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Posted By: High_Noon Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Perhaps we should start a dedicated "Tool" forum. My Drill Bit thread and this one might be a good starting point...

I'm going to make a small kitchen table and a Bud in OR is sending me a slab of Fiddleback Maple ~ 40"x25"x2". I'm gonna need to smooth and flatten it a bit since he cut the slab w/ an Alaskan mill, but I will leave the "live" edges.

I don't know much about wood planes, and I've never really had any success operating one, but I understand that the old Stanley planes are highly regarded and they can readily be found on fleabay, but they're expensive. There are many types planes and if I wanted to start with 2 of them, what would be the best type(s)/brand to start with and do y'all have any tips for how to run one effectively? Yes, I'm aware they need to be sharp.

Or should I build a router box and have at it that way?

EDIT: In regard to finish, should I use straight Mineral Oil or BLO? I don't really want to use a stain, varnish or Poly. I want it to have a more natural appearance, but one that is easily maintainable and reasonably stain-resistant.

Thanks.
Posted By: Borchardt Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Wasn't the de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito a wood plane?
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Originally Posted by Borchardt
Wasn't the de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito a wood plane?

Very helpful. Thanks.
Posted By: justin10mm Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Posted By: Stickfight Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Here is the last known photo of Kobe Bryant, just before he boarded the helicopter he died in. Hope it helps.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
Posted By: OldmanoftheSea Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Good idea on the tool forum. Probably will wind up with metal and wood subdivisions....

It might be helpful to know the dimensions of your slab...

Mills have power planes the ones I have seen will handle up to about a three foot wide plank.

I have seen smaller home shop ones up to about 16" widths.

Once you get into hand tools I think planes are a bit like squares and back saws. You can pay a lot for good stuff and there are only a few places to get them now...I am not sure I would go at a table surface with a little hand plane..

There is part of a wood working reference in the shop. I will see if planing is in it...
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Lots of different approaches but no matter which way you go realize the fancy figure will make planing far more difficult. Doing it by hand planes would eliminate the need for a gym membership. It would also reduce the need for a dust collection system. And be much quieter.

Speed is all you add with machines.
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
And you could start slow by making your own planes...
Posted By: johnn Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
For a table use a router box, made one for doing burls... works well and you can make it flat, which will be tricky with a power plane. One thing I think would be worthwhile is to invest in a proper bit. I used a 3/4 or 1 inch straight bit, but a planning bit has the cutters set on a steep angle and I think it would produce a smoother finish.
Posted By: huntsman22 Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
I'd find a local cabinet shop and run it thru their drum sander......
Posted By: Heym06 Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Find a cabinet shop with a big enough planner, or sander and save some time! That way will have time for the up coming, my plane is bigger than your plane posts! Just saying.
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Originally Posted by huntsman22
I'd find a local cabinet shop and run it thru their drum sander......

Has to go through a planer before the sander. The sander does not get it flat, just smooth. My small industrial sander does 28" wide flat stock.
Posted By: Orion2000 Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Agree... Find a local wood shop with appropriate size planer and drum sander... Press the easy button...
Posted By: mart Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
I have a pretty good accumulation of Stanley planes. Sharp is definitely the key. A set of water stones or diamond hones and a Veritas sharpening jig are very helpful. If you don't want to put out the money for stones then adhesive backed sandpaper in progressively finer grit is great. I use the sandpaper on a scrap piece of granite counter top.

There are a lot of great videos on using hand planes. David Charlesworth has some very good videos but you don't need to buy videos, Youtube has lots of good instructional videos.

How you sharpen a plane depends on how you intend to use it. If you are planing an edge, jointing is the term, then a straight blade is fine. If you are surfacing a board then you'll want to incorporate some camber into the blade edge. I use a Stanley 3, 4 or 4 1/2 for surfacing and a 5, 6, 7 or 8 for jointing.

I would use BLO over mineral oil as a finish unless you're doing a cutting board. Then use a food grade mineral oil. BLO will not give the hard finish of poly but is easy to touch up. I like it on my work bench surface.
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Originally Posted by mart
I have a pretty good accumulation of Stanley planes. Sharp is definitely the key. A set of water stones or diamond hones and a Veritas sharpening jig are very helpful. If you don't want to put out the money for stones then adhesive backed sandpaper in progressively finer grit is great. I use the sandpaper on a scrap piece of granite counter top.

There are a lot of great videos on using hand planes. David Charlesworth has some very good videos but you don't need to buy videos, Youtube has lots of good instructional videos.

How you sharpen a plane depends on how you intend to use it. If you are planing a edge, jointing is the term, then a straight blade is fine. If you are surfacing a board then you'll want to incorporate some camber into the blade edge. I use a Stanley 3, 4 or 4 1/2 for surfacing and a 5, 6, 7 or 8 for jointing.

I would use BLO over mineral oil as a finish unless you're doing a cutting board. Then use a food grade mineral oil. BLO will not give the hard finish of poly but is easy to touch up. I like it on my work bench surface.

BLO is a garbage finish. Quality linseed or tung oil from a quality paint or art store is an entirely different thing...
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
justin10mm: What model sander is that DeWalt?

Stickfight: Yes indeed. Extremely helpful, thanks, you Basterd. eek

OldmanoftheSea: Thanks – great idea. My Bud in OR knows someone with a giant planer and is going to try and take the slab to him. I’ll still need to finish sand or plane as it will come to me rough – about the equivalent of 120 grit, I think. The slab measurements were listed in my initial post: ~ 40"x25"x2."

