I finally had a chance to put my new range to use. I took 3 guns. With each rifle/scope combo, something was defective and will have to go back.

The Riton scope has an advertised 4.4 inches of eye relief. It is under 3. Just about unusable on the bench. Adjusting it in on target was a bit of a mystery. Like a typical Leupold, but not quite as bad. It's an RT-S Mod 5 Gen 2 4-15x50 and it's going back to Riton.

I had the Remington 5R 223 the Riton rested on out in daylight for the first time. The stock is cracked. The bottom metal is tarnished. The rounds in the magazine are staggered a little bit left and right as is typical of bolt guns. When it feeds off the right, the round kicks up and goes over the bolt. Accuracy sucked too. It's going back to Remington. This 5R is supposed to be one of their better offerings.









The Burris Droptine 4.5x14x42 has been tried on 2 different rifles with two different ring and base combos on one of them. The gun it was tried on today was a known shooter in a Ruger 10-22 I built. I pulled a Weaver 44/40 off of it. I initially tried it with the same rings and bases I had the Weaver in. This was a few months ago. I maxed out the elevation and was way low on target. I ordered some Talleys and tried them out today. Same story. It's going back to Burris.

The Ruger Predator HM2 that Whittaker had done in a special run splits every CCI and Remington case I shoot out of it. It only split one of the Hornady's. The catch here is that the Marlin HM2 I have doesn't split any to the best of my recollection. It's been years since I shot it. I am going to take them both next time and do a more extensive trial. If the Ruger splits 'em and the Marlin doesn't the Ruger is going back. Hell, I may as well send Rugers back before I ever un-box them. That's the way it has gone lately.

Seriously who has this kind of shidt for luck?

Well I've had some good Rugers.

But I've had some that were cursed by gypsies before they left the factory and then again when they were sent back to me.

There's alot of shyt out there from Remington and Ruger and has been for a long time. Ruger will take care of their abortions to your satisfaction or refund your money, one or the other. Remington ? Good luck, which is why I don't and won't buy anything Remington.

I haven't been impressed by the Ruger American offerings...

That is why I call it the Ruger Mexican instead...

on the other hand....I am a big fan of the Ruger 77 Mk 2.

Hope you have better luck on the next outing

Still better than working.

I politely disagree. I wanted to stack the damn things up and let the Mahindra chew them up with the bush hog. I have has my fill of crap quality.

I'll never ask you to pick a scope or rifle for me.

PaulBarnard: Definitely and thankfully - not me!
Sorry for your troubles - I used to be Big Greens #1 Rifle advocate - sadly as of 4 or 5 years ago I completely quit buying "new" Remington Rifle and endorsing their various offerings.
I find enough "as new" Remington Rifles for sale from the 70's, 80's & 90's to keep me fully equipped and contented with their above average accuracy.
Again sorry for your compounded problems - I hope Big Green comes through for you.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

It isn’t luck, avoid crap.
A range day or hunting trip with Tikkas/SWFAs, is just too easy.

buy old remmy 788's,tikka's and savages. bushnell elite 4200,6500

Paul please tell us you did not ride your bike, to the range

That's been my experience as well. Four out of the five Rugers I have purchased have had to go back for warranty service. In every case they made it easy and the repair was done quickly and permanently. The AR was a complete replacement. Only Ruger not sent back was a 10/22.

I'm an old fart, and unlike many here my experiences don't lead me to gush over 70s and 80s era Remingtons, and ditto Leupolds. Remingtons were mixed. An excellent .308 Varminter from around 1978, and a M700 Classic that was a total abortion. Bent firing pin, bolt full of steel chips, and a misshapen stock with a finish like a football, no polishing at all on the underside of the receiver. A Leupold Vari-X II that failed on an out-of-state hunt, and was found to have broken internals. Other Leupolds also needed service, including my son's Vari-X III that couldn't be zeroed right at the start.

