Over the last 15 years I have been prescribed a statin drug several times. That would be at low intensity. My cholesterol total and ratio have always been in the normal range. I'm given that because of my type 2 diabetes. They say it is to prevent heart disease.

Here's the thing, even at low dose every statin drug I've tried has ended up in whole body muscle pain, fatigue and some confusion. I tell the doctor that and he says I need to take them anyway. In this last one I tried taking CQ-10, which helped some but did not do the trick.

So I guess my choice is either living my life with this pain and weakness OR risk future heart disease. Well, I don't fear death but do fear incapacitation. I value the quality of my life now over some future projections.

No more statins, doc doesn't like it but it is my life.

Daughter in law is a PhD pharmacist and she told me under no circumstances allow your doctor to prescribe you any statin drug. My close friend who is a orthopedic surgeon says exactly the same thing. Increases your risk for stroke and heart attack.

My heart doc says I do need them.

They do manage my cholesterol well.

Not a fan of taking any medication. But I take a statin and a blood thinner daily.

I don't care much for the alternative.

I call those my mean pills. Started first time 6 months ago. Nurse called with 6 months check up blood work.
No changes to stronger pills
Diabetics crap is one low dose aspirin, one mean pill, and two Janumet a day and the blood thinner
I just live with the pain and weakness
No choice in that

Good luck

Now now, don't want to hear that

They are nasty. They made my brother in law sick, caused symptoms like Parkinsons.

Oh, your knife will get blooded sometime this fall. Very nice piece of equipment.

I have the same issue with them. A small % of of the population does not tolerate them. Talk to your MD about Zetia. It's a non statin cholesterol lower med. Science has not confirmed it is as beneficial as statins, but it does lower the numbers without the statin side effects. I take it. CoQ10 is good so stay on that. Diabetes is rough, so do what you need to do on that end. Good luck.

My doc put me on statins a couple of years ago. Right away, my blood sugar went crazy. After about a year of it, I stopped taking it. Within 2 weeks my blood sugar was back to normal. Also a bunch of other [bleep] health problems went away. It took me a bit to realize it: Atavorstatin made me sick.

I've been on atorvastatin for several years. Luckily, I don't have a problem with it.

Told ‘em I wasn’t taken ‘em. That simple.

End of story.

WIfe’s been on Atorvistatin for years.
She’s trying to wean her azz off of it.

Same symptoms here for all of the statins. I quit about 3 years ago.Now only take CQ10 and low dose aspirin.Would like to stop the aspirin because of easy bruising, but I have history of aneurysms in my family

I'll trust my health to my Doctor over an internet forum .

I've been on them since 1999. My dear mother died at 63 from stokes, and heart attracts. I wish the drugs would have been there in time for her.

Statins or going to see Jesus? Jesus, please. (Post double bypass dreams were living death.)

Same same, and also not ded.

I tried a number of different statins, either muscle pain, grumpy, irritability, just couldn't stay on them and live at home! So my doc finally said to take 1800MG of red yeast rice every day. So Is tarted it and in 6 months my LDL was down into an "acceptable" range. Those target values are govt. mandated, so don't think it's for everyone. I've been on RYR now for several years and my cholesterol has stayed managed. By the way, only my LDL shows high, my total cholesterol count is within the "standards".

Red yeast rice at 1800MG means a lot of pills, at least two if you look around. Most pills are 400 or 600 MG, gets expensive. Go on Amazon and by the RYR in bulk, much cheaper, and use a rounded 1/2 teaspoon and you have the 1800 +/-. I mix it with V8 juice, goes down easier.

Forgot to mention, no side effects, at least for me!

Dunno??? Wifeys been in the capable hands of health care professionals for decades.

That's not reassuring.

Damn, good health and luck to all you gentlemen and your ladies.

Seriously look at your diet and research what might be improved.

This plus tart cherries, a handful at night on an empty stomach right before going to bed!

Statins, for a person that has had a heart attack, provide a number of benefits, beyond the obvious ones. As with any pharma product, you should weigh cost be benefit. I take a statin daily. My doctor prescribes it, my two PharmD buddies who monitor all my drug usage agree. I have consulted with numerous close friends with PhD degrees in Pharmacodynamics, medicinal chemistry, and I had a number of years in the pharma industry. For me, there is no evidence of a downside to taking a statin.

I made the same decision on my last doctor visit. Said I was not going to take Atorvistatin anymore.