Sitka: Good point. Yep – no hurry w/ this project. & duly noted on the BLO – I mainly use it for axe hafts.

johnn: I was planning on looking into router boxes a bit more. Good advice on the router bits.

huntsman22: Not a bad idea.

Heym: Excellent point, but I’m afraid it won’t work. All ‘fire threads end up there at some point.

Orion2000: Will try to have my OR Bud get it planed on his end prior to shipping. The Easy Button is good.

mart: Thankyousir. I'll definitely look for instructional videos on the interwebs - good idea. & Yes, I realize that sharpening is a big part of planning and although I have a good set of stones, I’ll need to invest in a jig and either a few more stones, or the sandpaper, as you suggested. So, if you were just starting w/ planes and could only afford 2 Stanleys, which would you choose and why?
Posted By: Heym06 Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by huntsman22
I'd find a local cabinet shop and run it thru their drum sander......

Has to go through a planer before the sander. The sander does not get it flat, just smooth. My small industrial sander does 28" wide flat stock.

Sounds like you have nice equipment! My point was save time, by having someone like you do the job for him!
Posted By: BC30cal Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
High Noon;
Good afternoon to you sir, I trust that all is as well as can be all things considered.

If I may do this first, my background in answering this question is spending 27 years in the kitchen cabinet and furniture industry.

For over 3 years I ran one of these as well as being Lead Hand in the work cell where we did the rough ripping, then molding, planing and sanding of all the cabinet door parts.

[Linked Image from machinerysales.com]

Please note that the safety stop bar is missing from that photo - it's a 2 head 37" Sandingmaster made in Holland.

Anyways for the last several years we also ended up with a 52" wide belt sander from Italy - funny the name escapes me at present but will come to me hours later when it no longer is relevant.

Most of my time in the cabinet industry I was involved with millwright work too, since that sort of thing has always made sense to me somehow.

In this instance I'll differ with Sitka Deer in that a good wide belt sander operator can very easily dimension wider pieces such as table tops - we did it daily because our planer was only 24" wide and we made tables which had wider tops.

The front head on a sander like the one in the photo is solid and when the operator runs something like an 80 Grit up front it's not an issue to remove up to a millimeter at a time - but that's about it.

We'd often have folks bring in various projects to get sanded and would do it as long as there wasn't an excess of glue on the laminated tops or the wood was really wet or sappy. In those instances it'd usually mean we'd kill a belt which back then was more than $50 each, having bought none in 6 years I'm not sure what they'd be worth today, sorry.

If it were me building a table, I'd canvas the local furniture and cabinet makers to see if anyone has a big enough machine to take it down to where I need it and what they'd need to do it.

In my experience the end result would be preferable to attempting to do something that large by hand.

Hopefully that was useful information sir, good luck with your project and stay well.

Dwayne
Posted By: RJY66 Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
I think the best options are using a big machine if you can access one as others have said or build a router box sled deal and do it that way. The possibilities of screwing up the piece are endless with hand tools unless you are skilled at using them. From my experience trying to do a table top with a belt sander, you fix one dip, then create another, etc.etc.

Once you get it flat you can sand it with an orbital sander.....hard to mess it up too bad with one of those.

Posted By: North6120 Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
I recently made a small mantel from a piece of maple that was twisted a good 3/4" front to back. I took the slab, leveled it best I could on a job box and hot glued it down. I built a very crude router sled and planed the bottom side. Flipped it over and the top side was even easier now that it sat much flatter. I was skeptical, but it worked great. I used a 1" diameter bottom clean out bit and my average Bosch router spun it up just fine. Just make sure you go slow, overlap your router passes and don't try cutting on both the push and pull strokes. It took very little clean up with my orbital sander.

Attached picture Router Sled.jpg
Posted By: TimberRunner Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
If you can get it through a planer, that's best. I had access to a cabinet shop sander on my live edge but it didn't quite eliminate the cupping. I ended up hand planing with an electric planer and using a belt sander with 50 grit. I got it down pretty level and smooth.

I was about to build a router sled but just decided to go with what I had.
Posted By: mart Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Originally Posted by High_Noon

mart: Thankyousir. I'll definitely look for instructional videos on the interwebs - good idea. & Yes, I realize that sharpening is a big part of planning and although I have a good set of stones, I’ll need to invest in a jig and either a few more stones, or the sandpaper, as you suggested. So, if you were just starting w/ planes and could only afford 2 Stanleys, which would you choose and why?


If just two planes, I'd go with a 4 1/2 sharpened with a camber for surfacing and a 7 for jointing. A #5 would be okay but the 7 has a lot more mass, not a bad thing when planing. I'd probably look for a Stanley Bedrock 604 1/2 and a 607. They were an improved version of the originals and regarded as a better plane. Here's a very good link to some great information regarding Stanley planes. I'd use the 4 1/2 for the same reason, a little more mass and a slightly wider cutting surface.

Stanley planes

Both Veritas and Lee-Nielsen make modern planes that are every bit as good, if not better than the original Stanleys. And they are built like the Bedrock models rather than the original Stanleys.

Power tools are great time savers and I use them far more than hand tools but there is something almost cathartic about using a sharp hand plane and rolling up those whisper thin curls and listening to the plane glide over the surface of the wood. No hearing protection required.
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Originally Posted by BC30cal
High Noon;
Good afternoon to you sir, I trust that all is as well as can be all things considered.

If I may do this first, my background in answering this question is spending 27 years in the kitchen cabinet and furniture industry.

