Yeah you read that right, pointy bullets in a tubular magazine rifle... I read with great interest three different articles on sing spitzer type bullets in tubular magaine rifles, and ALL of them could not get any damge of note to occur and concluded that we have been living by an old wives tale for a long, long time for no good reason. The most detailed work was done by then RIFLE and HANDLOADER editor Dave Scoville a couple of years ago. Seems Mr. Scoville tried and tried to get a pointy bullet to ignite a primer and the bullet points ALWAYS failed long before a primer was set off. And the plastic tipped ones fared no better. Not to be dissueaded form his science, Mr. Scoville then made up some ignition devices to forceably ignite a few cartirdges inside soe magazine tubes and even when the cartirdge DID go off, the energy expelled by the unsupported case and unhindered bllet was unimpressive and far from dangerous.
So, with this new information out there who has actuually USED pointy nosed bullets in thier magazine and not just one each in the tube and magazine but a tube full of 'em? Anyone? I am going to give some 130gr TTSX bullets a try in a 30/30AI.
I have other rifles to get froggy with.
Yeah you read that right, pointy bullets in a tubular magazine rifle...
when the cartirdge DID go off, the energy expelled by the unsupported case and unhindered bllet was unimpressive and far from dangerous...
So, with this new information out there...I am going to give some 130gr TTSX bullets a try in a 30/30AI.
What a great idea!
NOT!
Can't see it myself. Round nose bullets work perfectly in the timber where I use my lever rifles. I have bolt action rifles for shooting pointy bullets.
Can't see any reason too.Hornady came out with there rubber tipped bullets for tube magazines and gained little in my opinion.A 30-30 is just that and kills wonderfully with factory ammunition like the Core-Lokts and others at 30-30 distances.
I wouldn't want to chance a hot loaded pointed hard bullet in a tube magazine to test if it would not start a tube ignition..I've seen pictures of tube ignitions and it don't look to friendly.
Jayco
looked all over and can't find a picture of that happening, maybe because no one will try it, but still can't find a picture of it on the net. I'm not doing it.
MM
Here is one of them..I don't have time to find the link but I had it saved.
I had a magazine tube detonation in my Marlin 1895SS while firing Buffalo Bore's 430 grain hard cast 45/70 ammo. Damage to the gun was limited to the magazine tube and I was unharmed. Upon contacting Buffalo Bore Tim Sundles informed the same thing happened to him with the same ammo. He places blame on the design of the Marlin 1895SS, says the "bump" in the rear of the mag tube causes round to tip and contact primer. He went to Marlin with this and they didn't buy it. He wanted my rifle sent to him so he could try again. I talked to several reliable sources, including the NRA and NSSF, who advised me to send rifle to Marlin.
The NSSF specificly recomended I Talk to Harold Watterman at Marlin. I sent the rifle to Marlin who promptly checked and repaired it. When I received the rifle it came with warning, "WE ADVISE NOT USING BUFFALO BORE AMMO!"
I posted this warning on the Marlin web site talk forum. Tim Sundles responded defending his ammo, as to be expected. In defense of his product he has resorted to telling bold face lies. He claims I told him I bought the rifle and his ammo and fired it without checking bore or cleaning--LIE! The rifle was cleaned and had 2 boxes of Federal 300 grainers fired through it before his ammo was even purchased. It is true it was my first Marlin 45/70 , but not my first rifle by a long shot. I have firearms ranging from 22LR to 375H&H Magnum for years and handloaded them safely in this time. He insinuates I am some ignorant first time shooter who blew up a gun and that is wrong.
The fact is there are TWO documented cases of Marlin mag tube detonations in the last 27 YEARS-BOTH WITH HIS AMMO!!
Instead of trying to blame the gun and lie about the shooter he should accept responsibility for his defective product!!
Thanks,
Jim F.
Jayco
I've used pointed bullets for years in both my 336 and 94. No problem, worked great, very accurate.
BUT, I only had one in the chamber and one in the tube. If I can't get a deer with two shots, it don't deserve to die.
No difference than hunting birds with an O/U shotgun, if you know you only have two shots ya take a little more time to pull the trigger.
Here is one of them..I don't have time to find the link but I had it saved.
