Winchester came out with a new rifle round called the 350 Legend. All the ads look great but no real numbers have been released. This round seems perfect for the eastern woods deer hunter, and there are plenty of places that allow only straight wall rifle rounds.
Frankly, the 450 bushmaster and the 45-70 are needlessly powerful; for woods deer. Frankly something in the energy range of a 30-30 is all you ever really need. This is suppose to be light kicking and I think it would be well accepted.
But, if it stays only in the Winchester rifle I think it won't go far. If AR uppers are made and if Ruger comes out with the American in that round it will be greatly accepted.
Not as much taper as the 450 bushmaster. But you can't headspace on a taper so the 450 Bushmaster headspaces on the mouth. That's why they say to not roll crimp the 450 bushmaster, taper crimp only. Same here I imagine.
Looks like it would make a fantastic revolver cartridge, just need to put a rim on it. You could chamber it in a Ruger Blackhawk with maybe a stretched frame and cylinder, or I bet it would go really great in a T/C Contender....
I'm in one of the areas where we must use the straight wall case. I'm finding it interesting that Winchester is giving us the hype but not the data. "More energy than a 30-30" is a BS fact. The 450 Bushmaster has better energy than a 30-30, but is it not nearly as effective of a hunting cartridge (I've used both). What about velocity, BC, SD, and bullet construction?
Lack of info makes me skeptical. I'm guessing by using a case in the 1.7" (rather than the Michigan max of 1.8") area that they are also targeting the AR market. This then leads me to believe, that this is designed around a MOP in the 40,000 psi area. This would not be too exciting. However, make high quality bullets and brass available to handloaders who will push this puppy towards 60,000 psi in a bolt gun in it could become real interesting. We shall see.
FYI for those of you outside the Great Lakes area, this straight wall thing is a big deal for us. Until recently we have been slug guns or muzzle loaders. Here in lower MI, the 450 Bushmaster has absolutely changed the game. We kill over 400,000 deer per year in our state, most in the southern lower peninsula. That equates to a lot of straight wall cartridges.
I'm in one of the areas where we must use the straight wall case. I'm finding it interesting that Winchester is giving us the hype but not the data. "More energy than a 30-30" is a BS fact. The 450 Bushmaster has better energy than a 30-30, but is it not nearly as effective of a hunting cartridge (I've used both). What about velocity, BC, SD, and bullet construction?
Lack of info makes me skeptical. I'm guessing by using a case in the 1.7" (rather than the Michigan max of 1.8") area that they are also targeting the AR market. This then leads me to believe, that this is designed around a MOP in the 40,000 psi area. This would not be too exciting. However, make high quality bullets and brass available to handloaders who will push this puppy towards 60,000 psi in a bolt gun in it could become real interesting. We shall see.
FYI for those of you outside the Great Lakes area, this straight wall thing is a big deal for us. Until recently we have been slug guns or muzzle loaders. Here in lower MI, the 450 Bushmaster has absolutely changed the game. We kill over 400,000 deer per year in our state, most in the southern lower peninsula. That equates to a lot of straight wall cartridges.
405wcf
Exactly, a new range of cartridges to fit within the regulations. I'm talking with barrel, bullet and reamer folks right now on a 41 cal version. Using 308 basic.
Exactly, a new range of cartridges to fit within the regulations. I'm talking with barrel, bullet and reamer folks right now on a 41 cal version. Using 308 basic.
I know somebody who did that. They slapped it on a Mauser action. It's alright!
Who cares Winchester has adopted your wildcat.. all those sleepless nights in Montana and Florida have finally paid off.. what you going to do with your royalty checks?
Exactly, a new range of cartridges to fit within the regulations. I'm talking with barrel, bullet and reamer folks right now on a 41 cal version. Using 308 basic.
I know somebody who did that. They slapped it on a Mauser action. It's alright!
Can you pm me some information on that please, it may shorten my development time. Thanks, Mark
I may not buy it, but the new(kinda) stuff does not bother me.
Marketing WANK does bother me. I hate it.
A slew of Nearlys and Almosts are on the way.....
I decided during the WSM/WSSM fad that I was going to stick with traditional, readily avl. cartridges and guns.