For over 3 years I ran one of these as well as being Lead Hand in the work cell where we did the rough ripping, then molding, planing and sanding of all the cabinet door parts.

[Linked Image from machinerysales.com]

Please note that the safety stop bar is missing from that photo - it's a 2 head 37" Sandingmaster made in Holland.

Anyways for the last several years we also ended up with a 52" wide belt sander from Italy - funny the name escapes me at present but will come to me hours later when it no longer is relevant.

Most of my time in the cabinet industry I was involved with millwright work too, since that sort of thing has always made sense to me somehow.

In this instance I'll differ with Sitka Deer in that a good wide belt sander operator can very easily dimension wider pieces such as table tops - we did it daily because our planer was only 24" wide and we made tables which had wider tops.

The front head on a sander like the one in the photo is solid and when the operator runs something like an 80 Grit up front it's not an issue to remove up to a millimeter at a time - but that's about it.

We'd often have folks bring in various projects to get sanded and would do it as long as there wasn't an excess of glue on the laminated tops or the wood was really wet or sappy. In those instances it'd usually mean we'd kill a belt which back then was more than $50 each, having bought none in 6 years I'm not sure what they'd be worth today, sorry.

If it were me building a table, I'd canvas the local furniture and cabinet makers to see if anyone has a big enough machine to take it down to where I need it and what they'd need to do it.

In my experience the end result would be preferable to attempting to do something that large by hand.

Hopefully that was useful information sir, good luck with your project and stay well.

Dwayne

Dwayne
Lots more machine than I have and I can accept getting it to do lots more. Do you have to use a sled for flattening?
Posted By: m_stevenson Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
If you can’t find a cabinet shop or such to do this, make a router sled. I will be using mine on a number of slabs, so I built this one to be used on up to 36” wide stock.
Posted By: BC30cal Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Sitka deer;
Good afternoon sir, it's been too long since we've conversed - I hope you and your fine family are still doing acceptably well.

Sometimes I'd use a sled and sometimes not - depending on what the surfaces on both sides looked like, the wood type and all the little details.

The trick I found was not putting it through the same way, or better said rotating the part 180° every time. Somehow no matter how careful one was, the leading edge would always get a tiny bit more taken off - maybe as little as a .25mm Sitka, but that piles up quick when you're doing 40 or 50 passes.

We'd usually save old course belts just for that sort of work, so if they'd get full of glue it wasn't the end of the world.

Funny I still haven't thought of the bigger Italian machine's name yet. It had a slightly deeper throat than the Sandingmaster - we could only do a bit less than 6" thick with it if memory serves.

The front head on both was a rubber coated drum, but hard, hard rubber so not much give at all. The diameter on the front drum would have been 10" or so?

The back head had a platen with a solid steel roller on either side of the platen. The platen was felt with graphite backed canvas material for the contact surface.

All the rollers were super heavy - as in when changing the bearings one needed to be careful even putting the roller down as it'd flatten one's fingers quite adeptly.

Hahaha - I was running that thing and the bearing went out on the extreme rear roller on the second head. It turned that big roller into a cam shaft and the machine vibrated so much it moved a couple inches forward!!!

Was quite noisy too when it let go Sitka - I recall that like it was happening in now!!! Salesman and the boss came running out of the office and show room... Ah good times..

All the best to you folks Sitka - do stay well.

Dwayne
Posted By: AKA_Spook Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Originally Posted by Stickfight
Here is the last known photo of Kobe Bryant, just before he boarded the helicopter he died in. Hope it helps.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]


damn near pissed m'self TFF
Posted By: 35 Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Originally Posted by justin10mm
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]



BINGO !
BLO or Tung oil work well.
Here`s a Walnut slab that I finished with Tung oil.

[Linked Image from i113.photobucket.com]

[Linked Image from i113.photobucket.com]
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Dwayne: Thank you, good Sir, for the very informative post.

RJY66: Agreed.

North6120: Nice little sled ya’ got there.

TimberRunner: Agreed. Hopefully my OR Bud will be able to get it planed for me on his end b4 shipping.

mart: Great info there, thanks. I'll have to start saving for a 607 & a 604. Those puppies aren't cheap.

M_stevenson: I need to build a sled anyway, for another project, but using a giant planer is a much better & easier idea.

35: That walnut looks awesome. My Bud in OR recently milled some Black Walnut slabs, but they need to dry for a year; otherwise he’d send me that in pretty much any size I wanted.
Posted By: slumlord Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
I’d like to refinish the wood on my wood plane.
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Originally Posted by BC30cal
Sitka deer;
Good afternoon sir, it's been too long since we've conversed - I hope you and your fine family are still doing acceptably well.

Sometimes I'd use a sled and sometimes not - depending on what the surfaces on both sides looked like, the wood type and all the little details.

The trick I found was not putting it through the same way, or better said rotating the part 180° every time. Somehow no matter how careful one was, the leading edge would always get a tiny bit more taken off - maybe as little as a .25mm Sitka, but that piles up quick when you're doing 40 or 50 passes.

We'd usually save old course belts just for that sort of work, so if they'd get full of glue it wasn't the end of the world.

Funny I still haven't thought of the bigger Italian machine's name yet. It had a slightly deeper throat than the Sandingmaster - we could only do a bit less than 6" thick with it if memory serves.

The front head on both was a rubber coated drum, but hard, hard rubber so not much give at all. The diameter on the front drum would have been 10" or so?

The back head had a platen with a solid steel roller on either side of the platen. The platen was felt with graphite backed canvas material for the contact surface.

