Lovely people, bringing communism, hollywood, the US press, and corruption to our doorstep.

God chose them to completely destroy western civilization...apparently.

Bowsinger in 3...2...1...

The USS Liberty investigation has been beat to death on this forum before.
I have asked many times for any reason for Israel to have deliberately attacked our ship.

No answer.

You can start well before the Greeks. It DOES beg the question...

Hah! You called it.

https://www.realclearhistory.com/historiat/2018/06/06/why_did_israel_attack_uss_liberty_319.html

Why Did Israel Attack USS Liberty?
By Richard Brownell
June 06, 2018
Israel and the United States have been allies for decades. However, during the 1967 Six-Day War, a conflict in which the U.S. vowed to remain neutral, Israel launched a devastating strike on a U.S. naval vessel in international waters. Thirty-four were killed, 171 injured, and the ship suffered severe damage. Both countries officially labeled the attack an accident, but questions have surrounded the event ever since.

The Six-Day War was the result of longstanding disputes between Israel and its Arab neighbors. Despite winning two wars in 1948 and 1956, Israel continued to face existential threats from a coalition of nations led by Egypt. In early 1967, Israel engaged in several border clashes with Syria and Jordan. Egypt, which entered a mutual defense pact with Syria and Jordan, blocked Israeli access to the Straits of Tiran in May and massed its forces in the Sinai Peninsula on Israel’s border. On June 5, Israel launched a surprise attack against Egyptian troops in the Sinai, and war began.


The United States vowed to remain neutral in the conflict, but kept a military presence in the region. The USS Liberty, a World War II-era cargo ship refitted as a surveillance vessel, was deployed to the eastern Mediterranean in the days leading up to the war. Its mission was to gather signals intelligence on Israel’s Arab opponents and their Soviet advisers and monitor the situation from international waters off the coast of Sinai, Egypt.

In the morning hours of June 8, 1967, the Israeli aerial reconnaissance spotted an unidentified ship 70 miles off the coast of Gaza. Three hours later, a second reconnaissance flight spotted an unidentified ship 20 miles off the coast of nearby El-Arish. The Israeli Air Force notified the Israeli naval command that these two sightings were the USS Liberty. The ship was marked as neutral and removed from the threat board.

Shortly afterward, the Israeli military received word that El-Arish was under naval bombardment. This report turned out to be an error, but that was not discovered until long after three torpedo boats were dispatched to investigate. The boats spotted a vessel in the vicinity of El-Arish and, based on its speed and its profile, assumed it was an unmarked Egyptian destroyer. The boats called in the ship’s position to the Israeli Air Force.

The vessel in question was, in fact, the Liberty. The crew had just finished a routine attack drill, and was in stand-down mode. At just before 2 p.m. local time, four Israeli fighter planes strafed the Liberty with 30-mm cannons and rocket fire. Several crew members were killed, communications equipment was damaged, and the ship’s flag was knocked down.

The aircraft disengaged, receiving word that the ship was “apparently American,” according to declassified transcripts from the incident. The torpedo boats, however, continued their approach.

The Liberty spotted the torpedo boats and prepared to mount a defense. Captain William McGonagle spotted the Israeli flag on the boats and ordered his men not to fire, but the order was not received by all the ship’s gunners. The torpedo boats took a burst of machine gun fire and responded with several torpedoes and cannons.

When the air and sea attack was over, 34 crew members of the Liberty were dead, and 171 more were wounded, including McGonagle. The ship sustained major damage and barely escaped being sunk.

Once communications were back on line, it was confirmed that the Israelis had attacked an American ship. The Israeli government promptly apologized for the attack and paid millions of dollars to the U.S. government and to the men wounded in the attack.

There were several investigations conducted into the incident by the U.S. Navy, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the CIA, the U.S. House and Senate, and the NSA. Most of the final reports avoid assigning culpability for the incident and focus on communication breakdowns and matters of protocol. Israeli investigations into the matter similarly blamed lack of communications and found no reason for anyone involved to face criminal charges.

Some veterans of the USS Liberty and other investigators reached a different conclusion. They believe that the Liberty was deliberately attacked and that both the U.S. and Israel covered it up in a hasty investigation. They point to several holes in the official story based on the published reports and declassified communications.

In the days leading up to the attack, Israeli officials claim that they repeatedly warned U.S. ships to steer clear of the coast because any unidentified ships would automatically be considered hostile. American naval and government officials claim that no inquiries were made about the position of American ships until after the attack on the Liberty.

Israeli pilots who flew over the Liberty during the reconnaissance and the attack claim that they did not see any identifying markings on the ship. Liberty crew members maintain that the ship’s designation as an American vessel was plain by her hull markings and that the American flag was flying at full mast when the aerial attack began. Visual confirmation by the Israelis also suggested that the Liberty looked very similar to the Egyptian ship El Quseir. See if you can spot the difference between the two boats.

The Israeli torpedo boats believed that the ship was a combat vessel because they tracked it at a speed of 28 knots. The Liberty’s top speed was well below that, and its standard cruising speed during signal work was close to 5 knots.

Records indicate that Israeli Naval Operations ordered the torpedo boats to halt to the attack because the target had been incorrectly identified. The commander of the torpedo boat division claimed that he never received the order, although the deputy commander testified to having relayed the halt order to him.