Ya, that's something I would look forward to. A debilitating heart attack that would leave me unable to walk from the front door to the mailbox without stopping to take a break halfway there. Brightest lightbulb on the Christmas tree you are not...

A Texas A&M graduate?

This ^^^^^^

Operative words here are: For me"

When your joints and muscles ache so bad that you feel like you can't walk around, then it is time to get off them.Some people have no side effects, some do. I am one along with many that do.

This February 6th I had a stroke and a week later a stint put into my 85%-90% blocked carotid artery. Got diagnosed with diabetes at the same time. Metformin doesn't bother me but the Atorvastatin is miserable. Some nights are better than others but damn ! I really don’t feel like I have any better choice so I live with it. The aspirin and plavix aren’t terrible. I don’t have any bruising problem but I’ll bleed for a good while with the slightest nick.

I can’t take it either

But she probably has no problem filling prescriptions.

Been on Lipitor Pro/Atorvastatin since 1994. Just after quad bypass. In my case, A good exercise routine and the statin goes a long way in lowering cholesterol.

Threads like this are always inspiring.

I think I'll go run some hills before dinner.

If i was forty years younger I'd go with you...

My cholesterol used to be borderline. In the good ranges, but close. That along with my family history led my doc to prescribe statins to me. I took them for several years with no side effects. It did lower my levels to the lower end of the spectrum. But reading of possible issues prompted me to talk my Doc into staying off them for a while just to see what happened. I have blood tests done every few months and for the last 2 years my levels stayed pretty low. They went up a bit without them, but were still well within acceptable ranges.

I'm 61 and on my last visit in September he showed me some information. He has some sort of program where he can enter all of my data and it shows I'm at a 12% risk for a heart attack within the next 10 years, which is pretty good. But lowering my cholesterol by just a few more points gets the risk down well under 10%. We compromised, he cut my dosage in half, and I only take it Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I go back in February and we'll see where the levels are then.

I do have a family history and even though no one is overweight both of my parents had heart issues, especially mom. They both took statins, both had heart attacks, both had stents, and eventually pacemakers. But the same doc kept dad alive until 90, mom made it to 88. And my numbers and overall health is better than theirs. Smoking in their earlier years took a tool on them both after about age 80. I've never smoked and have been far more physically active.

I started on them probably 20 years ago. The first couple I tried gave me the muscle aches that are known side effects and Doc finally had me try Crestor...side effects went away and LDL went down over 100 points.

Both my parents had heart problems so I’d be crazy not to take it.

There are more options available now so you don’t have to go without because of side effects.

Did you try pravastatin?

I need to read this but I also had such pain with the first ones about 5 years ago. My PA convinced me to start again I did about 3 weeks ago so far so good

Hank

A lot of people are killed by Doctor's mistakes and oversights.

About a month ago I had a blood test done.


High cholesterol, I think the reading was above 300?


They sent me a letter explaining how I need to schedule an appointment to get on some drugs.

42 years old FWIW.

Excellent advice/response.
Millions of people in the U.S. take statins and only a small percentage have problems with them. They are not expensive, big Pharma doesn't make a whole lot of money on them, and can serve an important part of ones arsenal against cardiovascular disease.

I have taken Simvastatin for 15 yrs. now with no side effects.

Odd response. Odd since at no time did I ask advise from anyone. Personal stories and opinions are just part of normal human conversation.

There is no drug to my knowledge (and knowing a lot about a lot of them was my job) that is not a double edge sword, generally speaking. Too much of any drug (and for some, not much) is a poison.

They are prescribed based on indications from knowledge garnered from R&D, experience, and bias. But you are the consumer and there never has been more accessibility to info on drugs. Read, get different opinions, but ultimately you decide.

I’m not damning drugs at all by not praising them. Some, in many cases are lifesavers, but probably not all most of the time.

I’ll hazard an opinion that in my forty-year career, most are probably over-prescribed. Generally.

I was allergic to Statins. After a heart attack in 2012 and two stints, my doctor put me on Preluent. An epipen type injection in your stomach or leg. My cholestrol went from the 250 range to about 135-140. No more heart blockages. I also have type II diabetes. I've kept it under control by avoiding sweets and carbs as much as possible. Cutting carbs I've lost about 30 or more lbs.

There have been no side effects from Preluent. My doctor said when you are growing and a kid up until about 20 you produce and enzyme that eliminates cholestrol. Then 30 years later you are stopped up. This med is just a reintroduction of the enzyme. So there is no side effects, except maybe an infection from an unclean injection point.

