This is absolutely tragic. Police officers in Anne Arundel County, Maryland arrived at a man’s home to confiscate his guns under the state’s Red Flag law. When he answered the door holding a gun, a fight ensued and they shot him dead.
For months, we have been warning you about the so-called “red flag” bills that are being passed in states around the country. These laws allow family members, friends, and even complete strangers to turn gun owners into police to have their firearms confiscated. It is then up to the gun owner to prove that he or she deserves the right to keep and bear arms. It completely turns the justice system on its head. Under these laws, gun owners are presumed guilty until proven innocent.
On Monday morning, police officers in Anne Arundel County, Maryland showed up confiscate 60-year-old Gary J Willis’ guns. A family member had called police and asked them to suspend Gary Willis’ gun rights, and the local police department was more than happy to oblige.
When the pounding on the door began at 5:17 am, Gary showed up to his door holding a firearm. When he saw it was police, he put the gun down to talk to them. But then, the officers informed him they were there to confiscate all of his weapons.
Imagine how you would feel. You wake up out of a sound sleep to pounding on your door. You grab a gun in case it is a criminal, but it turns out that the police are there to confiscate your guns without even accusing you of committing a crime…
Gary Willis refused to comply with the confiscation order. That is when the fight broke out. During the struggle, one of the weapons discharged. Police, fearing for their lives, opened fire on Gary Willis, killing the 60-year-old man in his own home.
Gary Willis was not charged or even accused of committing a crime. All of this happened because one extended family member told police she was worried that he was dangerous. No evidence, no proof… just one person’s word. And now, an innocent man is dead.
This will become a common means of assassination. Don't like someone, and know they own guns? Call in a confidential report that they've been behaving strangely and own guns, and the police will SWAT them at 5:30 AM, resulting at the very least in their being robbed at gunpoint, but possibly even killed by the police when they refuse to cooperate with said robbery.
Naturally, as soon as this law is challenged, and makes it to the Trump Supreme Court, it will be overturned as unconstitutional on multiple counts. Lord, let that day come soon, before too many more Americans fall victim to this Bolshevik law.
Naturally, as soon as this law is challenged, and makes it to the Trump Supreme Court, it will be overturned as unconstitutional on multiple counts. Lord, let that day come soon, before too many more Americans fall victim to this Bolshevik law.
There used to be something known as "due process" in this country but now they have been able to get around that... Just like the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. They don't need no stinking due process. Welcome to 21st century America, folks. Besides; It's common knowledge that all gun owners are dangerous nut cases, right? So it's all necessary for our so-called "Public Safety".
Wow, Man, I've never heard of this law and I live here. I sure hope nobody wants to screw me and have my guns confiscated. This ain't right. Guilty until presumed innocent.
He obviously made the decsion to fight it out on the front porch instead of the court.
That will be the decision that others will face under the same circumstances as these types of laws become more pervasive and they will. Highlighted by every "mass" shooting.
No they aren't, but there should be more to take place than a phone call followed by a government sanctioned execution, which is basically what happened here as I understand it.
I didn't know about the adoption of these "Red Flag" laws. Very, very disturbing.
Aside from that, the police exercised poor judgement serving this order at 5am. No apparent reason for doing so and I'm sure that contributed to the outcome. I also just read, in the link below, that the police chief cited this as evidence that the law is needed.
He obviously made the decsion to fight it out on the front porch instead of the court.
That will be the decision that others will face under the same circumstances as these types of laws become more pervasive and they will. Highlighted by every "mass" shooting.
If a good chunk of your life savings are tied up in pristine collectable firearms, there can be more to consider than merely winning in court to get them back. What will their value be after they've been tossed into the back of a van together, and stored in a damp environment for a year?
I find this particularly disturbing as well as blatantly unconstitutional. If I haven't done anything wrong, I can't envision standing by and watching police officers load up and haul off my personal property.
I like that "who knows what would have happened if we hadn't gone there at 5am." Like maybe the guy would still be sleeping? They never said what the incident that happened Sunday with the family was.
I trust even less police in places where they have to carry a "department issued" weapon.
No, some of them are crazier than a schidthouse rat, and NEED to have their guns taken away. But it needs to be done with due process, in accordance with the tenets that our justice system was founded on.
I like that "who knows what would have happened if we hadn't gone there at 5am." Like maybe the guy would still be sleeping? They never said what the incident that happened Sunday with the family was.