I have not suffered any on performance in either hunting or target shooting, and can afford to get more ammo and guns to shoot with by ignoring the fads.
The target, deer, hogs, coyotes, and targets don't know the difference.
I may not buy it, but the new(kinda) stuff does not bother me.
Marketing WANK does bother me. I hate it.
A slew of Nearlys and Almosts are on the way.....
I decided during the WSM/WSSM fad that I was going to stick with traditional, readily avl. cartridges and guns.
I have not suffered any on performance in either hunting or target shooting, and can afford to get more ammo and guns to shoot with by ignoring the fads.
The target, deer, hogs, coyotes, and targets don't know the difference.
We have a reamer for 22 Nosler. About as crazy as we get anymore.
Nope, straight wall, 35 caliber or larger, with less than 1.80" case length.
Or, you can trim those cartridge cases back to less than 1.80" and seat your bullets long or where-ever you like, and rock on. One of our members has done this and talked with MiDNR about it, with their approval.
I'm in one of the areas where we must use the straight wall case. I'm finding it interesting that Winchester is giving us the hype but not the data. "More energy than a 30-30" is a BS fact. The 450 Bushmaster has better energy than a 30-30, but is it not nearly as effective of a hunting cartridge (I've used both). What about velocity, BC, SD, and bullet construction?
Lack of info makes me skeptical. I'm guessing by using a case in the 1.7" (rather than the Michigan max of 1.8") area that they are also targeting the AR market. This then leads me to believe, that this is designed around a MOP in the 40,000 psi area. This would not be too exciting. However, make high quality bullets and brass available to handloaders who will push this puppy towards 60,000 psi in a bolt gun in it could become real interesting. We shall see.
FYI for those of you outside the Great Lakes area, this straight wall thing is a big deal for us. Until recently we have been slug guns or muzzle loaders. Here in lower MI, the 450 Bushmaster has absolutely changed the game. We kill over 400,000 deer per year in our state, most in the southern lower peninsula. That equates to a lot of straight wall cartridges.
405wcf
Yup, the 450 BM makes a fantastic brush caliber, I can't think of a caliber that would do what the 450 BM does in the Michigan brush.
Unfortunately, it is much easier to find fault with the .375 than it is to find inherent qualities. Both factory and hand loads produce very poor muzzle velocities. Impact velocities are generally so low that the .375 struggles to produce disproportionate to caliber wounding. Where shot placement is not sound, the .375 can be a slow killer. Readers must understand that most conventional bullet designs struggle to expand at impact velocities below 1800fps, even though .375 Winchester bullets are designed to expand down to impact velocities of 1600fps. From a muzzle velocity of 2200fps, this leaves only a very small performance window. Were this cartridge loaded with a heavy Hornady XTP things may have been a lot different, but alas, there is no such bullet.
The one saving grace of this cartridge is that it the .375” bore is fairly wide to begin with while its heavy bullets are capable of delivering relatively deep penetration. Were it not for these factors, I am sure many game animals would not be recovered. But with the combination of a large bullet diameter and heavy flat pointed bullets, the .375 is able to produce reliable results.
As a lean game cartridge (such as hunting Black Tail in Oregon pines), the .375 bullets work acceptably well. But in truth wounds are not generally wider than that achieved with the .30-30 loaded with 150 grain bullets. There are certainly many stories as to how well this cartridge ‘flattens’ game but all too often we find that such things came about as a result of a spine shot which tells very little of what a cartridge is capable of when the chips are down. These matters aside, the .375 Winchester can be put to use on lean game, producing clean kills from pretty much any angle.
The .375 Winchester has some merit as a cartridge for use on larger bodied deer in heavy timber. Any velocity gains made via hand loading (safely) can be put to meaningful use. This is where this cartridge really comes into its own, fulfilling a role where the .30-30 is very much lacking.
It is extremely unwise to utilize the .375 as a ‘big game stopper’ as some seem to believe this cartridge is capable of achieving. At best the .375 can be considered a humble, clean killer of medium weight non-dangerous game. I am sure many would disagree with this but the truth is, were it any other way, this would be a much more popular cartridge. Sometimes being able to ‘eat up to the bullet hole’ is a good thing. Other times this description simply alludes to the fact that you might just get eaten yourself one day.
