Have you ever been lost?

Have you ever had a crisis in the field?

What are some of your favorite tips for staying safe if things go wrong?

I am going to include a small flare this year, like the ones used in some car kits when you get stuck along the road. I got seperated from my party a couple of years ago in Wyo. I spent the night out in the snow 10 below and 35 mph winds. I was stubborn and the mistake I made was thinking they were...just over the horizon. They picked me up 14 miles away.

I think about this gentleman from time to time also. Kim

Kim
IMHO, was no superhero, he was superstupid.

But you don't get smart by being ignorant to survival. They had all they needed right there.

Jeff

The two tips I would offer would be fairly simple:

1. Have at least a basic survival kit with you at all times.
It doesn't stay in your car.
It doesn't stay at camp.
You don't drop it to make a stalk.

2. Know how to use (and have practiced using) all of the tools found in your survival kit.


Mr. Kim was not super-stupid. He simply didn't have any knowledge base to work with and so; he made the best decisions he could in his ignorance. Unfortunately, though not unexpectedly, those decisions resulted in his death.

One of the results of the excessive urbanization of our world is that very few people understand, respect, and can cope with the realities of nature.

Due to blood thinners I carry a first aid kit + coagulate. A couple of years ago I almost bled to death from a briar scratch on the top of my right hand. I was a mile from my car. I stopped the bleeding by holding my hand high in the air and calming down. If I'm in the woods, so is my first aid kit.

I am not brilliant when it comes to survival. I do at least know that much is to be said for shelter and all the tools available to the vehicle. That you have water, IE snow, and food isn't a worry at all, and that folks will come to find you eventually....

I should not have used the term stupid, ignorant is the correct term.

I'm with you on tips.... I carry survival to an excess ANYWHERE I go, save if we sat down to rest and took the packs off and I go 100 yards to look at something.... but the rest of the time, and thats how my wife and nephew are learning, it stays with you like its an appendage.
Water is a big issue, and fire is a big issue, beyond taht all is good. But of course I carry a spot system now days everywhere if its one of those hunts where the cell phone doesn't work.

Jeff

Not getting into a bad situation is the best way to survive. A GPS is a cheap, relatively reliable, and relatively easy to use piece of equipment that can save your butt when you are in an unfamiliar area. Get acquainted with your GPS, plan for it to run out of batteries, and mark the point you need to return to (camp, truck, boat, etc). Have a backup (compass) and know how to use that too.

Being in shape, and being out a lot (experience) help keep you out of trouble too. Getting lost a few times and getting yourself out will make you more confident in your equipment and less likely to panic. Trust your instruments - if you disagree with the compass, it's you that is wrong, not the compass.

Outside of that, a small survival kit that equips you for the weather/terrain you are hunting in is a good idea. Using the items from your kit in non-critical times makes you familiar with how they work and makes everything work better when you need it.

Oh, and when you buy a compass, buy a couple. Keep one in the kit, and one on you so you can check it all the time. And if you make a survival kit, make one for everyone in your family/party, just in case you get separated.

If you go prepared, and to me mental preperation is 10 times more important than the gear you carry, you should do ok. If you keep your wits about you, a knife and a means of starting a fire will allow you to survive a suprising amount of time in most locals.

I also remember the rule of 2's, as a ballpark you can survive:
2 weeks w/o food
2 days w/o water
2 hours w/o heat
2 minutes w/o air
2 seconds w/o your brain being engaged.

Hence, don't be stupid, it'll get you killed much more quickly than anything else. Know your limitations.

carry enough gear to survive a night or two in wet and cold conditions.

let someone know where you plan to go and when you will return.

Stay dry first, stay warm second, stay hydrated third. Don't worry about food unless you're really stuck out there for a day or two. Nothing wrong with thinking about food or scratching around for something but expending a bunch of energy initially or moving too far from where you are is not a good idea.

My biggest mistakes have come from overconfidence. A few years back I stalked an Elk trying to make sure he was a legal shooter (spike only area). After several hours I ran out of daylight. My focus had been on the Elk I failed to pay much attention to my surroundings. It was a beautiful night and I was almost giddy with how much fun I had even though I didn't close the deal. I assumed camp was just over the ridge, due east of me. When I reached the ridge I didn't see camp but I did see another familiar looking ridge on the skyline. I hiked to it. It was there I realized I had no idea where I was.

I was well prepared which gave me confidence and allowed me to make good choices. We hunt solo from a base camp so no one was worried about my whereabouts. I knew I was on my own. I stopped, had a bite to eat and considered my options. I made the choice weighing the potential danger of walking cross country in unfamiliar territory in the dark and wanting to have enough energy left to build a shelter. My gear gave me confidence and so I was never in a desperate situation. I was able to find my way back in camp after some map study and a couple of good guesses. I restocked the food and water and went hunting again.

Having the ability to make a good shelter is my highest priority. I carry a poncho, garbage bags, cordage, and a folding saw at least. I also carry at least one extra layer of clothes not counting rain gear. I have had it all on at once and it can still be a little chilly if you aren't moving.

A fire is very comforting. I have a number of means to make it in my pack.

Having some food and water helps keep the spirits up. Some sort of water purification is needed.

A few methods of signaling is important too.

FWIW:

This class was AWESOME!

http://www.oregonfirearmsacademy.com/courses/Wilderness%201.htm

BMT

Exactly. Preparation, planning, and getting the right equipment/knowing how to use it are all key. If you have all those, you won't panic and do something you shouldn't, which is how most people get into trouble. Have a plan on what you'll do if you have to spend a night or two out, and a big part of the plan is what's in your pack and how you'll use it. Practice your navigation skills and become proficient. Same with fire-starting and rigging a shelter.