It's guaranteed to remain confidential. That's the law. You can report anything to the police, triggering this response, without having to worry about libel suits and such, as they want to encourage such reporting.
Now that the left has complete control here in Colorado again they've already begun to talk about getting a red flag law in place before even being sworn in! Book it! And as others have said this will be abused by the likes of the scorned woman or disgruntled neighbor.
No, some of them are crazier than a schidthouse rat, and NEED to have their guns taken away. But it needs to be done with due process, in accordance with the tenets that our justice system was founded on.
Exactly, a hearing, with an attorney, in an adversarial environment, a neutral judge, opportunity to confront accusers (no hiding behind confidentiality), and opportunity to hear and refute the charges, etc., etc.. Before all that happens, you are presumed innocent, and your property isn't touched. That's what the Constitution and traditional American jurisprudence requires. Absent that, it's literally nothing short of armed robbery.
At the critical point of contact you have two options legal or physical.
There is no societal apparatus to suport you currently should you choose the physical.
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by FatCity67
He obviously made the decsion to fight it out on the front porch instead of the court. That will be the decision that others will face under the same circumstances as these types of laws become more pervasive and they will. Highlighted by every "mass" shooting.
If a good chunk of your life savings are tied up in pristine collectable firearms, there can be more to consider than merely winning in court to get them back. What will their value be after they've been tossed into the back of a van together, and stored in a damp environment for a year?
So the Vikings raid your village, break into your home and, at sword point, demand your life savings. What do you do? Hope that you can win a lawsuit against them at some later date?
At the critical point of contact you have two options legal or physical.
There is no societal apparatus to suport you currently should you choose the physical.
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by FatCity67
He obviously made the decsion to fight it out on the front porch instead of the court. That will be the decision that others will face under the same circumstances as these types of laws become more pervasive and they will. Highlighted by every "mass" shooting.
If a good chunk of your life savings are tied up in pristine collectable firearms, there can be more to consider than merely winning in court to get them back. What will their value be after they've been tossed into the back of a van together, and stored in a damp environment for a year?
I believe that if we have a documentably accurate value of the guns that are seized that we could hold the authorities accountable for their return in like condition.
As for myself, I’ll never be a collector and if I lost all my guns I’d just replace them. Got a couple more than I can use as it is.
So the Vikings raid your village, break into your home and, at sword point, demand your life savings. What do you do? Hope that you can win a lawsuit against them at some later date?
I refer you to my signature line. The Vikings raided the village all damned ready.
Before 2018, five states had some version of red flag laws.[7] After the Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Parkland, Florida, in 2018, that number more than doubled, as more states enacted such laws:[8][9] Florida,[10] Vermont,[11] Maryland,[12] Rhode Island,[13] New Jersey,[14] Delaware,[15] Massachusetts,[16] and Illinois.[17] Other state legislatures considered similar legislation.[18][3][19][20]
Libs are in love with red flag laws.......... The only time they are in favor of "stereotyping" is when it's somebody like a gun owner and/or a dreaded conservative. Then it's suddenly O.K. to stereotype folks. But they'll continue to scream out against things like stereotyping and continue to tell you how "non-judgemental" they are.
While I can savvy that it can be dangerous to fugg with 60 somethings, that doesn't justify the Gov kickin' in the door and murdering them, in fact, the Gov was conducting an illegal act when the homeowner lost his life which makes it aggravated murder in my view.
I thought that the police were just like us and would NEVER go door to door confiscating guns since doing so absent due process would be unconstitutional?
The mere accusation is enough to suspend due process and the constitutional protections afforded to us by our creator.
I don't know how many people here, how many times have said on various matters to just roll with it and fight it out in court when the police arrest you for something that isn't illegal in the first place. I guess guns are different.
This is what comes when folks just let stuff happen for years and years and then it happens to them or they can finally envision it.
Before 2018, five states had some version of red flag laws.[7] After the Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Parkland, Florida, in 2018, that number more than doubled, as more states enacted such laws:[8][9] Florida,[10] Vermont,[11] Maryland,[12] Rhode Island,[13] New Jersey,[14] Delaware,[15] Massachusetts,[16] and Illinois.[17] Other state legislatures considered similar legislation.[18][3][19][20]
the British are coming.
I recall that many on this site were indignant that the 'authorities' missed the 'red flags' and that prior action would have prevented the shooting. Many also believe that ex felons should regain their gun ownership rights.
