After the family had been in the Mormon Church almost 30 years their youngest son who was on his two year mission in Florida tried to convert a Baptist pastor. The pastor patiently listened to him, then with compassion shared the gospel with him and challenged him to read the New Testament. The young Mormon missionary was very angry, but he began to read the New Testament in order to prove that the pastor was wrong.
As he read the Bible he began to know the truth about God and realized he had been deceived by the Mormon religion and that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. By that time his Mother had been a professor for several years at the prestigious Mormon school called Brigham Young University.
His Father and Mother both had advanced and served in high positions in the church. Their other two sons had served or were serving their two year missions and their daughter was also very devoted to the church.
The youngest son tried to get his siblings and his parents to read the New Testament but it was very difficult for them, especially for his parents, to make any change. It tore the family apart and it took a lot of time and pain before the parents began reading the New Testament. Gradually by reading the Bible and communicating with Christians secretly, they all, one by one, became strong enough in their relationship with God to resign from the Mormon Church.
I knew a fella that was Christian (Baptist maybe?) that converted to Islam. Completely changed his life, no more drinkin', gamblin' and whorin' around. Nice guy.
And there was the Catholic fella that converted to Buddhism. Another nice guy.
And what about those who go Jewish?
Just goes to show......................one never knows what will change a person's life for the better.
I knew a fella that was Christian (Baptist maybe?) that converted to Islam. Completely changed his life, no more drinkin', gamblin' and whorin' around. Nice guy.
And there was the Catholic fella that converted to Buddhism. Another nice guy.
And what about those who go Jewish?
Just goes to show......................one never knows what will change a person's life for the better.
Geno
change is coming to America! is that about it, in so many terms?
i've known completely devout christians convert to siddha yoga Buddhism.
and so it goes, when a thought process enters a certain brain type, change happens?
I knew a fella that was Christian (Baptist maybe?) that converted to Islam. Completely changed his life, no more drinkin', gamblin' and whorin' around. Nice guy.
And there was the Catholic fella that converted to Buddhism. Another nice guy.
And what about those who go Jewish?
Just goes to show......................one never knows what will change a person's life for the better.
Geno
Is it not sort of funny that Christians are okay but Mormons are not?
How do the Jews look at Christians? The same way Christians look at Mormons?
What about Zoroastrians?
What religion was Pliny the Elder? He was an interesting sort.
I knew a fella that was Christian (Baptist maybe?) that converted to Islam. Completely changed his life, no more drinkin', gamblin' and whorin' around. Nice guy.
And there was the Catholic fella that converted to Buddhism. Another nice guy.
And what about those who go Jewish?
Just goes to show......................one never knows what will change a person's life for the better.
Geno
Is it not sort of funny that Christians are okay but Mormons are not?
How do the Jews look at Christians? The same way Christians look at Mormons?
What about Zoroastrians?
What religion was Pliny the Elder? He was an interesting sort.
it becomes kinda eye-opening when a judastic type from berkeley converts to native american Great Spirit, and related including smoke lodges.
but to each his own. i'd never try to convert anyone to anything. let them discover it on their own. either in this life or at some point later on.
After the family had been in the Mormon Church almost 30 years their youngest son who was on his two year mission in Florida tried to convert a Baptist pastor. The pastor patiently listened to him, then with compassion shared the gospel with him and challenged him to read the New Testament. The young Mormon missionary was very angry, but he began to read the New Testament in order to prove that the pastor was wrong.
As he read the Bible he began to know the truth about God and realized he had been deceived by the Mormon religion and that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. By that time his Mother had been a professor for several years at the prestigious Mormon school called Brigham Young University.
His Father and Mother both had advanced and served in high positions in the church. Their other two sons had served or were serving their two year missions and their daughter was also very devoted to the church.
The youngest son tried to get his siblings and his parents to read the New Testament but it was very difficult for them, especially for his parents, to make any change. It tore the family apart and it took a lot of time and pain before the parents began reading the New Testament. Gradually by reading the Bible and communicating with Christians secretly, they all, one by one, became strong enough in their relationship with God to resign from the Mormon Church.
After the family had been in the Mormon Church almost 30 years their youngest son who was on his two year mission in Florida tried to convert a Baptist pastor. The pastor patiently listened to him, then with compassion shared the gospel with him and challenged him to read the New Testament. The young Mormon missionary was very angry, but he began to read the New Testament in order to prove that the pastor was wrong.
As he read the Bible he began to know the truth about God and realized he had been deceived by the Mormon religion and that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. By that time his Mother had been a professor for several years at the prestigious Mormon school called Brigham Young University.
His Father and Mother both had advanced and served in high positions in the church. Their other two sons had served or were serving their two year missions and their daughter was also very devoted to the church.
