Pretty impressive design. Interesting to see what the after market does, particularly if sold crated.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/fords-7-3-liter-godzilla-gas-engine-delivers-430-horsepower-packs-monster-potential/?wc_mid=4035:17327&wc_rid=4035:690827&_wcsid=642FFC672FBD0B27747D0828DA5F7866F54D647E87D64803

Link did not work....but a big gas engine is what the pickup world needs again.


Still bloody cheaper than a diesel!

Try this link.

7.3 Good
Diesel Good

7.3 Diesel......way good

My traveling pickup is a 2002 GMC with the 8.1 liter Vortec.


It has the Allison.


Even after I ruined it with too big of a camshaft.......its still a pleasure to drive.

That was a good engine. I have an IDI Turbo 7.3

My buddy has a Powerstroke. It works real well for him. When all the oil leaks out...it quits.

He has never been able to run it out of oil!

What are the mileage estimates? I wonder how it compares to the old 460.

One of GM’s best engines

I'm running a 6.7L powersroke in a new 2019 Super Duty. On a road trip last month I got 20 ½ mpg. I was pleased. I was running empty, not pulling anything.

Our 2011 6.7 Powerstroke gets 10-11 mpg, pulling, empty, loaded, whatever.

I didn't trust the computer but it's right.


And it will run hot when the turbo gets to rolling.


A dude is gonna get rid of all the emissions chit and run a straight pipe on. Parts were ordered a couple weeks ago and I need to call him.

I was a ford man all my life and became very disappointed in fords drive trains got real sick of replacing transmissions. I switched to GMC and I don't think I'll be switching back anytime soon.

Hopefully Ford can build a reliable drive train again.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/for...s-430-horsepower-packs-monster-potential

Have you cleaned all the weed seed out between your coolers Sam? Them big ass coolers need blown out couple times a year

Looks like a great truck engine. Mass torque way down low and keeps pulling.

My v10 has 180k on it. Love the truck but it’s a rattle box and a single cab. A Crew xlt short box 4x4 with that 7.3 would suit me just fine!

Bit of a shame they couldn’t hit that 500 ftlb mark. Not that it matters in reality, but folks love numbers and it sells trucks.

Which year? The old 460's were no joke, but the later ones, in the 80's and 90's, got choked pretty hard. Still good torque numbers but hp dropped to under 250. I'd be willing to bet this engine would thoroughly trounce the old 460 in all categories, except probably ease of wrenching/mods.

I wish I could get my 93 to run better.


I blame a lot of its doggieness on the trans controller though...

My '95 460 flatbed dually is an absolute DAWG. Hate that truck.

Auto or manual?

Another article mentioned the primary purpose of the engine was medium duty trucks (450's-650's) and other commercial vehicles where durability and space are critical.

The the little 4 banger Cat engine in my 2-ton came out of the factory with a whopping 152 hp.....

Jim it's a 4x4 and an auto.

Every time.


The auto versions of those pickups were terrible. The manual pickups ran better.


Not great...especially for the fuel burnt...but better than the autos.


Flat beds were worse yet.


You dont have LED's in the bed do you? If so you need some resistors.

No LED's. It's got about 75K miles on it now.

I thought about a Cummins swap on that pig but I have a $2100 pto on the Ford auto tranny and I didn't want to lose that investment, as well as all the $ it takes to convert one to Dodge and stick. Just not practical. It's a pig of the worst order. Did I mention I hate it?

Sometimes, with a flat bed and of course rear lights that are not stock, the trans controller starts acting weird.


Like it will lock the converter when it should be unlocked and vice versa.


The fix...or at least a partial fix....was to install a resistor in the line to the tail lights.


Usually with LED's, but would also act up with regular incandescent bulbs.

Something to check I guess.

From what I’ve heard, the new super duty trucks with the 7.3 will be available with 4.30 gears.

All low speed, low gear grunting, work, I presume?

I have an '11 w 3.73 rear. Pull g a trailer and GVW of 22K, I get at least 13 on a round trip.

Please update when you get the work done.