The simple fact is that politicians, the law makers, are both incapable and unwilling to address the problem and that gun confiscation and regulation gives them power and is the default remedy.
The only realistic answer is for individuals to be self reliant. Acquire training, knowledge and weapons and refuse to be a victim. In today's political climate repression is to be expected and should be planned for. Having off the books guns and dispersing the locations of same may be a good plan for some.
Unfortunately self reliance is too difficult for many.
I don't know how many people here, how many times have said on various matters to just roll with it and fight it out in court when the police arrest you for something that isn't illegal in the first place. I guess guns are different. This is what comes when folks just let stuff happen for years and years and then it happens to them or they can finally envision it.
Well thats the big question isnt it. What are you willing to sacrifice? You have two options. Legal or Physical.
If the Law with lots of guns and personnel comes to your house with a signed warrant to get your guns and you are there with your family, kids etc. What do you do?
So if you think you'll get your guns back in any kind of the same condition you had them stolen in, after the court fight, dream on. I bought a batch of rifles that had been confiscated by the police. Most were NIB Savage 99's a few decades old. Two were engraved models worth thousands of $ each. The police threw them in the trunk of a squad car and they were all scratched to sheit, Wood and metal. It looks like they made every effort possible to teach the owner a lesson about messing with the police, even removing the ones in the boxes so they could be damaged along with the unboxed ones.
To me, the police are nothing more than criminals the way they disrespect a citizens property and rights. I can't imagine how I would have reacted at 5am either. Probably would have had a shootout in the living room.
Where's the GD sense of decency anymore? Are the police such disattached sociopaths that they have no awareness of what a citizens rights are, or how to behave as something less than animals?
And people wonder why the police are despised? Do you ever listen to them speak? With their language they somehow seem to have a disconnect with the empathy and compassion centers in their personality and are running in robot mode, "7 civilians were pronounced deceased at the scene"... WTF is that? Those cops need a serious bitch slapping.
I am surprised that a case on these laws has not gotten to SCOTUS yet; I did not know that there were as many as there are that have enacted these type laws going back to 1999.
Needs to get there................soon, very soon.
I thought that the police were just like us and would NEVER go door to door confiscating guns since doing so absent due process would be unconstitutional?
The mere accusation is enough to suspend due process and the constitutional protections afforded to us by our creator.
That's what I was waiting for.
6 pages and not a single comment on the actions of the LEO that "Followed Orders" to illegally confiscate a persons property without Due Process, until your's.
Law like these cannot succeed unless our LEO are ready, willing and able to Confiscate your firearms.
We hear and read over and over that LEO are on the Side of the Second Amendment and would never even thing about Confiscation without Due process, and here we are again. Following orders in spite of the Constitution.
Moral, never answer the door unless you know who is on the other side. If it is LEO, Do Not Answer, Ever. If they break down the door down, shoot the criminals.
A couple of counties over, 450 square miles but less than 8,000 people. They have a young sheriff and he said he hopes for gun registration. I've argued with him over it and it's amazing his 'thinking' on the matter. It shows how easy it is for this kind of crap to creep into areas.
He ran uncontested, but I'll be watching there closely in the future and making people aware.
A couple of counties over, 450 square miles but less than 8,000 people. They have a young sheriff and he said he hopes for gun registration. I've argued with him over it and it's amazing his 'thinking' on the matter. It shows how easy it is for this kind of crap to creep into areas.
He ran uncontested, but I'll be watching there closely in the future and making people aware.
I thought that the police were just like us and would NEVER go door to door confiscating guns since doing so absent due process would be unconstitutional?
The mere accusation is enough to suspend due process and the constitutional protections afforded to us by our creator.
That's what I was waiting for.
6 pages and not a single comment on the actions of the LEO that "Followed Orders" to illegally confiscate a persons property without Due Process, until your's.
Law like these cannot succeed unless our LEO are ready, willing and able to Confiscate your firearms.
We hear and read over and over that LEO are on the Side of the Second Amendment and would never even thing about Confiscation without Due process, and here we are again. Following orders in spite of the Constitution.
Moral, never answer the door unless you know who is on the other side. If it is LEO, Do Not Answer, Ever. If they break down the door down, shoot the criminals.
Wow, Man, I've never heard of this law and I live here. I sure hope nobody wants to screw me and have my guns confiscated. This ain't right. Guilty until presumed innocent.
Stonecutter,
If you apply for a Maryland medical marijuana application the Md State police will come and get your guns before the permit is issued. At first, I thought this was propaganda...but it's true.