The youngest son tried to get his siblings and his parents to read the New Testament but it was very difficult for them, especially for his parents, to make any change. It tore the family apart and it took a lot of time and pain before the parents began reading the New Testament. Gradually by reading the Bible and communicating with Christians secretly, they all, one by one, became strong enough in their relationship with God to resign from the Mormon Church.
I knew a fella that was Christian (Baptist maybe?) that converted to Islam. Completely changed his life, no more drinkin', gamblin' and whorin' around. Nice guy.
And there was the Catholic fella that converted to Buddhism. Another nice guy.
And what about those who go Jewish?
Just goes to show......................one never knows what will change a person's life for the better.
Geno
That happened because they didn't spend quality time in the New Testament. Simple as that.
Mr. Johnson dies at a nice old age and being a good person he goes to Heaven. At the pearly gates St. Peter greets him and says "welcome to Heaven Mr . Johnson, let me show you around the place!"
They enter Heaven and Mr. Johnson is amazed, what a beautiful place. The first sight is a beautiful garden covered in flowers and there are many people sitting in lotus position and meditating. Mr. Johnson asks St. Peter who they are and he says they're Buddhists. Mr . Johnson is a bit surprised at first but being a good person he is very accepting and even relieved at the sight. Next they pass a large tent and there is the joyful sound of singing emanating from it and Mr Johnson starts to ask but St. Peter beats him to it and says with a big smile "Baptists!".
Walking on they pass many other groups of people from all over the world and many cultures and then walk past a large brick building with just one door and no windows, a prayer was being recited. At the end of the tour St. Peter asks Mr. Johnson if there is anything he needs to just holler and begins to walk away when Mr. Johnson pipes up "Oh, yes St.Peter there is one Thing I was wondering about?" St. Peters say"Yes what is it?" "I was wondering who were the people in that brick building with no windows?" "Oh.." St Peter answers.... "Those are the Catholics, they think they are the only ones up here."
After the family had been in the Mormon Church almost 30 years their youngest son who was on his two year mission in Florida tried to convert a Baptist pastor. The pastor patiently listened to him, then with compassion shared the gospel with him and challenged him to read the New Testament. The young Mormon missionary was very angry, but he began to read the New Testament in order to prove that the pastor was wrong.
As he read the Bible he began to know the truth about God and realized he had been deceived by the Mormon religion and that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. By that time his Mother had been a professor for several years at the prestigious Mormon school called Brigham Young University.
His Father and Mother both had advanced and served in high positions in the church. Their other two sons had served or were serving their two year missions and their daughter was also very devoted to the church.
The youngest son tried to get his siblings and his parents to read the New Testament but it was very difficult for them, especially for his parents, to make any change. It tore the family apart and it took a lot of time and pain before the parents began reading the New Testament. Gradually by reading the Bible and communicating with Christians secretly, they all, one by one, became strong enough in their relationship with God to resign from the Mormon Church.
You people are woefully misinformed about the Mormon Church.
i could be for sure. please inform us generally as a group, and use layman's language if you will. very few of us are seminarian trained, i'm thinking.
i once worked with a Mormon co-worker. very devout. very dedicated hard worker. had two jobs. passed from a heart attack while on his second job.
share with us. we'll try our best to better understand.
nothing in the new testament is in conflict with the "mormon" church. The LDS church believes the new testament to be the word of god. I wonder how reading scriptures, specifically the new testament is in conflict with the church, IN FACT THIS YEAR OUR ENTIRE CHURCH IS STUDYING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Lessons from the New testament are on specific parts of the new testament and are studied by family, church and youth lessons, all lessons are focused on the same specific sections of the new testament. In fact this weeks lessons are on James, which I might add is in the new testament.
The New Testament and the Old Testament are accredited Scripture in the LDS church - in fact, they are both studied in some depth in regular Sunday meetings.
Your undocumented, unreferenced "letter" is classic Mormon-bashing drivel.
There was a Morman boy that would come to Paradice camp on the Selway in Idaho where I was a packer and guide. He said he had 58 brothers and sisters and DAD had 19 wives, All with different houses on a big ranch he owned. There was joy to the Lord when the Government checks came to the wives once a month. What a scam. Seems the CHURCH helped him buy the ranch and he gave them a cut of the checks his wives got monthly. This according to the boy, I don't know for sure but he told it as fact.
You people are woefully misinformed about the Mormon Church.
i could be for sure. please inform us generally as a group, and use layman's language if you will. very few of us are seminarian trained, i'm thinking.
i once worked with a Mormon co-worker. very devout. very dedicated hard worker. had two jobs. passed from a heart attack while on his second job.
share with us. we'll try our best to better understand.