I had a magazine tube detonation in my Marlin 1895SS while firing Buffalo Bore's 430 grain hard cast 45/70 ammo. Damage to the gun was limited to the magazine tube and I was unharmed. Upon contacting Buffalo Bore Tim Sundles informed the same thing happened to him with the same ammo. He places blame on the design of the Marlin 1895SS, says the "bump" in the rear of the mag tube causes round to tip and contact primer. He went to Marlin with this and they didn't buy it. He wanted my rifle sent to him so he could try again. I talked to several reliable sources, including the NRA and NSSF, who advised me to send rifle to Marlin.
The NSSF specificly recomended I Talk to Harold Watterman at Marlin. I sent the rifle to Marlin who promptly checked and repaired it. When I received the rifle it came with warning, "WE ADVISE NOT USING BUFFALO BORE AMMO!"
I posted this warning on the Marlin web site talk forum. Tim Sundles responded defending his ammo, as to be expected. In defense of his product he has resorted to telling bold face lies. He claims I told him I bought the rifle and his ammo and fired it without checking bore or cleaning--LIE! The rifle was cleaned and had 2 boxes of Federal 300 grainers fired through it before his ammo was even purchased. It is true it was my first Marlin 45/70 , but not my first rifle by a long shot. I have firearms ranging from 22LR to 375H&H Magnum for years and handloaded them safely in this time. He insinuates I am some ignorant first time shooter who blew up a gun and that is wrong.
The fact is there are TWO documented cases of Marlin mag tube detonations in the last 27 YEARS-BOTH WITH HIS AMMO!!
Instead of trying to blame the gun and lie about the shooter he should accept responsibility for his defective product!!
Thanks,
Jim F.
Jayco
the authors of those articles, Scoville for sure in this case, DID say that the sharp edge of a hardcast flatnosed bullet was, according to his experiments, FAR more likely to cause a detonation than a spitzer point bullet. The heavy nose pieces want to droop down and put the hard, sharp edge of the bullet in contact with the primer cup in a more direct fashion that a spitzer bullet can do. Your quite demonstrates that quite nicely as the bullet used was a FNHC and not a spitzer.
Just what do you expect to gain for the risk involved compared to available bullets for leveractions?
Jayco
Higher velocities and thusly more energy at longer distnaces and a much flatter trajectory for easier long range hits than what a 30/30 class rifle has typically been capable of. the same things we gain, all measureable and actual and real world useful, when we use higher ballistic Co-effficient bullets in other calibers. Make a reaaly good rifle even BETTER. And, I am an experimenter as well as tinkerer. Then there is the question of WHAT risks? The scientific proof seems to indicate that there are no risks in using pointed bullets in a tubular magazine. So, all gain, no risk, what is not to love about the idea?
BTW, on one of my trips to Zimbabwe, one of the PH's I hunted iwth frequently had an old peep sighted 30/30 winchester whose tube was kept full of 125gr plastic tipped Spitzers for use on Baboons, Impala, Hyena, warthogs etc and he had been loading them that way for a very long time. A rifle that rides in the back of a safari car over the rocky terrain of Northern Zimabawe seems like a GREAT place to test this theory as such a rifle gets jarred around and bounced a great deal more than anything we would ever see here and is fired far, far more often than we would ever get to do here as well. His rifle and hands etc. are all still very much in tact. I will try to find one of the articels and post it up here. The pointy bullets, according to each of the authors I read 1) ride nose down and do not have the ability to rise up enough to get anywhere near the primer cup of a cartridge ahead of it 2) do not have noses that are hard enough to casue a primer to go off and 3) the recoil energy, iincluding the snap back after recoil is no where near sufficient in force to cause a primer detonation. Thusly, no risk and all benefit.
Since your loading Barnes bullets.....
*The 130-grain TSX bullet has a spitzer ogive and is NOT suitable for use in tubular magazines.
The COAL of cartridges loaded with this bullet is much longer than the SAAMI maximum, and is
generally suitable for use only in single-shot firearms.
I sure don't understand why with so many other options out there but to each his own.
Jayco
If you want to use pointy tip bullets in a tubular magazine go ahead.
Remington's old series of auto centerfires had tubular as a safety factor, magazines which kept the cartridges at an angle where they were not touching the one in front. In fact Marlin was experimenting with a 336 converted to 250-3000 Savage with such a magazine, but it never made it to market, also they were toying around with the idea of marketing a 336 in .300 Savage.
