This is just a brain cloud I had today while at work...A couple things I'm wondering though is how much it might cost to have the bolt face opened up...I've got other .22's but would like to leave them as they are...What will it take other than the bolt face & a new barrel??? Follower??? Anybody done this?

Find a different rifle if you want a 7-08. You are taking the hard route, believe me.

This is why you see [bleep] up rifles in some pawn shop, the result of poor planning and a blacksmith hack job.

MtnHtr

Just a thought...thanks for putting it to rest...I'll sleep more soundly tonight...If I might ask, what do you mean by poor planning & a blacksmith hackjob? I asked the question because I didn't know. Sorry to get you so irritated...

That is about it. You could buy a new bolt form PTG and save some hassel. If I was in your shoes and having the wants for a 708. I would sell that 223 and put the money into a Stiller Predator.

If you can get $400 for the 223, Stillers are about $700. You would have put that money difference into squaring, opening up the bolt face and putting a Sako extractor in. You are looking at around 250-350 to get the action straight. Probably another 150-175 to open up the bolt face and put in a new extractor. You are in money by going the Predator. At the end of the day you will have a custom rifle on a Custom action, not a reworked Rem Model 7. My next ground up build is gonna be a Stiller, once I get a stock or two and a few new tubes installed.

Another thought, you might try swapping bolts and the mag box/follower with another Mod 7 (with a .473 boltface). It might feed if the frame rails are the same. You will have to find someone willing to swap parts with you obviously.

The Rem boltfaces can be opened up but that means a Sako extractor. I don't know of anyone who can recut the offset factory extractor groove but there might be some talent out there.

Sorry if I sounded harsh in my first reply, another donor action with a .473 boltface is your best bet IMO.

MtnHtr

Thanks for the replys. It really was just a passing thought. I kinda figured the extractor might be a problem but then again I'm not a machinist so I don't know. I don't really have any burning desire for a 7-08....then again...maybe I do??? HMMM

you can open up the bolt face without a sako extractor installation, sako extractors are a controversial issue on remington bolts to many of us.I have found just replacing the extractor on a remington will generally solve unreliable extraction problems. Some of those extractors have been around a long time and fired many rounds of questionable handloads, so sometimes they just give up.also sometimes the brass is not perfect or has gone out of dimension after numerous firings. Not withstanding it is not the best extractor system but then most types of actions have their weaknesses.

You righty's and your model sevens...

It would cost you as much to convert the action, bolt, feed rails et all to the larger size, as it would for you to buy a donor short action rifle.

Ditto on Mtn Hunter's points. I looked into a similar mod with an old M700 of my dad's, also in .223. Part of my rationale for my project was that my dad passed away and I wanted to shoot a bigger round, but in his gun. Whatever.

Besides having problems opening the bolt face to .473" to accomodate the 7mm-08, you'd run into much bigger feeding problems.

DON'T DO IT!!!!

Remington short-actions (in M700's, 721's, 600's, Model 7's, etc.) are scarce items! Whether an action has a .22-250/7mm-08/.308Win-size bolt, or a .223Rem bolt - there are shooters looking for rifles just for their actions who'll pay dearly to get the action for a project-rifle.

Off hand, if your rifle was in like-new condition it would be worth at least $400 to someone wanting just the action.

If you want a 7mm-08 in a M7, buy a Model Seven already in that cartridge - or find a .308 or .243 M7 (for a song!) and have it rebarreled.

Brownell's sells brand new M700 actions for $400 or so.

Tell you what--I'll trade you for my Model 7 in 260 and save us both big gunsmithing bills.

I hadn't thought about trading...until I posted this...let me think on it a bit...a finnlight would surely work...hmmm...let me look under my woodpile & see what all I have & figure out just what I THINK I WANT...tt

What???

it's not worth the hassle to change a Remington 600/660/700 or Seven action from a .378" bolt face to a .473" bolt face..as well as the bolt face work.....the feed rails are different as well as the mag box, spring and the follower...sell it and get one in 7-08 or at least one in a 308 based cartridge that is a straight forward rebarrel to 7-08....

I agree, it may not be worth doing for some folks, but let's keep it real, it is easily within the scope of a competent gunsmith. It is a piece of cake!

Well, let's have it. How fast you can turn this job around and would it include the factory Rem extractor?