There is a broad contemporary consensus that the reports conducted at the time were based on shoddy investigations. However, the question remains: Why would Israel deliberately attack the vessel of a neutral ally. Some say it was an attempt to bring the U.S. into the war on Israel’s side. Perhaps, but why? By June 8, Israel’s victory was almost assured. It did not need America’s help. Other theories include that Israel believed that America was sharing its signal information with the Egyptians, or that America had evidence of Israeli atrocities, and the attack was meant to force the U.S. to keep the information secret.

It is quite possible that what happened to the USS Liberty on June 6, 1967 was just what the Israeli and U.S. governments say it was, an accident. It wouldn’t be the first time human error led to tragedy. Sadly, it won’t be the last.

Bowser should just watch the video. It's answered clearly in there. Not knowing by now is nothing short of culpable ignorance.

No, I don't remember the U.S.S. Liberty attack because it was suppressed in the news "because Israel". I hope the souls of LBJ and McNamara are rotting in hell.

Part II

Hmm, war vessels in an area of an active war. Chit MIGHT happen. It has before, and will continue to.

Could it be on purpose? yes. Could it have been mistakes? Yes.

Will we ever know? No.

How does it affect today? It does not at all.

Carry on.

More culpable ignorance on display.

"Rick Wiles is an American radio host and pundit. He is the founder of TruNews, which is known for promoting racist and anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. Wikipedia"

So that we can not confirm their motives it's ok for jews to attack us, spy on us, corrupt our society?

Again, the same intellectual rigor that allows belief that the 9/11 attacks were perpetrated by the joos or Bush or both. Oh yeah and the Holocaust was a hoax. The endless tirades of losers blaming others for their own inadequacies.



mike r

https://chuckbaldwinlive.com/Articl...terview-With-A-USS-LIBERTY-Survivor.aspx

I am a supporter of Israel, but they did us wrong big time on this sad day.
They deliberately attacked a US vessel, for a period of hours. And then, the US government participated in the cover up.

Motive? I don't know the motive but Israel has probably the best intelligence agency in the world, they damn sure did it on purpose.

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My Interview With A USS LIBERTY Survivor
Published: Thursday, June 6, 2019
Download free computerized mp3 audio file of this column

Two days from today (June 8, 2019) is the 52nd anniversary of the unprovoked attack of the USS LIBERTY by the State of Israel that killed 34 American sailors and Marines and wounded 174. To this day, the State of Israel has never been held accountable for this despicable and dastardly attack against the people of the United States. In fact, the U.S. government and the news media have covered up this horrific attack for all of these decades.

I am using today’s column to print my recorded interview with a USS LIBERTY survivor. This man is a friend of mine. His name is Ron Kukal.

Ron was born in 1939. He grew up in Rushville, Nebraska, and now lives in Sheridan, Wyoming. He joined the Navy at the age of 20. He served 8 years in the Navy and had served 7 years when he was assigned to the LIBERTY. He was a first class petty officer and a communications supervisor on board the LIBERTY. Here is my interview with Ron Kukal (edited for space):

[Begin interview]

CB: So, Ron, why was the USS LIBERTY where it was in the Mediterranean Sea on June 8, 1967? Why was it there?

RK: We were first assigned to sail up and down the coast of Africa. We all know that the USS LIBERTY was an intelligence ship. That’s no secret anymore. We were gathering the intelligence that we were supposed to gather. And in the middle of our tour over there, we got a call (I think in the middle of the night) that we were needed to go to the Med. And none of us really knew what it was all about.

CB: Obviously, your ship was not designed for combat.

RK: Absolutely not.

CB: And you were not there for the purpose of any aggressive action.

RK: Absolutely not.

CB: So the ship was pretty much by itself? You didn’t have protective ships around you or anything like that?

RK: The only thing we were told [is] that if something would happen to us, the 6th Fleet was only about a half an hour away by jet plane. I believe our captain did request some protection, but it was refused. And they just said, “You keep yourself in international waters, and don’t worry about it. Fly the American flag, and don’t worry about it.”

CB: And that’s what the captain did? You were in international waters, and your ship was clearly identified as a United States vessel flying the U.S. flag very clearly, right?

RK: Yes. All morning long we had reconnaissance planes, which were Israeli, flying around us. The flag was definitely up there, and we were well marked: large lettering on the bow and “USS LIBERTY” on the fantail. Very, very clearly marked.

CB: And, of course, Israel is supposedly a U.S. ally, so I assume that the captain and the officers on the ship did not perceive a threat from the State of Israel before the attack.

RK: At breakfast that morning, some of the guys who were working for me had come to me; they were all excited because of the reconnaissance planes that we were experiencing topside. And I told them, “There’s really nothing to worry about. If they are Israeli, we’re flying the flag, and they’re friendly. So don’t let it bother you. Let’s just go to work, and don’t let it occupy your mind.” And that’s the way everybody felt about the whole thing.

CB: So at what time of day was it when the attack actually began?

RK: The exact time was 14:01. 2:01 in the afternoon.

CB: Ok. And how long had you been in those waters where you were? How long had the ship been there?

RK: Oh let’s see. That’s really a good question. I think we’d been there a couple of days. I’m pretty sure that we got there about the third day of the Six-Day War. And I think we were there a day or two before the attack began.

CB: How far out was the ship?

RK: We were out 12 miles—a little over 12 miles.

CB: Ok. Thank you. Where were you on the ship when the attack began?

RK: I was two decks below the main deck. About right at the water line is about where I was at, in my own compartment and in my own spaces.

CB: Did anybody on the ship have any reason to believe or suspect that they were going to be or might be attacked?

