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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,325 Likes: 31
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,325 Likes: 31 |
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 436
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 436 |
Hello guys,
here s the one i learnt some years ago and this is still the method used as a good training for future guides ...
ok let s take us going in the forest in mid-december in Qu�bec you ll get snow, winds and sometimes freezing weather ...up to minus -4 farhenheit (sp ?) or -20�C ...
you ll remain there three nights not alone but with a colleague and every 4 hours someone will check you but not giving anything ... and the top will be that you ll go there with only everything you can pick-up in a tiny metal can ... and you ll be given a folding saw.
you ll have to build a fire, a shelter and a signalisation fire (you ll light it the last days ...) .
you ll dont have a sleeping bag and only the clothes you have with you ..
the can will help empty to boil water ...
the lessons learnt is : wood is heavy at the end of the second day and rabbits are easier to catch on a trapline than those specific days ...
good excercises isnt it ?
and if you re going on guided hunts in Qu�bec there is a lot of chances your guide have pass it. in the same time of course our english is not that good ... and three days with my lovely accent is the best survival lesson lol ....
see you. and seasons greetings.
ps : and i have marine bucket used while in boat i can try in some days to picture it and show items that are inside ... just in case ...
Last edited by ruger375; 12/27/08. Reason: added some infos
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 46 |
[quote=rost495]
Come on guys, You know you don't "NEED" all that sh%$*%#. If you dropped your pack off a cliff or it washed away down the river, you would make do and get out. We are Outdoorsmen Right?
I'd respectfully disagree. I'd say this is the kind of statement that leads to macho posturing that gets people lost, hurt or dead. Yes, I'm an Outdoorsman, but I'm a father and husband first. A few items and pounds difference makes one man merely survive and the next prevail.
The harder I work, the luckier I get.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,418 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,418 Likes: 6 |
I believe it was AlaskaFlyboy who mentioned the USAF's SERE School at Fairchild A.F. Base near Spokane, Washington. If anyone is interested in seeing what they do just for the "Survival" portion of their SERE training, go to this link and scroll down until you see the eight episodes listed. Click on "Number One," then after watching it, "Number Two," etc. There are eight episodes. http://www.hulu.com/survival-schoolEnjoy. L.W.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." (William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830s.)
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,068
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,068 |
[quote=rost495]
Come on guys, You know you don't "NEED" all that sh%$*%#. If you dropped your pack off a cliff or it washed away down the river, you would make do and get out. We are Outdoorsmen Right?
I'd respectfully disagree. I'd say this is the kind of statement that leads to macho posturing that gets people lost, hurt or dead. Yes, I'm an Outdoorsman, but I'm a father and husband first. A few items and pounds difference makes one man merely survive and the next prevail. There is also the fun factor of setting up an ER day pack. Good to know you can spend a night out if need be and not curl up like a frozen rat.  Also some of this stuff is just good to have. Went fishing the other day and got frozen feet due to just using rubber boots and normal socks. However had a pair of fleece socks in the day pack. Made for a better trip. Then there was the time a rock slab let go under my leg. The First Aid kit helps not that I was going to die. Also the time an Ex girlfriend broke her leg with me on a hike. The cell phone helped big time. Got turned around a few years ago and needed my poncho. Bad stuff just happens. Often the worse stuff never happens and is never known because the right decisions were made at the right time.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,034 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,034 Likes: 1 |
I spent a few years in the US Army, and spent a lot of time
"camping" in the woods. I wasnt SF or a Ranger, but knew
a few guys that were, and they always said when lost or
having to spend the night in the woods, that the most
important thing was keeping your cool.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,611
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,611 |