All the rollers were super heavy - as in when changing the bearings one needed to be careful even putting the roller down as it'd flatten one's fingers quite adeptly.

Hahaha - I was running that thing and the bearing went out on the extreme rear roller on the second head. It turned that big roller into a cam shaft and the machine vibrated so much it moved a couple inches forward!!!

Was quite noisy too when it let go Sitka - I recall that like it was happening in now!!! Salesman and the boss came running out of the office and show room... Ah good times..

All the best to you folks Sitka - do stay well.

Dwayne


I have not had the good fortune to work on that size machine... mine does a fair job with a sled but the rounded corners and potential torn paper (bought a lot of sandpaper for it over the years!) keep me from doing more than very small jobs on it unless the pieces are true to start.
Posted By: scoony Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
A sled and router would be the easy way to go.

I use hand planes because thats what I have and they work great, if you have sharp blades and the planes are fettled correctly.
A Stanley #5 and Stanley #7 would flatten them in about 10 minutes per side. Getting a #5 off flea bay and expecting it to work upon arrival is not realistic. Buying new ones (Stanley type) can be expensive with Woodriver on the low end and Lie Nielsen on the high end.

If the grain is not too crazy, I can get a finished surface from the planes. no or very light sanding required.
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Originally Posted by scoony
If the grain is not too crazy, I can get a finished surface from the planes. no or very light sanding required.

Yep. I've seen fellers on the interwebs do that - pretty cool.

If I get a used Stanley, I'm sure it would need a good sharpening and adjustment, but set-up shouldn't be too difficult.
Posted By: scoony Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
And you could start slow by making your own planes...


I have actually made some wooden planes. These are hollow and round sets that I made or getting ready to make. I did not make the set of match planes on the right, but plan on making a set sized for thicker wood.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Of course these would be no help to the OP, but I have also made smoothers and jack planes in the past.
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Nice.
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Wood Plane - 04/05/20
Originally Posted by scoony
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
And you could start slow by making your own planes...


I have actually made some wooden planes. These are hollow and round sets that I made or getting ready to make. I did not make the set of match planes on the right, but plan on making a set sized for thicker wood.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Of course these would be no help to the OP, but I have also made smoothers and jack planes in the past.

I have made a good many planes and have stumbled into piles of fantastic wood for the purpose over the years...
Posted By: wabigoon Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
The rough way I'd do it. Rip in two, run each half through my 16" planner, glue the halves back together.

Do what you like.
Posted By: hillestadj Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
You'll be time and money ahead if you find a cabinet shop to mill it down flat for you.

How green is it? I assume its plain sawn or live sawn? If that is the case and its not been seasoned properly it is going to check and cup like a mother fugger.
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Not green at all. It''s been seasoning in a warehouse for over a year.
Posted By: m_stevenson Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Originally Posted by High_Noon
Not green at all. It''s been seasoning in a warehouse for over a year.

1 year per inch of thickness is a good place to start for hardwood drying to usable moisture levels. At least that's what the big boys down on the corner told me.
Posted By: Hotrod_Lincoln Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
I'd suggest looking for a jointer plane if you intend to do the surface by hand, followed by a BIG orbital sander. When I was teaching auto body work we had one that used 8" diameter sanding discs, and it was great for making flat panels really flat. The longer the bed on the plane, the flatter the surface you're working with will end up. 100% Tung oil with no solvents added is my first choice for gunstocks and other woodworking projects.
Jerry
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Thanks Jerry. Duly noted.
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Originally Posted by m_stevenson
Originally Posted by High_Noon
Not green at all. It''s been seasoning in a warehouse for over a year.

1 year per inch of thickness is a good place to start for hardwood drying to usable moisture levels. At least that's what the big boys down on the corner told me.

My Bud said the slab has been drying for almost 3 years.
Posted By: Hotrod_Lincoln Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Just checked Ebay- - - - -several pages of jointer planes there, with prices anywhere from reasonable to outrageous.
Jerry
Posted By: hillestadj Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Originally Posted by High_Noon
Not green at all. It''s been seasoning in a warehouse for over a year.


Alright, I wouldn't assume that the MC is going to be where you want it but you pays your money, you takes your chances.

As far as planes go traditionally you'd be looking at a jack/fore, jointer, and smoother. Using Bailey pattern numbers and keeping it simple for you you'd be looking at a 5 (jack), 7 (jointer), 4 (smoother). Yes there are other sizes - those will be the more plentiful/cheaper iterations of each. If you are just looking to dimension and flatten and want to sand then dump the smoother and go with a jack and jointer. You could do both with just a No. 7 but you'll be in for a workout. No. 6 could sub in a pinch but its a tweener (big for a jack, small for a jointer). You'll want a cambered blade in the jack. Gently eased corners on the jointer to reduce tracks. Brands to look for are Stanley (Bailey pattern, Bedrocks will be $$$), Millers Falls Types 2-4 (Type 1's will be $$$ and type 5 will be junk) Millers Falls has different numbering system - in this case you'd want a No. 14, 22, and 9, Keen Kutter K or KK lines (K being a Bedrock Type 1-4 clone, KK being an Ohio Tools pattern), Record if you spot a cheapy. You'll need winding sticks and a primer on how to use them or you will likely create more problems than you fix.

