This is a really well done mini-series

I haven't read the books that it's based on but I'd be curious to know how close it sticks to original stories.

It doesn't show the Clinton era FBI and ATF in a good light. At all.

So you're saying the people involved in this show are going to hang themselves?

I haven't seen the series yet. I will check it out.

I was in Billings during the Freemen stand off in Jordan, Mt, what a clusterfug.

The ATF , FBI learned a lesson from Waco and didn't try the same heavy handed tactics against the Freemen. Janet Reno and the Clintons were out of control and running amuck at the time......

The funniest thing I remember from it was the reporters complaining about the accommodations in Jordan, they were hating life... hahahaha

I believe a car load of reporters skidded off a snowy road and crashed, several hurt and If I remember correct someone died I believe? They were headed to Lincoln to cover the capture of Uni-bomber.
Good times ... LOL

A high school chum ( reenacting bud) was the main legal councel that apparently was instrumental in diffusing that Freemen situation. An interesting and controversial individual to say the least.

I got thru the first episode - already has the sniper at Ruby Ridge and doesn't make him out to be a hero

I don't see how they could without making it pure fiction.

Yep...its not possible to show them in a good light...

That whole deal was a feasibility study too..." Can we do this and get away with it?"


The answer was 'no'...but they got away with the Oklahoma City Bombing...

I’m watching it. The government is definitely portrayed as incompetent/unethical.

I see no reason to limit that perception of how things are done to the Clinton Administration. The recent Russian Collusion fiasco shows things haven’t changed much.

Janet Reno fiasco epic-fail.

There's no good light to show.

She did a lot of damage during her tenure.

In the end, Parkinson's got her at 78.

One common thread in all the recent dark history of the FBI...Louis Freeh. You don't need to go to any tinfoil brigade websites for info. Just go to Wikipedia and "Louis Freeh career". It's all there by a left leaning resource, Waco, Ruby Ridge, Khobar Towers, Lockerbie, Freemen, etc etc. This guy is an evil son of a bitch.

Who else cheered when that big bald headed dude came down the hall with the AR and ran those government bastards back out onto the damned roof and then shot them off of it?

Remember the T shirt that came out after the Freeman deal that read "At Least Our Cows Aren't Crazy" in reference to Montana having psycho bombers and militia men "run amok" but no mad cow disease?

Crazy times.

Add in the Oklahoma bombing and things were pretty screwed up for constitutionally minded Americans.

...And lets not forget Ruby Ridge. What a travesty of abject Tyranny from the get go.

That hasn't stopped the entertainment industry in the past.

My point was that it was nice to see a show that didn't pull any punches.

The Linda Thompson vids were all I needed to see.

I liked it

The Unibomber is a good one to watch as well

I'm not familiar with those.

If you like the Unabomber series you should check out the documentary that has his recordings and they interview his neighbors.

Through first two episodes. Really enjoying so far. Will watch more tonight.

We watched it yesterday, my daughter goes what's Waco? So tv time for all of us..

If she hasn't watched American Experience: Ruby Ridge I highly recommend that as well.

It was produced by PBS.

We thought it was interesting, If he had not demanded his " manifesto" be published he might still be mailing letters, no one seemed to have a clue who that psycho was

Thanks Ghost.

I had seen those. I think they used to sell them at gun shows.

The series I mentioned in the OP is a bit more granular.

We liked the docu drama but it is almost sympathetic toward ol' Ted.

Check out Unabomber In His Own Words.

He seemed to be an elitist, liberal, fugking a-hole and nothing else.

Add in "evil" and it sounds almost realistic.

Isn't she the militia chick who OD'd a few years ago?

Of course, I guess she could be just another notch on the ol' Clinton gun belt.

Never saw that video before,thanks for posting.

If that Waco documentary The Big Lie is even half factual the ATF was way more incompetent than I knew.

The vid makes it look like the ATFagents got scared and fired on their own men.

The series did a good job of illustrating how inept and politically driven were both the ATF and the FBI HRT and their leadership. Another episode highlighting the testimony by the agents and victims before congress and the whitewashing of govt. responsibility and overreach would have been good.

Both the FBI and BATFE remain agencies that are unnecessary political tools that protect and serve only themselves and their political handlers.


mike r

The last part about the assault and the fire was tough to watch.

Anyone remember being fed "weapons of mass destruction?" the goverment list of lies is very very long..

