residents of the Crimea region are of Russian ancestry.
There was no problem with the arrangement until the CIA went in and stirred up a buncha chit.
There's a lot of crazies in the American letter agencies. As has been demonstrated, they answer to no-one and they like to keep chit stirred up.
The vast majority of America's elected government knows their place. They know not to speak out against the deep state. If they do, they don't keep their cushy, high paying jobs very long.
If someone actually gets elected President that doesn't kiss deep state ass, they end up getting treated like Trump does.
If you don't know what that is,...just turn on one of the cable news networks right now,...this minute. See what they're saying.
Change channels,...then check back in a few hours. They'll still be saying it.
At 3AM tomorrow morning,..when you get up to piss,....turn on a cable news network.
Ever Trumpers seem, like Never Trumpers, to call situations as a choice between COMLLETELY AND UTTERLY FOR Trump or COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY AGAINST Trump.
One can recognize the intelligence of Trumps policy as characterized in the OP while also recognizing that the way he appeared on stage being owned by Putin and the way he seemed to throw his own intel agencies under the bus for Putin’s benefit were bad moves. Those two things can be (and in fact ARE) true at the same time.
What he says publicly and what he does in terms of policy seem rather different and I think Putin, as the OP intelligently (and THROUGHLY) laid forth, knows the difference. I also think Putin knows how to stroke Trump and stoke the Leftists so as to keep our country in a state of conflict. That’s not good, but just how bad it is remains to be seen.
The eventual settlement will be the Russians getting out of the Ukraine while they keep what has traditionally been theirs ,
Pretty sure the Russians haven't entered Ukraine, with the exception of the Crimea.
It’s Russians propping up the the rebellion in the eastern Ukraine and there are a significant number of out of uniform Russian special forces doing the heavy lifting. Back when Bathhouse Barry was president Putin felt emboldened to take part of the Ukraine under the excuse of protecting the greater ethnic Russian population in the eastern Ukraine.
You're leaving off the beginning of the story, wherein Vickie Nudelman and the CIA facilitated a coup to remove the democratically elected head of Ukraine (who was giving signals he might like Putin better than us) so they could install some neo-nazis who definitely liked us better than Putin. The Ukro-nazi shelling of innocent civilians in the east was meant to goad Putin into rolling his tanks, but he didn't take the bait. They weren't supposed to fight back? The nerve of them, preferring a President they elected over one imposed on them by the CIA. He just snagged what he wasn't willing to lose, and left us holding the bag of another broken, useless country for our (Billions?) investment.
Agree 100%. NATO countries need to pay their fair share and we will cover there back. Plus I,d like to see Finland and Sweden as full partners in NATO.
i can see from watching cnn & fox (as if that helps), that the american rank & file believes everything told to them during the cold war as remaining true today. even the politicians can't imagine not attacking russia as the debil himself.
the deep state is deeply embedded with the military-industrial complex. even the good senator from kentucky knows this. not to have a major enemy like russia to keep the military equipment production lines going, billions of dollars will be lost, and then re-allocated. why, that's no fun.
so, gang up and attack trump. sounds like a plan.
trump says the world has changed, and we need to look at it differently.
with our debts of 20 trillion or more, depending upon who's counting, even trump sees a re-set is in order, no matter that oboma nor hillary could implement it. maybe trump can.
Among other things, the deep state/globalists/Communists have plans to send America to war against Iran. It would make them very happy if America's war with Iran escalated into a war with Russia.
America and Russia have the potential to be the biggest impediment to their plans for global domination.
They want to make certain that as much animosity as possible is maintained between America and Russia so that no diplomacy between America and Russia spoils their plans.
And this^^^. Double spades. The deep state wants nuclear war. Thats why Bill paid Kim billions to develop nuclear weapons and its why Zero paid Iran $150 billion to make them. Putin hates the proposed one world order.
The eventual settlement will be the Russians getting out of the Ukraine while they keep what has traditionally been theirs ,
Pretty sure the Russians haven't entered Ukraine, with the exception of the Crimea.
It’s Russians propping up the the rebellion in the eastern Ukraine and there are a significant number of out of uniform Russian special forces doing the heavy lifting. Back when Bathhouse Barry was president Putin felt emboldened to take part of the Ukraine under the excuse of protecting the greater ethnic Russian population in the eastern Ukraine.
You're leaving off the beginning of the story, wherein Vickie Nudelman and the CIA facilitated a coup to remove the democratically elected head of Ukraine (who was giving signals he might like Putin better than us) so they could install some neo-nazis who definitely liked us better than Putin. The Ukro-nazi shelling of innocent civilians in the east was meant to goad Putin into rolling his tanks, but he didn't take the bait. They weren't supposed to fight back? The nerve of them, preferring a President they elected over one imposed on them by the CIA. He just snagged what he wasn't willing to lose, and left us holding the bag of another broken, useless country for our (Billions?) investment.
I completely agree that our CIA started the BS in the Ukraine but Putin was looking for an excuse. Doesn’t really matter who started it but Russia will eventually have to give up or be economically crushed. We haven’t even started to make them bleed in the Ukraine. We could pour arms into the Ukraine and it would get ugly quick for the Russians.
How good of you to mingle with us “you people” types.
Is “you people” a step up, or down, from being a “ basket of deplorable”?
We's been promoted up from the "whiners" who wouldn't accept his last mile-long stack of disjointed ramblings.
We keep workin our karma, someday we can achieve nirvana as @ssholes.
Not someday. You’re already there, deep in nirvana.
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
How is Trump a win, Flave? What political history does he have, much has been discussed of it here. All he is, is fuggin loud mouth with no substantive points and the trumpeteers here drool over him cause "he's sticking it to "them". Hey, I like his pc bashing and the same against the msm and he's right. damned good entertainment. That's all it is. But where is the substance??
Several; Cruz, Kasich would work for me with a Fiorina or Rubio in the sub card (VP).
Ol' Queef, tryin ta set a record for longest-lastin vaginal sores.
The eventual settlement will be the Russians getting out of the Ukraine while they keep what has traditionally been theirs ,
Pretty sure the Russians haven't entered Ukraine, with the exception of the Crimea.
It’s Russians propping up the the rebellion in the eastern Ukraine and there are a significant number of out of uniform Russian special forces doing the heavy lifting. Back when Bathhouse Barry was president Putin felt emboldened to take part of the Ukraine under the excuse of protecting the greater ethnic Russian population in the eastern Ukraine.