If one wants to use pointy tips in a lever use the Hornady ammo or obtain a Mdl 99, 88 or a BLR. As far as ballistic efficiency Mike Venturino of Rifle magazine did a test sometime back comparing round nose ammo and pointy tip ammo. Over lever action distances there was no practical difference in trajectories.
I have three lever actions: A 45/70, a .35 Remington and a .357 Magnum. Personally I have no desire to make any one of them into a 270.
...125gr plastic tipped Spitzers...
Plastic tipped bullets should be the exception. It would seem there is little risk with these:
http://www.hornady.com/store/LEVERevolution-with-MonoFlex-Bullets-ammo/
I was mosty checking to see if anyone else had read these articles and maybe started using some aerodynamic bullets for a change. Seems like not yet.
I worked up a 30-30 load with Barnes 130 TSX's at 2500 fps a couple years ago. PBR is around 250 yards. I am now playing with the 130TTSX and LVR powder. I got 2650 fps with 38.5 grains LVR. PBR, according to the tables, is over 275 yards. I think that is a significant improvement over typical 30-30 loads. I am still working with this combo. I have not put two at a time in the tube yet but I did read the Scoville article and may well do it.
I just loaded up a few boxes of the leverrevolution 160 bullets in my 30-30 marlin.
With the leverrevolution powder I used,I should be getting somewhere around 2300 fps .
I worked up a 30-30 load with Barnes 130 TSX's at 2500 fps a couple years ago. PBR is around 250 yards. I am now playing with the 130TTSX and LVR powder. I got 2650 fps with 38.5 grains LVR. PBR, according to the tables, is over 275 yards. I think that is a significant improvement over typical 30-30 loads. I am still working with this combo. I have not put two at a time in the tube yet but I did read the Scoville article and may well do it.
We are on the same page, I want to do it with a peep sighted Model 94 in 30/30AI.
I worked up a 30-30 load with Barnes 130 TSX's at 2500 fps a couple years ago. PBR is around 250 yards. I am now playing with the 130TTSX and LVR powder. I got 2650 fps with 38.5 grains LVR. PBR, according to the tables, is over 275 yards. I think that is a significant improvement over typical 30-30 loads. I am still working with this combo. I have not put two at a time in the tube yet but I did read the Scoville article and may well do it.
We are on the same page, I want to do it with a peep sighted Model 94 in 30/30AI.
How good can you shoot {grouping ability} past 200 yds with that peep sighted Winchester ? No point having a 300 yd. capable load in a 200 yd. launching platform.
The rifle with a receiver sight:
![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/Pic_2_resized.jpg)
A couple groups with the receiver sight. The 130 TTSX/38.5 LVR 100 yard group after rethroating the rifle. I lost about 100 fps and velocities got erratic when I changed the throat. I need to work it back up to where it was. The upper group was shot with some leftover 130TSX/W748 loads. It was shot without cleaning after shooting about 100 rounds of cast bullet loads. The first round is at the upper left and you can see how much blacker the ring around the hole is from fouling in the bore.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/Winchester_64_Barnes.jpg)
The rifle with a Leupold scout scope. Given good light I think a 300 yard shot is possible. I have found that the scout scope doesn't do well for me in low light.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/544/Model_64_resized.jpg)
I can still shoot long distances pretty well with a peep. Iron sights not so much but with a good set up like is on my Model 71 and my muzzlelaoder 300 yards and a bit more is very do-able.
What COAL will your '94 reliably cycle?
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/jaycocreek/FTXphoto.jpg)
Jayco
I modified my Model 64 pictured above to cycle a COAL of 2.73". I also modified my M94 356 Win to cycle 2.73".
This is EXACTLY what Mr. Scoville reported! That IF a cartridge was going to set off a primer, a hard cast flat nosed bullet was much more likely to do so than a spitzer.
My point proved all the more.
That Spitzer point bullets are now known to be completly safe in tubular magazines is no longer in question. This makes logical sense of one looks at how cartridges lie in a magazine tube when so loaded, when one thinks about the specific hardness of a primer cup VS a lead tip or even a plastic bullet tip, How much striking force and enrgy is needed to make a primer go off, and from EXTENSIVE experiments done by cridible authors or even editors of highly regarded magazines. My thread title was, in essence "Anyone here doing this much, yet? Looks like some here are, I will report my findings when I next get my hands on a shooter grade, pre safety Model 94 30/30 or similar.