Just as long as the list of government lies is the list of times they've got away with it and no one was held accountable. Remember that the next time someone tells you about indictments coming for FISA warrants or the Russian collision frame up or any other thing the government does.

Solzhenitsyn was right. There's really only one way to hold government officials accountable and they didn't do it either.

I think I watched that one, but need to let her know. She’s real
Interested in this stuff, I told her about Jim jones as well.

I watched it when it originally aired on Paramount and it shocked me the Branch Davidians were giving a pretty favorable view.

ATF and FBI need to be dissolved.

I lived up there when things started getting sporty.

Moved away before the standoff.

Person that was killed was an FBI agent that had recently come into the country from the upper midwest, I believe. Was driving fast on the Brusett road and I think a washboard section. Went off the road, rolled, got ejected through a fence.

A friend came found him. Was in tough shape and fairly apparent he wasn't going to make it.

A lot of reporter types slid off and got stuck. Got to the point where locals got hired just to drive reporters etc around. The local garage made a killing getting outfits unstuck and the bars made out like no tomorrow.

I’m sure her seat in Hell is secure. Add the kidnapping of Elian Gonzales by a DOJ SWAT team and his forcible return to Communist Cuba.

There’s not enough time in eternity for Reno to pay for her crimes.

When that whole fiasco started the Freeman or at least some of them were holed up in a cabin in the Bull Mountains by Roundup. The cabin was for sale a year or so ago.

Those were Border Patrol Agents.

Buncha a-holes.

Bump. Watching it now. Definitely worth watching

LOL! Feds...am I right?

BORTAC guys I assume?

Watched it last night. I was very surprised that they cast FBI and ATF leadership in such unfavorable light. Lots of pandering for political gain, human lives be damned, let alone justice.

Did the video of the initial assault ever come to light?

Somebody should have been jailed for suppression/destruction of evidence if not.

This program portrayed Lon Horiuchi at Waco begging for the chance to murder again. That SOB should have been hung for Vicki Weaver. Failing successful prosecution, he certainly should have been removed from the FBI for his murderous mindset.

I was amused at the scene when Koresh was able to determine the legality of a handgun purchase, and if it came from a gun show, just by observing an "altered trigger".

I also noticed that the film portrayed no automatic weapons in the hands of the Davidians. Am I correct that they never found any illegal weapons in the compound after it burned?

And there was something about an NFA item was legal in Texas with a $25 license? I did not really catch the reference, but I assume it was another faux pas on the part of the film makers.

Started watching this last night.

Great so far.

Most of the pictures are BORTAC but lots of agents were involved.

IS,

I pondered the same things.

Not sure if some of that stuff is accurate or not.

LMFAO...

An FBI agent did die in the Freeman standoff, but drinking and driving was the cause.

My kinda party.

You call that idiot a "sniper". Wasn't a "hero", nor a sniper...

Shoot Viki Weaver through the head while she is holding a baby in her living room...... that is not sniping, that is murder.

I don't know about after it burned but photos of "assault" type rifles in their armaments taken prior to the raid showed some with ATF legal (at the time) "HellFire" bump-fire trigger gizmos. Also, as I recall, some practice "Dummy" hand grenades, too.

From what I remember the ATF was originally going after a .50 cal. rifle (Barrett ?) they claimed was an NFA item but in reality was semi auto or a bolt gun. The story from them seemed to "change" over time, but who knows how much of that was official or just ignorance on the medias part. Just like now, they (MSM) were solid with the dems and clinton admin.

Not a mini-series like Waco but there is an actual documentary on NetFlix titled Wild, Wild, Country.

It's pretty fuggin' wild. LOL.

Sniping is murder.

Geesus! That brings back memories.

My family had a friend who was a diamond broker out of Vegas that got into that cult and bought one of the Bhagwans' Rolls Royce's. The guy was a little out there but had money to burn so..... and my last year in college had a couple chicks and their boy friend live across the ally from my apartment. They worked at a strip bar in Boulder, Co. and would sun bathe naked in the back yard. My apartment was on the second floor and the deck faced the backyard so life was good... they were Bhagwanny's too, wore nothing but the "colors of the setting sun" when they wore clothes and had pics of their guru plastered in every window in the house, even on the steering wheel of their car. Strange times.

Hahaha.

Was before my time so I had never heard of the story before.

Fugkin' nuts.

A bad deal, but people forget their son Sam was the first to be shot when the family dog sniffed out the agents hiding in the weeds. If I remember correctly the agents shot the dog when it started barking and Sam shot off a round and ran back to the house. Didn't make it, shot in the back and died while his parents watched, not able to help.