Trans controller is that big ugly thing wiggling the shiffer lever!

Hemi.. gear rear end correct for projected weight .. roll on

You might not need the 4:30s with the 10 speed auto it will come with. At least not for daily driving.

Very interesting, Jim.
I've got a '91 motorhome with a 460 and the cruise control gets wonky when the lights are on.
Also seems to run a little funny with lights on.
What resistor works for you?

Regards,
Bob.

Joe said he could not resistor any longer.

I'd give them about 4 years to work out the kinks

like spitting spark plugs and oil sludge

If yer not towing, yes... But hook up a camper the size of mine and that gas engine truck will need another gas tank in the bed so ya won't have to stop every 50 miles and fill up.. BTDT... IF (or when) I stop towing anything with weight, then I'd get a gas truck..

And if a gas engine is so great (and cheap) compared to diesel - why does every semi on the road have diesel engines?? And I think every tractor of any size today is run by a diesel. IIRC, IH stopped offering a gas engine after '68 or so..

I really wanted one, tried to order one. But no delivery until January at the earliest wouldn’t work for me so I went 6.2. Maybe here in a few years I’ll be ready to trade and I’ll get one then.

Quick math here - gas is $2.60/gallon here.. Diesel is $2.89. I.e., gas is 90% the cost of diesel.. Last time I towed the camper I got 7.9 mpg with my 6.7 PSD.. IF I had that gas engine, I'd be very, very lucky to get 5 mpg.. Go 1200 miles and the cost would be 240 gallons @ 2.60 = $624.00 . That same 1200 miles in diesel would be 152 gallons @ 439.00.. That's not far off $200..

5 mpg with a 46 gallon tank (the size of my truck's) would get me 200 miles before I'd be desperate to be at a gas pump.. Even daily driving short distances, I average about 14 mpg.. No way would I get that with a big-engine gas truck - best estimate is 12 mpg, but I could certainly be wrong. And is a gas engine really going to last as long as a diesel when it's worked hard? Local cattle-hauler friend of mine is going to order a new F-350 SRW.. His current F-350 SRW diesel has a bit over 300K on the odometer.. He's had to spend a bunch on truck maintenance, but nearly ZERO on the engine itself other than oil/filter changes..

Maybe I'm all wet - as others will surely tell me..


And re: that 10-sp..... is that thing gonna be hunting for gears every 50 feet - especially if towing something heavy? I'd be leery of that - at least until it's got 3-4 years of use and see how it holds up.. But that's just me..

I have a couple Dodges, a 2004 with 190,000 and a 2018. I like them.

Google up Flatbed Ed on the Ford forum for gas longevity info. He had like 430k on his when he lost a cam and he’s got about 700k on the truck now with the new engine. We run 6.2s at work to 150k before we sell them and have almost zero engine or transmission issues in a decent size fleet. We unload the diesel trucks at the same mileage BTW. Better tolerance and engineering has made gasoline engines last a long time these days. Lots and lots of 250k Chevy LS motors out there running around too.

I would think....with it properly set up...the 10 speed would feel a lot like a really well modulated powershift.

Doubt you would feel it hunting much.

I have the F350 6.7 Powerstroke.

It gets somewhere just under 15mpg. (4x4 dually)

If that new 7.3 gas motor has the power and reasonably close in gas mileage, I'd have one.

Driving a "diesel" per se has no hidden charm to me...

Spitting spark plugs is from 20 years ago. I have 194k on my 2000. Pulled my trailer from SoCal to Denver area and my plugs are all where they are supposed to be. Changed them out just because before we left too. Oil sludge is poor maintenance not an inherent design flaw.

Only way a diesel will pay for itself is if you work it hard and a lot (all the time). Then you'd better hope the rest of the truck can keep pace with the motor, and that the motor is a good one. Regular maintenance costs are much higher so it is not just the original diesel motor upcharge that you pay for.
Had a decent late 90s 7.3 powerstroke that I ran to about 225K (miles). Probably only towed/packed weight 10-15% of the time, and only about 5500 lbs. Diesel was cheaper then, no DEF, etc. but in the end the trans was going so it got sold off before I dug a bigger hole with repairs. New gas half ton fills the role nicely and is much nicer/easier to drive, though it doesn't carry the same load (neither do I any more!).

