Still speculating, gotta buy something next year. Prob'ly my last vehicle.
Needs; some moderate off road and towing capability
The $25,000-$30,000 bracket gets me a new lower-end 4WD Tacoma (9" ground clearance/3,000lb towing capacity).
or....
a new lower-end AWD Outback (8" ground clearance/2,700lb towing capacity)....
Can't get around it, gotta have four doors and a back seat. Don't anticipate towing more'n 2,000 lbs (small boat or cargo trailer).
The Tacoma has a 5ft bed, OTOH the Outback also has a pretty generous luggage capacity, especially with the back seats folded. I'd rather leave my stuff locked in back of an Outback than under a cover in the bed of a pickup.
I expect anything badged Toyota to run forever, how do Subarus hold up?
All thoughts appreciated. Given the price of a 4Runner, I was surprised at how inexpensive Outbacks are.
Subarus have a solid reputation for reliability. Not on par with Toyota's reputation, but good nonetheless. The ride of the two vehicles will be worlds apart. The Tacoma rides like schidt. It is also noisy as hell. The Outback will get appreciably better economy. I use a truck bed often though, so I'd take the Tacoma.
If it's just your stuff and maybe one other, why can't you put it in the back seat/floor of the Tacoma?
If I took the stuff out of the trunk of my present Corolla and put it in the back seat, my granddaughter's car seat wouldn't fit.
But then among other stuff I roll around with a complete 1835 camp setup in my trunk. If I leave all that stuff in, then none of it is forgotten the next time, and getting ready for reenacting is worse'n a girl getting ready for prom.
I'm on my 6th Tacoma so I may be a little bit biased. The Tacoma back seats fold down to give you a large flat area for "stuff". They now have a locking tailgate also. A hard cover on the bed and you're good to go. I also like being higher up in a truck. I have no experience with the Outback.
Get the outback. It fits your liberal innerself that wants ta come outta the closet anyways.
You can catch humminbirds put em it when you drive . And when you get out amognst your birdwatching friends They all can come flying out like some awesome display of flying feathered friends for all. You will be legendary.
i have been eyeballing a forerunner for a long time now. they have all kinds of stuff on them, i think it's the trd pro that gets to me. but, the ones i am looking at are more like 40k and up. i have a 02 exterra nissan with somewhat offroad tires on it. I am embarrassed where i have taken it. we call it the dog car, back seats are always down, four dogs like it.
Mine as well. I have the extended cab, not the crew cab. Cab size is perfect for errands and the dogs. Not so much if you carry more than one other person.
Have an Outback (wife's car) and I would see the CVT as the weak point. Subaru does back it though. A few years ago, they upped the warranty to 100,000 miles. As far as the Taco, get a Decked system for the box. Lockable weather proof slide out drawers made to custom fit each model. Me personally, the Tacoma.
i have been eyeballing a forerunner for a long time now. they have all kinds of stuff on them, i think it's the trd pro that gets to me. but, the ones i am looking at are more like 40k and up. i have a 02 exterra nissan with somewhat offroad tires on it. I am embarrassed where i have taken it. we call it the dog car, back seats are always down, four dogs like it.
I have a 2018 SR5 premium or some extra package upgrade. I use mine as a hunting rig, and lab transport. I love mine. Almost 21mpg over 33,000 miles. I think mine was 40K withe the deluxe/premium package that gives heated seats, fake leather, moon roof, other stuff. vinyl l seats are cool for the dog fur and mud.
I'd do a Tacoma 4-door and put a canopy on the back. Stay away from any tire stiffer than a "C" rating and the ride should still be okay. The newer models have pretty nice interiors. I expect to keep my 2011 model for a long time.
With my family and friends It seems to split about 30% Subaru and 70% Toyota. We have had no reliability issues with either brand.
I have a Tundra and a Tacoma. For my part, I would (and will in a few years) go with a new Tacoma Double Cab. It will have an easy to remove LW canopy with rails and a basket. I often use a smaller utility trailer with the one I own now.
For her most recent purchase, my wife chose a new (2017) Outback. Her earlier car was a Camry. She doesn't see much difference (she wanted a back up camera. It gets very little off road use and predictably handles well in snow and ice. It works OK with the familyLab but not as well as the pickups.
One son's Subaru got lots of off road use and except for ground clearance it worked well. My country sister loves hers for mimicing Crocodile Dundee.
Our youngest at 35 is on his fourth Toyota Tacoma (a 2018). He tends to run them into things well before they wear out.