First thing being first Mormons ARE Christians. The DO read the Bible. They DON’T have multiple wives. Those are the primary preconceived notions that I feel need to be dispelled. Do they subscribe to some unusual beliefs in comparison to how they should live? And what they should eat or drink?Perhaps to someone on the outside looking in. But what religion doesn’t?
There was a Morman boy that would come to Paradice camp on the Selway in Idaho where I was a packer and guide. He said he had 58 brothers and sisters and DAD had 19 wives, All with different houses on a big ranch he owned. There was joy to the Lord when the Government checks came to the wives once a month. What a scam. Seems the CHURCH helped him buy the ranch and he gave them a cut of the checks his wives got monthly. This according to the boy, I don't know for sure but he told it as fact.
He wasn't a mormon boy, polygamy has been banned since the 1890's. Those practicing it or attempting to practice it will be excommunicated so fast it will make your head spin. Also I would add utah has some of the most strict anti polygamy laws in the nation. The state has also actively prosecuted groups that practice it, finding crimes that have been committed against under age girls etc. To say utah has turned its eye to this is flat out BS. They have went after it actually in my view.
man I wish people were more informed about things. The LDS chruch, mormon church's official name is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. That would indicate that we also believe in Christ, don't you think? We believe in the bible and lastly anyone that practices polygamy or attempts to will be thrown out of the church.
nothing in the new testament is in conflict with the "mormon" church. The LDS church believes the new testament to be the word of god. I wonder how reading scriptures, specifically the new testament is in conflict with the church, IN FACT THIS YEAR OUR ENTIRE CHURCH IS STUDYING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Lessons from the New testament are on specific parts of the new testament and are studied by family, church and youth lessons, all lessons are focused on the same specific sections of the new testament. In fact this weeks lessons are on James, which I might add is in the new testament.
Studying the New Testament is all well and good but that does not address doctrinal differences.
Are the “three heavens” consistent with the New Testament?
Does a Mormon have to perform works to achieve the telestial kingdom?
Is it true that everyone except the most vile go to one of the three heavens?
Does Mormonism teach that the “really good Mormons” can achieve God status?
Edit to add: Does a Mormon have to “endure in the faith” to achieve heaven. Is this not what is often called “works based salvation?”
I believe the Mormons ran into trouble everywhere they went prior to their decamping for Utah Because of their exclusionary economic system. I lived in Tremonton Utah (90 % Mormon) in the 60s as a protestant teenager and attended Mormon seminary in the 9th grade. There is no way the golden plates, their beliefs, or prophecy can stand up to even mild scrutiny. They are hard working industrious folks not unlike a nest of fire ants. It may be different now but a non-Mormon opening a business in Utah would have been boycotted except for the few who wouldn't pay their bills, and came requesting credit. In their Illinois problem back in the 1840s I believe taking over part of the state and plotting assassinations put them in bad odor. Where I live now the few we have seem pretty decent but they don't hold political sway and can't have their way in court against non-Mormons.
There was a Morman boy that would come to Paradice camp on the Selway in Idaho where I was a packer and guide. He said he had 58 brothers and sisters and DAD had 19 wives, All with different houses on a big ranch he owned. There was joy to the Lord when the Government checks came to the wives once a month. What a scam. Seems the CHURCH helped him buy the ranch and he gave them a cut of the checks his wives got monthly. This according to the boy, I don't know for sure but he told it as fact.
He wasn't a mormon boy, polygamy has been banned since the 1890's. Those practicing it or attempting to practice it will be excommunicated so fast it will make your head spin. Also I would add utah has some of the most strict anti polygamy laws in the nation. The state has also actively prosecuted groups that practice it, finding crimes that have been committed against under age girls etc. To say utah has turned its eye to this is flat out BS. They have went after it actually in my view.
man I wish people were more informed about things. The LDS chruch, mormon church's official name is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. That would indicate that we also believe in Christ, don't you think? We believe in the bible and lastly anyone that practices polygamy or attempts to will be thrown out of the church.
nothing in the new testament is in conflict with the "mormon" church. The LDS church believes the new testament to be the word of god. I wonder how reading scriptures, specifically the new testament is in conflict with the church, IN FACT THIS YEAR OUR ENTIRE CHURCH IS STUDYING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Lessons from the New testament are on specific parts of the new testament and are studied by family, church and youth lessons, all lessons are focused on the same specific sections of the new testament. In fact this weeks lessons are on James, which I might add is in the new testament.
Sure,
Just like some Christians believe nothing in the New Testament conflicts with anything in the Old Testament.
There was a Morman boy that would come to Paradice camp on the Selway in Idaho where I was a packer and guide. He said he had 58 brothers and sisters and DAD had 19 wives, All with different houses on a big ranch he owned. There was joy to the Lord when the Government checks came to the wives once a month. What a scam. Seems the CHURCH helped him buy the ranch and he gave them a cut of the checks his wives got monthly. This according to the boy, I don't know for sure but he told it as fact.