Redneck posts up some good numbers.


For the long distance leisure crowd, hotshot drivers, and maybe local guys who do some heavier hauling over longer distances, a diesel makes more sense.


If you go by fuel costs alone, it takes a really long time to pay off a diesel engine. Longer than you might think.

I see these never diesles as sort of a "luxury tax". The option is expensive, the maintenence is higher, DEF is lame,....but when you want the power you have it.


With a big gas engine option, you dont have to pay the high upfront Luxury tax, but still have a powerful engine.



We have three diesel pickups on the farm. I like them too, but for daily "in the trenches" work.....I dont care for them like I did.

What did you stick in there?

The stock cam wiped a lobe off so I installed a Raylar 203 cam. Did the Raylar roller rockers too.


Should have went with the 202..........but never would have anyway.

IF... in 2003 when The EPA dropped the hammer on all diesels and ended the 7.3l Ford... Ford management had done the right thing and said "Sorry fellas, we got caught cold and have not yet finished debugging our 6.0l, PLEASE BEAR WITH US, we are working 24/7/365 to get it right." I would still drive Fords.

I would post up the cam card....but it was so faded it was almost useless.


Also, I swore, legally swore never to post it anywhere.......

I think you're right Jim.

I can't find where they spec their cams other than the brief verbal descriptions.

They made you sign a non-disclosure agreement?

Yeah, they are a bit cagey.

I called and talked to the owner a couple times. Kinda told him about the Comp Cams specs....and we decided on a Raylar.


Honestly, I cant remember if I did the 202 or the 203.

The idle sucks......potato potato potato.......

Vaccuum is shot to hell, MAP thinks we are WOT all the time I am sure. The fuel system is OPEN at all times.

I have really confused the hell out of the old computer.....





She goes like hell above 2000!

No.....scouts honor type of thing.



I am confused now. I have to find the box.....and the card to remember what I bought.



Will see if I can get you some numbers later.

I had a F-250 with the 7.3 powerstroke, don't recall he year? 2000 or 2001? I have owned three since, all GM trucks. I get the family discount so this was why I bought the GM's. My Ford was my hunting and fishing vehicle. I sold it after 6 years with only 80,000 miles on it. I wish I would of kept it, best truck I have ever had. Pulled a 29 ft fifth wheeler and a 19 ft boat down the road like I was not even there.

I had a 97 F250 with the 460 in it, it was a great tow rig if you didn't mind the crappy gas mileage but honestly, it never got much above 12 mpg even unloaded. I miss that truck and would have kept it if it would have had the crew cab.

LOL...

Remeber that Chevy converted 350 to diesel engine... The LF9...?

my point was more along the lines of it should have never happened to begin with

Some folks bate the triton motors. Ive had great luck with them (knocks wood).

I'm into basics. 2005 long bed F-150, Essex 4.2 liter V6, 5 speed stick. They run a lot better than you would expect and are widely considered to be the best F-150 motor Ford ever built. I've had two of them.

I have 97 f350 7.3 pulls 32 ft camper like it wasn't anything get over 15 mpg ,has 172,000 miles on it 2 wheel drive 5 speed

The 7.3s were pretty dang good diesels.(and still are) Ive been online truck shopping and a dealer has a 2000 7.3 with 550k miles advertised.

Other than towing heavy I'd take a gas over a diesel any day. But for towing a diesel just rocks. Maybe with low gears and a 8sp or 10sp a gas will be a better towing option. Also a turbo engine is really nice at higher altitudes. I opted for a diesel but it won't ever pay off in MPG over a gas, but it's way nicer to tow with, just more expensive. If I lived in the flat lands I could probably live with a gas engine, but towing in the Rockies the gas engines really work. My last gas truck got 6 mpg towing my toy hauler and the diesel gets 9 mpg. Plus the diesel has power to spare pulling hills, while the gas would be running 5k rpm just to hold speed up the same hill. Just towing around town the gas was good enough, but it struggled with heavier loads like a 13k excavator up a steep grade.