In our hunter safety class we go over the basics. I always ask the youngsters if they watch "Man vs. Wild." They all raise their hands. Then we tell them that if they ever get into a survival situation, getting out of it the right way would be too dull and boring to put on TV. In other words, you wouldn't jump in that river and float down over the falls, you wouldn't try to catch that "wild" horse and ride him out bareback, you wouldn't waste time building snares or catching/finding the most disgusting raw snake meat or big old grub worms to eat, and and you wouldn't solo up that rock face with no rope--you'd find or build some shelter, make a fire, and stay put.

Close,

Stay warm first, then hydrated, You can be wet and stay warm, being wet definitley makes it harder to stay warm, but sometimes it is unavoidable to stay dry.

Try this,
On a nice day go out (not to far from cabin or truck) and make shelter and fire and spend the night with no food or water. If you make it through the night(without having to go back), how comfortable were you? how good was your shelter and wind block and fire? do it a few times till you get were you feel pretty confident, Then Try it in harder and harder conditions.

Lost in Cold - no problem (fire keeps you warm)
Lost in snow - no problem (snow makes great shelters)
Lost in wind - a little bit of a pain (blows body heat away and makes fire harder)
lost in rain - Now that just makes everything harder
combine them all and you got some fun

Tell me if you are lost, what good does a compass do you? it will tell you what direction you are going but if you don't know exactly where you are that doesn't do much good.

Lets say you went in the woods west of a trail head, but then got lost and ended up passing the trail head to the north, Now you look at your compass and go east becuase you went in west now you are just getting further and further north east of the trail head.

And a Map? if you don't know where you are on the map what good does it do you. I mean a lot of terrain looks the same, you can look at the contours on the map and say oh yeah I am in this draw, but there are three other draws witht the same contours.

Your Mind is your best tool when lost - SO DONT LOOSE YOUR MIND - LOL

It really isn't that hard, using a proper map and compass and getting to a high point where you can see the lay of the land, to figure out pretty much exactly where you are. This is an orienteering skill that they teach (or at least they used to teach) to kids in the Boy Scouts. The compass allows you to triangulate and verify your position based on the landmarks you can identify.

This is especially easy if you are in an area where you have some basic familiarity of the overall terrain but, it is not terribly difficult even if you have never been in the area before.

This is where knowledge, skill, and practice comes in. The map and the compass are only as useful as the person using them. The individual contours may look similar for a given set of draws when looking just at the map but, their position relative to other prominent landmarks, verifiable with the compass, will not be.

Exactly you are getting to a high point and seeing where you are not using a map and compass.

What if you cant get to a high point the you are in deep dark timber or swamp??



Again getting to a high point.

I am with you but I throw away the compass and map (waste of my time) and just go for the high point.

There may be some places where you can see a distinct land mark that will show up on a map, but there will be many more without, where one rolling hill looks like another , or one draw looks like another , and a lot of times they repeat them selves oriented in the same direction so that does you no good. And where you cant find a high point to refrence yourself from.

So recommending the average person take a map and a compass doesn't do much good, even trained and practiced, a compass and a map can be worthless if you cant identify one definite landmark to start with.

If you go in the woods with the general lay of the land/ nearest main road, trails(if any) you can use stars,sun,moss,vision and find your way out.

I will consede that in the proper hands and with identifiable landmarks they can be useful. But as you can see I despise them -lol- just stubborn (thats what mamma always tells me)

The average person in the woods is dangerous. And generally has no business in them. I even saw a writer for Petersons hunting come walking out of wilderness one evening, he'd came in from one side and back out at a meeting place. All I saw on him were a rifle and a canteen...... geez...

Maps, with any type of instruction and some sense, are the only foolproof way to go, except when you can't see... but I won't go anywhere without some type of map and compass. You see I"m not worried so much in survival situation about intersecting a trailhead, I'm looking at the big picture, get a general location and direction and head to the closest large target road that you can get to.

I don't go without 2 compass, 1 map, and 1 GPS and a SPOT these days. I rarely use GPS to do more than mark spots and verify, I land navigate with the map and dead reckoning and its all been good so far.

My initial screw up many years ago was leaving to chase horses at dark, and not taking anything with... and then not believing a compass ... which stubbornly led to an almost all night hike around a mountain top and then stayed out the last few hours.....after that I don't leave home without some shelter,fire, water and clothing, along with nav gear. Plus always some oatmeal or the like.....It weighs but I haven't been uncomfortable except one time when I learned a space blanket might save your life but isn't keeping you comfortable. And even then we could have been fine but didn't want to light a fire as bowhunters were after elk there and didn't want to spook the game for them.

Jeff

I guess that is what you would be saying if you saw me, I may have my daypack or fanny pack to put my warm gear in when I am to hot and to carry my lunch (MRE usually).

Don't you know the general lay of the land when you walk in? (direction, road, which way the mountain range is, where the creeks and rivers flow etc)?

And I am lighting the fire my survival and warmth comes before the scant possibility I might scare an animal away from a fellow hunter. Who knows it might scare one to them.

It may have all started when I was a kid and bought a compass and went hunting with the old man. I pulled out the compass and he looked at me and said "what the hell is that? you don't need that if you cant find your way in and out of the woods you don't belong there."

Come on guys, You know you don't "NEED" all that sh%$*%#. If you dropped your pack off a cliff or it washed away down the river, you would make do and get out. We are Outdoorsmen Right?

Yes, you're (sort of) right. We don't probably "need" some of the stuff we carry.

Personally though, I don't have a "Bear Grylls" mentality. Nor am I trying to figure out just how much I can endure and still survive.

I like having the skills, knowledge, and basic gear necessary to COMFORTABLY spend an unexpected night out.