Unless you have good insurance you might have to think about Preluent. It is about $800 a month if you have to pay for it. Medicare does cover it in their drug plan.

My understanding is statins flat work and lower total cholesterol...why feel like ass and lower good cholesterol with statins?

Doctor's have also been prescribing Metformin to lower blood glucose levels, the symptom of diabetes...why are doctors treating the symptom rather than the disease?

I am having difficulty trusting doctors, especially internal medicine.

I’ve been on Pravastatin for 11 years since the
Stroke. No Ill effects.

"I'm given that because of my type 2 diabetes. They say it is to prevent heart disease."

How old are you and do you take insulin shots? Excess insulin in your blood inflames your artery walls and LDL attaches to the damaged areas to protect them. It's just not logical to me that if your LDL level is lower it won't attach to damaged arteries. LDL does exactly what it is supposed to do. Ask your Doc to explain why some people with high cholesterol have cardiovascular disease and some don't. Then ask him where you can find the research that backs up his answer. I don't think there is any research because it might hurt drug sales.

Over 30 years ago (I was 43) my Doc told me I had high cholesterol and prescribed Lipitor. My cholesterol levels stayed EXACTLY the same even after trying several different statins. At the time I was in good shape and very muscular from lifting weights every other day and running 3 eight minutes miles every other day. I couldn't take any of the statin drugs he prescribed because of extreme fatigue, Lipitor was by far the worst.

Today I'm 76 still muscular and healthy while all my friends that are still alive and taking statin drugs are physical wrecks because they just sit on their asses all the time waiting to die. They're inactive because the statin drugs make them tired. They're afraid to stop taking Statin drugs because they believe their Doc knows what's best for them. My eye Doc has a research magazine in his lobby that I read when I go in for an exam twice a year. I read some research on statin drugs w/a daily baby aspirin the conclusions were that there is no benefits from taking them after age 70. The statin drugs are not going to unclog your arteries and a daily baby aspirin increases the chances of a brain bleed (what killed my Father at age 70). I do keep a bottle of full strength aspirin on my night stand in case I suspect I'm having a stroke.

Atorvastatin

Some here don't comprehend the pure fuggin torture that stuff inflicts on some of us.

I don't think my doctor comprehends it.

It ain't a life , just a fuggin miserable existence.


Mike

46, high cholesterol. Everything else is perfect; blood pressure, blood sugar, etc. Atorvastatin kicked my butt. Switched to Rosuvastatin (Crestor) and its not too bad, definitely manageable. Been getting blood tested every three months for two years. I've experimented on my own. Rosuvastatin drives down my cholesterol no matter the diet. I quit taking it and ate a very strict low cholesterol diet, however Cholesterol shot right back up. Got back on it and ate bad intentionally, cholesterol went right back down. In summary, diet doesn't see to effect my cholesterol
and Rosuvastatin drives it down easily. Must be hereditary

Sam,

My wife and I had a hunting trip planned to Africa in 2002. I was 40, she 39. We decided to have physicals and a trust written before we headed out. I felt great, was active (not like working a ranch...) and found my BP at 190/90 IIRC. I had no idea. On meds then, an old school pill and a water pill. When I retired 4 1/2 years ago by medicated BP dropped. When I stopped eating sugar and carbs 6 months ago my BP dipped too low. So I am off the water pill and with another 20 pounds I will likely be off meds. Cholesterol has always been fine.

Pravastatin and rosuvastatin are water soluble. Atorvastatin and simvastatin are fat soluble. In my experience, the water soluable ones are much better tolerated.

The first commercially available statin was Mevacor that was derived from the same fungus that is used to make red yeast rice. RYR is not the best option.

Mine is only 5mg of Crestor, It did take longer for these symptoms to come on, but they did.

I got a stent in my LDA at 44. Fairly important tube!


https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronary-heart-disease
Left main coronary artery (LMCA). The left main coronary artery supplies blood to the left side of the heart muscle (the left ventricle and left atrium). The left main coronary artery divides into branches:

The left anterior descending artery branches off the left coronary artery and supplies blood to the front of the left side of the heart.


Statins keep the bad cholesterol in check. Eat perfectly would help. Over an $80000 trip it was too. Been told genetics contributes strongly.


Anyways, hate to see something controllable, NOT controlled. Get in there.