You're leaving off the beginning of the story, wherein Vickie Nudelman and the CIA facilitated a coup to remove the democratically elected head of Ukraine (who was giving signals he might like Putin better than us) so they could install some neo-nazis who definitely liked us better than Putin. The Ukro-nazi shelling of innocent civilians in the east was meant to goad Putin into rolling his tanks, but he didn't take the bait. They weren't supposed to fight back? The nerve of them, preferring a President they elected over one imposed on them by the CIA. He just snagged what he wasn't willing to lose, and left us holding the bag of another broken, useless country for our (Billions?) investment.
I completely agree that our CIA started the BS in the Ukraine but Putin was looking for an excuse. Doesn’t really matter who started it but Russia will eventually have to give up or be economically crushed. We haven’t even started to make them bleed in the Ukraine. We could pour arms into the Ukraine and it would get ugly quick for the Russians.
To each his own, but I liked it better when we were the good guys.
For those interested, a quick look describes the increase in Saudi oil producting to MAX production suddenly starting in 1985 as "the Saudis ............... decided to punish the undisciplined OPEC countries." We know it really was in return for F-15s and AWACS. Reagan had already supplied F-15s to Israel. Arms Race Middle East style, right there.
Please note the last section that taks about "High-cost oil production facilities became less or even not profitable. Oil prices as a result fell to as low as $7 per barrel."
High-cost oil production is exactly what the USSR had.
All the historical references are there IF you choose to look.
"OPEC's membership began to have divided opinions over what actions to take. In September 1985, Saudi Arabia became fed up with de facto propping up prices by lowering its own production in the face of high output from elsewhere in OPEC.[20] In 1985, daily output was around 3.5 million bpd, down from around 10 million in 1981.[20] During this period, OPEC members were supposed to meet production quotas in order to maintain price stability; however, many countries inflated their reserves to achieve higher quotas, cheated, or outright refused to accord with the quotas.[20] In 1985, the Saudis tired of this behavior and decided to punish the undisciplined OPEC countries.[20] The Saudis abandoned their role as swing producer and began producing at full capacity, creating a "huge surplus that angered many of their colleagues in OPEC".[21] High-cost oil production facilities became less or even not profitable. Oil prices as a result fell to as low as $7 per barrel.[20]"
Declassified CIA analysis on the cost of the war in Afghanistan to the USSR:
Quote from that article comfirming that the USSR was spending itself into financial ruin between Afghanistan and the Cold War arms race:
Quote
"At the time, the Soviets lacked the technological infrastructure and resources to compete with such a sophisticated missile defense system. As Gorbachev told the Politburo in his pre-Reykjavik preparation sessions, their country was maxed out on defense spending.
A decade before Gorbachev came to power, I witnessed a “barroom brawl” between my boss, then-Secretary of Defense (for the first time) Don Rumsfeld, and then-CIA Director George H. W. Bush. The two squared off over whether the Soviets were allocating 9 to 11 percent (Bush’s view) or 11 to 13 percent (Rumsfeld’s view) of their GDP for defense. Both estimates seemed relatively high: At the time, the United States was spending roughly 5 percent.
During a brief opening of Kremlin archives in the mid-1990s after the fall of the Soviet Union, it was discovered that the number was actually between 30 and 40 percent—and had been for several decades. This was a staggering figure, as Gorbachev well knew. The Soviet government simply could spend no more."
Hey Phil! You still want to call my OP BS or do you want me to beat you up with more facts? Because my OP is FACT based, I can go on and on finding sources to confirm my analysis. How about any of you other Leftist half-wit trolls? Need me to spoon feed it to you?
How good of you to mingle with us “you people” types.
Is “you people” a step up, or down, from being a “ basket of deplorable”?
We's been promoted up from the "whiners" who wouldn't accept his last mile-long stack of disjointed ramblings.
We keep workin our karma, someday we can achieve nirvana as @ssholes.
Not someday. You’re already there, deep in nirvana.
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
How is Trump a win, Flave? What political history does he have, much has been discussed of it here. All he is, is fuggin loud mouth with no substantive points and the trumpeteers here drool over him cause "he's sticking it to "them". Hey, I like his pc bashing and the same against the msm and he's right. damned good entertainment. That's all it is. But where is the substance??
Several; Cruz, Kasich would work for me with a Fiorina or Rubio in the sub card (VP).
Ol' Queef, tryin ta set a record for longest-lastin vaginal sores.
Good find. That was then, this is now. You might also want to post what I wrote just today about being totally wrong on Trump. Trump’s substance has been well proven to me and like Trump,,,I can change.
Thinking you, deep in nirvana, not so much able to. Can’t fix stupid, someone once said.
ETA: Page 4 of Picture worth a thousand words thread.
Russia's only warm water ports are on the Black Sea in the Crimea region of Ukraine.
They've had an agreement with the Ukraine to operate out of those ports for a long time. Most of the residents of the Crimea region are of Russian ancestry.
There was no problem with the arrangement until the CIA went in and stirred up a buncha chit.
There's a lot of crazies in the American letter agencies. As has been demonstrated, they answer to no-one and they like to keep chit stirred up.
The vast majority of America's elected government knows their place. They know not to speak out against the deep state. If they do, they don't keep their cushy, high paying jobs very long.
If someone actually gets elected President that doesn't kiss deep state ass, they end up getting treated like Trump does.
If you don't know what that is,...just turn on one of the cable news networks right now,...this minute. See what they're saying.
Change channels,...then check back in a few hours. They'll still be saying it.
At 3AM tomorrow morning,..when you get up to piss,....turn on a cable news network.
They'll still be talking about it.
Sevastopol had been a crucial Russian warm water seaport since Catherine The Great's time, and Russia has considered it part of greater Russia since then (1784). They had a good working arrangement with Ukraine SSR since WWII and could have maintained pretty much the same arrangement now, but Putin knew feckless Obama would blink and piss down his leg if Russia annexed Crimea, so he annexed it.
Russia's only warm water ports are on the Black Sea in the Crimea region of Ukraine.
They've had an agreement with the Ukraine to operate out of those ports for a long time. Most of the residents of the Crimea region are of Russian ancestry.
There was no problem with the arrangement until the CIA went in and stirred up a buncha chit.
There's a lot of crazies in the American letter agencies. As has been demonstrated, they answer to no-one and they like to keep chit stirred up.
The vast majority of America's elected government knows their place. They know not to speak out against the deep state. If they do, they don't keep their cushy, high paying jobs very long.
If someone actually gets elected President that doesn't kiss deep state ass, they end up getting treated like Trump does.
