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Despite All Legends About The Wild West, Facts Are Cowboys Were Poor Shots, Slinging Lots Of Lead But Hitting Nothing
The wild west gunfighter — was he a real man or a myth?

In this era of TV adult Westerns when gunfire is heard in every living room in the land almost every night after dinner, the cowpoke with a six-shooter has become a legendary figure indeed and his prowess with a Colt Single Action is fabulous. There are some who contend the 1956 lead-slinging sprees on television and in the movies will add up to more shooting than occurred in the bloodiest years of the Wild West. There are old-timers who will dispute it. But in at least one aspect of television shoot-em-up’s there is certainly a large element of accuracy. There’s far more shooting than hitting.

And so it was in the old days, too.

The cowboy with the gun existed as a man, but as far as marksmanship, he was strictly a myth.

I spent three years digging into old records, archives and newspaper accounts to get the facts about cowboy gunmen and their accuracy with weapons. I talked to old-time police, coroners, town marshals as well as undertakers. The results do not bespeak well of the cowboy as a sharpshooter either with rifle or revolver.

The best summary of just how good the average cowboy was given me by the famous old Texas cattleman, Charles Goodnight, who came right out and told me: “He couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn! I’ve known hundreds of the best and worst cowpunchers in the business, and the number of real working cowboys who could hit a man at 50 ft. with a .44 or .45 you could count on your fingers and toes! But most of them were pretty fair shots with a rifle — and some were damn good!

“The best shots in the cow country certainly were not the cowboys — they were the ones who usually got shot! It was the professional gunslingers who spent their time learning to draw fast and shoot straight while the honest cowpoke was busy branding, driving up the drags, repairing fences or busting steers out of the brush.

“If there was a gunfight in town in which someone was badly hurt or killed, you could almost bet there was a professional gunman involved, a lawman, gambler or one of the outlaws who found safety on the frontier.”

Best gunmen in the Wild West were usually sheriffs. Typical of good gunfighters were Wyatt Earp
(left) and John Slaughter (center), who brought law to Tombstone in its bloody days, and Pat Garrett
(right), who shot Billy the Kid, ending the manhunt.
Equally positive on this score was Jim Shaw, who came up the Texas trail in 1879, and became so successful he was later elected president of the Wyoming Stock Growers Association. “I’ve been in every cowtown on the Chisholm, Dodge, and Northern Trails, punched cows with some of the meanest men in the business, and had my share of gun brawls. I only knew a half dozen real cowboys who were experts with revolvers. Some outlaws and gunmen turned cowboys when necessity or a sheriff breathing down their necks demanded a change of occupation. A few cowboys turned gunmen — after all, no one ever got rich on $30 a month! But by and large few cowboys were ever good shots with handguns. My brother could put five out of six bullets into a playing card at 50 ft., but I’ve seen him miss completely against a live target at 25!”

What about Wes Hardin, Billy the Kid, Jesse James, the Youngers, Clay Allison, Frank Reno and all the rest who lived in the cow country during the ’70s and ’80s?

“Well,” continued the keen-minded cattleman, “whatever else they were, they weren’t cowboys even if they did ride horseback and occasionally join a range crew. Most of those killers thought a working cowboy was a fool — too dumb to turn to something less difficult and more profitable.”

“After all,” commented Fred G.S. Hesse, famed Wyoming cowman and a pretty good shot himself with a sixgun, “everyone had to ride a horse in those days, but everyone who rode horses or punched cows wasn’t a cowboy! And everyone who carried a gun wasn’t an expert gunman!”

Boot Hill Cemetery is one of Tombstone’s big tourist attractions with markers for
lead-poisoning victims but actually there was far more shooting than victims.
Many cowboys never owned a gun or carried one, according to Charles F. Sprague, noted Texas and New Mexico cattleman before the turn of the century. There were few double-action or self-cocking pistols on the range and few cowboys used them. Billy the Kid — William H. Bonney, legally — used a Colt .41 double action and by constant practice became a dead shot with the weapon. Billy at 23 years of age had killed 23 men, but he could hardly be classified as a cowboy even though he did punch cows for a time with Sheriff Cape Willingham on the LX Ranch in ’78.

Willingham, incidentally, soon left the unprofitable ranks of the cowmen and became a famous peace officer and a top-notch marksman. He maintained he had little to fear from a working cowboy, and though he almost lost his life in a gunbattle with five of them, the incident does bear out the contention the cowboys were pretty poor shots. It happened in old Tascosa. Cape got into an argument with five cowboys on the main street. When the smoke cleared, four cowboys were dead or dying, the other was permanently crippled and Sheriff Willingham was badly wounded. He recovered and later reiterated, “Generally speaking, cowboys are lousy shots.”


Hollywood credits gunmen with far more speed with a gun than possible. Here star
Robert Mitchum incorrectly fans a gun in “The Trouble Shooter.”
Actually, I wondered, how many cowboys carried guns? “Depends on when you mean,” Cattleman Goodnight answered. “In the late ’60s and early ’70s in Texas, most cowboys did and had to. It was a period of chaos in the West and on the trails. Indian raids, rustlers, crooks and land jumpers, even farmers in Missouri and Kansas, banded to rob the trail herders. It was a matter of protection in a period in which there was very little law except what a man could enforce himself. Even then few cowboys became very good with a revolver. Many preferred to ride with rifles and shotguns. The physical presence of side arms, however, made for trouble. The revolver was an ‘equalizer’ between the big man and the small one, between the physical coward and the brave, reckless and even bully types. Gun battles were quite common in the raw cow camps and frontier towns as a result.”

