I recently bought a Marlin 1895, current production and noticed the stock doesn't seem to have the deep oil finish like my older JM stamped 1894's. I'd like to put a couple of additional coats to give it a richer look and better protection. What should I use?

I’ve had good luck on some early ‘50’s vintage Remingtons by rubbing them down with boiled linseed oil (BLO), letting them sit for 15 minutes or so, then buffing well with an old t-shirt. Do the same for a couple or three days. It really brought back some “depth” in the finish.

Spray some Rem Oil directly on the stock or on a cloth and get the wood wet with it. Let it stand in the corner for a couple of days then rub it with a soft cloth to dry it. I usually put it away then and repeat the next couple of times I shoot it. Probably violating some sacred law of gunstock maintenance but it's worked very well for years for me.

While the whole time slowly attacking the cellulose in the wood....

Kind of amazing, ain't it?

Years ago I had a hunting buddy who was a GREAT hunter, but didn't know much about rifles. His main rifle was a "sporterized" South American Mauser .30-06 he'd bought through the mail while he was still in high school.

He knew I did some "gun work," and one year asked if I could look at his .30-06, as it had gotten "a little loose." I asked what he meant by that, and he couldn't really explain it, so I told him to bring it by.

Turned out that even with the action screws totally tight, the stock WAS a little loose. I asked how long it had been that way, and he said the past year or so. He couldn't understand it, because he took very good care of his rifle, giving the stock another coat of oil every year. I asked what kind of oil, and he said 3-in-1.

I managed to save the stock with an epoxy bedding job, and told him to quit oiling it.

Unless the guns in question are really "old", like early 20th century or earlier, I doubt they have an oil finish. Probably some form of varnish. Remember, manufacturers were in it to make a profit, and those guns were never intended to be collector items, just to be sold through normal retail to hunters, etc., at an affordable price.

Even back in the days of "oil", from what I've read it appears that Winchester and Marlin just dunked the stocks in a vat of oil, perhaps after staining. They certainly weren't hand rubbed by master craftsmen. Production costs have always been a major consideration, as with any manufactured product.

Paul

try a coat or 4 of renaissance wax. what Paul39 says about the new gun finishes. wax is the best bet.and it can even go on the metal.

Avoid BLO like the plague is my humble opinion. I would use Pro Custom Oil, a combination of urethane and tung oil. I'm not sure what Marlin would have used, maybe poly or lacquer, but you can put gunstock oil on top of those. However, the reverse isn't true.
Phil

Why avoid BLO if one simply wants to shine up the finish? It doesn’t build up a finish, etc. I just know how well it’s worked for me on several Remington rifles built between ‘45 and ‘55 and on whatever finish they used before they went to their RKW finish

Now if you want to go with a completely new finish, have at it with a urethane mix..I like Permalyn and Permalyn filler (VERY thin right from the can)

BLO is the industry dregs. Inhibitors are added for shelf life, driers are added so it might actually cure some day, solvents are added to reduce viscosity.

It has no place on any firearm. Even if you are looking to add it to old military arms. Go to an art or paint store and get fresh oil in a tiny container and replace with fresh regularly. More problems are caused by old garbage oils than just about anything else in the finish world.

Permalyn is a polyurethane, which is very different from urethane. It is a very average finish geared heavily toward ease of use. It is far superior to BLO for any and every application. They sell it in quart bottles, which is an insane amount for virtually any occasional stock maker to use before the oil gets old. Using any old finish is a recipe for a serious PITA.

Old West Snake Oil Formula #2 here on my stocks.

What he said!!

That rifle has a 15 second polyurethane (or some other thane) sprayed on finish. No oil is going to penetrate the plastic finish.
If you do strip it to bare wood, BLO is not your friend even if it looks good early on.
Everyone has their pet finish and mine is pure tung oil.