RK: No. We did have a General Quarters drill that day, which, as you know, gets everyone prepared for attacks which we might experience. We had just finished that General Quarters drill. We were just getting back to our own work spaces when the attack occurred. Pretty good time to attack somebody, I guess you might say. They are just all settled down after having a drill like that. So it was a good time, whoever ordered it. A great time. Everybody was pretty relaxed. There were guys on the top deck that were off duty sunbathing. And one of them, I think, was the executive officer, Philip Armstrong. And no, you wouldn’t say that anybody was expecting anything.

CB: And the drill you described would have been a routine matter, I would assume.

RK: This was probably a little bit more than routine. We did them routinely, but the captain—his words to us on the intercom, I think, were: “We are in a war zone, and we will do these General Quarters drills as much as possible.”

CB: But that would have been precautionary, right? He didn’t have any indication or reason to believe that an attack was imminent.

RK: No. None whatsoever. Yes, precautionary is a good way to put it.

CB: So how many officers and crew were on board the USS LIBERTY when it was attacked?

RK: Well, the total was 294.

CB: How many were killed and wounded?

RK: Well, 34 were killed: 25 down below where I was at and 9 topside. The wounded numbered 174. The ship itself is the most decorated crew for a single action in the United States Navy.

CB: So the men had finished a precautionary drill and had just settled in. They were relaxing. Some of the men were sunbathing on deck. Everybody was pretty much calm and going about their normal routine. You were two decks down. Now, the attack occurred. When you first realized that you were under attack, did you realize that it was from the State of Israel?

RK: Oh no. No, we didn’t know that. The planes that attacked us were unmarked.

CB: So they were unmarked. And what kind of aircraft were attacking you?

RK: They were French Mirage jets.

CB: So when the attack occurred, it was machine gun fire. Were there bombs dropped?

RK: Well, when the planes attacked, it was limited to machine gun fire, cannon fire, rocket fire, and they tossed some napalm at us too.

CB: And then were the aircraft reinforced with watercraft in the attack?

RK: I think it would be a half an hour to forty-five minutes into the attack [that] the torpedo boats showed up. They fired five torpedoes at us and hit us with one.

CB: At what point did you realize that you were being attacked by the State of Israel?

RK: Shortly after the attack, the Israeli Ambassador, or maybe it was the Prime Minister at the time, called on the hotline and told them [Washington] they had made a mistake and attacked the ship. So, it was shortly after the attack that everybody really knew about it, because they took responsibility and said that it was an accident.

CB: But the attack continued after they acknowledged that it was a mistake. If they went on the air that quickly, and the attack lasted an hour and a half . . .

RK: I think during that time—somehow a phone call on the hotline—I think it was the very first phone call ever made on the hotline if I remember correctly—it called, and the President got word that it was the Israelis that had done it. And the USS America was going to send help for us, and they [the U.S. government] turned those pilots around. I believe LBJ did that personally. I guess once he found out who was attacking us [Israel], he turned our help around.

CB: Do you believe that the Israelis fully intended to sink the ship? Do you believe that that was their goal?

RK: I certainly do! Yes. As a matter of fact, one of the Israeli pilots actually radioed back to—I don’t know if it was Ashdod or Tel Aviv or where it was—but said that he would not participate in this attack because it was an American ship. And those transcriptions and that voice has been on TV a couple of times where he literally said that he wouldn’t attack, and he turned back. They told him to turn around [to pursue the attack], but he flew back to their headquarters. He was jailed for several years, and when he got out of jail he came over to this country. And he actually went straight to former Congressman Pete McCloskey, and told him his story: that he would not attack an American ship.

CB: Wow. Okay. So take us through the sequence of the attack, so that we can have a feel for all they did during this hour and a half. This was 90 minutes of intense, aggressive action by sea and air, with the purpose of sinking an American ship. So take us through the attack process and the different ways in which they attacked the ship.

RK: Well, as I said, being two decks down, it’s kinda hard for me to say how many planes there were. I think there were 3 or 4 that circled around and strafed us several times. What happened to me is, at my desk I was just getting ready to sit down, and the first strafing run went by. And, actually, I didn’t know what it was. I had no clue what that was that was hitting the deck above me. What I didn’t know was that it was killing these guys just above my head about 20 feet, I guess. I’m guessing it was 30 to 45 minutes of constant strafing. And they did also fire napalm at us. So we ended up receiving machine gun and cannon fire, rocket fire and napalm until the torpedo boats got there.

CB: So the torpedo boats showed up; then they launched torpedoes. One of them hit the LIBERTY, and what else took place? I remember reading somewhere about some of the fellows on the LIBERTY trying to escape—trying to get a lifeboat or something. Walk me through that. Was there actually fire on the men who were trying to get off the ship? Am I remembering that correctly?

RK: You are. It would be Lieutenant Lloyd Peters that could tell that story about as well as anyone. Because he literally was going to testify at the court of inquiry that they fired on our lifeboats, and they literally did not want any lifeboats out there for anybody. They wanted us all dead. And so they had to get rid of those [lifeboats].

The torpedo hit I’m guessing about 30 feet from me, maybe 40. And then you know the story. As soon as I got done with my prayers, an audible voice came to me (maybe it wasn’t audible—maybe just to me). “Get down, and get down now!” is all I remember of it. And then from that point to the point of me being either pushed—or somehow I ended up on the steel deck with my nose right on the steel—and the torpedo exploded, and the shrapnel was flying through the air. It took awhile for the water to get in there. Not very long, but you could hear the shrapnel flying through the air. Killed all the men around me. There was only myself and two or three other guys that escaped from down in that area.