Below is a picture of what I might typically be in my pack for a day out in the NY or Maine woods (Aroostook or Penobscot Counties). I accidentally cut off the right side of the pic., so i'll list my suggested items: *50 - 100' of light cord (parachute) uses= support for shelter, hanging food/gear in a tree, etc. *20-30' of heavier rope uses= game drag/hoist *leatherman tool = pliers, file, knife blade, file, etc. *folding saw w/bone & wood blade = firewood, make a crutch, "header poles" for shelter. quartering an animal, etc. * 2 knives (I show 2 sheath knives, but 1 folder/ 1 sheath will work obviously) & SHARPENER * Water (i usually pack 2 bottles and keep one on my person, so it does not become a block of ice. (i will sometimes carry a juice box too). For exteneded trips i'll pack my Katadin water purifier & iodine tablets (NOT IN PHOTO) *First Aid Kit. = It might be overkill, but I carry my Adventurer medical kit. I regularly go through the kit to replace out of date or used items (cut off in photo) *2 flashlights and spre batteries/ bulbs (my choice is a Surefire 6P and 4xAA dive light) *RED safety strobe and Cyalume light sticks = not that traveling through the woods at night is a good idea, but sometimes (animal down, health emergency) it's neccessary and the light sticks and strobe can be seen from a great distance (light sticks also save battery power in a shelter) *TOPO Map of area, COMPASS and GPS (spare batteries double for flashlight/GPS..... AND the knowledge of how to use them. I grew up in a pre-GPS world, so traveling by map/compass and a SMALL amount of "dead wreckoning" have gotten me out of more than one situation over the years. PAY ATTENTION TO LANDMARKS! *AT LEAST 2 (3 is better) ways of starting a fire. My buddy carries a Zippo, but it's just too stinky in my opinion. I have had Bic lighters fail in extreme cold, so one is always in a inside pocket, close to my body. Wooden matches and a fire starting flint (not in photo) are also a good idea. *ORANGE marking ribbon (several yards) & glow tacks = enable you to leave a trail should someone need to follow you, or if you need to backtrack. *Food. = While we all know you would not die from starvation in a day or two, but cliff bars, Kudos, or the like will allow you to keep your energy up and fight off the cold. (a squirrel or rabbit over an open fire tastes pretty good too) *Red Bandana = signaling, nose blowing etc. *small amount of TP and or paper towels for when nature calls (don't go waving it around during hunting season..... i have yet to find orange or camo TP..... maybe the next Cabela's catalog? :-)) *ORANGE PONCHO/2 large plastic garbage bags = rain gear, shelter roof/walls ( I also carry 4 clothes pins and a SMALL amount of DUCT tape for shelter building. *Writing pad/ pen(s) and or pencil(s) = leaving a note should someone come looking for you (include time/date, health condition, game plan, phone numbers to contact, etc.) *Game cleaning gloves/ cheese cloth = self explanitory *several packs of "Hot Hands" or the like. Hand, feet, body warmers *Space blanket = inexpensive, light weight & reflects most of your body heat back to you. * FRS radio / earpiece (nothing worse than beeping & booping when your in the woods ![[Linked Image]](http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z48/TomT99/survival%20gear/survival_gear.jpg) TomT, Good list and I'm finally getting around to responding, though I thought of it the first time you posted. Your list is excellent for you, no question. If someone wants a lighter and more compact packet of survival gear, I've made some suggestions below as to how to lighten/reduce your list without significant loss of safety. I'll only comment on components that I would change or leave out: --Omit the rope. I've dragged massive northern mule deer as big as they get with doubled parachute cord and a foreleg cut off and tied as a hand hold. --Omit the Leatherman. ( I have a knife and will be carrying very little crucial gear that the leatherman tools could repair that I can't repair with knife, etc.) -- Take a much lighter saw ONLY if I plan to cut antlers from a skull. Otherwise leave the saw behind. --Omit the two large knives and take only one small light weight lock blade folder knife. --Omit the sharpener unless you will be gone at least four days, and make it a small, lightweight portion of hard Arkansas stone or other small, light sharpener to touch up the edge. No need for tools to reshape the edge. --Take one small lightweight flashlight, and one mico light just enough to walk with if the main light fails, and enough to change batteries in the main light. --One set of extra batteries for each, hopefully AAA or smaller. --Omit the bandana. For cleaning glasses, I carry a small swatch of optical lens cleaner cloth sealed in my TP zip loc. --I don't carry safety strobes nor usually water, but I hunt wet country most of the time. I've taken to carrying an empty water filter bottle for drinking from sources along the trail. I like the way you took the orange flagging tape off the roll for a lighter and more compact carry. The rest he items are either needed or purely personal preference. I carry clothes pins only when calling predators, to rig impromptu blinds with ultra light camo cloth. They don't hold much in strong wind. Predator calling is the only time other than for antlers that I carry a small saw, purely for environmental reasons, to cut limbs and improve nature at my stand site. --
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,936
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,936 |
One of my favorite quotes, attributed to a mountain man whose name I forget:
"I've never been lost, but I've been powerful confused for a month or two."