Ok, I am going to out myself as a lesbian here....I have an Outback at my place in Montana. For the most part it's for getting around town, but I also use it to get to my hunting cabin. I have an F150 as well, but the Subrau has won me over for most needs. The Outback we have is the 6 cylinder and it actually has pretty good power and MPG. My sister has the 4 cylinder Outback and it actually is not bad on power and gets better MPG. I have something of a leadfoot, though, and for the long stretches of road in the state where I can get by with triple digit speeds, I like the extra power of the 6.
Here's the thing I didn't expect with the Subaru...it's a really good vehicle for many off road conditions. It won't crawl through water obstacles or climb rocks, but for ranch roads and trails, it's amazing. It has something called X Mode that is a lot like how a Jeep will basically walk itself over obstacles at low speeds, without having to ride brakes, and that has been very useful. The stock tires on the Subaru were awful for off road use, though, and I swapped them out for Geolanders after the second tires puncture in the first 800 miles of driving the car. With the better tires, the Subaru is hard to stop.
I've use the Subaru to haul all of my hunting gear, plus my brother's, plus a field dressed mule deer, and it was very comfortable.
It's too early to talk reliability, as we just got the Subaru a year ago and have only put about 10,000 miles on it. I've heard people complaining about the head unit for the nav/radio/etc, but we've not had that problem. The OEM battery also sucks, but that was an easy fix. Otherwise, it's an efficient, comfortable and pretty tough vehicle, especially in the snow.
My recommendation would be go with an AWD SUV type vehicle of your choice, either already equipped with trailer hitch or have one installed, then pick up a small, light, utility trailer for whenever you might need to haul something that you can't or don't want to inside your SUV.
(You also could buy a bicycle carrier and/or extra carry capacity rack that mounts directly into trailer hitch.)
Short answer: Toyota Tacoma with a camper shell/truck cap, preferably a commercial one with side access.
Long Answer: I own a 4-door Nissan Frontier with a commercial truck cap. It is about the handiest vehicle on planet Earth. Only way it could be handier is if it was bigger and/or had 4WD. Seats 5 in a pinch, but still can haul a bunch of stuff without it getting wet. Can sleep in the back. Cap locks up and has handy side access (commercial for the win).
I went with D load rated AT tires and would go E-rated AT next time. They ride as good as the OEM passenger highway tires, handle better, and are much tougher when rocks are an issue.
Only downside is fuel economy, but Subarus are gas hogs for their size, so you're not losing much.
Once you mentioned 2000lbs of towing, I was leaning against a unibody auto and the CVT tranny is a non-starter for towing. Capacity may be 2700lbs, but anything over half of capacity can be hard on the tow vehicle, nerve-wracking while driving, and increase wear & tear.
If you voted for Hillary in 2016, then buy whatever you want.
But if you voted for President Trump, at what point in time do you start taking his message to heart?
When seated in a Tacoma, your legs are splayed out in front of you like a $2 whore. Not comfortable, unless perhaps you're a $2 whore.
Do a search for Subaru's needing the engine removed to reseal the jugs as the vehicle gets up in miles. And extending the warranty on the CVT transmission is just a cheap alternative to actually fixing a weak transmission.
Ford has what you need. And don't even bother with the but but but they're made here. Unless the company has its headquarters here with profits flowing INTO the U.S. it's not American.
If you are putting dead stuff in it, or hauling things - it would NOT be with an outback...
Dang thing uses 0-20 motor oil, and you hear lifter knock every time you start it up... it’s a comfy city ride, w/ city street 4x4 dive, NOT for serious mud 4x4’ing..
Simply stated - the Tacoma's a truck, the Outback is a car. They both have 4x4 but you can't compare off road performance. Which is better all comes down to where you plan to drive it. They both have very good reputations.
Mine as well. I have the extended cab, not the crew cab. Cab size is perfect for errands and the dogs. Not so much if you carry more than one other person.
You can get the crew cab w/ a 6ft bed but that puts you in the mid-thirties, price wise.
Subarus have a solid reputation for reliability. Not on par with Toyota's reputation, but good nonetheless. The ride of the two vehicles will be worlds apart. The Tacoma rides like schidt. It is also noisy as hell. The Outback will get appreciably better economy. I use a truck bed often though, so I'd take the Tacoma.
I hate to admit it, but I agree. BIGGLY!
Taco’s ride and drive like schitt! Drove a girlfriends outback a couple of times and I was pretty damn impressed. And I’m not easily impressed. 🤠
But like I mentioned in my previous post, I’d buy a F-150 over both of those two any old day of the week and twice on Sunday. Buy the big EcoBoost V-6. It’ll get better gas mileage than the damn Taco and probably just about as good as the Outback. And out-pull the schitt outta both of them!!!