Shaman and others-thanks for your input here. I've been on Atorvastatin for over four years now and have one heck of a time keeping my blood sugar in check. I'm going to talk to my heart dr. about all this ASAP.

If one wants to lower the bad stuff just eat a 1/4 cup of walnuts a day.

It sounds simple but it works.

One needs to change their lifestyle if they want to change what got them there.

It's been 14 years and the bad things that frightened my Doc are lower than the base line.

It don't taste bad either.

Yep,same thing

If they make muscles hurt it's because they are destroying your muscle tissue. Not good. I rec you talk to your doc about your case and a good pharmacist about it in general.

I wouldnt stay on any which did that.

I had the quad bypass (open heart) at 45....

+2

Tried them all with the same effect of severe muscle pains in the legs and total fatigue most of the time. Live longer with the statins ? and their pain, or shorter by not taking them and having a livable lifestyle. Not a difficult choice for me. GW

Dang.... Good results apparently. Congrats.

I don't remember the details, but my Dr. once explained to me how some folks just can't control their cholesterol through diet. You, and myself, apparently fall under that umbrella.

Stopped taking statins because of the side-effects, which from my reading are an indication that the drug is doing bad stuff to your organs. Went a year without them and as expected my cholesterol went up. Started with Zetia, but the first one put me on the john all day, and the second made my lips start to tingle and feel fat, so no more of that.

About a month ago, I had a couple of incidents of feeling woozy and weak, so ended up in the ER and got a chest x-ray and CAT scan. Nothing there, so went back for my third stress test and carotid check. All clear, despite the big chunks of fat floating around in my bloodstream. Apparently, though no one but me will say so, my symptoms resulted from a pretty hard fall I took going into the woods one morning. I landed on my hands and one knee, but a couple of days later, after the ER fun, my neck and shoulders got pretty stiff. I've been rowing regularly and have had a couple of pretty hard and long deer drags without any symptoms before my tumble, and none since resuming my regular activity after my tests.

I'm trying to alter my diet to get the numbers down, but since I don't have any of the complicating factors (smoking, diabetes) I'm staying off the drugs and taking my chances.

Now, if I can only lose some of this fat........

Been taking Atorvastatin prescribed by Dr. for "slightly" elevated cholesterol for about three months now with none of the previously mentioned negative issues that I've noticed yet.

I’m trying to remember all the cholesterol losing drugs I’ve been on. Pravachol, zetia, Zocor, ezetimibe, Lipitor.
Now on the generic of Lipitor. Heart doc told me there was evidence of Lipitor dissolving plaque in arteries.
Good idea to follow Cardiologist advice. Hasbeen

lots of mushrooms species make statins,

no follow up studies have verified hydrophilic (water loving) vs hydrophobic patient compatibility.

statins them selves-- do not cause the side effects, they only block an enzyme reductase of CoA which is used in many pathways.

its the basic "lack of health" in that pathway that causes the "side effect" (yes i know tell the muscles that are hurting]

these involve both protein and glucose metabolism. which is why metformin is usually given with them. (the insulin resistance goes hand in hand with the inflammation reaction in the arteries,.. Thats what insulin does it imitates an inflammation reaction and why you become immune to your own insulin)

Repath is the only thing that "dissolves" cholesterol plaques, do not confuse the "release of the plaques by a drug such as estradiol etc. and resulting stroke with dissolving"

Take CoQ10. which is low in your body normally, along with pantothenic acid, both are in the pathway affecting the same reductase enzyme --- whether your on statins or not on statins. your low anyway.

in the near future look for some older anti-inflammatory drugs to be re-marketed. one in particular Colchicine, will be introduced shortly and works by stopping the cell division of the proteins causing the inflammation in the arteries. Just as it did in gout.

This is why walnuts work to reduce inflammation, they have a free radical scavenger in them, that also controls Ca levels in plants and animals. (help prevent kidney stones in humans.)

Check out "The Great Cholesterol Myth" on Amazon. Interesting to read some of the comments. I have refused to take statins.

Also, orthos are for skeletal issues, not cardiac ones. That's like taking advice on an electrical problem from a diesel mechanic.

No, that does not stand up....

. That’s why I never trust one source. I have doctors among my friends, and in the family, I know PhDs in a number of fields. I read, study, and discuss. I make informed healthcare decisions. Everyone should do that. N

Things that do stand up

Lovaza , prescription fish oil, Cretin supplements shakes to replace ATP stores for muscle weakness.

side effects on statins a 5 in 10,000

meta analysis of side effects, does not point directly to statins,


Statins save lives.