What COAL will your '94 reliably cycle?
Jayco
I don't know yet as I have yet to build my 30/30AI but I am hoping that the shortish 130gr TTSX, when crimped in the uppermost groove, will cycle. If not I don't mind seating it deeper as neccesary to get it to run. One could, I suppose, even remove the plastic tip leaving a nasty looking hollow point X bullet with a still relatively high BC and lots of speed with the AI treatment. Might also need to use the non tipped Triple Shock bullet for OAL function. We shall soon see.
Anyone have a donor 30/30 they want to sell me or let me trade them out of? A Sears/Roebuck or other Model 94 clone would be fine, as well.
You should try a Savage 170 pump .30-30. I have been planning to use the Leverevolution in it but might have to try a 125 gr spitzer
I have loaded Nosler 125 BTs in my Marlin 30/30 but always just loaded 1 in the chamber and 1 in the mag. I have been thinking that I should be able to load a mag full of those as the recoil is pretty mild and there should be no way that plastic tip can set off a primer.
Andy
I can still shoot long distances pretty well with a peep. Iron sights not so much but with a good set up like is on my Model 71 and my muzzlelaoder 300 yards and a bit more is very do-able.
If your rifle/load is mechanically capable of making killing shots at 300 yds., a pointed bullet is not required to do it. I've killed several deer at distances between 200 and 250 yards and one at 314 yds. with handloaded 150 gr. rn core-lokts out of my old receiver sighted 94 .30-30. It helps to know your rifle and trajectory of your load like the back of your hand.
A Savage 99 is the answer to the question. More accurate than any 30/30 94 will ever dream of, comes in many configurations to suit any gun crank, shoot whatever bullet you want, go forth and exercise dominion over the earth and all the creatures on it.
I have had a few model 99's and wish I had one in 250/3000 again.
They are GREAT guns, but not as light and slim and handy as a model 94. Besides, you are getting entirely to logical for the tastes of any over the edge rifle looney <G>
Yuck, Savage 99's are uglier than homemade soap.
I have to say that is the first time I have seen the comparison of anything and homemade soup. Not sure if that means it actually looks ugly or if in a sarcastic way you are saying they are a beautiful gun,,,,,which they most assuredly are.
Plus I make a mean bowl of pumpkin soup, and it looks pretty darn good on the table in front of me.
MM
Yuck, Savage 99's are uglier than homemade soap.
Hey, we finally found someone who does not have the bug, yet. These chaps are especially useful in that any Savage 99 they come across is in no danger of going home with them. This makes them an excellent informant and someone to keep on your contact list. Say Blackheart, I wonder if you could be on the lookout for any (lightweight) model 99F's for me?
I have had a few model 99's and wish I had one in 250/3000 again.
They are GREAT guns, but not as light and slim and handy as a model 94. Besides, you are getting entirely to logical for the tastes of any over the edge rifle looney <G>
Yeah, you're right. Re-chamber a tired old Sears 30/30 and go shoot some 5" groups. Woohoo!
Hey, we finally found someone who does not have the bug, yet. These chaps are especially useful in that any Sears 30-30 they come across is in no danger of going home with them. This makes them an excellent informant and someone to keep on your contact list. Say Fireball2, I wonder if you could be on the lookout for any Sears's 30-30's for me? grin grin grin
Yuck, Savage 99's are uglier than homemade soap.
Just so you know you're not alone, I agree with you. There's only one thing uglier than a Savage 99...another Savage 99!
Glad I'm not the only one here with good taste. In the book of Blackheart, a proper lever gun has an exposed hammer and tubular magazine. All others are ugly pretenders. Period !
A proper .30-30:
![[Linked Image]](http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i414/yo-andrew/guns-009mn.jpg)
A proper .30-30:
A proper .30-30, part II
![[Linked Image]](http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5053/5397804600_37d738c8b3_z.jpg)
I've never entertained the thought of spitzers. This one shoots too good with Hornady 170 FPs to even think about something else.
I'm thinking if you could push a 120 tsx @ 2700 out of a 7-30 Waters it wouldn't suck.
A proper .30-30:
A proper .30-30, part II
I've never entertained the thought of spitzers. This one shoots too good with Hornady 170 FPs to even think about something else.
All joking aside, nothing wrong with a 30/30. They make a fine...uh...well, they work really good for um... that is they are splendid little...er.... They are light.