CB: You said 25 men died down in that area?

RK: 25 in that area. That would have been the second deck down, the third deck and the fourth deck down. That torpedo took—I think the height of that hole was something like 30-some feet. And so it encompassed a lot of decks. And it took all of the security group personnel; that was most of the men that died down there.

CB: So, after the torpedo hit and you were still alive (you and a couple of others), then what happened?

RK: Well, like I said, I heard the shrapnel flying through the air, and then the whole compartment became an instant swimming pool. I got up off the deck, and I think the water was probably to my shoulders and still rising. And a battle lantern (which all ships have on them that automatically come on when you lose power) was shining over the hatchway to the ladder that led to the deck above. I knew I had to get through that hatch and get to the ladder and get to the deck above to keep from drowning. And there were a lot of guys trying to get up the same ladder, of course. But several of us got up through there, and the only way we got through the hatchway was—they have what they call a scuttle hole in there. It’s just big enough for a man to slip through; a small hole in the middle of the hatch. And most of the guys who were up on the top deck (on the main deck) came down to help out. And they were helping pull us through that hole.

I immediately headed towards the main deck. I wanted to get out of there as quickly as possible just like everybody else. [I was] slipping and sliding in the passageways. What I was slipping and sliding in was mainly water and blood. And when I got topside, Lieutenant George Golden gave me an order to turn around and go back down below and make sure everybody got out. And so I went back down below and hollered down in that dark hole—you could hear the water sloshing around and stuff like that—trying to get some answers from somebody, and nobody answered.

CB: So I would assume by what you said that many of the men and the captain thought the ship was going to sink. Was that a concern of the captain and the crew?

RK: Yes. And that whole night we were in danger of sinking. The following morning when the sun just came over the horizon, the destroyer USS Davis came over the horizon and came up alongside of us and brought some men over. Those men went down below where the torpedo had hit and shored up those bulkheads to keep us from going to the bottom. According to the officers and the commanders, the captain, everybody else, it was never a question of were we going to sink; the question was “when?” So yes, had the USS Davis not come alongside and sent their men over to help us, we probably wouldn’t be here today.

CB: And that was at dawn the following morning?

RK: Yeah. The sun was coming over the horizon. I suppose it was 6:30 or 7:00.

CB: But you said that during the attack that U.S. aircraft were launched to come to your assistance from a U.S. aircraft carrier?

RK: USS America, yeah. That’s the aircraft carrier. I believe also the USS Saratoga launched some, and they were turned around.

CB: So those planes never arrived at your location to help you. Somebody ordered those planes to go back to the ship and to not come to your assistance?

RK: That’s correct. It was either McNamara or Johnson; I’m not sure which one it was.

CB: So either President Lyndon Johnson or Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara?

RK: That’s right.

CB: Do you believe that it was an act of God that the ship stayed afloat?

RK: There’s no question in my mind. If you take into consideration the firepower that they had compared to what we had. I don’t think that we ever fired a shot that I can remember.

CB: Do you believe there was a concerted effort by the White House and members of Congress to cover up that attack?

RK: Yes. Matter of fact, if you were to talk with Phil Turney, he will tell you that he and several others of the LIBERTY crewmen were called into a room and told that if they ever talked about this, they would be imprisoned and fined a huge amount of money.

CB: They were told that by a Navy officer?

RK: Yes. An admiral.

CB: An admiral. So when you say that there was a cover-up, that must have involved a lot of different people. So you are talking about a chain of command starting from the White House and going all the way down the command structure of the Navy? How far would this go?

RK: I guess if I could make it short and concise, I could tell you that Captain Ward Boston (who conducted the Board of Inquiry) before he died left his testimony that he was told to make the outcome of that Board that the attack was an accident. He said he had no choice. That’s written down in black and white. He was forced.

CB: So the official story from Washington—they finally did acknowledge that it was Israel that launched this attack, but then they claimed it was an accident. Was that the official story?

RK: That was the official story. Captain Boston told me, and he wrote some handwritten letters to me about this stuff. And he literally said that he was forced to make the outcome what the administration wanted—I guess what LBJ wanted.

CB: Has there ever been any due recognition for the men of the LIBERTY? You mentioned decorations.

RK: Decorations and medals were given to us, such as the Silver Star, the Bronze Star, the Navy Cross and even the Congressional Medal of Honor. The problem is that, as I understand it, medals like we earned are only earned if you are attacked by an enemy state. You don’t get them for friendly fire. They come from being attacked by an enemy. That’s never ever been straightened out. I’ve asked about it a lot of times.

CB: That’s a very good point. And given the nature of the cover-up, the media was also obviously complicit in the cover-up. I think it’s safe to say that the vast majority of the American people do not really know what happened to the USS LIBERTY. So it seems that the cover-up has been far more extensive than we might like to think. Because, unless you know somebody like you, Ron, or you happen to hear about it in some small ceremony or something of that nature, one wouldn’t even know about it. It just seems to me to have been a cover-up that extended all the way from the highest levels of government to the media and that it continues to this day. Would you agree with that?

RK: I certainly would.

CB: What is your feeling about the State of Israel now? Do you consider the State of Israel an ally of the United States?

RK: No, I think that they—I’m talking mainly about the leadership in Israel—are Zionists. Pastor, I’ll be really truthful on this. I’ve been involved with the church for many, many years. I played the piano for a church several times; I was on worship teams several times. And one of my biggest mistakes at a church right here in my hometown of Sheridan, Wyoming, was I told the story about the LIBERTY, and I told it truthfully. And I’ve got to tell you, things got pretty cold there at that church for me.