But even in the ’70s, according to Goodnight and other authorities, ranch owners, foremen and trail bosses forbid the carrying of firearms on the ranges, roundups and on the trail. Goodnight forced his riders to stow their guns in their gear in the chuckwagon. Texas Rancher John Adair as well as the Matador outfit made their riders sign agreements not to carry guns while on the job and violators were fired on the spot. The XIT Ranch enforced the ban and discharged any man who was caught with a gun on the ranch or at work unless he was specifically ordered to carry a weapon.

Pistols used by gunfighters in actually killing many victims are Colt .45 #I26680 (top right) t
aken from outlaw John Wesley Hardin (above left) by Sheriff John Selman at El Paso in 1895.
Colt .44 (bottom right) was taken from Billy the Kid by Sheriff Pat Garrett at Stinking Springs.
Cylinder #0361 gun was in late cowboy movie star William S. Hart’s collection.
Actually, according to Governor Granville Stuart of Montana, who was not only a good man with a gun, but hired many who were, “Not more than 10 out of 100 cowboys
owned a revolver in the ’80s in Wyoming and Montana, although most of them had a rifle.”

With thousands of cowboys from Texas to Montana and the cattle industry spreading everywhere on vast public ranges, disturbances were to be expected. But the record shows despite the exuberance of ranch riders one marshal and a brace of deputies could usually keep the peace in a cowtown that was one solid line of saloons, honkytonks and bawdy houses. Of course, such marshals or sheriffs included fast-draw artists like Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson, Wild Bill Hickok, Heck Thomas, Bud Ledbetter, Chris Madsen and Bill Tilghman, to name but a few of the better-known.

The cowboy didn’t fare too well in his gunbattles in the cowtowns off the range trade and trail traffic. Even when he did a lot of shooting, he did very little hitting. Examples are legion, but one of the best is R.J. Jennings’ eyewitness description of the free-for-all in Tom Shurman’s Bar in Dodge City in 1881. Two trail outfits, each with 3,000 head of long horns, arrived at Dodge on the same day and camped on the grasslands surrounding the clapboard town. Three months on the monotonous trail had left both crews irritable, dry and ready for a toot. Both hit the saloons at the same time. Some 40 crowded into Shurman’s and bar whiskey flowed like water. Within a few minutes some of the boys were carrying quite a head of steam.

One thing led to another and suddenly an M Bar rider began to pistol whip a cowboy from the Texas City outfit. This sport quickly ended when one of the friends of the latter whipped out his sixgun and took a shot at the M Bar cowboy. Guns flashed out of holsters and the din, according to Jennings, sounded like a replay of the Battle of Shiloh. More than a hundred shots were fired before the room was cleared — by way of both the back as well as front doors. When the mess was surveyed, the results were astonishing.

Not one rider had been killed or wounded! A cat sitting near the piano had forfeited even its ninth life, and there wasn’t a fixture or mirror left intact in the whole place. The managers of both outfits split the bill the next morning to avoid a mass arrest of their crews.



Even gunwomen are glorified by movies. Yvonne DeCarlo as Calamity Jane is
a far cry from the real Black Hills prostitute.
An even more dramatic example of wasting good ammunition occurred in Frisco, New Mexico, in 1884. A young Mexican rider newly graduated from a mail-order detective training course, and proud of his badge sent him by the school, rode into the western New Mexico cowtown just as a Texas cowboy from the Slaughter outfit began to celebrate by shooting up the town. This was a common use for the cowboys’ sixguns during the period and was a familiar sport from the Gulf to Northern Montana and from Dakota Territory to the Sierra Madres. It simply consisted of getting well lathered with “rot gut” whiskey, and then striding or riding up the main street of town taking pot shots at signs, lamps, windows and locals.

The youthful horseman was named Elfego Baca and his visit was occasioned by the fact his girl had recently moved to the town from Socorro. Baca asked the New Mexican justice of the peace why he didn’t stop the cowboy from terrorizing the natives. “Don’t be a fool,” replied official. “If I interfere he’ll have all 80 of the Slaughter cowboys up here in an hour. They’ll release him and then tear this town apart. They don’t like Mexicanos!”

Baca thought the reasoning silly and said so, “You can’t convince those Texans to respect us or any other Mexicanos by letting them walk all over you. I’ll arrest that drunk.”

He did — without any resistance from the celebrant whatsoever. But the justice of the peace was too frightened to try the man. “I’ll not bring the Texans down on us.”

“Then,” Baca announced, “I’ll take my prisoner to the county seat at Socorro.” He took the subdued cowboy to the hotel and both put up for the night. Within a few minutes, however, the Slaughter foreman, Perry Perham, and seven cowboys rode up and demanded the prisoner. Baca calmly refused Perham, still mounted, and began an abusive tirade casting aspersions on Elfego’s forebears. Without raising his voice, the mail-order deputy just commented, “I’m going to count to three and you’ve just that long to get out of town.”