I'm not a dedicated junky for any brand. They all have to prove and continue to prove their worth to earn and hold my loyalty.

Paul

Had a couple of Burris scopes back in the mid '80s. They were stolen and not replaced. I don't miss them.

Don't speak Riton, dunno what that is.

Never had a significant problem with a Ruger, but all I ever owned were old stuff. They all worked fine, shot OK to Ho Li Wow! Still have a couple and won't part with them anytime soon.

Have an old Remington 700 that's been massaged a little. You can't have that one either.

I know Jack Schidt.

Buy cheap production rifles and then expect superior firearms is like paying for azz with expectations of true loyalty. Rarely do you hear of problems with Brownings,. But then again you do not buy them for $300. I never had a single issue with Blazer rifles and that comes after about a dozen of them I have or did own.

Remind me to never get in a car or airplane with you.

Out of a bunch of Ruger handguns and rifles purchased over 35 years or so, only one ever had to go back, a New Bearcat that had to go back twice because the first "repair" actually made things worse. No cost to me, except in aggravation.

My newest is the same RAR .17 as yours. Mine works flawlessly, with no splits observed. Accuracy is not what I'd hoped for, with flyers, but I blame that on the current ammunition. The bedding design leaves little room for any troubles on that score. When I received it, the trigger guard was broken, courtesy of UPS, and Ruger sent a replacement quickly, at no cost. Right now it's on consignment because the accuracy issue is something I feel can't be improved by me, only by Hornady or CCI. Still, it's as good as many .22s with HSHPs, so it may come home someday if it doesn't sell.

My other Rugers right now include a Hawkeye AW .223, which shoots 40gr Fiocchi Vmax ammo so well there's almost no reason to load my own for varmints. I do have loads worked up with a couple of "deer" bullets just in case. That one also works perfectly. The last one is a 10/22 CSC, which ran about $700 by the time I got it home. There is a tiny spot on the barrel with the blueing missing, but otherwise it also works perfectly, and has turned in some nice groups. I'm hoping for improvement after some more break-in and ammo testing. Before I bought it, I "built" some in cyberspace with parts frim various sources, and decided I was ahead money- and feature-wise with the one that Ruger sells.

Only Remington here now is my 581, which I got for Christmas in 1967. About 2000 or so, the original magazine started to have some issues, so I picked up another. I expect a little cleaning and maybe lubrication will set the old one right. Based largely on the issues observed by my son while working at Gander Mountain, I've stayed away from new Remingtons for about 15 years. Gotta say though that the 700 Police .308 he bought was a very fine shooter. Still have a couple targets with three-shot 200 yard groups that are hard to believe.

Whatever is the opposite of having a horseshoe up one's tookas, you appear to have in abundance. You should consider tossing a virgin, if you can find one, in a handy volcano to change that.😛

Might ought to try a Savage once.

probably nothing wrong with the Burris other than limited erector travel......that model specs at 40 moa total movement


your rings , bases , receiver combination is simply not lining up with the bore.......way more common than you might think

I have Remingtons , *good ones* made in the seventies that are so far off you have to use multiple shims AND windage adjustable bases to get any sort of scope sighted in


older M70 s , it is not unheard of to have the receiver threads cut so that the barrel is pointing downward


these sort of problems are why it costs so much to have an action blueprinted , and why the custom actions can demand such a high price , hard to believe you have not experienced such issues before

A bike ride was the best part of the weekend.

I live in New Orleans. My acreage is 100 miles away in MS. I took Friday off. I was going to spend a 3 day weekend hunting, riding and then closing the weekend out shooting on a range that I built on my land. My cell cameras showed deer coming out in the last of the legal shooting light in the evening and again at day break. Just as I was getting ready to go sit in my ground blind I heard a hunting dog sounding. It ran right down through where my blind was and sounded all throughout the bottom until dark. The dog was at it again first thing Saturday morning. Then rain started coming through on what was to be a completely dry day.

