I only have experience with Type B, using stainless crimp connectors.
I chose the stainless connectors based on ease of use. Copper compression ring tools need greater spacial access and periodical calibration.
Direct burial is OK. Warnings for UV exposure are probably a bit conservative. I've had a temporary exposed water line run at my cabin in Sterling for 2 years with 100% exposure and so far no issues. I wouldn't want to do it for permanent run, but it works for now. Flushing toilets keep others happy!
Type A is technically superior, but both are very good. If using a contractor that has the expansion tool for Type A, that would be my preference. If doing the work myself I would chose Type B based primarily on the cost of the connection tool. Assuming buying tools. If rental is available then a toss up and run the numbers.
A properly installed hydrant has stone around the base to allow it to drain from the bottom. Pex, CTS, or even 180 psi black poly will work underground. Sharkbites will work on the pex just fine. If you have rocky soil consider running the line in pvc for protection. Install a ball valve in the house for service later on.
only use shark bites where you can see them so you can detect leakage and where it’s open so you can change them
Don’t use the homedepot tools, or the new crimp types the older heavy duty commercial crimped is fine, just make sure you check the crimps to see if they are tight enough or the tool needs adjustment. I use the copper crimps from a real plumbing supply vs. the shark bite brand from Home Depot.
Our water piping froze and broke last winter at deer camp. I ran pex last week from the pump to all the end users we wanted. I had never done it but watched a few youtube videos. It was easy to do and will be easier if any repairs are needed. It is faster to put in than the other types of pipe. As of now none of my connections leaked a drop if they do I can cut them off add in a straight and a short piece and recrimp in less than 5 minutes. I used the copper crimp rings.
I used B. Its stiffer and harder to work with, but I read that when used in chlorinated water it doesn't leach chemicals as bad as Pex A. Having said that, keep in mind that all pipes leach chemicals.
Where ex-stream durability is required I have stepped up to sch 80 PVC, If I'm not running copper which is my preference. . I have a neighbor whom right at this very moment has a plumbing contractor re-plumbing a home he owns that was plumbed with Pex in a crawl area.. It has been destroyed by rodents... It's being replaced with PVC.
Inside a heated homes walls Pex is probably the cat's pajamas of plumbing options today. Properly coached a novice can do a somewhat professional appearing job.
In areas where plumbing might be subject to freezing I question the use of Pex. It's hard to straighten out for install, If you are winterizing a cabin for the season and blowing out all water lines Pex has a habit of holding water in all the low areas created due to not being flat or straight if you get what I'm saying. Come spring, there can be multiple frozen areas due to the low spots holding water after being blow out. Warming it up before unrolling and getting it as straight as possible may help overcome this problem.
It's good to -50 with out rupture, but once it freezes your options of thawing are limited. No quickie job with a torch, no clamping on a welder and heat taping is controversial.
Pex can stand freezing, but what about any valves, and such?
Now you're back to the heat tape/Pex issue, all valves that are in areas known to be subject to freezing must be heat taped. I've seen Pex wrapped with foil and then heat taped, not so sure how that works out.
I am thinking of our place in NW Ontario. I tried draining PVC pipes by gravity draining. That worked at times, and not at other times.
That is what I call properly done, being sure they "vent" right while draining helps a lot. Every spigot opened, shower risers are often missed as are dishwasher control valves.
Originally Posted by wabigoon
Now I use air to blow the lines, and get along fine so far.
It sure helps the job go quicker but you have to close all the valves and re-open them a time or two in the process. Most Pex installs leave a hundred little whoop-de-doos where water will lay even when you think you have everything blown clear.
On the fittings, the type that slide in and get 'cinched' down, a 1/2" pipe no longer is a 1/2" pipe because every fitting becomes a choke point. That restricted flow may or may not be an issue depending on the end use of that run.
The fitting that expands the pex, is slid in, then the ring is 'crimped' on, the fitting is not a restriction. 1/2" stays 1/2" of flow.
Fascinating. Not knowing any of this stuff I buried a garden hose between the house and a manifold at the garden made of PVC pieces from Menard's. That was 15-20 years ago and still works fine. (disconnect from the house and open the drain valve on the manifold before freeze-up) Ignorance is bliss.
On the fittings, the type that slide in and get 'cinched' down, a 1/2" pipe no longer is a 1/2" pipe because every fitting becomes a choke point. That restricted flow may or may not be an issue depending on the end use of that run.
The fitting that expands the pex, is slid in, then the ring is 'crimped' on, the fitting is not a restriction. 1/2" stays 1/2" of flow.
The welder we use is hand held and heated with an acetylene torch and rosebud tip.
I've seen them, it does fine, it's not like the big trailer style butt welder is a whole lot faster. You gotta have the little one to get to a lot of fittings anyway.