I've killed over 60 deer with my .30-30's and it's worked well every time. My Marlin is scoped and is an honest MOA rifle with it's favored loads. My receiver sighted 94 won't do quite so well but I can average just about an inch and a half at 100 and 4" at 200 with it.
I've killed over 60 deer with my .30-30's and it's worked well every time. My Marlin is scoped and is an honest MOA rifle with it's favored loads. My receiver sighted 94 won't do quite so well but I can average just about an inch and a half at 100 and 4" at 200 with it.
Excellent record and accuracy, more than good enough for anything within the range limitations of a 30/30. I'm just ribbing the 30/30 guys. I've got a couple myself, including a tiny little 1/2 magazine 16" model 94. Very handy little gun. I always end up hunting with something else, but not because these wouldn't work.
I've killed over 60 deer with my .30-30's and it's worked well every time. My Marlin is scoped and is an honest MOA rifle with it's favored loads. My receiver sighted 94 won't do quite so well but I can average just about an inch and a half at 100 and 4" at 200 with it.
Excellent record and accuracy, more than good enough for anything within the range limitations of a 30/30. I'm just ribbing the 30/30 guys. I've got a couple myself, including a
tiny little 1/2 magazine 16" model 94. Very handy little gun. I always end up hunting with something else, but not because these wouldn't work.
You are so despicable...read that, I am jealous.
If I was really interested in going the pointed bullet route in a tubular magazine I would run 1 in the chamber and 1 in the tube!
.
I ran pointed bullets in my Winchester 30-30 for years, using a Speer lead tip spitzer bullet. Never an issue (I didn't know better back then)
I later discovered that the round nose or flat nose bullet are better at lever gun velocities so I discontinued use of pointed bullets.
I didn't find any advantage with the Leverevolution ammo, another marketing ploy.
I was mosty checking to see if anyone else had read these articles and maybe started using some aerodynamic bullets for a change. Seems like not yet.
Since I started reloading, I usually use spitzers in my 30-30. Right now I'm on a FMJ kick... but I don't load them in my tube magazine, the COL is too long to cycle through the action.
It would be difficult, after fifty years of not loading pointy bullets in a tubular magazine, to use spitzers. I would probably flinch and its hard to shoot accurately when you hold the gun with one hand.
Sometimes you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
No, I'm retarded that way, I shoot flat nosed lead and jacketed bullets from my levers, I have scoped bolts to stretch range with.
Gunner
I just obtained the donor rifle, a homely - almost ugly - birchwood stocked but more importantly to me pre safety model 94 30/30 and a set of Redfield peep sights with a Lyman 17 Globe front sight set up. It will soon be my 30/.30AI with 130gr TTSX bullets experimental rifle.
10-4, I know you'll be careful Mark, but doesnt Hornady make safe pointy bullets for levers?
Gunner
They do, but I can run a 130TTSX much faster than a (apx) 165 Hornaday Flex tip, and it will hit harder and penetrate better. Plus, be different from anything else out there
I might even Moly them to help with speed a little, and I am DEFINATELY doing the Ultra Bore Coat treatment after I firelap and re chamber the barrel <G>
Buy a cheap 308 bolt or single action and load whatever you want.
They do, but I can run a 130TTSX much faster than a (apx) 165 Hornaday Flex tip, and it will hit harder and penetrate better. Plus, be different from anything else out there
The last I knew Hornady was making a 140 grain flex tip GMX bullet specifically for use in the .30-30. Those would likely be your best bet for combining high velocity with a mono metal bullet in your new lever action.
Once you have tried the Savage 99 and the rotary mag., You will lose interest in any tube magazine relic.
They do, but I can run a 130TTSX much faster than a (apx) 165 Hornaday Flex tip, and it will hit harder and penetrate better. Plus, be different from anything else out there
The last I knew Hornady was making a 140 grain flex tip GMX bullet specifically for use in the .30-30. Those would likely be your best bet for combining high velocity with a mono metal bullet in your new lever action.
Now THAT could be a cool opetion too! I had not heard that yet, thanks.
Once you have tried the Savage 99 and the rotary mag., You will lose interest in any tube magazine relic.
Snagged some dies, brass etc for that 250/3000 rifle headed my way at this weekends gun show. Also an older slightly purpled Loopy 2-7x32 that I think will look and work just right on it as well.