If you don't know what that is,...just turn on one of the cable news networks right now,...this minute. See what they're saying.
Change channels,...then check back in a few hours. They'll still be saying it.
At 3AM tomorrow morning,..when you get up to piss,....turn on a cable news network.
They'll still be talking about it.
Sevastopol had been a crucial Russian warm water seaport since Catherine The Great's time, and Russia has considered it part of greater Russia since then (1784). They had a good working arrangement with Ukraine SSR since WWII and could have maintained pretty much the same arrangement now, but Putin knew feckless Obama would blink and piss down his leg if Russia annexed Crimea, so he annexed it.
Well,.....no.
Two factions in Ukraine. Those who want to join the EU,...those who don't.
It eventually resulted in almost enough conflict to call a civil war. Of course, the American alphabet agencies decided to get in on it and stir it up even more than it already was.
Russia decided to annex Crimea to protect it's deep water ports in the event that the pro EU rebels took over the government.
Another tidbit that shows Trump is using the Reagan playbook on Russia is Trump's talk of creating a "Space Force".
Quote
President Trump's "Space Force" Idea Isn't As Wacky As It May Sound In fact, it was almost realized last year.
Rich Smith (TMFDitty) Jul 15, 2018 at 10:13AM "I'm hereby directing the Department of Defense and Pentagon to immediately begin the process necessary to establish a space force as the sixth branch of the armed forces. ... We are going to have the Air Force and we are going to have the Space Force -- separate but equal." -- President Donald J. Trump
President Trump made headlines last month when he ordered the U.S. Department of Defense to create a "Space Force," a new branch of the military in addition to the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard. But while the idea came as a surprise to many pundits, and became the butt of no small amount of jokes on late night talk shows, it's actually not as wacky as it may sound.
It turns out that a United States "Space Force" has been under consideration for some time already, and was almost implemented as recently as last year.
Here's a great story that quotes former Sec of State George Schultz that talks about how Gorby feared SDI and how Reagan used it a leverage. This is all adding up nicely.
Quote
POLITICS Ronald Reagan’s Disarmament Dream How Reagan’s fantasy about—and Mikhail Gorbachev’s fear of—space weapons ruined a plan to eliminate the entire U.S. and Soviet nuclear arsenals.
JACOB WEISBERG JAN 1, 2016
Mikhail Gorbachev and Ronald Reagan exchange pens at the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty signing ceremony.BOB DAUGHERTY / AP Share Tweet Email After his reelection in 1984, President Ronald Reagan sat for an interview with Time magazine. “I just happen to believe that we cannot go into another generation with the world living under the threat of those weapons and knowing that some madman can push the button some place,” he said. “My hope has been, and my dream, that we can get the Soviet Union to join us in starting verifiable reductions of the weapons. Once you start down that road, they’ve got to see how much better off we would both be if we got rid of them entirely.” In his dealing with the Soviets, Reagan’s two terms were almost those of two different presidents. Both the hard-liner and the peacemaker were present throughout, but the balance shifted so decisively from one to the other as to create a discontinuity. The man who had denounced the nuclear freeze as Soviet propaganda was now suggesting not just reduction but elimination of all nuclear weapons.
What explains Reagan’s remarkable transformation from Cold War hawk to nuclear peacemaker? His nuclear abolitionism had deep roots, going back to a flirtation with pacifism in the early 1930s. His antiwar side was connected to narratives and images that deeply affected him: seeing the British antiwar play Journey’s End in 1929, being shown footage from the liberation of Auschwitz in 1945, and watching the ABC television movie The Day After in 1983. A projection that stuck with him was that at least 150 million Americans—two-thirds of the population in 1980—would be killed in an all-out nuclear war, though he believed for some reason that Soviet losses would be limited to a much smaller percentage. Advisers who “tossed around macabre jargon about ‘throw weights’ and ‘kill ratios’ as if they were talking about baseball scores” appalled him. In his diary and to aides, Reagan even worried that the biblical prophecy of Armageddon was at hand. MORE STORIES
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Trump's Annual Summer Meltdown DAVID A. GRAHAM With the elevation of Mikhail Gorbachev as the new Soviet leader in March 1985, Reagan’s hopes for a nuclear peace rose. The 54-year-old Gorbachev was well educated and had traveled extensively in the West. He understood English, he wasn’t dying (like his elderly predecessors Leonid Brezhnev, Yuri Andropov, and Konstantin Chernenko), and he even appeared to have a sense of humor. His wife, Raisa, was often at his side, like an American first lady. In his initial months in power, Gorbachev announced a unilateral freeze on deploying intermediate-range missiles in Europe and began speaking in public about the need for perestroika, economic reform. Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, former President Richard Nixon, and others gave Reagan their opinion that Gorbachev represented no change at all. But British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher disagreed. “I like Mr. Gorbachev. We can do business together,” she told the BBC after meeting him for the first time. Thatcher bolstered Reagan’s optimism about the Soviet leader when she visited him at Camp David and delivered a more detailed assessment, warning him, however, that “the more charming the adversary, the more dangerous.”
Gorbachev’s situation paralleled Reagan’s in several ways. He, too, wanted to serve as an agent of societal and political transformation, taking on the alcoholism rampant in Soviet society as well as its faltering economy. Like Reagan, he relied on his own experience more than on the bureaucratic apparatus beneath him. He shared Reagan’s aversion to the logic of mutually assured destruction. Around the same time that Reagan told Soviet foreign minister Andrei Gromyko he wanted to eliminate nuclear weapons, Gorbachev said the same thing in a speech in London. And where Reagan had Secretary of State George Shultz to encourage his evolution, Gorbachev had Eduard Shevardnadze, whom he selected to replace Gromyko as foreign minister.
The chief obstacle to the relationship Reagan wanted with the new Soviet leader was Reagan’s cherished fantasy of a space-based missile-defense program, the Strategic Defense Initiative. In the run-up to their summit meeting in Geneva in November 1985, the first meeting of American and Soviet leaders in six years, Gorbachev sent Reagan a letter proposing a 50 percent cut in intercontinental ballistic missiles, contingent on a complete ban on space weapons. In negotiating sessions, Gorbachev went even further: If the United States gave up the militarization of space, he would be willing to reduce all nuclear forces to zero. Shultz now realized how frightened the Soviets were of SDI, which depended on technology they didn’t know how to develop and couldn’t afford, and he saw missile defense as a crucial bargaining chip to trade for Soviet concessions.