Perham paid no attention but launched into another threatening speech. Baca ignored it and began his count. “One. Two. Three!” At the end of his count both sixguns appeared in his hands as though by magic. Before the astounded Slaughter riders could recover and retreat, their foreman lay dead in the street, crushed by his horse. Three others were down. The rest left the plaza in a rush. Then the trouble really started.

During the night the Slaughter riders rode to every American ranch in the vicinity charging the Frisco natives were bent on wiping out all the “Americanos.” When some of the ranchers investigated during the early morning hours, they found everything peaceful. A hurried conference with the justice of the peace and Baca led to an agreement to try the Slaughter cowboy for disturbing the peace — a minor infraction — fine him and end what threatened to turn into a race war.

But the letting of Slaughter blood had to be avenged. Just as Baca turned his prisoner over to the justice, in rode the entire Texas crew — all 80 of them according to court testimony and uncontested eyewitness accounts. They cared nothing about their unforunate companion. They wanted Baca … and they wanted him either stretching a rope or well ventilated with Texas lead. Even in the face of the whole crew, however, the 19-year-old Mexican refused to back down. When one of the Texans fired, he drew and covered the acting foreman and several others immediately in front of him. Sliding up an alley adjoining the building he took refuge in an adobe hut in a small clearing.

Then started a 33-hour siege by over 80 men. During the night a dynamite charge blew down part of the building on top of Elfego Baca, but dawn saw a thin trickle of smoke curling from the chimney. Despite the nightlong siege he was cooking breakfast!

The Texans went berserk and poured volley after volley into the 12 by 20 foot dirt building. Another part of the wall collapsed pinning the deputy to the floor for two hours, but no one had the nerve to crawl up and investigate. During the siege more than 4,000 shots were fired. The door was riddled with 397 holes alone. Baca had gone into the hut with less than 40 cartridges. He had killed four men and wounded six others, but was untouched himself!

Although they could have easily rushed the hut and put an end to the battle — at some cost to themselves — the Texans remained prudent. Baca dictated his own surrender terms. At his trial in Socorro he was vindicated and freed — a mail-order deputy who was a dead shot, one of the fastest men on the draw in the West and subsequently one of the most effective peace officers in New Mexico and on the border. But 80 cowboys from Texas couldn’t outgun him — 4,000 cartridges to less than 40!



From the January 1956 issue of GUNS Magazine.
Other examples of mass shooting without much result can be cited in almost every cattle state. A Texas City, Texas, battle between cowboys resulted in more than 300 shots fired. Only one man was wounded in the arm and two horses killed.

A cowboy battle in the Basin country in Wyoming lasted two days. One rider was badly wounded after at least a hundred shots had been fired at a distance varying from 50 feet to 50 yards. Twenty-three men were involved.

Charley Siringo, famed cowboy detective, once told his boss, “You can’t tell a gunman by the fact he wears a gun. Out here it is part of a cowboy’s full dress. His gun is to a youthful cowboy what a sword was to a young knight — an impressive sign of his fearless manhood and readiness to fight. But it doesn’t make him a gunslinger!”

Cattleman and ranch owners in trouble knew better than to depend on the guns of their regular ranch crews. They were willing enough in many instances, but a pugnacious attitude doesn’t make marksmen. Professional gunslingers — rangers, marshals, ex-peace officers, or just hired gun experts filled the bill in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, Wyoming, Montana and Nevada. In the 1892 Johnson County War — or Invasion — the Wyoming cattle “barons” found it advisable to employ professional gunmen from Texas to clean up a rustler gang composed, they charged, largely of former cowboys from their own ranches. When the invasion failed and the cattlemen and their 40-odd Texas gunmen were besieged at the TA ranch by more than 200 cowboys and their friends, several thousand shots were exchanged. The U.S. Cavalry finally rescued the invaders, but during the entire fighting at the TA not one man was killed and only two wounded!

There were, of course, many good shots among the tens of thousands of cowboys who rode the open ranges. Just as they valued a well-rigged saddle, a black Stetson or a fine horse, most cowboys who owned a gun put great store by it, not because it was essential to their way of life, but because it was a symbol of their occupation. Many spent long hours cleaning and practicing with their guns.

The handgun became a trade item, with a large secondhand market. Guns were expensive, which probably explains why many cowboys never owned one. But once having acquired such a weapon, a cowboy was likely to treat it as a cherished possession. When the newness wore off, it was an object of value that could be hocked for $10, and scores of loan sharks did a land office business in loaning money to the cowboys.

There was a ready market for weapons lost by failure to reclaim or to pay the debt. Profits from the business ran as high as 300 percent! According to one Montana loan shark, “I’d rather take a loan on a pair of sixshooters than on a steer!”

In searching for a murder weapon in Dakota in 1887, Deputy United States Marshal Timothy Tooms reported, “While a cowboy values his gun and keeps it clean, it is surprising how many are in poor shooting condition. I’ve seen men wearing guns in such condition one pulling the trigger is more in danger of blowing his own head off than his quarry. The truth is in many instances I am more afraid of being next to a man shooting than I would be if I were some feet in front of him. Most cowboys are very slow in drawing and unless they can take plenty of time to sight their weapons have little chance of hitting even a stationary target."