I'm thinking red flag calls against every police officer and every elected official in Maryland...
Yep, I overheard Rick Scott say something like "This is it ... I've had enough ... I'm armed, and I'm going out in a bang." I should call the police and tell them about that so they can arrive at his residence at 5:00 AM and take his guns.
The family member should be charged and convicted for causing the murder..
They didn't pull a trigger, the cops did. There are much better ways to compliance from people , than waking them from a deep sleep. This crap needs to change. They had no good reason to wake him up and put him under stress, it's almost a guarantee of a screw up by one side or the other. Putting aside the lack of constitutionality, the method will get folks dead.
The family member should be charged and convicted for causing the murder..
They didn't pull a trigger, the cops did. There are much better ways to compliance from people , than waking them from a deep sleep. This crap needs to change. They had no good reason to wake him up and put him under stress, it's almost a guarantee of a screw up by one side or the other. Putting aside the lack of constitutionality, the method will get folks dead.
I think that's the general objective. If those goes wild it will be mass murder and the left will applaud it every day.
The family member should be charged and convicted for causing the murder..
They didn't pull a trigger, the cops did. There are much better ways to compliance from people , than waking them from a deep sleep. This crap needs to change. They had no good reason to wake him up and put him under stress, it's almost a guarantee of a screw up by one side or the other. Putting aside the lack of constitutionality, the method will get folks dead.
The family member should be charged and convicted for causing the murder..
They didn't pull a trigger, the cops did. There are much better ways to compliance from people , than waking them from a deep sleep. This crap needs to change. They had no good reason to wake him up and put him under stress, it's almost a guarantee of a screw up by one side or the other. Putting aside the lack of constitutionality, the method will get folks dead.
The family member should be charged and convicted for causing the murder..
They didn't pull a trigger, the cops did. There are much better ways to compliance from people , than waking them from a deep sleep. This crap needs to change. They had no good reason to wake him up and put him under stress, it's almost a guarantee of a screw up by one side or the other. Putting aside the lack of constitutionality, the method will get folks dead.
i haven't watched much news from any source the last few days, but did catch most of Tucker & Hannity last night & so far, I have not seen a single comment about this shooting....................has anyone else seen anything of any significance?
Thinking it's being covered up as much as possible?
I assure you that the cops don't appreciate this crap. If the guy is crazy, HE'S what needs to be taken away, not his guns.
Bingo. Too crazy to have a gun = too crazy to be loose. Not too crazy to be loose = your rights remain intact. If there’s cause, Baker Act them for psychiatric evaluation, and leave their guns in their homes.
Whatdaya think would happen if you didn't answer the door?
If they are there to confiscate your guns, does that mean that they have a search warrant? (I don't know if they do or don't)
But if they have a search warrant for a "dangerous" person, who does not answer the door, do they then call in the Military Arm of the Local Federales (also known fondly as SWAT) & breach your door, tear up your house & in the end, shoot your dog & take the guns.
This whole scenario could get out of hand real quick like, I'm thinkin'.
Whatdaya think would happen if you didn't answer the door?
If they are there to confiscate your guns, does that mean that they have a search warrant? (I don't know if they do or don't)
But if they have a search warrant for a "dangerous" person, who does not answer the door, do they then call in the Military Arm of the Local Federales (also known fondly as SWAT) & breach your door, tear up your house & in the end, shoot your dog & take the guns.
This whole scenario could get out of hand real quick like, I'm thinkin'.
MM
In the first place, they're deluded. I don't believe that they wouldn't answer the door. You get a knock at the door in the middle of the night, you never know whether it's your neighbor needing help, the victim of some wreck or something else or even an evil-doer just seeing if you're home. Most gunny's I know are going to answer the door. If you don't your old lady will bug the [bleep] out of you or go do it herself. Maybe somebody hit your dog on the highway and it needs attention.
In the second place, if cops think they are legally able to do this, warrant or no, a door isn't stopping them from taking your guns. They have the numbers and local and state legal system on their side to do what they want.
The thing about cops doing this against their will is utter bullshit. Nobody forces you to be a cop.
The family member should be charged and convicted for causing the murder..
They didn't pull a trigger, the cops did. There are much better ways to compliance from people , than waking them from a deep sleep. This crap needs to change. They had no good reason to wake him up and put him under stress, it's almost a guarantee of a screw up by one side or the other. Putting aside the lack of constitutionality, the method will get folks dead.