What Shultz did not yet realize was that Reagan would under no circumstances give up the space initiative. Although missile defense had yet to be successfully invented, Reagan viewed SDI as the key to realizing his dream of eliminating nuclear weapons. “We believe that it is important to explore the technical feasibility of defensive systems which might ultimately give all of us the means to protect our people more safely than do those we have at present, and to provide the means of moving to the total abolition of nuclear weapons, an objective on which we are agreed,” he wrote to Gorbachev on April 30, 1985. “I must ask you, how are we ever practically to achieve that noble aim if nations have no defense against the uncertainty that all nuclear weapons might not have been removed from world arsenals? Life provides no guarantee against some future madman getting his hands on nuclear weapons.” Over the next year, a remarkable transformation took place as Gorbachev and Reagan became jointly enraptured with the idea of ending the balance of terror, and they pursued that end over near-universal objection inside their own governments. In January 1986, Gorbachev wrote Reagan with a proposal: eliminate all nuclear weapons by 2000. “Why wait until the year 2000?” Reagan responded to aides in the Oval Office. Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger and CIA Director William Casey, who had done their best to sabotage earlier nuclear treaties, were appalled. Few others inside the Reagan administration took the idea of nuclear abolition seriously. But Shultz did. He ordered the State Department’s arms-control group to get to work on the question of “what a world without nuclear weapons would mean to us” and how to get there. “I know that many of you and others around here oppose the objective of eliminating nuclear weapons, but the president of the United States doesn’t agree with you, and he has said so on several very public occasions,” he told his colleagues. After much back-and-forth, Weinberger and Shultz were able to agree on a proposal to eliminate ballistic missiles, which Reagan sent to Gorbachev in July 1986.
Gorbachev’s anti-nuclear feelings only intensified after the calamitous accident at the Chernobyl nuclear reactor in April 1986, which left the Soviet leader all the more eager for an agreement. So, too, did the Soviet Union’s deteriorating economic situation. In the fall of 1985, Saudi Arabia announced plans to increase oil production. By the spring of 1986, the world price of oil plummeted from more than $30 a barrel to less than $10. Without hard-currency oil revenue, there was no way for the Soviets to pay for imports of grain and other basic commodities while servicing their foreign debt and keeping up militarily. “The United States has an interest in keeping the negotiations machine running idle, while the arms race overburdens our economy,” Gorbachev told a colleague. “That is why we need a breakthrough; we need the process to start moving.” In September 1986, Gorbachev wrote Reagan offering a number of unilateral concessions and proposing a meeting ahead of his planned visit to the United States the following year. Shultz encouraged Reagan to meet Gorbachev in Reykjavik, Iceland, the following month.
Gorbachev arrived at Reykjavik intending to put a significant disarmament package on the table, contingent on Reagan’s agreement to slow down the development of space weapons. In fact, Gorbachev’s proposal was essentially the one he had originally proposed in the run-up to the Geneva summit: a 50 percent cut in the ICBMs that were the core of the Soviet nuclear arsenal and the total elimination of intermediate-range missiles in Europe. But now Gorbachev was willing to treat limited research on space-based missile defense as compatible with the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty. The United States had only to agree to confine its SDI research to the laboratory for ten years and commit not to withdraw from the ABM Treaty for five years after that. Over dinner with his advisers, Reagan returned to the even more sweeping idea that he’d raised previously: why not the complete elimination of ballistic missiles? The next day, with Gorbachev, the sky was the limit. When the Americans laid all their ICBMs on the table, Gorbachev called and raised by proposing the elimination of all strategic nuclear weapons, including submarines and bombers, over ten years. His bid was still contingent on ten years of adherence to his narrow interpretation of the ABM Treaty and its limits on missile defense, but he indicated he’d be willing to negotiate on that point. This seemingly minor disagreement about how long SDI research would stay confined to the laboratory blocked what would have been the most sweeping arms-control agreement in history. Knowing his own bottom line and grasping Gorbachev’s, Reagan realized that they could go no further. The meeting, so close to a momentous transformation, ended when the president got up and walked out with Shultz while Gorbachev was still decrying the destabilizing effects of SDI.
“This meeting is over,” he said. “Let’s go, George.”
“Can’t we do something about this?” Gorbachev pleaded.
Regan Presidency was a disaster, bring up all the hype you like... just too damn lazy to dig up the truth. The guy was a liar constantly making things up … nearly as bad as Trump. Everything he attempted he'd later need to do an about face to save face and would back fire. the guy nearly started WW3 his first term and wasn't until Gorbachev was elected and brought his policy's online that missle treaty's were signed and things started to calm down, wasn't until way after Regan was gone that the soviet republic broke up. Reagan wasn't all that popular at the time... surly not to the point you all try to put him on a pedestal now!
You've all been brainwashed, should really try to study more!
Regan Presidency was a disaster, bring up all the hype you like... just too damn lazy to dig up the truth. The guy was a liar constantly making things up … nearly as bad as Trump. Everything he attempted he'd later need to do an about face to save face and would back fire. the guy nearly started WW3 his first term and wasn't until Gorbachev was elected and brought his policy's online that missle treaty's were signed and things started to calm down, wasn't until way after Regan was gone that the soviet republic broke up. Reagan wasn't all that popular at the time... surly not to the point you all try to put him on a pedestal now!
You've all been brainwashed, should really try to study more!
Phil
Yeah, tell us about being brainwashed.
If he wasn't all that popular at the time, how did he manage to get elected by landslide not once, but twice?
Regan Presidency was a disaster, bring up all the hype you like... just too damn lazy to dig up the truth. The guy was a liar constantly making things up … nearly as bad as Trump. Everything he attempted he'd later need to do an about face to save face and would back fire. the guy nearly started WW3 his first term and wasn't until Gorbachev was elected and brought his policy's online that missle treaty's were signed and things started to calm down, wasn't until way after Regan was gone that the soviet republic broke up. Reagan wasn't all that popular at the time... surly not to the point you all try to put him on a pedestal now!
You've all been brainwashed, should really try to study more!
Phil
You are exactly right. The democrats ( you ) were mad at him just like their mad at Trump. Hasbeen
Gentlemen, I nominate this post as the DUMBEST-ALL-TIME EVER*
*In the imbecile wannabe class.
Hey Phil, you STUPIDFUCK, didn't you even bother to READ all the FACTS Hatari linked for you when he handed you your ASS? ANyway, keep it up, it's fun embarrassing theshit out of you
Regan Presidency was a disaster, bring up all the hype you like... just too damn lazy to dig up the truth.