Pro Custom oil doesn't have to penetrate. Just scuff the poly, then add the Pro Custom oil. Keep adding until you get the sheen you want or go all the way to glossy and rub it down with pumice stone, then rottenstone to get the sheen desired.

On some antique rifles I am replacing the wood, I put down a few coats of Pro Custom oil first, then orange shellac to get the proper color, the back to Pro Custom oil to finish up. Like WTF said, everyone has their preferences for oil. I use Pro Custom oil for hunting rifles but for high dollar rifles I use pure tung oil that has been polymerized so it drys fairly fast. I might not live long enough of unpolymerized tung oil to dry. I wouldn't use BLO if you were holding a gun on me.
Phil

https://www.sutherlandwelles.com/shop

That's the polymerized tung oil I use. Great stuff
Phil

I'd go with the Renaissance WAX technique. As many coats as you desire. It gets better with numerous coats.

If you don't like it, sitka deer can lend you some 0000 steel wool to make it better.

You do realize "pure tung oil" does not have to have any tung oil in it, right?

Tung, in service, is virtually identical to linseed oil and used interchangeably. Lots of people are allergic to tung nuts so it is not used as food. That means it all goes into paint and chemicals while the best linseed oil goes into food...

So how do you apply "polymerized" oil?

Suppose they mean "polymerizing" oil?

It is polymerized according to their website. I think in involves boiling it at a certain temperature for a certain amount of time. It dries fairly fast, I can usually get two coats in a day especially if I set the stock in the sun for a little while. I put in on with my fingers and rub it with the heel of my hand.
Phil

Came across a quart of H.W. Kuhn's WonderOil.

Stuff works great!

I think you're getting pure tung oil mixed up with tung oil finish.

Polymerization is the process of curing. If it is polymerized it is cured. Hard to apply already cured oil.

The temperature thing was done until chemical driers were discovered... general heavy metals...

Yes, and no on tung oil versus tung oil finish. Originally pure tung oil used to have to be tung oil... I have been told the new requirement is the ingredients list must state it is linseed oil.

That makes absolutely no sense. Hopes 100% Pure Tung Oil.... down at the local True Value. No linseed.

Tung oil has to be applied to bare wood so it wouldn't be applicable for what the OP wants.

I have had good results on about four rifles recently going over the finish with alkanet oil. This is a mix of turpentine, ground alkanet root, and linseed or tung oil. It has penetrated the finish on two Winchesters, an Iver Johnson and a Miroku stock. It enhances the grain and makes the wood look much better.

Use about 25% Oil food grade or art grade linseed or tung oil, these can be polymirized but for maximum penetration the raw form is better, and 75% Turpentine, and about four ounces of the alkanet. Let this stand for a week or more then rub on and wipe off after about 30 minutes. Wait 24hrs and repeat. After about the third coat you should start seeing some results. Usually 4-8 coats will get the result I want. Then wait 24 hrs. or more and wax with Oxblood or Cordobon shoe polish. Wait 48 hrs. or so then use Renaissance or other wax on it.

Just buffing a factory stock with oooo steel wool or bronze wool and then rubbing it with rotten stone will improve the looks quite a bit.

Or flaxseed oil from the health food store. Same seed as linseed oil comes from just cold pressed without the heat and petroleum distillates for extraction. Thin thin coats with long time between them

And you know this how? Advertising?

Not even close to true... oil can be applied over many different cured finishes.

It is impossible to apply "polymerized" oils... "polymerizing" oils, yes.

Turpentine does nothing positive for oil finishes except cleaning up spills.

Didn't you leave out the incantations and voodoo chants?

And how many months until it polymerizes?

You can apply oil over a cured finish but it won't sink into the wood underneath the finish. The whole idea of tung oil is that it sinks deeply into the wood. If you aren't going to use it for that there's no point in using it instead of other oils.

Not sure where you picked up that gem...

You ever saw across a board that has had tung oil applied? It soaks into the wood a good half inch.

