Reading an article on the Hearing Protection Act one manufacturer says they won't become cheaper. I find that a rather silly notion given what they really are.

The only really patented item a suppressor is the "K" baffle. Yet a patent is only good for 20 years. It's a pretty simple thing to get around a patent on such a simple item.

So Right now all that overhead such as R+D, machinery and wages is spread out over relatively few units. When that cost is spread out over 100+ times that many suppressors the cost for unit drops radically. So then a company who does not seriously ramp up production and seriously drop prices is simply not going to be able to compete and will eventually go out of business.

Then if Suppressors are handled as firearms then we can expect a great deal of imports. These companies have well developed facilities for their manufacture. And they are cheaper. For example, in New Zealand a suppressor for a rimfire goes for about $15 U.S.

That the price won't drop if the Hearing Protection Act passes I think is a silly notion. It is made in absence of consideration of what market forces will be.

I don't think it's silly at all.

If you think Ruger and Sig are going to start selling cans for $15 you're smoking bat schit.

They will never get the chance to be reasonably priced if they can't be made legal. CNC machine technology allows relatively cheap mass production. Material cost is the largest drawback. 22 suppressors made from Aluminum could become dirt cheap. Competition will become pretty stiff and I believe prices will come down dramatically. Perhaps not for some offerings that have broad appeal. If you really look at it there hasn't been any earthshaking developments in suppressors since the Maxim was introduced excepting exotic materials.

The problem is government will likely never relinquish any part of control. They want the tax money and control allows the ATF to regulate and exercise more power over the people. The easiest way to get around bad law is never allow it on the books in the first place. Any NFA item is a high stakes game for the manufacturer and that is reflected in the price. Remember the cheap 'solvent traps"? After a few producers were jailed that part of competition dried up.

Want to get the bill through both houses and signed? It's easy just vote out any jackass that is in opposition and replace them with people that are willing to follow the oath they all take.

I didn't say they would. But to think they would still go for $300 to $500 for a rimfire suppressor is crazy.

They will become $200 cheaper right off the bat...

This is New Zealand where they are unregulated.:
https://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting-shooting/firearm-parts/silencers-suppressors

Note that 1 New Zealand Dollar equals $0.68 U.S. dollars.

I think that is reasonable right off the bat, or soon after. I think most will hold off and wait for the price to come down. But enough will jump at the beginning to make the price initially go up simply by supply and demand.

Then you have to consider how many large firearms companies will jump in either directly or by subsidiary. That and new start up companies. I'm thinking after 18 months to 2 years the supply demand ratio will flip.

Now what I want probably won't be cheap. I want an over the barrel suppressor for my Ruger AR-556.

I was in Lane Suppressors in Rapid City 18 months ago and said to the fellow there "I guess the Hearing Protection Act would be great for you guys." I was surprised by the answer he gave. He said it would probably be the end of the small producers since they would not be able to compete on price with the big producers and the new well mechanized large scale companies. Prices would most definitely come down dramatically.

If they can sell them for $15 in NZ they can be that cheap here, providing the gooberment dosn't tax them exorbitantly.

$20 but yeah, that's the point.

Even if the market demand for suppressors only grows 5X after deregulation, prices will drop. Not willingly. Maybe not quickly. But the prices will drop. As noted above, there is probably a fair amount of good baffle technology that is now past end of patent life. If someone can get 75% to 80% of the sound reduction out of a suppressor that only costs 30% to 50% of a "state of the art" can, there's a market for that. Just look at the RAR's...Off top of my head, I can not think of a single market where increased production and increased competition did not lead to lower prices...

Demand would grow at least 100x, maybe even more.

You wouldn't be able to get anything done at a gunsmith for 5 years because they would all be threading barrels 24x7.

Nobody has mentioned the fact that if made legal/easily accessible, they won't need to be made to last a lifetime. Cheaper materials and processes used to make a disposable type product with a shorter useful life. I can't imagine we wouldn't see $50 cans at a minimum. Probably closer to $30.

Of course, like a cure for cancer, it's not gonna happen so the whole conversation is mental masturbation.

Ruger and Sig will be giving cans away as promotional items like extra mags or nite sites.

Using Ruger and Sig as examples, they have their CNC machines set up. They have people trained. They are using the appropriate materials.

Why aren't they selling cans for $50?

And let's ballpark a demand increase of about 200% when the stamp/bullschit thing hypothetically disappears.