If you've never used hand planes you're looking at a steep learning curve with the size and material (fiddleback) you chose. Interlocking grain is going to educate you quickly on the importance of sharp blades and you will struggle with tearout. Good luck.
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
hillestadj: The maple slab has been drying for 3 years. Thanks for the planer advice and recommendations. I've used planers before, but not well. I definitely need to watch a few videos and lots of practice. What are winding sticks?
Posted By: mark shubert Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Kevin, I have a couple of hand planes I'd loan you, if you'd like.
Probably dull, as I haven't used them since I got out of the trades ~ 26 years ago - but still usable.
Also have an electric plane (small) that would be helpful. Let me know.
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Thanks Mark. I will let you know, but it may be a little while before I get the slab. Please give the Warden my regards.
Posted By: K1500 Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Originally Posted by huntsman22
I'd find a local cabinet shop and run it thru their drum sander......


This, especially for wood with lots of figure and changing grain. For a finish, Watco brand Danish oil is a very nice, low maintenance ‘in the wood’ finish. Wipe on poly provides a bit more protection but does have a sheen to it.
Posted By: SuperCub Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Originally Posted by High_Noon
Perhaps we should start a dedicated "Tool" forum.


Great idea ......... We have a few members (past & present) that would certainly qualify for that forum.

I might even look into it myself. smile
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Originally Posted by High_Noon
hillestadj: The maple slab has been drying for 3 years. Thanks for the planer advice and recommendations. I've used planers before, but not well. I definitely need to watch a few videos and lots of practice. What are winding sticks?

Wood dried in a kiln is dried over a very short period of time (compared to air drying) and 4/4 red oak can be dried in just a few days (vacuum kiln). 8/4 bigleaf maple will take over a month in a typical kiln, but obviously well short of two years. Also, the move from wet side Oregon to west Texas will make a lot more water decide to leave. Or a move from eastern Oregon to CC Texas might leave the wood soaking up water. The drier it gets and the longer it stays that way the better.
Posted By: justsaymoe Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Originally Posted by johnn
For a table use a router box, made one for doing burls... works well and you can make it flat, which will be tricky with a power plane. One thing I think would be worthwhile is to invest in a proper bit. I used a 3/4 or 1 inch straight bit, but a planning bit has the cutters set on a steep angle and I think it would produce a smoother finish.



What he said. You will need to flatten each side to remove all of the twist of cupping that has occurred when drying. Getting both sides flat must be done before any smoothing or sanding. A protective finish is a must use wipe on poly. I used Arm-R-Seal on a table I recently finished.
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Art: Thanks for the info. This particular maple slab was air-dried, as are all my Bud’s slabs.

Moe: Thanks. I will be building a router box and sled at some point as I’ve got several projects that will require one. Hopefully not necessary on this project as my OR Bud is going to get it planed on a gigantic planer on his end, prior to shipment.
Posted By: scoony Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Originally Posted by High_Noon
hillestadj: . What are winding sticks?


Winding sticks are nothing more than two thin pieces of wood that are very straight. One will usually have some contrasting wood on the top edge. They are usually 1/2" - 3/4" thick x 2-3" wide and 24-36" long. You lay them on their edge, with one at both ends. You squat down and look along the top edges to see if they are both parallel. If not, you will see where the high side is and know where to hog off more material, usually with a scrub plane, or a #5 with a cambered blade. I keep 2 #5s under my bench. One with a blade set up for smoothing, the other with a cambered blade for fast material removal.

Other items can be used as winding sticks. Angle iron with one spray painted a different color would work in a pinch.
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Thanks scoony.
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Originally Posted by High_Noon
Art: Thanks for the info. This particular maple slab was air-dried, as are all my Bud’s slabs.

Moe: Thanks. I will be building a router box and sled at some point as I’ve got several projects that will require one. Hopefully not necessary on this project as my OR Bud is going to get it planed on a gigantic planer on his end, prior to shipment.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with air-dried lumber done properly. Kiln-drying does kill bugs but that is a minor issue in your case. By definition all it does is produce dry lumber faster "with an acceptable level of degrade."

One thing to watch out for since it is going to be planed in OR and shipped to you... Immediately upon arrival you need to put it on a flat surface, stickered, and put a LOT of weight on it for as long as possible that is to stop any movement as a result of the change in local conditions.
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Art: My OR Bud stores his slabs in a warehouse, where he puts runners down, then a slab, then more runners, then another slab, etc. in order to increase air-flow. He does put a lot of weight on top as well. Not sure what he uses for weight, but he said something about a bunch of fat chicks. I'm uncertain if the fat chicks are used for ballast or for some other activity he has planned.
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Originally Posted by High_Noon
Art: My OR Bud stores his slabs in a warehouse, where he puts runners down, then a slab, then more runners, then another slab, etc. in order to increase air-flow. He does put a lot of weight on top as well. Not sure what use uses for weight, but he said something about a bunch of fat chicks. I'm uncertain if the fat chicks are used for ballast or for some other activity he has planned.

The problem is not on his end... problem is on your end when the wood either takes on or loses water... even seasonally in a single location. If you cannot find enough fat chicks use your bullet casting lead stores!
wink
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
The problem is not on his end... problem is on your end when the wood either takes on or loses water... even seasonally in a single location. If you cannot find enough fat chicks use your bullet casting lead stores!
wink

ok. I will put it on the concrete floor in the garage w/ several runners and weight on top for a few a few months - or as long as it takes me to begin the project. But I draw the line at fat chicks.
Posted By: OldmanoftheSea Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
Kevin,
I went back and saw your measurements just now..
I checked the references in the shop but didn't find anything as helpful as the guys here have provided..
Another source for a large plane might be a high school or vocational school wood shop..