I was glad to see the WACO series preface the whole story with the telling of Ruby Ridge.

That scene with Vicki Weaver laying on the cabin floor was chilling.

I didn't know they were strippers until I went to the club to celebrate the last day of classes. Sitting there watching the opening parade of babes and here comes my neighbor strutting her stuff, with cult approved red panties. She recognized me sitting there with a stupid grin on my face, said hi and waived. Suffice to say I got some surprised looks from my buddies.

From what I read in after action reporting, the snipers were originally targeting Kevin Harris but at the shot he either moved or Vicky stumbled in front of him. Sucked either way. To add to the media hype at the time, the camera angles they had of Randy W. during the trial showed him as being "taller", more imposing. A few years after it was all over, I was flying down to SLC from Kalispell and Randy Weaver was on the flight. If anything he looked about as imposing as Barney Fife. The whole thing had obviously taken a horrendous toll on the man.

I’ll put it on my list, sounds like a must watch.

I would just get mad if I watched it. Do not need to be mad right now, so will pass.

Here are some pictures of the Freeman standoff.
https://billingsgazette.com/news/st...34ac6-ada1-54ff-affa-2313a7baecc6.html#1

To heck with google. When I want to know what to watch next on Netflix, I go to Clark's/Travis'/Dave's profile page and then click "forum posts" and then Ctrl+F "Netflix". I keep up to date without all that Google crap. Thanks deflave-a-flave.

To be fair, it's Travis that makes all the good picks.

Clarke and Dave are kinda out there.



deflave

This is true.


This is even more true.

Saw them first hand, that was quiet the operation. You drive through their AO and the security would follow you out of town.

Are you wearing a pink shirt right now?

There’s a Amazon Prime Waco documentary with real footage that is pretty amazing. Ol Chuckie Schumer stars in it. He’s rude as h.ell to the defense lawyers. f.uck tard!

I'll look for that one.

I’m still waiting for all the illegal fully automatic weapons that the branch Daviidians had. I guess they must have disappeared in the fire. Ed k

"FBI agent R.Craig told jurors that military vehicles used by the F.B.I.
in the Branch Davidian operation included seven Bradley armored
personnel carriers, four 54-ton combat engineering vehicles,
two M-1 Abrams battle tanks, and tracked recovery vehicle."

.. those vehicles were manned by (ATF) agents who had received training
from US Special Forces personnel at Fort Bragg, NC.
This was done to get around the prohibition of US military forces
beng involved in police actions in the US.

Add to that the UH-1s and OH58s buzzing the Compound.

Army officers Colonel Gerald Boykin, and his superior,
Gen. Peter J. Schoomaker, the head of Special Forces at Fort Bragg,
did meet with Janet Reno, where they agreed to provide and have
present, personnel to deliver tactical assistance to FBI.

We went by there a few days before the FBI burnt those people out. There were many officers there then.

Drones will never be used in America against American citizens.

I was militia involved in Montana during the Freemen/ Kaczynski events as well as when the Waco tragedy took place.
There were videos passed around two weeks after Waco within some militia groups that appeared to show them using the tanks to fire bomb the underground bunkers.

Any mention of that in this series?

Most of what was shown on the videos we had didn't start showing up on the media for 10 or 12 years after the fact.

For me, the Montana Freemen and the Kaczynski stunts were nothing but well laid PR propaganda events for the ATF and FBI to help rebuild their reputations after their Ruby Ridge and Waco disasters.

During the Freemen standoff the media was directed to every radical crack pot idiot claiming to be involved in any sorta militia group. They grandstanded these idiots with national TV interviews for weeks attempting to give the general public a twisted view of what our nations militia groups are all about.

They immediately followed up with arresting Kaczynski like the icing on the perfect cake.

All well laid plans, all super hyped BS.

More like burned them in. What those jack boot thugs did was murder and should have been treated as such.

Finished the last episode last night....what a cluster f...... !!!!!

Pretty solid summation.

Thanks for the heads up Travis. We just finished watching Ozark, and we're looking for a new show to watch. I'm on it this evening!

Ron

Ozark is good too.

That Marty handles stress pretty well.

I was hooked from the first episode. Great writing and acting.

Ron

If they could save just one child. Ed k

You’ve had a change of heart? You knocked Ozark in the past because of the gay scenes. Must have reduced your gay-dar....