He wasn't a mormon boy, polygamy has been banned since the 1890's. Those practicing it or attempting to practice it will be excommunicated so fast it will make your head spin. Also I would add utah has some of the most strict anti polygamy laws in the nation. The state has also actively prosecuted groups that practice it, finding crimes that have been committed against under age girls etc. To say utah has turned its eye to this is flat out BS. They have went after it actually in my view.
man I wish people were more informed about things. The LDS chruch, mormon church's official name is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. That would indicate that we also believe in Christ, don't you think? We believe in the bible and lastly anyone that practices polygamy or attempts to will be thrown out of the church.
I'd be interested to know who the "Mother" that was a professor at BYU was, is she still professoring there, and if not is she professoring at some other college?
I'd be interested to know who the "Mother" that was a professor at BYU was, is she still professoring there, and if not is she professoring at some other college?
I'd be interested to know who the "Mother" that was a professor at BYU was, is she still professoring there, and if not is she professoring at some other college?
Geno
Good luck with that.
Yea, Ringman's stories are notoriously short on detail.
nothing in the new testament is in conflict with the "mormon" church. The LDS church believes the new testament to be the word of god. I wonder how reading scriptures, specifically the new testament is in conflict with the church, IN FACT THIS YEAR OUR ENTIRE CHURCH IS STUDYING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Lessons from the New testament are on specific parts of the new testament and are studied by family, church and youth lessons, all lessons are focused on the same specific sections of the new testament. In fact this weeks lessons are on James, which I might add is in the new testament.
Studying the New Testament is all well and good but that does not address doctrinal differences.
Are the “three heavens” consistent with the New Testament?
Does a Mormon have to perform works to achieve the telestial kingdom?
Is it true that everyone except the most vile go to one of the three heavens?
Does Mormonism teach that the “really good Mormons” can achieve God status?
Edit to add: Does a Mormon have to “endure in the faith” to achieve heaven. Is this not what is often called “works based salvation?”
did christ walk on water by himself? NO peter did as well. Did the apostles that were left to establish christ's early church perform miracles that were the same as the ones christ performed? YES they did. but wait I thought we didn't believe in the new testament? maybe you don't? So why is it a stretch to think that god would hoard all his knowledge and keep others from obtaining everything he has? Clearly Christ didn't hoard all the power and authority during his ministry, instead he shared it with his apostles.
its a law of nature, Whom so ever empowers the individual becomes more successful themselves. We see it everywhere in life. I believe empowering the individual is central to god's plan for us.
pretty much all the doctrinal beliefs by mainstream Christianity were formed by people who got together and voted on what they should be centuries ago. that doesn't make those beliefs or interpretations correct. Its easy to prove or disprove just about anything in the bible. The trinity is one aspect that can be proven or disproven in the bible.
YES the LDS church once practiced polygamy. but its been banned for a 130 years!!!!! YES there are still people and groups that still practice it. They are rogue groups who are actually ostracized by the rest of the population around here. These groups are viewed as weird and don't socialize with regular LDS church members. let me repeat those that practice polygamy separate themselves from us. We separate ourselves from them. We think they are weird people generally.
There was a Morman boy that would come to Paradice camp on the Selway in Idaho where I was a packer and guide. He said he had 58 brothers and sisters and DAD had 19 wives, All with different houses on a big ranch he owned. There was joy to the Lord when the Government checks came to the wives once a month. What a scam. Seems the CHURCH helped him buy the ranch and he gave them a cut of the checks his wives got monthly. This according to the boy, I don't know for sure but he told it as fact.
If the story is true, that absolutely is not the Morman church. That is some outlaw polygamist cult.
Yes, there are many close minded individuals on this board with much to learn about Mormans and SDA also for that matter.
As to Rich and the OP, please explain to us how the lives of that Morman family were improved by the strife you mentioned in your post? And how is it Christian to take personal pleasure in the pain this family endured?
My son was babtised into the Morman church at 17 years. That journey was the best thing that ever happened in his life.
nothing in the new testament is in conflict with the "mormon" church. The LDS church believes the new testament to be the word of god. I wonder how reading scriptures, specifically the new testament is in conflict with the church, IN FACT THIS YEAR OUR ENTIRE CHURCH IS STUDYING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Lessons from the New testament are on specific parts of the new testament and are studied by family, church and youth lessons, all lessons are focused on the same specific sections of the new testament. In fact this weeks lessons are on James, which I might add is in the new testament.
Studying the New Testament is all well and good but that does not address doctrinal differences.
Are the “three heavens” consistent with the New Testament?
