Besides the BLR, was there any other lever rifle chambered in 358 Winchester?

I know that they chambered the Winchester Model 94 in 356 Winchester, but I could not find anything showing the 358 Winchester.

Thanks Darryle

Winchester model 88.

Savage 99. A couple in 358 Win can be found. Or buy one in 308 Win and have JES rebore it to 358 WIn.
If you go that route check out having it done in 338 Federal.

I forgot about both of these, even though I have read numerous post from some of the members about the 99 and a couple about JES converted 88s.


Didn't Marlin offer something in the 308 family for a while?

Of the 88 and 99, which of the two has the better/smoother action? I have never owned either rifle in any caliber, but want to add one.

Thanks Darryle

99 good to go. trigger on the 88 is almost beyond help.

I owned a Winchester 100 which I believe has a similar trigger to the 88. I did not care for the trigger and I traded it.

I have a 99 in a 300 and that trigger is acceptable.

Well then, a search for a 99 is on.

Also, can you rebarrel a 99? In the off chance I find a deal on a 243 - 308 rifle.

One last question, is it tube or magazine fed?

Thanks Darryle

(('s all feed from a magazine. I believe that is true for the 88 as well. The BLR's also are from a magazine.

Here's your huckleberry......

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...e-99-series-a-brush-gun-358#Post15303863

I rebarreled a 99F in 243 to 358, no problem.

someone posted about chambering a 99 in 35 Remington. that is so old school cool !!!

Did you buy that one in the Classifieds D? Be Well, RZ.

No, that was well outside my price range

Both Winchester 88 and 100 came in 358. The 358 is on my wish list in a model 88, of course the hardest to find!

356 angle eject model 94. Or the 336 ER

Both have been stellar performers 4 me.

I think the 336 35 Remington can get very favorable ballistic results for the reloader.

Winchester 100s were only cataloged in 243, 284, and 308.

Buy a 99 in 308 and have it rebored. I have a factory 99 in 358. A brush gun form 72 if I remember. But I wouldn't hesitate to get a JES rebore. I have a Savage 9.3X62, 760 358 Win. and a BLR in 358 Win. All rebores by JES and they all shoot just fine. Come on in the water's fine. Be Well, RZ.

I have a 99C in 308 Win if you want to do JES. I want to love the Savage 99, but I cannot. Sorry 99 fans.
You can also look at either Winchester 94 AE or Marlin 336ER in 356 WInchester. The 356 and 358 are the same cartridge EXCEPT that the 356 has thicker brass and a different rim. Dies can be used on either case. The thicker brass of the 356 does cost you about 50 fps.

Comparing 308 to 308 during reloading the model 88 took more powder before having a sticky ejection, then the BLR, then the model 99. I also observed weird behaving brass after shooting it out of the model 99.

Neil Jones a gunsmith in PA worked on some BLR s of mine ( triggers)......he said he could do 88 s also.

Haven't sent them any. The 358 model 88 is a rare bird ........very very expensive. I guess a lot of them didn't sell so they got rebarreled . Those will have an A prefix in the serial number. I owned one, but I was informed at cabelas it was a " parts" gun. Only after I sold it did I find out what the A meant.

I think a 336 35 R.E.M. Could get you pretty close to model 99 ballistics chambered in the 358.

Just curious, but wouldn't you have to run the 35 REM at higher pressure to equal performance potential that the greater case capacity of the 358 WIN provides?

The case capacity chart that I have shows 51 grains of capacity for the 35 REM and 57 grains for the 358 WIN.

I had a 336SD rechambered from 35 REM to 356 WIN. Gained a few FPS, lost a whole lot of value.

I've seen a few 88s in 358 and they are expensive. I doubt a 35 Rem could get close to the ballistics of a 358 in a 99. I'd imagine it'd be not too far different than a 356 Win...and I easily get 2400 fps in mine with 200's. I'd have to lean pretty hard on my 35 Rem and even then I don't know if I could get within 200 fps of that. I think the best I've done in my 336 is around 2150 with Leverevolution.