You've all been brainwashed, should really try to study more!
Phil
You simply can't believe what you just wrote. You are not that stupid. Partisan, yes, but you just can't dispute the indisputable. It all happened. Even Gorby admits it. Was he brainwashed too?
Regan Presidency was a disaster, bring up all the hype you like... just too damn lazy to dig up the truth. The guy was a liar constantly making things up … nearly as bad as Trump. Everything he attempted he'd later need to do an about face to save face and would back fire. the guy nearly started WW3 his first term and wasn't until Gorbachev was elected and brought his policy's online that missle treaty's were signed and things started to calm down, wasn't until way after Regan was gone that the soviet republic broke up. Reagan wasn't all that popular at the time... surly not to the point you all try to put him on a pedestal now!
You've all been brainwashed, should really try to study more!
Phil
You are exactly right. The democrats ( you ) were mad at him just like their mad at Trump. Hasbeen
We are seeing the same hysteria out of the Left that we saw in the '80s over Reagan. When they lose, they fight back with the usual attacks of "starving the poor and the old people". That's what they did with GWB. Harped on the unpopular war and all that.. When they are soundly beaten, they go off the deep end. They still haven't gotten over Reagan soundly kicking their asses, and now Trump is doing it NYC style. Tough days to be a lefty. Wonder how November is looking to them now?
Hat's to you gentlemen for the complex political thread. Too bad Neville Chamberlain wasn't as clever as you all.
Meanwhile- DJT just got GAYPED on the international stage. And then he half heartedly tried to close his arse the next day after the press had a turn, and nobody believed it.
Hat's to you gentlemen for the complex political thread. Too bad Neville Chamberlain wasn't as clever as you all.
Meanwhile- DJT just got GAYPED on the international stage. And then he half heartedly tried to close his arse the next day after the press had a turn, and nobody believed it.
I think it counts as a DP, what do you all say?
What do I say? I say after looking over your 172 posts, why have you come to my thread to out yourself as a #Nevertrumper? If you don't like him, fine. Your vote counts the same as mine. You didn't like his press conference? Fine, I wouldn't have used that stage myself to dis HRC and Dems, but he did. I don't blame him after 18 months of constant false Leftist attacks, but I wouldn't have done it that way.
What else do I have to say? Can't speak to how clever Chamberlain was or wasn't, but Churchill was a major upgrade.
What else do I say? I say that Trump has an opportunity to twist Putin's arm economically, and that will pay huge dividends. Don't like that assessment? Then make your own thread and give me some historical based analysis to make your point, and maybe I'll come troll you.
Regan Presidency was a disaster, bring up all the hype you like... just too damn lazy to dig up the truth. The guy was a liar constantly making things up … nearly as bad as Trump. Everything he attempted he'd later need to do an about face to save face and would back fire. the guy nearly started WW3 his first term and wasn't until Gorbachev was elected and brought his policy's online that missle treaty's were signed and things started to calm down, wasn't until way after Regan was gone that the soviet republic broke up. Reagan wasn't all that popular at the time... surly not to the point you all try to put him on a pedestal now!
You've all been brainwashed, should really try to study more!
Phil
Is that what they're teaching you in middle school these days?
Great thread and comments. Couldn't agree with Hatari and Bristoe more. If you think liberal heads are exploding now, the next few months might push them over the edge into TDS insanity. Trump seems very vocal about the server. Once that info comes out (and you know they have it otherwise Trump wouldn't be drawing attention to it) things are going to get sporty in DC.
Hat's to you gentlemen for the complex political thread. Too bad Neville Chamberlain wasn't as clever as you all.
Meanwhile- DJT just got GAYPED on the international stage. And then he half heartedly tried to close his arse the next day after the press had a turn, and nobody believed it.
I think it counts as a DP, what do you all say?
What do I say? I say after looking over your 172 posts, why have you come to my thread to out yourself as a #Nevertrumper? If you don't like him, fine. Your vote counts the same as mine. You didn't like his press conference? Fine, I wouldn't have used that stage myself to dis HRC and Dems, but he did. I don't blame him after 18 months of constant false Leftist attacks, but I wouldn't have done it that way.
What else do I have to say? Can't speak to how clever Chamberlain was or wasn't, but Churchill was a major upgrade.
What else do I say? I say that Trump has an opportunity to twist Putin's arm economically, and that will pay huge dividends. Don't like that assessment? Then make your own thread and give me some historical based analysis to make your point, and maybe I'll come troll you.
Hatari, one of the things you've got to be as amused by as I am is the paucity of historical knowledge these lefties have. They keep harping on how Trump is like Hitler, Trump is like Chamberlain, etc, etc, etc, as if the only history they've read is that of Europe from 1937 to 1945... which, actually, I doubt they HAVE read; they just keep regurgitating the same old cliche comparisons from the leftist echo chamber because that's all they know. I wonder if any of them notice how similar the demagogues of the left today are to the demagogues who fomented and executed the French Revolution, quite probably the bloodiest and most disastrous political movement in history prior to the 20th century?
If I compared Chuck Schumer to Georges Danton (an apt comparison, btw), or Rachel Maddow and Chris Matthews to Camille Desmoulins, Peator and his ilk would be clueless. But that's to be expected of the low-information voters that make up the bulk of Progressives.
FWIW, I have made a pretty thorough study of Neville Chamberlain, and he was far from stupid. He was in fact a better peacetime statesman than Churchill could ever hope to be. He was a product of his times, however, and fell prey to the common affliction of international politicians of his day: he failed to recognize what Hitler represented, and as such he failed to take him seriously enough to nip the Nazi menace in the bud. Using old formulas for resolution of international politics problems resulted in a disastrous outcome. So in that sense, Mr. Trump's refusal to follow the tried-and-true methods of diplomacy--espoused by bluebloods like John Kerry, methods that got the world into the current mess under the foreign-policy disaster that was the Obama administration--are in fact the antithesis to the actions of Neville Chamberlain's conduct in the 1937-39 period.
What I don't get is how dismissive the libs etc. are of a nuclear exchange and steps to prevent it. So let's get into a giant pissing contest by repeatedly insulting the leader of the country with the second most nukes just to inflate our collective ego. What could possibly go wrong? I remember the Cuban missile crisis and living within 10 miles of a primary strategic target. Probably targeted with three nukes and Soviets favored megaton range warheads in those days.