I do agree with you however that, I am lighting my "survival" fire. Bowhunters be hanged.

Great post. One of my "favorite" episodes was with him running down a icy/snowy chute without any idea what was around the corner. Another was with him climbing up a cliff face using some type of vines.

Ridiculous

He was free-soloing a rock face once, supposedly without a rope and I told my son "he has to be using a rope." A few seconds later, we saw the rope flash on the screen for just an instant. My son re-wound and we saw the rope clearly. That's taking it beyond ridiculous to just plain BS--pretending that you're free-soloing up out of a box canyon when you're really roped up the whole time. And should have just walked out the other end anyway. Dishonest too.

Sorry for the tangential rant, carry on.

My pack has a detachable "kit" that has an attachable shoulder strap. I have this set up as my primary survival kit. It stays on my hunting pack at all time when I'm using that pack, and if I switch to another pack, it goes in/on that pack, or is carried solo.

It has a 1st aid kit, 3 different fire making tools, emergency blanket, an extra compass, folding saw, etc. I have a small bubble compass on the strap of my binoculars as they're always around my neck as well.

1st issue for me when I think I'm "lost" is sit down and think. Being prepared to spend/survive the night in the woods always allows me to think clearer and make much better/safer decisions.

Mike.

I'd say it all depends on your level of expertise. For the Average Joe, the best thing you can do is look for shelter and stay put until found as you may only just get yourself in further trouble. For those that have the equipment, knowledge, and experience, then you might think about finding food. Honestly, if you expect to spend a lot of time in the wilderness, I feel it would behoove you to at least read up on survival, build a kit, and camp with it in a scenario where you know where you are, though I would say take a course if you can.

The more time you spend in the wilderness, the greater the chance you will someday find yourself in a survival situation and it doesn't even have to be through stupidity or getting lost. There are a myriad of other ways you can get stuck in a survival situation, from inclement weather to injury to impediment (you never know when a rockslide or flood might force you to take an entirely different route that makes your day hike take two).

spent a night out or three without much in the way of gear.

I'm with others that said they'd prefer a dab of gear to make it a more comfortable experience.

I'd like to think I could make it back to wherever I need to be barring an injury that left me immobile.

but dang I sure do hate to think of losing my fire makings and knife, what a pizzer.

amazing to me the comfort and security that can reside in a small fanny or daypack. worth the weight to me.

that said, there's always redundant firemakings in my pockets and an opinel knife.


stay safe, and if you find that too much to ask, at least make it a good story for the rest of us to read about!

I'd like to think so as well, though there may come a point where I realize that the new route I'm forced to take is going to take far longer than I have endurance for and/or require me to hike through the dark of night. At that point, I'd rather seek shelter, start a fire and try to rest until day break and finish the trek in the morning.

I agree with AlaskanFlyboy--there are other ways to end up surviving besides getting lost whilst hunting or hiking. And studying all kinds of survival could help anyone.
Airplanes crash, skiers stray, floaters flip their boats, vehicles break down, boats sink, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc. etc. So surviving comes down to your knowledge and expertise in these varying situations and so I read everything I can on land and sea survival, whether stories or technique, because I need the info to know how to avoid these situations or how to survive them.
One of the best tools that I have found so far is the Woodsmaster series of DVD's from Ron Hood, www.survival.com , it's the next best thing to being there and with the videos you can watch over and over and then go out and practice.
It is one thing to have all the right stuff in your kit, and the kit with you at all times, but its another to be able to use the stuff to survive the many possible scenarios that you could find yourself in.

I live in Spokane which has Fairchild AFB, the center of the USAF's SERE (Survive, Evade, Resist, Escape) school and I have a good number of buddies I've met from church that are instructors in it. In fact, I'm going to the wedding of one of them today. I've learned a bit from them, but they're definitely not the stay-put-and-be-found types which requires that I take some of their advice with a grain of salt. These are the guys that train to eat bugs and half raw rabbits for protein while trying to stay hidden and on the move. They've offered to take me out for survival training before because they all enjoy the heck out of it, but I kinda chickened out at the prospect of eating earth worms, grubs, ants, and maggots. Learning to snare small game would have been interesting to learn though.

I've also read the US Army Survival Manual and it has a lot of tips on how to survive should you get lost, cut off, or have your transport crash. Again though, the focus in that book is on surviving in a situation where you have more than just search-and-rescue trying to find, you have search-and-destroy also looking for you.

And I was actually just mentioning things beyond your control that can happen while hunting or hiking besides getting lost, but you're right RazorSharp. When I lived in Alaska, there were couple of times that I spent days in blizzards with a propane heater for heat, oil lamps for light, and luke warm water out of old milk jugs. Thank God we had a natural gas stove and those things still somehow work without power in the region, so at least cooking wasn't a chore. I was a kid then, and part of any family's home survival kit should include a generous selection of board games and stories or else you'll likely strangle your children within the first few hours.

Ditto to above. I developed and refined my list of always-carry gear while on long cold nights wishing I had one or a few specific items, some of which didn't exist off the shelf so I have cobbled up.

There's some good info here on the forum. I just came in last night from a few days soloing out of my rig in mountains over 50 miles from pavement, hunting whitetails among grizzlies. In my pants/shirt pockets were ALWAYS a knife, two Bic lighters and a compass. In my Gorte-tex jacket were always a fleece toque (stocking cap) and gloves. Always other stuff as well but these items never varied. I normally have neck gaiters in the jacket also but the vest I wore all the time this trip zips up to the equivalent, so the neck gaiters stayed in my day pack along with more fire starters, space blacket, cord, etc.

I also like the wristlets, and wish I knew where to find more when my Turtle Fur pair wear out or I lose them. Mine extend just past the knuckles on my hand and have a thumb hole.