I have gotten 2190 with 200 grain Round nose interlocks using H 4895 and CCI 250. With a 336 carbine.
( older waffle top)
I haven't heated up loads for my 336 rifle with a chronograph yet.

Thanks for the report....gives me incentive to give it a go!

I will put my ER and 94 AE up to bat also!

"I think a 336 35 R.E.M. Could get you pretty close to model 99 ballistics chambered in the 358."


I guess if you consider 400 fps "close" your statement would be true! lol

I wouldn't need to drive a 35 Remington to 358 Win velocities. Put a cast WLN 200 gr bullet in that Marlin 336 and see if everything doesn't die when you shoot it in the right spot. Be Well, RZ.

260Remguy,

You are absolutely right, I stand corrected. I guess I was just wishing that there was another opportunity for a .358 Winchester. :-)

Winchester 100s were only cataloged in 243, 284, and 308. I owned a Win 100 that had been rebarelled in 358 Winchester, the guy I bought it from said a few were sold in 358 Win but never cataloged interesting
but no proof.

If You chronographed a savage model 99 358 with 200 grain bullet at 2590 fps.

I stand corrected!

But......

I am from Missouri.

I have reloaded the savage 99/1899 in 303,30/30,250/3000,300 sav, &.308.

I have never been able to get past mid book loads before the levers would stick and extractions became difficult.

Maybe the .358 is different because of the bigger bore.......so I may be wrong. But no one has shared actual chronograph data on the 99 358. So I am wondering......

I was in the same position as you last year when I was searching for a 358. I wasn’t sold on the BLR and all them gears and stuff they have in them. I saw a used one chambered in 308 (steel receiver) in a local gun shop and actually handled one and my opinion of the BLR changed. It seems very solid. Not long after I found one in 358 on an auction site and it was mine. I’ve loaded it to book maximums with no sticky extractions or anything. I’ve been completely satisfied. As soon as I find a Savage 99 I can get my hands on it’s going to go to JES for a rebore to 358.

Neil Jones a gunsmith in Pennsylvania has done a wonderful job on the BLRs I have sent him for trigger work.

Speaking of sticky extractions has anyone tried the load data for the 356 in the hodgdon web site?

It is way different than the 1998 Speer reloading book. I would be askeerd to try them loads.

This fall I chronoed some .356 factory loads that I bought over 30 years ago. Its velocity looked similar to what Hodgden is showing for the 200g and 250g loads. No sticky extraction

I recorded 2535 fps outta a 356 ER ( 200 grain FTX) one action took it. The other marlin opened up the Lever.

I was using 39.5 H4198. And a CCI 250.

Dropped it down to 36.7 but I just had a newly purchased ( used) 94 AE pop open.g

Hodgdon called 4 37 to 40.

Maybe it's the magnum primers?

The 220 data and 250 data is where the variance gets bigger IMO.

220 Speer

Speer book H 335 ........39 gr to 43

Hodgdon web.....H335. 43 gr to 46

My load is 42

Like they say, even with loading manuals start low and work up. Different rifles handle loads differently.

Isn’t the BLR a better platform than all the rest of them ?

Accuracy wise I believe it is.

I think the BLR is a strong action and accurate action IMO.

The only one I have worked up that got " sticky" was a takedown .308.

I have had three steel receivers .308,7.08, and a 270. These all took as much load as called for.

The two pistol grip solid alloy frames also took loads as well as my bolt action and model 88 in .308.

As a side note I just got back from shooting, took my chronograph, I brought three 356 s ( one ER, two AE)my 200 grain FTX loads clocked at 2350 to 2335 about 12 feet from muzzle. The 336 ER and 94 AE both popped their levers open, just like the other AE did yesterday. {36.7 H4198 cci 250 } gonna pull the bullets and start over.

The 284 model 88 did 2615 average with 150 grain Nosler s.

I had 56 grains H 4831 cci 250 partition seconds weighed to 1 grain deviation.
55.5 H 4831 nosler ballistic tip 150 cci 250. So I think my chronograph was working OK.

