Here ya go...

http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2011/12/new-msr-microrocket-first-look.html

I have a Pocket Rocket. I really don't see a whole lot of advantage to this new one. I suppose if you were really going some distance and every single square centimeter of pack space was critical and every single gram of weight equally critical then MAYBE the case could be made that this is a better option.
Dunno.
I suppose if this is just the "new and improved" model which just happens to be slightly more compact than the "old" model then great.

Still, it has the same "problem", if you want to call it that, as the Pocket Rocket...those darned bulky and heavy fuel canisters.

BTW, very interesting site you posted Brad! Thanks!

Oooh, that looks nice!

Thanks for the link.

Damn you....

Gentlemen, good afternoon (or whatever time of day it is where you are).

I noticed my site, Adventures In Stoving was getting a few visitors from 24 Hour Campfire. I thought you might be interested in my follow on post regarding the new MicroRocket: [b][i]The MicroRocket and Small Mugs/Pots -- What Fits?[/i][/b] wherein I take a look at some mug type and other small pots and see whether or not the new MicroRocket offers any advantage over the old PocketRocket.

I see someone already posted a link to my site, so hopefully posting a link here is OK. I imagine a moderator will be along in a minute to slap my hand if not.

By the way, I've only had the stove for two days now, but I really like what I see. This is a real product improved version.

I'll be doing more tests and blogging more on this new stove, so please join me on a few Adventures in Stoving.

HJ

Jim;

Send a PM to RickBin and clear sponsorship with him, and you're golden.

PM sent.

Thanks.

HJ

Snubbie, as much as I like stoves, I think I have to agree with you. It's an improvement, but it's not "throw away your old stove which is now junk".

The build quality is greatly improved. The durability is improved. It's a tad lighter (1/2 ounce). It's significantly more compact though.

Speaking of more compact, let me show you two photos, if I may:




That is a little 550ml mug pot (holds approx. 2 cups). In the second photos, inside the pot is the stove and a 110g canister of gas (several days worth of fuel).

If someone were out in, say, fall deer hunting season, that little mug could easily slip into a chest or fanny pack. A quick cup of coffee or soup can be a really nice thing, and there's no worry about wet wood and getting a fire started or any of that. Sure, you can make a fire, but gas is very convenient and clean -- no sooty pot to deal with.

Just thought that a photo of an entire cooking set up might put the size of the stove into perspective.

Regards,

HJ

I can't see where Hikin Jim is selling anything on his website. It just looks like the site of an enthusiast (albeit a very sick one -- I like that! ), so why would he have to talk to Rick Bin about being a sponsor?

If there is a link to sell stuff on Jim website, I have missed it: this could be my popup blocker, or my stupidity -- would not be the first time!

John

For the record, I have nothing for sale on my Blog. It is purely that, a blog.

HJ

Good to know. We do get a lot of posts here that just pump commercial websites, so you could see how somebody might think that was your purpose.

I have saved your site as a bookmark.

I have a friend who is one of those hiker types that saws the handle off his toothbrush to save weight. Actually, he probably leaves his toothbrush at home to save weight! I will send your url to him -- and he will spend hours reading your blog as he tries to save one gram more!

John

Ah, yes, I know the type.

If he's a gas stove user in cold weather, I've got a post that will drive him crazy. It's the ultimate backpacking fuel: propane in a lightweight backpacking type canister. It's been discontinued, but you can still find a can or two here and there. That ought to drive him batty.

HJ

That new one is pretty cool. I'll have to get one for the backpack, and leave the old one on the boat.

It really is a nice stove. The new MR has all of the functionality of the PR in "half" the package. (OK, maybe not quite "half", but it is quite compact)



HJ

I took it out on the trail today. It's really a nice little stove.

HJ

Based on my hike yesterday, I compiled the following:

In a couple of days, MSR is set to release their new MicroRocket stove.

The MicroRocket will be MSR's first entry into the lightweight, high-end gas stove market. (The existing PocketRocket is more of an entry level stove).

Yesterday, I took the stove out on the trail for the first time.


Please join me on an another Adventure in Stoving: [i][b]The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1[/b][/i]

HJ

I took the new MR stove out again yesterday. This time I went cold and high.


I wanted to see how it would do. I was actually fairly impressed. Full report to follow when I get time.


HJ

Wow. You can save 2g... or .08 oz.

I can't see an advantage to this over the pocket rocket. If a person needed a new/additional stove...perhaps.

If you read Hikin Jim's blog entry he highlights some potential benefits unrelated to weight.