The plain fact is cowboys as a group were generally poor shots. Many were young boys of 17, 18 and 19, who, like youngsters today of more tender age, liked to play
grownup and packed a gun as their fathers’ had done in the years following the Civil War. Some of the gun battles were fantastic — even by today’s TV standard — where hundreds of shots will be fired in a 30-minute Western film and only the villain and maybe one or two of his henchmen will be shot. Alas, it is all too true . . . they couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn!*
Tom Horn would take exception to this article. whistle
JD Clampett did alright
Somewhere around here I have a book with a picture of "a working cowboy's rig", a single-action Colt in a holster. The Colt has no trigger and is described as being either fanned or thumbed - neither of which sounds like a real aid to accuracy.
I bet that if they had had an internet back then, the accuracy of the individual cowboy would have increased exponentially.
Cowboys maybe, but, the Sharps rifle Buffalo hunters and Hawken rifle Mountain Men would smoke your ass!
Why would anyone think a cowboy who spent all his days working cows would be proficient with handguns? Most full time ACTUAL cowboys carried side arms to shoot a horse that he has been hung up on and being drug,or one with a broken leg, or the occasional cow that had to be put down,o r similar reason. All the remainders were a cowboy in name only. Sort of like today
That Elfego Baca fella seemed like someone not to mess with. Fugger wouldn't back down from no one. At 19 to boot!
Pretty good article!

Yeah, there was a huge difference in a cowboy and a gunfighter.

Some of the better gunfighters purely hated cowboys.
I don't think they were paid enough to be able to afford practice ammo.
Originally Posted by saddlesore
... All the remainders were a cowboy in name only. Sort of like today


Wonder if they were still allowed to wear the hat.
Does this mean that all those western movies where the hero shoots an Injun off his horse, at 500 yards, with a six shooter, was hokey?
Don’t any of you geezers (me included) remember the Baca episode on Disney’s wonderful world of color???




Btw, his stompin’ grounds just south of Armijo Spgs where we all used to meet!
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Why would anyone think a cowboy who spent all his days working cows would be proficient with handguns? Most full time ACTUAL cowboys carried side arms to shoot a horse that he has been hung up on and being drug,or one with a broken leg, or the occasional cow that had to be put down,o r similar reason. All the remainders were a cowboy in name only. Sort of like today


Similarly, today, most folks in LE can't shoot worth a darn. The departments rarely dole out more ammo than is needed for qualifying. Most I know in LE rarely shoot on their own except immediately preceding their qualifications. There are exceptions of course.
Originally Posted by z1r
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Why would anyone think a cowboy who spent all his days working cows would be proficient with handguns? Most full time ACTUAL cowboys carried side arms to shoot a horse that he has been hung up on and being drug,or one with a broken leg, or the occasional cow that had to be put down,o r similar reason. All the remainders were a cowboy in name only. Sort of like today


Similarly, today, most folks in LE can't shoot worth a darn. The departments rarely dole out more ammo than is needed for qualifying. Most I know in LE rarely shoot on their own except immediately preceding their qualifications. There are exceptions of course.



It's a bit better now than is used to be.

Departments are spending more time and resources on firearms training and shoot-don't-shoot training.

Liability of a cop that can't shoot proficiently is too high now.
I've read that if a cowboy could even afford a revolver, then he usually couldn't afford to buy enough ammo to be proficient with it. Ammo was expensive on a cowboy salary and was fired only when really needed. Sort of like having a fire extinguisher around. You hope you don't need it but when you do it's quite handy.
Originally Posted by Huntz
Tom Horn would take exception to this article. whistle

As would Elmer Keith and Brian Pierce, more modern cowboys.
Originally Posted by 22250rem
I've read that if a cowboy could even afford a revolver, then he usually couldn't afford to buy enough ammo to be proficient with it. Ammo was expensive on a cowboy salary and was fired only when really needed. Sort of like having a fire extinguisher around. You hope you don't need it but when you do it's quite handy.



Most general stores would sell ammo by the round.

Cowboy walks in an replaces the two rounds he fired at a coyote with 2 fresh ones.... smile
Originally Posted by gunner500
Cowboys maybe, but, the Sharps rifle Buffalo hunters and Hawken rifle Mountain Men would smoke your ass!


Yeah, at long range, too. Try taking squirrels heads off with the delay of a flintlock.
Originally Posted by rockinbbar
Originally Posted by 22250rem
I've read that if a cowboy could even afford a revolver, then he usually couldn't afford to buy enough ammo to be proficient with it. Ammo was expensive on a cowboy salary and was fired only when really needed. Sort of like having a fire extinguisher around. You hope you don't need it but when you do it's quite handy.



Most general stores would sell ammo by the round.

Cowboy walks in an replaces the two rounds he fired at a coyote with 2 fresh ones.... smile



When I was a kid, the stores that sold ammo always kept what they called "broken boxes," which was a box of shells out of which you could buy only what you wanted.