I had 250 grain Round nose Hornady. I settled on 40 grains H 335 cci 250......all three handeled it. 2060 average .

The sun went behind the canyon wall, so my chronograph went wompy.

It's nice to get the most out of a cartridge ......but pulling bullets blow.

The only thing I use a magnum primer in with a 358 bullet is 350 Remington Magnum and I'm not sure it is needed! Be Well, RZ.

The Speer book calls for it with ball powders?

I am beginning to believe the FTX bullet builds pressure some how? I dunno 🤷‍♀️. I am liking the 220 or 250 round nose in my 356 s.

I’ve read before that the FTX has a longer bearing surface than other 200 grain bullets and does create more pressure. I haven’t looked and compared myself personally.

Rock chucker...I just looked at my Hornady reloading book. The illustrations of their 200 grain bullets does show the FTX may be quite a bit more bearing surface.

Look at the 175 FTX. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022919956?pid=520778

With the .358 Win, one could push a 35 Rem bullet (FTX) beyond it's design velocity window. I don't need varmint type bullet performance on a WT.

2,600 fps is reportedly the high end of what the 200 gr. FTX is designed for. Not sure about the 175 gr. FTX. I see they're using the same B.C. number of .3 for both. Don't see how one number works for both, not sure they'd both have the same velocity performance, but they may.

The 175 FTX is one of the most accurate in my 12 twist .358 JES bored Pre-64 Fwt. I know I can push it faster than 2,600, just trying to keep it in the 2,500 range.

As posted on another site, I'm trying the 150 gr and 160 gr. CEB Raptors, and the Hammer 178 gr. and 203 gr., all high performance monos. Just too expensive. Hammer will send trial packs of 15 bullets. The 150 gr. Raptor can run nearly 3K fps out of the .358 Win. They've been very accurate in other rounds.

DF

Thanks dirt Farmer!

I pulled the FTX......put them in 35 Remington brass.

Gonna use the Sierra 200 grain Round nose in the 356 brass!

That way I will know gummy tips are 35 R.E.M.

I think you can use FTX's in the .356 or .358. I'd suggest not pushing them to the max, too far beyond 35 Rem limits, unless you want varmint bullet performance...

They are very accurate, just not sure how they'd perform at 2,600-2,700 fps on WT's. I say 2,700 because pushing 175 gr. FTX's at that speed, or even faster, out of a .356 or .358 shouldn't be that difficult.

DF

When using the FTX in the .356 the cannelure and final COAL might require some case trimming to a specific length for feeding reliability.
Lotsa info out there on it.

I have not seen the FTX act any softer or more destructive than a plain cup-and-core Winchester factory 200gr. But even those can be pretty hard on meat at close ranges. Bloodshot shoulders are normal. 250gr factory not as bad but slower and a bigger trajectory difference.

Speer 220gr are the way to fly in the .356.

I have to agree so far WTM45

I harvested a cow elk at under 40 yards or so with my 336 ER using those 220. She went 18 yards, and there was minimal tissue loss. I wish I could post photos but out here in the sticks I don't have enough gigaflops or I am a dumb azz or both.

So I have these 200 grain old Hornady round nose #3525. How fast at muzzle should these need to be for point blank whitetail work?
Thanks

Guess I need to ask, point blank how far?

And out of what round?

DF

Should I match it with the 220 speed? Or maybe a lil faster? Or slower?

356 win. Under 100 yards. Most likely 80 yards.

Looks like I will have used up my old Hornady today's testing so I have sierra 200 grain Round nose #2800

Thanks again for your input.

If you know the velocity and the B.C. you can get drop data from the Hornady Ballistics calculator.

I'm thinking if you're 2" or so high at a hundred, you should be good to around 200, maybe with some drop. I don't think it's a 300 yd. round, well maybe with a turret and lob them in. My 45-70 BPCR with the 250 gr. Barnes TTSX at 2.550 fps will land them all on a pie plate at three hundred, using the CDS set up for that load.