In order to optimize performance, hunters should strive to place shots into the forwards portion of game chest cavities (see .30-30 and also Game Killing section) to destroy the autonomic plexus along with the major locomotive muscles and bones. Those who are fans of the traditional .30-30WCF can view the .375 as being of a similar nature but with the ability to produce deeper penetration. Thoughts of wider wounding should be put aside.
Jeez Jeff, you gonna beat that dead horse till it's mummified? The old man was, just that an old man. He was wrong to advocate magazine limits. Not everyone gets it completely.
He did a whole lot of good for our sport by inventing and producing durable reliable affordable guns to the public.
We hunt in Iowa for deer season and they require either slugs, muzzleloader or straight wall cartridge. It looks interesting to me from that perspective. I could see several makers pick it up for a light bolt action rifle.
We hunt in Iowa for deer season and they require either slugs, muzzleloader or straight wall cartridge. It looks interesting to me from that perspective. I could see several makers pick it up for a light bolt action rifle.
we can use the 45-70 and the 444 in Iowa so the question would be why?
I'm in one of the areas where we must use the straight wall case. I'm finding it interesting that Winchester is giving us the hype but not the data. "More energy than a 30-30" is a BS fact. The 450 Bushmaster has better energy than a 30-30, but is it not nearly as effective of a hunting cartridge (I've used both). What about velocity, BC, SD, and bullet construction?
Lack of info makes me skeptical. I'm guessing by using a case in the 1.7" (rather than the Michigan max of 1.8") area that they are also targeting the AR market. This then leads me to believe, that this is designed around a MOP in the 40,000 psi area. This would not be too exciting. However, make high quality bullets and brass available to handloaders who will push this puppy towards 60,000 psi in a bolt gun in it could become real interesting. We shall see.
FYI for those of you outside the Great Lakes area, this straight wall thing is a big deal for us. Until recently we have been slug guns or muzzle loaders. Here in lower MI, the 450 Bushmaster has absolutely changed the game. We kill over 400,000 deer per year in our state, most in the southern lower peninsula. That equates to a lot of straight wall cartridges.
405wcf
Exactly, a new range of cartridges to fit within the regulations. I'm talking with barrel, bullet and reamer folks right now on a 41 cal version. Using 308 basic.
Mark, The 45 Raptor is built on the 308 basic, 1.8" case firing .452" bullet. Gunsmith in Lansing has the reamer; Krieger and Shilen make the barrels; Starline makes the brass; and you use 460 S&W dies. Saves a bunch of cash.
Jim My 450 Bushmaster is a CVA single shot, 1 shot 1 deer in 2018. Don't get me wrong love AR's just not for deer. Bought the rifle to play with .452 cast bullets
It should take a little flack off the 6.5 CM from the old farts. They can discuss how the 351 SL was first/better and how they used one to track down Bonnie & Clyde.
I'm in one of the areas where we must use the straight wall case. I'm finding it interesting that Winchester is giving us the hype but not the data. "More energy than a 30-30" is a BS fact. The 450 Bushmaster has better energy than a 30-30, but is it not nearly as effective of a hunting cartridge (I've used both). What about velocity, BC, SD, and bullet construction?
Lack of info makes me skeptical. I'm guessing by using a case in the 1.7" (rather than the Michigan max of 1.8") area that they are also targeting the AR market. This then leads me to believe, that this is designed around a MOP in the 40,000 psi area. This would not be too exciting. However, make high quality bullets and brass available to handloaders who will push this puppy towards 60,000 psi in a bolt gun in it could become real interesting. We shall see.
FYI for those of you outside the Great Lakes area, this straight wall thing is a big deal for us. Until recently we have been slug guns or muzzle loaders. Here in lower MI, the 450 Bushmaster has absolutely changed the game. We kill over 400,000 deer per year in our state, most in the southern lower peninsula. That equates to a lot of straight wall cartridges.
405wcf
Exactly, a new range of cartridges to fit within the regulations. I'm talking with barrel, bullet and reamer folks right now on a 41 cal version. Using 308 basic.
Mark, The 45 Raptor is built on the 308 basic, 1.8" case firing .452" bullet. Gunsmith in Lansing has the reamer; Krieger and Shilen make the barrels; Starline makes the brass; and you use 460 S&W dies. Saves a bunch of cash.
