Years ago I did a good amount of backpacking. Most of my pack trips would be 4-6 days and I would cover 35-40 miles with a 40-42lb pack. I also would do a goodly amount of off-trail hiking with a GPS. I invested in good quality gear and am pretty well set up.

Here is my problem: Living overseas for a couple of years and some other circumstances have made it to where I have not gone on a pack trip in 4 years and have gained a LOT of weight. My deer hunting this last year consisted of just taking short 1-2 mile hikes from the truck. By the third day my lower back was starting to bother me. In December I started dieting and hitting the gym and have lost 24 lbs but alas, I have another 50 to go. My plan is to lose 10 lbs per month and be healthy enough to start going on a few short 2-3 day pack trips in July and Aug for some preseason scouting and then do a full blown backpack hunt in Oct.

Here is my question: Can I lose that much weight and then add enough lean muscle tissue onto my 48 year old body to do this in that time frame? I live in Western Oregon and would most likely be hunting/packing at an elevation of 6-7000 feet.

Have you seen your family doc?

Yeah. I had a round of kidney stones last year that ended up requiring surgery and I also got diagnosed with low thyroid in November. The low thyroid was easy enough to fix with a daily pill and also explains why I was gaining weight.

If you are determined, you can do it. In the meantime hike all you can--don't wait til July.

www.crossfit.com for getting into shape.

I reccomend Barry Sear's Zone Diet to control WHAT you put into your mouth. Make as many meals as possible "Paleolithic", by that I mean eat only lean meats, eggs, vegetables. NO breads or grains, pasta, etc.

10lbs a month seems like a lot. Those last 50lbs might take a few years to get off. Get active, find a workout program you'll want to stick with, eat right, and start going for walks every day. Take care of your knees in the process.

Paleo diet and crossfit. But clear it with the dr. first. Should fix you right up!

10 lbs. a month for five months ? Yeah it can be done. The trouble is that most of it won't be fat. The other problem will be keeping it off. which, unless you adopt the Federal Food Guidelines, you will not be able to do.
I'd suggest concentrating on getting into shape. Don't push too hard there. The muscles get stronger much faster than the ligaments and tendions. Injure one of those and it takes a long time to heal.
Above all, consult with your doctor about all of this. E

Just keep plugging. Even if you are twenty pounds over your goal weight, you can still be in darn good shape in terms of your leg strength and cardio. Eventually your beer gut will subdued.

I am getting lots of good advice here. I have never heard of the paleo diet but the way I am eating is very similar. I eat a lot of veggies and lean cuts of meat but I don't consume a lot of bad fats. I get my fats mainly from stuff like nuts and avocados and cheeses. I have cut white flour, white rice, potatoes and sugar. My appetite has taken a nose dive.

Eremicus said:
The muscles get stronger much faster than the ligaments and tendions. Injure one of those and it takes a long time to heal.

This is one of my biggest fears. At this time I am going to the gym and using the elliptical machine and stair stepper for cardio. I am only doing 5 minutes sets on the stair stepper and 10 min sets on the elliptical and only put in a total of 30 minutes. My weight training is on a machine (no free weights) and I am working out with fairly light weights and doing high reps of 20-30 per set without pushing myself too much. I will probably not start increasing the intensity too much until after 3 months.

Another thing to add to your routine is to get on the treadmill and crank the incline up as high as it goes. Walk as fast as you can for 1 hour.

Sounds like you're doing good - don't try to rush it too fast as others have said. Just make sure to keep doing plenty of resistance training (weights), otherwise you'll lose alot of muscle along with the fat. You won't build much, if any, muscle while on a calorie deficit diet, but the key is not to lose what you already have.

get a book called "primal blueprint", follow it and watch the weight come off.

One thing to add. After you've gotten your legs and knees used to walking and hiking again, start wearing a weight vest on your walks or the treadmill. Start with 10 lbs or so, and work your way up. It's a great way to get exercise, lose weight, and train for what you'll be doing.