I was able to squeeze in a quick ride and carve tunnels in the woods for my grand nephews. Those little farts love having a place to run around beating each other with sticks and otherwise acting like boys should.

Has Remington QC gotten better lately, or is it a crap shoot yet?

Another scope came off of that same rifle in the same set of rings and bases, and it had plenty of room for adjustment. Maxed out it was still way low. About 3 inches at 25 yards. Is that something that could be shimmed? If so, where would you place a shim?

I own half a dozen Savage rifles as well as Marlins all but one Marlin a 357 mag that would not cycle 38 special wad cutters well from the factory were indeed flawless. After bitching about the 38 spl wad cutter issue I red the disclaimer from Marlin....do not shoot 38 special wad cutters they are not reliably cycled .

This 5R model is supposed to be a nicer gun than the standard 700. At $850 it certainly cost more. This is the first Remington that has had issues for me.

https://www.remington.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/model-700-stainless-5-r

Remington quality has not been good at any time since I started general gunsmithing in 1990. It was better under Dupont than it has been since.

Savage has never disappointed me in performance. I should have bought the Savage HM2 instead. I have 2 other Ruger American Rimfires. They both shoot well and have noticeably smoother actions. One is a 22 magnum that doesn't like to extract one brand (Aguila) of brass. It extracts all others.

the other scope most likely had enough erector travel to line up, various scopes do differ alot in that respect....you would shim the rear base or at the rear holes if one piece to raise the barrel/point of impact

Then count yourself lucky.

I have had enough Ruger issues to make up for my luck with Remington. I had sworn Ruger off before the special run HM2. Conceptually I liked it well enough to risk it. I was stupid. Never will another Ruger gun come into my house. When my bud handled it, he loved it. I talked him out of buying one. I hate that for Whittaker. They got into them pretty heavy because so many people wanted them. Then when word of the issues hit the 'net, sales came to a skid.

It will be interesting to see how Remington handles this. I will call them tomorrow.

Sorry you had bad luck. I have a 5R 300 Win mag. It is flawless. I hope they correct yours. I really like 700’s, probably had 20 through the years, have around ten now. I’ve never had issues with any of them. It’s a pain to send things back, again sorry you are having troubles!

Do you know of a good source for shims?

Brownells or Amazon

Brownells shim kit.

Wow, you every try Google?

Coors cans , cut to size....but the ready made Brownells are handy

Think I would look at tikka rifles and SS scopes. A ton of reliability and accuracy for not much money. It would certainly be better than your current situation.

Paul, were any of these rifles those that you found on close outs ?

I recall that you got some steals of a deal on a few rifles.

I don't know how many Rugers I have owned since buying my first M77 in 1978. Had one stainless Vaquero that had to go back to have some cosmetic issues fixed, but mechanically they have all been trouble free. The old tang-safety M77's had a much higher quality of fit & finish, IMHO. I guess I'm a bit biased.

Paul just has rotten luck and he likes to wear it like a badge of cour.....some kind of badge. Most people would have to buy well over 1k rifles to experience the issues he has weekly...........

Can anyobe spell attention seeker? Whoops, i just did...........

Burris rings with the shims you can change are perfect. I have them on target guns and boomers with no problem. Another advantage is no scope scarring. You can also use these to shim sideways if necessary. Good luck. I have 2 Burris pistol scopes I had to send in for warranty. One the front popped off of and the other had crap falling off inside . Got them back with the front crossthreaded on and after a couple shots with the other one more junk in the tube. No more Burris. Ed k

I think you’re wrong.

None of these were the closeouts.

Reason I ask is is that I put a buddy on to your post about the closeouts. He was headed up to his Mississippi lease, stopped at the Walmart in McComb to get a few things, saw a Ruger American Model in 30-06 and asked to clerk to scan it as it showed listed price on the tag . Scan showed 195$. He jumped on it and it is a very good shooter such that he invested in a cerakote job and put an upscale scope on it.