Anything like this, taper crimp, coupled with an appropriate powder to fill the case to compression so the bullet CANT set back, I do that in all my auto load/self defense rifle/pistol ammo.
We hunt in Iowa for deer season and they require either slugs, muzzleloader or straight wall cartridge. It looks interesting to me from that perspective. I could see several makers pick it up for a light bolt action rifle.
we can use the 45-70 and the 444 in Iowa so the question would be why?
Winchester came out with a new rifle round called the 350 Legend. All the ads look great but no real numbers have been released. This round seems perfect for the eastern woods deer hunter, and there are plenty of places that allow only straight wall rifle rounds.
Frankly, the 450 bushmaster and the 45-70 are needlessly powerful; for woods deer. Frankly something in the energy range of a 30-30 is all you ever really need. This is suppose to be light kicking and I think it would be well accepted.
But, if it stays only in the Winchester rifle I think it won't go far. If AR uppers are made and if Ruger comes out with the American in that round it will be greatly accepted. [/b]
Thoughts?
This^^^. If Ruger brings it out in the Ruger American Ranch, it will be a hit. I hate the name, but I like the idea.
Looks like it would make a fantastic revolver cartridge, just need to put a rim on it. You could chamber it in a Ruger Blackhawk with maybe a stretched frame and cylinder, or I bet it would go really great in a T/C Contender....
the ones that have finally pulled their heads out of their azzes about shotgun slug laws. Don't expect great things from the other slug states anytime soon
Personally, I would be embarrassed to use an AR deer hunting. No offense to anyone intended. Just a personal thing.
Thank you Mr. Zumbo!
Had to duckduckgo it . . . First I've ever heard of him. Not me, for sure!
Jim Zumbo Occupation writer, editor Jim Zumbo is a firearms and hunting commentator and writer. Until February 2007, he was the hunting editor for Outdoor Life magazine and host of the television program Jim Zumbo Outdoors on The Outdoor Channel. He was removed from both positions after he criticized the use of semi-automatic rifles such as the AR-15 and AK-47 for hunting in his blog. On July 3, 2007 Zumbo's TV show went back on the air.
On February 16, 2007, Zumbo published an entry on his blog which read, in part:
I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue. Only once in my life have I ever seen anyone using one of these firearms.
I call them "assault" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing assault rifles that are "tackdrivers."
Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."
This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the prairies [sic] and woods.[2]
Personally, I would be embarrassed to use an AR deer hunting. No offense to anyone intended. Just a personal thing.
Thank you Mr. Zumbo!
Had to duckduckgo it . . . First I've ever heard of him. Not me, for sure!
I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue. Only once in my life have I ever seen anyone using one of these firearms.
I call them "assault" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing assault rifles that are "tackdrivers."
Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."
This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the prairies [sic] and woods.
Umm...
Not trying to be confrontational here, but you did indeed offer the abridged version of what he said.
Personally, I would be embarrassed to use an AR deer hunting. No offense to anyone intended. Just a personal thing.
Thank you Mr. Zumbo!
Had to duckduckgo it . . . First I've ever heard of him. Not me, for sure!
I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue. Only once in my life have I ever seen anyone using one of these firearms.
I call them "assault" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing assault rifles that are "tackdrivers."
Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."
This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the prairies [sic] and woods.
Umm...
Not trying to be confrontational here, but you did indeed offer the abridged version of what he said.
I wouldn't doubt that Ohio joining the growing list of state to add straight walled cartridges to their list of legal deer weapons caused more push for this cartridge. As with any new cartridge, we'll see if it stands the test of time.
So far OrangeOkie doesn't know why AR's embarrass him and nobody seems to know what state this cartridge is marketed to.
Michigan for one in many locations it is either shotgun, muzzle loader or a straight wall center fire less than 1.8”. Ohio also I believe.
There better be a LOT of deer hunters there.
Otherwise this thing is dead before it gets off the ground.