Why would they NOT wait until the guy leaves his house? At most he might have a side arm or two at that point. MUCH safer out in the open.
Whatdaya think would happen if you didn't answer the door?
If they are there to confiscate your guns, does that mean that they have a search warrant? (I don't know if they do or don't)
But if they have a search warrant for a "dangerous" person, who does not answer the door, do they then call in the Military Arm of the Local Federales (also known fondly as SWAT) & breach your door, tear up your house & in the end, shoot your dog & take the guns.
This whole scenario could get out of hand real quick like, I'm thinkin'.
MM
In the first place, they're deluded. I don't believe that they wouldn't answer the door. You get a knock at the door in the middle of the night, you never know whether it's your neighbor needing help, the victim of some wreck or something else or even an evil-doer just seeing if you're home. Most gunny's I know are going to answer the door. If you don't your old lady will bug the [bleep] out of you or go do it herself. Maybe somebody hit your dog on the highway and it needs attention.
In the second place, if cops think they are legally able to do this, warrant or no, a door isn't stopping them from taking your guns. They have the numbers and local and state legal system on their side to do what they want.
The thing about cops doing this against their will is utter bullshit. Nobody forces you to be a cop.
Believe what you want, but I signed up to shoot bank robbers and date strippers, not deal with nuts that now live every other door all day.
The thing about cops doing this against their will is utter bullshit.
I think that's more true than not.
And way too many of them like it, like the power trip & believe that far too many of the everyday citizens are bad guys & not to be trusted in anything, not that there are not a lot of legitimate bads guys as we all know there are.
It's a bad situation that is very likely to get worse in some states.
I assure you that the cops don't appreciate this crap. If the guy is crazy, HE'S what needs to be taken away, not his guns.
What iF he's not crazy , but a problematic alcoholic( as reported in some sources)..?....Should he be locked away like a crazy but his guns go free...???...
How do you properly deal with substance abuse gun owners?
Originally Posted by kellory
[ They had no good reason to wake him up and put him under stress, it's almost a guarantee of a screw up by one side or the other. Putting aside the lack of constitutionality, the method will get folks dead.
There are different kinds of confiscation orders.
One can receive official notification in the mail to bring them in by a certain date to a specific location. or/ Emergency category confiscation Order means LEO turn up at your door step instead.
I assure you that the cops don't appreciate this crap. If the guy is crazy, HE'S what needs to be taken away, not his guns.
What iF he's not crazy , but a problematic alcoholic?....Should he be locked away like a crazy but his guns go free...???...
How do you properly deal with substance abuse gun owners?
The second amendment don't say shyt about alcohol or alcoholics. If he's a free citizen of the United States he has a RIGHT to be armed, like it or not. If being drunk in your own home was legitimate reason to take that RIGHT from someone, half the people on this board would be disarmed.
I assure you that the cops don't appreciate this crap. If the guy is crazy, HE'S what needs to be taken away, not his guns.
What iF he's not crazy , but a problematic alcoholic?....Should he be locked away like a crazy but his guns go free...???...
How do you properly deal with substance abuse gun owners?
The second amendment don't say shyt about alcohol or alcoholics. If he's a free citizen of the United States he has a RIGHT to be armed, like it or not. If being drunk in your own home was legitimate reason to take that RIGHT from someone, half the people on this board would be disarmed.
Yup, pretty much have to agree with that, with exception to convicted felons.
If being drunk in your own home was legitimate reason to take that RIGHT from someone, half the people on this board would be disarmed.
What makes you think he was only intoxicated while at home?
he could have been known to be out and about while heavily intoxicated and carrying...alcohol is not included under the federal 'controlled substance' statute regarding firearm ownership , so its left to the individual states to legislate and deal with.
We, American citizens, are innocent until proven guilty of a crime - beyond a reasonable doubt - by due process of law. Preventive prosecution and confiscation of property are not American principles.
Every man must decide for himself what cost he is willing to pay, but violation of our inalienable rights must be resisted, if our Foundational principles are to be preserved. History proves that those peoples who didn't, became slaves to their oppressive governments.
The 2A is the first, essential freedom. Without it, the rest of the Bill of Rights exists at the discretion of despotic bureaucrats and power hungry politicians. I believe Heston had it right, "From my cold, dead hand."