MtnHtr

I�m sure there are some that are as good, but you would have to look pretty damned hard to find a finer machinist and gunsmith than Boresnake. He�s the sort of guy that if he doesn�t have a particular tool for a job he just makes one. He�s been a fulltime working gunsmith for 30 something years, and was a Marine Corps armorer before that.

What are your credentials Mtn Hunter?

Okay, but I really prefer to have conversations such as this in person.....

This type of conversion comes under the heading "custom" and requires a skill level that is sometimes beyond that of the arm chair "experts" that proliferate these kinds of sites. Yes, this conversion will require a different extractor system, but the good news is, there are folks out here, in the real world, who can do this crap in their sleep. It isn't complicated.

My credentials are tinkerer, some of my work can be seen in the rifle blueprint's thread of the Custom Rifles forum ( Link ). I've never claimed to be a gunsmith nor have the desire, I just build a few rifles to my liking and standards. But I do feel folks on here listen to my advice judging from the PMs I receive and feedback.

As for Boresnake, I find him to be arrogant at times on this forum. I was kind of surprised he chose the different extractor route as a person with his skills should have that figured out?

If you like, critique my work and rifles to your heart's content.

MtnHtr

The man that started this thread wanted to know the feasibility of doing this conversion and a professional working gunsmith, who has done it numerous times for his customers, answered him only to have you (quite arrogantly I might add) confront him about it as if you somehow knew more about this than he did...which you obviously don�t.

Just because you can�t do the job doesn�t mean it can�t be done quickly and reliably by a �professional, skilled gunsmith�...such as Boresnake.

He probably had more rifles come in and out of his shop in the last two months than most of us have ever owned...let alone worked on or built. The man is a wealth of knowledge and as any of his thousands of customers can tell you his work is impeccable.

The title of this forum is �Gunsmithing� not �Tinkering�...and Boresnake offers advice and help (free of charge) based on his vast knowledge from a long and successful career as a �for-real� gunsmith.

There is nothing wrong with being a �tinkerer�...I pretty much fall into that category myself in some areas... But we �tinkerers� should be cautious when getting so uppity and confrontational (like you tend to do so often) with those few guys who actually can and do things that are beyond our skill levels.

Boresnake has a proven level of skill at his craft that goes far beyond merely posting pictures of rifles assembled from aftermarket parts.

I don't have the luxury to do stuff for my own entertainment anymore. That stopped about 25 years ago. I run a busy shop and my customers, the paying ones dictate what extractor goes on what gun.

RickB,

You've taken this whole thread and my posts out of context. Now when did I post I could open up a boltface? Myself and others advised Thomas to look for a different donor just as several others advised. How hard is that to comprehend? Are we not qualified to make that call?

As for Boresnake, I was curious if he could duplicate the factory extractor groove so I asked him. And he more or less answered my question just as I thought he would.

Get a clue dude! And get off your high horse while you're at it!

MtnHtr

You didn't ask me if I could, which I can, you asked me if it was included, which, like I said, is up to the customer.

"piece of cake" as in "do-able" or maybe not a smart procedure to follow?

I wouldn't recommend pursuing that can-'o-worms!

If I needed to turn my M700 SA in .223 into a .308W - which is what I wanted to do, having to machine and "smith" the sides and rails of the .223 action is a really hard way to get a .308 in a Remy M700 short action! AND UN-NECESSARILY EXPENSIVE!!

Is it "do-able?" Yeah, but only IF it has to be done!

Is it practical? Not much.

My gunsmith makes his own barrels and holds records shot with those barrels. Big deal! He advised me - trying to be thoughtful of my wallet - to follow a different more practical course, which I appreciate.

I'm sure some good armorer's and gunsmiths can turn a sow's ear into a purse, but for a custom rifle I'm not that desparate! I'll start with a more sensible donor action.

Stubbleduck,

I would not even try to question these two "professionals".

So far instead of giving out practical and economical advice, these two have disparaged the common folks on this board and tried to make themselves out as some kind of elitist gunsmiths.

They have failed to impress me..........

MtnHtr

Amen, Mtn Hunter.

I believe that you are the one that needs a step ladder to climb on your horse there Pard!

Your post to Boresnake was in the form of an arrogant challenge...NOT a question. I may be a high school drop out but I did hang around long enough to learn to read. If it makes you feel better now to try and play little Mr. Innocent who was just asking a question that tells me allot about you.