Michigan alone has more than 700,000 firearm deer hunters. I'd SWAG that maybe 1/3 of those hunt in Zone 3 Southern Lower Michigan. That's a lot of hunters. Randy's in Bad Axe, MI is the guy who worked with a distributor to have Ruger make the American in 450 Bushmaster. I think it was 1000? Sold out in weeks. So did the next order of 2200~. The next year they are a Ruger cataloged item. 1/2 dozen other manufacturers are chambering it. Including Christensen Arms' Mesa, which is a hell of a nice rifle btw.
It could actually have a niche in the AR market. Load it down to subsonic levels and it would be a very nice, big hole making, suppressed round along the lines of the Russian 9x39. Load it hot and it would be twenty rounds or so of a .357 magnum on steroids for home defense. In a pencil barreled lightweight AR, it would be 21st Century equivalent of a Winchester 92 for all around use.
It could actually have a niche in the AR market. Load it down to subsonic levels and it would be a very nice, big hole making, suppressed round along the lines of the Russian 9x39. Load it hot and it would be twenty rounds or so of a .357 magnum on steroids for home defense. In a pencil barreled lightweight AR, it would be 21st Century equivalent of a Winchester 92 for all around use.
I agree. Could be a market there, along with the straight wall hunting areas.
We are getting 2,850 fps out of our version (trim length of 1.595") with 110 gr Hornady FTX .357s
Heavy subs will be a problem... Seating depth on say 250s to 350s will bulge the case internally and prevent cambering. Best guess on subs will be a max of 200 or 225s... not sure yet... we are still messing around...
Working with 125, 140s FTXs and XTPs and 158s now... 180s also, but IMHO the sweet speed is going to be 140gr - 158gr.
Not trying to be confrontational here, but you did indeed offer the abridged version of what he said.
I reposted what he wrote just for the convenience of others who may never have heard of him or his (highlighted) ignorant personal opinions. Like I said, none of that applies to me. My exposure and use of ARs is strictly limited to the Marine Corps and for me, they are useful today only as a personal defense weapon, not a hunting rifle I would carry to the field. I would simply feel a little bit like an important, self conscious "Barney Fife" carrying a military rifle out in the woods. Just my personal opinion. To each his own.
Michigan alone has more than 700,000 firearm deer hunters. I'd SWAG that maybe 1/3 of those hunt in Zone 3 Southern Lower Michigan. That's a lot of hunters. Randy's in Bad Axe, MI is the guy who worked with a distributor to have Ruger make the American in 450 Bushmaster. I think it was 1000? Sold out in weeks. So did the next order of 2200~. The next year they are a Ruger cataloged item. 1/2 dozen other manufacturers are chambering it. Including Christensen Arms' Mesa, which is a hell of a nice rifle btw.
Limited runs of existing cartridges in existing platforms make a lot of sense.
It could actually have a niche in the AR market. Load it down to subsonic levels and it would be a very nice, big hole making, suppressed round along the lines of the Russian 9x39. Load it hot and it would be twenty rounds or so of a .357 magnum on steroids for home defense. In a pencil barreled lightweight AR, it would be 21st Century equivalent of a Winchester 92 for all around use.
Not trying to be confrontational here, but you did indeed offer the abridged version of what he said.
I reposted what he wrote just for the convenience of others who may never have heard of him or his (highlighted) ignorant personal opinions. Like I said, none of that applies to me. My exposure and use of ARs is strictly limited to the Marine Corps and for me, they are useful today only as a personal defense weapon, not a hunting rifle I would carry to the field. I would simply feel a little bit like an important, self conscious "Barney Fife" carrying a military rifle out in the woods. Just my personal opinion. To each his own.
What do you feel is acceptable and fashionable to take hunting?
If I was trying to dance around 1.8" case length hunting laws, I would probably trim a .45-70 to 1.800" and move on down the line... bullet jump on big bore is not very important... Or simple shoot a .454c
It could actually have a niche in the AR market. Load it down to subsonic levels and it would be a very nice, big hole making, suppressed round along the lines of the Russian 9x39. Load it hot and it would be twenty rounds or so of a .357 magnum on steroids for home defense. In a pencil barreled lightweight AR, it would be 21st Century equivalent of a Winchester 92 for all around use.
Heavy subs will be a problem... Seating depth on say 250s to 350s will bulge the case internally and prevent cambering. Best guess on subs will be a max of 200 or 225s... not sure yet... we are still messing around...