I had a VX-3i 3.5-10x40 CDS I was gonna set up with my best .358 Win load to do likewise. The Leupold went bonkers, is on the way back to Oregon. If they can get it fixed and if it stays fixed, I may yet try that.

DF

Got back from the shooting.

The sun was not straight over head.
Yesterday's data was a 200 grain Hornady NOT a 250,

So I continued with the 200 and a comparison with a marlin 336 ADL ( rifle not carbine) in 35 Remington

The 35 Remington clocked a 200 grain FTX at
2157 using 38 grains exterminator

2219 using 37 H335

2280 with a round nose 200 grain interlock and 38.5 H 4895

The two 356 one marlin one Winchester took the round nose 200 grain Hornady to

2354

The Winchester got sticky so I quit it. The marlin kept going it shot my max loads built
43.5 of H 335.

Both 356 s shot 220 grain Speer hot cor loads of 42 H335

2250

I don't think my chronograph technique is that great but I hope you can understand why I believe the 35 Remington in a 336 rifle can compare favorably to a 356/358 Lever action if it's not a BLR, or model 88.

Recently did some load development with the 356w using several different powders in a custom 24in barreled mod 94.Chronagraphed the 200gr Hornady at over 2400FPS with TAC, don't recall load. Prefer the 250gr Kodiak, my old load with 4064 got 2150FPS, with 46grTAC got 2280FPS with no pressure signs. With factory 200gr got 2450FPS.

I've found Ramshot's Xterminator works great in my M94 356. My average with the 200 Hornady RN is 2400 fps and with the 180 Speer is about 2500 fps. Both have been surprisingly accurate out of my rifle. I haven't shot the 220s yet.

Thanks! I will try the XT in the 356..

I am real low on TAC. The company told me the reccomend XT over TAC. I think TAC is too bulky won't all fit in the case.

Why do factory loads seem to get speed without pressure?

Is it the brass? It's all so fascinating 2 me.

I tried TAC in my 356, but Xterminator worked better. Here is what I got from Ramshot some time back:

Caliber: .356 Winchester
Barrel length: 24”
Powder: Ramshot- X-TERMINATOR®.

Bullet weight: 180 grains.
Start load: 43.6 grains (2400 – 2500 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 48.5 grains (2675 - 2775 Ft/p/sec).LD ca 106%

Bullet weight: 200 grains.
Start load: 41.0 grains (2200 – 2300 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 45.5 grains (2500 – 2600 Ft/p/sec) LD ca 105%.

Bullet weight: 220 grains.
Start load: 39.2 grains (2175 – 2275 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 43.5 grains (2400 – 2500 Ft/p/sec) LD ca 104%.

Bullet weight: 250 grains.
Start load: 37.4 grains (2050 – 2125 Ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 41.5 grains (2300 – 2375 Ft/p/sec) LD ca 103%.

Awesome

The 94 AE s took 40.5 with the 250 grain Hornady round nose and cci 250 s

The marlin ER popped its Lever at 39.5. This marlin was worked over by a gunsmith to smooth the action so I believe it is more sensitive to pressure than factory.

But like my uncle said.......39 grains ....or 40.5 grains ........the beast ain't gonna know the difference.

Thanks!

I rebarreled a Sako Finnwolf to 358 Win that was originally chambered for the 243. To my mind the Finnwolf is what the M88 wanted to be. 99s and 88s are hard to find and pricey.

Does the finnwolf need the slave pins to assemble? Like the 88?

Darryle, i sent you a PM

No, they don’t.

A lot of it is blended powders not available for reloading. You cannot touch ballistics of Weatherby factory ammo with reloads and they have admitted such.
I suspect it is the same with others.
And they just plain lie... optimal barrel lengths and conditions.

I think I said this but am too lazy to look. I have the BLR and a Savage 99. The BLR was a JES rebore. Be well, RZ.

358 does a good job on grouse with a 180 Barnes. Slightly more bullet than is needed...

I can tell you a 148 gr HB WC works but I can't remember what powder. Or how much. It works on limb chicken. I just carry a few while I deer hunt. Sometimes I get tired of the squirrels telling the deer where I am. Be Well, RZ.