I love diesel engines, but could not justify buying one. Too expensive nowadays and the EPA has strangled them. If I was buying one for commercial use and had to tow a lot, sure, then.

The gas truck motors have gotten a lot of development the last 15 years, eroding unloaded fuel economy advantage of diesels..

One thing you'll never see me buy is a turbo gas engine in a truck.

No, 10-11mpg is tops, down a nice flat highway at 70mph empty....

It gets around 5-6mpg chugging around mixed road/off road.




My 6.0 is running like a fuuckin' top. 156k miles and takes off and goes like new.


Run the lightweight oil in the diesel pickups said the Ford mechanic.

5w-40 or 10w-30.


If going new I'd go with the new big gas engine. Or if someone else is buying spend the extra $9k for the 6.7, say screw the warranty and modify it right off the bat.

Little small town Ford dealer I’ve been dealing with the last couple weeks buying a truck told me that in his opinion, the 7.3 is probably going to be a bull strong and long lasting working type motor but he’s guessing it’ll see 8mpg or thereabouts. I quizzed him about the MPG estimate and he explained that his family has owned this dealership for 70 years and nothing they’ve ever sold has routinely gotten the average MPG that Ford claims, 4 cylinders, Ecoboosts, diesels, V6s, V8s, none of them. I’m thinking he’s probably just being honest and rational about the whole thing, and he has a much wider experience than I do.

He did say he was excited for them to debut because he was going to sell a pile of them to farmers and oilfield companies. He said that in the last 5 years he’s seen a big shift by his longtime customers who buy 1 ton work and feed trucks back to gas. And he absolutely loves the 6.2, says it’s about the least troublesome current production engine in Ford’s lineup. Says the farmers buy the heck out of them because they are $10k less than the diesel, less maintenance, more reliable, and they beat the pickup to death before the motor has a chance to be worn out. Makes sense to me when you look at it that way.

I'll never buy another truck that isn't turbocharged. Whats not to like about 20-24 mph highway, ability to tow 10K and quiet and very peppy... I love my Ecoboost

The cool thing about this new engine is that it is putting out over 400 lb ft of torque starting at 1500 rpm. The peak torque (475) comes around 4000 rpm, and I was a little concerned when I saw that. The old IH gassers had peak torque around 2800 rpm. I figured you’d have to rev the heck out of the new 7.3 to get things done, but a look at the torque curve shows it to be pretty flat from 1500 rpm all the way past 4000rpm.

No, this won’t compare to a newer diesel, but it ought to pull like an old 5.9 or 7.3 diesel would...

Yep. 400+ from 1500 on is pretty damn impressive. 475 ftlb’s is more than a lot of diesels from not too long ago.

http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/Facts/96specs.html

https://jalopnik.com/why-the-ford-super-duty-s-7-3-liter-v8-makes-only-430-h-1836880836

Compare the torque curves in these two stories. Note that the Dodge curve has lb ft on the RIGHT.

I suspect your dealer is wrong about the MPG of the 7.3. I own a 6.2 with 4:30 gears and average 13 in town and 15 on a trip. The new 7.3 offers a slight increase in power but also comes with 4 more gears in the transmission. My gut tell me it will be at least as good as the 6.2 and most likely better by 1 or 2 mpg.

Those vehicles with a mileage rating on the sticker will absolutely get that mileage on avg.

Trucks over 8500 GVW are not required to have the mileage ratings on the sticker. Nor does the auto maker advertise any type of mileage estimates on them

Mileage estimates don't come from the manufacturer. They come from the beloved EPA...

EPA mileage ratings are a very broad comparison.

You get into pickups, it ALL depends on weight, rear end gearing, and fuel used, as well as altitude, terrain and many other factors.