Sort of an apples to oranges comparison, the Tacoma is getting beat up some due to the old design, not up to the new Colorado and Ranger. Most folks who knock an Outback have never driven one. They will do a lot more than folks think they will. They are not however a pickup Truck. Looking at reliability, the Outback and Forester are rated 250K+, so are most of the Toyotas.
Not to hijack the thread, but what are you guys using for a photo hosting site? Can a computer illiterate use it? By the way, I'm on my second Tacoma - a '17 Club cab cause I needed a 6' box. I like the Quick Sand color too.
That 4 cylinder doesn't return very good fuel economy. I went from a Tacoma 4 to a Frontier 6 to a Ram 6. The Ram is superior to others in every regard. The Frontier was superior to the Tacoma in almost all regards. I have gotten as high as 29 MPG with my Ram on the highways of the mountain west. The Frontier did slightly better than the Tacoma, but they both struggled to give me 23 on the same routes. Get the 6 in the Tacoma if you insist on a crude, noisy, rough riding truck with an awkward seating position.
Wife has had Subarus, as well as a co-worker had a few and some friends also had several. I have a Tacoma. A few of the outbacks had some significant issues like unknown causes of using oil, head gasket problems, tire wear problems, and poor dealer resolution of those problems but were still good in bad weather and ran good otherwise. They are nice vehicles and I wanted to like them ,but we won't be getting another. The Honda we had was better. So I would vote Tacoma which is the one I've kept the longest and for the most miles without any signs of stopping.
Not to hijack the thread, but what are you guys using for a photo hosting site? Can a computer illiterate use it? By the way, I'm on my second Tacoma - a '17 Club cab cause I needed a 6' box. I like the Quick Sand color too.
i've had a outback since 15, it gets 26mpg all around, seats 4 comfortably, can haul at least one deer and a bunch of hunting clothes and 8 foot pieces of lumber. it will go through snow like no other 4x4 that i have owned or driven, including jeeps. no idea on the towing part though. my subie is a great vehicle. 29k OTD.
i've had a outback since 15, it gets 26mpg all around, seats 4 comfortably, can haul at least one deer and a bunch of hunting clothes and 8 foot pieces of lumber. it will go through snow like no other 4x4 that i have owned or driven, including jeeps. no idea on the towing part though. my subie is a great vehicle. 29k OTD.
The outback is great in the snow, almost unstoppable if not too deep. I also know you can fit a bull elk in the back of one if you leave the hatch up! Not sure if Birdie needs to consider those options though, hot in Texas!
Yep, another one. Haters going to hate. Subaru does have some funny leanings, but they still build a pretty good vehicle. I own an Outback, a '17 with 55K trouble free miles. I have not owned a Tacoma, but have several friends that do. I have ridden in, and drove several. Loud, rough ride, and for myself 6'2" 185# a piss poor seating position. Maybe different for others. If I need to pull the "Man Card" My Truck is a 2500HD 4X4 with the Duramax. It will go and tow anything I have any business trying to do.
Not to hijack the thread, but what are you guys using for a photo hosting site? Can a computer illiterate use it? By the way, I'm on my second Tacoma - a '17 Club cab cause I needed a 6' box. I like the Quick Sand color too.
Kool..........Quick Sand......luv it......... Imgur is easy for me........
I haven’t ridden in a Tacoma in years, but I like my friends’ Tundras. With the exception of two folks we know, most of the Subie drivers I see have Bern, Warren, or faded out Hillary bumper stickers or some such lib garbage on them. I’d say turn in your Man Card for the Outback. They sit too low to the ground for me. Hard to get in and out of too. Happy Trails
Tacoma’s are certainly reliable vehicles, but they are terribly uncomfortable on longer trips. That said, I would never find myself driving an Outback. Hard to beat a good ol F-150.
Decisions, decisions, won’t happen till at least next summer anyhow.
The appeal of the four-banger in the Tacoma is That appears to be the lineal descendent of the legendary R22 motor that built the reputation of Toyota trucks in the first place. Also I don’t need a truck with alla the gee-whiz I’m a bad ass factory decals that come with the bigger motor, especially in 4x4. Far more likely to get f cked with when left in the driveway where I live.
As far as hard ride and discomfort go, I’m sorta oblivious to all of that, never have test-drove a vehicle before I bought it. Doesn’t matter.
I've enjoyed my Taco that now has 270K on it. Be aware, the seat sits fairly low and your feet are out in front more than a bigger truck where it's more like sitting in a chair.
I fit fine but taller folks start squirming after a hundred miles or so...
Decisions, decisions, won’t happen till at least next summer anyhow.