Three topics quoted: 1. compass, 2. what if you miss your destination and keep going on the compass heading, and 3. maps.

1. I felt the same about a compass until I moved to Canada and started hunting places where the nearest road in three directions might be several hundred miles away. Those are often in flat or rolling timber and bog country where I've never met anyone who could retain his sense of direction, especially in fog, etc. I started hunting with a superb hunter and friend, a good old boy who grew up in the US backwoods disdainfull of a compass but who had learned to use it routinely in Canada.

Once I got to using a compass to navigate TO a good hunting spot (not just find my way out) it became a regular hunting tool, useful for finding down game, the starting point of a blood trail across a lake or canyon, and yes, back to my camp or rig. I use a compass for hunting as casually as a pocket knife.

The following comments go into how a compass can do you some good even if you don't know where you are, at least if you used your head enough to have a general idea of where you are I.e. "I am west of the Colockum Road no farther at most than I walked since I left my vehicle."

2. What if you miss the end of a road with your compass heading? Very bad. Unless you have a wider "backstop" target destination beyond the road, like a river or another road you can't miss.

I nearly died once when I depended on returning to the end of a straight road on a vast plateau of moose swamp and spruce timber. Soo... I never go out into such a place without either one of two rules in place. First and preferable is a backstop I can't miss no matter how lost I get. I.e. a logging road that runs generally north and south for 50 miles each way from where I am hunting off of it. If I am east of that main road, any westward compass course will hit it, even if I miss the spur road where my rig is parked. Second, if no such backstop exists, then I strictly stick with compass headings from known points on my way in and out. I don't like that method because it doesn't allow me to roam at random, follow game without keeping track of where I am, etc. but it works.

None of this applies if you have identifiable mountains and streams, etc. Try that on a timbered plateau 12 miles across that seep drains its threads of swamps off three sides, no peaks in any direction, in heavy overcast.

GPS? Very useful, but I don't trust my life to batteries, and have a fail safe compass plan to back it. My favorite moose area is undulating swamp and THICK timber for miles, but has roads the full length along two sides of it that intersect on the northwest "corner" of it. I can track moose, wander where wind and good hunting lead me, and whenever I want out, I pull out a compass preset to a northeast heading and follow it out. If I think that I am closer to the northern boundary road, I may change the heading to due north. But any compass heading between due north and due west will take me to a familiar road, so I don't even have to be precise in following the heading.

3. I have rarely used a map in finding my way out from being lost, but I use topo maps constantly in several hunting situations. To me, the topo map is a hunting tool. In most hunting situations on foot, unless it is a familiar small block of timber bounded by roads, my hunting companions and I each keep a topo map in a Zip-lock bag, prefolded to show the area we are without opening the Zip-lock. We've killed several critters from moose to elk, deer and one cougar, by picking terrain features off the map to hunt. You can navigate to a pre-selected spot, hunt a route (maybe a forked ridge or creek line) from there to to the next place or improvise as you compare map to features on the ground when you get there, etc. If you use it that way, when it comes to being lost or finding your way out, either you already know where you are on the map because you kept track, or you have it narrowed down to a few places you could be on the map.

A map and compass are tools similar to a rifle, their usefulness greatly depends on the expertise of the user. If lost, I would recommend finding at least three unique landmarks to try and find on your topo map. The more you look for around you, the less likely you are to mistake them for similar landmarks. Also, use the compass to find north so you know what direction these things would be running on your map. It's harder to find a stream with a unique bend in it or a ridge with three distinct peaks in it when you don't know if they're running more north-south or east-west.

The one thing that months fallowing the closing of deer/elk hunting seaons are especially good for that can not be said of the rest of the year is it is the best time to put your knowledge of survival and your survival gear to the actual test in the feild during the weather you are most likely to encounter while hunting.

I have always advised to anyone who hunts, but especially so to anyone who hunts in the mountains to once seasons over, pick a night that will be dominated by bad weahter, ie: cold, snow or rain or a mix of both and even high winds. Go to a area of woods that allows camping and find an area with in a short walking distance of your vehicle and using only your survial gear, spend the night out of doors.

It is truely THE only way you will be able to determine if your capable of surviving, determine what equipment you picked works, how well it works or does not, as well as finding out if any survival plan you may have drawn up is practicle and will work.

The first time you ever have to actually spend the night out of doors in the hunting woods should never ever, ever be because you have no choice in the matter. Several practice sessions done prior will be of value beyond calculation if you ever find yourself in a situation of having to unexpectedly spend the night or nights out of doors.

I started out with my first session on a cold moonless January night that got down to around 20*. I then moved on up to nights that were as cold but with it snowing, and than fallowed that with a night that was raining and just above feezing.

Let me tell you it opened my eyes to the reality of just how easy one can die from over exposure to the elaments if not properly prepaired for them. It also went a looooooong way to remove the so called "boogie man" elament of fearing the unknown once you have spent the night out of doors in poor weather and did it well enough to have confidence you could do it with little concern about your serviving.

Bottom line is THE ONLY, repeat, ONLY WAY you can become good at any skill and learn how to do something with confidence is by actually doing it.

Ageed, wholeheartedly. The rule of 6 Ps. Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. Plan, then test, then revise your plan, then test your new arrangement. Planning is first and foremost in your head. That is your most important survival gear.

Years back, a my hunting bud and I purposely failed to return to the truck that night because we decided to test our knowledge and gear. To make life fun, we swapped packs. It was a good lesson for both of us, and has helped me more than once.