Had a 3/4 ton 4x4 Dodge V10 geared 4:11 that would get close to 15 on the highway. I doubt the new 7.3 gasser will get 8mpg. It should do better.

I dont see the torque curve.

Scroll down to almost the end of that Jalopnik story. You should find it there.

Longevity. See below



I like to keep my autos a long while. Turbo+Diesel has a long track record of longevity. Turbo+Gasoline, not so much.

If Turbo+Deisel is not on the menu because I can't afford it, I'll go for increased displacement before hooking up a turbo to a gasser.

I think one of the biggest problems turbo + gasoline has is people who don't let them warm up or cool down. A goodly share of the folks who buy a diesel understand the warm-up/cool-down. People who've driven gassers forever just jump in, mash the gas and shut down when the shifter hits "P". Turbos should have the engine @ full operating temp before running peak boost. Turbos no matter what the fuel need some idle time to cool down as well. Current and previous diesel pickups, on road-trips I don't shut down to fill fuel, especially if I've been towing anything. I don't have Pyro/EGT gauges so I just let it idle a bit when I get where I'm going.

The auto-stop/shut down when the pickup is at a stop feature can't be good for turbos. I have no problem with one or the other features on their own. I'd never own them together.

My little 7 liter Windsor did pretty well.

My buddy buys 2 or 3 new Ecoboosts every year. He has been buying F550s with 6.7s up until this year too. He trades his 3.5s off at 200K. Never had a single problem. The F550s go through at least one turbo a year though. They just aren't getting enough oil or something. He is going to all gas engines in his fleet. I don't blame him.

12344mmag Glad You are happy with your GM product. I bought one of their early attempts at Diesel ( gas to diesel) and 4 engines and 60K later I switched to a gas engine to get some miles
on the frame. GM give me $1800 and wished me luck. I have never bought or rented a GM product since and will not in the future. I wish you luck. Cheers NC

GMC Typhoon


Who gives a schit about longevity?

That’s what I have in my truck. An ‘07 longbed single cab stick. 175,000 miles and never been to a mechanic. Doesn’t pull much though. I pull my aluminum bay boat to the lake 10 minutes away, but that’s about all she’s good for as far as pulling. She’s a pig in the mud too but she’s lasted this long and has gotten the job done. Some day I hope to have a good enough excuse to buy a super duty.

Ya but will it last 300,000 miles pulling 10,000 lbs?

The new 7.3 has a steel crank, oil cooled pistons and 4 bolt mains with extra crossbolts........

Too funny. I have an international 4700 with a navstar 7.3.
I keep two gallon jugs of rotella behind the seat. If it starts starting hard, it's time to add oil. Has 490,000 on it now. I've had 4 injectors replaced, other than that it runs like a scalded dog. Looks like [bleep] though!

Probably. Splayed four bolt mains, forged steel crank, H beam rods, ARP nuts and bolts, hydraulic roller cam, etc. And it never spins above 5500 rpm. That said, I won't pulling a trailer in my Mach 1. Who knows if the new Ford will go 300K until it does I suppose. I do like their steer back towards a strong gas engine.

Yep.

300 straight six is the best gas truck engine Ford's ever made.

Ed- that stroked Windsor is nice.

Good luck getting it 50 state approved.


Hoping Ford hits a home run with it. They need some help catching up with the LS motors.

I have 6- 6.0 GM's in pickups and vans. The youngest has 100,000. The oldest has 354,000 miles right now. Uses no oil between changes. Buddy has a 3500 express van with 500,000+ with no work.

Have an 8.1l in a GMC. Talk about a badass gasser, sumbitch pulls like a freight train. I have 2 duramax's and the 8.1l puts them to shame.

Having put a bunch of miles on one......I won’t/can’t disagree.

My v10 is making a run though!

Bold talk!

I agree. Vast majority of drivers, even drivers of pickups, don't know to allow for warm up / cool down. I do such even with my NA gas engines. Get in, start it up, then attend to a few items for 30-60 sec at least. Then take off nice & easy until everything at operating temp. When I arrive, I take a minute or two to arrange things (and hopefully took it easy the last few miles), then shut it off. Thus far, in my metro area, no one has allowed me to wear out an engine before some knucklehead decides I need to buy a new auto and totals my current 10-14 year old daily driver. Not hard to do when it is 10+ YO and ~200k mi on the odo.