I've got ten years on you and if you keep doing what you are to lose weight you will lose enough. You want to be kind to your back and your joints.
You're walking a fine line between getting in mountain shape and causing undo stress to that sore back and 48 year old joints.
I had a second knee surgery last year and the surgeon said to save the pounding for the things that matter. He also said to make the elliptical machine my friend. Still, you have to load some stress through those joints to build muscle.
I used to subscribe to the theory that you just need to go pound out some miles in the mountains and work those muscles and the cardio into shape. Doesn't work that way anymore. Better off to shed weight, build muscle and take strategic trips into the mountains to maximize scouting, training and minimize joint damage.
You can do it and you are off to a good start. You'll wonder how you could have let a few years go by without doing it.
The mountains of the NW are tough, but the elevation effects won't really have much impact. Hope you have a great trip!

Another observation. I can cover ground on a decent hiking trail pretty fast and without too much residual trouble. The trekking poles really do help when you have a decent track to walk.
HOWEVER, how many of us hunt from a trail? It was all the off trail stuff that hammered my knee this year. Spent most of the time on some form of river rock or going over and under timber. Trekking poles are useless and the constant high knee lifts combined with the instability of walking on the rocks pointed to every muscle and joint deficiency I had.
I'll be trying to mimic some of those moves this off season in a lower impact method.

338Win,

This is the first year that my lower back has bothered me. My right hip bothers me a little if I walk a long distance but I have noticed that the pain in my hip is directly relational to my weight. I am thinking that losing the weight more than anything will give my joints relief. I have the kind of body type that carries most of its weight from the waist up, so the health of my lumbar and hip are definitely affected by weight gain/loss. I have already noticed a difference in losing just the 24 lbs. Yes you're right, the elliptical machine seems to be good for me. Thank the good Lord that my knees seem to be holding up really good with no pain.

Same age basically here, I"ll let you know how I do later on...

Wife bought insanity workout tape, and IMHO cardio is a big thing first. Once I build more cardio I"ll be able to work on building muscle. As I build cardio the weight goes away.

I did it for a different reason... volunteer fire department bunker gear is a hot sob, and I'm not in the shape I need to be for the occasional big fire that comes along.

Figure being in shape for that, will help hunting

Thank the good Lord for everything, including your knees but take care of those knees. 338 is right and take it from me, those knees that feel no pain can start feeling pain quickly. I did sort of what you're talking about though without the amount of weight loss(only about 20 lbs) I started walking then jogging then really jogging and feeling like a million bucks. I developed knee pain, a torn miniscus. I asked the doc "isn't that what basketball and football players get?" He responded that's what it takes to tear a minuscus...when you're in your 20's. But at 50, just the constant pounding can do it. So no more jogging for me.
What I'm saying is, at our age, losing weight and exercising can make you feel REALLY good and good about yourself. You can reach your goals and inprove your health a thousand fold. But it's easy to over do it. A whole lot easier than when we were in our 20's or even our 30's. Forget the "no pain no gain" mantra. Just take it easy, there are ways you can build muscle and cardio without pounding your body. Sounds like you're on the right track.
I believe as you build strength, especially core strength, and lose weight the lower back pain will likely take care of itself.

I'm in the same boat.
I took the advice of my daughter, a physical therapist (and fitness type) and personal trainer for a few well to do folks.
See you doctor, get set up with a trainer at your local gym, hire a nutrionist. She was home this weekend for a day and she got me set up at the gym with the correct warmup procedure, weight training etc. The doc already gave me plenty of hell.
A couple good books she recommended over the last 2-3 years that I found very helpful. Books by Drs. Dean Ornis, Andrew Weil, Caldwell Esslstyn, Dr. Mac Dougall and Dr. Colin Campell Phd.
Most if not all are geared towards plant based diets. I tried and did ok for awhile, didn't give up meat, just ate less.
Almost all wild game is pretty lean and good for you. Better than the stuff injected with hormones!!