I have a Model 1895 that was made by the old Marlin company and it came out before the rifles with checkering. It has the "Mar-Shield" stock finish. I have never liked it because it looks thin and dull but I have never had any problems, even after getting the rifle soaked in a WV gullywasher.

Talked to the owner of Sutherland Wells this morning about polymerization and his finish. If I understood him correctly, they heat the tung oil to a certain temp and hold it there for a specified amount of time. It starts the polymerizing of the oil so it is partially polymerized. So, maybe as Sitka Deer suggested, the term polymerizing might be more appropriate. After application on your project, the polymerization becomes complete much faster than would pure, unheated tung oil. Furthermore, the finish they produce is 50-50 tung oil and solvent. The solvent keeps the oil thin enough to work easily and gasses off after application.

Regardless, I've used the Sutherland Wells product for years on gun stocks for relatively high dollar rifles and shotguns since it yields the proper look. I've also used it on top of poly, lacquer, varnish, and shellac as well as raw wood and it worked well. I apply with my hands and control the sheen by the amount of mineral spirits i add. Generally I don't want a glossy appearance, just a nice warm glow with all the pores filled.
FWIW
Phil

So more MS = what sheen, and less = what sheen ?

Well, I suppose the more mineral spirits added to the tung oil would result in less tung oil applied so less sheen. When I'm doing the very final coats, I use appx 75% Sutherland wells tung oil and 25% mineral spirits. After applying to a spot like one side of the buttstock, I rub it with the heel of my hand until it feel pretty slick. The more subsequent coats added progressively increase sheen/shine. I stop adding coats when I get what I want obviously. And, Craigster, that includes my Ballards
Phil

Thanks .

I routinely encourage people to make the test. Apply fresh, straight, polymerizing oil to one side of a board and thin it on the other side. As many equal coats as you like. When cured, cut it. Then wait a few dry days and look again. I have done it many times and many people have seen it. The solvent is filtered by the wood. Suggesting it increases penetration is an error.

Tung acts just like linseed and you cannot tell the difference without a serious lab.

a few facts:
Sheen is a function of the surface.
Oil shrinks as it polymerizes, drawing the surface tight.
To create commercial matte finishes silicone particles are added. As the oil polymerizes around the grit it permanently disrupts (and weakens) the surface.
The only good, permanent way to create sheen is rubbing the surface with mild abrasives.
Solvents gassing off create pores in the finish, affecting water resistance. Water molecules are smaller (molar mass of turpentine is over seven times water.)

Lots of chemical driers available to add at the last minute to oils. Oil no longer needs to be boiled to polymerize and curing is far more reliable. Once it starts polymerizing the clock is started on the whole container...

Tung Oil is slightly more water resistant than Linseed Oil. This is why the US Army chose it for the Springfield rifle. Tung dries with a microscopic orange peel finish so is slightly more satin than Linseed. Turpentine bonds and polymerizes with the oil so is superior to mineral spirits which just evaporates and leave the oil more porous on a microscopic level. (Look it up Art)

The food grade Flax seed oil has all the lipids and fats still in it so it is really slow drying (think years) but this is an advantage with things like Alkanet root oil where the long dry time lets it soak in more. The partially polymerized Linseed and Tung oils will dry faster and harder. I like artist stand oil to add to a varnish oil mix. Tung Oil will yellow to a lessor degree than Linseed. I like the yellowing on darker wood stocks.

I have had oil not stick to some of the super hard finishes, but either a coat of Shellac or adding a small amount of shellac to the oil or oil/varnish mix improves adhision and drying characteristics. I add Cobalt, Japan. & sometimes red lead dryers to most oil mixes. Red lead is not too toxic for contact but wear a mask when sanding.

All these finishes are best applied during a full moon while naked.