That one always makes me laugh.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 436
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 436 |
One of my favorite quotes, attributed to a mountain man whose name I forget:
"I've never been lost, but I've been powerful confused for a month or two."
That one always makes me laugh. disorentied works too ...!!!
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 518
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 518 |
If someone wants a lighter and more compact packet of survival gear, I've made some suggestions below as to how to lighten/reduce your list without significant loss of safety...
--Omit the rope. I've dragged massive northern mule deer as big as they get with doubled parachute cord and a foreleg cut off and tied as a hand hold.
+1 --Omit the Leatherman. ( I have a knife and will be carrying very little crucial gear that the leatherman tools could repair that I can't repair with knife, etc.) My own multiplier is currently under review for its worthiness as an "everyday" piece of gear. It is great under some circumstances but, like you've said, a knife is really quite capable of handling most repairs. -- Take a much lighter saw ONLY if I plan to cut antlers from a skull. Otherwise leave the saw behind. The saw I carry is one of the blades on my Victorinox Fieldmaster. I have used it to saw antlers off skulls, to split the pelvis bones of animals up to the size of elk, and of course for getting wood. Definitely among my favorites. --Omit the two large knives and take only one small light weight lock blade folder knife. AMEN. Two large fixed-blade knives is definitely unneeded. I sometimes carry one (a Buck Alpha Hunter) but, most of the time I stick with a Bucklite folder. --Omit the sharpener unless you will be gone at least four days, and make it a small, lightweight portion of hard Arkansas stone or other small, light sharpener to touch up the edge. No need for tools to reshape the edge. I have to disagree here. I definitely like having a good sharpener along. I've too often needed to touch up my blade in the field to ever leave it at home. --Take one small lightweight flashlight, and one micro light just enough to walk with if the main light fails, and enough to change batteries in the main light. +1 --One set of extra batteries for each, hopefully AAA or smaller. I carry no spare batteries. All my lights are LEDs and I switch out the batteries every season. (I use the ones being replaced for my kids' toys.) If one of my lights goes bad, it won't be because of battery drainage. --Omit the bandana. For cleaning glasses, I carry a small swatch of optical lens cleaner cloth sealed in my TP zip loc. +1, again --I don't carry safety strobes nor usually water, but I hunt wet country most of the time. I've taken to carrying an empty water filter bottle for drinking from sources along the trail. Definitely no to the safety strobes but, where I hunt, carrying water is not a choice, it's an absolute necessity. I like the way you took the orange flagging tape off the roll for a lighter and more compact carry. +1 I've posted my personal survival-gear system here: http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2551821/page/1/fpart/5
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,118
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,118 |
Here's a little survival tip my dad taught me many years ago, back when I first started tagging along behind him in the woods.
I'm 54 years old, never even owned a compass until 8 or 9 years ago, and to this day I've never been lost while out in the woods. I've spent numerous days in all kinds of weather, in many different parts of the country - swamps, flatlands, rolling hills, mountains, and deserts. I've often times taken off either on foot or on a mule and covered many miles in search of new hunting grounds. Sometimes I'm out for only a day, sometimes I may be gone for 4 or 5 days. Most of the time I don't even bother with carrying a map, much less a compass. Not sure how many individuals I've come across in my lifetime, that were turned around and not sure where they were, usually wanting directions on how to find a certain trail or road back to their camp. Hopefully my little tip will help someone out in the future, and its one I think we should teach all of our kids. Its so simple most people probably would never think about it - its called turning around.