How many years before supply meets demand? Five? Ten? During that time prices will spike like crazy. Think 22LR shortage +p. You think after a decade of seeing people happily spend $500 or $600 on a $300 product that manufacturers are gonna drop it down to $50? And if they do, how many years before that happens?

And make no mistake, the tax ain't what keeps people from buying a can. It's the process.

AR's are available for $399.00 right now and were $1000.00 and up 5 years ago. There won't be a supply issue if demand spikes because it's a simple item to make and manufacturing will ramp up quick. Stamped parts as opposed to machined, cheap steel as opposed to titanium etc.... No different than a $50 take off plastic stock and a $600 McMillan or a $20 knife and a custom Ingram.

If they sell that cheap in the UK, NZ and Austin, it'll be no different here. If nothing else, all those cheap suppressors that are being marketed overseas will find their way to our shores quickly.

Your numbers are a bit extreme. I'd say with the big companies jumping in and start ups and imports, 2-3 years before the ratio flips. You can bet the big companies in the U.S. already have plans of the board. Europe has a dozen or so companies. Taurus in Brazil can be expected to jump in. All these companies already have marketing chains and import chains established.

Plus the fact that these are rather simple. The over barrel is a bit more complicated but not really complicated. I bet if you had 5 suitable CNC machines you could crank the out by the hundreds.

Suppressor are legal in South Africa and I saw them priced under $200 US when I was there hunting in 2014

If this tax stamp crap ever goes away you will see manufacturing from every direction building and selling suppressors

Prices will come down

Figure that they will still have an 11% P-R excise tax on them that all shooting and outdoor related products have.

You know more about metallurgy and machining than I do but I don't see suppressors selling for $20 stateside.

I can buy lots of things in foreign countries for cheap. Those prices don't translate in the US.

I would not assume that legislators will allow for the importation of the products. If "deregulated." Which is a serious misuse of the word in my opinion.

They're still going to be serialized and require a 4473.

Start schitting $50 22LR cans that keep you out of the red.

I'd love to see them.

suppressors are going to continue to be a luxury item bought in this country as an accessory by gun people not just the average fudd with a few long guns. I doubt they ever get to the point that they cost the same money as a cheap pocket knife or a box of ammo.

Nor do I.

But, I do have a CNC machining background, and once upon a time worked with a fully licensed individual on some can research. I got to see what went into some of the more volumetrically efficient cans of the 90's, as well as some legacy cans at that time.

IMNSHO, Stainless cans for centerfire rifles, could easily be available at retail for less than $100. They'd be on the large size volumetrically, and they wouldn't be the most quiet, but they'd work pretty darn well for most peoples desires. Two end caps, some spacers, some flat baffles of varying thicknesses and a 9" long tube. Weld'em together in a fixture for alignment purposes and call it good. Not much to it. Want smaller, quieter or lighter? You're going to pay more. Chevy vs Cadillac, VW vs Mercedes Benz...

Removing the NFA designation also makes it easy to legally DIY cans. No more Form 1 (if memory serves) needed.

So why is nobody making them?

Because if you're willing to go through the year wait, the $200 stamp and the transfer fee you want a can that will last your lifetime?

There will never be over the counter suppressors.

Actually they will be handled as firearms. Manufacture of them without a license will be illegal just like manufacturing a gun is illegal. They will be on a 4473 and have a NICS check.

So if they have the 4473 and NICS check at POS, is it then treated like a firearm that is bought new, then sold down the road, say locally, that no 4473/background check needed? Dependent of course on which state or locality you live in?

Or does the sale have to go through an FFL dealer?

You can make your own firearm at home as long as it is not sold.

Scott is saying you may be able to do that with a can if the bill passed.

My understanding is that they will be treated the exact same as a firearm. All state laws apply.

Interesting concept, and probably not far from the truth.

I'm sure there are a handful of idiots that will want to thread an oil filter onto the end of their Glock but I'm pretty sure that market will dry up real quick.

Having purchased suppressors I want something that is functional. Not some 7th grade shop project hanging off the end of my barrel.

And I'd love to see the $100 can that handles .300 Win Mag. If you guys have that figured out and can turn a profit you might want to start looking for investors.

I would think most gun owners would have a better grasp of supply and demand after eight years of Obama but it would appear not. Everybody still seems to think you can just "ramp up" production.

The tax stamp is actually the biggest spur that sticks in my craw. I don't believe for a second the scat that's been talked about returning that cost to the consumer on every can bought after 2016. I'll believe that when I see it.

I would have no problem doing 4473's for suppressors, with processing the same as a firearm. To me, the tax stamp is nothing but a ripoff and has been since the '30's.