Below is a picture of what I might typically be in my pack for a day out in the NY or Maine woods (Aroostook or Penobscot Counties). Some of you might find it to be overkill, but I take comfort knowing that I could survive a night in the woods (or several) when the temps. dip below the freezing mark. Obviously, gun or bow, ammo, WARM clothing, scarf, spare hat/gloves etc. are in addition to what's in the photo. I should also mention that for the possibility of an extended stay out in the wilderness, a light weight single wall tent, stove and gas lantern would also be in my pack (Gaz brand is my preferred brand).

I accidentally cut off the right side of the pic., so i'll list my suggested items:

*50 - 100' of light cord (parachute) uses= support for shelter, hanging food/gear
in a tree, etc.

*20-30' of heavier rope uses= game drag/hoist

*leatherman tool = pliers, file, knife blade, file, etc.

*folding saw w/bone & wood blade = firewood, make a crutch, "header poles" for
shelter. quartering an animal, etc.

* 2 knives (I show 2 sheath knives, but 1 folder/ 1 sheath will work obviously) & SHARPENER

* Water (i usually pack 2 bottles and keep one on my person, so it does not become a block of ice. (i will sometimes carry a juice box too). For exteneded trips i'll pack my Katadin water purifier & iodine tablets (NOT IN PHOTO)

*First Aid Kit. = It might be overkill, but I carry my Adventurer medical kit. I regularly go through the kit to replace out of date or used items (cut off in photo)

*2 flashlights and spre batteries/ bulbs (my choice is a Surefire 6P and 4xAA dive light)

*RED safety strobe and Cyalume light sticks = not that traveling through the woods at night is a good idea, but sometimes (animal down, health emergency) it's neccessary and the light sticks and strobe can be seen from a great distance (light sticks also save battery power in a shelter)

*TOPO Map of area, COMPASS and GPS (spare batteries double for flashlight/GPS..... AND the knowledge of how to use them. I grew up in a pre-GPS world, so traveling by map/compass and a SMALL amount of "dead wreckoning" have gotten me out of more than one situation over the years. PAY ATTENTION TO LANDMARKS!

*AT LEAST 2 (3 is better) ways of starting a fire. My buddy carries a Zippo, but it's just too stinky in my opinion. I have had Bic lighters fail in extreme cold, so one is always in a inside pocket, close to my body. Wooden matches and a fire starting flint (not in photo) are also a good idea.

*ORANGE marking ribbon (several yards) & glow tacks = enable you to leave a trail should someone need to follow you, or if you need to backtrack.

*Food. = While we all know you would not die from starvation in a day or two, but cliff bars, Kudos, or the like will allow you to keep your energy up and fight off the cold. (a squirrel or rabbit over an open fire tastes pretty good too)

*Red Bandana = signaling, nose blowing etc.

*small amount of TP and or paper towels for when nature calls (don't go waving it around during hunting season..... i have yet to find orange or camo TP..... maybe the next Cabela's catalog? :-))

*ORANGE PONCHO/2 large plastic garbage bags = rain gear, shelter roof/walls ( I also carry 4 clothes pins and a SMALL amount of DUCT tape for shelter building.

*Writing pad/ pen(s) and or pencil(s) = leaving a note should someone come looking for you (include time/date, health condition, game plan, phone numbers to contact, etc.)

*Game cleaning gloves/ cheese cloth = self explanitory

*several packs of "Hot Hands" or the like. Hand, feet, body warmers

*Space blanket = inexpensive, light weight & reflects most of your body heat back to you.

* FRS radio / earpiece (nothing worse than beeping & booping when your in the woods



Now, I know that many of you could school me in survival skills, but this is just my personal opinion for over 30 years of deer hunting. I have heard horror stories at hunting camps of grown men panicing when lost at dusk in the woods. One story even involved a man that dumped all his gear and stripped naked (insane panic?) and was found (luckily) that way by the rescue party.

Like a float plan when boating in the Ocean, It's a MUST to let people know in advance where you plan to go/be/return from a trip, as when going out in to the wilderness without anyone knowing your whereabouts, something as treatable as a broken arm or leg could mean death.

In addition to what i've listed, personal medication, sun block (scentless), bug spray, sunglasses, extra rounds of ammo are JUST SOME of the things you may want to include in your kit.

Best wishes to all for a safe hunting season and a very Happy Thanksgiving! -TomT

Good list, Tom. Thanks for sharing.

One thing that I carry is a 1 pound coffee can with a bail, some sugar and tea bags, and a couple of bread sacks stuffed in the can (along with other junk, too). Warmth is important and if you can get warmth into you, you're better off. So, I have the billy can to heat water and make tea, and for the quick energy, I put in the sugar.

The bread sacks are to keep the water in the can when I haul it from the creek to where my bivouac is. I put the sack in the can, then fill up the can and tie the sack at the top. That way I still have a full can of water when I get back to my fire; it hasn't all slopped out over the top of the can. With just a little fiddling, I can pull out the bread sack and leave just the water in the can.

As I mentioned in another thread on the forum, it helps to have a secondary survival kit on your person in case you somehow lose your pack. It wouldn't be one nearly as comprehensive as the one in the pack, but it would be enough to get you by. One like this would do, though I would personally add a trash bag or two and a small roll of duct tape, some wire and twine. This has more of the items I feel are missing out of the other, but I don't like the tin foil, no matter how "heavy-duty" they claim it to be. I'd replace it with trash bags or a space blanket. You could likely fit the two together for a good kit within the first kit's plastic case with it fitting tightly enough to eliminate any noise.

TomT - How much does that all weigh?

One of these full of storm matches and a decent knife would be my minimal for a pocket.

kevinh1157.