Pex can stand freezing, but what about any valves, and such?
Now you're back to the heat tape/Pex issue, all valves that are in areas known to be subject to freezing must be heat taped. I've seen Pex wrapped with foil and then heat taped, not so sure how that works out.
Depends on where you live.... Here in the far north of Louisiana, it's a good idea to use heat tapes, but not really needed. We just put the foam insulation on the outside pipes and they dont freeze. Bury lines 6" in the ground and they are ok. I do have heat tapes on the well pump and lines, but only because they are harder to wrap. Heat tapes are easy. Lots of people just use a light bulb to keep things from freezing.
Pex can stand freezing, but what about any valves, and such?
Now you're back to the heat tape/Pex issue, all valves that are in areas known to be subject to freezing must be heat taped. I've seen Pex wrapped with foil and then heat taped, not so sure how that works out.
Depends on where you live.... Here in the far north of Louisiana, it's a good idea to use heat tapes, but not really needed. We just put the foam insulation on the outside pipes and they dont freeze. Bury lines 6" in the ground and they are ok. I do have heat tapes on the well pump and lines, but only because they are harder to wrap. Heat tapes are easy. Lots of people just use a light bulb to keep things from freezing.
Again, it depends on where you live.
Sure, requirements differ with region. The OP is in Alaska, Wabigoon and I were discussing his home in NW Ontario when the need for heat tapes was mentioned. In Alaska 6 to 8 feet below ground can be considered winter safe, in Montana it's often 4 to 6 feet. At my Florida home my supply line running to the house is 16 inches deep.
Once it's done, nobody will see it. Whatever line will be buried 6'+ and covered w 2" blueboard prior to backfill. It is to fill horse waterer. My wife is tired of me making her haul 125' of garden hose outside in the winter.
I'll need to T in to an existing line in the crawlspace (heated) out to the hydrant (buried valve). No need to blow out. The water will be run every 2-3 days to fill tank. HT is just to have available just in case. Doubtful It will freeze.
I started out cutting and threading iron pipe and graduated to sweating copper pipe as my norm for in residential applications. I gave a ho-hum to Pex (cross-linked polyethylene) probably due to the massive failure of Quest pipe (polybutylene 1978-1996) Quest was the predecessor of Pex. Now, given time it has proven it's self, it is probably going to be around from now on. It has it's strengths and weaknesses much like the copper pipe I prefer.
For industrial applications HDPE (high-density polyethylene) has taken the trade by storm, much like Pex has in residential applications. HDPE is now used where once PVC, Stainless and even Cast Iron pipe once ruled the roost.
My experience has been from hands on to project engineering oversight.
I have a plumber neighbor who today has a couple of hundred trucks on the road daily. His crews are pretty young, few have a clue of how to sweat copper pipe, I doubt most would even recognize let alone know how to operate a pipe threader if one was in front of them. PEX rules their world, the plumbing trade involving installation of copper or iron pipe is lost.
Old plumbers don’t like that pex stuff much. It looks like cshit no matter how you install it.
I know of a successful plumber in NJ that did the copper on my parents new home back in 1963. He related a story about getting a service call of pipe leakage a few years back and the 40 year old copper pipes were so worn out that they could be crushed by hand pressure. I would not even think of having a home not built with Pex tubing in it.
I know of a successful plumber in NJ that did the copper on my parents new home back in 1963. He related a story about getting a service call of pipe leakage a few years back and the 40 year old copper pipes were so worn out that they could be crushed by hand pressure. I would not even think of having a home not built with Pex tubing in it.
That has a lot to do with what they have put in the water over the last 40 years in NJ. We'll see what 40 years does to the new PEX fittings and those little rings it's crimped together with.
. It is to fill horse waterer. My wife is tired of me making her haul 125' of garden hose outside in the winter. .
It'd be easier to just get rid of the horses...........Just sayin'.
No can do.
My stock water source has always been a year round spring. I just let it run all winter, makes for a hell'ov a mess in the spring and late fall....lol..
Our house in Tenn[purchased last year] has all Pex lines. It is odd stuff when all that one is used to is copper which is what we've had both built houses done in. I see you guys speaking of two different types of Pex? Differences?
I know of a successful plumber in NJ that did the copper on my parents new home back in 1963. He related a story about getting a service call of pipe leakage a few years back and the 40 year old copper pipes were so worn out that they could be crushed by hand pressure. I would not even think of having a home not built with Pex tubing in it.
That has a lot to do with what they have put in the water over the last 40 years in NJ. We'll see what 40 years does to the new PEX fittings and those little rings it's crimped together with.
Actually they ran significantly less chlorine thru those lines then they did where I lived in FL and I mean a lot less. I would not want Pex with those crimp rings on any house I move into. I have been in mine for 18 years with no issues and it is crimped but it won't happen again after speaking to my brother.