CB: Amazing. So you perceive that this infatuation that most Christians have with the State of Israel is misplaced?

RK: I certainly do! I really don’t believe that physical Israel has a thing to do with Biblical Israel at all.

CB: I totally agree with you, Ron.

Has there ever been any of the crew that you’ve talked with—survivors of this attack—have you guys ever put your minds together and come up with anything that you could figure why Israel attacked you like they did? We know it was not an accident. We know it was deliberate. We know that it was not only deliberate but they intended to sink the ship and kill the entire crew.

RK: And people have said that in very high positions. The [deputy] director of the National Security Agency back then—I think his name was Louis Tordella—he knew it was no accident. I can quote Dean Rusk who said in his book As I Saw It, “[I] didn't believe the Israelis then, and I don’t believe them now.” That’s in his book. And people in very high places, including Head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Thomas Moorer, said it was no accident. Could not have been.

I believe it was the intent of Israel to sink the LIBERTY [and] blame it on Cairo, which would draw the U.S. into the war.

CB: Ron, your story is a testament to God’s sovereign power and grace in your life and the lives of all of those crew members that survived. But I think it’s also a story that needs to be told in regard to what Israel did. And that there has been not only no accountability for what they did but not even an acknowledgement for what they did, which suggests that there is an evil nature in this that transcends politics.

RK: Oh absolutely. I think I’ve said in a couple of interviews that I believe on June 8, 1967, we looked Satan in the eye and lived to tell about it.

CB: Yep. I believe that’s true. And I think that the cover-up proves the evil nature of the offenders.

RK: Oh I believe that implicitly. To the hilt.

CB: Thank you, Ron. I’m sure this interview will help a lot of people.

[End interview]

Ladies and gentleman, can you imagine what the reaction of the U.S. government would have been if the USS LIBERTY had been attacked by Iraq, Iran or Syria—or any other country, for that matter? Yet the U.S. government not only did nothing to protect the officers and crew of the USS LIBERTY as it was being attacked by the State of Israel but it also ordered the American fighter aircraft that were enroute to protect the LIBERTY to turn around. And then the government lied about the attack and ordered a massive cover-up of the attack so as to cast no blame on the attacking country: Israel. There is not another country in the world that would be given this kind of unjust preference by our government. None! Ask yourself, “Why?”

And as you heard Ron say, when Christians are confronted with the horrific evil that the State of Israel perpetrated against a virtually defenseless U.S. Navy ship, they react with utter indifference, unbelief or even anger that anyone would dare suggest that modern Israel is capable of such an atrocity. The reason is, most Christians have been taught that Rothschild Israel created in 1948 is the rebirth of Biblical Israel. They have been indoctrinated in the egregiously erroneous belief system that the modern State of Israel is the physical home of “God’s Chosen People.” Christian Zionists such as John Hagee and countless others have told Christians for over 70 years that in order to have God’s blessing, America must “bless” this modern Zionist State of Israel. But nothing could be further from the truth.

I have a 15-message, 8-DVD series that sets the record straight regarding the true Biblical teaching on Israel. The series is entitled The Israel Package.

I urge readers to order this 15-message, 8-DVD series and share it with your friends and loved ones. Learn how a preacher (me) who believed (and taught) that modern Israel was Biblical Israel for over 30 years came to see the truth that modern Israel is actually a devilish Trojan Horse designed to deceive the Church and destroy America’s Christian heritage and culture—and it has done an excellent job of doing both.

We also carry the blockbuster book that tells the true story of Israel’s attack against the USS LIBERTY, co-authored by the man quoted in this interview, Ron Kukal. The book is entitled Remember The LIBERTY!

Buy as many of these books as you can. We simply must help Ron and the LIBERTY survivors get the truth out about what happened on that fateful day on June 8, 1967.

© Chuck Baldwin


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Don't pay any attention to anything TRH posts about Israel. He's an ignorant bigot.

Facts sometimes seem bigoted.
Why not document facts that refute TRHs assertions?
The Holy Spirit leads and guides into ALL truth.
The Jews murdered our sailors, in callous ungrateful betrayal.
They will do it again and again, as when the Rosenburgs attempted to give the bomb to Stalin.

To respond to the thread title, Yes!

So authoritative. Particular on this question.

The US and Israeli governments investigated and concluded it was a mistake. That's the facts, Jack.

I hope you're not an ignorant bigot too.

So dragging out a 52 year old incident, trying to claim it was intentional and we should really hate the jews for it isn't anti semitic?


If it looks like a turd, and it smells like a turd, it's a turd.

At the National Cryptologic Museum outside NSA headquarters in Maryland is a display about the USS Liberty. There are several artifacts, the US flag, and the skipper's MoH certificate. The certificate describes the attacks and his heroic actions in saving his ship. Nowhere is the nationality of the attackers mentioned.

IIRC, his MoH ceremony was not conducted at the White House and the medal presented by the President as is customary, but at Navy Yard with presentation by an assistant Secretary of the Navy. I can't confirm any of this, just a recollection from somewhere.

Edit: Apparently correct. In a typical case, McGonagle received his Medal of Honor not from the president in a White House ceremony, as was the norm, but from the Navy secretary in a nondescript room at the Washington Navy Yard.

Whatever one may think of the Israelis, they are certainly ruthless in defending their national interests.

Paul

Right out of the Bolshevik play book, play the ignorant bigot card.