Well, I can understand the left not remembering the Cuban missile crisis; after all, most of them hadn't been born yet. But one would think that they would remember their fear 5 months ago, when they were howling about North Korean nukes raining down on the West Coast. Apparently they forgot that, too.
Hat's to you gentlemen for the complex political thread. Too bad Neville Chamberlain wasn't as clever as you all.
Meanwhile- DJT just got GAYPED on the international stage. And then he half heartedly tried to close his arse the next day after the press had a turn, and nobody believed it.
I think it counts as a DP, what do you all say?
Is say that it’s pretty clear what’s I’m the forefront of your mind. You and Paddler should get along just fine.
I can understand the left not remembering the Cuban missile crisis
Just the horror of the possibility should be enough. I was a little kid but when it looked like people really were going to start pushing buttons the mood among the kids and women in post housing was pretty bleak. The men were at their duty stations, ground zero, for a couple days straight with the possibility that they would survive but their families would be incinerated. (Site R now that it's a tourist attraction)
Regan Presidency was a disaster, bring up all the hype you like... just too damn lazy to dig up the truth. The guy was a liar constantly making things up … nearly as bad as Trump. Everything he attempted he'd later need to do an about face to save face and would back fire. the guy nearly started WW3.
You've all been brainwashed, should really try to study more!
Phil
1. Are you really so dumb you cant spell Reagan?
2. You blame Reagan for ALMOST starting WW3 and on the same day you blame Trump for notbalmost statring it.
3. Reagan came up with star wars missile defence. Your Ds said it would never work. They lied. Thats why Zero started destroying it in Europe. Thats what he signaled Putin re "I'll have more flexibility after my reelection. He knew he was going to be reelected. Rigged voting machines give one confidence- like Hillary had. PS. That will be coming to light too, from info decent Americans will glean from the DNC server your biotch didnt want the FBI guys checking out for evidence of Russian "meddling".
Its strange dont you think, the Ruskies were meddling but the dims (being dim) wouldnt help the FBI get to the bottom of it by letting them eval their server while those crooked Rs had no problemo letting them check theirs. Ha, with all the crooked fbi dimocraps, its no wonder what info the got off the R computers and gave to Hillary.
Darn, a coincidental fire at Slick Willeys house burned up a bunch of paper documents. How fortunate.
4. Who's brainwashed? We all spent our time watching the msm. We went to public schools. We got fed the bs you swallowed that was force fed all kids from govt educational curriculum . You swallowed the bs and called us stupid thinking we were too dumb to learn "Rs bad, Ds good".
We did learn United we Stand. Now your indoctrinaters are teaching divided we stand (our diversity is our strenght-same thing).
Youre so stupid you think Hat is stupid. He would make more sense talking in his sleep than you do awake. Youre actually too stupid to argue with. All those things you said about Reagan you heard from places like CNN. Didnt they tell you Hill would win? And you still believe them.
Hatari, one of the things you've got to be as amused by as I am is the paucity of historical knowledge these lefties have. They keep harping on how Trump is like Hitler, Trump is like Chamberlain, etc, etc, etc, as if the only history they've read is that of Europe from 1937 to 1945... which, actually, I doubt they HAVE read; they just keep regurgitating the same old cliche comparisons from the leftist echo chamber because that's all they know. I wonder if any of them notice how similar the demagogues of the left today are to the demagogues who fomented and executed the French Revolution, quite probably the bloodiest and most disastrous political movement in history prior to the 20th century?
If I compared Chuck Schumer to Georges Danton (an apt comparison, btw), or Rachel Maddow and Chris Matthews to Camille Desmoulins, Peator and his ilk would be clueless. But that's to be expected of the low-information voters that make up the bulk of Progressives.
FWIW, I have made a pretty thorough study of Neville Chamberlain, and he was far from stupid. He was in fact a better peacetime statesman than Churchill could ever hope to be. He was a product of his times, however, and fell prey to the common affliction of international politicians of his day: he failed to recognize what Hitler represented, and as such he failed to take him seriously enough to nip the Nazi menace in the bud. Using old formulas for resolution of international politics problems resulted in a disastrous outcome. So in that sense, Mr. Trump's refusal to follow the tried-and-true methods of diplomacy--espoused by bluebloods like John Kerry, methods that got the world into the current mess under the foreign-policy disaster that was the Obama administration--are in fact the antithesis to the actions of Neville Chamberlain's conduct in the 1937-39 period.
Doc, you bring up good points. First, people should get a real look at the French Revolution and grasp the magnitude of the Reign of Terror. The talking points the Left parrots are growing stale and meaningless. Buzzwords learned on the college campus, instantly accepted as dogma, ring hollow to the working people of the country. Seems that college life longs to recreate the uproar of the 1960s, when college protests "made a difference in the world". Trouble is, they have nothing to protest. No war, no draft. All there is for them to protest is relatively easy living due to the existence of easy student loans increasing enrollment and making jobs for professors who have never left academia to make an honest buck in the world. They are protesting the success of capitalism and are too naive to realize they are the beneficiaries of this great system.
Once again, it will take several abysmal elections for the Left to realize that voters will not subscribe to "resist and obstruct". Eventually, (and unfortunately) they will listen to Bill Clinton who told Hillary she needed to go and talk about jobs and the economy. She didn't, Trump did, end of HRC reign of terror. Trump owns the talk on jobs and the economy, thus he will get re-elected. The result will be increasing psychotic noise from the Left.
Well, I can understand the left not remembering the Cuban missile crisis; after all, most of them hadn't been born yet. But one would think that they would remember their fear 5 months ago, when they were howling about North Korean nukes raining down on the West Coast. Apparently they forgot that, too.
Ever Trumpers seem, like Never Trumpers, to call situations as a choice between COMLLETELY AND UTTERLY FOR Trump or COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY AGAINST Trump.
One can recognize the intelligence of Trumps policy as characterized in the OP while also recognizing that the way he appeared on stage being owned by Putin and the way he seemed to throw his own intel agencies under the bus for Putin’s benefit were bad moves. Those two things can be (and in fact ARE) true at the same time.
What he says publicly and what he does in terms of policy seem rather different and I think Putin, as the OP intelligently (and THROUGHLY) laid forth, knows the difference. I also think Putin knows how to stroke Trump and stoke the Leftists so as to keep our country in a state of conflict. That’s not good, but just how bad it is remains to be seen.
There are a lot more folks than the two of us who see things as you describe.
I also think Putin knows how to stroke Trump and stoke the Leftists so as to keep our country in a state of conflict. That’s not good, but just how bad it is remains to be seen.