He doesn’t post here but asked me to thank you and so it is.

Hope your conundrums gets worked out to your satisfaction.

That's great to hear about your bud's -06.

Part 2 that might bring a grin:

When he got to the camp and showed his cousin his find, the cousin called Walmart, was on hold for quite a spell and finally found that they had one left in .243. Cuz gave them his credit card # and drove back down to MCComb, got the rifle and back to camp. This one stays at the camp for guests to use.

Ya done good.

That Walmart location sells more hunting licenses than any of their other locations in the lower 48.

I consider you lucky.....the only good Ruger I have had was a pair of .44 mag Vaqueros. A M-77 in .243 and another in 7-Mag, a NO 1 in 6mm Rem, a single action convertible rimfire, and a 9mm auto were (IMO) junk. I won't buy another one!

I have had Four 5Rs in the last couple of years... They have all been Flawless in fit and Finnish and function.....all were tack drivers .....I just picked up a New H&S model 7 It is Flawless...I must have good luck......

Last 2 purchases:

-Remington 700 VLS in .308
-Ruger 10/22 Satinless with 20" bbl

Remington went back for cracks in the laminated stock between layers. It was poorly attempted to fix at the factory and glue was obviously applied. Stock replaced at no cost.

Ruger the rail didn't align with the barrel. Receiver replaced. Obviously a new serial number was on the gun and they paid then FFL transfer fee too, no cost. Still waiting on the check. Should be here in a few days. Now the scope aligns with the barrel.

Once bought a BACO model 70 -06 and the rear ring was at 11 o'clock and the front ring was at high noon. Lemons happen. I figure 1 in 10 factory guns need warranty work based on my experience. Sad but true.

Remington Quality is Better than it has ever been.......I am sure they put out a lemon every now and then...But so does every one else......

I read a lot about them before I bought mine. I hope they get it sorted out and I find a good load or three for it. Do you have one in 223?

Dang PB, if it wasn't for bad luck, you wouldn't have any at all. Hope they get it all fixed for ya.

First Ruger was a Mk I .22 pistol. It was a good one. Sold it.

Second Ruger was a Security Six. Went back to the factory to fix a problem. Came back with that problem fixed but a whole new problem. Went back to the factory a second time and it came back with the second problem fixed but with a third completely new problem. (Gypsy curse.) Sold it.

Since then every Ruger 10/22 I've ever had was a jammomatic. I've currently got one but I had to send the bolt off to CPC to be fixed - by which I mean made the way it should have been made at the factory.

Had a Blackhawk .45 convertible that was perfectly fine. Sold it.

Have a Mk IV .22 pistol that is perfectly fine. Have an LCP Mk I that's perfectly fine. Have a No. 1 in 7x57 that's perfectly fine.

Have a 77 RSL in .243 that's really excellent but I bought it second hand so its possible somebody had to throw money at it to make it work.

So I've currently got five Rugers that work fine (now) and I'm happy (enough) with. That said I'm never surprised when the next Ruger is a POS.

In fairness to Burris I need to update this thread. I installed an aftermarket V-block on my 10/22. Apparently the factory one allowed too much barrel droop. With the new V-block I had enough adjustment. The scope is actually fantastic.

But now I can add the Christensen Arms Mesa I bought at the same time to the list of failures. I took it out for its second range session. It does not eject the empty brass. I called CA. It's a known problem. They got a bad batch of springs for their ejectors. They are sending me a return authorization.





The gun is obnoxiously accurate. With Factory Hornady match ammo it's do this. That's a 1" target dot. I measured .55 center to center. I shot 2 3 shot groups with 2 different handloads. In both cases there were only 2 holes in the target. two through damn near the same hole and another an inch off. They'll do better. I wasn't settling in good as I forgot my good shooting chair and had to make do with a chessy folding 3 leg stool.