You're talking about Jews I assume.

1) Israel is prominently mentioned at the National Cryptologic Museum at NSA - https://www.nsa.gov/about/cryptologic-heritage/museum/exhibits/#uss_liberty so this "fact" is easily repudiated. The museum is an excellent one and well worth a visit to those not afraid of facts.

2) There have been lots of MoH that have not been presented by the president. The "secret" ceremony was held by the SecNav at the Navy Yard. You know, his office with many in attendance. Kind of a logical place if the President wasn't available. No different than the Sec of War presenting Staff Sergeant Maynard H. Smith.

3) Every bit of evidence, of which there is a LOT and all of which has been declassified, even from sensitive sources, has documented what this was, a tragic accident. Not the first time and not the last.

TRH takes his role as the leading provider of agenda driven fake news on the CF very seriously. Going up against him for it is going to endanger his Kook of the Year award. You've been warned. He really covets that award and he will defend it by upping the volume and kookiness of his posts of fringe "they don't want you to know" and "the man is keeping this down" and "this was just uncovered from secret archives" videos (and of course, don't bring up pitbulls, shower guns or strange pickup trucks). I assume that's the case anyway as pretty much no one is dumb enough to believe the crap he posts but then the lack of intellectual curiosity and honesty on the CF does astound me sometimes.

Thanks, Pugs.

I have visited the museum and it is, as you say, well worth a visit.

I did not recall or mean to imply that the exhibits didn't mention the Israeli involvement, but the certificate itself. I noticed that when I looked at it, but my recollection may not be correct.

Thanks also for your clarification of the protocols for awarding of the MoH.

Paul

When I was a snipe an officer gave me a direct command to keep silent and not voice the truth about an incident. I believe the 3rd class hull tech, not official published reports. Official reports get groomed with lies.

Paul apologies if I read more into your post than you meant to. If you look at other Medal of Honor Citations, at least those since Korea, rarely mention the nationality of the enemy. Usually it's "enemy", "Insurgent" or something like "attackers" - Ground citations do mention location but at sea they just mention the general area like "eastern med" so the omission seems to be historical.

In this case it's the truth. As it applies to Israel, TRH is an ignorant bigot.

John McCain's ole man must have really been busy that summer what with covering up the Liberty and Forrestal debacles.

You are spitting on the Navy vets who survived that horror.
Go back to your MENSA club meeting.

Bull. The honor of those men is tainted by people who distort their bravery as part of a giant conspiracy. Their bravery was all about saving the ship and their loyalty to each other as shipmates and Americans. To distort it beyond that is despicable.

We had three of the crew speak at NTTC Corry when I was there in 1988 for basic airborne EW school. Their character and bravery spoke of the pride they took in the ship and mission. It was a humbling inspiring experience as an Ensign with no fleet experience to hear what they went through.

I've done no such thing. I made no reference to the sailors themselves, just to TRH.
Please pay closer attention to the actual content of my posts.

Fog of war....

What’s next, you gonna accuse the 8th Air Force of deliberately targeting the 30th Infantry Div during Cobra?

i think trh would post this any way, given his antisemitic viewpoint, but i think he's butthurt over the other thread with about 8000 views now that didn't go his way. i keep wanting to ask, if he is still carrying a 1911 into the shower in a ziploc bag?

or what about right after D day, when those bombers blew the crap out of those american ground pounders?

Where the pilots Jews?

That’s what that was....friendly fire happens. It’s not all some crazy conspiracy, but then again....on the Fire it usually is

You've clearly not heard the testimony of the men who were there. Either that, or you're culpably ignorant.

Aliens....

The best sequel, by far.
Bill Paxton was great.

The facts that refute TRH have been documented on the older USS Liberty posts. Over and over. Waste of time.
Same as asking why Israel would attack us. Never get an answer.

This here is what you might call a "World Class" beatdown...

That's how it goes when you base your belief system on a single falsehood and cherrypick the rest so that it all fits together. Reminds me of the "global warming" ideology.

If you go to the link to the NSA museum that Pugs posted and look around, there is a lot of good info, much of it formerly classified. Regarding the Liberty incident, there are audios of communications with three Israeli helicopters, with English translations. It is clear that initially they believed it was an Egyptian vessel. The helos were ordered to pick up survivors, if possible, determine what language they spoke and their nationality, and report it. There was certainly confusion, as others have noted, the fog of war. How the attackers could not see the flag and markings when closing the attack is hard to fathom, though.

The US military was not completely in the dark. There was a reconnaissance aircraft in the area, with a Hebrew speaking intercept operator on board (a Marine, IIRC). That was the likely source of the intercepted communications of the helos, and probably other Israeli elements.

Paul

That's right, this indy pussy and jeffa are two turds that fell from the same ass, reminds me of another long haired 80 year mother-fu-ker from new mex that needs the chit slapped out of herself and a GD haircut, being liberal is one thing, but being an old longhaired liberal [posing as conservative] and looking like your dead mother is another.

Truly a drubbing Jorge, but TRH, RW etc will not be affected. No brains-no pains, remove their boogeymen and their belief system crumbles to dust.


mike r

Tough luck. You'll never beat out TRH for the ignorant bigot award posting stuff like that. What the heck does some old guy in New Mexico have to do with the the USS Liberty? TRH at least posts evidence from biased sources to shore up his pre-conceived opinions. If you want to be a real ignorant bigot, you'll have to do something besides cuss about people.