Very good question. Although i've never dropped my daypack on a scale, I bet it has to weigh everybit of 15-20lbs when loaded. It's certainly not a bag I would carry for a day on a small piece of property (50-200 acres), but if i'm headed out into the "BIG WOODS".... i'm only too happy to haul it. The bag doesn't bother me, as i'm used to hauling a 20+ pound pack daily with laptop, battery, power cord, i-phone, etc for work every day. What does slow me down is if i'm packing my Summit / Viper treestand (about 20 lbs give or take) as well as my rifle and survival gear. I usually strap my daypack "inside" my stand and wear the shoulderstraps for my stand. I used to try to put my survival gear in my jacket pockets and just take the stand, but it was too bulky. It's taken me years to come up with my personal favorite setup. I'm 41, so i'm obviously on the downside of my strength curve. Hell, in my 20's, I used to carry a steel climbing stand that was over 45lbs by itself (both 1/2's of stand). I don't think I could do that anymore. I've also become very good at reducing layers, so I can move without getting overheated, and add layers as needed (my daypack and/or treestand usually have my extra clothing lashed to it)

I forgot that I just bought a new fish scale (boats out of the water till next April :-( ) so I just weighed my pack and rifle:

daypack (items listed in above post by me), 6 extra rounds .300 Savage, prussix rope for stand, "tree umbrella" (the camo type that does 270degrees or so & wraps around tree above my stand) and a styrofoam filled hot seat (don't always hunt from stand) comes in at around 18lbs. My post WW2 Savage 99F (22"barrel) with a b&l 2.5-8 scope weighs in at 7.5 lbs and the treestand is listed (on the Net) at 20 lbs so...........

Daypack = 18 lbs
rifle = 7.5 lbs
stand = 20 lbs
___________________________
total carry = 45.5 lbs


Sounds like alot, but my stand moves very little (if at all) during the season, so it's really included for a haul in- haul out only.

There are a few additional things that I wanted to mention that I omitted in my lengthy item list last time (more for beginners than you hard core guys):

Pine bows make for a good bed when cut and piled up under a shelter. They can also be used for a shelter cover. They smell good, but expect them to be a bit sticky.

The bark of the White Birch tree will burn even when wet (something to do with cellulose). If need be put a couple of pieces of the bark close to your body to dry it a bit, but it will work.


-TomT

In a nutshell...

Once you are lost 50 or 60 times, with the appropriate gear, it ain't no big deal....

Never lost...just turned around.

Hello guys,

here s the one i learnt some years ago and this is still the method used as a good training for future guides ...

ok let s take us going in the forest in mid-december in Qu�bec you ll get snow, winds and sometimes freezing weather ...up to minus -4 farhenheit (sp ?) or -20�C ...

you ll remain there three nights not alone but with a colleague and every 4 hours someone will check you but not giving anything ... and the top will be that you ll go there with only everything you can pick-up in a tiny metal can ... and you ll be given a folding saw.

you ll have to build a fire, a shelter and a signalisation fire (you ll light it the last days ...) .
you ll dont have a sleeping bag and only the clothes you have with you ..

the can will help empty to boil water ...

the lessons learnt is : wood is heavy at the end of the second day and rabbits are easier to catch on a trapline than those specific days ...

good excercises isnt it ?

and if you re going on guided hunts in Qu�bec there is a lot of chances your guide have pass it. in the same time of course our english is not that good ... and three days with my lovely accent is the best survival lesson lol ....

see you. and seasons greetings.

ps : and i have marine bucket used while in boat i can try in some days to picture it and show items that are inside ... just in case ...

I'd respectfully disagree. I'd say this is the kind of statement that leads to macho posturing that gets people lost, hurt or dead.

Yes, I'm an Outdoorsman, but I'm a father and husband first. A few items and pounds difference makes one man merely survive and the next prevail.

I believe it was AlaskaFlyboy who mentioned the USAF's SERE School at Fairchild A.F. Base near Spokane, Washington.

If anyone is interested in seeing what they do just for the "Survival" portion of their SERE training, go to this link and scroll down until you see the eight episodes listed. Click on "Number One," then after watching it, "Number Two," etc. There are eight episodes.

http://www.hulu.com/survival-school

Enjoy.

L.W.

There is also the fun factor of setting up an ER day pack. Good to know you can spend a night out if need be and not curl up like a frozen rat.

Also some of this stuff is just good to have. Went fishing the other day and got frozen feet due to just using rubber boots and normal socks. However had a pair of fleece socks in the day pack. Made for a better trip. Then there was the time a rock slab let go under my leg. The First Aid kit helps not that I was going to die. Also the time an Ex girlfriend broke her leg with me on a hike. The cell phone helped big time. Got turned around a few years ago and needed my poncho. Bad stuff just happens. Often the worse stuff never happens and is never known because the right decisions were made at the right time.

I spent a few years in the US Army, and spent a lot of time
"camping" in the woods. I wasnt SF or a Ranger, but knew
a few guys that were, and they always said when lost or
having to spend the night in the woods, that the most
important thing was keeping your cool.

TomT,

Good list and I'm finally getting around to responding, though I thought of it the first time you posted. Your list is excellent for you, no question. If someone wants a lighter and more compact packet of survival gear, I've made some suggestions below as to how to lighten/reduce your list without significant loss of safety.

I'll only comment on components that I would change or leave out:

--Omit the rope. I've dragged massive northern mule deer as big as they get with doubled parachute cord and a foreleg cut off and tied as a hand hold.

--Omit the Leatherman. ( I have a knife and will be carrying very little crucial gear that the leatherman tools could repair that I can't repair with knife, etc.)

-- Take a much lighter saw ONLY if I plan to cut antlers from a skull. Otherwise leave the saw behind.

--Omit the two large knives and take only one small light weight lock blade folder knife.

--Omit the sharpener unless you will be gone at least four days, and make it a small, lightweight portion of hard Arkansas stone or other small, light sharpener to touch up the edge. No need for tools to reshape the edge.