Another follow-up. I sent the Remington back. It was sent back to me 2 months later with a new mag follower, a new stock and new bottom metal. I tried 5 loads with it over the weekend. Noting better than about an inch and a quarter. I am going to put a new scope on it and go back with a good shooting stool and try again.

This is making me dread trying my new Nosler.

I bought a new Ruger Bisley Blackhawk in 44 mag last year and it looked like a high school shop project. They did square it up, but it was sad they let something of that quality out the door. I also bought a Bisley 44 special, and the quality on it was far superior.

A dozen 1022, think the newest around '95.
No jams. But then I also dont run Remington ammo.

MK1,2 and 22/45.......zero probs.

A few OM revolvers. No probs.
Did have a NM and OM that looked great, reliable.....but not very good shooters.

Had others that were accurate.

Number 1's? Only had three, two of em shot great.
Have not tried the 3rd one yet. Just got a scope for it.

Dammit, Paul. That's crap for a bolt 223. Hopefully it was the setup, or maybe it's just picky with ammo. I hadn't seen this thread before today. Now I'm personally invested in how the Nosler rifle works out for you!

Reliability?
One gun, Auto Ordinance pit bull that cracked bushings.

175 or so other guns over the years and they functioned fine.

Accuracy?

Two old 1022s sucked, both had some wood pressure on bbl issues. One responded favorably to minor sanding.one did not.

Winchester BB 94 in 307 was horrible shooter. Dunno why, it went bye bye.

Another Win, 9422M shot well but off to the side quite a bit.

Springfield Champion 1911......put em in two diff groups.
Think hood needed built up. Sold it and got a Colt Commander thats been stellar.

Scopes? 2 new Leupolds wouldnt adjust. One fixed one replaced. Redfield tracker had reticle ring come loose ( rattle ). It got fixed. Weaver v9 AO went back twice for fogging.

Those loads ranged from 55 grains all the way up to 70 and several different powders. My Savage LW Hunter 223 will easily outshoot it, and that shouldn't be. I will try some factory ammo to just to have that data point. I should check the torque on the action screws too.

Pay once cry once. Recently put this together. Sako paired with Nightforce.

A dozen Blazers. Heaven.

I have owned 3 Ruger bolt action rifles in my life, a .22, a .22 Hornet and a .257 Roberts. Neither of them would hit a hat at 100 yards despite intensive tinkering and messing with loads or ammo. Took them down the road to the gunshow, took a licking on the prices and figured I came out ahead.

This.

Yup. It’s the simplest path to predictable/fun range trips.

there is a lot of sh-it out there, Ruger has refunded my money on a Model 77, Smith and Wesson has refunded my money twice their revolvers are very poor quality these days, there is no reason to buy and Leupold variable scopes as others offer comparable with better mechanics, I would struggle to buy a scope these days that did not have a lot of reviews indicating that it was bulletproof, a $1000 Nf shv that I can rely on is better than 3 $300 chinese scopes I sh-itcan. OTOH talking about wasting money, the smith revolvers are so bad these days you may as well piss your money away on a taurus, so there is that side of the coin as well.

It's like putting Fireball and JeffO in a bag, shaking, and coming out with one person

This is somewhat depressing.
Wonder what the qc out of these factories will be like when the stuff hits the shelves that was assembled during the lung funk crisis?
I bought a Rem 233 varmint cheap a couple years back for the action. Thought I'd try it just for s&g. Inch and a half best with 5 different bullets and 3 powders. Thought maybe it was the cheesy stock so I glued it in a old wood 40x with pillars. No improvement.
Its waiting on my guy to true and install a Krieger barrel.
I'll have more in it than ill ever get back. But I knew that going in.
Got more chit than I have time to play with, I think I'll stop buying anything else.

I recently bought Remington Police CTR`s in 308 and 223.Both shoot under 1/2" at 100 yards.They come with 40x triggers that are easily adjusted to 2 pounds.I am more than happy with them.