When deer first began to show up here, I remember buying 3 rounds of 20 gauge slugs "just in case."
Originally Posted by rockinbbar
Originally Posted by 22250rem
I've read that if a cowboy could even afford a revolver, then he usually couldn't afford to buy enough ammo to be proficient with it. Ammo was expensive on a cowboy salary and was fired only when really needed. Sort of like having a fire extinguisher around. You hope you don't need it but when you do it's quite handy.



Most general stores would sell ammo by the round.

Cowboy walks in an replaces the two rounds he fired at a coyote with 2 fresh ones.... smile



I bought ammo that way as a kid. 6 or 7 shotgun shells at a time. Missing was a crime. If you missed you tried like hell to let 2 play and get both in one shot.

I remember, as a kid, the men remarking about the boy who lived out at the Tolbert place taking 8 shells one day and missing with one shot. He still came home from Piney Creek bottom with 7 squirrels and a buck.
Bob Munden could fan ones ass.

How accurate were the guns back then. With black powder, the barrels were probably shot before long.
Pretty interesting article. Thanks for posting.
Just a couple random thoughts while reading...
Handguns require a fairly large amount of practice to be any good. Stands to reason a guy who doesn’t make much money and has little interest in guns, ain’t gonna put the effort into it.
Rifles are easier to use, and it seems to me defense (military style) are easier to use. Probably why a lot of folks in government would like to get them away from citizens!
Quote
Fast is fine, but accuracy is final.
Wyatt Earp
7mm
Originally Posted by 5sdad
Somewhere around here I have a book with a picture of "a working cowboy's rig", a single-action Colt in a holster. The Colt has no trigger and is described as being either fanned or thumbed - neither of which sounds like a real aid to accuracy.



on the contrary , a man running slip gun was more than likely a pistolero and not a common cowpuncher


Elmer Keith experimented extensively with slip guns
Originally Posted by sdgunslinger
Originally Posted by 5sdad
Somewhere around here I have a book with a picture of "a working cowboy's rig", a single-action Colt in a holster. The Colt has no trigger and is described as being either fanned or thumbed - neither of which sounds like a real aid to accuracy.



on the contrary , a man running slip gun was more than likely a pistolero and not a common cowpuncher


Elmer Keith experimented extensively with slip guns



I doubt "fanning" was ever used in an old west gunfight.

Fanning was a figment of some Hollywood movie maker's imagination.

Just like buscadero tie down gun rigs were.

And fast drawing... especially as a contest. May have happened once. But even that is in doubt.


Lots of Hollywood misconception...
I think we are on the same page here Rock , but fanning is not the same as slip shooting a single action


Id agree that fanning is pretty crude for most folks, but Ed McGivern also experimented with that technique and I guess acheived some success
I knew of two fellows who mishandled a fast draw, one with a .22, the other with a .41 magnum. Both managed to shoot themselves in (and through) the thigh without hitting bone.
yup , a friend of mine shot himself in the leg when he was a kid practicing his fast draw out in the pasture

he came pretty close to bleeding out before he got back to the house
I read an article a long time ago about to poor marksmanship of the average Infantry soldier, and how, as the population gets more urbanized, and the average youngster spends less time around firearms, the more the marksmanship suffers.
Not that it takes a rocket scientist to figure it out, but the story was illustrated by the number of rounds fired per enemy dead, through American wars from the ACW to Vietnam.
During the War Between the States, ordinance officers estimated that “it takes a man’s weight in lead to kill one soldier”. It’s a guesstimate on my part, but figuring that a .58 rifled musket ball weighs about an ounce, and the average Civil War soldier weighed about #170, it comes out to over 2700 rounds to kill one enemy soldier, discounting artillery and blades.
The article went on to say that figuring the casualties in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam, versus the ammo expenditure, it’s getting progressively worse. Of course this would stand to reason as automatic weapons on the battlefield become more prevalent.
It was interesting reading, and I wish I could remember where it was that I read it.
7mm
It wasn't just the cowboys....... A interesting discussion concerning some data from Vietnam.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/did-i-hear-this-correctly-on-mail-call.40370/
Each member of the Texas Rangers was given six rounds of ammo per month to practice with.
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Each member of the Texas Rangers was given six rounds of ammo per month to practice with.



They practiced on Comanche and outlaws quite a bit though. wink
That was an interesting article. Herbert McBride in "A Rifleman Went To War" states that some of the old west lawmen he quizzed when he was young said that the most successful killers were cool shots that would take their time and aim their shots. He also said that lots of gunfights ended with no one being shot. I believe it. Those single six shooters aren't the easiest to hit with, for me at least. I'm sure there are those here that are good shots with them.
i know my family dates back to at least the 1890's in arizona, and were also active in the cattlebusiness. My father for sure knew a lot of the early cattlemen, other than family , and for that matter the lawmen.
He once told me you would have to be stupid to be matt dillon, in gunsmoke, on the main street.
His comment was the weapon of choice was a shotgun or rifle, from ambush.
now as to a handgun, i own his, it has quite a history including a killing on whiskey row, a colt saa bisley in 38wcf.
the interesting part is the scabbard, where leather has been removed around the trigger/trigger guard area for quicker access.
It' quite surprising how fast you can draw and fire a colt from a belly gun position.
having said that i doubt if most cattlemen had much use of them, where a rifle they did.
i am not a gunman, but it is not issue to draw and fire a colt and hit a pop can out to about 20yards or so.
only disatvantage is slow to reload.
Originally Posted by BayouRover
It wasn't just the cowboys....... A interesting discussion concerning some data from Vietnam.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/did-i-hear-this-correctly-on-mail-call.40370/