There is no doubt in my mind that Putin finds it great sport to cause turmoil in our country. I'm certain he's been laughing his communist butt off over these accusations of collusion and the cries from our media and the Democrat Party. He probably has the same feeling someone here would get when their team won the Superbowl! The hackers will probably get an invite to the Kremlin to receive the Order of Lenin,or whatever he bestows these days.
As far as stroking Trump's ego, I am sure Putin made plans and strategy to do just that. Do think Trump and ALL of hi people are idiots. Don't think he's not been prepared for that. Question is, was Putin prepared for Trump's blasé attitude toward the whole summit? Unlike previous admins, Trump wasn't frothing at the mouth to affect some promise or change. I do see the scenario I outlined previously in play. Trump walked in, knowing he has Vlad by the balls, especially if he can get Europe totally on board. Trump doesn't even have to mention it or even bring the subject up. Vlad knows what is going on. Vlad can read the tea leaves. Vlad knows that it will cost him big cash he doesn't have to keep up with expanding NATO spending. Vlad knows that increased world oil production hammers his income. It goes without saying.
Trump can put this into action, and let it work. To make an analogy, sorta like when Putin poisons one of his opponents with polonium. They get sick and weak before dying. That's more interesting to him than the mafia style bullet to the head. Make them suffer. Trump can do the same. Hurt Putin in the checkbook until their economy really starts to suffer. Then he can call Vlad up and ask " You wanna talk now?".
Tell me a better way to deal with Putin? Putin isn't going to "give" any concessions without being forced. How can you force him? Militarily? That might work with the NORKS, but Putin knows we can't touch him. Give Putin something? Vlad takes what he wants (see Crimea). Give Vlad a chance to rebuff your advances? (see Obama's work with Putin).
No, soften him up. When he sees the inevitable, like Gorby did, then Vlad is likely to be a more cooperative partner in any number of things. Until then, Vlad is out to strengthen Russia, and Russia alone against the rest of the World.
Putin is plenty astute enough to realize that he doesn't *need* to cause turmoil in America,..even if he was inclined to.
The globalists are destroying America without any help from anybody. They will destroy Russia also if they can make it happen.
Both Trump and Putin understand who is the real threat to their countries.
Putin also understands that if the globalists get total control of America that they will use the American military to launch a war with Russia before the century is out,....maybe long before the century is out.
All the shrieking you're hearing from the media about the Trump/Putin talks is due to the fact that any lessening of the tension between America and Russia will get in the way of the globalists agenda.
The globalists need America and Russia to be weak. The best way to weaken them is to have them beat each other down through war.
Well, I can understand the left not remembering the Cuban missile crisis; after all, most of them hadn't been born yet. But one would think that they would remember their fear 5 months ago, when they were howling about North Korean nukes raining down on the West Coast. Apparently they forgot that, too.
They forgot 9/11 pretty quickly.
People remember exactly what the MSM wants them to remember.
Like it or not, the power the media has to mold and shape people's perception of the world is unmatched.
Ever Trumpers seem, like Never Trumpers, to call situations as a choice between COMLLETELY AND UTTERLY FOR Trump or COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY AGAINST Trump.
One can recognize the intelligence of Trumps policy as characterized in the OP while also recognizing that the way he appeared on stage being owned by Putin and the way he seemed to throw his own intel agencies under the bus for Putin’s benefit were bad moves. Those two things can be (and in fact ARE) true at the same time.
What he says publicly and what he does in terms of policy seem rather different and I think Putin, as the OP intelligently (and THROUGHLY) laid forth, knows the difference. I also think Putin knows how to stroke Trump and stoke the Leftists so as to keep our country in a state of conflict. That’s not good, but just how bad it is remains to be seen.
There are a lot more folks than the two of us who see things as you describe.
The so-called intelligence agency's do not deserve to be thrown under the bus. They deserve to be thrown under a column of Abrams Tanks on a circular track.
The so-called intelligence agency's do not deserve to be thrown under the bus. They deserve to be thrown under a column of Abrams Tanks on a circular track.
This is on the level of my feelings about their betrayal of America.
Putin is plenty astute enough to realize that he doesn't *need* to cause turmoil in America,..even if he was inclined to.
The globalists are destroying America without any help from anybody. They will destroy Russia also if they can make it happen.
Both Trump and Putin understand who is the real threat to their countries.
Putin also understands that if the globalists get total control of America that they will use the American military to launch a war with Russia before the century is out,....maybe long before the century is out.
All the shrieking you're hearing from the media about the Trump/Putin talks is due to the fact that any lessening of the tension between America and Russia will get in the way of the globalists agenda.
The globalists need America and Russia to be weak. The best way to weaken them is to have them beat each other down through war.
Putin is nothing but a thug and murder. He should be treated as such. The FBI and our Intel organizations are the finest in the world. We should confront Putin anywhere and everywhere we can to get rid of this menace.
Putin is nothing but a thug and murder. He should be treated as such. The FBI and our Intel organizations are the finest in the world. We should confront Putin anywhere and everywhere we can to get rid of this menace.
Hillary is nothing but a thug and murder. She should be treated as such. The FBI and our intel organizations aren't the finest in the world, they are corrupt for not going after her. We should confront Hillary anywhere and everywhere we can to rid us of this menace.
Fixed it for you........
Cant fix stupid, you go girl, you, and your fellow Marxist are doing the country a favor by exposing yourselves and proving how ignorant you are. Red wave in November......
Putin is plenty astute enough to realize that he doesn't *need* to cause turmoil in America,..even if he was inclined to.
The globalists are destroying America without any help from anybody. They will destroy Russia also if they can make it happen.
Both Trump and Putin understand who is the real threat to their countries.
Putin also understands that if the globalists get total control of America that they will use the American military to launch a war with Russia before the century is out,....maybe long before the century is out.
All the shrieking you're hearing from the media about the Trump/Putin talks is due to the fact that any lessening of the tension between America and Russia will get in the way of the globalists agenda.
The globalists need America and Russia to be weak. The best way to weaken them is to have them beat each other down through war.
Simple explanations tend to be correct...... like this one.
Lots of mental masturbation going on in this thread, so your post is a refreshing change.
Putin is plenty astute enough to realize that he doesn't *need* to cause turmoil in America,..even if he was inclined to.
The globalists are destroying America without any help from anybody.
I think he enjoys that angle too. Entertainment Russian style.
No,..I don't think so.
As mentioned, Putin understands that it would be very bad for Russia if the globalists took total control of America.