It could actually have a niche in the AR market. Load it down to subsonic levels and it would be a very nice, big hole making, suppressed round along the lines of the Russian 9x39. Load it hot and it would be twenty rounds or so of a .357 magnum on steroids for home defense. In a pencil barreled lightweight AR, it would be 21st Century equivalent of a Winchester 92 for all around use.
Not trying to be confrontational here, but you did indeed offer the abridged version of what he said.
I reposted what he wrote just for the convenience of others who may never have heard of him or his (highlighted) ignorant personal opinions. Like I said, none of that applies to me. My exposure and use of ARs is strictly limited to the Marine Corps and for me, they are useful today only as a personal defense weapon, not a hunting rifle I would carry to the field. I would simply feel a little bit like an important, self conscious "Barney Fife" carrying a military rifle out in the woods. Just my personal opinion. To each his own.
I understand why you posted the Zumbo effect wording he used.
The difference is, you what works for "you". That is fine. But your personal opinion of hunting with them pretty much mirrors Zumbo's.
Zumbo spouted off his opinion that nobody should hunt with them because HE didn't like them. That's what very, very nearly cost him his career.
I respect your views.
But, I bet if you came down here for a weekend, I could change your mind about them.
I pretty much hunt exclusively with an AR now.
Their accuracy got my attention first. So I bought one, and learned how to use it. Still accurate as any bolt rifle I have... But, when calling coyotes and you have 8 or more coyotes coming in at one time on a stand, it's nice to concentrate on just shooting as many as you can (with aimed fire just like a bolt rifle), but without working the bolt, removing the rifle from your shoulder, and reloading.
Pretty nice to have when hog hunting as well.
Granted, 95% of my hunting resulting in dead animals only takes one shot. But the extras in the mag are nice to have just in case.
Not to mention having a rifle for self defense that you are used to shooting, know where it hits, and are familiar with.
It could actually have a niche in the AR market. Load it down to subsonic levels and it would be a very nice, big hole making, suppressed round along the lines of the Russian 9x39. Load it hot and it would be twenty rounds or so of a .357 magnum on steroids for home defense. In a pencil barreled lightweight AR, it would be 21st Century equivalent of a Winchester 92 for all around use.
We hunt in Iowa for deer season and they require either slugs, muzzleloader or straight wall cartridge. It looks interesting to me from that perspective. I could see several makers pick it up for a light bolt action rifle.
we can use the 45-70 and the 444 in Iowa so the question would be why?
My .45/70 out of a Marlin lever gun is OK with accuracy to 130-150 yards but a lighter recoiling round in a accurate bolt gun might be able to extend that range by another 50 yards or so
Heavy subs will be a problem... Seating depth on say 250s to 350s will bulge the case internally and prevent cambering. Best guess on subs will be a max of 200 or 225s... not sure yet... we are still messing around...
Moleman used an inside reamer on the cases.
One of the guys played with inside reaming and got case separations. Besides... inside reaming is a real PITA.
--------------------------------------------
SO... while trimming some .223 Basic brass for Danny... I decided to leave the trimmer set at 1.595" and try a couple of pieces of 5.56...
It is showing promise...
IMHO it will require a neck expand and a retrim, BUT brass is basically free... and maybe, just maybe a 1.592" trim would leave the brass at 1.595" after the expand (eliminating the retrim step), but alas I am only good at trial and error vs. "real Trigonometry", but maybe y'all want to try this...
AND MAYBE... This is why the .350 Legend is 1.710" and not 1.595"... to keep us cheapskates from doing just this.
I don’t know. I mean puzzies think that a 30-06 recoils a lot, so I suppose it is all subjective based on the tenderness of your vagina.
You must have a raw one then.
You sure said that a .270 leaves you black and blue, but a 30-06 had no recoil.
LOL. (All in the same thread..)
Originally Posted by JoeBob
The 30-06 doesn’t recoil, it can be made in an extremely light rifle, and it is accurate out to all reasonable distances. More and more, I’m just happy to be bored. And I say that while being a huge fan of the mild non magnum 7mm’s, which also work great in my opinion.