Re drying:
I saw a pretty good special on Japanese furniture crafting a year or two ago. They generally air dry but they will store wood for a very long time.. in the project in the special they were working with a piece that had been drying for 50 or eighty years... but that is for precision joinery with a focus on dimensional stability and perfect 90 degree angles..
If you have ever seen a peg fit chair leg get loose with age many time is is a function of the wood continuing to dry. Harder wood typically has smaller tubes (phlyem?) The smaller the tube the longer it takes to draw moisture out of it....as the wood dries it shrinks, but you probably know that
Good luck!
I look forward to photos of your project.
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Wood Plane - 04/06/20
lots of different "tubes" in the wood itself... phylem is not the name of any of them. Phloem is part of the living bark but not translatable to the wood itself because the cells generally die long before they become wood.
Posted By: scoony Re: Wood Plane - 04/07/20
Originally Posted by High_Noon

wink

ok. I will put it on the concrete floor in the garage w/ several runners and weight on top for a few a few months - or as long as it takes me to begin the project. But I draw the line at fat chicks. [/quote]

Just don't put it directly on the concrete. Put down some stickers to keep it off the floor.
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 04/07/20
Originally Posted by scoony
Just don't put it directly on the concrete. Put down some stickers to keep it off the floor.

I was planning on using several runners between the slab and concrete.
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
UPDATE:

I still haven't made it up to OR to pick up the slabs, what with all this ridiculous Kung Flu crap, but I have another question for another project:

What is a good type of planer to use on edges, i.e. the edges of a red oak plank .75" thick. I guess the old Stanley planers are some of the best.

Also, can anyone recommend a plane blade sharpening jig that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? While I was in Big D, I was working on a project for my folks that required a ~ 1" - 1.5" wood chisel and Dad's chisels are all beat to hell, so I had to sharpen one by hand. I started with "0" grit, b/c the edge was pretty beat up and the bevel was concave for some reason. I worked my way up to 1500 wet on a slab of glass, but it was all hand sharpening, which took well over an hour. I did a respectable job as it was shaving sharp, but it certainly could have been easier and faster with a jig of some sort. Near wore my thumb clean off trying to hold the angle steady.
Posted By: hookeye Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
I have an old planer like new in box. Will try to dig it up, might be an old Stanley.

Its ether in my garage or the storage unit. My dad bought it.

Am under the weather so wont go looking til maybe tomorrow
Posted By: rem141r Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
have you considered one of these?




Power Planer
Posted By: wabigoon Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
I missed wither is is dry. or not?

That wide a board might warp?

I'd think about cutting kerfs on the underside, they would not have to run clear to the end, and show.
Posted By: Orion2000 Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
For a "one off" project, I will stick with my original suggestion. Find a cabinet shop. Have them run in through their power drum sander(s) until suitably flat and smooth. Will be MUCH easier and less cost to boot...
Posted By: 12344mag Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
Originally Posted by High_Noon
UPDATE:

I still haven't made it up to OR to pick up the slabs, what with all this ridiculous Kung Flu crap, but I have another question for another project:

What is a good type of planer to use on edges, i.e. the edges of a red oak plank .75" thick. I guess the old Stanley planers are some of the best.

Also, can anyone recommend a plane blade sharpening jig that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? While I was in Big D, I was working on a project for my folks that required a ~ 1" - 1.5" wood chisel and Dad's chisels are all beat to hell, so I had to sharpen one by hand. I started with "0" grit, b/c the edge was pretty beat up and the bevel was concave for some reason. I worked my way up to 1500 wet on a slab of glass, but it was all hand sharpening, which took well over an hour. I did a respectable job as it was shaving sharp, but it certainly could have been easier and faster with a jig of some sort. Near wore my thumb clean off trying to hold the angle steady.



Jointer.
Posted By: byron Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
Originally Posted by High_Noon
UPDATE:

I still haven't made it up to OR to pick up the slabs, what with all this ridiculous Kung Flu crap, but I have another question for another project:

What is a good type of planer to use on edges, i.e. the edges of a red oak plank .75" thick. I guess the old Stanley planers are some of the best.

Also, can anyone recommend a plane blade sharpening jig that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? While I was in Big D, I was working on a project for my folks that required a ~ 1" - 1.5" wood chisel and Dad's chisels are all beat to hell, so I had to sharpen one by hand. I started with "0" grit, b/c the edge was pretty beat up and the bevel was concave for some reason. I worked my way up to 1500 wet on a slab of glass, but it was all hand sharpening, which took well over an hour. I did a respectable job as it was shaving sharp, but it certainly could have been easier and faster with a jig of some sort. Near wore my thumb clean off trying to hold the angle steady.



High Noon, If you were going to come through Wyoming a friend of mine has a planer that would do that job for ya.
Posted By: kingston Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
Originally Posted by huntsman22
I'd find a local cabinet shop and run it thru their drum sander......


^^^This^^^ or a wide belt.

Your question is sort of like, "I need to dig a small foundation, can anyone recommend a good shovel and pick axe."

That said, a Stanley 220 and a No.4 are handy to have around.
Posted By: kingston Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
Originally Posted by High_Noon
UPDATE:

I still haven't made it up to OR to pick up the slabs, what with all this ridiculous Kung Flu crap, but I have another question for another project:

What is a good type of planer to use on edges, i.e. the edges of a red oak plank .75" thick. I guess the old Stanley planers are some of the best.