OK. I will.

Forget the weight. It's next to irrelevant.

The compactness/packability is greatly improved.
The MR's build quality is like night and day when compared to the PR.
The MR has much greater pot stability.
The MR has freaking fabulous flame control.
The MR should* produce far less carbon monoxide.

It's a nice stove and a significant upgrade over the PR.

HJ

*I'm not a scientist, and I don't have a lab at my disposal, but I can see how they've changed the stove, and I know that the particular changes they've made will greatly reduce carbon monoxide output.

Anticipated street price?

MSRP $60

BackCountryGear already has it on their site: MSR MicroRocket at BCG.

HJ

Not trying to start an arguement, especially when you say

Which is what I said above as well. As my friend 2legit often says; you only have to make yourself happy.
For my purposes when I use the PR:
1. weight is a wash
2. dimension pretty much is a wash too
3. the stove *for me* is just to boil water for coffee, oatmeal, and MH meals - it's on or off, so flame control is a wash
4. I don't think I've been buttoned up tight enough/burned long enough for CO to be an issue, so that's a wash
That's why I wrote:


These comments are all relating to my use only. Owning a PR, I agree with you that

None is a criticism of your review, so please don't read my comments as such. I appreciate that you took the time and glad you're a member!

Looks nice, but I'll stick with the Jet Boil SolTi.

Can't argue with that.

Or as I say: "the best technique is the one that works."

HJ

Another nice stove. A buddy of mine has the Al version. A really nice stove.

The thing that should not be overlooked with something like a JetBoil is that they're a lot more windproof than most canister stoves. Some canister stoves can be really sensitive to wind (as in you don't get a hot supper).

HJ

Randy (2L2Q)IS a philosopher!

I've preached that on this forum, mostly to the deaf.

But not everyone hikes in a place as windy as Montana I suppose.

Thanks for your very thorough review of the new MSR... I posted it here because a lot seem to like the original.

The Jetboil is pretty slick. It's all one package, it's efficient, it's pretty light, and it's got good wind resistance by design (no fiddling around).

You can rig a windscreen for a MircroRocket or PocketRocket type stove.


But you'd best know what you're doing. Let too much heat build up inside the screen, and the canister could explode. Now, realistically, on a cold, windy day, the chances of that happening are fairly remote. In warm weather, though, one needs to touch the canister frequently. If the canister is anything more than warm, turn things down or open up the windscreen more or both.

HJ

HJ, yeah I've used my MSR Simmerlite wind-break with my Snow Peak Giga. It definitely helps. Perhaps too much internet input, but the explosion thing is always in the back of one's mind. Overrated, no doubt, but always there none-the-less.

I'm a bit of a stove nut... ok, gear nut! I've been using canister stoves sine the early/mid 70's and I've always liked them better than White Gas stoves... the new crop is as good as it gets. So many choices.

Everyone sees the equation differently and there's an answer for all ideas today... the Pocket Rocket should be at the top for those that don't believe in the Jetboil platform.

I used my PR one time and it was a bit cold for it. I had to keep shaking the canister and warming it with my hands to keep the flame. Wished for white gas that morning - coffee was at a premium.

That's why I've got a couple WG stoves in my arsenal... below around 15*F canister stoves SUCK.

Besides, I still have a soft spot for the Svea 123... had it since 1975 and it still works like it was just made despite hundreds of days on the trail...

It was well below 15* that morning! The forecast was not for temps that low and thought we'd be fine. Freezing my hands to get gas to vaporize to make coffee was miserable.

I quit using canister stoves below 20* a long time ago... they just don't work in those temps.

Yup. I've decided if the ground is white, it's Coleman time.

The danger is real, but... is generally exaggerated. Corporate lawyers want to stop lawsuits, so they issue dire warnings. They don't have to cook out in the wild in gusting winds. You and I do.

The trick is fairly simple: Touch the canister with your (unfrozen) hand. If the canister is rated to 190F and it doesn't feel hot, then you're no where near the danger point. If however it does feel hot (not warm, hot), then turn the sucker down QUICK and open up the windscreen a bit.

As long as you stay on top of things, it should be fine. If you're the type that tends to zone out, then maybe this isn't the right technique for such an individual.

HJ

Yeah, 20F is my planning number. You can go lower if you do things to keep the canister warm. Once the canister temperature falls below 20F, you'll get a drop off in performance. Keep the canister warm, and you can run in air temperatures below 20F pretty well.