Does a Mormon have to perform works to achieve the telestial kingdom?
Is it true that everyone except the most vile go to one of the three heavens?
Does Mormonism teach that the “really good Mormons” can achieve God status?
Edit to add: Does a Mormon have to “endure in the faith” to achieve heaven. Is this not what is often called “works based salvation?”
did christ walk on water by himself? NO peter did as well. Did the apostles that were left to establish christ's early church perform miracles that were the same as the ones christ performed? YES they did. but wait I thought we didn't believe in the new testament? maybe you don't? So why is it a stretch to think that god would hoard all his knowledge and keep others from obtaining everything he has? Clearly Christ didn't hoard all the power and authority during his ministry, instead he shared it with his apostles.
its a law of nature, Whom so ever empowers the individual becomes more successful themselves. We see it everywhere in life. I believe empowering the individual is central to god's plan for us.
pretty much all the doctrinal beliefs by mainstream Christianity were formed by people who got together and voted on what they should be centuries ago. that doesn't make those beliefs or interpretations correct. Its easy to prove or disprove just about anything in the bible. The trinity is one aspect that can be proven or disproven in the bible.
YES the LDS church once practiced polygamy. but its been banned for a 130 years!!!!! YES there are still people and groups that still practice it. They are rogue groups who are actually ostracized by the rest of the population around here. These groups are viewed as weird and don't socialize with regular LDS church members. let me repeat those that practice polygamy separate themselves from us. We separate ourselves from them. We think they are weird people generally.
If Joseph Smith would forge bank notes, why not gospel?
Illegal banking, February 1837 In February 1837, Samuel D. Rounds swore a writ against Smith and Sidney Rigdon for illegal banking and issuing unauthorized bank paper. At a hearing on March 24, the court found sufficient evidence for the case to go to trial. In October, Smith and Rigdon were tried in absentia after having left Ohio for Upper Canada. They were each found guilty and each fined $1000.[18][19]
"He was arrested seven times in four months, and his followers managed heroically to raise the $38,428 required for bail.
If he would defraud a bank, why not his followers?
Banking fraud, 1838 After a warrant was issued for Smith's arrest on a charge of banking fraud, Smith and Rigdon fled Kirtland for Missouri on the night of January 12, 1838.
Perjury, fornication and polygamy???
At last two of those are covered in the Old Testament:
Perjury, fornication and polygamy, May 1844 In May 1844, a Hancock County grand jury indicted Smith for perjury, fornication and polygamy. The charge of perjury was based on testimony by Joseph H. Jackson and Robert D. Foster, while William Law's testimony led to charges of fornication and polygamy.[43] Smith appeared before the Circuit Court and his trial was postponed until the next term of the court.
I had a couple young missionaries stop by my place recently. Very fine young men who demonstrate a courage of conviction rare outside of Leftist circles these days.
When they found out I was an old school Protestant Christian they downplayed differences between us while suggesting I could benefit from converting. When I asked to what I’d be converted since there are so few differences between us according to their former line of argumentation they were baffled.
I won’t claim to know anything much about Mormonism beyond the fact that by their own claim they’re not Christians in the strict, confessional sense. There are many differences amongst Christian sects, but the Orthodox, Romanist, and (historic) Protestants all agree on a set of small-c catholic (or universal) creeds including the Apostles, Athanasian, and Nicene.
One can agree or disagree with the substance of those creeds I have no problem with that, but if that isn’t Christianity then words don’t mean anything at all except what the individual saying them says they do. That’s relativism and Leads to nothing but nihilism.
When cuminscowboy says “we believe in Jesus” that’s hyper vague. The historically Christian definition of that phrase is found in those creeds, and Mormons don’t believe them.
I don’t know how or why, but they wouldn’t feel the need to, onone hand downplay differences, while then turning around and trying to convert me otherwise.
Remember that the guy who started the thread thinks the universe is something like 6000 years old. I wouldn't guess his knowledge of Mormon theology is any more accurate.
nothing in the new testament is in conflict with the "mormon" church. The LDS church believes the new testament to be the word of god. I wonder how reading scriptures, specifically the new testament is in conflict with the church, IN FACT THIS YEAR OUR ENTIRE CHURCH IS STUDYING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Lessons from the New testament are on specific parts of the new testament and are studied by family, church and youth lessons, all lessons are focused on the same specific sections of the new testament. In fact this weeks lessons are on James, which I might add is in the new testament.
Studying the New Testament is all well and good but that does not address doctrinal differences.
Are the “three heavens” consistent with the New Testament? Yes. Found in 1st Corinthians 15
Does a Mormon have to perform works to achieve the telestial kingdom? No. Faith in Christ is necessary. Works are your outward show of faith, but it is through Christ that we are saved.