After all, what's a few dozen Americans dead / hundreds maimed compared to questioning israels intentions? Much better to have the pro Israel group engage in character assassination. Real display of intellect

That you retain that view after being confronted by the facts is telling. Facts confuse the unprepared, any character assassination is self inflicted.


mike r

Videos whose titles contain the word "Massacre", are often biased, I've found. Terrible accident, might be closer to the truth.

Kind of like the facts that confronted me about hillary being innocent?

Well done response...but don’t expect KOTY to change his mind. He has said many times that he knows more than those who disagree. He can’t bothered with tough questions...
If you look at the photos of the ship it becomes much clearer how fast moving jet pilots might be confused by a ship that in no way looked like an US warship. In the b&w photo the flag is hard to see.

U.S. government investigations:
• U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry of June 1967
• Joint Chief of Staff's Report of June 1967.
• CIA Intelligence Memorandums of June 1967
• Clark Clifford Report of July 1967
• Senate Foreign Relations Committee Testimony during hearings of the 1967 Foreign Aid Authorization bill, July 1967
• House Armed Services Committee Investigation of 1971
• The NSA History Report of 1981

Israeli government investigations
Fact Finding Inquiry by Colonel Ram Ron ("Ram Ron Report"—June 1967)
Historical Report "The Liberty Incident"—IDF History Department report (1982)
Preliminary Inquiry (Hearing) by Examining Judge Yeshayahu Yerushalmi ("Yerushalmi Report"—July 1967)

? I didn't know that hillery was involved in the incident being discussed. Facts apparently confuse you more than most.


mike r

Did any of the USS Liberty survivors ever say that they thought the attack was a case of mistaken identity?

I've had my ear to the ground on this for years, and I've yet to hear of a single one saying that.

I find it funny that those who constantly talk about the Deep State and not trusting the Feds embrace the government view when it comes to Israel.
I could understand a short attack, but for how long the attack went on and they could intercept the radio transmissions calling for help? At the time, I was only 8 years old and even I knew was a USN ship looked like. 99% of the time I think TRH is nuts, but maybe not so much in this case.

Not hard to understand, they been around since 1947 and still can’t stand on their own two feet without the help of US taxpayer funded aid.

The AGTR ships were converted Liberty/Victory ships - they looked like merchant ships not Naval Ships. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_research_ship Perhaps your 8 year old self should have taken a ship recce class?

Timeline? Remember that the attack by air and torpedo boat were all different units at different times. No one had a continuous experience to establish/communicate and having had many hours at low level and high speed around ships I can assure you ID isn't easy.

https://www.nsa.gov/Portals/70/docu.../chronology-events/chronology-events.pdf

And I assure you. TRH is a fraud. In this case there are many many people with a great desire to prove that Israel's did this on purpose and despite years of research and lots of artifacts there is zero evidence of a conspiracy. The three crew I heard speak in 88 all agreed a tragic case of misidentification. However, feel free to come up with that smoking gun.

Might want to start here - https://www.nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/uss-liberty/ I'm sure the CF kooks will claim it's all made up without reading yet they have a youtube video that wants to sell you a book that is "the truth"

Where were they speaking?

Do you recall their names?

I'd like to read what they had to say about it.

These survivors don't think it was a case of mistaken identity.

I wish I recalled their names. They were all enlisted guys as I posted earlier it was at NTTC Corry Station at the base theatre. I was there for basic airborne EW school but Corry is where all the Cryptologic Techs are trained so they were there mostly to talk to those sailors since that was what they were too. About an hour presentation. A slide show and each one spoke for maybe 10 minutes each and then there was a Q&A. Lasted an hour IIRC. They all said that a massive mistake that would not have happened with the comms and sensors we had in 1988 vice 20 years prior.

Keep in mind, Bristoe, that at least half the ship's personnel were connected to the NSA, some high ranking.

I found this concerning Corry Station and the USS Liberty incident. But it says nothing about whether or not it was intentional.

https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=100995

1. Maybe those big white with black shadowing numbers on the bow may have been a giveaway?
2. Who built the Liberty/Victory ships?
3. Merchant ships weren't painted gray.
4. Why would Israel attack a merchant ship in international waters?
5. If Egypt had attacked it and then said "oops, it was a big mistake", would you give them the same slack?
6. It's amazing that Israel could win the war if they had such lousy communications and identification procedures. Yet, all we hear is how badazz they are.
7. Check back in history. In 1967, we weren't the 100% "friend" that we are now.

Pugs, despite your personal experience, facts don't persuade those that have their own agenda. If you don't shout in their echo chamber you can't be correct. Deep seated prejudices, no matter how ill founded, are a personality flaw that seeks validation from the like minded.


mike r

The Hasbara is strong wherever the USS Liberty gets mentioned.

The dumbass gets pretty strong when historical facts get mentioned that don't align w/ prejudices.


mike r

Aliyah.

Delta is ready when you are.

You need some new material, jump back on ramzpaul or voxp so you can further your education. It has served you well so far.



mike r

I don’t have an opinion on this but I thought it was interesting that in the transcript posted earlier in this thread the Petty Officer that was below deck said that the USS Liberty didn’t even fire a shot but then in one of the other first hand interviews with a different guy he said they fired their machine gun despite the captains order to not fire. It’s tough to ascertain the truth when even those that were aboard the Liberty that fateful day contradict one another.