And even if the driver does take pains, the increased complexity is a source of failure. The intercooled turbo bits are not free and they all can break.



Do the turbos keep spinning or come to an abrupt halt with some sort of braking mechanism? If they keep spinning, depleting their angular momentum, the oil that used to circulate is now stuck and sucking in turbo-generated heat while at stop. This can't be good for that volume of oil or the parts it is supposed to be lubricating.

Don't get me started (yuk-yuk). It is not good for ANY part of the engine. Oh, but they get a heavy-duty starter. Really? One with, say, a 100x better MTBF to counter the increased number of starts? How much more does that weigh & cost? And how about the battery, AC compressor, and other bits that need beefing up to keep up with the increased number of starts _and_ the cessation of compressor/alternator operation at stop? If they aren't 100x more reliable, how much to replace those items? What if hte whole start-stop system goes apey 200 miles form home and maybe decides it won;t start up again?

And then there is the big honking deal static friction. The Ford eco-boost booster claim the oil pressure is maintained during the stop-start sequence. Assume that is true and no loss of pressure occurs. Well, starting a system from stop results in the system fighting static friction, which is greater than the kinetic friction one sees in a system at motion.

One thing we have to keep in mind with the stop-start and turbo gasser deals is that these were not foisted on us because the public demanded them. They have been foisted on us so the trucks do better in teh EPA fuel efficiency tests.

"What we need is a turbo V-6 gasser in our half ton full sized pickup trucks," said no one anywhere. Turbo V-6 diesel, sure.

Or you could just push the button on the dash that kills the Auto-Off feature...if you don't like it.

It ain't rocket science.

But I assume you'd have to have at a bare minimum... Driven One.... to make a knowledgeable assessment.

Nothing new at the Fire... (Hell there's more than a few in this very thread that are posting, thinking this thread is about the old 7.3 Powerstroke diesel engine... LOL.)

GMC Cyclone.


Next question please.

Does B&W make a turnover ball for those? Schweeeet

Probably. I am on my second one of those too.

I’d probably rephrase that to “longest lasting truck engine Ford ever built”. They’re good no doubt but most guys these days wouldn’t be satisfied with a whole 220ft lb of torque.

Did have a buddy who ran one to almost 600k with absolutely no engine work. In fact the only semi major work ever done to the whole truck was a clutch at around 500k. Couldn’t be in a hurry but it would deliver you to where you wanted to go eventually.

I am seriously looking at a Class C RV. I think the new Ford 7.3 would be a good fit, depending on the tranny. The V10 is a good one as well. Currently have a 35' 5th wheel max at 14K#'s. 2014 Silverado HD SRW Duramax 4X4. For this trailer I would never consider a gas truck. Yes I paid $8K to get the diesel and the Allison tranny. One thing I have not seen folks talk about is the exhaust brake and the trannys ability to slow the rig down with out using the brakes. On the long hills out West that can be a god send. Mileage is not bad, 7 to best of 12 with the 5th wheel. Empty 13 to a high of 17. Diesels also hold their value better as well. Dealer wants my truck on a trade, offered $40K towards a 2019. I only paid $48K when I bought it. You won't get that on a gas truck. If not towing a big load then the diesels don't make that much sense.

My 8.1l is in a 6500 series GMC with a Zf 6-speed manual and the duramax's are in 4500 series Chevy's with automatics so obviously gearing is a huge part of it. Like to run an 8.1l with an Allison sometime.

Saw one posted locally here, 170,000+ miles and they want $8,000. Would be neat, but not at that price.

8.1 L has enough power to drift a 28' U-Haul truck. Effortlessly.

Thankfully Johnnie Law wasn't around, but I had to make three lane changes in about 250 ft. ahead of rush hour traffic after making a left turn on yellow.