--Take one small lightweight flashlight, and one mico light just enough to walk with if the main light fails, and enough to change batteries in the main light.

--One set of extra batteries for each, hopefully AAA or smaller.

--Omit the bandana. For cleaning glasses, I carry a small swatch of optical lens cleaner cloth sealed in my TP zip loc.

--I don't carry safety strobes nor usually water, but I hunt wet country most of the time. I've taken to carrying an empty water filter bottle for drinking from sources along the trail.

I like the way you took the orange flagging tape off the roll for a lighter and more compact carry.

The rest he items are either needed or purely personal preference. I carry clothes pins only when calling predators, to rig impromptu blinds with ultra light camo cloth. They don't hold much in strong wind. Predator calling is the only time other than for antlers that I carry a small saw, purely for environmental reasons, to cut limbs and improve nature at my stand site.








--

One of my favorite quotes, attributed to a mountain man whose name I forget:

"I've never been lost, but I've been powerful confused for a month or two."

That one always makes me laugh.

disorentied works too ...!!!

+1

My own multiplier is currently under review for its worthiness as an "everyday" piece of gear. It is great under some circumstances but, like you've said, a knife is really quite capable of handling most repairs.

The saw I carry is one of the blades on my Victorinox Fieldmaster. I have used it to saw antlers off skulls, to split the pelvis bones of animals up to the size of elk, and of course for getting wood. Definitely among my favorites.

AMEN. Two large fixed-blade knives is definitely unneeded. I sometimes carry one (a Buck Alpha Hunter) but, most of the time I stick with a Bucklite folder.

I have to disagree here. I definitely like having a good sharpener along. I've too often needed to touch up my blade in the field to ever leave it at home.

+1


I carry no spare batteries. All my lights are LEDs and I switch out the batteries every season. (I use the ones being replaced for my kids' toys.) If one of my lights goes bad, it won't be because of battery drainage.
+1, again

Definitely no to the safety strobes but, where I hunt, carrying water is not a choice, it's an absolute necessity.

+1


I've posted my personal survival-gear system here:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2551821/page/1/fpart/5

Here's a little survival tip my dad taught me many years ago, back when I first started tagging along behind him in the woods.

I'm 54 years old, never even owned a compass until 8 or 9 years ago, and to this day I've never been lost while out in the woods. I've spent numerous days in all kinds of weather, in many different parts of the country - swamps, flatlands, rolling hills, mountains, and deserts. I've often times taken off either on foot or on a mule and covered many miles in search of new hunting grounds. Sometimes I'm out for only a day, sometimes I may be gone for 4 or 5 days. Most of the time I don't even bother with carrying a map, much less a compass. Not sure how many individuals I've come across in my lifetime, that were turned around and not sure where they were, usually wanting directions on how to find a certain trail or road back to their camp. Hopefully my little tip will help someone out in the future, and its one I think we should teach all of our kids. Its so simple most people probably would never think about it - its called turning around.

Thats it, no big deal, its not high tech, its not hard, its just common sense. Before heading out turn slowly around, all 360 degrees, and note where you're standing. Pick out landmarks and the lay of the land from where you are currently standing. Notice everything that could be of value, a hill, an old tall dead tree, a creek, an odd shaped boulder up on a hill, the position of the sun - these types of things. Then head out, but don't just head out never looking back from where you just came from. As your walking your constantly viewing new country and your mind will remember what it looks like, but only from the view you get heading in that specific direction. But you also need to turn around often and take a gander at what it looks like from the opposite direction and also off to both sides also. Depending on the terrain and how often it changes, you should be stopping and turning around and allowing the ol' brain to take in the view from the opposite direction. Because if you never do that, five miles down the trail when you decide to turn around and head back for the first time, its not going to look familiar. Make sense?

Take it from someone who's done this all his life, it works. Please teach this to your kids, and bring it up often to remind them, it very well could save their life someday. I make a game out of it with my two young sons, I'm always taking them out and purposely zig zagging, or cutting circles as we're covering country. Then I'll stop and ask them each to point in the direction the truck or camp is in. When I first started doing this, they didn't pay a whole lot of attention to where "they" were going, and sometimes they'd guess 180 degrees off. After all they were just following dear ol' dad, and surely he knew where he was at. The more we played the game, the better they got at it until now its pretty hard to get them turned around no matter how hard I try and confuse them. I'm not saying don't teach them how to use a compass or a map. What I am saying is teach them how to return to camp when they don't have one, because someday they may not have anything with them besides the gray matter between their ears.

I like that Slymule. I call it "staying found." Start out familarizing yourself, or refamilarizing yourself, each time you go out and stay that way. If, at any time, I develop any doubt as to where I am, which way I came, or how to get back, I do whatever I must to locate myself. That means using a good map and compass. BTW, this process starts right at the trailhead before I start walking. Look around. Look for tracks, etc.
I don't carry half and maybe 1/4 of the stuff of some who have posted here. But I have used it overnight, one way or the other.
I'd add 7 hr. tear open hand warmers, and a poncho that can double as a shelter.
I don't need a second compass because I know how to use the stars or the sun to tell directions. In fact, I rarely use mine because all I have to do is look around.
For those that don't know, at night, find the Big Dipper. The two stars on the outside of the cup form a line. Follow that line away from the top of the cup to the north star. It is always true north from you. The BD revolves around it as the night progresses. During daylight, the sun at noon is in the south in the northern hemishere during the fall months. Your shadow points north. It rises and sets only at true west and east on the solstice. The rest of the time it is either above or below those directions. Learn where it does this at various seasons by using your compass.
Notice if you are leaving footprints and what your fresh tracks look like. When it's time to go home, the surest way is to follow them out. I'd be very careful about taking shortcuts. If I'm on a steep mountain, the cardinal rule is you go down the way you went up. 80% of the injuries that occur while mountaineering occur while descinding. E

Slymule and Eremicus have posted a goldmine of the most basic and valuable orientation concepts. Staying found, reading direction from stars and sun, etc. are universals. Maps, compass, GPS etc. are all supplements to the basics.