Is it true that everyone except the most vile go to one of the three heavens? Yes, again 1st Corinthians 15
Does Mormonism teach that the “really good Mormons” can achieve God status? We can become god-like. Are we not all invited to become like Him?
Edit to add: Does a Mormon have to “endure in the faith” to achieve heaven. Is this not what is often called “works based salvation?”
Some on here claim the bible is perfect. Yet, it has many contradictions. It has many verses that state opposites. Google up contradictions in the bible. The book of Revelations was written before many other books in the new testament, Christians use the end of it to claim nothing can be added...why then don't they toss out the books written after the book of revelations? Is the bible perfect? Based on dead sea scrolls and other documents, we are discovering much was not correctly handed down or translated correctly. Why do Christian's opt to ignore many other documents of antiquity?
The resurrected Christ to the apostles appeared with a body of flesh and bones. Yet Christian's assert that he is a spirit and does not have a body. Why?
Here is a couple of other troubling issues, you attack the Book of Mormon, yet its description of the tree of life was confirmed by other texts of antiquity that have come forth since the 1950s.
In the 1960s, it was discovered that the Book of Mormon had lots of Hebrew poetry and was a great source for examples of Hebrew poetry. The LDS church asserts that Book of Mormon has a Hebrew back ground.
Baptists assert that the thieves crucified with along side Jesus went to heaven. Yet, Peter teaches that Christ, during the time his body laid in the tomb, went to the spirit world to teach the gospel. Herein lies a challenge for me, why would Christ be preaching to the dead if we had to accept him in this life to be saved????
Here is another interesting question, why do the translations of Isiah in the Book of Mormon have a better match to the dead sea scrolls than our current old testament???
Why is the LDS community slammed for plural marriage, when it was common during the 1800s. The restaurant in New York who invented potato chips was a polygamist. There were a number of polygamists in the south even after the civil war. God gave multiple wives to many of the patriarchs of the old testament.
Why do Christian churches need a paid ministry. That conflicts with the new testament?
Researchers have found that Paul, after his vision in acts, went east for three years. (read Galations for a specific derail). Where did he go???? Some very renowned biblical scholars assert that he had a great understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
my advice, do not criticize what you have not read for yourself and that includes the Book of Mormon
nothing in the new testament is in conflict with the "mormon" church. The LDS church believes the new testament to be the word of god. I wonder how reading scriptures, specifically the new testament is in conflict with the church, IN FACT THIS YEAR OUR ENTIRE CHURCH IS STUDYING THE NEW TESTAMENT!!! Lessons from the New testament are on specific parts of the new testament and are studied by family, church and youth lessons, all lessons are focused on the same specific sections of the new testament. In fact this weeks lessons are on James, which I might add is in the new testament.
Studying the New Testament is all well and good but that does not address doctrinal differences.
Are the “three heavens” consistent with the New Testament? Yes. Found in 1st Corinthians 15
Does a Mormon have to perform works to achieve the telestial kingdom? No. Faith in Christ is necessary. Works are your outward show of faith, but it is through Christ that we are saved.
Is it true that everyone except the most vile go to one of the three heavens? Yes, again 1st Corinthians 15
Does Mormonism teach that the “really good Mormons” can achieve God status? We can become god-like. Are we not all invited to become like Him?
Edit to add: Does a Mormon have to “endure in the faith” to achieve heaven. Is this not what is often called “works based salvation?”
Well, you refer to New Testament passages without explaining and without comparing corresponding Mormon doctrine.....and you sense there is no conflict with Mormon doctrine. I don’t see any reference to the three heavens at all in 1 Corinthians 15.. Perhaps you do, but if you do, that is a really long stretch. Another clear example of the perils of eisegesis.
Read whatever you want into the NT scriptures to justify a Mormonism heresy.....eisegesis?....... yep.
The site “MormonWiki” has an article on the Mormon plan of salvation. Clearly in conflict with NT doctrine. But, you may not see it.
I suspect the reason you see no conflict between Mormon doctrine and NT doctrine..... “as you understand it”... is that you do not understand NT doctrine.
I knew a fella that was Christian (Baptist maybe?) that converted to Islam. Completely changed his life, no more drinkin', gamblin' and whorin' around. Nice guy.
Just goes to show......................one never knows what will change a person's life for the better.
The New Testament and the Old Testament are accredited Scripture in the LDS church - in fact, they are both studied in some depth in regular Sunday meetings.
Your undocumented, unreferenced "letter" is classic Mormon-bashing drivel.
I knew a fella that was Christian (Baptist maybe?) that converted to Islam. Completely changed his life, no more drinkin', gamblin' and whorin' around. Nice guy.
Just goes to show......................one never knows what will change a person's life for the better.