I am not a fan of nor do I trust the Israelis but I also don’t think that everything that happens worldwide is some type of conspiracy with Israel at the heart of it. It’s very similar to the “Boy who cried wolf”.imo

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html

A former Navy attorney who helped lead the military investigation of the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty that killed 34 American servicemen says former President Lyndon Johnson and his defense secretary, Robert McNamara, ordered that the inquiry conclude the incident was an accident.

In a signed affidavit released at a Capitol Hill news conference, retired Capt. Ward Boston said Johnson and McNamara told those heading the Navy's inquiry to "conclude that the attack was a case of 'mistaken identity' despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary."

It was “one of the classic all-American cover-ups,” said retired Admiral Thomas Moorer, a former Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman who spent a year investigating the attack as part of an independent panel he formed with other former military officials.

Admiral Thomas Moorer:

https://www.usni.org/press/oral-histories/moorer-thomas

Ain't that the truth.

Bwahahahahaha!

Bam!

We're good friends with Germany, with whom we fought bitterly.

We're good friends with Japan with whom we fought bitterly.

We have apparently even become friends with Vietnam...

Surely we can be friends with Israel - who absolutely did shoot up one of our ships...

Guy

Whoever sent the USS Liberty on that mission was naive. Those Jews over there had already demonstrated that they wouldn't allow any interference from the west when they blew up the King David hotel and killed all of those British in 1946.

If you listen to the last five minutes of the tape you will get the answer.

This goes right along with the video.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/uk-maritime-groups-warns-of-incident-in-gulf-of-oman

In addition, the frank, open honest enlisted men, including that hull tech are a thousand times more credible in their eye witness accounts than a million polished reports compiled by lifer dog officers trying to brown nose their way to promotion.

A semite is a semite, be it a jew or muslim, Arab or Ethiopian.

They turned on Jesus and will turn on anyone and ruthlessly exploit for their own agenda, its in their tribal blood nature.



Those who led the Hebrew gangs classified as murderous terrorists by the British , went on to become 'elected and respected'
leaders of Israel.

The Rosenburgs tried to give the bomb to Joe Stalin.
The New York Marxist Jewish community exclaimed their innocence even after Ronald Radosh proved their guilt.
What kind of a people do such things?
It boggles my mind!
Honestly.

Menachem Begin.

Why then didn't the US become friends with Osama Bin Laden post 911?

he was a friend /freedom fighter of the US during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan,
so why not give him a reconciliatory second chance? ..

IRA terrorist leaders and recognized ANC terrorist Nelson Mandela became legistimized 'good people'

and currently, negotiations are in progress with USA to make the TALIBAN a recognized non-terrorist political entity,
...and all while they keep doing their usual brutal attacking of security forces and blowing up/ murdering people in Afghan cities.

Still no answer.

You're swirling around again, reach up and pull the handle.

Is that a serious question or are you trying to use shock value to make some absurd correlation? If it’s really a serious question then I’d have to say with certainty that that’s gotta be the dumbest question that’s been posed here in years if not the history of the Campfire. I’m sure that if your wife or children were murdered you’d be the first to forgive the murderer and seek reconciliation since other reconciliations have happened from time to time throughout history. You’re likely the poster boy for forgiveness and letting murderous bygones be murderous bygones. For being such a champion of kumbaya like forgiveness you seem to carry a lot of anger and hatred.

some people can forgive and reconcile with Germans, Japs, Soviets,etc for the millions of civilians they systematically killed.

while some will forever hold a grudge against Alqaeda over 3000 thousand.

gUess depends what kind of christian you are and who's lives you hold in higher esteem.

does GoD share your opinions and perspective?



how far back do you want to go concerning holding grudges and unjustified killing?

The Indian wars?...Civil war?.....how about we all hold a grudge against the invading Romans who targeted zealot trouble making jews?

and a grudge against the Jews who shouted and demanded the death of Jesus the son of God?

What about that ruthless bloodthirsty 'genocidal' King David in Bible ..?




Is it fair that Americans hold a grudge against Israel for the deliberate sustained strike on the USS Liberty,
the same way Americans hold a grudge against Saudi Arabia for 911..?

Are some peoples feelings and losses worth less than others?

since Trump visited and praised the [terrorist sponsoring] Saudis and told everybody the saudis are great people,
has he forgiven them and moved on?

Would Americans feel better if Trump brought the Saudis to their knees for 911 instead of grovelling to them?

I gather the question to ask is; .Whats the christian thing to do?...the answer will vary from christian to christian, ..yes?

Who do I have 'anger and hatred' against..? .. is it anything like the venom you have spat at Ivmiker?

btw; I have to say you revealed your level of blatant ignorance when you said the nazis 'targeted only innocent civilians'.

I don't know of any war historian living or dead that buys your utterly absurd version of WW2 history.
yet you have the temerity to condemn and ridicule those who produce their own revisionist history......TFF.

In a way, you can blame Russia, it was them that had betrayed Israel's secret plans at expansionism, warning Jordan of their build-up along their border. Israel new exactly what the Liberty was when it arrived on station, had over flown the ship nearly hourly. But figured though the U.S. had promised that it would stay neutral, was in fact playing both sides. McNamara as Nixon had with Eisenhower was playing to his own fiddle. and Syria's previous criticizing of Egypt's failure to honor their mutual defense agreement was another tipping point this time around. When Nassar closed the strait of Tiran, Johnson warned Israel not to take a first move.(thank Bolton, Pompeo as being McNamara back then).and the Russians warning being portrayed as fake news, when in fact it was legit. Israel had been planning this for a long time, and this time around wasn't going to let the U.S get in the way of taking the disputed territories and they didn't.

Phil