200,000 per kill in Vietnam. Sounds about right. I’m pretty sure if you were to do the homework on WW2, it’s be somewhere in between.
Now, considering the survival rate of wounded continues to grow as more medical treatments become available, and the extra number of automatic rifles per platoon as weapons progress, the kill ratio is bound to change as well. The tactics have changed as increased firepower becomes available as well.
I would still think it’d ultimately be cheaper for the military to spend more on marksmanship training for soldiers, but they’re studying individual weapons that are easier to score hits with as well.
I went through basic training in 1985. Being a country boy, I was really surprised at the number of trainees who had never fired a weapon in their lives. Some of them had a rough time getting on to it, and as I said the AR platform is pretty easy to shoot well.
I didn’t mean to hi-Jack the thread, but I thought the information was pertinent to the original post.
7mm
Years and years ago, I read an article that came up with a figure on what it cost to kill an enemy combatant in WWII. I no longer remember the figure, but at the time I thought that it would have made things a lot easier if they could have just bought off each of them for that amount.
I had always been told not only by by grandparents but by numerous old ranchers that I had known and some I worked for, that if you packed a six-gun you was either a law officer or up to no good. Handguns were just not a part of their raisin’.

Mom told me about an old drunkard cowboy in her home town that woke up one night and thought someone was looking at him from the foot of his bed. So he shot at ‘em. Blew off his big toe. Was his foot he saw. Another time he rode his horse into his house one evening and started shootin’ up thru the ceiling. Like in the movies. Ended up shootin’ and killin’ one of his own kids. This was in the early 30’s.
When I went through basic in '70, the game was to fire as many times as possible, accuracy be damned.
Most of us here are gun enthusiast, which usually means we’re decent shots, and we know how to use them effectively and safely. You can nearly always tell someone who hasn’t had sufficient training by the placement of their index finger when they’re handling a gun. Dead giveaway when that boogerhook is in the trigger guard. Saw this constantly in the service, still makes me shake my head. crazy Even most of the NCOs let it slide.
I said in a previous post about the reason most cow towns and boom towns passed ordinances against carrying guns in town.
Cowboys and miners often would get a hooker and then get stinking drunk on payday. Drunken idiots and firearms are definitely a mixture to be avoided.
I’m no cowboy, but I could see a quite few incidents where a SAA or such would be a very handy thing to have around on open range. This is the first I e heard of trailbosses forbidding trail hands from carrying, but depending on situations I could understand it.
7mm
Reading comments on this provokes a few thoughts. I doubt anyone knows the ratio of shots to kills on the battle field, regardless of which war we are talking about. Stuff happens, equipment and tactics change. Case in point is found in the introduction of automatic and semi-automatic weapons on the battlefield. One of the advantages our troops had in WW2 was the Garand which was deployed against enemies using bolt action guns. Enemy forces spent more time ducking than our lads did, and died far more frequently.

Vietnam came along and brought with it the reintroduction of the Gatling style guns, using both small arms ammo and cannon ammo. To correct a misconception earlier, the USAF and USMC miniguns fired 6K rounds per minute to the best of my knowledge and the Army guns had selective fire at 2K and 4K rpm. We rarely used the 2K option as it tended to jam the feeder delinker fairly often. Mentioned tactics earlier, and to illustrate that we often did "recon by fire" with the choppers, sole purpose being to provoke the enemy into returning fire. It worked fairly well and we always had them outgunned. How many did we kill? Nobody really knows and that is a hard fact. I shot a lot of ammo over there and most days don't know that I killed anyone. OTOH, I zipped 3 with one pull of the trigger one day, that with a 20 round mag. Had a door gunner that was a bit of a sniper with the M60 that nailed a dozen with less than 50 rounds. So what's the ratio? WGAF? You divide all the known enemy casualties by all the rounds manufactured, differentiate those killed by small arms fire from those splattered by HE or nape delivered in all manner of forms, and on the best of days you're guessing about the whole thing.

As too cowboys not being good shots in general, I see nothing unexpected in that judgement and despite the lack of spurs and saddles, the average gun owner these days can't shoot worth a damn. I've been seeing that truth for the last 40 years of so at various ranges and afield from Georgia to the Florida Keys. I see youngsters with ARs that can't hit the paper at 50 yards with monotonous regularity. Some are so profoundly ignorant about every aspect it is fairly easy to intervene and put a smile on their mug. Show them how to get the gun on target, how to hold it, squeeze it and so forth. They discover that Hollywood really is a load of buffalo chips. I see oldsters with the same ignorance as well, albeit much more rarely.

Precision shooting is not instinctive, most if not all of you wankers know that. If you run across a dummy that will let you help them out, do that and perhaps you'll both feel better for the ride home.
Good writer! He uses magnet words and hot button assertions to makes an interesting article out of totally mundane and boringly normal information.