You can also go a lot lower with gas if you have a stove (like a WindPro) that is a) a remote set up and b) has a pre-heat loop. Gas stoves that meet those two quals can run with the canister upside down which gives you a lot better cold weather performance. I've got posts on my blog that explain it if any one is interested. Let me know, and I'm happy to post links.

HJ

I've used the Svea 123 and MSR XGK well below zero... no need for links.

Hands will work, but IMHO there's a better way. Check this post out on my blog: Gas Stoves: Cold Weather Tips.

HJ

I meant for gas stoves that will work in colder weather than "normal" gas stoves.

If you've already got a 123/XGK and are happy, not to worry.

HJ

I'm interested... what would those be?

I assume you've used them in -30F cold?

Most gas stoves start fading around 20F. I'm talking about taking gas stoves down to 0F. But -30F? Heck no. Not recommended in general for any backpacking type gas stove unless you really know what you're doing AND have a backup liquid fueled stove. For -30F trot out that XGK.

For the type of gas stove that will go down to about 0F, see this article that I wrote for Seattle BackPacker's Magazine last April: Stoves For Cold Weather II

HJ

Warmed up a bit by high noon!




Cold by enjoyable the day before.




The evening was fun. Maybe more important than the coffee was hot cho-cho for these two.

When you said "normal gas stoves" I assumed you meant white gas stoves. Here in Montana a winter stove better produce at -30F or it's trouble.

Below 15*F I'm just not interested in canister stoves, period. Too fickle.

I stuck a 233 grammer MSR can on the floor of a veneer dryer at work once for a half a shift. 390 degrees didn't cause a failure or epic explosion (which can be contained quite well inside a Durand Raute 17 section 4 deck dryer) I did it becuase the exploding can thread pops up once in a while.

Amazing. They're rated to around 190F. That's pretty impressive that one went all the way to 390 -- but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

HJ

Good stuff Dan...

Ah. Sorry. No. By normal gas stove I meant a normal canister gas stove, the kind that screws directly on top of a canister of gas.

Yeah, some people will be interested in a gas (canister!) stove that operates down to 0F for "shoulder season" camps (late fall/early spring), others will not. I grew up with white gas type stoves, so they don't bother me. Other people will bend over backwards to avoid white gas. Each to his or her own.

HJ

I'll bet there is some statistical safety factor figured in. Like breaking strength of cordage.

I would think so.

The "hand test" for me is just something that is practical in the field. If I can touch the canister without burning my hand, then it can't be anywhere near the explosion point.

The main "take away" from this is that despite the bold print warnings that say NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, you can in fact use a windscreen with a canister stove.

HJ

Regarding the new MSR (even with a windscreen), at the end of the day the Jetboil Ti will ultimately boil faster, and use less fuel, off-setting it's slightly higher weight beyond a 3 day trip... all wishful thinking aside.

Unfortunately..... Its all true.

It bulged the bottom of the can. But I still used it all up.

But then, us NASCAR hillbilly sheep [bleep] actually push things far beyond their expected limits just to see how it all shakes out.

From your mouth to God's ears...

Hope you're well...

Brad

HJ

Shifting gears a bit if I may: I've been testing the new MSR MicroRocket stove just to see what it will and will not do. I wanted to see if it could do things beyond the basics, so...


The above omelet was prepared on an MSR MicroRocket this morning. I've got a full report on my blog: [b]The New MSR MicroRocket -- Cooking Report[/b]. Have a look if you like.

HJ

That's a really good test and write-up Jim. Looks like the PR's very versatile... based on your photos the thing that impresses me most is its folded size... that thing is SMALL!

Yeah, that's kind of where I'm coming from when I say "the reduced weight is no big deal". To me, the smaller size is what's cool about the new MR, not the slightly reduced weight (yawn).

Again, I'm not trying to talk people who are happy with the PR out of their stoves, but if someone were in the market for a little stove, the MR is worth taking a look at. I don't think it's the best in any one category, but it's a good overall stove.

HJ

How's the MR's fuel economy? Compared to a regulated stove like the Soto?

I haven't compared the two, but in general it's more about the user than the stove when it comes to fuel economy.

HJ

Slightly different topic;
I have and love my MSR Pocket Rocket but I'm considering a MSR whisperlite. The reason is, I question the availability of fuel for the pocket rocket. I'm considering an Idaho hunt this Fall and traveling with the fuel canisters isn't an option nor is shipping a few ahead of me for pickup. I have found the Coleman Peak canisters at WalMart on occasion which will work with the PR but the MSR canisters are somewhat limited to more specialized stores. It would be a problem to arrive at a strange area and not be able to locate fuel canisters before heading out.