The 250/3000 has a different nich and scrathces an entirely different itch, however.
Fwiw...the 3030 has alot of unneeded case neck length. It can easily be trimmed back about .075" ....that's enough to let you seat many spitzers and still maintain a normal cartridge length. Heck that's what hornady does to get there leverevolution bullets to work...shorter brass from the factory. Still wouldn't load more than one in the barrel and one in the tube....maybe Bambi should go free if you can't connect in two shots.
Bambi is a stripper and hooker in New Orleans. I am thinkin Coyotes, Jackrabbits and such with deer as an occasional target when in season. Also Baboons at night with powerful spotlights in Zimbabwe. We are going to want mre than two rounds here, fellas
GREAT idea, however, on trimming back the necks to a more useful shorter length. I will definately try this method when I get the rifle (30/30AI wth Peep and GLobe sights) together and running right. THANKS for the tip!
A Savage 99 is the answer to the question. More accurate than any 30/30 94 will ever dream of, comes in many configurations to suit any gun crank, shoot whatever bullet you want, go forth and exercise dominion over the earth and all the creatures on it.
I have a Marlin that does fairly well at 100 yards. Here is a couple of 5 shot groups fired at a public range,....with several witnesses.
![[Linked Image]](http://i49.tinypic.com/14bs1s1.jpg)
I used spitzer bullets in a Model 94 30-30 for years. No mis-haps. Finally, I realized that blunt nosed bullets work better at the lower velocities. I see no advantage in spitzers or rubber tipped Hornady bullets. Use them if they work for you but do they?
.
Barking catfish Batman, that's a shooter! We'll be needing the contact info for the witnesses please...
I used Hornady 160 leverevolutions in my wifes 30/30 saddle gun to get a buck a few days ago. No bloodshot meat around the hole which was interesting. Moving too slow? I'm used to massive amounts of bloodshot I guess from 250 Ackley, etc. Speed kills but really messes things up in the process.
Barking catfish Batman, that's a shooter! We'll be needing the contact info for the witnesses please...
I used Hornady 160 leverevolutions in my wifes 30/30 saddle gun to get a buck a few days ago. No bloodshot meat around the hole which was interesting. Moving too slow? I'm used to massive amounts of bloodshot I guess from 250 Ackley, etc. Speed kills but really messes things up in the process.
Try massive speeds with Barnes TTSX's. Perfect combination of death ray lethality, uberflat trajectory yet easy on the meat. I have shot a pickup load or three of deer with a 257WBY custom (have built three such rifles) driving various itinerations of the Barnes X bullet at 3800 fps. Deer blaster nirvannah for me, anyways. It will be interesting to see how the Barnes 130's do at 30/30AI speeds.
JBledsoe, that is ONE HECKUVA fine rifle and group there! Congrats!
.
Hey Safariman.
The group above were a test of the rifle, not the shooter. I must confess, for testing of rifle and loads, I was using one of my 30X bench rest scopes on the rifle, a Marlin 38-55 CB. It's easy when you can see what you're doing.
.
Mark, I understand the spirit of your inquiry and applaud you for investigating. I've shot levers all my life and always doubted the "no spitzer' rule but figured I was just a dumb cowboy so I better err on the side of the caution. Please report back periodically on your results.
Mark, I understand the spirit of your inquiry and applaud you for investigating. I've shot levers all my life and always doubted the "no spitzer' rule but figured I was just a dumb cowboy so I better err on the side of the caution. Please report back periodically on your results.
Must not be too dumb, you get to live in Montana and haven't blown up any model 94's yet.
Mark, I understand the spirit of your inquiry and applaud you for investigating. I've shot levers all my life and always doubted the "no spitzer' rule but figured I was just a dumb cowboy so I better err on the side of the caution. Please report back periodically on your results.
Thank you, John;
The rifle in question is at the gunsmiths shop now, so we shall soon see how this all plays out. BTW, anyone who has read your book(s) knows that you are a LONG ways off from being a dumb cowboy! That 'Awww Shucks' stuff ain't flyin here
Well, bless your heart, but when it comes to technical stuff, as opposed to the artistic, I'm pretty slow on the uptake. Just the same, having shot lever-actions now for 50 years I never could imagine the recoil being so intense that it would ignite a bullet in the magazine. Whether or not there is any great ballistic gain between a spitzer and a round nose is another matter.