Thats it, no big deal, its not high tech, its not hard, its just common sense. Before heading out turn slowly around, all 360 degrees, and note where you're standing. Pick out landmarks and the lay of the land from where you are currently standing. Notice everything that could be of value, a hill, an old tall dead tree, a creek, an odd shaped boulder up on a hill, the position of the sun - these types of things. Then head out, but don't just head out never looking back from where you just came from. As your walking your constantly viewing new country and your mind will remember what it looks like, but only from the view you get heading in that specific direction. But you also need to turn around often and take a gander at what it looks like from the opposite direction and also off to both sides also. Depending on the terrain and how often it changes, you should be stopping and turning around and allowing the ol' brain to take in the view from the opposite direction. Because if you never do that, five miles down the trail when you decide to turn around and head back for the first time, its not going to look familiar. Make sense?
Take it from someone who's done this all his life, it works. Please teach this to your kids, and bring it up often to remind them, it very well could save their life someday. I make a game out of it with my two young sons, I'm always taking them out and purposely zig zagging, or cutting circles as we're covering country. Then I'll stop and ask them each to point in the direction the truck or camp is in. When I first started doing this, they didn't pay a whole lot of attention to where "they" were going, and sometimes they'd guess 180 degrees off. After all they were just following dear ol' dad, and surely he knew where he was at. The more we played the game, the better they got at it until now its pretty hard to get them turned around no matter how hard I try and confuse them. I'm not saying don't teach them how to use a compass or a map. What I am saying is teach them how to return to camp when they don't have one, because someday they may not have anything with them besides the gray matter between their ears.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881 |
I like that Slymule. I call it "staying found." Start out familarizing yourself, or refamilarizing yourself, each time you go out and stay that way. If, at any time, I develop any doubt as to where I am, which way I came, or how to get back, I do whatever I must to locate myself. That means using a good map and compass. BTW, this process starts right at the trailhead before I start walking. Look around. Look for tracks, etc.
I don't carry half and maybe 1/4 of the stuff of some who have posted here. But I have used it overnight, one way or the other.
I'd add 7 hr. tear open hand warmers, and a poncho that can double as a shelter.
I don't need a second compass because I know how to use the stars or the sun to tell directions. In fact, I rarely use mine because all I have to do is look around.
For those that don't know, at night, find the Big Dipper. The two stars on the outside of the cup form a line. Follow that line away from the top of the cup to the north star. It is always true north from you. The BD revolves around it as the night progresses. During daylight, the sun at noon is in the south in the northern hemishere during the fall months. Your shadow points north. It rises and sets only at true west and east on the solstice. The rest of the time it is either above or below those directions. Learn where it does this at various seasons by using your compass.
Notice if you are leaving footprints and what your fresh tracks look like. When it's time to go home, the surest way is to follow them out. I'd be very careful about taking shortcuts. If I'm on a steep mountain, the cardinal rule is you go down the way you went up. 80% of the injuries that occur while mountaineering occur while descinding. E
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,611
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,611 |
Slymule and Eremicus have posted a goldmine of the most basic and valuable orientation concepts. Staying found, reading direction from stars and sun, etc. are universals. Maps, compass, GPS etc. are all supplements to the basics.
I'm smiling here, Slymule, but would love to try your sense of direction in a place like the Canadian Shield country or one of the vast northern plateaus of spruce and swamp. Some people have a superb innate sense of direction and place, and others are bereft. I've long wondered how good the best of the innate direction finders are, with no way to really test it. I've never yet met anyone with a fool proof sense of direction, not even among Native trappers and guides, etc. but suspect that maybe there are people who have unerring sense of direction, like some species of birds.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,300
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,300 |
I'm always taking in the 360 degree view as well, but wouldn't ever use that as my only means of navigation. Where I hunt is heavy timber and extreme weather changes.
When the fog or snow roll in I may not be able to see 50 yards, so my compass is my primary navigator as I may not be able to see the marker that is 1/4 mile away.
To each their own, but I never go in the woods without at least 2 compasses, a map and my GPS. I mark my vehicle on the GPS and typically leave it off for most of the trip.
Last edited by NH Hunter; 01/05/09.