Not sure why you would want supplements from thyroid deficiencies...

Or did you mean Creatine?

Impossible for statin side effects to be that low. Way too much out there pointing directly at them. Yes, I seriously distrust big pharma.

Undoubtedly. But more and more, it seems that I run into people who must be taking cretin supplement.....

Hello lab coat Etoh, I'm 57 and a lazy cow farmer who wont work out, eat buffalo, elk, axis, venison, beef, wild and store bought pork, fatty chicken and fish, eat 4 to 6 eggs a day, butter and full fat raw cows milk, total cholesterol at last labs 179, genes, or luck? or playing roulette because of semi young age?

Thanks in advance.

yes sorry on spelling


the anti statin internet craze thing has been going on for about 10 years

check with stats from NCBI National Center for Biological Information.

its not Big Pharma, its the public that thinks they are "owed" something. Also something like 5000 heart attacks a year from people who stop their statins.

nothing by me if people want to stop them, just leaves more oxygen around

I would suspect your health is above average simply being a farmer.


As far as the gene thing goes--- in most cases of evolutionary development an advantage in one area, for an organisms "survival" it usually leads to a deficit in another area. Sickle Cell Anemia as an example.

As far as thyroid deficiencies are involved, this is definitely a "first place to start looking" most "salt" today does not contain iodine. and the TSH test is not accurate.

The cramps I get are no fun. Hard to have cramps when you are dead.

Thank You, and good to hear as I've already discovered my deficits, they all reside in the i.q. or lack there of department ; ] so yes, i'll just keep moving, ie, working and playing hard.

"Repath is the only thing that "dissolves" cholesterol plaques"

I always enjoy reading your medical posts. I guess you mean Repatha but as far as I know it just lowers your cholesterol levels. I discussed Repatha with my Cardiologist last year but he didn't say it would actually remove plaque from your arteries. If there is research that says it will I'd like to read it. I probably won't understand a lot the research terminology but I have a friend who will. My SIL bought a bunch of stock last year in a company that a makes drug like Repatha and made a lot of money when he sold it. He sent the me current research findings before he bought it and I didn't see any mention of it dissolving plaque. I think they're still running trails on this drug.

"side effects on statins a 5 in 10,000"

I don't believe the published side effect data of any prescription drugs and especially statin drugs. None of many people I know and have known were ever told about the possible side effects of statin drugs or even what to watch out for. Most of them had side effects but didn't realize statin drugs were causing them. There's too many side effects of statin drugs to list but here's some:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...n-depth/statin-side-effects/art-20046013

Also as far as I know there is no mechanism in place to report and track prescription drug problems to the drug maker or anybody else.

switch to butter

Margarine is the problem

yes that is correct thats why I put it in marks. Its a subcutaneous shot that affects LDLs in the liver, more so than directly chemical attack at cholesterol. Very few things in the body actually dissolve anything and its a word encompassing way to much and not specific enough. the trials have been run and its available, of course depending on ins. etc.


most of the confusion that comes out of cholesterol starts, --- the literature and discussion is keyed towards its effects in the arteries, because that is the location of the emergency, thus lay readers perceive this to be the focus of the efforts to solve the problem, and it is if the surgical part is the defining .

when its actually in the mitochondria in the liver, and the real focus is in the Krebs cycle, use of the "acetyl" part of the molecule. messages here get redirected, and pathways get crossed, sort of speak.

one message error leads to another and soon the hormones are involved. etc.

here is the really technical from the area of biological information theory

the main coders in the genes can be thought of as bit information, which if mapped form a sinusoidal wave in phase by the frequency of repetition of the same purines. this information process follows Shannons entropy laws, and as such can be tricked by using chemicals that change it back to the way it should be.
because of how science fields evolve each of the disciplines have their own names for the "players" only recently have the commonalities been "agreed on" one area that does this is information and coding theory

Basically a prescription drug can have any side effect that is possible.

side effect profile of statins is nothing compared to digitalis and penicillin.

The mechanism is only available to pharmacists and doctors. If the public were allowed it would be so swamped on every drug it would be useless

yes, a large part of it.

"The mechanism is only available to pharmacists and doctors.

That's good to know but a pharmacist has never asked me if I had any side effects from a prescription drug and they won't give your money back if you did. It's just not their problem. The Doc's response when I complained about a drug's side effects has been "Oh well let's (meaning me) try another drug" so it's not his problem either. They always leave it up to the pharmacist to tell you about side effects. If you buy a prescribed drug and suffer harm from it the pharmacy or Doc isn't normally liable for that harm. The drug company may be found liable but they rarely are.