That reminds me of an old saying: A fool and his money are soon parted.

For celebrities and other high earners, maybe, but a bit of web surfing and a few used books for us DIY'ers. Picked up my used bench and weights off c/l; muay thai bag and gear wholesale from manufacturer.

The doctor and the nutritionist will likely be lard-asses, don't waste your money. If you can afford a trainer, you can afford to go to a Crossfit "box" (gym). You'll get individualized instruction there, and you'll learn functional fitness that no anabolic injecting "personal trainer" type even understands.

Or, you can just do like I do, and work out in your garage. A squat rack/cage (CL), a quality bushing type olympic barbell and bumpers (about $6-700 or so), a #14 med ball, a glute-ham developer, a jump rope, and a Concept II rower will take you a lot farther than most will ever get.

As for books, Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe is a must read. ON diet anything by Barry Sears is a good start.

I agree with those who said 10 lbs / month is ambitious, especially at the later stages. I would focus on fitness and diet and let the weight take care of itself as you build muscle. You should definitely get guidance from your doc about how hard to push your heart. There's a time for intensity, but you'll need to lay in the foundations first. There's no substitute for time spent in the gym and walking. I hate to say it but an hour a day would not be unrealistic if you can do that given other obligations. But be sure your heart's OK first.

10 lbs a month is easily accomplished as long as you stay determined and disciplined.
I am a "crossfitter" however I would not reccommend this to someone who has not trained enough before hand, injuries are common and can easily ruin a hunting season.

Consider that if you are gaining strength at the same time you are losing weight, you are losing fat and gaining muscle. In other words, if you are losing 10 lbs of body weight/month, it is important to note that you are gaining lean muscle mass as well, so you may be losing 15 lbs of fat(F) and gaining 5 in lean mass(LM)
Keep your workouts simple but high intensity and low rest frequency. Focus on movements like:
Squats
Leg Press/Deadlifts
Bench Press
Pull downs or chin ups
Rows

these are the meat and potatoes of strength and fitness if you aren't in to olympic style lifting.
I would suggest no more than 3 days/week of weight training, with cardio training on seperate days.

set some small goals for yourself and reward yourself when you hit them.
You dont need to hire anyone, you have it in yourself to change. Good on you for taking the first step. As cheesy as it sounds, take some before pics now. Men are visual learners (why do you think we always want pics with the stories on here) seeing your progress will help spur you on.
Best of Luck

Calcoyote,

I have a couple questions. You are in your mid-40s from later posts right? And exactly what is your height and weight? What is your level of activity and your background on working out?

As far as weight loss goes you can lose weight either lifting or running or cardio or whatever. Diet is 90% of it, don't let anyone fool you into thinking otherwise. Another thing to keep in mind is that what type of lifting you do matters AND that as long as you have a good bit of extra weight in the form of fat your body is going to add muscle pretty easily unless you are running a pretty steep calorie deficit. You may want to add a bit of muscle but as far as weight goes it still counts.

10 pounds per month is a pretty steep calorie deficit btw.

Of course you may be a hard gainer who doesn't put on muscle easily. Thing is that running a steep calorie deficit along with a large increase in training intensity in high impact activities is a very good way to get injured. For instance going from where you are to running 20+ miles a week, or lots of heavy weights in multi-joint movements, etc in a few months is not a good idea.

I lost 50+ pounds over a two year period (I ballooned up on too much heavy resistance training and too little cardio over a few year period) and know a few of the pitfalls. The key is to stay on course diet wise, get plenty of sleep, and slowly push your fitness activities forward. Get a routine you are comfortable with and slowly and methodically ramp up intensity and time.

As far as programs go I went with the Men's Health Abs Diet, which is really not a diet at all. It is eating sensibly for life not something to drop 20 pounds in a month or two. I ran 3 times a week going from a light jog for 20 minutes up to some pretty aggressive hill training (treadmill) & trail running a couple years later with a couple resistance training sessions a week thrown in for good luck. The resistance training was all circuit/superset type stuff.