It's good to lead - it's better to lead by example.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,118
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,118 |
Okanagan, I too have always wondered why I've never been lost and others I've known can seem to get lost in 40 acres. I know we can rule out genetics because twice I've had to go find my dads younger brother when he got lost while hunting with me in Colorado. This was in an area that I would of thought completely impossible to get lost in, with all the choices of varying terrain and landmarks. I remember another time when I was 12 years old and deer hunting with him and my dad in Pennsylvania. It was bitterly cold out that morning and I had to finially give up my stand and track down my dad, so I could get the car keys and go warm up my frost bit hands. I ran across my uncle on the way back to the car and he asked me where I was going, I told him back to the car. He said he was heading back there too, only thing was, he was heading in the wrong direction. He wouldn't listen to me, we argued for ten minutes, him trying to convince me, me trying to convince him which direction we had left the vehicle. My hands were hurting so bad by that time I finially said I'm leaving and going this way, told him I'd honk the horn for him when I got there. I remember him telling me 'you're gonna be sorry, the cars this way'. Well, it was about an hour after dark when he finially showed up at the car, he came out on a road about 6 miles from where we were parked and somebody gave him a ride back to us - I walked out within 50 yards of our vehicle about 7 hours earlier.
Okanagan, I don't know what your swamps are like but I've been coonhunting many nights in the swamps of Alabama and Georgia. Never had a compass, didn't even own one at that time, and I never got lost. When you're following hounds at night you're often going all over the place to get a coon treed. I do know that when I hunted with other guys, they always had a compass with them. I remember a competition hunt one night that everyone owned a compass but me. Three of us ended up splitting up from another hunter and the guide. We had been to three different trees before we split up. When time was up and the hunt ended both of the guys I was with had forgotten to take a compass reading at the last tree we had made, they didn't have a clue which way the truck was. It took me awhile to convince them I knew where it was because they both knew I didn't have a compass, I remember they argued with me all the way back to the truck - "this can't be right, I don't remember coming this way". I told them we didn't, I was just taking a short cut. They were both dumbfounded when we walked out of the woods within a few yards of the truck. I couldn't believe they actually didn't have a clue which direction we left the truck,we couldn't of been more than a mile and a half from it at the furthest point all night.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881 |
Based on what I've seen and done, I probably have a good sense of direction. But I do not rely on it. To me, staying found as I put it, means double checking yourself regularly. I have gotten a little turned around a time or two, but that didn't last long.
Fog, large, heavy forests, and heavy snowfall, all give me a warnings right then. If I'm on a basic trail and won't go far from it, say only 50-100 yds at right angles, then I'll do heavy forests. If I can leave tracks that I can see determine some of these decisions as well.
I've also noticed that many of the smaller, but significant land marks, trails etc. disappear with much snow on the ground. Another set of conditions that makes me double check myself more often. At least with snow, I have no trouble seeing and following my own tracks out.
As a rule, I tend to also take it slow and easy, as opposed to just charging off into a new area until I get used to it's quirks, my sense of direction and the important landmarks, etc. E
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,611
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,611 |
Slymule, I grew up hunting coon behind the hounds. Good memories.
I have a good sense of direction and one of my sons does. Both boys are excellent woodsmen, but one can't point toward home from the end of his driveway. Both use a compass well. It may be a gene that's present or missing. I don't think it is taught, not totally.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 84
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 84 |
Human beings don't have a natural sense of direction like some animals. Native peoples that are better at orienteering themselves use landmarks, memory, and familiarity with their surroundings. I do some of the things mentioned by slymule, but also use navigation tools such as 1:24K topo maps, compass, GPS, and surveyors tape to mark waypoints, & waterproof notebook and space pen to record as I go so I dont have to absolutely rely on memory. (Its also important to learn completely how to use compass & GPS. Many - perhaps most - who have these items with them don't know how to use them properly, and use them together so that they get the most life out of their GPS battery time.)
As far as survival lessons - - - I always carry a survival kit. It has the basics needed to handle the usual modern survival situation which is typically resolved w/in 72 hours. I know how to use all the components of my kit and replace items as they degrade (such as batteries & matches). I use gear that can be operated with one hand - - (have had a situation where one hand was injured & difficult to operate some gear, impossible to operate other gear.) I get gear that can be operated using gross motor movements rather than complex or fine motor skills - the later goes to &*^%^ when cold or excited. I leave a note with someone telling them the general area where I will be and a time when they are to call out the calvary if I don't notify them. Taking a deep breath to help calm yourself is very helpful. Attitude is 95% of it. - - -
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