Those are the type fittings I have in Tenn. One thing that I couldn't understand is that the main line enters crawl-space, about 2' in it had a T going to outside spigot with no shutoff. Of course the the spigot had split and was wrapped in some type of aluminum tape with a sealant substance[adhesive]. Thanks to Shark-Bite it now has a shutoff and new freeze free spigot. First excursion into any plumbing beyond replacing a faucet or hose and I felt like I accomplished something!
No he didn't, he tried a little to fix it but you could tell he knew it was too late, the band had already seated and gripped. if it was copper, he could have heated it back up and fixed that.
I've used that product and tool demonstrated in the video, by the end of the day your arms and hands get real tired of pumping that tool. There is now a battery powered tool for that job, last time I priced one it was around $600.00.
I did a similar thing a few years ago, and I ran my water line inside 2 1/2" schedule 40. I was running it under a gravel driveway and I didn't want to chance gravel damaging the line. I ran the PVC close to both ends and then pulled the 1" water line through with a rope. Just suck a bread wrapper through with a sting tied to it using a vacuum cleaner, and then use that to pull the rope through. On each end I capped the schedule 40 with a rubber cap fastened by stainless clamps. I just punched a hole in them for the water line. It was a big job digging the trench and replacing two sections of concrete sidewalk but now I can change the line in the future and only have to dig a hole at each end. Oh yeah...I used 45 degree fittings instead of 90s so there weren't any tight corners.
Pex can stand freezing, but what about any valves, and such?
Now you're back to the heat tape/Pex issue, all valves that are in areas known to be subject to freezing must be heat taped. I've seen Pex wrapped with foil and then heat taped, not so sure how that works out.
Depends on where you live.... Here in the far north of Louisiana, it's a good idea to use heat tapes, but not really needed. We just put the foam insulation on the outside pipes and they dont freeze. Bury lines 6" in the ground and they are ok. I do have heat tapes on the well pump and lines, but only because they are harder to wrap. Heat tapes are easy. Lots of people just use a light bulb to keep things from freezing.
Again, it depends on where you live.
Sure, requirements differ with region. The OP is in Alaska, Wabigoon and I were discussing his home in NW Ontario when the need for heat tapes was mentioned. In Alaska 6 to 8 feet below ground can be considered winter safe, in Montana it's often 4 to 6 feet. At my Florida home my supply line running to the house is 16 inches deep.
I missed that the OP was in Alaska, my mistake. I wouldn't know where to begin trying, to keep things thawed out up there.
Pex can stand freezing, but what about any valves, and such?
Now you're back to the heat tape/Pex issue, all valves that are in areas known to be subject to freezing must be heat taped. I've seen Pex wrapped with foil and then heat taped, not so sure how that works out.
Depends on where you live.... Here in the far north of Louisiana, it's a good idea to use heat tapes, but not really needed. We just put the foam insulation on the outside pipes and they dont freeze. Bury lines 6" in the ground and they are ok. I do have heat tapes on the well pump and lines, but only because they are harder to wrap. Heat tapes are easy. Lots of people just use a light bulb to keep things from freezing.
Again, it depends on where you live.
Sure, requirements differ with region. The OP is in Alaska, Wabigoon and I were discussing his home in NW Ontario when the need for heat tapes was mentioned. In Alaska 6 to 8 feet below ground can be considered winter safe, in Montana it's often 4 to 6 feet. At my Florida home my supply line running to the house is 16 inches deep.
I missed that the OP was in Alaska, my mistake. I wouldn't know where to begin trying, to keep things thawed out up there.
Keeping it from freezing isn't the problem. Too many piping choices.
I have a tendency to overthink some projects. This is one.
Originally I planned go use soft-tube 1/2" Cu. Pard put in a very similar line for his horses some years ago. "Just use 1" ABS tube like I did" he says. Ok. That'll work fine.
Another fella that works at the rental shop suggested PEX and shark bite connectors. Ok. That'll work and be easier. That's what prompted this thread.
Talked with Jeffa, and he suggested PVC pipe. Eazy/peasy. Ok. That'll work fine. I was convinced.
I go to Ferguson plumbing supply to get what I needed to get this done this weekend. Counter guy convinced me to go PEX. No joints underground. Easy to cut and splice. So easy I can do it.*
So, that's where I'm at. Got all I need, I believe. Got a Crackerjack to run the excavator (pard bearhuntr - member here). We'll get after it as soon as we have light.
*I would gladly do any other aspect of construction rather than plumbing.
Roofing 30' in the air? I'm your huckleberry.
Changing out switches, outlets, or even breakers on hot circuits? No worries. I'm there.
Making water or waste go somewhere? Fughk. And no.
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