I had a couple young missionaries stop by my place recently. Very fine young men who demonstrate a courage of conviction rare outside of Leftist circles these days.
When they found out I was an old school Protestant Christian they downplayed differences between us while suggesting I could benefit from converting. When I asked to what I’d be converted since there are so few differences between us according to their former line of argumentation they were baffled.
I won’t claim to know anything much about Mormonism beyond the fact that by their own claim they’re not Christians in the strict, confessional sense. There are many differences amongst Christian sects, but the Orthodox, Romanist, and (historic) Protestants all agree on a set of small-c catholic (or universal) creeds including the Apostles, Athanasian, and Nicene.
One can agree or disagree with the substance of those creeds I have no problem with that, but if that isn’t Christianity then words don’t mean anything at all except what the individual saying them says they do. That’s relativism and Leads to nothing but nihilism.
When cuminscowboy says “we believe in Jesus” that’s hyper vague. The historically Christian definition of that phrase is found in those creeds, and Mormons don’t believe them.
I don’t know how or why, but they wouldn’t feel the need to, onone hand downplay differences, while then turning around and trying to convert me otherwise.
Just my $.02...
Your 2 cents worth is worth a ticket to eternity in heaven.
I don’t have any animosity towards Mormons and part of what makes this country so great is that we can all choose to believe in God or choose not to believe in God. Mormons, like Catholics, Lutherans, Baptist’s, Hindus, etc, etc are free to preach whatever doctrine they want and they can spread all the dogma that they want. As long as they’re not hurting or abusing anyone and that women and children aren’t harmed then they’re free to worship and believe whatever they want, no matter how goofy or crazy. 😉. They can dance with snakes and wear special underwear for all I care. 😂
I notice often that there’s more angst caused by those that focus on minutiae and they lose sight of the bigger picture. Christ died for my sins and I thank him for it everyday. I ask for guidance, patience, tolerance and countless other things that I need to be better at, if I intentionally disparage another “Christian” faith then my prayers aren’t sincere. I’m human and I fail, often, but I try to learn from my failures and with the guidance that Christ offers I find I’m constantly doing course corrections because my relationship with my Lord and Savior is something that I’m very sincere about.
It’s my long winded way of saying that I’m cool with whatever denomination you are or you aren’t, if you’re a Mormon, Hindu, Buddhist, etc (not goatfucking Muslims.....I still hate those SOB’s and it’s NOT because of their religion) then enjoy life and live a life of service to others in whatever capacity you can.....
Hating someone solely based upon their religion is like hating someone based solely on their skin color, ignorant.
I have to wonder sometimes at the animosity towards Mormons (or other faiths), shown by fellow Christians. Seems to me in these troubled times, it'd be better to find common ground with each other, rather than pick apart and ostracize. But hey, religion has that effect on people.
So, me in a nutshell: I love my little family, care for them, pray with them. We thank God every night for his Son's atoning sacrifice for mankind. Second to that, I work hard to provide for my family. After that, I love to hunt and shoot (I shoot a 270win AND a 6.5 Creedmoor). I help as many people as I can to be successful on hunts, to help build their passion for the outdoors and pursuit of the critters I love.
But alas, I'm an LDS Mormon, so let's focus on our differences (real, perceived, or purposefully misrepresented) in theology, and forget all about what we have in common. Even though there's a whole world out there that hates what we all love. (shaking my head)
NT vs Book of M = Paul vs Joe. Both fell down and saw the light, claim Jesus came to them, their words and writings created churches. They are either right or wrong but have the same claim.
I always figured Christ didn't write anything to avoid this type of projection in his name. He came and gave us his life example because obviously man can't get it right regarding belief, the Holy spirit is our guide, not religions.
I like Mormons and have Mormon friends. I would share a campfire with a Mormon any day. But, based on my beliefs and Mormon theology, we are not the same religion.
After the family had been in the Mormon Church almost 30 years their youngest son who was on his two year mission in Florida tried to convert a Baptist pastor. The pastor patiently listened to him, then with compassion shared the gospel with him and challenged him to read the New Testament. The young Mormon missionary was very angry, but he began to read the New Testament in order to prove that the pastor was wrong.
As he read the Bible he began to know the truth about God and realized he had been deceived by the Mormon religion and that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. By that time his Mother had been a professor for several years at the prestigious Mormon school called Brigham Young University.
His Father and Mother both had advanced and served in high positions in the church. Their other two sons had served or were serving their two year missions and their daughter was also very devoted to the church.
The youngest son tried to get his siblings and his parents to read the New Testament but it was very difficult for them, especially for his parents, to make any change. It tore the family apart and it took a lot of time and pain before the parents began reading the New Testament. Gradually by reading the Bible and communicating with Christians secretly, they all, one by one, became strong enough in their relationship with God to resign from the Mormon Church.