The appeal of the four-banger in the Tacoma is That appears to be the lineal descendent of the legendary R22 motor that built the reputation of Toyota trucks in the first place. Also I don’t need a truck with alla the gee-whiz I’m a bad ass factory decals that come with the bigger motor, especially in 4x4. Far more likely to get f cked with when left in the driveway where I live.
As far as hard ride and discomfort go, I’m sorta oblivious to all of that, never have test-drove a vehicle before I bought it. Doesn’t matter.
JMHO
Really appreciate all the input here
Just as a FYI -- Auto insurance company's stats generally rate thievery/vandalism of vehicles based on type, models, year and brands in given regions. So, if insurance costs might be a concern, you may want to look into that before sealing a deal on a particular vehicle.
I had a little base model, standard cab, 4 cyl R22 Toyota 2 wheel drive back in the early '90s and my insurance company raised the price of coverage mid 2nd year I owned it. I had had no traffic violations or accident claims in decades so I called asking why the increase.
I was told, based on the region I was in (which covered hundreds miles and stretched into parts of other states), their stats showed a significant increase of Toyota trucks within certain year models being stolen and/or vandalized for resale of the parts and that the premium increase covered all owners of Toyota trucks of specific year and equipment models in my region.
Lightly used tacoma and if you can find one with a 6' bed get it. I had my tacoma for 10 years and it did everything I needed it to with hardly any mechanical issues. I finally outgrew it this year as it doesn't fit 3 kids and wasn't enough vehicle to tow the new camper.
I do see lots of Subarus with bicycle racks on them - not so many Tacomas. Maybe there is a hidden message there for you.
drover
That's cause with a tacoma ya just toss the bike in the back and go, no need for a rack!
Never made sense to me why people bought a truck, then turn it into an SUV by putting a cover over the bed.
I have a 2012 Tacoma V6, love it. I have the access cab (not full back seat), nobody approaching 5 feet shoudl ever sit back there, but I can put a bunch of stuff there (guns, bows, golf clubs). ATV fits in the back with the tailgate down (tight fit between the wheel wells.
To preface this, I'm gonna say that I generally have good luck with vehicles. I can't think of any (make that too many) that I regret buying.
And I've mostly been a Ford truck guy. F150 is my favorite truck, but that was up til about 2004 or so. I don't think there's a ford truck I'd own, made today. And I mostly buy used. Just my preference. I've had a 96 F250 that I bought with 75000 on the clock. Sold it at 293000 miles. It's still around. I see it occasionally. My last 02 F150 was bought at 104000 miles and sold at 270000 miles. It's still around, too.
I drive a lot of miles. I bought a new 2019 outback in February. It'll have 36000 on the clock when I get home from work tomorrow. I never get in the thing but I'm impressed with what it does. And I haven't done a lot of off road with it, but it does have around 1500 miles on Forest Service FR roads. Likely 250 miles on sketchy 2 tracks and roadless areas.
Bit of an edit here;If it's ever been graded, and if the downed trees are kept removed, I call it a road.
For the guy who likes to drive a ways to see pretty country and then drive the back roads once there, I can't see a better option than the Outback. Unless, of course, you NEED a truck. And I choke a little when I say it, but if I needed a truck today it'd likely be a Dodge.
I drive a lot of miles. I bought a new 2019 outback in February. It'll have 36000 on the clock when I get home from work tomorrow. I never get in the thing but I'm impressed with what it does. And I haven't done a lot of off road with it, but it does have around 1500 miles on Forest Service FR roads. Likely 250 miles on sketchy 2 tracks and roadless areas.
For the guy who likes to drive a ways to see pretty country and then drive the back roads once there, I can't see a better option than the Outback.
Tks.
My impetus for buying this vehicle in 2020 is that I want to have it paid off well before retirement. I'm 62 now, hoping to be able to work until age 70.
While working I only put 10-14,000 per year in a vehicle.
After retirement I envision travelling and camping extensively pulling either a 10' to 12' cargo trailer and at different times a small sailboat (~1,500lbs boat and trailer ).
Have just under 100,000 on a 2015 2.5L Outback. Just regular maintenance, nothing broken. Sit in the back seat and you will know it's a real station wagon. It handles and brakes well but not much road feel through the steering wheel. The CVT is working well, it always seems to get the best possible out of the four banger. It is not a quiet car at speed. We get just under 30 mpg. I eat hummingbirds.
Still speculating, gotta buy something next year. Prob'ly my last vehicle.
Needs; some moderate off road and towing capability
The $25,000-$30,000 bracket gets me a new lower-end 4WD Tacoma (9" ground clearance/3,000lb towing capacity).
or....
a new lower-end AWD Outback (8" ground clearance/2,700lb towing capacity)....