Good luck,
Will

You lost 4.0 lbs per week since you started. Now you want to maintain a 2.5 lb. loss per week for five months.

All while increasing your strength training. And while not incurring any othopaedic injury. At age 48.

IMO, you should be thinking about 2013 for reaching your goal. You may just cripple yourself up good at this rate.

I agree.

THE biggest key to long term development is consistency. Consistency in diet and consistency in workouts. Injuries can put an end to progress in a second. Stay cautious, stay on track, and stay active. And always remember that diet is the one variable that you are in complete control of. You may have good days and bad days in the gym but you and you alone are the one who controls your diet.

As an aside here is a piece of advice that may or may not start a [bleep] storm: Ignore anyone who advises you to start some very aggressive exercise program which involves lots of heavy lifting or gobs of high impact sprints or runs.

The people who advise this are fools and will get you injured and on the sidelines. These internet experts have sabotaged more beginning workout plans than all the idiotic fitness bloggers and marathon training plans written for 23 year olds ever have. IMvHO that is. Take it for what it's worth.

Will

I checked my BMI about 15 months ago and was shocked at being overweight. Always thought due to my height that I was average weight.

http://www.halls.md/ideal-weight/body.htm

I think these calculators give you a good idea of where you should be at. I cut out pasta, bread, ice cream and cheese, started running and lifting more and lost 24 pounds in last year. I am in my mid 40s as well. Goal is to be in good enough shape for another bighorn hunt one of these years.

Glad you are after it. I constantly remind myself that it took me years to get that far out of shape and to be patient with my training. I am back to 5.5 mile runs on weekends and feeling pretty good these days. You can do it but be patient.

"The greatest mathematical risk with these movements (Crossfit) is in not doing them."

Gregg Glassman

I suppose he should just run right? The American College of Surgeons states that over %80 of runners sustain a running related injury every year, that really sounds like a good plan, doesn't it?

Thanks for that link. Says I need to lose 17 pounds which is surprisingly near my preconceived target.

Since I last was able to exercise much I developed plantar fascia problems, bursitis in my achilles tendon, and buggered up my back something fierce.

Getting old sucks.

Running injuries occur because those that take up running push too hard and too fast. Again, the ligaments and tendions don't get stronger nearly as fast as the muscles. That and the fact that running puts 30 times the strain on the legs and hips that walking does.
The other thing is that loosing weight in the conventional manner of dieting involves going into starvation posture. Which means one consumes less in calores than the body consumes. In order to do this all calores consumed are burned, including the proteins needed to build new muscle tissue. In fact, those that loose more than 2 pounds a month are also consuming muscle tissue as well as fat. That's why no program, unless it's trying to sell it's diet products, recommends dieting when trying to improve one's condition. E

You've got it backwards E, most runners get injured due to too much volume/not enough recovery. Daily runs, like daily bench presses, aren't too smart. Also, running in cushy running shoes, on pavement, with poor form, will injure most anyone. Unfortunately that is exactly how most people run.

I doubt it's "running" that injures folks. Shuffling/jogging and striking hard with the heel ain't "running". Running means getting out over your toes and making headway. The metabolic demands required by running limit any potential for skeletal injury, at least for this guy.

I only see one runner in my neighborhood who actually "runs".

She's late 20's, with long legs and low body weight. She's fast and touches the ground like a cat.

Everybody else around here looks like they're hurting. Even the high schoolers.

Tell you one thing, if we start talking about the merits of running shoes and the causes of running injuries I'm not sure Rick has enough memory to hash that one out. :p

This is one of the reasons I didn't make any recommendation for this fellow to run. Choose a few exercises regimens, (elliptical, treadmill, resistance, stairmaster, bike, jogging, whatever) and burn some calories. Work hard but under control. Changes your blood chemistry. Build up some insulin sensitivity. Get into shape.