Hillary is a flagrant tool of the globalists. If the Russians did indeed hack into her illegal, private server, it was because they understood how bad it would be for Russia if a globalist tool like Hillary got elected.
the msm, the demo's, and many many republicans have the mindset of the official us gov't policy position for the last 50 years or so. that is, america is good, russia is bad.
now, with the re-set gathering legs underneath itself, it scares many to death. what if russia really isn't the big bad wolf. will that affect our military industrial complex investments? maybe china can be cast in the light of big bad wolf, if we re-set with russia.
oh wait, we've got cadillac plants in china. uh-oh.
Putin is plenty astute enough to realize that he doesn't *need* to cause turmoil in America,..even if he was inclined to.
The globalists are destroying America without any help from anybody. They will destroy Russia also if they can make it happen.
Both Trump and Putin understand who is the real threat to their countries.
Putin also understands that if the globalists get total control of America that they will use the American military to launch a war with Russia before the century is out,....maybe long before the century is out.
All the shrieking you're hearing from the media about the Trump/Putin talks is due to the fact that any lessening of the tension between America and Russia will get in the way of the globalists agenda.
The globalists need America and Russia to be weak. The best way to weaken them is to have them beat each other down through war.
Simple explanations tend to be correct...... like this one.
Lots of mental masturbation going on in this thread, so your post is a refreshing change.
Its more simple than that. A nuclear war will let the deep state gain control of the US, Lucifers plum, and the one world tyrannical govt, if not the tribulation, will have begun. Utopia will not be so Utopian.
Hat's to you gentlemen for the complex political thread. Too bad Neville Chamberlain wasn't as clever as you all.
Meanwhile- DJT just got GAYPED on the international stage. And then he half heartedly tried to close his arse the next day after the press had a turn, and nobody believed it.
I think it counts as a DP, what do you all say?
What do I say? I say after looking over your 172 posts, why have you come to my thread to out yourself as a #Nevertrumper? If you don't like him, fine. Your vote counts the same as mine. You didn't like his press conference? Fine, I wouldn't have used that stage myself to dis HRC and Dems, but he did. I don't blame him after 18 months of constant false Leftist attacks, but I wouldn't have done it that way.
What else do I have to say? Can't speak to how clever Chamberlain was or wasn't, but Churchill was a major upgrade.
What else do I say? I say that Trump has an opportunity to twist Putin's arm economically, and that will pay huge dividends. Don't like that assessment? Then make your own thread and give me some historical based analysis to make your point, and maybe I'll come troll you.
Hatari, one of the things you've got to be as amused by as I am is the paucity of historical knowledge these lefties have. They keep harping on how Trump is like Hitler, Trump is like Chamberlain, etc, etc, etc, as if the only history they've read is that of Europe from 1937 to 1945... which, actually, I doubt they HAVE read; they just keep regurgitating the same old cliche comparisons from the leftist echo chamber because that's all they know. I wonder if any of them notice how similar the demagogues of the left today are to the demagogues who fomented and executed the French Revolution, quite probably the bloodiest and most disastrous political movement in history prior to the 20th century?
If I compared Chuck Schumer to Georges Danton (an apt comparison, btw), or Rachel Maddow and Chris Matthews to Camille Desmoulins, Peator and his ilk would be clueless. But that's to be expected of the low-information voters that make up the bulk of Progressives.
FWIW, I have made a pretty thorough study of Neville Chamberlain, and he was far from stupid. He was in fact a better peacetime statesman than Churchill could ever hope to be. He was a product of his times, however, and fell prey to the common affliction of international politicians of his day: he failed to recognize what Hitler represented, and as such he failed to take him seriously enough to nip the Nazi menace in the bud. Using old formulas for resolution of international politics problems resulted in a disastrous outcome. So in that sense, Mr. Trump's refusal to follow the tried-and-true methods of diplomacy--espoused by bluebloods like John Kerry, methods that got the world into the current mess under the foreign-policy disaster that was the Obama administration--are in fact the antithesis to the actions of Neville Chamberlain's conduct in the 1937-39 period.
Yep, socialists calling nationalists like Trump a Hitler who was a socialist. Nazis stood for National Socialists German Workers Party. Our modern socialists are the Nazis. The followers are too stupid to realize how their leaders practice their deflection. They bemoan the 1%ers like Hilkary and then turn around and vote for them. Unreal.
Spot on and I LOVE how its got PedophiliaPaDDler getting his shorts tied in a knot...
I can hear his B/P going up all the way from Utah as I type this....
Maybe he'll stroke out or slit his wrists.....
and let his long suffering wife be able to cash in that life insurance policy she's been secretly paying month after month for the last 30 years, dreaming of the day she can get rid of the wimp she married, and cash in big time for the years of humiliation of being married to a jackass clod like him all these years...
Doesn't RIP PaDDler have a nice ring to it?
But not as nice as "may the damn Pedophile rot in hell"....
I still bet him and Charlie Manson will be eternal love birds....at Satan's Bar and Grill....
Ever Trumpers seem, like Never Trumpers, to call situations as a choice between COMLLETELY AND UTTERLY FOR Trump or COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY AGAINST Trump.
One can recognize the intelligence of Trumps policy as characterized in the OP while also recognizing that the way he appeared on stage being owned by Putin and the way he seemed to throw his own intel agencies under the bus for Putin’s benefit were bad moves. Those two things can be (and in fact ARE) true at the same time.
What he says publicly and what he does in terms of policy seem rather different and I think Putin, as the OP intelligently (and THROUGHLY) laid forth, knows the difference. I also think Putin knows how to stroke Trump and stoke the Leftists so as to keep our country in a state of conflict. That’s not good, but just how bad it is remains to be seen.
There are a lot more folks than the two of us who see things as you describe.
Spot on and I LOVE how its got PedophiliaPaDDler getting his shorts tied in a knot...
I can hear his B/P going up all the way from Utah as I type this....
Maybe he'll stroke out or slit his wrists.....
and let his long suffering wife be able to cash in that life insurance policy she's been secretly paying month after month for the last 30 years, dreaming of the day she can get rid of the wimp she married, and cash in big time for the years of humiliation of being married to a jackass clod like him all these years...
Doesn't RIP PaDDler have a nice ring to it?
But not as nice as "may the damn Pedophile rot in hell".... I still bet him and Charlie Manson will be eternal love birds....at Satan's Bar and Grill....
![[Linked Image]](http://s119.photobucket.com/user/gvblack/media/Unknown_zpsu2mehri6.png.html)