Originally Posted by JoeBob
My first centerfire deer rifle at 12 was the much feared 700 ADL with a wood stock in .270. I thought a black and blue shoulder was just part of the game.
I gotta hand it you... That WAS an entertaining thread.
I'm not sure about all the butt hurt about things. Lashing out at everyone that uses something you don't seems pretty damned adolescent to me. The 350 legend wouldn't be my cup o tea but if it helps someone then good. Companies have to make money and new loadings has always been good for business. If it helps those brothers that hunt in states that only allow stuff like that then its really good. The AR is a good platform and is wildly popular. At present they can be made to shoot very well for those that know how to drive them.
To my way of thinking there really isn't any viable reason to put down anyone that shoots. Some people like to hunt with cartridges that were obsolete with the advent of smokeless powder but they are still as deadly as they were when they were popular so good on them. We're all in the same boat so why fight amongst ourselves. The enemy isn't us or at least shouldn't be.
I'm all for anything someone wants to use. It's called freedom.
Ignorant Fudds will throw anyone under the bus that doesn't think like they do. There are definite traitors among our own ranks.
Their very utterances can and will be used against us. The Anti's peruse this, and all other sites to find just the right cherries to pick. They use our posts against us, they use our pictures against us. They use anything they can to push their own cart down the road.
It's time we understood that and showed some unity.
It's better now than it used to be, but we still have work to do.
Another area of idiocy is some state Game Dept's or Commissions. They regulate the hell out of hunting.
You would think that some Einstein would click to the fact that to keep hunting alive and interesting to upcoming generations, they should be encouraging them instead of restricting them.
Not trying to be confrontational here, but you did indeed offer the abridged version of what he said.
I reposted what he wrote just for the convenience of others who may never have heard of him or his (highlighted) ignorant personal opinions. Like I said, none of that applies to me. My exposure and use of ARs is strictly limited to the Marine Corps and for me, they are useful today only as a personal defense weapon, not a hunting rifle I would carry to the field. I would simply feel a little bit like an important, self conscious "Barney Fife" carrying a military rifle out in the woods. Just my personal opinion. To each his own.
What do you feel is acceptable and fashionable to take hunting?
Well skinny jeans, t-shirt with the tribal art, monster energy flatbilled hat... and my uncle joe double barreled shotgun..
I'm all for anything someone wants to use. It's called freedom.
Ignorant Fudds will throw anyone under the bus that doesn't think like they do. There are definite traitors among our own ranks.
Their very utterances can and will be used against us. The Anti's peruse this, and all other sites to find just the right cherries to pick. They use our posts against us, they use our pictures against us. They use anything they can to push their own cart down the road.
It's time we understood that and showed some unity.
It's better now than it used to be, but we still have work to do.
Another area of idiocy is some state Game Dept's or Commissions. They regulate the hell out of hunting.
You would think that some Einstein would click to the fact that to keep hunting alive and interesting to upcoming generations, they should be encouraging them instead of restricting them.
Indeed correct... 350 Legend or our version (.358 Macho (that was a joke BTW))... are a fantastic idea for certain new shooters (that have not learned recoil management yet), as well as ladies and teens etc.
I swear... some days this site is nothing but menopausal mother-in-law nags... pretending to love guns
Jeez Jeff, you gonna beat that dead horse till it's mummified? The old man was, just that an old man. He was wrong to advocate magazine limits. Not everyone gets it completely.
He did a whole lot of good for our sport by inventing and producing durable reliable affordable guns to the public.
I'll step off my soap box now
I enjoy myself. Even if I did buy a new Ruger about 2 years ago. LOL. Everytime I think of that old plucker I get pissed off.
How many of you would like this new round if it were chambered in the AR platform?
I'm sure there will be barreled uppers out by summer. I'll get one. I've always liked this power range for Whitetails in Georgia. Swamp bottom, pine thickets and oak grove shooting inside 200 yards.
Always kept a .357 Mag carbine for this purpose, whether a Marlin, Henry or H&R single shot. Been wanting to try a .357 Rem Maximum for years in a T/C Carbine.
Well now hear it is...
I'd even get a Winchester XPR Hunter Compact 20" barrel, should be a sweet little deer rifle.
. . . But, I bet if you came down here for a weekend, I could change your mind about them.