No.7 Jointer

I've been using this Veritas guide for 20 years.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/sho...1-veritas-sharpening-system?item=05M0210
Posted By: hillestadj Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
Originally Posted by kingston
Originally Posted by High_Noon
UPDATE:

I still haven't made it up to OR to pick up the slabs, what with all this ridiculous Kung Flu crap, but I have another question for another project:

What is a good type of planer to use on edges, i.e. the edges of a red oak plank .75" thick. I guess the old Stanley planers are some of the best.


No.7 Jointer

I've been using this Veritas guide for 20 years.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/sho...1-veritas-sharpening-system?item=05M0210


That Veritas guide is good to go if you don't want to freehand. However, if you're not making a hobby of this pick up an Eclipse knock off for about $15, it'll get you where you need to go.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/sho...rgW5x8lUhSQvtyk2MySq7x6BV8xoCrOoQAvD_BwE
Posted By: SuperCub Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
Originally Posted by Borchardt
Wasn't the de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito a wood plane?


I was hoping to see some of those. smile
Posted By: Kellywk Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
You can make up a jig tray to use a router as a jointer to get large areas flat. Works well if you take your time and are careful

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bm9SDuWIAk0
Posted By: Sheister Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
Figured maple requires a VERY sharp blade to avoid tear out if using a planer- hand or powered... I use a number of different planes on my wood projects but a good Stanley #7 and a Smoothing or Jointer plane would do what you want to do... For doing edges, especially on figured wood, I use a Stanley low angle block plane to start with and decide which of my planes will work best for the finish work.... I have a pretty good collection of planes that I use regularly ...

If you are going to continue doing projects like this it will be worthwhile to invest in some Japanese waterstones for sharpening them and a Veritas angle tool or something similar to get them really sharp. With the Veritas, you start at one angle to get the bevel formed on several different grits, then you turn a knob and add a few degrees to the bevel tool to create the secondary bevel (edge). With the good King stones or equal quality stones, your edge will look like a mirror when you get done and be shaving sharp...
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
Thanks fellers.

What I’m looking for now is a recommendation on the type of plane used for dressing the edge of a red oak board, ~ ¾” thick. My knowledge regarding different plane types and their specific usage is limited. For example, I understand that there are bevel up and bevel down planes, knuckle planes, edge trimmers, low-angle bock planes, thumb planes, jack planes, roughing, flattening and smoothing planes, etc., but I am not sure what type of plane I should find for my intended usage. Perhaps a Stanley 60 ½ would be a good choice.

hookeye: Thanks.

Rem141r: Yes, I have considered several power planes but it will be awhile until I’m able to make it up to OR, so I don’t really need one at the moment. Shipping is cost-prohibitive anyway.

Wabi: slabs have been air-dried for several years, but my latest inquiry is does not involve the big slabs. I’m looking for advice on a smaller plane I can use for dressing the edges of boards, & sharpening jig recommendations.

Orion2000: ditto

bryon: Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind.

kingston: Thanks. The 220 might be just the thing I need. & the Veritas guide looks good.

hillestadj: Thanks, looks good as well.

Kellywk: Thanks. That jig looks good.

Sheister: Your low-angle block plane recommendation is what I determined I probably need, hence my Stanley 60 ½ idea. I do have a good collection of stones, but I have been meaning to find a few Jap water stones. I have looked at the King stones. Thanks.
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
So, right now, it's between a Stanley 60 ½ or a 220. Gotta' figure out which one would be best.
Posted By: wabigoon Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
Make sure it's sharp, and set right!
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
Yessir.
Posted By: RJY66 Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
I rigged up something similar to this but not as nice when I made a "farm house table" a few years ago. I'm not a real wood worker and it got way better results than I could have with hand tools.....

Posted By: Western_Juniper Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
If you're not already a master with a hand plane, a huge slab of rock-hard figured maple is a hopeless place to begin. I can't advise on a better method having had no experience finishing large slabs.

On the other hand, if you are interested in getting a hand plane and some skill with it, I can recommend the video(s) by David Charlesworth produced for Lie-Nieldsen. He covers the basic skills, beginning with how to sharpen the plane blade. The Stanley you mentioned is fine indeed, but the performance is all in the blade and its sharpness and you cannot just purchase that. You will need to learn to put a good edge on it. The Charlesworth video is the best detailed explanation of how and why. I can also recommend the book Sharpening by Leonard Lee. While it doesn't offer as thorough an explanation of sharpening plane blades as the Charlesworth video, it covers all kinds of tools and goes into more technical theory. The Charlesworth video is totall practical with an casual explanation of why, but no scanning electron microscope images of the blade edge or martensite crystalization and so on.
Posted By: Sheister Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
Originally Posted by High_Noon
Thanks fellers.

What I’m looking for now is a recommendation on the type of plane used for dressing the edge of a red oak board, ~ ¾” thick. My knowledge regarding different plane types and their specific usage is limited. For example, I understand that there are bevel up and bevel down planes, knuckle planes, edge trimmers, low-angle bock planes, thumb planes, jack planes, roughing, flattening and smoothing planes, etc., but I am not sure what type of plane I should find for my intended usage. Perhaps a Stanley 60 ½ would be a good choice.

hookeye: Thanks.

Rem141r: Yes, I have considered several power planes but it will be awhile until I’m able to make it up to OR, so I don’t really need one at the moment. Shipping is cost-prohibitive anyway.

Wabi: slabs have been air-dried for several years, but my latest inquiry is does not involve the big slabs. I’m looking for advice on a smaller plane I can use for dressing the edges of boards, & sharpening jig recommendations.