I'm smiling here, Slymule, but would love to try your sense of direction in a place like the Canadian Shield country or one of the vast northern plateaus of spruce and swamp. Some people have a superb innate sense of direction and place, and others are bereft. I've long wondered how good the best of the innate direction finders are, with no way to really test it. I've never yet met anyone with a fool proof sense of direction, not even among Native trappers and guides, etc. but suspect that maybe there are people who have unerring sense of direction, like some species of birds.

I'm always taking in the 360 degree view as well, but wouldn't ever use that as my only means of navigation. Where I hunt is heavy timber and extreme weather changes.

When the fog or snow roll in I may not be able to see 50 yards, so my compass is my primary navigator as I may not be able to see the marker that is 1/4 mile away.

To each their own, but I never go in the woods without at least 2 compasses, a map and my GPS. I mark my vehicle on the GPS and typically leave it off for most of the trip.

Okanagan, I too have always wondered why I've never been lost and others I've known can seem to get lost in 40 acres. I know we can rule out genetics because twice I've had to go find my dads younger brother when he got lost while hunting with me in Colorado. This was in an area that I would of thought completely impossible to get lost in, with all the choices of varying terrain and landmarks. I remember another time when I was 12 years old and deer hunting with him and my dad in Pennsylvania. It was bitterly cold out that morning and I had to finially give up my stand and track down my dad, so I could get the car keys and go warm up my frost bit hands. I ran across my uncle on the way back to the car and he asked me where I was going, I told him back to the car. He said he was heading back there too, only thing was, he was heading in the wrong direction. He wouldn't listen to me, we argued for ten minutes, him trying to convince me, me trying to convince him which direction we had left the vehicle. My hands were hurting so bad by that time I finially said I'm leaving and going this way, told him I'd honk the horn for him when I got there. I remember him telling me 'you're gonna be sorry, the cars this way'. Well, it was about an hour after dark when he finially showed up at the car, he came out on a road about 6 miles from where we were parked and somebody gave him a ride back to us - I walked out within 50 yards of our vehicle about 7 hours earlier.

Okanagan, I don't know what your swamps are like but I've been coonhunting many nights in the swamps of Alabama and Georgia. Never had a compass, didn't even own one at that time, and I never got lost. When you're following hounds at night you're often going all over the place to get a coon treed. I do know that when I hunted with other guys, they always had a compass with them. I remember a competition hunt one night that everyone owned a compass but me. Three of us ended up splitting up from another hunter and the guide. We had been to three different trees before we split up. When time was up and the hunt ended both of the guys I was with had forgotten to take a compass reading at the last tree we had made, they didn't have a clue which way the truck was. It took me awhile to convince them I knew where it was because they both knew I didn't have a compass, I remember they argued with me all the way back to the truck - "this can't be right, I don't remember coming this way". I told them we didn't, I was just taking a short cut. They were both dumbfounded when we walked out of the woods within a few yards of the truck. I couldn't believe they actually didn't have a clue which direction we left the truck,we couldn't of been more than a mile and a half from it at the furthest point all night.

Based on what I've seen and done, I probably have a good sense of direction. But I do not rely on it. To me, staying found as I put it, means double checking yourself regularly. I have gotten a little turned around a time or two, but that didn't last long.
Fog, large, heavy forests, and heavy snowfall, all give me a warnings right then. If I'm on a basic trail and won't go far from it, say only 50-100 yds at right angles, then I'll do heavy forests. If I can leave tracks that I can see determine some of these decisions as well.
I've also noticed that many of the smaller, but significant land marks, trails etc. disappear with much snow on the ground. Another set of conditions that makes me double check myself more often. At least with snow, I have no trouble seeing and following my own tracks out.
As a rule, I tend to also take it slow and easy, as opposed to just charging off into a new area until I get used to it's quirks, my sense of direction and the important landmarks, etc. E

Slymule, I grew up hunting coon behind the hounds. Good memories.

I have a good sense of direction and one of my sons does. Both boys are excellent woodsmen, but one can't point toward home from the end of his driveway. Both use a compass well. It may be a gene that's present or missing. I don't think it is taught, not totally.

Human beings don't have a natural sense of direction like some animals. Native peoples that are better at orienteering themselves use landmarks, memory, and familiarity with their surroundings. I do some of the things mentioned by slymule, but also use navigation tools such as 1:24K topo maps, compass, GPS, and surveyors tape to mark waypoints, & waterproof notebook and space pen to record as I go so I dont have to absolutely rely on memory. (Its also important to learn completely how to use compass & GPS. Many - perhaps most - who have these items with them don't know how to use them properly, and use them together so that they get the most life out of their GPS battery time.)
As far as survival lessons - - - I always carry a survival kit. It has the basics needed to handle the usual modern survival situation which is typically resolved w/in 72 hours. I know how to use all the components of my kit and replace items as they degrade (such as batteries & matches). I use gear that can be operated with one hand - - (have had a situation where one hand was injured & difficult to operate some gear, impossible to operate other gear.) I get gear that can be operated using gross motor movements rather than complex or fine motor skills - the later goes to &*^%^ when cold or excited. I leave a note with someone telling them the general area where I will be and a time when they are to call out the calvary if I don't notify them. Taking a deep breath to help calm yourself is very helpful. Attitude is 95% of it. - - -