Had he written that the average gun owner is not a great shot, who would read it? laugh Make it cowboys and quote some famous historical figures and this article flies well, even though the quotations merely repeat the obvious. The anecdotes are fun to read.

But sluiced throughout are words and phrases like: “average”... “generally speaking”..."by and large”... “few”...”many good shots among tens of thousands of cowboys.”

So most cowboys were not great shots but a few of them were. Wow. whistle
I believe part of the myth of the fast draw duel in the street (did this begin with the "Dime Novels" and "Penny Dreadfuls" of the 1870's?) owes its origin to the very real ritual of dueling and how widespread it had been a generation earlier.

Sometimes when reading early Texas History it seems we lost about as many guys to them offing each other in duels as we did to the Indians.

Earlier than that, the famous Andrew Jackson vs Charles Dickinson duel, 1806. By that point Charles Dickinson, age 26, is reputed to have killed TWENTY SIX men in formal duels. He would badger his victims into challenging him so, as the challenged party, getting to choose the weapons; his own .70 cal pistols. He was a fast and precise shot who always shot his opponent in the heart, dropping him instantly.

After being obliged by Dickinson's public comments to challenge him to a duel, Jackson faced a dilemma, he knew he was neither faster nor more accurate than Dickinson. Travelling 300 miles to fight the duel in Kentucky (where it was still legal), Dickinson, a sort of dark celebrity, was giving shooting demonstrations to crowds of spectators.

This is when Jackson came up with the subterfuge of wearing an over-sized coat and contorting his body inside it to move his heart a precious couple of inches away from where Dickinson would expect it to be. It worked; Dickinson's .70 cal ball barely missed Jackson's heart tho he carried it painfully the rest of his life. If Jackson really did cheat by recocking his pistol after a misfire, perhaps he can be forgiven for that in as much as for all Jackson knew at that moment he was going to die too.

Anyhow Charles Dickinson a 26 year old psychopath and bully who had killed a man for every year of his age, a dead shot and a fast one. Fits the gunfighter myth perfectly but 70 years too soon.
Cheyenne fires off the top of the holster as soon as it's clear. Tell me the last time you saw him miss. Rex Applegate's Army students use Dan Troop's quick crouch. Dillon isn't the quickest, but keeps a cool head and hits center. And Hoppy, he waits 'till he knows the play and then just chops them down right and left.

You guys read too many articles. There's always someone around trying to make you forget what you know.
Had a meeting and lunch today with an old friend who was a surgeon in a small town hospital in western Nebraska. The topic of guns came up and he mentioned that he’d had conversations with some of the trauma surgeons in Omaha - for some reason both of the trauma centers here in town are located in the rougher areas - he told me the local trauma surgeons were concerned about dealing with gunshot wounds. When the local Drs asked him about his advice he answered that he’d really never had much experience with such things. He said that most of the gunshot victims he’d seen were DOA. He said the folks in his area knew how to use guns and had guns of adequate size to resolve the matter quickly. When a shooting victim arrived at the ER they were beyond any help he could provide.
You guys who are competent with a pistol - how many rounds have you shot in practice? How many hours have you spent shooting? How good are the sights on your guns? Very few REAL cowboys had the time or the money to shoot enough to get good. Many carried a gun with very little idea about how to use it. Their job was cattle, not gun fighting.
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
You guys who are competent with a pistol - how many rounds have you shot in practice? How many hours have you spent shooting? How good are the sights on your guns? Very few REAL cowboys had the time or the money to shoot enough to get good. Many carried a gun with very little idea about how to use it. Their job was cattle, not gun fighting.


PREZACTLY!

The cowhands didn’t have local IDPA Matches to shoot or compete in like we do. Or SASS Cowboy Matches. 🤠
John Slaughter was pretty good. He was a stone killer I think. He had an SAA, a Henry rifle and a winchester lever action shotgun (for hunting AND law-enforcement).

Jeff Milton was a good shot, but not a cowboy.
IIRC, Tom Horn wasnt a pistolero - he did his kiliLng with a rifle. That disqulAifies him as a 'GUNMAN" -of the short variety, anyway.
not all. Elmer Keith was a cowboy. Some of the deadliest of the law men had punched cows at one time, too. Ammo, other than .22lr, was too expensive for anyone who did not cast bullets and reload, and nobody had brains enough to use any sort of ear protection. You wont see anyone doing El presidente's worth a hoot without ear protection, today, either.
Originally Posted by chlinstructor
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
You guys who are competent with a pistol - how many rounds have you shot in practice? How many hours have you spent shooting? How good are the sights on your guns? Very few REAL cowboys had the time or the money to shoot enough to get good. Many carried a gun with very little idea about how to use it. Their job was cattle, not gun fighting.


PREZACTLY!