And, I also don't have a problem paying more than $50 for a quality suppressor. None of mine were less than $400.

Not at all interested in something mass produced in somebody's back yard.

I'd sacrafice my early expenditures, as long as we get the suppressors off the class 3 or whatever they are on soon, and no tax stamps, and all the paperwork.

YES costs will come down. ANd you'll have a choice of a kia or a benz and all in between.

Will they be 20 bucks, dunno, but if they were 100 or 200 for most cans and double that for the big rated cans I'd be happy as heck...

I believe that if they are deregulated, more mfrs. will get into the game the price will decrease a certain amount.

But the $64,000 question is...…. isn't the safe hearing act about dead ? I don't think discussing this is too much of a thread drift, because the entire thought of lower priced cans depends on it.

Yes. It's dead.

Per federal law, you can sell any firearm made at home with or without a serial number. The law simply states you can't manufacture solely with the intent to sell. The trick is finding someone willing to buy a homebrew firearm.

It was a can (that with revisions is still in production) from a BIG name can maker that gave up the ghost and blew it's guts the length of a 100 yard range while on a .300 Win mag. A round the can was rated for. I wound up with some stitches as a memento. The issue was either a design or production flaw, depending on viewpoint. The can as manufactured now, is no longer made in the same manner. Some would say it is less expensive to produce now, and yet more reliable. I'd agree.

The thing is, back in '94 or so when the incident happened, the internals were simple AF. Sure the first two baffles were 3/16 (or so) thick but the rest were much thinner. Stamping sized thinner.

Not to hard to blank off some 1.500" dia 304 stainless for spacers, 9" or so of 304 .058 wall stainless and sumtin like 8 or so baffles and weld the stack together to make a pretty effective can good for .300 Magnums. It was this basic design I was referring to when I said it could retail for under $100. Again, lighter, more effective for size will cost you more.

As for why not look for investors? Because currently there is no market. With sales volume so low, prices need to be high in order to pay for salaries and capital expenses.

An AR-15 is an order of magnitude more difficult to manufacture than a basic centerfire rifle suppressor. And yet a rifle can be purchased for less than a basic centerfire suppressor, all due to the market for ARs being 1000s of times larger than the market for suppressors. Get a version of the hearing loss prevention bill passed, and prices will plummet.

P.S. But not to $20 for a decent can. That's crazy talk. Decent materials cost at least that much before any labor is involved,

I've used suppressors a bit (understatement), FYI, A top line rimfire suppressor here in NZ will set you back $90.00 NZ ($61.00 US). That includes our GST (Goods and Services Tax) at 15%. I'm talking top line stuff here, you can get them cheaper but (apart from rimfire suppressors that may last the distance) you need to keep away from cheaper stuff.

A top line rimfire magnum supressor (includes .17 Hornet, I've just bought one) is $190 NZ.

A top line centrefire (non-mag) will set you back around $460 NZ. A top line centrefire magnum is around $600 NZ.

The New Zealand technology that goes into suppressors is very good. I've fired many hundreds (maybe thousands) of rounds through mine using 270wsm, 300saum and 300winmag and never had a problem. And they are not big and heavy - 4" forward of the muzzle and circa 400grams weight. They have been great for my ears! Price is circa NZD400 for a good product. NZD/.68USD.

http://www.dpt.co.nz

So tell me, what would an over the barrel suppressor for a 308, and another for a 223, cost there?

I don't hold out much hope that they'll ever be deregulated.

I can read you know. An over the barrel suppressor tends to cost a bit more than a screw on the end. He wasn't specific in his statement so I asks for more specificity

In Pattaya Beach, I could buy a case of Carlsberg for $5.00.

Do you think that's what a case of Carlsberg was selling for in the U.S.?

NZ $460 would get you an overbarrel suppressor suitable for both.

http://www.silencer.net.nz/silencers-and-suppressors/compact-silencers/

Disclaimer - I have no financial interest in this company but have purchased from them.

I imagine if the bill did pass NZ manufactures and Europeans would tool up and export to the U.S.

I use a DPT brand over barrel suppressor on my Sako 85 .308 that cost roughly $240 USD. They're very well made and not too heavy. There are several other NZ made suppressors of good quality available. DPT exports a lot of suppressors to the U.K. so I'm sure they would be more than eager to export to the U.S.

You also have to take in to account the cost of threading the barrel to accept the suppressor. There are many rifle barrels that come already factory threaded though.