I responded directly to your post, and your post only...and I took absolutely NOTHING out of context.

Unless you are fast enough (again!) to go back and edit your posts everyone on here can see for themselves what both of us said and didn�t say.

I could be wrong butI do not believe that the feed rails differ 223 vs. 7-08. Just the mag box, follower, spacer, and spring. What say you you BoreSnake?

RickB,

You take me anyway you want dude, nothing like arguing on the 'net.

Build any lightweight rifles recently?

Have a great a weekend!

MtnHtr

Is that a Stainless 223 model 7?

Give me first dibs if you decide to sell

J

Ps....Settle down guys, you are all good people!

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/piece%20of%20cake



Only a can-'o-worms for those who get in over their heads.



Try to pay attention. You don't have to touch the rails. They are fine. Open the bolt face, change the box and follower, and provide for extraction. No more, no less.



This wasn't about you. Thomas Towns, the originator of this thread asked "Anybody done this?". The guy wanted to know if anyone had experience. I do. I was presenting the other side.

There you go Mtn Hunter, Stubbleduck has demonstrated exactly what I meant by "Arm chair Experts who proliferate these sites". He doesn't have a clue as to what's involved yet that doesn't stop him from jumping in with both left feet. Which is fine AS LONG AS there is balance. Nothing disparaging about that. Just stating a fact.

FVA you are correct.

I converted one from 223 to 7-08 for a guy a couple years ago. It wouldn't feed a 7-08 round at all with the 223 rails. Have you gotten them to feed "as is"? Or is it one of those things where some will feed and some won't?...curious about this,...the 223 rails are quite a bit narrower and the angle on the bottom of the rails is different.....you know this, but I'm surprised you can get them to feed as is.

I have a 700 here in 17 Ackley. A .308 will pass through the rails with no problem. The 700 and Model Seven in there respective calibers are the same with regards to the feed rails, and the magazine's interchange. I converted a 223 to 22-250 Ackley as recently as this past month with no problem. This particular customer has since turned this into a single shot, but not due to any feeding problems.

I'm gonna shot something right square in the face tomorrow........

OK guys....the question is hereby withdrawn.... I just made a deal for a trade...Yep a Mod. 7...7-08 You boys really do get your panties in a wad pretty quick around here Thanks for all the replys...tt

+1

You really are a stupid jarhead, aren't you boreworm? I only repeated what "another opinion" in the form of another gunsmith told me. Another gunsmith whom I trust because he acts like a human being and looks his customers in the eye instead spuing his ego.

Why should anyone trust you? Because you're some dumbazz, egomanialcal rifle "builder?" Tell me another one! I'm reeaaaaly impressed.

Yep... I guess IF a guy wanted to go to the expense, he could get a magazine box & follower. A bolt & barrel etc. & have himself a switch barrel rifle...Let me ask some of you EXPERTS out there...What is the difference between the feed rails of a Model Seven .223 & .308...hmmm...come on I'm REALLY interested...

BS,

As for Rem 700s, the frame rails are not the same, FVA was incorrect (and he respectfully admitted he might be wrong - good on him).

So hack away, it's a piece of cake!

Seems your first priority is to take the customer's money instead of steering him to the easier and less expensive route. I'm not suprised either.

MtnHtr

Rembo nailed it earlier:

"the 223 rails are quite a bit narrower and the angle on the bottom of the rails is different....."

The underside bevel on the 223's rails are shorter too.

MtnHtr

I'm not trying to make anyone look bad or come off as an expert but when in doubt.....check for myself. So having a 700/6mm Rem., 700/221 Fire Ball, Model Seven/260, model seven 223AI, I took them out of their stocks and compared. Mtn. Hunter and Rembo are right.

Well I didn't & STILL don't KNOW. So before I ship this one off to the guy I'm tradeing to for a 7-08 I'm gonna have to take some measurements...It was my belief before I started reading all these posts, that the actions were all the same & the only diff was the bolt face & follower. My thinking being that the follower design could pretty much position the cartridge for proper feeding. I guess I should have stayed in a Holiday Inn last night...

The only way to properly measure is to take the actions out of the stock and do it from underneith. Of course then you won't have to measure as the difference will be obvious. I will also say that the differences, though obvious, are slight and the slight opening up/chamfering could be done in short order by a competent smith/machinist.