However, Coleman Fuel is available almost anywhere.
Am I being overly cautious? How does the Whisperlite compare to the Pocket Rocket as far as fuel efficiency vs. weight? I also believe the fuel would be easier to backpack for the Whisperlite vs. the bulky canisters for the PR.

Any thoughts?

Good question... I suppose it depends where you're traveling to in ID.

As you say, Walmart sells the Peak1 butane/propane mix canisters, but there's not a Walmart everywhere.

You also make a good point not everywhere sells MSR or Snowpeak canisters. Our local Wholesale Sports (formerly Sportsman's Warehouse does) as well as all the climbing/backpackatorium's like REI sell them too.

White Gas will work better when the temps dip I can tell you that, and the old MSR Whisperlite is a reliable design. Wind will play havoc with most canister stoves too, increasing boil times and decreasing efficiency (fuel consumption). It does get pretty windy in the West, and the MSR WG stoves will be more efficient in cold and wind.

I prefer the Simmerlite as it's lighter... to me the reason to get the Whisperlite is the "International" version that will burn unleaded auto fuel, etc.

In your shoes I think I'd go WG. A little less convenient, but...

I agree, Brad, but keep it quiet about not everywhere having a Walmart, or they will move on in. On second thought, where is this place without a Walmart, I wanna visit. It's the main reason I go on these sheep/goat hunts, to get far, far from a Walmart, for just a little while. I wouldn't be surprised to see Prince of Wales Island on their planning map, though.
Don

I think POW is safe.. Even our local coffee/book shop is closing up and heading south in a few months due to lack of tourism to the area.

Ohh my!
That looks nice. Small enough to carry in my Camelbak. Amazing what they do nowadays.

Snubbie,

I don't think you'll save a lot of pack space by going with a Whisperlite. The combination of Whipserlite + fuel bottle is generally going to take more space than a PocketRocket + gas canister. The Whisperlite is a good stove. I bought mine in 1987, and it's still going strong. But saving pack space isn't the Whisperlite's strength, and neither is simmering, which is difficult on a Whisperlite.

What are the Whisperlite's strengths? Well, it uses white gas, which is cheap, generally pretty available, and will run in any temperature. The W'lite is also pretty stable if you want to use a larger pot or pan. The W'lite comes with a windscreen which you should use even in relatively light wind. With the windscreen, the W'lite does quite well in wind -- far better than a PocketRocket.

If you spend I think $10 bucks more, you can get the Internationale version of the Whisperlite which will burn white gas, kerosene, and unleaded automotive gasoline which gives you more options. White gas will burn best, kerosene next, and unleaded should always be last -- use only sparingly. Unleaded won't burn clean, and you will muck up your stove if you do much of it. Bring a service kit if you plan to use unleaded. Switching between gasoline and kerosene does require that you change the little brass jet, but that's usually no big deal. The stove comes with a little wrench/tool for just that purpose.

If you're flying, I've heard some airlines have major restrictions on stoves and fuel bottles. Probably best to check. Some airlines reputedly will only allow new stoves still in the packaging on board. I don't believe that's TSA regs but rather individual airline policy.

HJ

Well I'm glad to know there is no space savings with the Whisperlite vs the Pocket Rocket so that throws that out as a consideration. (and one less arguement for buying one!)

My greatest concern was finding the fuel canisters in certain areas. Typically, coleman fuel can be found almost anywhere, sometimes even in convenience stores, hardware stores, grocery stores, etc. Not so the fuel canisters for the PR.

I know you can't fly with the mixed fuel gas canisters but you're saying some airlines won't allow a stove or empty fuel(white gas) bottle?

That's my understanding. I'd check with the particular airline you intend to fly with and find out their policy.