But that isn't going to make you lose the kind of weight that this man wants to shed. 90% of what he wants to lose will be lost in the kitchen. What he uncovers once the weight is shed will depend on genetics and what he has been up to in the gym. And of course his ability to do high output exercise will increase dramatically once he is losing the weight... but don't rush it, demons live there.

My own opinion on foot strike, shoe type, etc versus injury has been molded a lot by a couple guys who have really studied it and my own experience. As a pretty large guy for a runner, someone who midfoot strikes, and my propensity for running trails... well I feel better and have a more natural stride with a moderately cushioned shoe with 6 to 8mm of drop from heel to toe. Seeing that I have a size 12 EEE foot you can guess that it has been really tough getting a shoe that works for me. That is changing though, a lot of good options coming online for me now.

Will

Will,

Can you post links to online sources of big wide shoes?

I too am blessed with dainty little feet like yours.

John

I order from: http://www.runningwarehouse.com/

If you have a pair of shoes that fit well they have this nifty little shoe comparator that will show you how another shoe compares roomwise and recommend the best compromise in that shoe. It worked really well for me. They also have a function to search on size, width, heel/toe drop, etc.

Shoes that fit my needs are pretty rare but I have a couple that have worked well. Believe it or not the LaSportiva Crosslite in size 47.5 fits really well even though it is supposed to be a thinner shoe. The Asics 33 Series in 12.5 does alright though it is a tad tight and a tad long. I don't like the fit enough to keep them though, the drop on them feels less than the advertized 10mm though... probably buy a set of Saucony Triumph in the spring. And I'll have to go over on length to get the width I need but the heel/toe drop is about right. They feel good when I tried them on but I haven't bought them yet.

Will

On this we agree. New Balance's Minimus line of shoes has a heel 4mm higher than the forefoot. Cautious use is advised for anyone who already runs any real mileage, as transitioning to these shoes will trash your achilles quickly. I'm using the MX20 and the MT20 currently, I can't run more than three miles without a dull ache in my lower calf/ achilles tendon. More stretching is needed. The New Balance shoes are all available in a wide now. They also have a minimus road shoe and they are coming out with "transition" shoe with a bit more padding that is basically their redesigned racing flat.

I am of the opinion that learning to run on the mid or preferably forefoot will strengthen the lower leg markedly, enabling one to use lighter footgear in the mountains without injury

http://www.webmd.com/diet/calc-bmi-plus - better website/BMI calculator

Frankly, TAK, if "pushing too hard and too fast" isn't the same as "too much volume..." then what is it ?
I do agree that bad form or poorly designed shoes do make it worse. E

If one's bone structure is outside the norm or one has a better than average muscular build, the BMI is not a good metric for healthy weight. For this case, it's better to use several body girth measurements. Some calculators use skinfold, but I think girth is much easier and more practical to use.

Here are some formulas which I no longer have the source for, but they are pretty accurate. For those of you who have a good idea what your body composition is, plug in the numbers and turn the crank. The results should be pretty close.

Percent Body Fat Formulas (Based on Girth Measurements)

Men over 30: % Body Fat = Waist + 0.5 x Hips - 2.7 x Forearm - Wrist
Men under 30: % Body Fat = Waist + 0.5 x Hips - 3.0 x Forearm - Wrist

Women over 30: % Body Fat = Hips + Thigh - 2.0 x Calf - Wrist
Women under 30: % Body Fat = Hips + 0.8 x Thigh - 2.0 x Calf - Wrist

Three or four 400m or 800m repeats done a couple of times each week will produce a more fit person than running 3 or four miles a day, do the math.

1) Get the form right

2) Get fast (an 800m pace is a lot less apt to injure you than a sprint)

3) Add distance if that is a training goal, and for a mountain hunter it probably should be leading up to the hunting season.

Oh, boy. That's way too complicated for me.
What I've found works best for me is hiking in and out of my local canyons every other day or at least three times a week. E