Please share the source of you story.
Maybe this was already mentioned. I haven't read this whole thread and I won't enter this debate today. The original source is the book "Unveiling Grace" and was written by the mother of the boy mentioned above, who was the professor at BYU. I have read the book and heard much of the account from that boy (now man) in person. It's real, whether you agree with it or not.
.. There are many differences amongst Christian sects, but the Orthodox, Romanist, and (historic) Protestants all agree on a set of small-c catholic (or universal) creeds including the Apostles, Athanasian, and Nicene.
Re; Apostles Creed and Athanasian Creed , ... did they actually become accepted/agreed upon by the Eastern orthodox like you claim?
maybe can you affirm your claim by telling when the eastern church officially recognized them.
As for the Nicene creed being accepted, its understandable since the vast majority of bishops in attendance were from the East.
Originally Posted by efw
One can agree or disagree with the substance of those creeds I have no problem with that, but if that isn’t Christianity then words don’t mean anything at all except what the individual saying them says they do. ..
Nicene creed (325) the one that came about as result of threats, intimidation, bribery, vote stacking, and the emperor [who called it] exiling those who did not endorse it.
only for its composition to be altered [have parts of it omitted and new parts added] at the 2nd Ecumenical Council; 381.
Then at the 3rd council (Ephesus; 431) the original shakey ground 325 creed was reaffirmed and a law put in place to prevent it being altered again.
Who would seriously invest their spiritual faith/belief in that sort of corrupted,contrived political agenda garbage?
Mormons, like Catholics, Lutherans, Baptist’s, Hindus, etc, etc are free to preach whatever doctrine they want..
Christianity has been a self-interest driven game of oneupmanship for two millennia and counting, ...[Constantine called the council cause rival christians were constantly at each others throats and destabilizing the region he ruled]....Being free to believe or preach what you want does not and will not prevent christians continually bashing christians who are 'different'.
Mormons, like Catholics, Lutherans, Baptist’s, Hindus, etc, etc are free to preach whatever doctrine they want..
Christianity has been a self-interest driven game up oneupmanship for two millennia and counting, ...[Constantine called the council cause rival christians were constantly at each others throats and destabilizing the region he ruled]....Being free to believe or preach what you want does not and will not prevent christians continually bashing christians who are 'different'.
i allus liked the way the catholics rolled the independent monastery type "christians" into the main group. they set them up as orders, or groups and allowed them to become 'sects' inside the mainstream church. it cut down on a lot of confusion, competition, and other difficult circumstances.
the variety of desert fathers "out there' were pretty diverse as i best understand it. but of course i didn't attend seminary, so what could i possibly know?
I knew a fella that was Christian (Baptist maybe?) that converted to Islam. Completely changed his life, no more drinkin', gamblin' and whorin' around. Nice guy.
And there was the Catholic fella that converted to Buddhism. Another nice guy.
And what about those who go Jewish?
Just goes to show......................one never knows what will change a person's life for the better.
Geno
Only Muslin guy I ever knew well was one I went to college with(we shot pool every Tuesday, back in 1995), used to hang out mostly with a little irish guy. Those two used to smoke too much. Other than that, the only difference between him and the rest of the guys I shot pool with was he only drank vodka. Said he wasn't supposed to drink booze made from grain or grapes, but potatoes were alright.
the variety of desert fathers "out there' were pretty diverse...
and what they may have agreed upon at Ecumenical Councils like Nicaea 325( through duress or other influences) was not what they necessarily went back and began to preach....some simply agreed in the presence of the council, yet returned home and largely carried on with their own differing established beliefs.
the Christian story has got more holes in it than Swiss cheese...yet there be billions of bible or crucifix toting clowns claiming to know [their own convenient preferred version] of what they allege is the truth.
One would have to wonder why a brilliant God would create such a widely stupid lot.
I knew a fella that was Christian (Baptist maybe?) that converted to Islam. Completely changed his life, no more drinkin', gamblin' and whorin' around. Nice guy.
And there was the Catholic fella that converted to Buddhism. Another nice guy.
And what about those who go Jewish?
Just goes to show......................one never knows what will change a person's life for the better.
Geno
Only Muslin guy I ever knew well was one I went to college with(we shot pool every Tuesday, back in 1995), used to hang out mostly with a little irish guy. Those two used to smoke too much. Other than that, the only difference between him and the rest of the guys I shot pool with was he only drank vodka. Said he wasn't supposed to drink booze made from grain or grapes, but potatoes were alright.
Seemed like a decent enough guy.
Potato booze was OK?
Alright, but did he make sure that vodka wasn't distilled from grain as a large proportion of it is?