The cowhands didn’t have local IDPA Matches to shoot or compete in like we do. Or SASS Cowboy Matches. 🤠



Yeah. Gun hands and Cattle hands.
"Print the legend".
you can learn a lot from dryfire, IF you have the self discipline. You can learn a lot more with airsoft and .177 pellets, too. But all of that is still sadly lacking in 90+ % of shooters today and was non-existent in cowboy days. Btw, it's a crock that shooting is a "perishable skill". Once you get truly good, you can go for decades without touching a gun and still beat 90% of shooters. If you can dryfire, use airsoft and .177, and fire 500 rds a year each thru rifle and pistol, you'll still be able to beat 99%. I know this for a personal fact.
Originally Posted by satir
you can learn a lot from dryfire, IF you have the self discipline. You can learn a lot more with airsoft and .177 pellets, too. But all of that is still sadly lacking in 90+ % of shooters today and was non-existent in cowboy days. Btw, it's a crock that shooting is a "perishable skill". Once you get truly good, you can go for decades without touching a gun and still beat 90% of shooters. If you can dryfire, use airsoft and .177, and fire 500 rds a year each thru rifle and pistol, you'll still be able to beat 99%. I know this for a personal fact.

I agree with this.
I'm thinking Elmer Keith was a pretty good shot.
At the OK Corral, about 30 shots were fired, 2 men were killed and 3 wounded IIRC. They were as close as 6' apart. That's a lot of lead in a very tight spot yet only 2 died. That's not the best shooting I've ever heard of.
No mention of all the surplus cap and ball, rifle muskets, muzzle loaders. A lot of us are happily using guns 50 to 100 years old.
Originally Posted by z1r
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Why would anyone think a cowboy who spent all his days working cows would be proficient with handguns? Most full time ACTUAL cowboys carried side arms to shoot a horse that he has been hung up on and being drug,or one with a broken leg, or the occasional cow that had to be put down,o r similar reason. All the remainders were a cowboy in name only. Sort of like today


Similarly, today, most folks in LE can't shoot worth a darn. The departments rarely dole out more ammo than is needed for qualifying. Most I know in LE rarely shoot on their own except immediately preceding their qualifications. There are exceptions of course.



It always amazed me how many deputies I worked with were NOT gun people! There are many that ONLY fired their weapons on qualification days and most couldn't even field strip for cleaning.

We were issued 50rds of handgun and 40rds of rifle/month and maybe 10% of us actually took advantage. I tried to have a "Range Day" at least once a month on a day off and I would often have our private range all to myself!

I took it very seriously, however not many do not!

Elk Country
I used to watch the show "cops" and could hardly believe how many officers, especially from the eastern areas didn't know how to clear a recovered weapon.
A long time ago, around the mid 1970's IIRC, My hunting partner and I helped with a round up and branding One of the other cowboys did the job of nutting the calves. When we were al done my buddy and I went and did a bit of pheasant hunting. What is interesting is what happened after the hunt.
We were over by the corral and got to talking with a 90 something year old cowboy. He noticed my Ruger .44 mag. and asked if I had an empty chamber under the hammer. Well, the gun was a new model so I said no i didn't. I got one of the most beautiful ass chewing I've ever had the pleasure (?) of getting and when he finally ran out of gas I explained that it was a "new" model and was safe with 6 in the cylinder he just shook his head and said the did not believe that to be true. I found a fair sized rock and pointed the gun at the ground and gave the hammer a solid whack. Of course nothing happened but for some reason after that I now load even a new model Blackhawk with the hammer on an empty chamber. I also own old model Rugers and a few Colt single actions so just figure it's probably a good habit to maintain. I wish I could have talked with that old cowboy. What tales he could have told. He passed about 6 months after I met him. One old timer I met when I lived in Winnemucca was just a kid at the time playing hooky with his pals. They actually witnessed Butch Cassidy and his gang rob the bank. That old boy is long gone too. I worked part time with his nephew who was the local gunsmith.
Paul B.
Originally Posted by Tracks
I used to watch the show "cops" and could hardly believe how many officers, especially from the eastern areas didn't know how to clear a recovered weapon.


Almost painful to watch.
Facts are most people that own guns are bad shots, this includes those whose jobs require them to carry
Originally Posted by 12344mag
I'm thinking Elmer Keith was a pretty good shot.



He was.

Lots were. Including me, when I was young, dumb, and cowboying.

I could already shoot VERY well. But I didn't practice often. I had always shot well, even as a very young boy.


When I traded a cold horse for a warm patrol car, and eventually ended up at the range, they all wanted to know who taught me how to shoot...

Nobody. I just taught myself.

Then the more I shot, the more I learned, and took a bit of coaching and went on to shoot competition in a couple of different shooting sports, and even on to shooting professionally after competing.


Practice and training help. But unless you have a God given ability, you probably won't ever be anything but an avg. marksman.
Off topic, a new thing on the 'fire, I had been around firearms all my life. There were boots that could out shoot me that had never seen a rifle until basic training.

It's still safer behind me than in front however.
Originally Posted by 700LH
Facts are most people that own guns are bad shots, this includes those whose jobs require them to carry


yup, but certainly no one here...
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
At the OK Corral, about 30 shots were fired, 2 men were killed and 3 wounded IIRC. They were as close as 6' apart. That's a lot of lead in a very tight spot yet only 2 died. That's not the best shooting I've ever heard of.


I’ve been to the OK Corral. I was amazed at how small it was !
Originally Posted by 12344mag
I'm thinking Elmer Keith was a pretty good shot.


And I’m betting he was a pretty fair hand at cowboying too.
He certainly spent quite a bit of time mounted on a good horse from what I’ve read.
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