We, American citizens, are innocent until proven guilty of a crime - beyond a reasonable doubt - by due process of law. Preventive prosecution and confiscation of property are not American principles.
Every man must decide for himself what cost he is willing to pay, but violation of our inalienable rights must be resisted, if our Foundational principles are to be preserved. History proves that those peoples who didn't, became slaves to their oppressive governments.
The 2A is the first, essential freedom. Without it, the rest of the Bill of Rights exists at the discretion of despotic bureaucrats and power hungry politicians. I believe Heston had it right, "From my cold, dead hand."
Koresh was also wanted for questioning regarding serial child abuse and sexual assault.
No... he wasn’t. That was b s that Reno came up with. You need to quit carrying water for the crooked feds..... they ain’t gonna hire you.
Yes, he was. Not by the feds, but by Texas Child Protective Services (CPS). I was too old to work for the feds when I turned 36. I ain't carring water for anyone, you included. You're phfukking wrong. The county I worked in, Brazos County, is about 90 miles South of where the Davidian compound was. Koresh impregnated children in the compound. He was on the way to prison, and would have gone if BATF hadn't decided they needed a high-profile bust.
. Koresh impregnated children in the compound. He was on the way to prison, and would have gone if BATF hadn't decided they needed a high-profile bust.
. Koresh impregnated children in the compound. He was on the way to prison, and would have gone if BATF hadn't decided they needed a high-profile bust.
he was tried and found guilty?
Colloquial cop language. CPS had plenty of evidence and it was a matter of time before he would be arrested, tried and sent to prison.
We, American citizens, are innocent until proven guilty of a crime - beyond a reasonable doubt - by due process of law. Preventive prosecution and confiscation of property are not American principles.
Every man must decide for himself what cost he is willing to pay, but violation of our inalienable rights must be resisted, if our Foundational principles are to be preserved. History proves that those peoples who didn't, became slaves to their oppressive governments.
The 2A is the first, essential freedom. Without it, the rest of the Bill of Rights exists at the discretion of despotic bureaucrats and power hungry politicians. I believe Heston had it right, "From my cold, dead hand."
We, American citizens, are innocent until proven guilty of a crime - beyond a reasonable doubt - by due process of law. Preventive prosecution and confiscation of property are not American principles.
Every man must decide for himself what cost he is willing to pay, but violation of our inalienable rights must be resisted, if our Foundational principles are to be preserved. History proves that those peoples who didn't, became slaves to their oppressive governments.
The 2A is the first, essential freedom. Without it, the rest of the Bill of Rights exists at the discretion of despotic bureaucrats and power hungry politicians. I believe Heston had it right, "From my cold, dead hand."
"A Standing Army and Police Force being necessary to a despotic state, the privilege to keep and bear whatever the Federal Government deems 'legal' shall not be infringed...except when the government and their agents want to."
Try living/ caretaking for someone with less than nornal mental issues and when you attempt to reach out for advice, assistance, direction, anything from anyone in the medical community you are shunned, ignored, or just plain lied to. Or told “geez, wish we could help. But we’ve already pretty much phuqued up your whole situation already.” Especially when it involves any kind of threat to funding, etc.
Sorry for rant. But unless you loved one has experienced one of the trendy maladies, you will ALL be pretty screwed.
MENTAL ILLNESS ISSUES WILL ALWAYS REMAIN A SECONDARY OR TERTIARY ISSUE. INCIDENTS WILL CONTINUE TO REMAIN TOTALLY REACTIONARY. It’s all a sham.
Try living/ caretaking for someone with less than nornal mental issues and when you attempt to reach out for advice, assistance, direction, anything from anyone in the medical community you are shunned, ignored, or just plain lied to. Or told “geez, wish we could help. But we’ve already pretty much phuqued up your whole situation already.” Especially when it involves any kind of threat to funding, etc.
Sorry for rant. But unless you loved one has experienced one of the trendy maladies, you will ALL be pretty screwed.
MENTAL ILLNESS ISSUES WILL ALWAYS REMAIN A SECONDARY OR TERTIARY ISSUE. INCIDENTS WILL CONTINUE TO REMAIN TOTALLY REACTIONARY. It’s all a sham.
Try living/ caretaking for someone with less than nornal mental issues and when you attempt to reach out for advice, assistance, direction, anything from anyone in the medical community you are shunned, ignored, or just plain lied to. Or told “geez, wish we could help. But we’ve already pretty much phuqued up your whole situation already.” Especially when it involves any kind of threat to funding, etc.