Can't get around it, gotta have four doors and a back seat. Don't anticipate towing more'n 2,000 lbs (small boat or cargo trailer).
The Tacoma has a 5ft bed, OTOH the Outback also has a pretty generous luggage capacity, especially with the back seats folded. I'd rather leave my stuff locked in back of an Outback than under a cover in the bed of a pickup.
I expect anything badged Toyota to run forever, how do Subarus hold up?
All thoughts appreciated. Given the price of a 4Runner, I was surprised at how inexpensive Outbacks are.
Not your question, but in true 24HCF style, I will throw in another suggestion. Highlander AWD - I got one, very happy with it. However, if it was me, I would go with the Tacoma, you can always get a bed cover or something along those line if wanting to keep things enclosed.
No worries, in my next life I’m gonna be a Doctor and marry a beautiful, intelligent and hard-working Peruvian woman, and we are gonna have bright, articulate and well-behaved kids....
....and drive a Highlander.....
Whatever happens, long as I don’t grow up to look like Renegade, I’m good.
One of the things I chose the Subaru for was it's fuel economy. Was told by the salesman that I'd likely see between 27-30 mpg. I very seldom get less than 32 or 33 mpg, and quite often better. Most any road trip will see 36-37 mpg average.
I tend to talk mine up like it's really something, but it's the lowest end base model. I went out the door for $24.5K including tax. It does have everything that I want on a car, and then some.
I built a small utility trailer some years back that I could buy back from it's owner. He is older now and never uses it. And I might put a hitch on the Outback and do that for very occasional use. If I wanted to pull a trailer on a regular basis, I'd have a truck.
Toyota V6 TRD, manual if they are still available.
Not listed for 2019 or 2020,
I have driven manual transmissions my whole life, both my Corollas are stick shifts.
Prob'ly will never own another tho, my '09 Corolla might as well be an automatic because the gas pedal is electronic, which means a computer algorithm mediates between your foot and the engine. Sucks, worst of all the lack of feel between you and the motor means that sometimes it'll stall when starting from a dead stop, sometimes in situations where you absolute don't want it to stall, like pulling out into heavy fast moving traffic.
You can buy a F-150 cheaper than you can buy a Ranger. AND have a much better truck that gets just as good gas mileage. And ride MUCH BETTER. And pull MUCH BETTER.
Toyota V6 TRD, manual if they are still available.
Not listed for 2019 or 2020,
I have driven manual transmissions my whole life, both my Corollas are stick shifts.
Prob'ly will never own another tho, my '09 Corolla might as well be an automatic because the gas pedal is electronic, which means a computer algorithm mediates between your foot and the engine. Sucks, worst of all the lack of feel between you and the motor means that sometimes it'll stall when starting from a dead stop, sometimes in situations where you absolute don't want it to stall, like pulling out into heavy fast moving traffic.
My experience - get a truck. I am a few years older than you and in my experience what you will find as you age is that getting down into and up out of a seat of a lower vehicle becomes more of an issue as one ages, it's is not that it can't be done but it is a lot more comfortable to step up into a truck than it is to have to lower and raise your total body weight every time you are getting in or out of a vehicle.
With regular maintenance any new truck is going to be good for as many miles as you plan on putting on it and will more than likely last without issues. I am not in the Tacoma camp though because I am 6'2", 190 lbs and I feel cramped in them and do not like the splayed seating position. Don't get mindset into one particular brand go drive them all and decide from there.
Finally got a good look at almost the exact Tacoma I’d buy, 4wd extended cab with a cap on the back.
I gotta say there ain’t much room at all in that extended cab (ya, I know.... “duh”) and while my 5’7” on a good day self could fit easily, I can see how bigger folks would have problems. All-round visibility (important while bird watching) ain’t that great either (another “duh”).
Outback would fit my lifestyle better.
Plan “C” is to just get another Corolla, with the $10,000 saved I could buy a motorcycle and/or put it towards a trip of a lifetime for me and my son and granddaughter and still have, at least officially, a 1,500lb towing capacity.
Taco all the way! I've had Taco's and a Tundra, great vehicles! Two guys at work have Subaru's and they are starting to have maintenance issues above 75K.
You can buy a F-150 cheaper than you can buy a Ranger. AND have a much better truck that gets just as good gas mileage. And ride MUCH BETTER. And pull MUCH BETTER.
And is a much bigger PITA to park/maneuver in tight places and too wide and unmaneuverable on tight offroad trails. Both of my Rangers had over 200k on them when I sold them. They were both still running good and gave me very little grief over the many years and miles I drove them.
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