Fact is you don't know what gave you the side effect could have been the garlic with the potatoes.

the plural of anecdotal is not data

Have to admit that was good!

Here you go:

FDA Medwatch

I have submitted some and got a call from the FDA for followup on each one.

Wikipedia is available to everybody

I had three heart attacks, then failed stents, then quadruple bypass in 2012. After that, I was on a fistful of pills twice a day. I started to question whether I needed to take all those pills. I quit taking blood thinners and fired my cardiologist. My new cardiologist told me that he takes bypass patients off thinners after a year. I was on them for six years.

Statins - I took generic Lipitor for years after the bypass surgery. I decided to see if it made any difference, and stopped taking it. My numbers went up, and taking it gave me no noticeable side effects, so I'm back on them and my numbers are down.

My wife gets statin side effects, as do her brother and sister. All three are in good shape, eat carefully, and exercise. None can handle statins. My brother-in-law is a lawyer - now a judge - and his doctor treats him like a peer. He says don't worry about the numbers, you're doing fine.

My wife feels she has to follow the doctor's orders and take the stuff. I told her to tell the doctors to take a hike. She just quit the latest statin as it made her sick, too. Sometimes the bad outweighs the good.

yes and it would be really nice if people read it so there wouldn't be any need for forums like this.

this is a different reporting type of system, mainly a number count, which puts a hash mark in one or more categories

The md one is more specific , type of symptoms, as well as course of action

most states have a poison control center that an individual can report to also.

most of a drugs side effects show up in the clinical trials before the drug is ok by the FDA,

unexpected side effects, as well as the ones that can be predicted by the mechanism of action are taken into account to evaluate the manufacturers "exposure" before going into full release.

"Fact is you don't know what gave you the side effect could have been the garlic with the potatoe"
the plural of anecdotal is not data"

Bullshit! When I say I've had a bad reaction to a prescription drug it's a fact and my Doc has always agreed. I know your kidding but as far as the garlic and potatoes nothing gives me indigestion.

Have you ever had his wife's cooking??

Your doc is always going to agree --goood business practice!

indigestion was one of 100 different things that may be causative. unless you can show some kind of elimination of control factors your testimonials don't mean shhit

Im not in the "medicine" side of this only relating certain information,,, I don't give a [bleep] if you take drugs or not.

1) "most of a drugs side effects show up in the clinical trials before the drug is ok by the FDA,"

A few thousand people participate in clinical trails before a drug is approved by the FDA and after the drug is approved it can be prescribed to many MILLIONS of people. It's hard to get a dangerous drug off the market once the FDA has approved it.

2) "unexpected side effects, as well as the ones that can be predicted by the mechanism of action are taken into account"

Medical double talk? How can you take unexpected (unknown) side effects into account?

3) "MedWatch is the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) program"

I've never heard of this program and don't know anybody who has but from the website: "Your health care provider is NOT required to report to the FDA". Doctors are not going to waste their time reporting drug problems to the FDA because they're to busy with insurance problems. I really feel sorry for today's Doctors.

So, some of us will die sooner than others....

"Your doc is always going to agree --goood business practice!

indigestion was one of 100 different things that may be causative. unless you can show some kind of elimination of control factors your testimonials don't mean shhit

Im not in the "medicine" side of this only relating certain information,,, I don't give a [bleep] if you take drugs or not."

My Doc's seldom agree with me because they want to prescribe drug for every minor ailment. It's usually not that difficult to figure out if your having a bad reaction to something and not just drugs. My testimonials? Eliminating control factors? Do you normally talk like that?

Haha,

no Im retired, just check into 24hr, to see if they have any good gun pictures,


yes and doc hears you say you have a drug reaction he or she is not going to argue with you --- think about it.

drugs get mis prescribed every day, off label uses, over doses, docs are required to report adverse reactions if certain events occur.

again your testimonials are some fact, some inference, some supposition, and some guess . the correlation that you where taking the drug at the same time is just that.

if you show up in an er, with such and such symptoms and reported to have taken so, and so drug it will be treated that way.

report to FDA, "yes sir we are one it"
report check scam to FBI, "yes sir we know about that one"
report drug dealers on street corner "yes sir we've been watching them"


one mans bad reaction is another mans high