Although I don’t recall any homo , errr I mean SACharlie and Leroy Bean scenes in Season 3.

Do you want me to cheer for the aggressive butt-fugking scenes?

No it was not caused by d&d.

Guy rolled his outfit early that morning when he was driving out to start work. Maybe he was manning the road block? That I do not know.

I believe it was a patch of washboard road that got the better of him driving too fast. Buddy came across the wreck as he was out making the rounds checking on things on his farm.

Don't believe he had been onsite for long. My recollection is that he had just cycled in from Iowa or MN maybe.

Jan. 2000 -
[.. "In the last two months, three months, we've learned more about what happened than we did in the preceding six and a half years," says Michael Caddell, a Houston attorney representing survivors and family members of the Branch Davidians in their suit against the government.

The Pentagon has acknowledged that 10 members of the secret Delta team visited Waco to provide advice during the siege. They were present in teams of three, each team including a technician, a communications specialist and an expert in tactics and weapons..

But the communications specialist, whose name is not given in the deposition, says that the operatons expert showed up after the fire on April 19 looking "hung over, just kind of red-eyed."

"The conversation was that he had gone out drinking and had been up most of the night and had just gone to bed ... and when he came out, all this had happened," the communications specialist testified...

Michael Caddell, the attorney for the Branch Davidians, released the testimony Thursday but said he found it hard to believe. "To think that a guy as highly trained as that and considered one of our nation's best somehow goes out and gets drunk and sleeps through the whole show, that is just not credible. Remember that was Sunday night in Waco."..]

16 yo daughter got through about 4 episodes last night. Asked me when I walked in if this crap really happened.

She was mortified/shocked. I explained this is why there is a group of Americans that despise the ATF.

Nah lol

I remember a pretty good media and government cover up at the time, so the public wasn't very outraged. Same holds true for Ruby Ridge, that's another really good documentary your daughter should watch. I was young and more interested in chasing tail at the time, but understanding now what happened in both those cases is disturbing.

If the netflix shocked her have her watch Waco The Big Lie and Waco the Big Lie II by Linda Thompson. Link on this thread. 5 survivors were sentenced to 40 years, 1 got 20 years,1 got 15 years and 1 got 5 years. Eight convicted defendants would serve 240 years, an average of 30 years each and were sentenced to pay 1.2 million each in restitution to the FBI and ATF. The original search warrant was based on the testimony of Marc Breault who "partcipated in firearm shooting exercises" and "stood guard with a loaded weapon". Brault is legally blind. .

Just watched it. If anywhere near realistic, pretty messed up from every angle.

Caught a podcast with a fbi guy that was there....


It’s not real according to him.


Fieldcraft Survival. Ep 181.

Waco is a national disgrace. watching CSPAN during the congressional investigation/ cover up would turn a minuteman into an anarchist.


mike r

He may or may not be a company man.

I forget his examples.

But he what was false about the Netflix.


I don’t know him from Adams house cat. Just listening to the podcast.

I'll have to check it out.

they did it for the children remember. fing feds.

Just happened to go by there to visit a friend in Cleburne a few days before they stormed the place.

I’d be interested in your opinion of Netflix vs the podcast is.

what pizzes me off to this day is i believe that dog was a golden retriever, not hardly any risk

FBI leadership onsite had every reason and opportunity to just back off and do siege management. They chose to be hard-chargers. Hell, their premise wasn't even sound. They E-mbellished.

Phugking morons.

I lived in Austin at the time and there were several local people who had news shows on PBS who covered Waco daily including Alex Jones who was just starting out. Everything they reported turned out to true:

1) The ATF knew David K. and could have arrested him at any time when he was out of the compound.
2) The ATF was about to become part of another agency and wasn't happy about it. They decided to show everybody how they could take names and kick ass.
3) The first shot was fired by an ATF who jumped out of the back of a horse trailer with his pistol drawn and shot himself in the foot. Then the fun started and showed how inept the ATF really was.
4) Ron Hairyhootchie was one of the snipers.
5) The Feds (looked like the military) were flying helicopters over the compound shooting at the people in the compound. The tanks were provided by the military,
6) Some Branch Davidians were shot at when they tried to leave the compound.
7) The Feds blew up a silo that women and children hiding in killing then all.
8) I knew one of the state officials who investigated the "fire" after the Feds burned the compound to the ground and he was very upset at what he found. He said it was a crime scene not a fire.