I pretty much hunt exclusively with an AR now.
Their accuracy got my attention first. So I bought one, and learned how to use it. Still accurate as any bolt rifle I have... But, when calling coyotes and you have 8 or more coyotes coming in at one time on a stand, it's nice to concentrate on just shooting as many as you can (with aimed fire just like a bolt rifle), but without working the bolt, removing the rifle from your shoulder, and reloading.
Pretty nice to have when hog hunting as well.
Granted, 95% of my hunting resulting in dead animals only takes one shot. But the extras in the mag are nice to have just in case.
Not to mention having a rifle for self defense that you are used to shooting, know where it hits, and are familiar with.
Jeez Jeff, you gonna beat that dead horse till it's mummified? The old man was, just that an old man. He was wrong to advocate magazine limits. Not everyone gets it completely.
He did a whole lot of good for our sport by inventing and producing durable reliable affordable guns to the public.
I'll step off my soap box now
I enjoy myself. Even if I did buy a new Ruger about 2 years ago. LOL. Everytime I think of that old plucker I get pissed off.
Well, just miss yer toes when yer pissin' and you'll be fine. Old Bill pissed me off too, but I can't take it out on the current company.
Jeez Jeff, you gonna beat that dead horse till it's mummified? The old man was, just that an old man. He was wrong to advocate magazine limits. Not everyone gets it completely.
He did a whole lot of good for our sport by inventing and producing durable reliable affordable guns to the public.
I'll step off my soap box now
I enjoy myself. Even if I did buy a new Ruger about 2 years ago. LOL. Everytime I think of that old plucker I get pissed off.
Well, just miss yer toes when yer pissin' and you'll be fine. Old Bill pissed me off too, but I can't take it out on the current company.
Jeez Jeff, you gonna beat that dead horse till it's mummified? The old man was, just that an old man. He was wrong to advocate magazine limits. Not everyone gets it completely.
He did a whole lot of good for our sport by inventing and producing durable reliable affordable guns to the public.
I'll step off my soap box now
I enjoy myself. Even if I did buy a new Ruger about 2 years ago. LOL. Everytime I think of that old plucker I get pissed off.
Well, just miss yer toes when yer pissin' and you'll be fine. Old Bill pissed me off too, but I can't take it out on the current company.
S&W made some mistakes as well.
We gots to move on.
Funny how folks forget the ol Smith and Wesson boondoggle with the Government..
If you are talking that agreement with the Clinton Administration, S+W changed hands a year later. Tompkins lost about 90 million in that transaction. I think they got punished.
If you are talking that agreement with the Clinton Administration, S+W changed hands a year later. Tompkins lost about 90 million in that transaction. I think they got punished.
So Ruger needs to go bankrupt be bought out and all is good and forgotten......................................... Uh OK
If you are talking that agreement with the Clinton Administration, S+W changed hands a year later. Tompkins lost about 90 million in that transaction. I think they got punished.
Sat at the table with Schumer throughout the whole ordeal just nodding their heads. When it came time to activate plan Pinko, Glock's lawyers just shrugged.
Jeez Jeff, you gonna beat that dead horse till it's mummified? The old man was, just that an old man. He was wrong to advocate magazine limits. Not everyone gets it completely.
He did a whole lot of good for our sport by inventing and producing durable reliable affordable guns to the public.
I'll step off my soap box now
I enjoy myself. Even if I did buy a new Ruger about 2 years ago. LOL. Everytime I think of that old plucker I get pissed off.
Well, just miss yer toes when yer pissin' and you'll be fine. Old Bill pissed me off too, but I can't take it out on the current company.
I'm thinking when a Remage barrel becomes available I'm going to put one on my 700adl. Then probably mount it in a youth stock. We have several youngsters coming to the age to hunt deer.
I wish they would have released it as a “pistol” cartridge. Idaho, for example, allows straight walled cartridges originally designed for pistols. A 350 Legend in an AR pistol would have been a sweet setup in a short range special season.
I'm thinking when a Remage barrel becomes available I'm going to put one on my 700adl. Then probably mount it in a youth stock. We have several youngsters coming to the age to hunt deer.
, pass my 45-70 Shiloh Sharps please.
it chunks 250gr barnes x's.
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