HJ

HJ,
What is "white gas" exactly?
I look iy up in an English/Spanish dictionary and get a ver unespecific translation...
Is it specifically made for stoves or has other uses?
What kind of stores would you buy it in?
Gracias,
BBerg

BBerg:

It's naptha. Here's a great resource for identifying stove fuels:

http://www.welcomehome.org/backcountry/fuel.names.txt

Regards,
Scott

This is a somewhat bad term and can be confusing. What it means in the context of stoves is fuel sold specifically for this purpose, like Coleman Fuel. I believe MSR and possibly other companies have their own brands.
It is what is commonly used in Coleman type stoves and lanterns. It is also used in some backpacking stoves.
Hikin Jim has a great site dedicated to stoves: http://www.adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/

I've been through many stoves, mostly MSR. Starting as a single stove owner, I loved my dragonfly. Then I bought a pocket rocket and never carried the dragonfly, so I sold the DF. I learned my lesson about cold weather and cannisters, so I bought an XGK. Then I realized I couldn't really cook on either of my stoves. I then bought a superfly. Nirvana was attained. I then sold (nearly gave away) my PR. That was about 10 years ago and I am quite happy with my two stoves to this day, but.... I think I now need a micro in my quiver. The PR just wasn't small enough to be convenient IMO. This MR seems just the ticket.

"White" gas is a particular formulation of gasoline. Originally, white gas was just gasoline without the additives. They started adding tetraethyl lead to gasoline in the 1920's IIRC to prevent engine knocking. Leaded gasoline was colored (I think red) to distinguish it from plain gasoline which was referred to as "white gasoline." Later, Coleman came up with their own formulation for stove and lantern use. The Coleman formulation is a little less volatile than automotive gasoline from what I've read and includes rust inhibitors. So, what we have today isn't exactly the same as what was originally meant by the term "white gasoline," but the name stuck, and that's the way it is referred today.

Incidentally, in areas where Amish live, I've heard you can get true white gasoline (automotive type gasoline without any additives).

In Spanish white gas would be "gasolina blanca." Sometimes white gas is referred to as bencina. If you're hunting down in Mexico, I understand that Coleman Fuel is available in some locations (albeit pricey) based on a conversation I had with one gentleman.


HJ

If you want to learn a lot more about white gas/coleman fuel, take a look at the link I posted earlier. It is an excellent source of info on coleman fuel...

Scott

Thank you for your replies.

HJ,

I am in Spain, not in Mexico, and here "gasolina blanca" would be the literal translation of "white gas" but it does not make any sense as there is no such a thing as gasolina blanca.

From Scott's link I see it is "Bencina" which is a very volatile petroleum destilate used as a solvent. No idea where to buy it, though...

Using my stove here is not a problem as I can buy Coleman Fuel, but the reason for asking has to do with traveling to remote destinations in central Asia and not being able to take the fuel with me on the plane.

Which stove should work better with unleaded gasoline?
Unleaded gasoline I will be able to buy anywhere, I guess...

BBerg

There are four brands in the US that I'm familiar with:
Coleman
Crown
MSR
Sunnyside

MSR is typically very expensive, particularly when you consider that it is only sold by the quart whereas the other brands are all sold by the gallon.

WalMart used to carry Ozark Trail brand white gas (their in house brand), but are now carrying Coleman.

HJ

Excellent link. There's an updated version of the International Fuel Names List maintained by Doron Papo.

HJ

Kerosene is generally considered the most widely available fuel internationally. The MSR XGK EX stove is a very sturdy stove that can burn kerosene. In a pinch, it can burn diesel, but you wouldn't want to do much of that. Diesel is a dirty, nasty business.

The XGK EX can also burn white gas, Av gas, jet fuel, and unleaded auto gas.

I'd say the XGK might be a good option if you're headed to remote places in Asia. It's not cheap ($150 MSRP and you have to buy a fuel bottle for ~$20), but if you're traveling to Asia for a hunt, it would probably be a small fraction of your budget. I'd probably get the expedition service kit if I were going somewhere remote.

HJ

+1 about the XGK. It will burn both gas and Kero.....though you may have to change the burner jet. Fortunately, the astove comes with the necessary jets for different fuels (at least, it used to.)
A convenient option for warm weather is an alcohol stove (how available is pure alcohol internationally?) You can make a very effective "penny" alcohol stove in a few minutes. I have hiked various sections of the Appalachian trail with one and it worked just fine for one or two people.
Also: carry an 18" piece of pure copper wire (12-14 gauge) and you can adapt many white gas stoves so that they will burn kerosene (not safe to do it the other way round.)
Pete

The XGK EX definitely comes with the jets needed (two separate jets). With those jets, one can burn either white gasoline or kerosene. Also with those same two jets, one can burn non-standard stove fuels like unleaded, AV gas, commercial jet fuels, stoddard solvent, JP-8, etc. Any time you burn something other than standard fuels (white gas and kerosene), you'll probably have to clean the stove more often and your stove will be more prone to clogging.

Hey, Pete,

Do you have any photos of that kind of a rig?

HJ