Orion2000: ditto

bryon: Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind.

kingston: Thanks. The 220 might be just the thing I need. & the Veritas guide looks good.

hillestadj: Thanks, looks good as well.

Kellywk: Thanks. That jig looks good.

Sheister: Your low-angle block plane recommendation is what I determined I probably need, hence my Stanley 60 ½ idea. I do have a good collection of stones, but I have been meaning to find a few Jap water stones. I have looked at the King stones. Thanks


What I've found is that the type of plane is secondary to how sharp the blade is. Another factor is how you use a plane when flattening a piece... Especially with figured wood and very hard wood like oak and black walnut you should be using shearing cuts instead of plow cuts... this will cut down on tear out and leave a clean surface more often than plowing through the wood and possibly being caught by the grain and stopping in the middle of a stroke.... Practice on a scrap piece if you can until you feel the cut and get the depth adjusted just right before starting in on an expensive or special piece of wood...
My Stanley 60 1/2 (and several older versions of it that I rescued) gets a lot of work, but only for roughing edges. Just not suitable for a long, flat surface and especially on figured wood. In a case like that, you need enough mass to be able to get it moving through the surface cut and a long enough shoe to keep it flat relative to the rest of the surface.
At times what really works great is a large cabinet scraper like a Stanley #80 . But then you need to learn how to sharpen a cabinet scraper blade, which is completely different than sharpening a plane/chisel blade...

Bob
Posted By: scoony Re: Wood Plane - 08/22/21
The Stanleys you're looking at are small block planes and will work well for that task if you're just cleaning the edges up. If you were preparing an edge for glue up, those would be the last choice, as you would need a #7 or #8. The block planes are easy to set up and have a shorter learning curve.

For flattening the slabs, I recently built a pair of end tables with walnut slabs. I actually flattened one face with a scrub plane and jointer plane, but when looking at the next 3 faces, I said screw it and built a router-planer jig and finished up flattening them pretty quickly. I cleaned them up with hand planes to minimize sanding, but once you flatten it with a router, you can sand them smooth.

Simple jig.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

End Product

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

For a one-off project, I would look at having it done at a shop. Figured maple can be difficult to work.
Posted By: MtnBoomer Re: Wood Plane - 08/23/21
Originally Posted by scoony
The Stanleys you're looking at are small block planes and will work well for that task if you're just cleaning the edges up. If you were preparing an edge for glue up, those would be the last choice, as you would need a #7 or #8. The block planes are easy to set up and have a shorter learning curve.

For flattening the slabs, I recently built a pair of end tables with walnut slabs. I actually flattened one face with a scrub plane and jointer plane, but when looking at the next 3 faces, I said screw it and built a router-planer jig and finished up flattening them pretty quickly. I cleaned them up with hand planes to minimize sanding, but once you flatten it with a router, you can sand them smooth.

Simple jig.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

End Product

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

For a one-off project, I would look at having it done at a shop. Figured maple can be difficult to work.

Scoony to the rescue...



Has there been refrence to the Spruce Goose? Don't do what they did.
Posted By: Rustyzipper Re: Wood Plane - 08/23/21
Some nice projects here. Be Well, RZ.
Posted By: Texczech Re: Wood Plane - 08/23/21
Originally Posted by scoony

Simple jig.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

End Product

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com].

Fine job sir, those are beautiful!
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 08/23/21
scoony: Beautiful work. What did you use for a finish?
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 08/23/21
Western_Juniper: Thanks, I'll take a look at those videos. I'm sure they'll be helpful.

Sheister: I'm sure you're right, sharp tools are necessary for good results, not only that, but they're safer as well. I've got a pretty good hand for sharpening, so I'm not worried about that, but it will probably take a bit of practice to use the sharpening jig since it will be new to me.
Posted By: scoony Re: Wood Plane - 08/23/21
Originally Posted by High_Noon
scoony: Beautiful work. What did you use for a finish?


For those tables, I used a couple coats of Minwax Antique oil followed by a few coats of rattle can varnish sprayed on.

I use a lot of the Antique oil as a base as I like the amber tone it provides on cherry and walnut. For the top coat, I used Varthane oil based Varnish.
I have tried other more expensive finishes in the past, but found that Varthane varnish works well. It goes on easily, sands between coats easily and leaves a really durable finish. This has become my go-to finish for simple walnut projects.
Posted By: High_Noon Re: Wood Plane - 08/23/21
scoony: Thankyousir.
Posted By: kingston Re: Wood Plane - 08/23/21
Originally Posted by scoony
The Stanleys you're looking at are small block planes and will work well for that task if you're just cleaning the edges up. If you were preparing an edge for glue up, those would be the last choice, as you would need a #7 or #8. The block planes are easy to set up and have a shorter learning curve.

For flattening the slabs, I recently built a pair of end tables with walnut slabs. I actually flattened one face with a scrub plane and jointer plane, but when looking at the next 3 faces, I said screw it and built a router-planer jig and finished up flattening them pretty quickly. I cleaned them up with hand planes to minimize sanding, but once you flatten it with a router, you can sand them smooth.

Simple jig.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

End Product

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

For a one-off project, I would look at having it done at a shop. Figured maple can be difficult to work.


Those tops are gorgeous. Working with a scrub plane is a joy. It's amazing how much material you can remove quickly. I've most frequently used one to replicate hand hewn timbers. I have a pair of 24" Crescent direct drive planers for surfacing. :-))
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