Sorry for rant. But unless you loved one has experienced one of the trendy maladies, you will ALL be pretty screwed.
MENTAL ILLNESS ISSUES WILL ALWAYS REMAIN A SECONDARY OR TERTIARY ISSUE. INCIDENTS WILL CONTINUE TO REMAIN TOTALLY REACTIONARY. It’s all a sham.
Not sure how many psychiatrists you guys know.....
But I believe the vast majority of them to be super liberal or at the very least afraid of guns.
Even with due process spoken of, when the amount of firearms and ammo most here keep on hand, quick search of the internet for postings, I’d doubt that very few that post here would be deemed “non threatening” to society.
Try living/ caretaking for someone with less than nornal mental issues and when you attempt to reach out for advice, assistance, direction, anything from anyone in the medical community you are shunned, ignored, or just plain lied to. Or told “geez, wish we could help. But we’ve already pretty much phuqued up your whole situation already.” Especially when it involves any kind of threat to funding, etc.
Sorry for rant. But unless you loved one has experienced one of the trendy maladies, you will ALL be pretty screwed.
MENTAL ILLNESS ISSUES WILL ALWAYS REMAIN A SECONDARY OR TERTIARY ISSUE. INCIDENTS WILL CONTINUE TO REMAIN TOTALLY REACTIONARY. It’s all a sham.
It’s all simply a case of CYA or “that’s not my department”. You would not believe the schidt I have seen. And heard! Yes
The sad part is it all falls on deaf ears. Like the old Thomas Nast Tammany Hall cartoon! Tweed and his confederates all standing in a circle, point and the guy standing next to them!
It’s all simply a case of CYA or “that’s not my department”. You would not believe the schidt I have seen. And heard! Yes
The sad part is it all falls on deaf ears. Like the old Thomas Nast Tammany Hall cartoon! Tweed and his confederates all standing in a circle, point and the guy standing next to them!
I hate to say it but given the standard of current law, these red flag orders are going to be legal. They really aren’t any different in effect or operation than a standard protective order and those are granted willy nilly every single day in every county of every state in the country. And standard protective orders deprive you of your firearms rights as well, it is just that up to now, they haven’t actually gone out and collected them for the duration in most places.
If you really want to know when the camel got its nose under the tent and when the battle was lost, it was in the 90s when the Laufenberg am mementos was passed with bipartisan support.
I wonder if THAT will be the 'test case' sent to the SCOTUS in order to get that onerous BS overturned?
Hard for me to believe that the family will test it.................
Maybe they will if they get approached by a gun friendly group to financially support it & shepherd it forward, but otherwise, I'd bet not.
MM
Hmmmm...hard for me to believe the family won't test it. First, I'd lobby the District Attorney's office to file murder charges against the cop or cops who killed him. Then I'd find a decent hungry lawyer (there are a lot of hungry lawyers out there) to suit the officers, the supervisory line up to the Chief, the City (or county) and the State for having such an abortion of a law in the Penal Code.
... I'd lobby the District Attorney's office to file murder charges against the cop or cops who killed him..
Courts have allowed Cops to skate even when they shoot folks without any form of weapon in hand.
in this case we have a guy who lost his temper, grabbed his gun and chose to struggle.
seriously, is there a court in the land that would convict those LEOs...?
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
.. If the NRA really wants to help, they should give the family free legal assistance.
Why wait for the NRA.?.. start a 'gofundme' on social media and see how many 2A types across the nation are actually interested in sending money to hire a hungry lawyer to sue a city/state for such unconstitutional confiscation laws.
but I think we will have to settle for the usual toothless tiger gun forum internet outrage approach while expecting others to do something real in taking up the cause.
Originally Posted by JoeBob
I... They really aren’t any different in effect or operation than a standard protective order and those are granted willy nilly every single day in every county of every state in the country. And standard protective orders deprive you of your firearms rights as well, ....
people have come to accept old existing laws that deprive them of their rights, the new rage is to be outraged by new laws that deprive them of the same rights....but Gov already knows that in time they will come to accept them as well....
even Trump as President supports confiscation as 1st priority and citizens rights a distant 2nd. and with all the glowing gushy praise he regularly pours over LE, means he supports LE in their role of confiscating guns in such manner.
millions of law abiding armed gun owners could march on DC in protest , but you can bet your balls that Donald will have the national guard, tanks and other kick ass hardwear ready and waiting to greet them.