Not so. I got it from the horse's mouth a long time ago, from a guy who was there. My long gone friend was an Artificer in Army Ordnance during WWII (actually a little before, and through, the war). Artificers were guys who were attached to combat units as "gun fixers"- with trucks fitted out as mobile workshops with all the stuff for repairing small arms in the field. He described his job as mainly fixing/replacing broken stocks, rebarreling shot-out and rusted out rifles, and all the various and sundry ills that befell weapons being used in harsh conditions. The man amazed me with speed he could work at. He re-barreled my first '03 in his basement shop back in the 70's while I watched, and I doubt it took him much over half an hour.

Part of his early training was a rotation through the Springfield Armory. While there he witnessed stocks being "finished", by dunking in big vats of hot oil. He said that he was told they used whatever oil the procurement officer happened to get a good deal on- linseed or tung- and used it interchangeably.

Wow! Just wow!

I have moose to cut up and should be doing that. Been a large part of four so far and one more is likely to die this week.

Turpentine does not bond with the oil, period. It evaporates almost completely. Cleaner, more expensive, lab grade versions leave almost nothing behind. Most leave some gum and resin. without a link to your info I cannot research where your source failed, nor do I really care to. It is certainly another internet whiz.

Tung oil is absolutely not different from linseed oil in use. It is not more waterproof and in point of fact, neither is as waterproof as bare wood. Atmospheric water is attracted by the cured oil and absorbed. I have personally confirmed this with finish tests on 1" walnut cubes many hundreds of times. And neither yellows more than the other, period.

The surface is absolutely not rougher than linseed and there is no difference in sheen. That is beyond laughable, really...

Please elucidate the concept of leaving fats and lipids in oils... (note to the Department of Redundancy Department... x 2)... The important stuff is mostly fatty acids... especially linoleic acid. The word linoleum comes from the root, hint.

There is more I could comment on but you assuredly will continue rubbing one out on the next full moon...

At this point does anyone give a f uck about this topic except to argue back and forth about minutae ?

One might think that an expert gunsmith such as yourself might be interested in learning something from your betters. Guess not. Just put your head back up your, um, in the sand!

What part of not giving a f uck didn't you understand there d ickhead ?

Did you read through this whole thread just so you could get a good pissed off going? Who's the funny boy?

Unbelievable the harsh language from such a pious chick.

You’re sure involved for not giving a [bleep]. Perhaps you just don’t understand the words you’re using.

Probably the part where you fantasized about having something of value to offer. Fantasy is not part of IB's normal agenda.

I would agree, except the points being discussed are major. But I am not surprised they escaped your grasp...

Major except for the fact the topic had been pretty thoroughly covered on the first page, after that it descended into the usual campfire insult hurling pizzing contest.

Which you so cheerfully abetted. Congrats- you stuck your sausage in the meat grinder again. (Now here comes the vituporous PM full of frothing from the mouth. I was hoping for some entertainment this chilly wet Saturday morning after being up most of the night!!)

Minutiae is what separates a good job from an excellent job. The Devil really is in the details.

Good morning there ya old windbag, you seem to have done a good job with the minutae on this one. Don't you have a boat that needs varnishing ?

I actually reread the whole thread. Substance was being added in the form of correcting major errors right up until you stepped in. You have added nothing beyond your bright and cheery little personality. And another of your whine/snivel/tantrums about everybody being mean. While you forget you are the real dickhead in the thread. Absolutely nothing you wrote helped anyone finish a stock.

Thought you had the topic pretty well covered there Mr. Know-it-all guru of all things gunsmithing sir !

Now you’re getting somewhere sugar!

What a fuvck stick you are. Sad.

In the end, everything is a detail.

And you're still a d ickhead .Good night John boy, turn out the light.

So long until the next episode of "Wizzed on his Gun" When our hero comes out ranting about everyone being mean to him, while being a Dick to everyone! Will our hero ever grow up and realize the value of using just one face? Stay tuned boys and girls!

My dearest Gunswizz. Notice I said it without cussing and calling of names? Please go away. But Be Well ;), RZ.